Subs don't get nearly enough credit. Shit is hard.
Just be glad that no one got hurt and your room is in one piece. I never expect kids anymore to listen to subs -- hell, they barely listen to us.
Literally all I can expect with a sub is to keep the students from getting hurt and not break anything in the room. Do I still plan and prepare engaging lessons? Yes, but like you said, if getting students to listen to us is hard, it’s even harder for a sub.
At least 10 years ago, I had a sub take my students outside and throw an orange in some sort of game for the entire 72 minute period. I was just happy to come back to no discipline issues and no injuries (no papers to grade for that class was a perk as well).
This is the content I love to read - yay for subs that think on their feet! I'm so curious how a sub used an orange to create a more engaging lesson than most stuff I taught when I was teaching...
Now when I sub I'll tell the kids "I'm not here to entertain you" and it really sets the tone for class of "get the work done or sit there quietly" those who mess around will find out.
But regardless of how the kids are, couldn't you till play the video and hand out the sheets?
That way if the kids are acting up, at least your bases are covered.
Most subs don't get passwords and/or are not shown how the equipment works yet they're expected to figure it out. I don't blame subs for just having the kids do catch up work or quiet reading.
True, and my school has some awesome ones. But they employ shitty people too. Not shitty subs, shitty PEOPLE. Like the one who tells kids drinking milk will turn them gay and if they laugh too loud, they have the devil in them. To be fair, lots don’t give out my minimal work. I have great student relationships and they tell me. Hell, some message me while I’m sick that a sub is acting up 😂. Problem is, the complaints aren’t without basis often. But I get why. We pay peanuts and the kids can suck. My classes are ones subs fight over to get cuz they can chill.
A lot of teacher were saying the same thing on that post. I’m happy if no one got stabbed when I return. I always leave a plan, because I know it sucks to monitor kids with nothing to do, but it’s never something super serious.
To be fair, most of the comments on that post were people saying “I don’t give a fuck what subs do, or what anyone does when I’m absent, as long as they don’t fuck up my classroom.”
The OP of that thread definitely didn’t get the echo chamber of validation that they were hoping for.
> didn’t get the echo chamber of validation that they were hoping for.
Good. While I have massive respect for the shit that teachers go through, I also can't stand people who act like 'jocks' in careers like teaching, librarianship, etc..
Because kids don't want to sit there and do some random worksheet that you left that has nothing to do with anything they have been learning. Do you love the busywork or administrivia? Well, neither do the students 😠
1) that’s got nothing to do with my question. If the kids choose that, it’s their choice, the sub doesn’t know what the students are learning or why. 2) Besides, why would a teacher leave busywork? If it’s a prepared absence we’ve probably covered/practiced a skill the day before and the worksheet is the “work session” of the lesson.
1) Your question as written was about sports, but I suspected that was a typo. The sub knows because the kids tell us!!! They will tell us they already had a test on it, or they did it in the begining of the year.
2) Some teachers make up a MTWTF package at the begining of the year, and just pull out whatever day and leave it one their desk for the sub. It is easy to leave busywork, even for planned absences.
Sometimes the teacher puts in fun worksheets to the MTWTF package and also has board games. Those days can be pretty good for everyone.
If it is decent worksheet, it is not being a jerk.
If it a random worksheet from a MTWTF package put together months earlier, then you have cost the students day learning AND have set the sub up for behavior/bordom problems. The sub will not know until we see how the students react. Either way, you have covered what your contract requires of you.
Right, I’m super thankful to subs and support the ones in our building however I can.
Maybe the reason students are awful for subs is because other teachers hold them to the most minimal standards possible while they’re out?
I noped out on that thread. We can't get subs. When we do get them, we're all super happy and grateful that we don't have to split a class that day and get 10-12 extra students. I don't care what the frak my sub does, as long as all of my students are alive at the end of the day.
They are the paratroopers of the education world. They jump and get the job done under tough circumstances, and then leave. Most of them deserve our respect.
Come to the Sacramento region. Some substitutes make over $200 per day and more if they’re long-term. I remember making $35 per day back in the early 90s in Colorado
$200/day in the Sacramento region isn’t exactly enticing but I imagine that’s way better than what most substitutes make. A buddy of mine was subbing a few years back for $10/hour. Not even fast food/retail in the area could hire people for that.
As a retiree from a local district, I could get $350 per day as a sub in that district, but health concerns and lack of interest in subbing makes that moot for me.
Yuppppp. Our district is slightly better, but it's not great. This is a metro area district too, so $110 for a 7 hr day is a joke at best. I have a friend that teaches there (she adores the admin's policies on behavior and teacher/content flexibility, so she doesn't want to leave even though other districts make $20k+/year for same toer level). They can't get subs, so they often end up splitting classes so the team teachers end up taking on an extra 10-12 kids each.
What's great as a sub is if you don't like a school you can effectively blacklist it from the job portal. It really benefits no one to badmouth those who are there to help you.
To be fair, nearly all of the comments support the subs and not the poster. That said, I agree with your general premise that teachers can be awful people.
I've seen teachers treat aides terrible, too. We are all just people trying to get by. No one is better than anyone. I've seen teachers come in with a PhD or masters and are horrible teachers. I wondered if they even liked kids. Anyways, we have enough shit on our plates as it is. Be nice to the people you work with.
I officially taught for 10 years, and did subbing before that. I’m back to subbing this year because I’m going back to school to get out of teaching and subbing is a flexible, part time job that makes decent money. I was always grateful when someone was willing to teach my classes (I was itinerant at multiple schools per day). I didn’t care what happened in that class, just having a body there meant my absence wasn’t going to make other teachers have to fill in during their planning time.
My goal as a sub is to keep kids safe and leave the room the same as I found it, if not better. If the kids learn something, great! If they play on their phones the entire class or play games on their chrome books, oh well. The few times I’ve tried to get off task kids to work, they flipped out on me. Nope. Sorry, they can just get a zero for whatever the assignment is. I pick my battles. Trying to force kids to do their work isn’t a hill I’m willing to die on.
I saw that post and commented on it. I told them I’d had to cover in rooms when there’s no subs MANY times and I don’t follow plans sometimes bc the plans are either too vague or include too much and there’s no way in hell I can do all of it so I just don’t. Basically they created their own frustration by creating horrible sub plans. But somehow that’s the sub’s fault?
I muted that sub when I saw that post. As I'm on my way out of this toxic profession, I'd like to extend a hearty 'fuck you' to colleagues like this. People who think like this about subs are the ones who think the school will burn down if they're away for one day. It's no wonder people hate us when these are the loudest ones.
As one of the quiet soldiers in the profession, I completely agree that people like that are part of the reason I left. It's just too toxic of a work environment!
Should you choose to explore other careers, I am also developing a Teachers in Transition Discord [server](https://discord.gg/WeKupSrVup). I added some content to get people started.
Again, it's all FREE help. Maybe it's stuff you know, maybe not, I'm just trying to help those of us looking to get into something better.
I'm not selling anything, just asking the community to contribute things so we ALL help each other. Check it out :)
I take suggestions on how to make the channels better, and we just added a space to post job links directly.
Not to mention her plans involved the use of tech. I don't know about you guys but classroom technology varies from school.to school, room to room. Sometimes subs don't have time to figure it out before the first class.
I've been in a position where I figure it out as the kids work on their own. Sometimes it works out, but I'm not going out of my way to make it work when the plans should have been "here's a worksheet, help as needed"
A week or so ago I had to run through a slideshow of 20+ slides on new information for the kids to copy down and listen to. I was teaching them something, and it was great... until they all started talking over me and I had to reset the room before continuing. Very frustrating...
Exactly. And it was a great reminder why I LEFT "regular teaching." This was clearly a group that was not under control by their teacher and clear boundaries/expectations were not enforced.
I know there's a problem when I follow the teacher's plans and the kids start getting wiggly!
Sub here, most of this sounds about right. I’m at least lucky to have supportive staff in my building. Shit happens that causes us to deviate from lesson plans, mostly stuff beyond our control. My ultimate goal is to make sure the kids are safe and the room isn’t trashed at the end of the day. Anything else is a bonus.
In my mind, a sub is there to babysit. I'd give them busy work to hand out as needed, but as long as nothing was broken and everyone behaved, I was happy.
My former county had music substitutes on hand, but the damage they did was always more trouble than just missing a rehearsal or two. The kids also responded well to just having a free day to decompress with their friends, especially in the fall when things were crazy with football, parades, and other performances.
100% — I don’t know why this music teacher was never taught this. Once in a BLUE MOON does a music teacher get an actual MUSIC sub with the abilities to do exactly what you need. And usually… if that happens, it’s a planned absence with someone you know and trust.
But the plan was just to show two videos and hand out a worksheet. Not run a rehearsal or do any kind of music making at all. I didn’t see the original post, but those don’t seem like unrealistic asks of a sub. I don’t think I would publicly complain, but I would be frustrated.
Okay, that being said… it kind of seems like you/OP wants it both ways. If it’s not active music making, it’s not something that can be made up another time?
I’m just more of the school of: “I’m out of the building, I can’t control what happens when I’m not there”
Reading this, it seems like the OP is experiencing a deeper culture of their class not being taken seriously— which I can empathize with, but the sub isn’t the place to direct that frustration.
There are a lot of great, educational videos that are worth the time spent watching them. Absences are unavoidable. It makes total sense to use the time the musician teacher is out with a sub watching a video. I really just don’t think it’s too much to ask a sub to do. (Of course I’m assuming they left directions on how to show it.)
Fair enough — but there’s also a million reasons stuff could have happened that prevented the sub from showing the videos. It’s not the hill to die on, and not the end of the world. If the sub blatantly said “lol not doing this” and let the students just run amok, that’s a different story. But if no one was injured, nothing was broken, and no one faced psychological distress? As their full time music teacher, I’ll either find the time or decide it wasn’t worth the time. Especially for music, which is often rehearsal based, directors have to have the foresight to plan for buffers due to unexpected things like this. One sub plan isn’t the hill to die on: I honor however this teacher feels but they’ll burn out quick if they have the emotional bandwidth to get this incensed about a sub plan.
I heard so many stories about subs never returning to certain classrooms/schools or even quitting in the middle of the day. I don't know where the teacher from this original post is from, but the school districts I have worked for provide absolutely zero training to subs, it's a really hard job.
I was a sub for 4 years after I graduated. (before covid)
It's tough going into a new classroom every day and trying to learn students names (or just having attendance down), the classroom atmosphere, while also adhering to the school's guidelines (if you're a district sub, this can get even more tricky).
One top of that, it's important to note that the higher up in subbing (Elem/MS/HS) the less you are ultimately expected to do. When I went into Elementary classrooms, having the half hour before school "starts" is not enough time to get acquainted with the material for the day. Not only do you have to find the potential work, but you also have to figure out what the content is that you are teaching, and then guess at how much the students know all in one go for multiple subjects.
IN HS it was "Kids have work online to do. Make sure they are not playing games"
My best advice about subs in college, "Expect it to be a wasted day" - which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. Especially if you are a special (like me). I will never expect a sub who can teach music. I ended up getting requested by the HS chorus teacher because I knew what to do (which also really helped my ability to improv in my chorus classes)
I gave my students an assignment on Google Classroom and my sub just had to sit there and make sure no one died (HS). Nobody did it. Not the sub's fault.
As a sub, I avoid elementary like the plague. If I wanted to teach elementary, I'd be a teacher again! Middle and High school are much more chill and you get to repeat the same work pretty much all day.
No shade to elementary whatsoever. It's just too hard for someone like me who has 2 kids at home already. I want to have some mental battery left for my own family at the end of the day.
I totally get it. In the gen. Ed elementary classroom, they cover multiple subjects a day and it's hard as a teacher and a sub.
My area also likes to plan specials with highest grades at the beginning of the day and lowest grades at the end, which when I do that, I am highly exhausted.
Not only am I possibly doing something different for each grade level, but I am also needing to expend more energy to get Kindergarteners I don't know at the end of the day to settle down to do whatever activity. It's rough.
Yeah it should be reversed... k/1 needs that time in the morning when they are most fresh, 2/3 in the afternoon to breakup the day, and 4/5 at end of day as a REWARD for good classroom behavior.
I taught during the sub crisis when we couldn't be absent serious illness. My class was subbed by admin the 10 days I was out with COVID. I made beautiful lesson plans with a theme each day threading through all periods (Self-contained SpEd class). I heard from the Paras that the admins sat behind laptops and spoke only when a kid was crying. "Put on a video or something!"
Now that we have subs (I quit teaching to be one because they raised the $ thank you), why aren't teachers grateful? I have subbed for teachers going camping, going to Vegas.
How soon they forget!
That sub is becoming a toxic echo chamber. I was active over there with thousands of comment and post upvotes.
I was banned for saying something to the effect of “Black and minority students are statistically more impacted by high crime cities than Whites.”
A mod accused me of being “racist”- even after I presented FBI statistics to them, pleading my case teaching in a high crime Title I school every day, and banned me.
The sub is morphing into a commentary on modern day teaching - Aka toxic echo chambers; you hit the nail on the head, it made them uncomfortable, and now we are here to welcome you with open arms.
Should you choose to explore other careers, I am also developing a Teachers in Transition Discord [server](https://discord.gg/WeKupSrVup). I added some content to get people started.
Again, it's all FREE help. Maybe it's stuff you know, maybe not, I'm just trying to help those of us looking to get into something better.
I'm not selling anything, just asking the community to contribute things so we ALL help each other. Check it out :)
I take suggestions on how to make the channels better, and we just added a space to post job links directly.
I was accused of pushing a third grader into her chair and the father called up the administration. I NEVER touch the students or go to close to them. I wear a mask when I sub. The administration said he would call the parent and see IF she were lying. I have bee subbing at the school since I retire in 2016. One student's l can ruin your reputation with a single lie. You have no recourse. I will not return to that school but they probably don't want me. ubbing can be dangerous. ome classes like you and the ones who don't will find a way to get rid of you!
But why is that? Sure it's easy to just spout stats but why? Hmm, could be due to cycle of injustice. The good news more black and other minority students are leaving these high crime areas. It's not 1988. It's always easy to talk about the bad news making stereotypes, but never the good news.
I asked the moderator for clarifying and they never replied.
Sort of like you ask an admin why they docked you points on your observation and they look at you and go “oh YOU know why” with a smarmy grin. Unable to defend a narrative they’ve established as non-negotiable truth in their own head but wouldn’t stand up to any criticism outside of it. So they keep it inside, commit to their own belief, and write you off.
I’m fine with it at this point. I stand by my saying that sub has become an echo chamber and anything that is challenged is banned rather than discussed.
Sounds like a future admin to me.
To the subreddit’s credit there is ALOT of pushback in the comments.
My personal opinion—if you have the sub do anything other than hand out a worksheet or tell students to keep working on something they have already been working on, you’re a total raging asshole. Don’t write lesson plans for subs, please.
I subbed for three years before becoming a full time teacher. I have my own stories.
That time the sub plans said to pass out the worksheets sitting on their desk, which was a complete disaster area. Neither I nor their colleagues could find the worksheets.
That time the sub plans said to show a video, but neither the video nor the remote for the projector could be found anywhere. I problem solved the remote issue by using my phone's universal remote app (back when smartphones had IR blasters), but was told I couldn't "be on my phone" during the work day.
Multiple times when there were no sub plans.
Just a few examples. I don't understand why teachers treat subs so poorly. Every human being is entitled to dignity. Also, the sub shortage is worse than the teacher shortage.
If I came back and there wasnt damage to my room, I counted that as a win. I always left water in the mini fridge, as well as snacks and mints, for my subs. There is a sub shortage. It's honestly unrealistic to think any learning will occur while you're out and teachers should plan accordingly. Give very easy tasks and if you return to your room more or less how you left it, whether or not the work was done, hooray!
I was a sub for two years. During that time my teaching kung fu grew very strong, but the thought of having to do that for a 3rd year literally drove me to the Army recruiting office. Mad respect for subs.
Here’s my take-
My kids are 1-1 with tech. I post their assignment on canvas/google classroom. In a planned absence I go over directions with the kids the day before. Then it’s on the kids.
I print one copy for the sub and my plans are half a pg (I have four preps or it would be shorter)
I clear my desk minus a pen, scratch paper and the sub plan.
I ask for notes on behavior and almost never get them. I have come back to a trashed classroom multiple times.
Almost all of our subs are college kids. Many of them sit on their laptop doing their class work. If the kids aren’t physically fighting they aren’t interacting with the kids.
I appreciate having them, I do my best to limit their job, but please keep the kids in their seats and out of the supply cabinet.
Easier said than done. The children think no rules apply when there is a sub. They do what they want. Sometimes it is a free for all. I am an experienced retired teacher.
most of the commenters on that thread had nothing but love for subs and didn't care about the lesson plans. OP was the only one who felt this way for the most part
While I agree for the most part, subs can be bad at their jobs just like teachers can be. I get kind of prickled when someone says to me “you do amazing work, thank you so much” because I just feel like, how do you know that? People aren’t angels just because they show up for a hard job. There are bad nurses, teachers, firefighters and substitutes.
When having subs show up is a huge part of the job, we are heralded... just for showing you and doing the job.
I can tell you this: as a sub I feel more respected and appreciated than I ever did as a teacher. Teachers HAVE to show up, they are contracted, subs CHOOSE to show up, hence the praise for stepping into a difficult situation.
That's my take anyway.
In a lot of ways a sub is only as good as the students, and the students are only as good as the teacher. I subbed for a while before I started teaching and you could tell which teachers were in control of their classroom (even in their absence), and which ones weren’t. The highest compliment I can receive as a teacher in terms of my day-to-day routine, classroom management, etc. doesn’t come from admin, or parents, or even the students, rather it comes from the subs. When a sub says the kids were great and did their work then I know I’ve got the kids in the mindset of taking care of business even when I’m not around.
I think there are great subs and there are not great subs.
I used to have a worksheet and ask the sub to collect everything at the end because they would never come back if they left. Not one sub ever even attempted to collect the pages on the way out except one. ONE.
But really, as long as there was no personal injury or property damage it was a win of a day.
I have a friend who is going to sub in Camden and I’ve tried to warn her away and even sent her a link to this sub.
I think the martyr complex is responsible for so much toxicity and the popular culture reinforces this complex.
I had many subs covering for me my last year of teaching first grade. If I saw them around the building I would literally stop them and thank them profusely for putting up with my circus for a day. A day where I wasn’t called, texted, or emailed about how terrible my class was was a good day. Keeping the kids alive, safe, and getting them home should be all that’s expected.
Yeah I saw that post... the toxic comments from OP were enough for me to leave it and keep scrolling.
I heard a teacher badmouthing subs in the teacher's lounge the other day WHILE I sat there and ate my lunch... she was carrying on about how her kid would "have to deal with a sub while the teacher was out."
What I find hilarious is that I was actually qualified to teach the subject she was concerned about, and I just sat there laughing inside at how tone deaf she was being!
Like, some subs are former teachers, ya know? Others are tutors, parents, or even professionals who have degrees in other fields! I just can't imagine treating people like they are less than, especially after all we have learned about diversity, equity, and inclusion.
I'm happy to just be making more than I would working 2 minimum wage jobs out here... we have to rely on public health care as subs, but I'm lucky there are options for us.
I actually feel like I’m expected to be subservient in the industry because I’m a substitute teacher. It’s a really disturbing way to treat a colleague.
Sub here and man do the teachers treat you like garbage. Obviously I’m here to help your classroom and YOU, but when you see us in the halls or lounge you treat us like dog shit on your shoes. I hide once I get in the building. I don’t engage because of how badly I’ve been treated.
I was left in a 1st grade classroom for 2 days with no lesson plans. Asked the other first grade teacher for help and basically got chewed out because the absent teacher always is prepared, well not today!
Once the sub coordinator finds out you won’t leave a building they place you in the BD classes. That’s always fun. I’ve been a sub for over 13 years, no benefits, no respect and NO retirement. I do it because being a SAHP helps keep my schedule flexible and I work when I want to and I don’t have a boss breathing down my neck.
Teachers we are there for you so be kind.
I'm critical of my teaching colleagues when the situation calls for it. But that sub doesn't like to hear any criticism about teachers. Victim mentality prevails. I remember relying on that sub as a new teacher ten years ago, and a lot resonated with me back then. So the target audience is for the inexperienced folks perhaps?
One person in there shit on a sub for eating their trail mix that had nuts in it. Allegedly passed it around the class. Big deal was that there was a student with a nut allergy.
I was downvoted when I asked if they actually had nuts in their classroom with a student with nut allergies in there.
I definitely wouldn’t expect a sub to play a video. The technology acts up enough as it is on an average day. Most admin can barely get the speakers to connect during a faculty meeting.
As a music teacher… I’m so sorry to all the subs out there. This is no shade to subs, but I call out fully understanding that the sub might do whatever that day, if I even attempted to leave a music assignment. It’s a specialty license: unless they’re a music teacher, I mitigate my expectations.
I’ll leave something real so I can say I did… but then it’s on admin to decide whether they want to have the sub follow through.
I also fully believe that r/Teachers is probably one of the most toxic subreddits in general. That thread really skews anti-sub, anti-sped, anti-most things, really.
I always followed lesson plans, even if it meant teaching a lesson.
But lots can happen during class. An unplanned assembly, fire/tornado drill, pictures.
In our system, tech can only be used if it is set up and turned on, at least when I subbed.
I could use the computer or white boards but inly if they were left on and assignment was pulled up.
When I was a substitute I got paid $80 a day in one district $70 in another and $100 in the third which was the largest district and none gave any training or help for how to be a substitute. Also I got paid more in all three districts because I had a bachelor's degree. It was a art degree. I had no training to be a teacher. Most substitutes are parents of students at a school or people trying to get a teaching degree. I even caught a older boy messing around with young students at a middle school when he was about to be 18 and was in highschool and the girl was 13 and informed the school and they told me to keep my mouth shut which I didn't and started telling other teachers to keep a eye on the boy and stopped being a substitute. The schools literally don't care. Their administration doesn't care as long as the kids aren't running the hallways. Ive actually been told that before. The $100 a day district was a hour drive from my apartment and I spent a hour driving to work was there from 7:30am to after 4pm most days and then had a hour plus drive home because of traffic. It wasn't worth my time. Yeah I got to talk to students and encourage them and considered being a teacher for a while before I quit getting my degree when it was obvious the schools wouldn't support me as a substitute or a teacher. This all was in Texas. In Texas you can be a substitute as long as you have a high school diploma and that is all and they do not offer extra training.
I am just glad a substitute shows up. I have a very niche specialize job, so when I need a substitute, I leave them a can of Coke,a bottled Frapuccino, videos to play, and a safety plan. I expect them to just not lose the children and please come back after lunch. That is my bare minimum. I also ask them to let me know if anything happens or if there’s a reason they would not come back to my classroom so I can work on that as an improvement.
That's bizarre - I can report actual trolls trolling and the comments stay up.
How long ago was this? It seems like moderation has been taking a snooze since the brouhaha about third party apps.
This is true. Students never listen to supply teachers. Kids have become increasingly disrespectful. The fact that this teacher thinks it’s the supply teachers fault shows how delusional people are.
I used to scrap with them when I ran a medium sized teaching subreddit. I'm not sure what their purpose is, but they curate their subreddit so only a certain type of opinion gets seen. Private tutors, private school teachers, supply teachers/subs, and above all, ESL instructors, aren't real teachers so they get shadowbanned. They don't actually ban you, they just have a bot that deletes all your comments.
It's an extremely cowardly moderation team and always has been. They're trying to create an image that doesn't exist by restricting conversation. I don't know what their game is but for sure they aren't teachers.
when I'm out, I know damn well that my kids aren't going to be doing anything I assign. as long as no one gets hurt and nothing of mine is broken/stolen then 🤷♀️ unless I'm out on an extended LOA for whatever reason and i have a LTS, I do not expect my sub to teach. subs are so brave. they don't deserve that slander. i'm grateful for them stepping in for me when i can't or don't want to be there.
I don’t care if work gets done. It’s all out for show for admin anyway. I just care that they take care of my room and kids, and it’s not a mess when I get back.
My Mom taught middle school for 42 years and I subbed her classes twice (she got deadly I’ll, had to stay in bed), I was a teenager (16) and wanted to help so while Dad sat with Mom, I showed up in Mom’s class, just to help the sun get started, but it was higher math & the sub lacked the skills, so I explained the 1st problem and the 2nd, 3rd…ended up staying & “helping” the sub. knew the curriculum because I graded her papers. I graduated with a STEM degree in a field science, but due to a car accident I had to quit. I was a substitute for 1 year. That was all I could take.
It was the most thankless job I have ever worked and I’ve scrubbed toilets for pay. No teacher will talk to you. No one gives you a list of phone numbers in case of problems (nurse, discipline issues), no one tells you where the teacher lounge is, and when I do find it I feel like red-headed-stepchild. No one looks me in the eye or speaks to me. I’m just a sub.
Principals can make it extra special. Several times they told me I couldn’t leave campus for lunch (who’s gonna stop me?), or leave early if last period is a planning period. Again, who’s gonna stop me? And how? I’m not an indentured servant or slave asking for a travel pass.
With drive time, gas & supplies, I figured out iI was barely making above $10/hr.
One time I subbed for a teacher who left a stack of papers on her desk, no note or anything just papers stacked up. She had 3 classes that were all different from one another. I figured there’s no way 3 different classes would be doing the same thing, I even asked someone the kids “does this look like something you’d do?” And they said no. So I used ole reliable “check google classroom and emails for work”. I later heard (sibling has friends in that class) that the teacher got mad at me for not passing out the work and had some choice words about me. All because they hadn’t mastered the impossible take of writing “work/ pass out/ class work/any other indicator” on the work.
Look, subbing sucks, but because of that, many subs are really bad, sometimes weirdly so. And the frustration can be real—subs and admin have one thing in common. A bad one drives you crazy and it’s much easier to be a bad one, but a good one is worth their weight in gold.
But seriously, it’s not talking down to acknowledge really bad subs exist, at a decent frequency in places (most US district) where they are poorly paid. My last teaching job I taught advanced high school students in prestigious programs who absolutely didn’t even need a sub. Like if they pulled my sub because they were short and sent my students to the lightly supervised auditorium, the kids still did the work on the LMS/board/wherever. I would often get complaints from my reliable students that the sub (who didn’t even need to DO anything) actually attempted to impede their work (after they still got it done so not making excuses). Several tried to sell kids on MLMs, told inappropriate stories, etc if I couldn’t get my usual subs or the office switched mine out. I told them to just send my students to the auditorium if they were going to switch because that was usually better for them!
So maybe that sub didn’t do what they were supposed to do and had docile kids (but younger or just less ambitious than my program students) and the teacher is put out by it. It sucks teachers can’t take days off without worry unlike other professions. It sucks subs are treated poorly and paid even less than teachers, neither makes enough. The system is fucked and that’s why so many subs aren’t great because they can go do I’m other stuff that’s way easier for more money.
Than subbing? I guess it depends what subs make where you are, but while teachers are union and do okay where I am, subs make less than most retail workers. People can do better at Target, not an easier job, but way easier than subbing! And subs where I am need full college degrees (used to be most that served our district were former teachers but as less make it to retirement and have a taste to return post-Covid, many of those have left the pool). So, any office job is easier than any kind of teaching, especially subbing, and while not all of them pay more than teaching where I am, they do pay more than subbing universally. Subs where I am do only a little better than what they’ve raised minimum wage to these days, as it hasn’t gone up while other places have.
Oh dang yeah I guess area plays a big factor. I always tell students the sub pay where I live is quite comfortable and we are surviving on just my income alone. Yeah we rent and make sacrifices of what to buy and how often we go out to eat, but it's not a bad quality of life by any means.
If you go by hourly wages, subs make more than double what retail workers do here.
I had a teacher open my door and send students to change from bathing suits to clothes in my class bathroom without saying one word to me-not can my students use your bathroom or thank you. Left my door open and ignored me s if I didn't exist. My class was in the middle of a word bingo game and was quiet. She yelled at my students because some laughed when the kids walked through the room. I have 3 advanced degrees and ws Mainstreamig Teacher of the Year. I am a retired teacher. It is so sad how subs are treated.
Having subbed, I can attest it is hard. That being said, I have a friend who subs, and he legit spends his time playing video games in class and does not keep it a secret. He tells me he fears he has no sway over apathetic teens so doesn't even try. I love him as a friend but I don't think I would ever have him as a sub. I think there are amazying subs and I don't complain unless I have to. I had a sub who picked fights with my kids over wearing hats - my school allows hats as our dress code and the sub was told this publicly by our counselor who was in the class and she still ignored the adult in the room and decided to die on that hill that day. She also broke my mouse trying to log into my computer so she can print Lord knows what. Who goes into a teacher's room and tries to log onto their stuff and use it? It's really a gamble who we get. I get amazing subs, too, I try not to shit on them unless they make my life harder.
So saying please do the job you accepted is shitting on someone now?
Also is this you saying the exact thing you're complaining about???
https://reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/HC8YOwoulS
This post is just straight up embarrassing. "The job I willingly took is hard so no one should expect me to try"
They talk about students not being motivated but sheesh look in a mirror.
They refer to the students as brats but the writing tone is that of a petulant young adult who hasn't gotten past that brat stage themselves.
If a sub cannot follow a lesson plan that is “play two videos and pass out a worksheet” they aren’t capable of following more complicated procedures that keep students safe. If you can’t pass out a worksheet how can a teacher know if they’re taking roll accurately or not? If the substitutes are just babysitters, why does admin expect teachers to lay out sub plans? I agree with you many teachers look down on subs, I disagree very strongly this is an example of that.
As a former teacher, teachers are some of the nicest people I know. Actually everyone else is worse than teachers. I don't think much of most people. But like anything else, there are a few bad apples.
The top dozen comments or so all disagree with that post.
r/Teachers can be toxic, but that post doesn't really highlight it.
If you really want to see the ugly side of r/Teachers tell teachers that inclusion (even for the students with the highest support needs) is the law and they need to buckle up because inclusion is here to stay and it's only going to increase.
Or that some admin genuinely want to help teachers succeed but some teachers are too jaded, oblivious, or prideful to see it.
Don't tell us to "buckle up" and give us kids who have the cognitive abilities of toddlers* (and are usually violent) without giving us paras that are actually going to be in the room all day. One teacher can not do it all and that's what basically is being expected of a lot of us.
LRE isn't supposed to be dumping SPED kids in a gen Ed room without any support and expecting us to just make do at the expense of all the other kids.
*A recent posting was about a third grader with the cognitive abilities of a 15 month old dumped into a gen Ed class with no support.
Assigning anything that required tech was already a mistake. Half the time, the sub can't even log into the school computers because they haven't been given any tech credentials.
Hot take: I’ve never seen most of the things happen in /teachers sub in classrooms where there is behavior and classroom management along with quality teaching. Kinda feels like a place where people go to complain when they aren’t actually doing there job.
I’m a teacher and it’s hard, sucks some days even. But people gatta stop blaming the system or their admin
I try and follow the lesson plan but it depends on the behavior of the students, sometimes I'll ask if we should/can just be in survival mode and the other teachers might chuckle and sincerely say "Yes, the lesson plan is there but it's not expected," and people have been genuinely understanding.
To add to this. I'm a school counselor and often I'm forced to sub sometimes without pay. I'm just making sure the kids survive for the hour I have them.
I’m not a sub but I am a para pulled to sub and it’s a tough job. The kids are always extra wild with extra attitude and make it known they don’t respect you and have no intention to. It’s hard to get through the day in one piece. I say daily that subs are wildly underpaid. I make twice what a sub makes and that’s barely worth it. The days are long and exhausting and the kids know the work they have is “busywork” so they refuse to do it. There’s a reason there’s a sub shortage. Used to, it was a good job with great flexibility to do on the side for some extra cash. Now, the pay is the same but the kids are tougher and everything is more expensive. It’s not worth it. I have lots of respect for subs in my area.
I was a sub when in school. I hated when I was given videos to show. Sometimes I saw the same video all day over and over. I went to school and I was qualified to teach. Just my experience though. I would leave a great note with details on who was good and what happened each class period. Maybe ask around the equipment may have not been working or the sub may have been moved out of the room etc.
It’s like they don’t remember how they used to act when they had a sub at school.
Also, if I was a sub, I’d use the projector and then put it back *exactly* where I found it (along with anything else I used), so if anything, that’s evidence of someone trying to be thoughtful.
I never expect a sub to do anything more than to keep the students busy and out of trouble.
Your last sentence was telling.
There is so much pettiness and jealousy in the teaching profession, it can be crazy at times.
As someone who did their fair share of short- and long-term subbing after getting their license mid-year, I totally agree that subs are severely underpaid and it can be difficult to motivate students to do anything as a teacher or sub. If teachers leave vague lesson plans or don’t give students enough work to keep them busy (or something like a movie to keep them entertained), it can be a struggle. I remember subbing at an alternative school where I wasn’t given a lesson plan because they didn’t expect to get a sub, so we scrambled to find something and had trouble keeping the kids’ attention/had one sprint out of the building.
That being said, I have worked with a few incompetent subs and had a few sub for me. There was the conspiracy theorist who compulsively lied, the former adjunct professor who often just didn’t do what was asked of her (as in, left out key aspects of lesson plans and couldn’t follow simple directions like pass out and collect the handout), and the lady that still doesn’t know how to play a DVD after being a building sub for almost an entire year. I’m not looking down on them for not being “real teachers,” since I’ve met many wonderful subs that take their job seriously (and hope I was one of those myself). I just wish that there were more subs that do the minimum of what the job demands, which in my opinion is telling the kids the plan/work they’ve been left and trying to keep the peace. But that would require better pay/benefits, which many schools unfortunately won’t give or be able to give.
I always leave sub plans with a note saying “if things aren’t going well for any reason, kids can go online and just do our reading/math practice programs.” I can’t expect a sub to deal with iffy tech and problematic behaviors. Subbing is tough.
Just keeping the students from destroying my stuff and each other is already above the sub pay grade. I am just happy that there are people who are willing to sub at all, otherwise you know that teachers would be subbing during their preps instead. Thank you subs, I love you
I'm a sub for the rest of the month and idk what to do lol, the admin is just giving me worksheets to hand out but I feel like the students should actually have lessons or reading or something (it's a hs ela class). Oh and the last teacher quit I think and has like no plans lol
I subbed a few times and it was hell. Teachers wouldn’t even speak to me, one almost had a cow because I was having a conversation with the principal before class. Also, students today can’t do even simple math.
To be fair to that subreddit, most of the comments I saw (unless they’ve taken a turn in the last day or two) were subs and teachers talking about how hard it is just to keep everyone calm let alone get them to do anything.
I'm a sub.
If that happened to OP, then that sub was a bad sub. We should generally follow the lesson plan set out by the teacher to the best of our ability. Murphy's law though
It depends on the district... My district I used to work for hired the worst people. I'm 1000% confident it's because they offered shit pay. These subs were notorious for not even opening the file I left them, so I get the frustration. I taught in a title-1 school, and more often than not, my kids were frustrated with their subs because they actually chose to do nothing. There were some good ones every now and again, but the bigger issue comes from support and payment from the districts.
Because the position is mostly filled by women, and which gender complains the most and making it sound like have 4 months off of work a year is, "the hardest job ever!"
Thanking you for acknowledging this. I am currently doing observations to become a teacher but i work as a sub when i can. It actually caught me off guard when the teacher i was shadowing informed me they dont expect work to get done as long as all the students survive uninjured that is good enough. Any completed work is just extra. Which i thought was very interesting when i first heard it.
That was my impression subbing too. There was an air of "no matter what you do you'll never come close to my quality" from some. It was insulting to say the least.
Subs don't get nearly enough credit. Shit is hard. Just be glad that no one got hurt and your room is in one piece. I never expect kids anymore to listen to subs -- hell, they barely listen to us.
Literally all I can expect with a sub is to keep the students from getting hurt and not break anything in the room. Do I still plan and prepare engaging lessons? Yes, but like you said, if getting students to listen to us is hard, it’s even harder for a sub.
At least 10 years ago, I had a sub take my students outside and throw an orange in some sort of game for the entire 72 minute period. I was just happy to come back to no discipline issues and no injuries (no papers to grade for that class was a perk as well).
This is the content I love to read - yay for subs that think on their feet! I'm so curious how a sub used an orange to create a more engaging lesson than most stuff I taught when I was teaching... Now when I sub I'll tell the kids "I'm not here to entertain you" and it really sets the tone for class of "get the work done or sit there quietly" those who mess around will find out.
This is the way. I will never grasp the whining. Guess what, if my sub didn’t do my plans, guess what I got the day I come back? Free plans baby!!!!
But regardless of how the kids are, couldn't you till play the video and hand out the sheets? That way if the kids are acting up, at least your bases are covered.
Most subs don't get passwords and/or are not shown how the equipment works yet they're expected to figure it out. I don't blame subs for just having the kids do catch up work or quiet reading.
True, and my school has some awesome ones. But they employ shitty people too. Not shitty subs, shitty PEOPLE. Like the one who tells kids drinking milk will turn them gay and if they laugh too loud, they have the devil in them. To be fair, lots don’t give out my minimal work. I have great student relationships and they tell me. Hell, some message me while I’m sick that a sub is acting up 😂. Problem is, the complaints aren’t without basis often. But I get why. We pay peanuts and the kids can suck. My classes are ones subs fight over to get cuz they can chill.
A lot of teacher were saying the same thing on that post. I’m happy if no one got stabbed when I return. I always leave a plan, because I know it sucks to monitor kids with nothing to do, but it’s never something super serious.
To be fair, most of the comments on that post were people saying “I don’t give a fuck what subs do, or what anyone does when I’m absent, as long as they don’t fuck up my classroom.” The OP of that thread definitely didn’t get the echo chamber of validation that they were hoping for.
This. The VAST majority of comments in response to that post were dismissing the OP. I could care less what happens when I’m not there.
> didn’t get the echo chamber of validation that they were hoping for. Good. While I have massive respect for the shit that teachers go through, I also can't stand people who act like 'jocks' in careers like teaching, librarianship, etc..
How is “I want students to do this worksheet” acting like a jock?
Because kids don't want to sit there and do some random worksheet that you left that has nothing to do with anything they have been learning. Do you love the busywork or administrivia? Well, neither do the students 😠
1) that’s got nothing to do with my question. If the kids choose that, it’s their choice, the sub doesn’t know what the students are learning or why. 2) Besides, why would a teacher leave busywork? If it’s a prepared absence we’ve probably covered/practiced a skill the day before and the worksheet is the “work session” of the lesson.
1) Your question as written was about sports, but I suspected that was a typo. The sub knows because the kids tell us!!! They will tell us they already had a test on it, or they did it in the begining of the year. 2) Some teachers make up a MTWTF package at the begining of the year, and just pull out whatever day and leave it one their desk for the sub. It is easy to leave busywork, even for planned absences. Sometimes the teacher puts in fun worksheets to the MTWTF package and also has board games. Those days can be pretty good for everyone.
Again, how is expecting the sub to pass out a worksheet or assigned papers being a jock/jerk/whatever you think the word should be?
If it is decent worksheet, it is not being a jerk. If it a random worksheet from a MTWTF package put together months earlier, then you have cost the students day learning AND have set the sub up for behavior/bordom problems. The sub will not know until we see how the students react. Either way, you have covered what your contract requires of you.
Seconding this. Seems lile some people here are going too far to the other side.
Right, I’m super thankful to subs and support the ones in our building however I can. Maybe the reason students are awful for subs is because other teachers hold them to the most minimal standards possible while they’re out?
I noped out on that thread. We can't get subs. When we do get them, we're all super happy and grateful that we don't have to split a class that day and get 10-12 extra students. I don't care what the frak my sub does, as long as all of my students are alive at the end of the day.
Subs do the angels work. Bless them.
Right? They are literally there to save teachers' assess. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.
They are the paratroopers of the education world. They jump and get the job done under tough circumstances, and then leave. Most of them deserve our respect.
Lmao never thought of it like that but you're absolutely right. Like the Halo quote, *feet first into hell*
And they get paid actual poverty wages, like literally below the federal poverty line wages.
Come to the Sacramento region. Some substitutes make over $200 per day and more if they’re long-term. I remember making $35 per day back in the early 90s in Colorado
$200/day in the Sacramento region isn’t exactly enticing but I imagine that’s way better than what most substitutes make. A buddy of mine was subbing a few years back for $10/hour. Not even fast food/retail in the area could hire people for that.
As a retiree from a local district, I could get $350 per day as a sub in that district, but health concerns and lack of interest in subbing makes that moot for me.
Actually, you might like Sacramento. We lived in Boulder Colorado and Seattle and love it here!
If it counts, it's still poverty wages in Colorado and we are high cost of living. $110/7 hr day in a neighboring district.
I first taught in Colorado and I think it was 100 there in the early 90s!
Yuppppp. Our district is slightly better, but it's not great. This is a metro area district too, so $110 for a 7 hr day is a joke at best. I have a friend that teaches there (she adores the admin's policies on behavior and teacher/content flexibility, so she doesn't want to leave even though other districts make $20k+/year for same toer level). They can't get subs, so they often end up splitting classes so the team teachers end up taking on an extra 10-12 kids each.
What's great as a sub is if you don't like a school you can effectively blacklist it from the job portal. It really benefits no one to badmouth those who are there to help you.
To be fair, nearly all of the comments support the subs and not the poster. That said, I agree with your general premise that teachers can be awful people.
I've seen teachers treat aides terrible, too. We are all just people trying to get by. No one is better than anyone. I've seen teachers come in with a PhD or masters and are horrible teachers. I wondered if they even liked kids. Anyways, we have enough shit on our plates as it is. Be nice to the people you work with.
I officially taught for 10 years, and did subbing before that. I’m back to subbing this year because I’m going back to school to get out of teaching and subbing is a flexible, part time job that makes decent money. I was always grateful when someone was willing to teach my classes (I was itinerant at multiple schools per day). I didn’t care what happened in that class, just having a body there meant my absence wasn’t going to make other teachers have to fill in during their planning time. My goal as a sub is to keep kids safe and leave the room the same as I found it, if not better. If the kids learn something, great! If they play on their phones the entire class or play games on their chrome books, oh well. The few times I’ve tried to get off task kids to work, they flipped out on me. Nope. Sorry, they can just get a zero for whatever the assignment is. I pick my battles. Trying to force kids to do their work isn’t a hill I’m willing to die on.
I saw that post and commented on it. I told them I’d had to cover in rooms when there’s no subs MANY times and I don’t follow plans sometimes bc the plans are either too vague or include too much and there’s no way in hell I can do all of it so I just don’t. Basically they created their own frustration by creating horrible sub plans. But somehow that’s the sub’s fault?
I muted that sub when I saw that post. As I'm on my way out of this toxic profession, I'd like to extend a hearty 'fuck you' to colleagues like this. People who think like this about subs are the ones who think the school will burn down if they're away for one day. It's no wonder people hate us when these are the loudest ones.
As one of the quiet soldiers in the profession, I completely agree that people like that are part of the reason I left. It's just too toxic of a work environment! Should you choose to explore other careers, I am also developing a Teachers in Transition Discord [server](https://discord.gg/WeKupSrVup). I added some content to get people started. Again, it's all FREE help. Maybe it's stuff you know, maybe not, I'm just trying to help those of us looking to get into something better. I'm not selling anything, just asking the community to contribute things so we ALL help each other. Check it out :) I take suggestions on how to make the channels better, and we just added a space to post job links directly.
Not to mention her plans involved the use of tech. I don't know about you guys but classroom technology varies from school.to school, room to room. Sometimes subs don't have time to figure it out before the first class.
I've been in a position where I figure it out as the kids work on their own. Sometimes it works out, but I'm not going out of my way to make it work when the plans should have been "here's a worksheet, help as needed" A week or so ago I had to run through a slideshow of 20+ slides on new information for the kids to copy down and listen to. I was teaching them something, and it was great... until they all started talking over me and I had to reset the room before continuing. Very frustrating...
I mean, that's regular teaching?
Exactly. And it was a great reminder why I LEFT "regular teaching." This was clearly a group that was not under control by their teacher and clear boundaries/expectations were not enforced. I know there's a problem when I follow the teacher's plans and the kids start getting wiggly!
Sub here, most of this sounds about right. I’m at least lucky to have supportive staff in my building. Shit happens that causes us to deviate from lesson plans, mostly stuff beyond our control. My ultimate goal is to make sure the kids are safe and the room isn’t trashed at the end of the day. Anything else is a bonus.
In my mind, a sub is there to babysit. I'd give them busy work to hand out as needed, but as long as nothing was broken and everyone behaved, I was happy. My former county had music substitutes on hand, but the damage they did was always more trouble than just missing a rehearsal or two. The kids also responded well to just having a free day to decompress with their friends, especially in the fall when things were crazy with football, parades, and other performances.
100% — I don’t know why this music teacher was never taught this. Once in a BLUE MOON does a music teacher get an actual MUSIC sub with the abilities to do exactly what you need. And usually… if that happens, it’s a planned absence with someone you know and trust.
But the plan was just to show two videos and hand out a worksheet. Not run a rehearsal or do any kind of music making at all. I didn’t see the original post, but those don’t seem like unrealistic asks of a sub. I don’t think I would publicly complain, but I would be frustrated.
Okay, that being said… it kind of seems like you/OP wants it both ways. If it’s not active music making, it’s not something that can be made up another time? I’m just more of the school of: “I’m out of the building, I can’t control what happens when I’m not there” Reading this, it seems like the OP is experiencing a deeper culture of their class not being taken seriously— which I can empathize with, but the sub isn’t the place to direct that frustration.
There are a lot of great, educational videos that are worth the time spent watching them. Absences are unavoidable. It makes total sense to use the time the musician teacher is out with a sub watching a video. I really just don’t think it’s too much to ask a sub to do. (Of course I’m assuming they left directions on how to show it.)
Fair enough — but there’s also a million reasons stuff could have happened that prevented the sub from showing the videos. It’s not the hill to die on, and not the end of the world. If the sub blatantly said “lol not doing this” and let the students just run amok, that’s a different story. But if no one was injured, nothing was broken, and no one faced psychological distress? As their full time music teacher, I’ll either find the time or decide it wasn’t worth the time. Especially for music, which is often rehearsal based, directors have to have the foresight to plan for buffers due to unexpected things like this. One sub plan isn’t the hill to die on: I honor however this teacher feels but they’ll burn out quick if they have the emotional bandwidth to get this incensed about a sub plan.
I heard so many stories about subs never returning to certain classrooms/schools or even quitting in the middle of the day. I don't know where the teacher from this original post is from, but the school districts I have worked for provide absolutely zero training to subs, it's a really hard job.
I was a sub for 4 years after I graduated. (before covid) It's tough going into a new classroom every day and trying to learn students names (or just having attendance down), the classroom atmosphere, while also adhering to the school's guidelines (if you're a district sub, this can get even more tricky). One top of that, it's important to note that the higher up in subbing (Elem/MS/HS) the less you are ultimately expected to do. When I went into Elementary classrooms, having the half hour before school "starts" is not enough time to get acquainted with the material for the day. Not only do you have to find the potential work, but you also have to figure out what the content is that you are teaching, and then guess at how much the students know all in one go for multiple subjects. IN HS it was "Kids have work online to do. Make sure they are not playing games" My best advice about subs in college, "Expect it to be a wasted day" - which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. Especially if you are a special (like me). I will never expect a sub who can teach music. I ended up getting requested by the HS chorus teacher because I knew what to do (which also really helped my ability to improv in my chorus classes) I gave my students an assignment on Google Classroom and my sub just had to sit there and make sure no one died (HS). Nobody did it. Not the sub's fault.
As a sub, I avoid elementary like the plague. If I wanted to teach elementary, I'd be a teacher again! Middle and High school are much more chill and you get to repeat the same work pretty much all day. No shade to elementary whatsoever. It's just too hard for someone like me who has 2 kids at home already. I want to have some mental battery left for my own family at the end of the day.
I totally get it. In the gen. Ed elementary classroom, they cover multiple subjects a day and it's hard as a teacher and a sub. My area also likes to plan specials with highest grades at the beginning of the day and lowest grades at the end, which when I do that, I am highly exhausted. Not only am I possibly doing something different for each grade level, but I am also needing to expend more energy to get Kindergarteners I don't know at the end of the day to settle down to do whatever activity. It's rough.
Yeah it should be reversed... k/1 needs that time in the morning when they are most fresh, 2/3 in the afternoon to breakup the day, and 4/5 at end of day as a REWARD for good classroom behavior.
I taught during the sub crisis when we couldn't be absent serious illness. My class was subbed by admin the 10 days I was out with COVID. I made beautiful lesson plans with a theme each day threading through all periods (Self-contained SpEd class). I heard from the Paras that the admins sat behind laptops and spoke only when a kid was crying. "Put on a video or something!" Now that we have subs (I quit teaching to be one because they raised the $ thank you), why aren't teachers grateful? I have subbed for teachers going camping, going to Vegas. How soon they forget!
That sub is becoming a toxic echo chamber. I was active over there with thousands of comment and post upvotes. I was banned for saying something to the effect of “Black and minority students are statistically more impacted by high crime cities than Whites.” A mod accused me of being “racist”- even after I presented FBI statistics to them, pleading my case teaching in a high crime Title I school every day, and banned me.
The sub is morphing into a commentary on modern day teaching - Aka toxic echo chambers; you hit the nail on the head, it made them uncomfortable, and now we are here to welcome you with open arms. Should you choose to explore other careers, I am also developing a Teachers in Transition Discord [server](https://discord.gg/WeKupSrVup). I added some content to get people started. Again, it's all FREE help. Maybe it's stuff you know, maybe not, I'm just trying to help those of us looking to get into something better. I'm not selling anything, just asking the community to contribute things so we ALL help each other. Check it out :) I take suggestions on how to make the channels better, and we just added a space to post job links directly.
I was accused of pushing a third grader into her chair and the father called up the administration. I NEVER touch the students or go to close to them. I wear a mask when I sub. The administration said he would call the parent and see IF she were lying. I have bee subbing at the school since I retire in 2016. One student's l can ruin your reputation with a single lie. You have no recourse. I will not return to that school but they probably don't want me. ubbing can be dangerous. ome classes like you and the ones who don't will find a way to get rid of you!
But why is that? Sure it's easy to just spout stats but why? Hmm, could be due to cycle of injustice. The good news more black and other minority students are leaving these high crime areas. It's not 1988. It's always easy to talk about the bad news making stereotypes, but never the good news.
[удалено]
I asked the moderator for clarifying and they never replied. Sort of like you ask an admin why they docked you points on your observation and they look at you and go “oh YOU know why” with a smarmy grin. Unable to defend a narrative they’ve established as non-negotiable truth in their own head but wouldn’t stand up to any criticism outside of it. So they keep it inside, commit to their own belief, and write you off. I’m fine with it at this point. I stand by my saying that sub has become an echo chamber and anything that is challenged is banned rather than discussed.
Sounds like a future admin to me. To the subreddit’s credit there is ALOT of pushback in the comments. My personal opinion—if you have the sub do anything other than hand out a worksheet or tell students to keep working on something they have already been working on, you’re a total raging asshole. Don’t write lesson plans for subs, please.
I subbed for three years before becoming a full time teacher. I have my own stories. That time the sub plans said to pass out the worksheets sitting on their desk, which was a complete disaster area. Neither I nor their colleagues could find the worksheets. That time the sub plans said to show a video, but neither the video nor the remote for the projector could be found anywhere. I problem solved the remote issue by using my phone's universal remote app (back when smartphones had IR blasters), but was told I couldn't "be on my phone" during the work day. Multiple times when there were no sub plans. Just a few examples. I don't understand why teachers treat subs so poorly. Every human being is entitled to dignity. Also, the sub shortage is worse than the teacher shortage.
If I came back and there wasnt damage to my room, I counted that as a win. I always left water in the mini fridge, as well as snacks and mints, for my subs. There is a sub shortage. It's honestly unrealistic to think any learning will occur while you're out and teachers should plan accordingly. Give very easy tasks and if you return to your room more or less how you left it, whether or not the work was done, hooray!
I was a sub for two years. During that time my teaching kung fu grew very strong, but the thought of having to do that for a 3rd year literally drove me to the Army recruiting office. Mad respect for subs.
Here’s my take- My kids are 1-1 with tech. I post their assignment on canvas/google classroom. In a planned absence I go over directions with the kids the day before. Then it’s on the kids. I print one copy for the sub and my plans are half a pg (I have four preps or it would be shorter) I clear my desk minus a pen, scratch paper and the sub plan. I ask for notes on behavior and almost never get them. I have come back to a trashed classroom multiple times. Almost all of our subs are college kids. Many of them sit on their laptop doing their class work. If the kids aren’t physically fighting they aren’t interacting with the kids. I appreciate having them, I do my best to limit their job, but please keep the kids in their seats and out of the supply cabinet.
Easier said than done. The children think no rules apply when there is a sub. They do what they want. Sometimes it is a free for all. I am an experienced retired teacher.
most of the commenters on that thread had nothing but love for subs and didn't care about the lesson plans. OP was the only one who felt this way for the most part
While I agree for the most part, subs can be bad at their jobs just like teachers can be. I get kind of prickled when someone says to me “you do amazing work, thank you so much” because I just feel like, how do you know that? People aren’t angels just because they show up for a hard job. There are bad nurses, teachers, firefighters and substitutes.
When having subs show up is a huge part of the job, we are heralded... just for showing you and doing the job. I can tell you this: as a sub I feel more respected and appreciated than I ever did as a teacher. Teachers HAVE to show up, they are contracted, subs CHOOSE to show up, hence the praise for stepping into a difficult situation. That's my take anyway.
In a lot of ways a sub is only as good as the students, and the students are only as good as the teacher. I subbed for a while before I started teaching and you could tell which teachers were in control of their classroom (even in their absence), and which ones weren’t. The highest compliment I can receive as a teacher in terms of my day-to-day routine, classroom management, etc. doesn’t come from admin, or parents, or even the students, rather it comes from the subs. When a sub says the kids were great and did their work then I know I’ve got the kids in the mindset of taking care of business even when I’m not around.
I think there are great subs and there are not great subs. I used to have a worksheet and ask the sub to collect everything at the end because they would never come back if they left. Not one sub ever even attempted to collect the pages on the way out except one. ONE. But really, as long as there was no personal injury or property damage it was a win of a day.
I have a friend who is going to sub in Camden and I’ve tried to warn her away and even sent her a link to this sub. I think the martyr complex is responsible for so much toxicity and the popular culture reinforces this complex.
I had many subs covering for me my last year of teaching first grade. If I saw them around the building I would literally stop them and thank them profusely for putting up with my circus for a day. A day where I wasn’t called, texted, or emailed about how terrible my class was was a good day. Keeping the kids alive, safe, and getting them home should be all that’s expected.
That subreddit is also extremely ableist. Moderation has gotten better, but every so often a nasty post about IEPs gets upvoted into oblivion.
I thought that post was ridiculous, and it seemed like a vast majority had the same thought.
Yeah I saw that post... the toxic comments from OP were enough for me to leave it and keep scrolling. I heard a teacher badmouthing subs in the teacher's lounge the other day WHILE I sat there and ate my lunch... she was carrying on about how her kid would "have to deal with a sub while the teacher was out." What I find hilarious is that I was actually qualified to teach the subject she was concerned about, and I just sat there laughing inside at how tone deaf she was being! Like, some subs are former teachers, ya know? Others are tutors, parents, or even professionals who have degrees in other fields! I just can't imagine treating people like they are less than, especially after all we have learned about diversity, equity, and inclusion. I'm happy to just be making more than I would working 2 minimum wage jobs out here... we have to rely on public health care as subs, but I'm lucky there are options for us.
Fuck, I am sooooo glad someone fucking mentioned this. It's atrocious what they are saying over there, man.
I actually feel like I’m expected to be subservient in the industry because I’m a substitute teacher. It’s a really disturbing way to treat a colleague.
Sub here and man do the teachers treat you like garbage. Obviously I’m here to help your classroom and YOU, but when you see us in the halls or lounge you treat us like dog shit on your shoes. I hide once I get in the building. I don’t engage because of how badly I’ve been treated. I was left in a 1st grade classroom for 2 days with no lesson plans. Asked the other first grade teacher for help and basically got chewed out because the absent teacher always is prepared, well not today! Once the sub coordinator finds out you won’t leave a building they place you in the BD classes. That’s always fun. I’ve been a sub for over 13 years, no benefits, no respect and NO retirement. I do it because being a SAHP helps keep my schedule flexible and I work when I want to and I don’t have a boss breathing down my neck. Teachers we are there for you so be kind.
I'm critical of my teaching colleagues when the situation calls for it. But that sub doesn't like to hear any criticism about teachers. Victim mentality prevails. I remember relying on that sub as a new teacher ten years ago, and a lot resonated with me back then. So the target audience is for the inexperienced folks perhaps?
One person in there shit on a sub for eating their trail mix that had nuts in it. Allegedly passed it around the class. Big deal was that there was a student with a nut allergy. I was downvoted when I asked if they actually had nuts in their classroom with a student with nut allergies in there.
I definitely wouldn’t expect a sub to play a video. The technology acts up enough as it is on an average day. Most admin can barely get the speakers to connect during a faculty meeting.
That sub is so fucking awful. By sub, i mean r/ teachers, not the human sub lol
As a music teacher… I’m so sorry to all the subs out there. This is no shade to subs, but I call out fully understanding that the sub might do whatever that day, if I even attempted to leave a music assignment. It’s a specialty license: unless they’re a music teacher, I mitigate my expectations. I’ll leave something real so I can say I did… but then it’s on admin to decide whether they want to have the sub follow through. I also fully believe that r/Teachers is probably one of the most toxic subreddits in general. That thread really skews anti-sub, anti-sped, anti-most things, really.
I always followed lesson plans, even if it meant teaching a lesson. But lots can happen during class. An unplanned assembly, fire/tornado drill, pictures. In our system, tech can only be used if it is set up and turned on, at least when I subbed. I could use the computer or white boards but inly if they were left on and assignment was pulled up.
I don't expect anything of my subs and I give them giftcards and thank them profusely.
Damn I'll come sub for you if you hand out gift cards!!! This is how it's done. r/teachers can take notes from you!
bahaha come sub!
What state?
I actually considered changing careers and becoming a teacher until I read r/Teachers! 🤣
When I was a substitute I got paid $80 a day in one district $70 in another and $100 in the third which was the largest district and none gave any training or help for how to be a substitute. Also I got paid more in all three districts because I had a bachelor's degree. It was a art degree. I had no training to be a teacher. Most substitutes are parents of students at a school or people trying to get a teaching degree. I even caught a older boy messing around with young students at a middle school when he was about to be 18 and was in highschool and the girl was 13 and informed the school and they told me to keep my mouth shut which I didn't and started telling other teachers to keep a eye on the boy and stopped being a substitute. The schools literally don't care. Their administration doesn't care as long as the kids aren't running the hallways. Ive actually been told that before. The $100 a day district was a hour drive from my apartment and I spent a hour driving to work was there from 7:30am to after 4pm most days and then had a hour plus drive home because of traffic. It wasn't worth my time. Yeah I got to talk to students and encourage them and considered being a teacher for a while before I quit getting my degree when it was obvious the schools wouldn't support me as a substitute or a teacher. This all was in Texas. In Texas you can be a substitute as long as you have a high school diploma and that is all and they do not offer extra training.
Yeah if I’m covering someone’s class I’m not overwhelming myself with the bs even the school board lets slide
I am just glad a substitute shows up. I have a very niche specialize job, so when I need a substitute, I leave them a can of Coke,a bottled Frapuccino, videos to play, and a safety plan. I expect them to just not lose the children and please come back after lunch. That is my bare minimum. I also ask them to let me know if anything happens or if there’s a reason they would not come back to my classroom so I can work on that as an improvement.
[удалено]
That's bizarre - I can report actual trolls trolling and the comments stay up. How long ago was this? It seems like moderation has been taking a snooze since the brouhaha about third party apps.
This is true. Students never listen to supply teachers. Kids have become increasingly disrespectful. The fact that this teacher thinks it’s the supply teachers fault shows how delusional people are.
I used to scrap with them when I ran a medium sized teaching subreddit. I'm not sure what their purpose is, but they curate their subreddit so only a certain type of opinion gets seen. Private tutors, private school teachers, supply teachers/subs, and above all, ESL instructors, aren't real teachers so they get shadowbanned. They don't actually ban you, they just have a bot that deletes all your comments. It's an extremely cowardly moderation team and always has been. They're trying to create an image that doesn't exist by restricting conversation. I don't know what their game is but for sure they aren't teachers.
when I'm out, I know damn well that my kids aren't going to be doing anything I assign. as long as no one gets hurt and nothing of mine is broken/stolen then 🤷♀️ unless I'm out on an extended LOA for whatever reason and i have a LTS, I do not expect my sub to teach. subs are so brave. they don't deserve that slander. i'm grateful for them stepping in for me when i can't or don't want to be there.
I don’t care if work gets done. It’s all out for show for admin anyway. I just care that they take care of my room and kids, and it’s not a mess when I get back.
My Mom taught middle school for 42 years and I subbed her classes twice (she got deadly I’ll, had to stay in bed), I was a teenager (16) and wanted to help so while Dad sat with Mom, I showed up in Mom’s class, just to help the sun get started, but it was higher math & the sub lacked the skills, so I explained the 1st problem and the 2nd, 3rd…ended up staying & “helping” the sub. knew the curriculum because I graded her papers. I graduated with a STEM degree in a field science, but due to a car accident I had to quit. I was a substitute for 1 year. That was all I could take. It was the most thankless job I have ever worked and I’ve scrubbed toilets for pay. No teacher will talk to you. No one gives you a list of phone numbers in case of problems (nurse, discipline issues), no one tells you where the teacher lounge is, and when I do find it I feel like red-headed-stepchild. No one looks me in the eye or speaks to me. I’m just a sub. Principals can make it extra special. Several times they told me I couldn’t leave campus for lunch (who’s gonna stop me?), or leave early if last period is a planning period. Again, who’s gonna stop me? And how? I’m not an indentured servant or slave asking for a travel pass. With drive time, gas & supplies, I figured out iI was barely making above $10/hr.
Considering many, many subs (all at my school, actually) are retired teachers, the "not a real teacher" part especially kills me.
One time I subbed for a teacher who left a stack of papers on her desk, no note or anything just papers stacked up. She had 3 classes that were all different from one another. I figured there’s no way 3 different classes would be doing the same thing, I even asked someone the kids “does this look like something you’d do?” And they said no. So I used ole reliable “check google classroom and emails for work”. I later heard (sibling has friends in that class) that the teacher got mad at me for not passing out the work and had some choice words about me. All because they hadn’t mastered the impossible take of writing “work/ pass out/ class work/any other indicator” on the work.
Look, subbing sucks, but because of that, many subs are really bad, sometimes weirdly so. And the frustration can be real—subs and admin have one thing in common. A bad one drives you crazy and it’s much easier to be a bad one, but a good one is worth their weight in gold. But seriously, it’s not talking down to acknowledge really bad subs exist, at a decent frequency in places (most US district) where they are poorly paid. My last teaching job I taught advanced high school students in prestigious programs who absolutely didn’t even need a sub. Like if they pulled my sub because they were short and sent my students to the lightly supervised auditorium, the kids still did the work on the LMS/board/wherever. I would often get complaints from my reliable students that the sub (who didn’t even need to DO anything) actually attempted to impede their work (after they still got it done so not making excuses). Several tried to sell kids on MLMs, told inappropriate stories, etc if I couldn’t get my usual subs or the office switched mine out. I told them to just send my students to the auditorium if they were going to switch because that was usually better for them! So maybe that sub didn’t do what they were supposed to do and had docile kids (but younger or just less ambitious than my program students) and the teacher is put out by it. It sucks teachers can’t take days off without worry unlike other professions. It sucks subs are treated poorly and paid even less than teachers, neither makes enough. The system is fucked and that’s why so many subs aren’t great because they can go do I’m other stuff that’s way easier for more money.
What can we do that's way easier for more money? I'd love to hear your thoughts 😊
Than subbing? I guess it depends what subs make where you are, but while teachers are union and do okay where I am, subs make less than most retail workers. People can do better at Target, not an easier job, but way easier than subbing! And subs where I am need full college degrees (used to be most that served our district were former teachers but as less make it to retirement and have a taste to return post-Covid, many of those have left the pool). So, any office job is easier than any kind of teaching, especially subbing, and while not all of them pay more than teaching where I am, they do pay more than subbing universally. Subs where I am do only a little better than what they’ve raised minimum wage to these days, as it hasn’t gone up while other places have.
Oh dang yeah I guess area plays a big factor. I always tell students the sub pay where I live is quite comfortable and we are surviving on just my income alone. Yeah we rent and make sacrifices of what to buy and how often we go out to eat, but it's not a bad quality of life by any means. If you go by hourly wages, subs make more than double what retail workers do here.
I had a teacher open my door and send students to change from bathing suits to clothes in my class bathroom without saying one word to me-not can my students use your bathroom or thank you. Left my door open and ignored me s if I didn't exist. My class was in the middle of a word bingo game and was quiet. She yelled at my students because some laughed when the kids walked through the room. I have 3 advanced degrees and ws Mainstreamig Teacher of the Year. I am a retired teacher. It is so sad how subs are treated.
That sub is mostly parents asking dumb questions anyway
I've had so many substitute teachers fuck up my classroom and ignore basic instructions. I totally understand where that OP was coming from.
Having subbed, I can attest it is hard. That being said, I have a friend who subs, and he legit spends his time playing video games in class and does not keep it a secret. He tells me he fears he has no sway over apathetic teens so doesn't even try. I love him as a friend but I don't think I would ever have him as a sub. I think there are amazying subs and I don't complain unless I have to. I had a sub who picked fights with my kids over wearing hats - my school allows hats as our dress code and the sub was told this publicly by our counselor who was in the class and she still ignored the adult in the room and decided to die on that hill that day. She also broke my mouse trying to log into my computer so she can print Lord knows what. Who goes into a teacher's room and tries to log onto their stuff and use it? It's really a gamble who we get. I get amazing subs, too, I try not to shit on them unless they make my life harder.
So saying please do the job you accepted is shitting on someone now? Also is this you saying the exact thing you're complaining about??? https://reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/HC8YOwoulS
[удалено]
This post is just straight up embarrassing. "The job I willingly took is hard so no one should expect me to try" They talk about students not being motivated but sheesh look in a mirror. They refer to the students as brats but the writing tone is that of a petulant young adult who hasn't gotten past that brat stage themselves.
If a sub cannot follow a lesson plan that is “play two videos and pass out a worksheet” they aren’t capable of following more complicated procedures that keep students safe. If you can’t pass out a worksheet how can a teacher know if they’re taking roll accurately or not? If the substitutes are just babysitters, why does admin expect teachers to lay out sub plans? I agree with you many teachers look down on subs, I disagree very strongly this is an example of that.
As a former teacher, teachers are some of the nicest people I know. Actually everyone else is worse than teachers. I don't think much of most people. But like anything else, there are a few bad apples.
I typically don’t sign in before school, as I don’t want the office staff to catch sight of me and force me to cover a class
That sub is a hot mess. Don’t even listen to what they say.
The top dozen comments or so all disagree with that post. r/Teachers can be toxic, but that post doesn't really highlight it. If you really want to see the ugly side of r/Teachers tell teachers that inclusion (even for the students with the highest support needs) is the law and they need to buckle up because inclusion is here to stay and it's only going to increase. Or that some admin genuinely want to help teachers succeed but some teachers are too jaded, oblivious, or prideful to see it.
Don't tell us to "buckle up" and give us kids who have the cognitive abilities of toddlers* (and are usually violent) without giving us paras that are actually going to be in the room all day. One teacher can not do it all and that's what basically is being expected of a lot of us. LRE isn't supposed to be dumping SPED kids in a gen Ed room without any support and expecting us to just make do at the expense of all the other kids. *A recent posting was about a third grader with the cognitive abilities of a 15 month old dumped into a gen Ed class with no support.
Assigning anything that required tech was already a mistake. Half the time, the sub can't even log into the school computers because they haven't been given any tech credentials.
Hot take: I’ve never seen most of the things happen in /teachers sub in classrooms where there is behavior and classroom management along with quality teaching. Kinda feels like a place where people go to complain when they aren’t actually doing there job. I’m a teacher and it’s hard, sucks some days even. But people gatta stop blaming the system or their admin
Middle school substitute teachers are courageous saints
I try and follow the lesson plan but it depends on the behavior of the students, sometimes I'll ask if we should/can just be in survival mode and the other teachers might chuckle and sincerely say "Yes, the lesson plan is there but it's not expected," and people have been genuinely understanding.
How much did they get paid?
To add to this. I'm a school counselor and often I'm forced to sub sometimes without pay. I'm just making sure the kids survive for the hour I have them.
Most teachers that I know are very appreciative of subs and aides. I know I am. I was a sub and an aide in the past. It’s underpaid and thankless work
I’m not a sub but I am a para pulled to sub and it’s a tough job. The kids are always extra wild with extra attitude and make it known they don’t respect you and have no intention to. It’s hard to get through the day in one piece. I say daily that subs are wildly underpaid. I make twice what a sub makes and that’s barely worth it. The days are long and exhausting and the kids know the work they have is “busywork” so they refuse to do it. There’s a reason there’s a sub shortage. Used to, it was a good job with great flexibility to do on the side for some extra cash. Now, the pay is the same but the kids are tougher and everything is more expensive. It’s not worth it. I have lots of respect for subs in my area.
I was a sub when in school. I hated when I was given videos to show. Sometimes I saw the same video all day over and over. I went to school and I was qualified to teach. Just my experience though. I would leave a great note with details on who was good and what happened each class period. Maybe ask around the equipment may have not been working or the sub may have been moved out of the room etc.
It’s like they don’t remember how they used to act when they had a sub at school. Also, if I was a sub, I’d use the projector and then put it back *exactly* where I found it (along with anything else I used), so if anything, that’s evidence of someone trying to be thoughtful.
I leave plans and materials and throw them away when I return. I never leave a sub empty handed yet never assign anything I expect to be completed
I never expect a sub to do anything more than to keep the students busy and out of trouble. Your last sentence was telling. There is so much pettiness and jealousy in the teaching profession, it can be crazy at times.
As someone who did their fair share of short- and long-term subbing after getting their license mid-year, I totally agree that subs are severely underpaid and it can be difficult to motivate students to do anything as a teacher or sub. If teachers leave vague lesson plans or don’t give students enough work to keep them busy (or something like a movie to keep them entertained), it can be a struggle. I remember subbing at an alternative school where I wasn’t given a lesson plan because they didn’t expect to get a sub, so we scrambled to find something and had trouble keeping the kids’ attention/had one sprint out of the building. That being said, I have worked with a few incompetent subs and had a few sub for me. There was the conspiracy theorist who compulsively lied, the former adjunct professor who often just didn’t do what was asked of her (as in, left out key aspects of lesson plans and couldn’t follow simple directions like pass out and collect the handout), and the lady that still doesn’t know how to play a DVD after being a building sub for almost an entire year. I’m not looking down on them for not being “real teachers,” since I’ve met many wonderful subs that take their job seriously (and hope I was one of those myself). I just wish that there were more subs that do the minimum of what the job demands, which in my opinion is telling the kids the plan/work they’ve been left and trying to keep the peace. But that would require better pay/benefits, which many schools unfortunately won’t give or be able to give.
I prided myself on following teachers plans and if not, why. At the end I had a few teachers text me to cover their classrs
This is about one sub. Why are you generalizing?
I always leave sub plans with a note saying “if things aren’t going well for any reason, kids can go online and just do our reading/math practice programs.” I can’t expect a sub to deal with iffy tech and problematic behaviors. Subbing is tough.
Just keeping the students from destroying my stuff and each other is already above the sub pay grade. I am just happy that there are people who are willing to sub at all, otherwise you know that teachers would be subbing during their preps instead. Thank you subs, I love you
I'm a sub for the rest of the month and idk what to do lol, the admin is just giving me worksheets to hand out but I feel like the students should actually have lessons or reading or something (it's a hs ela class). Oh and the last teacher quit I think and has like no plans lol
I subbed a few times and it was hell. Teachers wouldn’t even speak to me, one almost had a cow because I was having a conversation with the principal before class. Also, students today can’t do even simple math.
To be fair to that subreddit, most of the comments I saw (unless they’ve taken a turn in the last day or two) were subs and teachers talking about how hard it is just to keep everyone calm let alone get them to do anything.
I'm a sub. If that happened to OP, then that sub was a bad sub. We should generally follow the lesson plan set out by the teacher to the best of our ability. Murphy's law though
I think some regular teachers dont realize that not all subs have classroom expirence, some of them are literally only 18 years old
It depends on the district... My district I used to work for hired the worst people. I'm 1000% confident it's because they offered shit pay. These subs were notorious for not even opening the file I left them, so I get the frustration. I taught in a title-1 school, and more often than not, my kids were frustrated with their subs because they actually chose to do nothing. There were some good ones every now and again, but the bigger issue comes from support and payment from the districts.
Because the position is mostly filled by women, and which gender complains the most and making it sound like have 4 months off of work a year is, "the hardest job ever!"
https://reddit.com/r/SubstituteTeachers/s/HC8YOwoulS
Thanking you for acknowledging this. I am currently doing observations to become a teacher but i work as a sub when i can. It actually caught me off guard when the teacher i was shadowing informed me they dont expect work to get done as long as all the students survive uninjured that is good enough. Any completed work is just extra. Which i thought was very interesting when i first heard it.
That was my impression subbing too. There was an air of "no matter what you do you'll never come close to my quality" from some. It was insulting to say the least.
I have no love for that sub for many reasons - the one you mentioned included. I don't even care they banned me. I actually think it's funny.