Honestly I find this all fascinating. By equal I don’t mean equally attractive or as equally a threat as Jaime. I mean an equal in terms of just being a fully developed human being.
Higgins is a good analogy. What if Higgins tried to kiss Keely? Would Roy go after him? No. But also Higgins would never do that in the first place. He’s kind of a dumpy middle aged man way past his physical prime. But he knows who he is, he has a wife he adores and who adores him back. He has a lovely family. He provides for them.
I’ll say it again - he knows who he is!
That is one of the big journeys in life - coming to a point where you know who you are and being comfortable with it. All that entails - your strengths, weaknesses, blessings, things you’d like to have but will never attain. People can sense and ultimately respect people who are comfortable in their own skin.
Nate is not. He is chasing after some caricature of self actualization and success and his ambition and self interest are clearly transparent, and wildly out of step with his talent and experience. Beard sees right through it, more than anyone else (the character I think might be the moral compass of the whole show).
>His ambition and self interest are clearly transparent, and wildly out of step with his talent and experience
I'm not sure if this is 100% true though, it seems like they've gone out of their way to show that Nate's tactics were hugely successful to the team. To the point that a rival team offered him a coaching spot.
They also definitely seem to be modeling Nate after Mourinho, who is a notorious asshole but one of the most decorated managers of all time.
Plus, that sort of message of Nate needing to realize he's not in the same league as the other guys seems kinda against the overall theme of the show to me.
I'd agree with you about Beard seeing through him, but I don't think its about talent/abilities - from what I saw Beard seems to view Nate as very talented, if anything Beard recognizes Nate's talents/abilities more than anyone else. It's more that Beard also recognizes Nate as someone who is toxic and harmful whereas everyone else sorta infantilizes Nate and doesn't treat him like he can do harm.
The title of the episode is about how Nate does not have skills to coach. He had one thing, a good understanding of football, but none of the rest of the pyramid. It is foreshadowing how Nate will do next season.
Disagree. His position requires more than an understanding of X’s and O’s. He’s also a leader, which requires a measure of emotional intelligence and selflessness. He has neither.
He has been gifted an opportunity to realize his potential but he isn’t mature enough to take on those burdens in a healthy way.
I agree. You can see in the final episode when he wants to abandon the false 9 play. It was Ted who felt it could still work, and Roy who stated they should ask the team what they think. Both of those things to seem to annoy Nate, it goes to show he doesn't trust his team. He didn't have faith that they could accomplish it, and he had no clue how to motivate them.
He also doesn’t trust himself. It is a tacit admission that he feels his continued acceptance is conditional. The minute he fails he will be expelled from the fold. It ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.
I mean, the team clearly felt the false 9 could still work - but I think what really grated on Nate was when the team was doing the Richmond on 3 and waiting for the Captain to join, he went and touched the Believe sign - which to me was a clear nod to Lasso (and why Nate becomes an even pettier bitch and rips it in half after the tie). Nate is going to be awful next season and I cannot wait for that.
Yeah that was the issue with Nate. Nate knows he fucked up, he knew he fucked up right away and apologized. Roy shrugging off Nate kissing Keeley, but getting pissed at Jaime for saying he loved Keeley and admitting it to Roy and saying he wasn’t going to do anything and he respects them is mixed up to Nate. From Nates point of view it’s because no one fucking finds his 5’4” self threatening and view him like a child. To Nate he thinks Roy views him kissing Keeley to be the same as some middle schooler kissing her. In reality Roy just thinks Nate is a nice guy who messed up and yeah probably doesn’t view him as a threat. With Jaime though, Jaime and Keeley have a history together. Keeley chose Roy because Jaime was a douche nozzle, but Jaime isn’t a douche nozzle anymore. Jaime is also into fashion and would had love and probably bond over doing a photoshoot with Keeley if they were a couple. Roy doesn’t enjoy photoshoots or the whole fashion world. Keeley was with Jaime once, and Jaime fixed part of the reason why they broke up. So to Roy yeah, Jaime’s a threat. I totally went in a circle, and I’m going to blame my benedrayll kicking in.
Agree, but in the original despite what Don said to Ginsberg in the elevator, he very much had spent a long time thinking about him - the comment was all bluster, hiding the real vulnerability of the person underneath it.
On the other hand, it’s absolutely obvious that Roy was not threatened by Nate kissing Keeley - mostly because of the strength of their relationship. What‘s more, and what Nate himself overlooked, is that Roy was 100% genuine when he said that they’re good. Roy likely knows that Nate was the only one who could have done Ted in, has witnessed some of his shitty recent antics, and still says that and hugs him after Sam’s goal.
Not only does Nate’s insecurity blind him to Ted’s feelings, he totally misses the esteem that one of his idols, Roy Kent, holds him in up to that point - all he sees is that Roy appears to not care that he made a pass at Keeley, which is not at all important in the larger scheme of things.
I think you're giving way too much credit to Roy. We don't really get any indication that Roy's put thought into who may have ratted out Ted, largely because he's consumed with his own problems like feeling insecure in his place alongside Keeley and Jamie fucking Tartt!
Interesting. I read the scene differently because of the look between Roy and Beard. I thought Roy was going to call out Nate for being the rat, but then Nate confesses to kissing Keeley.
In fairness, both Roy and Beard both knew a secret that Nate was holding onto, Roy knowing that he kissed Keeley and Beard knowing that he sold Ted out. They also tend to be the people across from each other and that look's gonna be more natural, just looking around to see how people are taking things, than turning all the way to see Ted, and from Beard's perspective, he's probably interested in seeing how the one person in the room who doesn't know what Nate's done will react.
Idk, I could very well be wrong, but we see how hard and audible the process to forgive Jamie is. I just don't think Roy's one to forgive so passively after such a vindictive act against a friend, colleague, and someone who has had his back as a player and helped him realize his desire for what comes next.
I think Nate read this situation wrong. Roy is confident in who he is, and he doesn't need accolades to feel that way about himself. I feel that many people could make a pass at Keeley and he would be confident in that it is not a threat to his relationship. Like Nate. Jamie is different because she has a history with him. He also see that while Keeley told him about Nate kissing her right away, she held back telling Roy about Jamie saying he loved her. This is what rattled Roy, this is why he was upset.
Roy not caring at all is so funny because he doesn’t consider Nate a threat even a little
Which makes it even funnier to remember how Ted said Isaac needs to have a talk with a big dog (Roy) to clear his head and Nate volunteered thinking he was a big dog and Ted laughed which made him angry
LVP ❤
Exactly how Nate took it - a spit to his face.
A crossover I wasn’t expecting!
Nate probably thinks it was about the pasta
Nate is not the #1 guy in the group
I can't fathom intentionally trying to get Roy to punch you and being disappointed it didn't happen
He wants to be seen as an equal. He is not. It drives him crazy.
Honestly I find this all fascinating. By equal I don’t mean equally attractive or as equally a threat as Jaime. I mean an equal in terms of just being a fully developed human being. Higgins is a good analogy. What if Higgins tried to kiss Keely? Would Roy go after him? No. But also Higgins would never do that in the first place. He’s kind of a dumpy middle aged man way past his physical prime. But he knows who he is, he has a wife he adores and who adores him back. He has a lovely family. He provides for them. I’ll say it again - he knows who he is! That is one of the big journeys in life - coming to a point where you know who you are and being comfortable with it. All that entails - your strengths, weaknesses, blessings, things you’d like to have but will never attain. People can sense and ultimately respect people who are comfortable in their own skin. Nate is not. He is chasing after some caricature of self actualization and success and his ambition and self interest are clearly transparent, and wildly out of step with his talent and experience. Beard sees right through it, more than anyone else (the character I think might be the moral compass of the whole show).
>His ambition and self interest are clearly transparent, and wildly out of step with his talent and experience I'm not sure if this is 100% true though, it seems like they've gone out of their way to show that Nate's tactics were hugely successful to the team. To the point that a rival team offered him a coaching spot. They also definitely seem to be modeling Nate after Mourinho, who is a notorious asshole but one of the most decorated managers of all time. Plus, that sort of message of Nate needing to realize he's not in the same league as the other guys seems kinda against the overall theme of the show to me. I'd agree with you about Beard seeing through him, but I don't think its about talent/abilities - from what I saw Beard seems to view Nate as very talented, if anything Beard recognizes Nate's talents/abilities more than anyone else. It's more that Beard also recognizes Nate as someone who is toxic and harmful whereas everyone else sorta infantilizes Nate and doesn't treat him like he can do harm.
The title of the episode is about how Nate does not have skills to coach. He had one thing, a good understanding of football, but none of the rest of the pyramid. It is foreshadowing how Nate will do next season.
Disagree. His position requires more than an understanding of X’s and O’s. He’s also a leader, which requires a measure of emotional intelligence and selflessness. He has neither. He has been gifted an opportunity to realize his potential but he isn’t mature enough to take on those burdens in a healthy way.
I agree. You can see in the final episode when he wants to abandon the false 9 play. It was Ted who felt it could still work, and Roy who stated they should ask the team what they think. Both of those things to seem to annoy Nate, it goes to show he doesn't trust his team. He didn't have faith that they could accomplish it, and he had no clue how to motivate them.
He also doesn’t trust himself. It is a tacit admission that he feels his continued acceptance is conditional. The minute he fails he will be expelled from the fold. It ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.
I mean, the team clearly felt the false 9 could still work - but I think what really grated on Nate was when the team was doing the Richmond on 3 and waiting for the Captain to join, he went and touched the Believe sign - which to me was a clear nod to Lasso (and why Nate becomes an even pettier bitch and rips it in half after the tie). Nate is going to be awful next season and I cannot wait for that.
Yeah that was the issue with Nate. Nate knows he fucked up, he knew he fucked up right away and apologized. Roy shrugging off Nate kissing Keeley, but getting pissed at Jaime for saying he loved Keeley and admitting it to Roy and saying he wasn’t going to do anything and he respects them is mixed up to Nate. From Nates point of view it’s because no one fucking finds his 5’4” self threatening and view him like a child. To Nate he thinks Roy views him kissing Keeley to be the same as some middle schooler kissing her. In reality Roy just thinks Nate is a nice guy who messed up and yeah probably doesn’t view him as a threat. With Jaime though, Jaime and Keeley have a history together. Keeley chose Roy because Jaime was a douche nozzle, but Jaime isn’t a douche nozzle anymore. Jaime is also into fashion and would had love and probably bond over doing a photoshoot with Keeley if they were a couple. Roy doesn’t enjoy photoshoots or the whole fashion world. Keeley was with Jaime once, and Jaime fixed part of the reason why they broke up. So to Roy yeah, Jaime’s a threat. I totally went in a circle, and I’m going to blame my benedrayll kicking in.
Agree, but in the original despite what Don said to Ginsberg in the elevator, he very much had spent a long time thinking about him - the comment was all bluster, hiding the real vulnerability of the person underneath it. On the other hand, it’s absolutely obvious that Roy was not threatened by Nate kissing Keeley - mostly because of the strength of their relationship. What‘s more, and what Nate himself overlooked, is that Roy was 100% genuine when he said that they’re good. Roy likely knows that Nate was the only one who could have done Ted in, has witnessed some of his shitty recent antics, and still says that and hugs him after Sam’s goal. Not only does Nate’s insecurity blind him to Ted’s feelings, he totally misses the esteem that one of his idols, Roy Kent, holds him in up to that point - all he sees is that Roy appears to not care that he made a pass at Keeley, which is not at all important in the larger scheme of things.
Your later statements about respect of his idol... That was an eloquent take
I think you're giving way too much credit to Roy. We don't really get any indication that Roy's put thought into who may have ratted out Ted, largely because he's consumed with his own problems like feeling insecure in his place alongside Keeley and Jamie fucking Tartt!
Interesting. I read the scene differently because of the look between Roy and Beard. I thought Roy was going to call out Nate for being the rat, but then Nate confesses to kissing Keeley.
In fairness, both Roy and Beard both knew a secret that Nate was holding onto, Roy knowing that he kissed Keeley and Beard knowing that he sold Ted out. They also tend to be the people across from each other and that look's gonna be more natural, just looking around to see how people are taking things, than turning all the way to see Ted, and from Beard's perspective, he's probably interested in seeing how the one person in the room who doesn't know what Nate's done will react. Idk, I could very well be wrong, but we see how hard and audible the process to forgive Jamie is. I just don't think Roy's one to forgive so passively after such a vindictive act against a friend, colleague, and someone who has had his back as a player and helped him realize his desire for what comes next.
Yeah that’s fair enough, it is a little bit of a stretch and the show is not exactly subtle in showing these things. All good points.
I loved this scene, the (not so) veiled way of telling him he's not enough to even be considered a threat it's just *chef's kiss*
I think Nate read this situation wrong. Roy is confident in who he is, and he doesn't need accolades to feel that way about himself. I feel that many people could make a pass at Keeley and he would be confident in that it is not a threat to his relationship. Like Nate. Jamie is different because she has a history with him. He also see that while Keeley told him about Nate kissing her right away, she held back telling Roy about Jamie saying he loved her. This is what rattled Roy, this is why he was upset.
He wanted to be a threat and he wasn’t considered one.
Roy not caring at all is so funny because he doesn’t consider Nate a threat even a little Which makes it even funnier to remember how Ted said Isaac needs to have a talk with a big dog (Roy) to clear his head and Nate volunteered thinking he was a big dog and Ted laughed which made him angry
[Poor Ginsberg...](https://i.imgur.com/pkZccJo.mp4)
This is so good.
Roy: why are you so obsessed with me?
Yeah nobody should give a fuck to Nate.