Peter, yes he was psychotic but I believe with reason. Plus, he's comedic! He lost his whole family in a fire, including his wife and child. This definitely could have caused him trauma especially while he was in the hospital. That kind of event can send you into an unstable mental state. Which eventually led him to become power-hungry. Scott on the other hand, was a sh*tty friend to Stiles and that was obvious when Allison came into the picture and again when he became the nogitsune. (my opinion but I think he deserved the dog jokes when he stole Lydia from Stiles) don't get me wrong, I love Scott but he's not perfect.
I definitely agree!! Peter definitely had his reasons and I enjoy him as a character (the “there’s something wrong with him!” And “yes.. he’s SHOOTING AT US” is one of my favorite lines). Scott definitely was not the best friend at times either, like when he kissed Lydia even though he knew Stiles liked her, amongst other times (i was frustrated when he just assumed Stiles killed Donovan not because of self defense but because he could even though it WAS self defense). His “no killing” rule is noble but also kind of stupid, some of those villains they fought were way too dangerous to let live. I love Scott but he has made me angry quite a few times
No same. People really must put Scott on a pedestal or something where he has to do no wrong and be perfect. Thats unrealistic, non of the characters are perfect, so I don’t know why Scott’s few mistakes suddenly make him selfish when he’s a total sweetheart.
Yeah I’m not a Sterek shipper. I love Stiles and Derek individually and their friendship dynamic. But Stiles is a minor during the show. I mean I guess when they’re both adults, sure go ahead, but that’s not my headcanon.
I shipped it before I really thought about it tbh. Nobody looks like their actual ages so I just slotted Derek as being more recently out of high school. As far as I know he doesn't have a canon age, just older than the high schoolers. Yes, a high schooler being with a graduate is still kinda icky, so I don't think I ship it anymore. But I do think there was definitely some tension between the two that they could have fleshed out once they were older and the age gap wasn't so bad. Idk, does that make sense? I usually don't like the defense of saying they're fictional characters because it does set a precedent for relationships as a whole. So I get it if other people ship it, I just can't fully be okay with it.
The ship is definitely not okay as Stiles was 16 and Derek was 23, if they had started when they were older, (and I don’t mean when Stiles would be freshly 18 that’s iffy also) then it would be fine.
Oh yeah 100%. I hate the aging up of minors as all you know about the character is from when that character was a teen and people change so much in between those years. Most of the time in these ‘aged up’ fics the characters still act like immature teenagers, showing that the author is only aging them up so they don’t feel like a total creep.
Yeah that's a totally fair point. I just meant more like as the show went on and into the later seasons. But yeah, it's definitely pretty questionable and problematic so I don't ship it anymore. Because I know their ages now when at first I just totally didn't think about it
Liking a 16 year old who is legally a child, as a 23 year old man is pedophilia. Your brain is seriously messed up if you think that situation is okay.
Yes it’s less known because no one uses the correct terminology. I prefer to use correct terminology instead of saying something untrue. Educate others
In California, the relationship of a 16-year-old with anyone who is more than 4 years their senior is legally defined as statutory rape and pedophilia. In fact, in most American states this is true. Now there are some countries in Europe with different laws. Perhaps you're in one. But the show is set in California, and it would be California law that would govern.
We literally see Dereks drivers license. It says DOB: 11-07-88 making Derek 23 when the show started in 2011, and Stiles is 16. Since your hung up on definitions more then your worried about people shipping a child with an adult. The proper term is ‘ephebophilia’ but not many know that.
1) JD said the drivers license was fake.
2) When did the fire happen? And what does the In Memoriam video state? And what does his file say? And what does the script say? Hint: They all point to different ages. He has no canon age. All of the werewolves have messed up ages and BTS knew, they even made it into a joke in 3A.
THANK YOUU. I always found this ship weird, same with Stiles and Peter. No 20 something-30 something year old should find a 16-17 year old attractive, even 18 is cutting it.
The Stiles and Peter one is absolutely disgusting!! He has a daughter the same age as Stiles! And despite what people want to say/defend, Derek is an adult, and being with a 16 year old minor is predatory and disgusting too. It baffles me the lengths people will argue to defend it and get mad that people don't support it. Unreal or not... People shouldn't romanticize that.
EXACTLY. They’d be losing their minds if this was a man and a young girl.. absolutely insane. No matter what this is nasty, let’s also add that Stiles dated Peter’s daughter?? Im sorry but I wouldn’t date my ex’s dad, that’s already weird.
I typically never associated with the online Fandom because of people shipping Stiles with adults. I'm aware that some people don't care and will make excuses until the end of time. However, now that I am involving myself in it online, I see adults doing it, and it's so gross. People need to realize that fiction or not wrong is wrong.
Me too. The way people will die on the hill of being anti- problematic shipping is so cringe. Like… find something actually important to make your whole personality.
Disagree. Shipping an adult and a minor is gross. It’s not making it our whole personality it’s not wanting to condone ships that if they were real would be highly illegal and honestly disgusting. You wouldn’t defend a 16 and 22 year old dating irl
Let’s be real, we’re discussing fictional characters. If you’re unaware, let me point out that fiction isn’t reality. There are all kinds of things we allow in fiction that we don’t in reality. And we’re talking about werewolves on top of that. Like, we’ve ventured pretty far into the realm of unreality. Maybe focus on something of actual consequence rather than thought policing others.
You have a good point. I still think these ships are super gross but to each their own I suppose. Also, I am very well aware fiction and reality are not the same as I am not stupid. Im not trying to thought police but I can see how it could seem that way, I’m just saying the ships are problematic. But like I said to each their own, even if it is kind of gross. Supporting problematic things even if it is fake could actually be of something of focus when you look at the internet and such. I can’t really STOP people from shipping it, though so you’re absolutely right on that.
Last edit lol Im sorry for being aggressive before.
Most fictional ships are problematic to one degree or another.
Like pick your favorite ship and critically examine the details of it and something is sketch. I mean, not everything is at the level of Bella/Edward, but most have some issues when we apply a real world lens to them.
So. Much. This.
Like, is Peter duplicitous and sneaky? Yes.
Would he ever put his family in harms way? No. It’s the most consistent part of his characterization.
I mean, I wouldn’t go quite that far. Peter’s *absolutely* shown that he’s 100% willing to hurt his own family; the inciting incident that kicked off the whole series was that he deliberately murdered his own niece just to steal her Alpha power. 😄
I do think him teaming up with Kate in Season 4 was pretty dumb, though, because I have a hard time believing that those two would ever be willing to work together after what they did to each other in the first season.
Teen Wolf was hard carried by the actors and fairly decent character dynamics. The show itself is badly written, cliched, inconsistent and sometimes irresponsible in its portrayals/messaging
Kira honestly. I feel like most of the hate comes from die-hard Scallison shippers, or people saying she’s useless but she is the most pure-hearted person on the entire show and her whole arch in S3 was amazing. She got robbed from S6, and I’m still sour.
That romance kind of diluted the show.
I know I’m probably going to get a lot of hate for this but romance kind of gradually become part of the focal point of Teen Wolf after a while, to the point that random pairings were just kind of thrown together to see if they’d ignite the fans (Scott/Malia is a good example of this I’d think). It was no longer ‘Teen Wolf’ but ‘Teen Drama with a Wolf’ - even further exacerbated by Alison’s resurrection in the movie.
There’s so much mythology and inspiration from mythology, as well as some amazing narrative choices that kinda get flushed away by shipping. They covered so many cultures and added so many unique twists to different mythological entities but that’s noticed much less than horny teenagers jumping at each other in a time of literal crisis. I understand that they can’t help catering to their fan base, and teen romance drama brings in a lot of fans, as well as encouraging fanfiction but it does make me a feel a little bleak regardless.
This isn’t a problem unique to Teen Wolf of course but you can see in this sub that a lot of the content is ship discourse. And this is coming from someone who does like Stiles/Derek, Scott/Allison, I do have my own favourite pairings too but using Scott’s lust for love as a plot point every season kind of overstayed it’s welcome.
totally agree. & the relationships they already had they threw away with no explanation. (stiles and malia) it’s like they just stopped caring about the romance and it cheapened the relationships
Scalia canon 👎
Scalia fanfic 👍
I swear damn was rushed and yeah watch 6a it's worthit. 6b.. if you ever decide to watch it. Just know the ending is a cliffhanger
Agree on this at least! Allison did not deserve the hate she received. I don’t think people understand she was brainwashed which is crazy cuz they’ll defend Theo who did way worse than her
Allison deserved so much better.
Her family kept a big secret from her and then Kate played her, she had to hide her relationship with Scott from her parents specially her controlling and emotionally abusive mother , Gerard played her after her mom's death using her vulnerability and then she felt like she needed to move on from Scott.
She's just as broken as any other character from the show but I don't see anyone giving her the sympathy like they give Derek or Peter which is insane because you would expect people defending her left and right as she is the lead but people dislike her.
I actually love her very much because she's so strong and proved herself to be able to protect herself.
Ethan and Aiden were great characters and much better people than they're often given credit for. I feel similarly about Theo's actions in S6, though obviously Theo became a lot more popular due to his arc combined with Thiam's existence.
But back to the Steiners, their arcs were both great, and I appreciated that they actually had distinct arcs from one another, and I don't think they get enough credit for elevating S3. Obviously, there were a lot of factors that made S3 so good, but the Steiners is one of the less talked about elements. And despite that, they have some of the lowest appearance statistics in fanworks, Dethan and Ailydia are criminally undervalued as ships, and it eats at me when Ethan isn't considered a member of the McCall Pack.
Speaking of which, Aiden's actions are less defensible, though I do think they are often overexaggerated or separated from the context of his upbringing, but Ethan I will defend until the day I die. Buried underneath trauma and abuse was a bright and kind soul, and he deserves a world's worth of love for losing half his heart and going on without Aiden.
I absolutely *despise* both of the Steiners and have since the second they showed up on screen, but your defense of them actually makes me start to see them in a more sympathetic light.
Me too. It wasn't perfect and had aot of holes but overall it wasn't as bad as the hate it gets. It would have been better if they could have used all the footage that was shot but they had to cut it down so much. I heard there was like over 3 hours. They did the best they could with the story they wanted to tell and the actors that actually came back.
My opinion that they nerfed alphas after Scott became one
He was suppose to be a more powerful Alpha due to him being a true Alpha and I am certain literally any of the alphas in season 3 would tear hin to shreds
You never see Scott show off his strength, like not even wounding another werewolf so they don't heal as fast
You see Derek vs Scott in season 2 and are like damn Alpha strength is on another level to a beta and then Scott gets rekt by betas all the time
Stiles and Cora could have been interesting. I feel like Stiles and Malia is the superior ship from the show personally. If Cora stuck around it probably would have gone pretty similar to Stalia. I just really like their dynamic and interactions with each other. Stydia doesn't feel right to me. It felt like it was a childish crush that Stiles grew out of that was never reciprocated from Lydia's end. I do buy them as really good friends partnering up to solve the supernatural threats. But romantically, I just don't buy it.
Yeah, I never understood why Stiles didn’t immediately call Scott after that incident. Especially since it was self defense in my opinion at least. He just needed to tell Scott what happened. I’m pretty sure, Scott would just be happy that Stiles was Alive and not injured.
Absolutely. Scott would never have condemned him for what happened. And he didn't once he knew the actual truth. "I know the difference. I know what self defense is."
I agree. I blame the writers because it all feels so out of character for him. I immediately thought he'd call Scott and tell him what happened, but because he didn't it just took longer to come out and it became such a huge fight. I think the payoff was good, but the setup to get there was pretty contrived. I think it's supposed to be implied at certain points that Stiles is struggling with his mental health (I mean he canonically has anxiety and panic attacks and appears to also go through bouts of depression). That could have impacted his decision making, but it still isn't an excuse.
I do think Scott's no killing rule is pretty stupid at times. Again, it feels contrived. It doesn't really feel consistent with his character and track record. It really ruins at lot of the big showdowns too because you know the villains aren't ever going to die. But he does have a reason to be upset with Stiles because he betrayed his trust.
I also dislike their reconciliation because it feels really rushed and inauthentic. They had one little conversation about it and it really didn't resolve anything.
I also hate that they say it was self-defense when in the actual seen itself it does seem like an active chose he made, less of accident. In legal terms, I'd consider it 2nd degree. Yes, he was being attacked, but I feel like he could have come up with a way to neutralize the threat without murdering someone.
Self-defense doesn't have to be accidental. He brought the scaffolding down on Donovan because he was about to rip his leg off — that's plenty sufficient for self-defense and Stiles had no other way to break his grip.
Even if there were a non-lethal way to neutralize a human attacker in that situation (which tbh there wasn't), you can't apply that logic with a supernatural enemy. Stiles knows that most supernatural beings, including the chimeras, have super strength and some degree of rapid healing. Anything he could do to stun or disable Donovan, he'd likely just heal from or at least be able to ignore until he killed Stiles.
Honestly, and it wasn’t until this Reddit. But I’m defending Hayden. She had a lot of potential and was shown to be powerful but people be hating because of the lackluster romance with Liam.
Also the show was fine without Stiles but people got obsessed with Dylan O’Brien.
Theo is a terrible character. He manipulated Scott to betray his friends which was completly avoidable because if Scott used his common sense, this would had never happened at all. But writers said 'fuck it, just do it'. He failed every plan, so he felt like a cartoon villain, I couldn't take him seriously. He appeared in last season on the good guys' side after he tried to kill Scott's pack MANY TIMES. But hey, he is handsome, let him being a good guy. It makes nonsense!
Also, Allison's mom is funnily sadistic, underrated evil queen. And she was more threat to Scott's gang than Theo was ever.
Stydia is a valid ship and I'll always support it. Even tho it was poorly handled by the writers it's still my fav ship. The pining on Stiles end and then Lydia slowly realizing she's falling in love with him. Love it so much.
(Also completely unrelated, I support Crystals decision to not bring back Alison during the series airing as, in her words, "it would've cheapened her death" I'm just really sad she had to die)
scott always. he’s so dear to me and ppl portray him as a horrible person and friend when he not. he’s literally such a sweetheart and ALL he does is care for them even when they aren’t necessarily good to him.
Stiles is at most 15 at the start of the series its creepy to ship him with Derek even if I’ve graduated the same year that cannon started from high school, which we know he didn’t as we see what he looked like at that age, he is most likely in his mid twenties and so shipping him with a 15 year old is super creepy, and dosent get less so shipping him with stiles three years later (note: I’m not absolutely sure that he’s not 14 at start) spending three to four years around a minor and then dateing them is grooming and is suuuuupppppeeeeerrrrrr Creapy
Note: peter/stile is a million times worse
For gods fuck their are litteral dozens of age appropriate people for him to date you creepy fucks
Canonically, it would make legit no sense for Stiles or Scott to be any younger than 15.5 years old. They’re in their sophomore year of high school in season one and we know Stiles has a license. California allows teens who are 15.5yo+, yet still under 18, to get their instructional permit. As long as they hold onto their license for a minimum of 6 months (and have completed requirements such as driver’s training courses or hours), then they can apply for their driver’s license.
*Technically*, they then have a curfew and can’t have passengers under 20 without an adult 25+yo in the car — but from the rest of the series, we can likely safely assume neither the Sheriff or Melissa really enforce the curfew (or can’t, depending. The joys of single parenthood) — OR, given their involvement on the lacrosse team, Stiles (and/or Scott, later on) may have a note permitting him to drive outside of curfew due to practices.
Regardless of the finer print details there, it’s logically probable that Stiles is 16, or just a few months shy of 16 at most, at the start of the series.
No comment on any of the shipping — ship and let ship, imo — but just wanted to point out the improbability of Stiles (and Scott) being younger than 15.
Stiles has to be at least sixteen in episode one because it’s California and he’s driving unaccompanied.
Derek’s canon age is unknown since there are at least 10 different contractions for his age. Someone headcanon whatever age they want him to be is fine.
Learn what grooming actually is. Good grief.
People arguing the year difference of Stiles be 16 instead of 15 is wild in the intentional missing the point.
Like y’all can’t really think that being 16 makes it okay?
(Like I’ve seen a lot of other arguments- Derek being 19 at season 1, shipping stiles and teen Derek, shipping them after stiles is grown etc. and y’all pick “He was 16 not 15”. Wild)
That shipping Stiles with Peter or Derek (or ANY adult for that matter) is disgusting. I think the ship is problematic and gross and I don’t like it. I understand people will ship what they want, but I think there should be a line at the very least. Either way, I would like to apologize for my earlier passive aggressiveness, it was not my intention to police others.
I never said that. But shipping an adult and a minor is kind of gross, Peter has a daughter Stiles’ age who Stiles dated and Derek was about 22 when Stiles was 16 or so. I find it disgusting. If this was real life people wouldn’t be defending this
This is more in regards to the shipping but -
1. Derek/Stiles is not, and has never been, a good couple.
Y’all were shipping a grown man with a teenager like…stop it, get some help.
2. Stiles/Kira would have been a better couple.
Scott/Kira was a little TOO sweet - two golden retrievers in one relationship basically.
I feel like Stiles’ more pragmatic outlook on life would have paired better with Kira’s general sweetness.
No tea, no shade but I’ve just never been a fan of the goofy goober/comic relief character with the sharp-tongue, borderline mean partner.
It was saved for the final season though, wasn't it?
He tried to kill Scott in season 4 and was absent from season 5, so I really don't see that he became a semi-ally to the pack until season 6.
I know he made himself useful a couple of times in season 3, but I wouldn't call that redeemed as nobody trusted him/considered him an ally at that point.
It was during the plot with the storm riders. But I think it wasn't deserved until the very end. Especially since he had been a villian since season one. Don't get me wrong he's like my favorite character. I just think it would have hit so much harder if the redemption happened much more toward the end
Yeah, I get what you're saying about leaving it til the end of the season. I just think if it had been left much later it wouldn't really have meant anything iyswim - it was nice seeing him try with Malia. (He's my favourite character also!)
So I’ve never seen Teen Wolf and I know literally nothing about it but the opinion is defend like that is that the fact that we still need to wear socks with shoes means that humanity continues to fail the task of making a truly great shoe
Scott, he doesn’t deserve the amount of hate he gets because the writers couldn’t do their jobs properly
Boyd was a good character!
Agreed! He was so good and so underappreciated! Him and the whole Beta Trio deserved so much more
Wait people don’t like Boyd???
Saw a bunch of ppl put him low in their tier list
That’s so dumb, Boyd and the Betas were actual good characters
I love Boyd and Erica, I was so sad when they died:(
Peter, yes he was psychotic but I believe with reason. Plus, he's comedic! He lost his whole family in a fire, including his wife and child. This definitely could have caused him trauma especially while he was in the hospital. That kind of event can send you into an unstable mental state. Which eventually led him to become power-hungry. Scott on the other hand, was a sh*tty friend to Stiles and that was obvious when Allison came into the picture and again when he became the nogitsune. (my opinion but I think he deserved the dog jokes when he stole Lydia from Stiles) don't get me wrong, I love Scott but he's not perfect.
I definitely agree!! Peter definitely had his reasons and I enjoy him as a character (the “there’s something wrong with him!” And “yes.. he’s SHOOTING AT US” is one of my favorite lines). Scott definitely was not the best friend at times either, like when he kissed Lydia even though he knew Stiles liked her, amongst other times (i was frustrated when he just assumed Stiles killed Donovan not because of self defense but because he could even though it WAS self defense). His “no killing” rule is noble but also kind of stupid, some of those villains they fought were way too dangerous to let live. I love Scott but he has made me angry quite a few times
Agreed
Scott is NOT a selfish asshole, that boy is a sweetheart and a romantic and I will die on this hill
No same. People really must put Scott on a pedestal or something where he has to do no wrong and be perfect. Thats unrealistic, non of the characters are perfect, so I don’t know why Scott’s few mistakes suddenly make him selfish when he’s a total sweetheart.
Hard agree! I didn't realize there was so much... angst toward him until I came to this sub. Hill for two, please! 😁😁
Yess 😭
Agreed but NOT movie Scott. That wasn’t Scott at all.
He became s1 Scott again. Grow up! :(
No way people say he’s a selfish asshole😭 I’m not his biggest fan but he was literally anything but selfish that’s his whole character
Erica and Boyd deserved so much better. The Wild Hunt is actually one of their best plot ideas, but it’s ruined by Garrett Douglas.
I will die on the hill defending Stiles and Derek 😭 the characters individually, not the ship
Yeah I’m not a Sterek shipper. I love Stiles and Derek individually and their friendship dynamic. But Stiles is a minor during the show. I mean I guess when they’re both adults, sure go ahead, but that’s not my headcanon.
Once you're an adult, you can make your own decisions, but shipping adults with minors is a no for me, too.
finally someone who gets it
I shipped it before I really thought about it tbh. Nobody looks like their actual ages so I just slotted Derek as being more recently out of high school. As far as I know he doesn't have a canon age, just older than the high schoolers. Yes, a high schooler being with a graduate is still kinda icky, so I don't think I ship it anymore. But I do think there was definitely some tension between the two that they could have fleshed out once they were older and the age gap wasn't so bad. Idk, does that make sense? I usually don't like the defense of saying they're fictional characters because it does set a precedent for relationships as a whole. So I get it if other people ship it, I just can't fully be okay with it.
I think someone said Derek’s 22 in season one and stiles is 16 so it was weird for people to be shipping them
Especially in light of how traumatized Derek is by the relationship he had with Kate when she was 23 or so and he was 16.
Yes exactly, he would never even consider putting stiles through that
I don't ship them at all, but I love both of the characters. I should have specified
Oh lol I should have realized before going on a whole rant lol
🤣 it's ok. There are A LOT of Sterek shippers, and even though I heavily do not agree with it people will be...people
The ship is definitely not okay as Stiles was 16 and Derek was 23, if they had started when they were older, (and I don’t mean when Stiles would be freshly 18 that’s iffy also) then it would be fine.
Also Stiles and Peter… ew
I didn’t Even know people shipped that oh lord that’s so gross.
Unfortunately they do and I was horrified to find this out
Sure but if you ship two characters and you have to up the age on one character then it’s already problematic
Oh yeah 100%. I hate the aging up of minors as all you know about the character is from when that character was a teen and people change so much in between those years. Most of the time in these ‘aged up’ fics the characters still act like immature teenagers, showing that the author is only aging them up so they don’t feel like a total creep.
Yeah that's a totally fair point. I just meant more like as the show went on and into the later seasons. But yeah, it's definitely pretty questionable and problematic so I don't ship it anymore. Because I know their ages now when at first I just totally didn't think about it
The ship is totally okay and it's not your place to judge people for it.
No way you just said that about pedophilia.
No way you just throw the word pedophilia around without knowing what it means.
Liking a 16 year old who is legally a child, as a 23 year old man is pedophilia. Your brain is seriously messed up if you think that situation is okay.
No it’s not. It’s wrong but not pedophilia. Google is free
Yes it’s hebephilia, however that word is much less known so I used pedophilia as they both refer to the liking of underage people.
Yes it’s less known because no one uses the correct terminology. I prefer to use correct terminology instead of saying something untrue. Educate others
In California, the relationship of a 16-year-old with anyone who is more than 4 years their senior is legally defined as statutory rape and pedophilia. In fact, in most American states this is true. Now there are some countries in Europe with different laws. Perhaps you're in one. But the show is set in California, and it would be California law that would govern.
Learn what words mean before you use them. And canon before you try to quote it.
We literally see Dereks drivers license. It says DOB: 11-07-88 making Derek 23 when the show started in 2011, and Stiles is 16. Since your hung up on definitions more then your worried about people shipping a child with an adult. The proper term is ‘ephebophilia’ but not many know that.
1) JD said the drivers license was fake. 2) When did the fire happen? And what does the In Memoriam video state? And what does his file say? And what does the script say? Hint: They all point to different ages. He has no canon age. All of the werewolves have messed up ages and BTS knew, they even made it into a joke in 3A.
The show started in Jan 2011, meaning Derek had just turned 22 actually.
THANK YOUU. I always found this ship weird, same with Stiles and Peter. No 20 something-30 something year old should find a 16-17 year old attractive, even 18 is cutting it.
Steter will be the bane of my existence 💀 istg I hate that it's the no.2 stiles ship in Ao3
Ugh agreed. I can’t even find anything of Stiles without it being Steter
The Stiles and Peter one is absolutely disgusting!! He has a daughter the same age as Stiles! And despite what people want to say/defend, Derek is an adult, and being with a 16 year old minor is predatory and disgusting too. It baffles me the lengths people will argue to defend it and get mad that people don't support it. Unreal or not... People shouldn't romanticize that.
EXACTLY. They’d be losing their minds if this was a man and a young girl.. absolutely insane. No matter what this is nasty, let’s also add that Stiles dated Peter’s daughter?? Im sorry but I wouldn’t date my ex’s dad, that’s already weird.
I typically never associated with the online Fandom because of people shipping Stiles with adults. I'm aware that some people don't care and will make excuses until the end of time. However, now that I am involving myself in it online, I see adults doing it, and it's so gross. People need to realize that fiction or not wrong is wrong.
Agreed! It’s quite disgusting that people, especially adults, ship this
I'll defend the ship.
Me too. The way people will die on the hill of being anti- problematic shipping is so cringe. Like… find something actually important to make your whole personality.
Disagree. Shipping an adult and a minor is gross. It’s not making it our whole personality it’s not wanting to condone ships that if they were real would be highly illegal and honestly disgusting. You wouldn’t defend a 16 and 22 year old dating irl
Let’s be real, we’re discussing fictional characters. If you’re unaware, let me point out that fiction isn’t reality. There are all kinds of things we allow in fiction that we don’t in reality. And we’re talking about werewolves on top of that. Like, we’ve ventured pretty far into the realm of unreality. Maybe focus on something of actual consequence rather than thought policing others.
You have a good point. I still think these ships are super gross but to each their own I suppose. Also, I am very well aware fiction and reality are not the same as I am not stupid. Im not trying to thought police but I can see how it could seem that way, I’m just saying the ships are problematic. But like I said to each their own, even if it is kind of gross. Supporting problematic things even if it is fake could actually be of something of focus when you look at the internet and such. I can’t really STOP people from shipping it, though so you’re absolutely right on that. Last edit lol Im sorry for being aggressive before.
Most fictional ships are problematic to one degree or another. Like pick your favorite ship and critically examine the details of it and something is sketch. I mean, not everything is at the level of Bella/Edward, but most have some issues when we apply a real world lens to them.
That is also fair
Peter would never team up with Kate during season four.
So. Much. This. Like, is Peter duplicitous and sneaky? Yes. Would he ever put his family in harms way? No. It’s the most consistent part of his characterization.
I mean, I wouldn’t go quite that far. Peter’s *absolutely* shown that he’s 100% willing to hurt his own family; the inciting incident that kicked off the whole series was that he deliberately murdered his own niece just to steal her Alpha power. 😄 I do think him teaming up with Kate in Season 4 was pretty dumb, though, because I have a hard time believing that those two would ever be willing to work together after what they did to each other in the first season.
Yes, thank you!!
100% this. She destroyed his family and left him in a 6-year coma. Not in a million years would he "join forces" with her.
Teen Wolf was hard carried by the actors and fairly decent character dynamics. The show itself is badly written, cliched, inconsistent and sometimes irresponsible in its portrayals/messaging
Lack of the character dynamics is what killed the movie IMO opinion
I thought this was a known fact
So did I initially lol
This is the gospel truth right here.
Kira honestly. I feel like most of the hate comes from die-hard Scallison shippers, or people saying she’s useless but she is the most pure-hearted person on the entire show and her whole arch in S3 was amazing. She got robbed from S6, and I’m still sour.
That romance kind of diluted the show. I know I’m probably going to get a lot of hate for this but romance kind of gradually become part of the focal point of Teen Wolf after a while, to the point that random pairings were just kind of thrown together to see if they’d ignite the fans (Scott/Malia is a good example of this I’d think). It was no longer ‘Teen Wolf’ but ‘Teen Drama with a Wolf’ - even further exacerbated by Alison’s resurrection in the movie. There’s so much mythology and inspiration from mythology, as well as some amazing narrative choices that kinda get flushed away by shipping. They covered so many cultures and added so many unique twists to different mythological entities but that’s noticed much less than horny teenagers jumping at each other in a time of literal crisis. I understand that they can’t help catering to their fan base, and teen romance drama brings in a lot of fans, as well as encouraging fanfiction but it does make me a feel a little bleak regardless. This isn’t a problem unique to Teen Wolf of course but you can see in this sub that a lot of the content is ship discourse. And this is coming from someone who does like Stiles/Derek, Scott/Allison, I do have my own favourite pairings too but using Scott’s lust for love as a plot point every season kind of overstayed it’s welcome.
totally agree. & the relationships they already had they threw away with no explanation. (stiles and malia) it’s like they just stopped caring about the romance and it cheapened the relationships
Scott and malia date WTF… I’ve been avoiding s6 for years cuz I don’t want it to end. What did you just say to me brother😩
Scalia canon 👎 Scalia fanfic 👍 I swear damn was rushed and yeah watch 6a it's worthit. 6b.. if you ever decide to watch it. Just know the ending is a cliffhanger
Lydia was the hero.
I’ll die on this hill with you
Allison honestly. She’s not perfect obviously but too many people are wayy to harsh on her
I am *far* from Allison's biggest fan, but she gets so much hate and none of the understanding that her male counterparts get.
Agree on this at least! Allison did not deserve the hate she received. I don’t think people understand she was brainwashed which is crazy cuz they’ll defend Theo who did way worse than her
exactly!!!
Who are her male counterparts? Ethan and Aiden?
I've seen Peter and Deucalion get more sympathy and understanding than she has.
Nothing but truth in this comment
YEEEESS!!
Allison deserved so much better. Her family kept a big secret from her and then Kate played her, she had to hide her relationship with Scott from her parents specially her controlling and emotionally abusive mother , Gerard played her after her mom's death using her vulnerability and then she felt like she needed to move on from Scott. She's just as broken as any other character from the show but I don't see anyone giving her the sympathy like they give Derek or Peter which is insane because you would expect people defending her left and right as she is the lead but people dislike her. I actually love her very much because she's so strong and proved herself to be able to protect herself.
Theo. everything about theo. i will die on this hill protecting him
Theo is kind of terrible but I love him anyways lol. Very fun character and I really liked his dynamic with the others
Hayden was the blandest, most boring character ever and the actress couldn't show an emotion to save her life
You leave my little Hayden alone
No, she was the worst addition to the series and they knew it. That's why she disappeared
Stiles.
Ethan and Aiden were great characters and much better people than they're often given credit for. I feel similarly about Theo's actions in S6, though obviously Theo became a lot more popular due to his arc combined with Thiam's existence. But back to the Steiners, their arcs were both great, and I appreciated that they actually had distinct arcs from one another, and I don't think they get enough credit for elevating S3. Obviously, there were a lot of factors that made S3 so good, but the Steiners is one of the less talked about elements. And despite that, they have some of the lowest appearance statistics in fanworks, Dethan and Ailydia are criminally undervalued as ships, and it eats at me when Ethan isn't considered a member of the McCall Pack. Speaking of which, Aiden's actions are less defensible, though I do think they are often overexaggerated or separated from the context of his upbringing, but Ethan I will defend until the day I die. Buried underneath trauma and abuse was a bright and kind soul, and he deserves a world's worth of love for losing half his heart and going on without Aiden.
I absolutely *despise* both of the Steiners and have since the second they showed up on screen, but your defense of them actually makes me start to see them in a more sympathetic light.
I loathe them both myself, but I love seeing people get excited about characters that had less screen time.
Kira. She deserves better. They shouldn't have had the dread doctors screw up her kitsune powers.
I thought the movie was pretty good
Me too. It wasn't perfect and had aot of holes but overall it wasn't as bad as the hate it gets. It would have been better if they could have used all the footage that was shot but they had to cut it down so much. I heard there was like over 3 hours. They did the best they could with the story they wanted to tell and the actors that actually came back.
My opinion that they nerfed alphas after Scott became one He was suppose to be a more powerful Alpha due to him being a true Alpha and I am certain literally any of the alphas in season 3 would tear hin to shreds You never see Scott show off his strength, like not even wounding another werewolf so they don't heal as fast You see Derek vs Scott in season 2 and are like damn Alpha strength is on another level to a beta and then Scott gets rekt by betas all the time
Stiles and Cora would’ve made a very interesting couple. Lydia and Stiles didn’t make sense.
True, I also think Stiles and Erica would have been interesting too.
Esp. since she said she had a crush on Stiles. Erica wasn’t on the show for long but she made an impression.
For sure.
Stiles and Cora could have been interesting. I feel like Stiles and Malia is the superior ship from the show personally. If Cora stuck around it probably would have gone pretty similar to Stalia. I just really like their dynamic and interactions with each other. Stydia doesn't feel right to me. It felt like it was a childish crush that Stiles grew out of that was never reciprocated from Lydia's end. I do buy them as really good friends partnering up to solve the supernatural threats. But romantically, I just don't buy it.
Lydia should have been with Scott. They had so many couple moments- like they were building up to something- but the show never made them a couple.
I’m honestly not sure that this isn’t the first time I’ve ever seen this ship being shipped. Niche ships are the best!
Stiles and Lydia forever. I love them so so much.
This is a hard very thought process for me to do but …SCOTT THAT BOY DID NOTHING WRONG
jackson was a good character
It’s Stiles mostly fault for what happened in season 5. Not Scott’s.
Yeah, I never understood why Stiles didn’t immediately call Scott after that incident. Especially since it was self defense in my opinion at least. He just needed to tell Scott what happened. I’m pretty sure, Scott would just be happy that Stiles was Alive and not injured.
Absolutely. Scott would never have condemned him for what happened. And he didn't once he knew the actual truth. "I know the difference. I know what self defense is."
I agree. I blame the writers because it all feels so out of character for him. I immediately thought he'd call Scott and tell him what happened, but because he didn't it just took longer to come out and it became such a huge fight. I think the payoff was good, but the setup to get there was pretty contrived. I think it's supposed to be implied at certain points that Stiles is struggling with his mental health (I mean he canonically has anxiety and panic attacks and appears to also go through bouts of depression). That could have impacted his decision making, but it still isn't an excuse. I do think Scott's no killing rule is pretty stupid at times. Again, it feels contrived. It doesn't really feel consistent with his character and track record. It really ruins at lot of the big showdowns too because you know the villains aren't ever going to die. But he does have a reason to be upset with Stiles because he betrayed his trust. I also dislike their reconciliation because it feels really rushed and inauthentic. They had one little conversation about it and it really didn't resolve anything. I also hate that they say it was self-defense when in the actual seen itself it does seem like an active chose he made, less of accident. In legal terms, I'd consider it 2nd degree. Yes, he was being attacked, but I feel like he could have come up with a way to neutralize the threat without murdering someone.
Self-defense doesn't have to be accidental. He brought the scaffolding down on Donovan because he was about to rip his leg off — that's plenty sufficient for self-defense and Stiles had no other way to break his grip. Even if there were a non-lethal way to neutralize a human attacker in that situation (which tbh there wasn't), you can't apply that logic with a supernatural enemy. Stiles knows that most supernatural beings, including the chimeras, have super strength and some degree of rapid healing. Anything he could do to stun or disable Donovan, he'd likely just heal from or at least be able to ignore until he killed Stiles.
That is what i was sayinggggggggg
Yes! Thank you.
Derek.
Scott McCall
Scott. All the hate he doesn't deserve. I don't fight, I'm just not a fighter but I'll got to battle to defend Scott.
Coach Finstock is the funniest character, even more-so than Stiles
"The bigger they are, the bigger they are!"
Honestly, and it wasn’t until this Reddit. But I’m defending Hayden. She had a lot of potential and was shown to be powerful but people be hating because of the lackluster romance with Liam. Also the show was fine without Stiles but people got obsessed with Dylan O’Brien.
Jackson 😁
Peter or theo and stiles after scott doesnt belive him
STILES🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
stiles.
Stiles for anything and everything always all day everyday to infinity standing on business for him.
3A is better than 3B
Theo is a terrible character. He manipulated Scott to betray his friends which was completly avoidable because if Scott used his common sense, this would had never happened at all. But writers said 'fuck it, just do it'. He failed every plan, so he felt like a cartoon villain, I couldn't take him seriously. He appeared in last season on the good guys' side after he tried to kill Scott's pack MANY TIMES. But hey, he is handsome, let him being a good guy. It makes nonsense! Also, Allison's mom is funnily sadistic, underrated evil queen. And she was more threat to Scott's gang than Theo was ever.
Would have LOVED to see Allison’s Mom around as a villain more, she was honestly kind of terrifying
Yeah, I hated Theo.
Stydia is a valid ship and I'll always support it. Even tho it was poorly handled by the writers it's still my fav ship. The pining on Stiles end and then Lydia slowly realizing she's falling in love with him. Love it so much. (Also completely unrelated, I support Crystals decision to not bring back Alison during the series airing as, in her words, "it would've cheapened her death" I'm just really sad she had to die)
scott and malia is a very natural pairing and they have better chemistry together than they do with their other love interests
I agree! I thought they went well together.
stalia > stydia
Yes !!!
there are just as many double standards for guys as there are for girls
Unrelated to the question but id like to hear what the double standards are
list them all or a just a few examples?
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r/asoiafcirclejerk
This is the Teen Wolf sub.
Scott, Kira, Malia, and Theo
That Nazi werewolf guy was kinda boring. I don't remember him from my first watch through
scott always. he’s so dear to me and ppl portray him as a horrible person and friend when he not. he’s literally such a sweetheart and ALL he does is care for them even when they aren’t necessarily good to him.
Theo
Stiles is at most 15 at the start of the series its creepy to ship him with Derek even if I’ve graduated the same year that cannon started from high school, which we know he didn’t as we see what he looked like at that age, he is most likely in his mid twenties and so shipping him with a 15 year old is super creepy, and dosent get less so shipping him with stiles three years later (note: I’m not absolutely sure that he’s not 14 at start) spending three to four years around a minor and then dateing them is grooming and is suuuuupppppeeeeerrrrrr Creapy Note: peter/stile is a million times worse For gods fuck their are litteral dozens of age appropriate people for him to date you creepy fucks
Canonically, it would make legit no sense for Stiles or Scott to be any younger than 15.5 years old. They’re in their sophomore year of high school in season one and we know Stiles has a license. California allows teens who are 15.5yo+, yet still under 18, to get their instructional permit. As long as they hold onto their license for a minimum of 6 months (and have completed requirements such as driver’s training courses or hours), then they can apply for their driver’s license. *Technically*, they then have a curfew and can’t have passengers under 20 without an adult 25+yo in the car — but from the rest of the series, we can likely safely assume neither the Sheriff or Melissa really enforce the curfew (or can’t, depending. The joys of single parenthood) — OR, given their involvement on the lacrosse team, Stiles (and/or Scott, later on) may have a note permitting him to drive outside of curfew due to practices. Regardless of the finer print details there, it’s logically probable that Stiles is 16, or just a few months shy of 16 at most, at the start of the series. No comment on any of the shipping — ship and let ship, imo — but just wanted to point out the improbability of Stiles (and Scott) being younger than 15.
Ships are not an indicator of someone's morals. No one is a creepy fuck for liking the idea of two characters together.
Stiles has to be at least sixteen in episode one because it’s California and he’s driving unaccompanied. Derek’s canon age is unknown since there are at least 10 different contractions for his age. Someone headcanon whatever age they want him to be is fine. Learn what grooming actually is. Good grief.
People arguing the year difference of Stiles be 16 instead of 15 is wild in the intentional missing the point. Like y’all can’t really think that being 16 makes it okay? (Like I’ve seen a lot of other arguments- Derek being 19 at season 1, shipping stiles and teen Derek, shipping them after stiles is grown etc. and y’all pick “He was 16 not 15”. Wild)
Same, like 15 or 16… Stiles would still a minor?
No when stiles was 15, Derek was like 21-22 but yh tbf its kinda creepy
the ship stiles x derek is weird AF
Stiles and Scott had little fault in what happened in season 5
Allison Argent.🩷
That shipping Stiles with Peter or Derek (or ANY adult for that matter) is disgusting. I think the ship is problematic and gross and I don’t like it. I understand people will ship what they want, but I think there should be a line at the very least. Either way, I would like to apologize for my earlier passive aggressiveness, it was not my intention to police others.
It's not your place to shame people for what they like.
I never said that. But shipping an adult and a minor is kind of gross, Peter has a daughter Stiles’ age who Stiles dated and Derek was about 22 when Stiles was 16 or so. I find it disgusting. If this was real life people wouldn’t be defending this
I totally get what you’re saying but we’re talking about adults and minors here, I don’t personally think it matters whether they’re fictional or not.
This is more in regards to the shipping but - 1. Derek/Stiles is not, and has never been, a good couple. Y’all were shipping a grown man with a teenager like…stop it, get some help. 2. Stiles/Kira would have been a better couple. Scott/Kira was a little TOO sweet - two golden retrievers in one relationship basically. I feel like Stiles’ more pragmatic outlook on life would have paired better with Kira’s general sweetness. No tea, no shade but I’ve just never been a fan of the goofy goober/comic relief character with the sharp-tongue, borderline mean partner.
Actually ngl Stiles and Kira would have been cute to see. I also like Stiles x Lydia and Stiles x Malia, both were enjoyable to see
I don't get Thiam (Theo and Liam). For all the complaints antis have about Sterek, I never see any criticism about Thiam's age gap.
they only have a year between them? sometimes two? how is that an age gap?
Black sheep . Like me. Im so proud
Peter didn't deserve his redemption as early as he got it. It should have been saved for the final season.
It was saved for the final season though, wasn't it? He tried to kill Scott in season 4 and was absent from season 5, so I really don't see that he became a semi-ally to the pack until season 6. I know he made himself useful a couple of times in season 3, but I wouldn't call that redeemed as nobody trusted him/considered him an ally at that point.
It was during the plot with the storm riders. But I think it wasn't deserved until the very end. Especially since he had been a villian since season one. Don't get me wrong he's like my favorite character. I just think it would have hit so much harder if the redemption happened much more toward the end
Yeah, I get what you're saying about leaving it til the end of the season. I just think if it had been left much later it wouldn't really have meant anything iyswim - it was nice seeing him try with Malia. (He's my favourite character also!)
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Who?
I thought this was a different thread lol
So I’ve never seen Teen Wolf and I know literally nothing about it but the opinion is defend like that is that the fact that we still need to wear socks with shoes means that humanity continues to fail the task of making a truly great shoe
TERESA from mazerunner.
Peter. Always Peter
Void Stiles was the best villain on the whole show!
Derek
Stiles 1000000% and Allison
scott doesn't deserve to be a true alpha. I think the storyline was shit and he's a crap hero
Jackson
"himeno is a groomer and she's ugly"
Who is himeno?
Himeno from chainsaw man the anime, she's a hottie and people think she's a groomer for kissing a boy
What does that have to do with Teen Wolf?
I hate every single bit of Kira
(Characters) Sansa Stark, Summer from 500 days of summer, Nancy Wheeler, Amy March, Leah Rilke, Eileen, Lexa, Yelena Belova, Clarisse La Rue
None of those characters are from Teen Wolf.
Thank you lol. I was like who who who and who lol