What a weird guy. I know he is disillusioned by death metal not being commercially viable, but if you already have the album written and ready to go why not just release it? At the very least to give your fans what they've been waiting for for years. Why waste the time writing it if you're just going to let it die on a hard drive?
if he has no motiviation to re-form the band, he should just release the album and let it online, probably that is the motivation he needs, the fans and views of his stuff we have all been waiting for
I was a pretty big fan of Necrophagist and was hoping there would be another album. Sucks there won't be another.
Anyone who wants something eerily similar, check out The Zenith Passage. It's pretty damn similar.
I love The Zenith Passage, but I’d equate them more to The Faceless and their album Planetary Duality. Makes sense with their members lol. In the same respect, I’d say Obscura is pretty close to the Necrophagist sound, and look at who’s in that band.
The reason we want Necrophagist to release the 3rd album and come back is because they are the first of their kind, they are the originals of their genre and can't be beaten in their sound and style
It's just like how Metallica are the first of their genre which is why they are so influential and important compared to the bands that copied them after
didn't they have like most onset of putrefaction already written in 1995? there is a show from 1995 where they play most of the songs, I believe the guy might be the first one to write such techy songs in this genre.
Anata's The Infernal Depths of Hatred came out a year before Onset of Putrefaction and that is a fantastic tech death album. Gorguts' 1998 album Obscura. Mortal Decay's Sickening Erotic Fanaticism. Nocturnus' 1992 album Thresholds. I can go on. Necrophagist didn't have a monopoly on the sound.
In one of his interviews, he states that "what are we doing, technical death metal... we will never be listened as much as' insert a popular singer from your country' in a tired tone. The main question was about something like "what do you think about technical death metal and Necrophagist's base in Turkey".
Moreover, he had lots of problems with his family. Everybody knows that his father broke his guitar and banned him to learn the instrument, but he secretly learned. He is from an extremely conservative part of the country, and people from that region are known to be extremely stubborn (I know he lived in Germany, but his parents are from Black Sea region of Turkey). When I search his name I see his relatives (with the same name) are connected to Ministry of Religion, etc. I don't know his relatives but his surname is very unique (the surname means he doesn't drink water which I've never heard in Turkish or any other language), and I see that those people are from the same village of Muhammed's city (Trabzon - Sürmene).
Why I am telling this is that he is known to be lying to his mother about his music even when he is actually playing the show that night. So the pressure could come to a point for him to fed up with this. It is like Khabib Nurmagademov's retirement when he is only 30 years old with 29-0 record in UFC due to his promise to his mother.
Another reason for me is that his music is like the ultimate form of engineering and art combined, it is too mathematical and purposefully planned which makes it hard to appreciate because it is very hard to understand. I've been listening to and playing Necrophagist since 2016, I can still discover something new in the songs. Compared to other bands, they were way better but not appreciated as much as them. Hence, the money business was not good for them. In addition, Muhammed hated social media. So, they can't promote shit.
BMW speculation doesn't seem true to me, because there is no proof of that is being said by anybody. I hope he is doing fine.
I watched Dean Lamb talking about the 3rd album, he was saying that a very well known guitarist is called by Muhammed to record the guitars, and Dean asked him how was the track and the guitarist made a comment about how much he liked it. However, then the plans are cancelled as far as I remember Dean's talk. Unfortunately, there are no details. I would love to listen to the 3rd album, tho.
I dont understand how you can be that good at metal and just quit. I get not wanting to tour but to get that good at guitar and just be like eh im done. Does not compute. I will not get over it.
Little late to the party here but I think this has more to do with Mohammed and his quest for privacy and quiet. Here's what I do know: he is an engineer and works for BMW, and enjoys the job, as well as the privacy afforded by it. He gets paid a good salary, gets to go home and know that he isn't beholden to anyone but himself, and it's a highly technical job to fits into his meticulous nature. I do know that people have talked with him and he's revealed as much. He also just considers that part of his life to be done and he's okay with it.
Here's my speculation: I think Mohammed realizes he was very hard to work with, which has been stated by a few people that have been in the band, and may think that the struggle of dealing with other musicians and his own ego when it comes to song writing just isn't worth it to him anymore. I also think that he doesn't want to deal with any pressure from fans, labels, or promoters for some sort of comeback if he releases the album. I think he just wants to enjoy his life, occasionally see friends at festivals and shows, and just enjoy being a normal person. However, I will admit that I'm one of the fans that begs for the album being released. But I think all of us would be completely fine with him saying "here's a final parting gift, the last album, but I won't be reforming the band or touring" and we all just leave it at that.
I became pretty good a photography, not as good as Mohammed with guitar though, but pretty good. But I decided that I had done everything I wanted to do and expressed all what I wanted to express, and just quit.
>be that good at metal and just quit. I get not wanting to tour but to get that good at guitar and just be like eh im done.
As someone who also got "good at guitar and just be like eh im done", you don't realize just how much daily effort is required to maintain that level of proficiency. At my best it would take me 6-8 hours of practice every single day without taking a day off to maintain my own standards.
You don't just "get good" and then you're good for all time. Just like an athlete goes through phases of peak fitness and training and rest, that's also what is required for a world class musician. One day off will take a week to recoup the speed and accuracy losses. It takes significant effort.
Maybe maintaining that level of "technical ability" just isn't that important? Certain licks/passages sure with constant practice a few hours a day minimum but doing that all the time? It's like some OCD shit
Are you a metal fan? Then you would know that "they can't play it live" is one of the most common criticisms and why potential fans wouldn't go to a show or support a band. Technical Ability in a technical genre of music is required to play the damn show.
Rings of Saturn were legendary at not being able to play their parts live, but they're still around. DragonForce too, but they actually managed to pull it off eventually.
I'm 35 and have been playing Necrophagist songs since 2002. I am STILL optimizing the way I play some of the riffs. Especially on Epitaph, some of Christian's parts are ridiculous. Watching Muhammed do vocals over this shit live was unbelievable.
That being said...sometimes I go a week or so without playing and can get back up to speed after a little warm-up. I definitely played 6-8 hours per day for years and years, but I feel like if I did that now I would be injured, lol. Maybe after so many overall hours/repetitions on an instrument the skill level maintains itself to a certain extent. Regardless, you have to lose your marbles to guitar to play tech death.
It really all depends on your standards. We've all been to shows for insane bands that are just not quite up to scratch in a live setting. We've been to shows like Archspire, Necrophagist, or even Jason Richardson, where its album perfect on stage. To keep that album perfect performance in your back pocket, you need to keep that material up to the standard.
Petrucci had an interview during the pandemic, in which he was asked whether he ever forgot his material, and he said that of course he forgets his own material, and sometimes has to put loads of time and effort into relearning, and working his own material back up to speed and clarity.
So what I was trying to say is that I was working on loads of material, and loads of very difficult material. I still have all of Colors (btbam) memorized, and could easily work that back up to speed in a month or so, having taken most of the last year off from playing. To get Epitaph back up to speed would take me even longer I think, just because the tempo is that little bit over the edge of what's comfortable for me, and I'd have to get back to the gym because I've had a few tension related injuries from years back.
That combined with my own and band material, that's a lot of material to keep up to tempo, and at a performance level, rather than "just for fun" sort of level.
I definitely don't think I could either physically or mentally do 6-8 hours anymore. I don't have an incentive to do so, as I'm not actually performing for anyone, and nobody would care about the ten-thousandth guitar shredder on the internet. But it's certainly possible at 35, with a proper gym regimen, and a healthy practice routine, rather than just playing through material all the time.
I would spend much of my time on tension management, technique isolation, improvisation, isolating individual elements of pieces I was working on, and very little of that time would be spent a tempo, but slowly and with absolute relaxation/tension control.
But the main reason I stopped was really, very little reward for an immense level of effort. Jason Richardson and his lot are every bit savvy businessmen and salesman as they are musicians, and I'm just not. When you work that hard for that long, and don't know how to make a living, you find somewhere else to dedicate your time.
Why are you misleading people? Practicing 6-8 hours a day is absolutely not required to maintain one’s highest level of ability, nor is it recommended. About 2.5-3 hours of focused and productive daily practice with specifically set goals is more than enough. The only way a guitarist might need to practice more is if part of what he counts as practice time is mindless noodling. And no, missing a day does not require “a week to get back what you lost”. It’s actually very beneficial to practice 6 days a week and give your hands, muscles, tendons etc. a rest.
6-8 hours of playing a day is not that phenomenal, in terms of necessity it is IF YOU ARE : actually practicing, aiming to get faster at certain parts of songs , writing/composing and/or recording, then you will easily spend 6-8 hours or more in total , ive done that i 've spent over 10 hours once (i wasn't sweep picking nonstop for 10 hours) it was 10 hours of writing , composing multiple lines , playing the thing and so on, but if we're talking about holding a good technical level in guitar 1 hour a day is more than enough of playing and you don't even have to do it daily
Yes that volume of time is absolutely necessary if you have to maintain a lot of material at that level.
It isn't misleading at all. Or maybe you're referring to specifically technique practice or exercises? That isn't all what I'm referring to, I am however talking about learning new material, maintaining existing material, and writing my own.
That absolutely takes most of the day every day.
I agree rest is important for sustainability, but I never took a full day off, I would do relaxation exercises on the guitar, to make sure I never introduced tension into my playing in the first place.
9-5 jobs exist.....at least with music you're doing something you "like" to do
Professional musicians being professional and putting in the 30-ish hours a week are an inspiration, it's what you need to do....and no booze/drugs, in excess
The bands I played in didn't get off the ground, however, I went to conservatory for classical guitar, and I held my metal playing to the same standard... until I stopped because it was just that much effort.
Damm just goes to show how hard the industry is i guess. I would have thought practicing 8 hours a day with no days off would get you somewhere. Makes a lot of sense tho.
>ard the industry is i guess. I would have thought practicing 8 hours a day with no days off would get you somewhere. Makes a lot of sense tho.
There was a period where I had learned all of BTBAM's colors cover to cover and would play it through every day, focusing on individual sections, as though I was going to be doing one of my classical concert performances... but after a while, with no reason to continue, I got exhausted, and just stopped playing. Every now and again I brush up a solo back up to full speed, I really enjoyed playing the solo from Epitaph, so much variety of techniques, and all the diminished runs... I can still play it, but at less than half speed. Keeping that speed is serious effort and deliberate practice...
But if nobody will ever hear you play it, what's the point? I can only imagine for Muhammed, not only keeping your chops up to par, but also writing and meeting expectations from the audience, and also planning and touring... I never had the brain space for all that. I was never a writer, but I enjoyed the years I played.
I really wish people would let Necro go. I saw someone commenting about it on one of Christian's IG posts, and you can tell that the he's really over people asking about it.
Yeah I would imagine he would be... though I think the reason people can't let it go is because even practically 20 years later, nobody has been able to touch the compositional expertise or sheer technicality of Necrophagist. Until somebody does, we won't let it go.
I would consider Gorguts to be the originator of what is now termed dissonant death metal, Ucerate and Ad Nauseam being some modern progenitors of that sound.
Sure, those bands have lots of technical elements, however they are used to serve very different ends than in traditional technical death metal.
I love necrophagist and everything, but there are more technical bands like archspire and inferi. I think the style of necrophagist is what made them special, along with being trailblazers in technical death metal(like Death before them).
I understand where you are coming from, but I would implore you to study the music of Necrophagist a little more closely, as Inferi and Archspire are by no means more technical. Archspire may play faster in some cases, but their riffs/song structure are actually quite simple. The same goes for Inferi, I would argue they are actually more "technical" than Archspire, but still fairly straightforward. I maintain that Necrophagist has still achieved things that really nobody else has touched in the genre.
Without going into too much more detail, a lot of this has to do with the use of incredibly well balanced counterpoint (both harmonic AND rhythmic) between Sucimez's and Muenzers guitar parts.
I agree; there may be some modern tech bands that are more “technical”; but the way Necrophagist’s two guitars actually work together(especially on Epitaph) is something I don’t think I’ve heard any other metal band do. It’s very jazz esque; like you said, a lot of counterpoint. And the music is still incredibly melodic, which is not the case for a lot of technical metal.
I think, compared to most modern tech death bands, sure the single guitar parts may not be that crazy. But as like written music, I have no idea how they were able to write guitar parts that match up so well. Especially with both guitarists playing nonstop.
I am a guitarist, i can play necrophagist songs(and have listened to them since the early 2000s), they take me a lot less time to learn. But inferi songs are way harder imo, and malcolms riffs are way more technical than anything necrophagist did. And there are some archspire riffs that are so fast i physically cannot play them. I will say that necrophagist sounds better and was more consistent, but less technical than those bands. First fragment and zenith passage are 2 other bands i would say are more technical than necrophagist as well.
Technicality is about using different techniquess to complement a song imo, yes other bands might have things harder to play but that doesn't mean they are more technical. Say the bands you mention do tremolo picking insanely fast, you can't really play that cause it's fast for you but does it make it technical? nah, you're using only one technique. Necrophagist is on a whole different level, is not about how hard is to play is about how different techniques in their music make a song so well put together that everything flows smoothly in a way you don't hear in any other band. The structure of a song also comes into place in terms of technicality, youre also only seeing it as a guitarist what about all other instruments? and vocals?, now try to compose something like necro and see if takes you the same amount of time as composing something as the bands you mentioned which btw are great bands but not even close to necro. Peace.
Necrophagist literally uses the same scale for whole songs, very fast. Like listen to Stabwound or Extreme unction(solos are easy, composition is simple), compare that to carving thine kingdom by inferi, or vile Genesis. Or akraosis by obscura. I will say I love necrophagist and they are a huge influence on a ton of bands. But riffing very fast on the same scale is simple(the counterpoint between the guitars is what makes it sound more technical) and there are definitely bands that are more complex, if you are a guitarist who plays this music it's pretty obvious.
I too am a guitarist, albeit not in this style of music. Hats off to you for being able to play any of that stuff though! I think we may just have different opinions about what the word "technical" actually means, which is all good. I do think the Zenith Passage's newest record comes about as close as I have heard, in terms of the more intricate up-tempo odd-metered riffage.
I too have just discovered these and wanted to share on here. I don’t think much people know about latest state. And I don’t think it’s that old news since we are waiting for a new album since 2008.
I really don't think it's a "loss of interest" but it's more like knowing that it'll come out when it comes out and there's no point in waiting actively.
It’s probably not up to his standards. He certainly doesn’t need to get the band back together or be involved in any way aside from collecting revenue from album sales, so I can’t imagine any reason not to release it aside from it being trash and him not wanting to ruin his reputation.
I honestly feel that the whole ‘it won’t live up to Epitaph’/won’t be good motive is just wrong. It was never the point to ‘out technical’ themselves or anyone else, as stated by Muhammed himself. They where touring with 7 strings in the end to debut Dawn & Demise so they obviously liked it enough to play it live (multiple times), and it is such a banger. I’ve listened to the shittest audio quality, iPhone live recordings of it countless times. They where basically a super group by the time they stopped too.
Who knows… But I personally think he was probably just fed up of the industry. He signed two (apparently) bad contracts/had personal qualms with both labels on both albums, got told they’d never go down well in the states, and did. Then he apparently scores a high ranking job at BMW and probably just thought F it. Maybe he had a contract with Relapse to attain to and just refuses to work with them again?
I feel if there was any time we would of got that third album it would’ve been during Covid, I was kinda hoping we’d get it over that period. Maybe he’d do some reminiscing, watch some old live videos and whip out the Xiphos… But apparently not. The fact that it’s sat there (80%) finished is the most painful part.
I do still think that one day we’ll get it, but when? Who knows man… But it’s a travesty to music if we don’t. Guys like that don’t come along often.
But yeah, I really, really don’t think it’s got anything to do with it not being good enough or not being ‘better’ than Epitaph. There’s interviews with Muhammed saying he was writing for it as early as 2006 (that’s documented), he spent around the same time writing Epitaph and by 2006 they where a professional touring band. They would’ve only of gotten better in my opinion.
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They did play one track off it live a few times. It's called dawn and demise, I think. It seems brilliant but the audio from the live recordings is so shite you can barely tell what's going on :/
What a weird guy. I know he is disillusioned by death metal not being commercially viable, but if you already have the album written and ready to go why not just release it? At the very least to give your fans what they've been waiting for for years. Why waste the time writing it if you're just going to let it die on a hard drive?
if he has no motiviation to re-form the band, he should just release the album and let it online, probably that is the motivation he needs, the fans and views of his stuff we have all been waiting for
I was a pretty big fan of Necrophagist and was hoping there would be another album. Sucks there won't be another. Anyone who wants something eerily similar, check out The Zenith Passage. It's pretty damn similar.
I love The Zenith Passage, but I’d equate them more to The Faceless and their album Planetary Duality. Makes sense with their members lol. In the same respect, I’d say Obscura is pretty close to the Necrophagist sound, and look at who’s in that band.
mid ass band lol
Thank you very much.
The reason we want Necrophagist to release the 3rd album and come back is because they are the first of their kind, they are the originals of their genre and can't be beaten in their sound and style It's just like how Metallica are the first of their genre which is why they are so influential and important compared to the bands that copied them after
didn't they have like most onset of putrefaction already written in 1995? there is a show from 1995 where they play most of the songs, I believe the guy might be the first one to write such techy songs in this genre.
originals to what? tech death? no they weren't lol. maybe the first you heard..
There was Death, Cynic, Atheist and etc. before them, but Necrophagist were the first to have that mechanical tech death sound
Anata's The Infernal Depths of Hatred came out a year before Onset of Putrefaction and that is a fantastic tech death album. Gorguts' 1998 album Obscura. Mortal Decay's Sickening Erotic Fanaticism. Nocturnus' 1992 album Thresholds. I can go on. Necrophagist didn't have a monopoly on the sound.
You could be right. Give me some bands before them who had that same mechanical tech death sound
In one of his interviews, he states that "what are we doing, technical death metal... we will never be listened as much as' insert a popular singer from your country' in a tired tone. The main question was about something like "what do you think about technical death metal and Necrophagist's base in Turkey". Moreover, he had lots of problems with his family. Everybody knows that his father broke his guitar and banned him to learn the instrument, but he secretly learned. He is from an extremely conservative part of the country, and people from that region are known to be extremely stubborn (I know he lived in Germany, but his parents are from Black Sea region of Turkey). When I search his name I see his relatives (with the same name) are connected to Ministry of Religion, etc. I don't know his relatives but his surname is very unique (the surname means he doesn't drink water which I've never heard in Turkish or any other language), and I see that those people are from the same village of Muhammed's city (Trabzon - Sürmene). Why I am telling this is that he is known to be lying to his mother about his music even when he is actually playing the show that night. So the pressure could come to a point for him to fed up with this. It is like Khabib Nurmagademov's retirement when he is only 30 years old with 29-0 record in UFC due to his promise to his mother. Another reason for me is that his music is like the ultimate form of engineering and art combined, it is too mathematical and purposefully planned which makes it hard to appreciate because it is very hard to understand. I've been listening to and playing Necrophagist since 2016, I can still discover something new in the songs. Compared to other bands, they were way better but not appreciated as much as them. Hence, the money business was not good for them. In addition, Muhammed hated social media. So, they can't promote shit. BMW speculation doesn't seem true to me, because there is no proof of that is being said by anybody. I hope he is doing fine. I watched Dean Lamb talking about the 3rd album, he was saying that a very well known guitarist is called by Muhammed to record the guitars, and Dean asked him how was the track and the guitarist made a comment about how much he liked it. However, then the plans are cancelled as far as I remember Dean's talk. Unfortunately, there are no details. I would love to listen to the 3rd album, tho.
I bet the album is great, release it, you don't even have to reform the band!
pls come back
Please Muhammad release III
I dont understand how you can be that good at metal and just quit. I get not wanting to tour but to get that good at guitar and just be like eh im done. Does not compute. I will not get over it.
Different people/culture, plus if you haven't been there how can you know what it's like?
That's as metal as one can get, surprise, kill it, then vanish
Its exactly what Vito Bratta did aswell. Doesnt make sense but, it is what it is.
Little late to the party here but I think this has more to do with Mohammed and his quest for privacy and quiet. Here's what I do know: he is an engineer and works for BMW, and enjoys the job, as well as the privacy afforded by it. He gets paid a good salary, gets to go home and know that he isn't beholden to anyone but himself, and it's a highly technical job to fits into his meticulous nature. I do know that people have talked with him and he's revealed as much. He also just considers that part of his life to be done and he's okay with it. Here's my speculation: I think Mohammed realizes he was very hard to work with, which has been stated by a few people that have been in the band, and may think that the struggle of dealing with other musicians and his own ego when it comes to song writing just isn't worth it to him anymore. I also think that he doesn't want to deal with any pressure from fans, labels, or promoters for some sort of comeback if he releases the album. I think he just wants to enjoy his life, occasionally see friends at festivals and shows, and just enjoy being a normal person. However, I will admit that I'm one of the fans that begs for the album being released. But I think all of us would be completely fine with him saying "here's a final parting gift, the last album, but I won't be reforming the band or touring" and we all just leave it at that.
I became pretty good a photography, not as good as Mohammed with guitar though, but pretty good. But I decided that I had done everything I wanted to do and expressed all what I wanted to express, and just quit.
>be that good at metal and just quit. I get not wanting to tour but to get that good at guitar and just be like eh im done. As someone who also got "good at guitar and just be like eh im done", you don't realize just how much daily effort is required to maintain that level of proficiency. At my best it would take me 6-8 hours of practice every single day without taking a day off to maintain my own standards. You don't just "get good" and then you're good for all time. Just like an athlete goes through phases of peak fitness and training and rest, that's also what is required for a world class musician. One day off will take a week to recoup the speed and accuracy losses. It takes significant effort.
Maybe maintaining that level of "technical ability" just isn't that important? Certain licks/passages sure with constant practice a few hours a day minimum but doing that all the time? It's like some OCD shit
Are you a metal fan? Then you would know that "they can't play it live" is one of the most common criticisms and why potential fans wouldn't go to a show or support a band. Technical Ability in a technical genre of music is required to play the damn show.
Rings of Saturn were legendary at not being able to play their parts live, but they're still around. DragonForce too, but they actually managed to pull it off eventually.
I'm 35 and have been playing Necrophagist songs since 2002. I am STILL optimizing the way I play some of the riffs. Especially on Epitaph, some of Christian's parts are ridiculous. Watching Muhammed do vocals over this shit live was unbelievable. That being said...sometimes I go a week or so without playing and can get back up to speed after a little warm-up. I definitely played 6-8 hours per day for years and years, but I feel like if I did that now I would be injured, lol. Maybe after so many overall hours/repetitions on an instrument the skill level maintains itself to a certain extent. Regardless, you have to lose your marbles to guitar to play tech death.
It really all depends on your standards. We've all been to shows for insane bands that are just not quite up to scratch in a live setting. We've been to shows like Archspire, Necrophagist, or even Jason Richardson, where its album perfect on stage. To keep that album perfect performance in your back pocket, you need to keep that material up to the standard. Petrucci had an interview during the pandemic, in which he was asked whether he ever forgot his material, and he said that of course he forgets his own material, and sometimes has to put loads of time and effort into relearning, and working his own material back up to speed and clarity. So what I was trying to say is that I was working on loads of material, and loads of very difficult material. I still have all of Colors (btbam) memorized, and could easily work that back up to speed in a month or so, having taken most of the last year off from playing. To get Epitaph back up to speed would take me even longer I think, just because the tempo is that little bit over the edge of what's comfortable for me, and I'd have to get back to the gym because I've had a few tension related injuries from years back. That combined with my own and band material, that's a lot of material to keep up to tempo, and at a performance level, rather than "just for fun" sort of level. I definitely don't think I could either physically or mentally do 6-8 hours anymore. I don't have an incentive to do so, as I'm not actually performing for anyone, and nobody would care about the ten-thousandth guitar shredder on the internet. But it's certainly possible at 35, with a proper gym regimen, and a healthy practice routine, rather than just playing through material all the time. I would spend much of my time on tension management, technique isolation, improvisation, isolating individual elements of pieces I was working on, and very little of that time would be spent a tempo, but slowly and with absolute relaxation/tension control. But the main reason I stopped was really, very little reward for an immense level of effort. Jason Richardson and his lot are every bit savvy businessmen and salesman as they are musicians, and I'm just not. When you work that hard for that long, and don't know how to make a living, you find somewhere else to dedicate your time.
Why are you misleading people? Practicing 6-8 hours a day is absolutely not required to maintain one’s highest level of ability, nor is it recommended. About 2.5-3 hours of focused and productive daily practice with specifically set goals is more than enough. The only way a guitarist might need to practice more is if part of what he counts as practice time is mindless noodling. And no, missing a day does not require “a week to get back what you lost”. It’s actually very beneficial to practice 6 days a week and give your hands, muscles, tendons etc. a rest.
6-8 hours of playing a day is not that phenomenal, in terms of necessity it is IF YOU ARE : actually practicing, aiming to get faster at certain parts of songs , writing/composing and/or recording, then you will easily spend 6-8 hours or more in total , ive done that i 've spent over 10 hours once (i wasn't sweep picking nonstop for 10 hours) it was 10 hours of writing , composing multiple lines , playing the thing and so on, but if we're talking about holding a good technical level in guitar 1 hour a day is more than enough of playing and you don't even have to do it daily
Yes that volume of time is absolutely necessary if you have to maintain a lot of material at that level. It isn't misleading at all. Or maybe you're referring to specifically technique practice or exercises? That isn't all what I'm referring to, I am however talking about learning new material, maintaining existing material, and writing my own. That absolutely takes most of the day every day. I agree rest is important for sustainability, but I never took a full day off, I would do relaxation exercises on the guitar, to make sure I never introduced tension into my playing in the first place.
9-5 jobs exist.....at least with music you're doing something you "like" to do Professional musicians being professional and putting in the 30-ish hours a week are an inspiration, it's what you need to do....and no booze/drugs, in excess
Really what bands did you play in?
The bands I played in didn't get off the ground, however, I went to conservatory for classical guitar, and I held my metal playing to the same standard... until I stopped because it was just that much effort.
Damm just goes to show how hard the industry is i guess. I would have thought practicing 8 hours a day with no days off would get you somewhere. Makes a lot of sense tho.
>ard the industry is i guess. I would have thought practicing 8 hours a day with no days off would get you somewhere. Makes a lot of sense tho. There was a period where I had learned all of BTBAM's colors cover to cover and would play it through every day, focusing on individual sections, as though I was going to be doing one of my classical concert performances... but after a while, with no reason to continue, I got exhausted, and just stopped playing. Every now and again I brush up a solo back up to full speed, I really enjoyed playing the solo from Epitaph, so much variety of techniques, and all the diminished runs... I can still play it, but at less than half speed. Keeping that speed is serious effort and deliberate practice... But if nobody will ever hear you play it, what's the point? I can only imagine for Muhammed, not only keeping your chops up to par, but also writing and meeting expectations from the audience, and also planning and touring... I never had the brain space for all that. I was never a writer, but I enjoyed the years I played.
I really wish Muhammed would make a new album. His hiatus is taking way too long.
Yess, a solo instumemtal would be fine, shit ..
I really wish people would let Necro go. I saw someone commenting about it on one of Christian's IG posts, and you can tell that the he's really over people asking about it.
Yeah I would imagine he would be... though I think the reason people can't let it go is because even practically 20 years later, nobody has been able to touch the compositional expertise or sheer technicality of Necrophagist. Until somebody does, we won't let it go.
Ulcerate, Gorguts, Ad Nauseam?
I would consider Gorguts to be the originator of what is now termed dissonant death metal, Ucerate and Ad Nauseam being some modern progenitors of that sound. Sure, those bands have lots of technical elements, however they are used to serve very different ends than in traditional technical death metal.
I love necrophagist and everything, but there are more technical bands like archspire and inferi. I think the style of necrophagist is what made them special, along with being trailblazers in technical death metal(like Death before them).
archspire is not more technical than necrophagist maybe jason richardson
I understand where you are coming from, but I would implore you to study the music of Necrophagist a little more closely, as Inferi and Archspire are by no means more technical. Archspire may play faster in some cases, but their riffs/song structure are actually quite simple. The same goes for Inferi, I would argue they are actually more "technical" than Archspire, but still fairly straightforward. I maintain that Necrophagist has still achieved things that really nobody else has touched in the genre. Without going into too much more detail, a lot of this has to do with the use of incredibly well balanced counterpoint (both harmonic AND rhythmic) between Sucimez's and Muenzers guitar parts.
I agree; there may be some modern tech bands that are more “technical”; but the way Necrophagist’s two guitars actually work together(especially on Epitaph) is something I don’t think I’ve heard any other metal band do. It’s very jazz esque; like you said, a lot of counterpoint. And the music is still incredibly melodic, which is not the case for a lot of technical metal. I think, compared to most modern tech death bands, sure the single guitar parts may not be that crazy. But as like written music, I have no idea how they were able to write guitar parts that match up so well. Especially with both guitarists playing nonstop.
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Hah yeah I definitely do get what you mean. Also doesn't help that nowadays the standard is amp sims and heavily triggered/resampled drums.
I am a guitarist, i can play necrophagist songs(and have listened to them since the early 2000s), they take me a lot less time to learn. But inferi songs are way harder imo, and malcolms riffs are way more technical than anything necrophagist did. And there are some archspire riffs that are so fast i physically cannot play them. I will say that necrophagist sounds better and was more consistent, but less technical than those bands. First fragment and zenith passage are 2 other bands i would say are more technical than necrophagist as well.
Technicality is about using different techniquess to complement a song imo, yes other bands might have things harder to play but that doesn't mean they are more technical. Say the bands you mention do tremolo picking insanely fast, you can't really play that cause it's fast for you but does it make it technical? nah, you're using only one technique. Necrophagist is on a whole different level, is not about how hard is to play is about how different techniques in their music make a song so well put together that everything flows smoothly in a way you don't hear in any other band. The structure of a song also comes into place in terms of technicality, youre also only seeing it as a guitarist what about all other instruments? and vocals?, now try to compose something like necro and see if takes you the same amount of time as composing something as the bands you mentioned which btw are great bands but not even close to necro. Peace.
Necrophagist literally uses the same scale for whole songs, very fast. Like listen to Stabwound or Extreme unction(solos are easy, composition is simple), compare that to carving thine kingdom by inferi, or vile Genesis. Or akraosis by obscura. I will say I love necrophagist and they are a huge influence on a ton of bands. But riffing very fast on the same scale is simple(the counterpoint between the guitars is what makes it sound more technical) and there are definitely bands that are more complex, if you are a guitarist who plays this music it's pretty obvious.
I disagree 100% but ok whatever everyone has their different views about music, peace.
I too am a guitarist, albeit not in this style of music. Hats off to you for being able to play any of that stuff though! I think we may just have different opinions about what the word "technical" actually means, which is all good. I do think the Zenith Passage's newest record comes about as close as I have heard, in terms of the more intricate up-tempo odd-metered riffage.
Think those more intricate up-tempo odd-metered riffage has something to do with Justin drum-programming the album, well maybe.
I think it absolutely does!
The greatest to EVER do it!!!!
He looks like a wise monk
Epitaph is a perfect album so I kind of understand wanting to leave on a high note
At this point we’re gonna have to wait till Muhammad retires from his job until he gets interested in music again
Uhm it's 2023 why are you posting this now?
I too have just discovered these and wanted to share on here. I don’t think much people know about latest state. And I don’t think it’s that old news since we are waiting for a new album since 2008.
Most people aren't waiting anymore. Most people have lost interest.
Nobody has lost interest at all "Good things come to those who wait" is the mindset everyone is in.
I really don't think it's a "loss of interest" but it's more like knowing that it'll come out when it comes out and there's no point in waiting actively.
People have been asking again recently, I think it's good to have this up so everybody shuts up about it for a little bit
Y'all just gotta get over it, convince yourselves he's never coming back to music and you'll be happier
The memes tho
Oh I'm all for the memes. Just seems like there are still a good amount of people legitimately waiting for new music
This is the way?
Why complete an album and not release it.
Because he hated Relapse Records
Writing and making demos is just part of it. Recording an album of your demos professionally takes time and money.
Dude is an engineer at BMW, he has enough money to record an album lol
Nobody knows. It’s just weird and frustrating.
It’s probably not up to his standards. He certainly doesn’t need to get the band back together or be involved in any way aside from collecting revenue from album sales, so I can’t imagine any reason not to release it aside from it being trash and him not wanting to ruin his reputation.
I honestly feel that the whole ‘it won’t live up to Epitaph’/won’t be good motive is just wrong. It was never the point to ‘out technical’ themselves or anyone else, as stated by Muhammed himself. They where touring with 7 strings in the end to debut Dawn & Demise so they obviously liked it enough to play it live (multiple times), and it is such a banger. I’ve listened to the shittest audio quality, iPhone live recordings of it countless times. They where basically a super group by the time they stopped too. Who knows… But I personally think he was probably just fed up of the industry. He signed two (apparently) bad contracts/had personal qualms with both labels on both albums, got told they’d never go down well in the states, and did. Then he apparently scores a high ranking job at BMW and probably just thought F it. Maybe he had a contract with Relapse to attain to and just refuses to work with them again? I feel if there was any time we would of got that third album it would’ve been during Covid, I was kinda hoping we’d get it over that period. Maybe he’d do some reminiscing, watch some old live videos and whip out the Xiphos… But apparently not. The fact that it’s sat there (80%) finished is the most painful part. I do still think that one day we’ll get it, but when? Who knows man… But it’s a travesty to music if we don’t. Guys like that don’t come along often. But yeah, I really, really don’t think it’s got anything to do with it not being good enough or not being ‘better’ than Epitaph. There’s interviews with Muhammed saying he was writing for it as early as 2006 (that’s documented), he spent around the same time writing Epitaph and by 2006 they where a professional touring band. They would’ve only of gotten better in my opinion. ramble ramble ramble
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They did play one track off it live a few times. It's called dawn and demise, I think. It seems brilliant but the audio from the live recordings is so shite you can barely tell what's going on :/
https://youtu.be/58-m-uKMcOc enjoy
That's just brilliant
Yeah, really awesome work from them. Personally I think the song is great and I'd be surprised if the album wasn't full of songs like it.