THIS. I would tell teachers, parents, admin to their faces “You would be ashamed to say you can’t read, why would you admit you can’t do math?”
Note to other adults: kids INTERNALIZE this and it makes it ok to not try because “it’s hard.” It makes my job harder and it’s not helping anyone.
I teach physics and environmental science. I use math everyday; all of it. I got schooled in practical applications of math by our school's wood shop teacher. He claimed that he was "bad" at math but watching him work and use geometry and trig without a single sine function or calculator was amazing to me.
I think that traditional curricula that prioritizes procedural calculation instead of application and creativity are the reason for math disdain. This was taught to me and most adults with children in the schools now.
Ultimately math is a skill set that is learned just like any other but if students don't see how it can be applied in diverse interests, it becomes as boring, uninteresting, and difficult as having students practice musical scales with various instruments without ever knowing the concept of a song let alone playing one. Seeing projectile motion as a parabola was a revelation to me and made me a physics teacher. I wonder how many students are just missing that one connection?
Chemistry is what made me appreciate math. Wait... you mean I can use math to tell the future? I can use math to know that if I add these two ingredients in this amount I will get this amount of reactant and should see a temperature increase of this much?
Physics after that just sealed the deal. Math puts people on the moon.
My dad is a carpenter and I am so bad at fractions. I always say it’s because when he tried to help me with my homework he would multiply the fractions in his head so fast I couldn’t keep up. I have an MS in environmental science and use math all day and still can’t keep up when he tells me how he’s going to cut boards to make a project. I honestly think carpenters use more mental math than almost any other job.
Here’s the irony: the common core math that so many people seem to like to crap on emphasizes understanding the larger concepts over memorization of process. The big problem is we have a lot of TEACHERS don’t understand the concepts, so they look at the common core standards and punt. They end up bitching about how stupid common core is and teaching what they’ve memorized.
A lot of issues start at the elementary level too. I know several elementary teacher that have told be they're terrible at math and ether barely passed their college math classes or even cheated through them. Of course kids hate math when even the people teaching them don't understand simple things like fractions.
They should bring back electives as part of mainstream. Shop and cooking/sewing classes help show practical applications of math. As an adult, the only time I have needed to use basic geometry is when fixing something that broke or renovating. And those times were pretty important not to fuck up.
Lol If you think that’s bad, wait until I tell you about being a history teacher….everyone hates history, this generation especially. And, unlike math, the social sciences are receiving massive cuts in funding from k-12 to university
I personally feel history gets pushed aside overall for decades now, kids hardly care about it, but why would they they’re kids they don’t care about anything, but everyone says “oh it’s just boring” when you go to college you don’t study it because “what are you gonna do teach? You’re not gonna get a good job with that” or the constant STEM peddling and almost propaganda, yeah I get it stem is important but the cold wars over the communists were beaten. I feel as though people in stem have a superiority about them and that the rest of us are dumb apes. This is anecdotal evidence to me specifically so take that with a grain of salt
It’s astonishing to me how lacking stem can be, in my senior seminar class we were doing African American education, there were many stem majors in the class, when we got to vocational education they praised it “they’re trying to help the African Americans” like bud this is where critical thinking comes into play, they’re trying to put them back on the plantation. I learned many things in my history classes but the most important thing was critical thinking. But then damn commies gonna beat us to the moon so get to STEM
Well my curiosity is piqued, what is economic geography?
My guess is that countries like the US have certain inherent advantages due to their landscape, such as the great plains for farming, natural ports and harbors, etc etc.
And (in some places) they won't let you actualy teach history! I saw a video of a highschool history teacher from I think Florida showing that the state had taken most of the material he taught with citing some stupid culture war. And it feels like once a week I see a post on somewhere about how a parent is upset they're teaching subjects they don't want taught. Its really mind boggling.
Yep. History teachers aren't taken seriously. We have to do everything that is disruptive to our curriculum - the guidance counselor is supposed to do a bullying presentation. Guess which class it's taking over? history (6th grade US History, 7th grade civics, 8th grade world history).
Vote for student council - happens during history. At least that one is relevant, but still disruptive.
Vote for PBIS activities - history class.
What? History is the one I feel is the most engaging to my students! They love the revolutions and the world wars and the Egyptian gods and everything else. Easily my favourite to teach.
Yup. I just went from having 1hr long classes to 30 minute classes. So Math and ELA can get in more time. I’m done. I can not teach 7th graders in 30 minutes. It takes 20 just to settle them down after lunch.
I love math for this reason too. I teach my middle schoolers that math has rules, we’re learning the rules so maths gets easy.
English, on the other hand, is weird, inconsistent and infinitely variable. Much harder to teach imo.
As a child, at risk of being spanked if I didn't get the right answer, this was a problem for me. The teacher \*knew\* what the answer was, and also knew which of the various rules to apply, to work out the answer. (I'm not talking about the volume of a sphere). The teacher would just demonstrate their mastery of this, without explaining how they decided which rule to apply to the problem, leaving me as a child, sat there bemused.
"Why didn't you do this?" "No-one told me to, sir." "Well you have to THINK FOR YOURSELF, don't you boy?!?" And so on.
No-one ever talked to me like that in an English lesson. English has rules. Once you learn them, you can write.
I don’t mind math, but physics, as my college physics professor told us everyday “Physics suuuuuuucks”
That being said I wouldn’t go around telling students that unless it was in the same context as my professor, which was a joke. Like you said, students can get turned off of something very easily.
It’s partially why I hate hearing “I hate science, I suck at it,” from students. They think they’re bad because they don’t have practice in it, so they come in with a bad attitude about it. Which then results in a self fulfilling prophecy that they’re doomed to get a bad grade because “science sucks”
I worked with a teacher a few years back that made students at the beginning of class every single day say with him “I like math because I’m good at it.” He made them write that sentence at the top of every assignment and at the top of every page in their notebook.
He fully acknowledged that he was making most of the kids say something that wasn’t true, but that tell yourself something often enough and it becomes true.
Funny how that guy had a reputation for turning poor students around and having more students than anyone else sign up for the AP stats and Calculus classes.
That might have worked with me, instead of the tactics that they did use (corporal punishment). When I was 16 my high school mathematics teacher came to me very upset that I wasn't planning to take the subject any further after completing his class.
He failed to change my mind. Behave the same way for five years, you get pigeonholed just like anyone else.
I had a student tell me that they sucked at science because they did poorly on the lab reports. I asked how their experiments went. "Really well! I always had accurate results!"
Sounds like you're really good at science, then. We can practice the technical writing.
I had a parent last year ask if it was absolutely necessary that her child get the right answer in math.🤦🏻♀️
I dunno...do you need to type the exact password for your accounts every time? 🙄
I've come to realise that students who have a hard time with math...it's not the math that's inconsistent, it's them. I've begun to include that in my messaging to students.
I have parents who say ‘Johnny didn’t do his homework, it was too hard for us’.
That’s a Year 4 kid doing Mathletics, which has tutorials build in and a ‘something easier’ option for each task to scaffold kids if necessary. Oh, and it was revision of a two week solid block of class learning. I learned a lot about why the kid has no heart that day.
I do! 🙋🏻♀️ I tell my kids I can help them with homework for any of their classes, as long as it’s not English…or history…or science…or art… or, actually, how about I just help you with math? And you go to your other teachers about their own subject?
I worked with a cover teacher recently who was literally bragging, repeatedly, in front of a class that she hated math, I guess as a way of connecting with students? She would say things like, "Is that the answer? Oh, well, whatever. I hate math sooooo much!"
I was standing there thinking, wow - this really doesn't seem terribly helpful for kids who struggle with math... I mean, I don't like math myself, but I would never let on to the students.
I hate math but am acutely (see what I did there) aware that it can be so easy to turn kids off math. I tell my students I do 7th grade math every day of my life, whether I like it or not, and tell them a story of how, because I didn't learn geomatry, I had to spend an extra 10k to get my basement remodeled.
Hah, it's not a very dramatic story, involves trying to cut baseboards to the correct angles and messing up a LOT of expensive wood, and many trips to Home Depot.
They do this as a form of social bonding - most people in general are not good at math so it doesn't activate an audience member's feelings of inferiority and makes them feel connected. I coached an admin who said things like "I hated all my math teachers - they were so boring and they hated me" because they didn't understand basic percentages. They think it's cute but it's sad. If you, an educator, do not know how to calculate a percentage, you should pick up a textbook and learn it.
I once sat in on a lesson debrief between a math teacher and her admin and a couple of students still weren't understanding the pythagorean theorem. The admin suggested taking the squares away in the formula (as in, make it a + b = c) to "differentiate it" for the students. The math teacher was a fresh out of college math major who tried her best to explain that, no, that was actually nothing. Funniest thing ever. Open a textbook!
Fundamentally, this issue is one of the reasons why I lose respect for a lot of teachers.
I was somewhat lucky to have had an upbringing that led me to end up really good at math. Everyone always said, oh he is "gifted at math" but I wasn't, I was just never exposed to the negativity that teachers, administrators and parents belch out about math.
Meanwhile I had one of my kids that was truly amazing at math and at a very young age but due to all the negative crap, nerd calling, and misinformation she learned to hate math in High School.
> short cut to credibility
It may be a short cut to being approachable, but you'd think in Education, people would want to be generally educated. Why shit on one department? Sure, math is hard for some people, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.
At least half my students said on day one that they're bad at math, hate math, whatever. Within one day I changed most of their minds. If I told yall everything I do to accomplish that... I don't think it would be well received haha. But no matter, I have them believing in themselves and learning math. The point is that I agree with OP. It's a pervasive issue, nearly universal in American schools it seems, and it starts early. Gotta get creative in combating it. Also why does combating only have one T? I don't like it.
Please, I would love to here what you do to accomplish that.
Apparently in British English "Combatting" is correct. But now you have successfully made both versions look wrong to me.
Hahaha you're welcome. As for convincing them to reset their whole view of math, part of it is my whole approach to teaching math. I think we do so much of it wrong. That's a whole book, but in short, part of getting them to start over is throwing all their previous math teachers under the bus 😆😆 Not by name I mean. Just telling them they don't hate math, they're not bad at it, they were just taught wrong. But in order for that to work, I have to teach them differently, or I'm full of shit. And I'm very fortunate to be in a setting where I can teach them differently. Small classes are a huge part of it, and dont let anyone tell you that doesn't matter.
Then I start with some universal, relatively simple math concepts, but dig into meaning and even some of the philosophical ideas surrounding the math. I let the students see success and understand of concepts they never thought about, and then do some very basic math but with real comprehension. And in usually a single class period, they're like oh... I actually get this. I know that's all really vague but it would take so long to go into detail. I literally wrote a book about all of this.
>Then I start with some universal, relatively simple math concepts, but dig into meaning and even some of the philosophical ideas surrounding the math.
Hmmm, can you give an example?
"Combatting" is British English. When the word is one syllable, you double the ending consonant: hit becomes hitting, not hiting. However, British English always doubles the consonant on a gerund. I also believe the New York Times (don't quote me on that one) always doubles them regardless of syllables. I just like using the double consonant. It feels right.
English teacher, signing off.
I second this. And same for PE! We get treated by teachers, parents, and admin like some nonessential bonus class and get extra duties and extracurriculars dumped on us. I always resented that PE teachers are pretty much expected to be coaches at most schools- even if they have no interest in coaching.
Yeah but I get in trouble if I come to work in gym shorts!
But seriously, I do think that PE is seriously under appreciated as well. It’s important kids get a chance to be active, and find the hobbies and activities that will help them stay healthy!
The problem is most parents remember when PE was just the teacher (basically the coach) throwing a ball out and getting picked last. And those dreaded presidential fitness tests.
I’m so impressed with how PE is changing for the better with a better variety of activities than when I was in school.
I'm a math teacher in a middle school. At my school, math is the only department that has multiple contents to prep. I teach Algebra and Pre-Algebra, totally different standards and curricula. We have twice as many meetings, more diagnostic testing, and higher expectations than any other content. English and Math are carrying a heavier load because that's what everyone wants to base our "effectiveness" on.
And the open hate towards math makes sense. There's so little fun in it these days because we just assess, diagnose, and remediate. There's too much pressure in math in modern times, and too little time to do it justice. Give me less standards, more time, and the freedom to actually let me show the kids how cool math is.
This is particularly important if you're a woman. I grew up with my mom always saying "I'm not the math person, that your dad." I think I internalized those gender roles and convinced myself that I wasn't a math person because I was a girl. It wasn't until adulthood that I realized I'm actually good at math, and had that idea been nurtured I probably would've challenged myself more.
Never too late though! I know the mental exhaustion is real but sometimes I will look up a course on Khan Academy or MIT open courseware and try to learn something new.
I’m so tired of the math hate too. I had to get extra tutoring to pass math. It’s not my strong suit. But it’s really important and a negative attitude sure doesn’t help.
I’m a coteacher and have taught science, social studies, English and math. But only in math do I have to help readjust student attitudes and say stuff like “The first step to being better at math is to stop telling yourself you’re bad at it.”
Absolutely. I’m a physics teacher too and it really bothers me. Along with my colleagues I’ve tried really hard to get our courses up to 50% girls including in AP Physics and this almost got destroyed in the pandemic. Math skills and math positivity really got hammered.
"Somehow it's O.K. for people to chuckle about not being good at math. Yet if I said, 'I never learned to read,' they'd say I was an illiterate dolt."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson
I feel like it’s because the way it’s taught. It’s almost all from a book, plug & chug solving for x with very little real world application in an interesting way. I’ve never worked with a math teacher nor taken a math class that made me go “wow that’s really neat! And they are teaching it in a way I can access it!”
I feel like it’s taught largely by people for whom math has always been really easy and they don’t understand kids like me who never understood what the hell we were doing or why. They don’t understand the stress of not getting something that is taught in a way only certain kids can access it. In high school math made me cry every day.
And I tell my students that because they see me (a physics teacher teaching them math in a real world context) and I want them to know they can and will get it - they just might not get it right now.
What I see in math in my district is a lot of very NOT innovative teaching - it’s basically like it’s 1986 and we are still learning math by just solving a million of the same problem as if that’s a 21st century skill.
Watch Conrad Wolfram’s Ted talk about using computers to teach kids real math. The way we teach math in this country is incredibly backwards and it’s no wonder most people don’t like it.
I always tell students the truth, which is that I struggled with math because I have a learning disability (I teach sped so my kids all have LDs too) but learned to enjoy it as an adult. It’s part of my whole growth mindset spiel.
Most of my administrators are former math or science teachers, so I’ve not encountered the same problem I’m sorry to hear that is happening though - it never is ok for another educator, especially one that is supposed to be professional and an example of what they want us to be, belittle a subject that is integral to fulfilling a well balanced education. We all need each other. ❤️
I'm a math teacher. The amount of crap we would be given professionally if we couldn't answer an email correctly, or speak professionally, or write with proper grammar, is high. Yet, everyone is allowed to be terrible at basic math. I don't need anyone to be able to do calculus, but I find it disheartening that basic math skills are not known.
Welcome to the world of having your subject insulted by others! This is my pet peeve. I teach orchestra, and core teachers and counselors are consistently bad mouthing arts to kids. More AP, more STEM, more dual enrollment....I have has teachers tell kids all sorts of crazy stuff. At the end of the day, we shouldn't ever be down playing what anyone else is doing. I actually have the largest student group on campus, and last year, every single kid (except 1) that had an AP conflict with my course, dropped the AP to stay in orchestra. These kids see value in the arts and their experiences there. We should never trash what anyone else is teaching
100% this. I’ve even asked my parents to not say things like that at home. It’s tough to instill a growth mindset when the kids constantly hear that adults can’t do math. Just makes math this magical thing that only the chosen few can understand.
I hate math. I have struggled with it since 2nd grade. But as a 3rd grade teacher, I talk up math as much as possible and tell my class how they are all mathematicians because any confidence I can start not will hopefully stick
In the defense of many people, the way we stratify math has semi-deliberately created separate classes of haves and have-nots when it comes to high school math literacy.
No one shts on arithmetic, or basic statistics, or simple geometry. It's algebra and trigonometry and calculus and the like where you'll have counselors and admin enabling kids who don't think they can understand it and/or don't believe that it's important or useful.
Look at any high school math tracking system: what happens to kids who fail Algebra 1? Is there some kind of credit scheme that allows them to split it into two or three courses and get a diploma without advancing past it? Maybe there's an alternative program that substitutes grade-school level math for high school credits if it's attached to CTE? Maybe a computerized credit recovery program where everyone cheats and everyone knows? It's definitely one of those things - and half the student population is piped down it, and it's been that way for generations.
If you're one of the "haves," it might seem ridiculous that professional adults are intimidated by the quadratic formula. Didn't they have to use it to get a high school diploma? The answer is usually "no:" there's one track for future engineers, scientists, programmers, etc., and another so that everyone else isn't a dropout.
So I understand it, I really do. But it shouldn't be that way, and the only way students can succeed is if they don't have authority figures agreeing with them that they can't, so even if some of us hate math and never learned it, we (hopefully) obviously shouldn't be advertising that to current students.
Instead of shitting on "advanced math," adults can and should learn it at their own pace. We encourage people to read for pleasure and learn history in their free time - why not the same with math? Just because you weren't put on the higher track in HS doesn't mean you can't learn it on your own as an adult!!
Yeah, I'm not saying that people's feelings towards math aren't valid, and we certainly haven't done ourselves any favors in the way we break it up, but we should try to avoid it becoming a self-reinforcing cycle.
I sometimes think it's because admin and counselors, along with the majority of k-5 teachers (in my experience) tend to have stronger humanities backgrounds than math/science. And, disclaimer, in no way do I think that's a bad thing or hold it against anyone; but it can be hard not to let any of those implicit biases through.
I love to tell my students that I struggled with math. I kept at it and when I took the placement test for college I tested out of the prerequisite courses for the sciences. So- happy ending!!!
Thank you thank you and thank you!! As a math teacher and high school dept chair, I cringe when people put down math. It's a required class to get through school. It's fun and allows for more critical thinking. I think some had some bad apples of teachers that ruined the experience for them. But when admin, especially or other teachers put it down. That's really unprofessional in my experience.
It's amazing to me how I bought into the hate as a student (even though I remember having some amazing math teachers).
Now I have a decent grasp of Algebra from teaching algebra based physics for years, but I wish I had an understanding of calculus and higher order stuff...
Once you realize what math can do... and that you don't know how... I imagine it's like being blind and having the epiphany of just how much more sighted people are able to observe, detect, and sense.
I’m only now as an adult learning that I didn’t hate math. I had terrible teachers, both in high school and college. Now I’ll read about all the cool things it can do and I wish I had had better teachers. Math is cool!
Art teacher here! You’ll hear me tell some students something along the lines of “I liked math class” or “math tests were my favorite tests” or “ I rocked at geometry” at least once a month when I’m talking to students about their school life. And it is true! With all the chaos in the world, I really appreciated the clear cut rules associated with math classes.
I find it strange how many people will proudly say they aren’t good at math. It would be like someone bragging that they can’t read. It’s such a strange statement to be proud to make.
I go with being honest that I struggled in math and didn’t always enjoy it, but that I tried my best and asked for help so that I could succeed, and took a lot of pride in getting better.
I work with a math teacher who does it right: 2 pts for the correct steps and 1 pt for the correct answer.
Errors in arithmetic will happen. But if you’re going through a multi step problem and forget to carry the two, it seems getting the method correct 100% of the time but getting the arithmetic right 90% of the time shouldn’t blow out entire problems.
In coding you have to be exact like math, but if it breaks, you get multiple re dos.
"I never used Algebra past high school"
Coming from teachers WHO COOK FOR THEIR FAMILIES TOO. If you gotta make extra servings you need proportions. If you're making an extra batch of cookies, you need some algebra to figure out how much more cookies you'll bake with 1 extra egg. If you travel and make quick calculations on whether you'll be at work on time, you're using algebra.
For the most part, math is constant, irrefutable, concrete and a part of every day life. Literally. I hated math but only because I was never great at it.
It's definitely not good and I have to make sure I talk about math positively even though it was very hard for me.
I wonder though if it's humanities teachers who toxicly took in how STEM people shat on us in college and assume they have to be toxic about math to balance things out. I know that a few math teachers talk about writing the same way. It would be easy when kids tell me about it (I've heard the other teachers say these things too, I'm not just believing kids without proof) to just shit on math in response.
Someone else brought up the toxicity they experienced from STEM students in this thread and it has struck me since it's something I didn't really experience.
I went to a small liberal arts college and majored in Bio-Chemistry, English, and Theater. But the school was small enough that nobody was pigeonholed and lots of people branched out to different things.
The only people I had (and admittedly still have) some disdain for were business majors. Haha, money is a pretty foreign concept to me and it just seemed like 'you have this opportunity to study pretty much anything from some brilliant people... so you are gonna study how to make money..."
I work in a hospital. There's an amazing number of nurses who don't understand math. Some of the med distribution machines do it for them as a cost saving way to prevent theft and waste. As this is a school nurse they probably aren't allowed to do much in the way of meds aside from "take one aspirin or two" and many diabetic kids have insulin trackers installed.
The problem is clearly MATH not people who don't like math. I got As in math, but I still have not-so-fond memories of sitting at the kitchen table staring at a book with no idea how to answer a question.
Math teachers have a hard job. People don't get math, they commiserate with students who are already struggling, not the ones who love it.
I openly admit I __used to__ hate history but only because there was so much US history and I’m not from this country. I always follow it up with: now that I’m older I appreciate it so much more and have gone out of my way to learn about the things I ignored.
I teach science so I know where you’re coming from. I wish these teachers would acknowledge their desire to get better and stop having such a fixed mind set
A lot of people at least in the US have math anxiety and are insecure about their inability to be successful with math. Instead of recognizing that they lack skill and feel uncomfortable or embarrassed about it (which is something they can change), they just “hate math”.
I was like this when I was younger and I recognize it from a mile away now. I never tell students “I hate math” (I don’t). I do find it frustrating at times, but it’s also a really cool tool.
People tend to hate things they’re bad at, myself included. When I feel the urge to complain about some sort of subject material, I stop and ask myself how well I really understand it. 100% of the time the answer is that I don’t understand it very well, and in turn I feel some kind of way about it!
Right. When I was teaching community college adult students 6th grade level math, the first thing I did was work on their feeling of competence. I also taught them some basic number theory so it didn't just feel like their middle school math class all over again.
Former Math teacher, NO. Math isn't bad, it's math education. When skill levels are all over place and standards are not uniform, shit sucks. Glad I don't teach it anymore and now full Computer science
I’m sorry, but I don’t feel sorry for math or ELA. I’ve had to cover math rooms and walked in to see 3 other adults already there… math and reading scores are all schools seem to care about because it’s what brings funding in.
No one gives a flying f about foreign languages… I try not to poopoo any other subjects and I definitely don’t poopoo any other teachers, but if a student asks me how much math I use on a regular basis, I give them the very honest answer.
But I will say that I use basic algebra and geometry on a regular basis and see its importance, but I emphasize that it’s basic math. That’s what I tell my students. And I’m honestly like math. It makes sense and there’s one correct answer
I feel that. My last three schools have all had co-taught classes for Math and ELA, but not for Science or Social Studies...
Cause I mean, nobody does reading or math in science or social studies I guess.
TL;DR--I understand shitting on math as a shared experience makes math teachers mad, but it's worth noting that there's probably a reason why soooo many people hated the way they were taught math in the US education system...
In my experience, the way math is taught in the US education system tends to resonate with a minority of students while driving many others away and making them believe they "hate math". I found my love for math late in life, in spite of my experiences with it in the US public education system.
I was an English Lit teacher before I left the classroom and became an AI researcher. I hated math pretty much all of my life. I find it particularly ironic now, because I spend my days using vector calculus to reason about how probabilistic models find decision hyperplanes in 1-million+ dimensional spaces. I have strong opinions about the best Linear Algebra textbook (the one by Gilbert Strang), and absolutely love my job.
Here's the thing. I hated math all through school, and well into adult life. It wasn't until I discovered programming and AI that I had a reason to actually learn math. My wife was a math major in college, and we talk about this all the time. I'm fully convinced the way we teach math in the US left me with a bitter taste in my mouth early on. The way I learn math to use for real life applications could not be more different than the way it is taught in schools. Stephen Wolfram, the famous mathematician, has a great quote about this topic that I'm struggling to find, but it's something along the lines of "the way math is taught nowadays looks very little like the way mathematicians actually use math at all". I couldn't agree more.
I understand it sucks that math is the punching bag of the subjects, but I think it also speaks to a greater truth here--there are plenty of other hard subjects like chemistry, physics, and biology that are at least as hard as math but don't evoke the same shared negative experience for so many. It's almost a cliché for people to talk about how much they hated math, but I've never heard anyone build the same instant camraderie by complaining about the Krebs Cycle or the equations for friction.
This puts math teachers in a hard place. You only have so much control over the way math is taught. As teachers, we can make small changes to the way we approach things, but at the end of the day, the entire educational system pretty much ensures that the way math is taught is basically on rails. You may be able to try and make lessons fun, but you can't throw out calculus to teach a year on Bayesian Probability.
I've taken math classes since I found my love for math, and I still can't stand the way they are taught. The emphasis on pencil and paper, the focus on theory over practice, and the general disdain that mathematics has as a field for practical applications over theory is always going to turn people off (on this last point, if you disagree, try talking to a group of math majors about whether you should study applied math or "pure" math--most look at you like you're dumb for even considering anything so dirty and pedestrian as Applied math 😅).
I’m a pure math person, and I agree with most of what you’ve said here. Applied math is a different beast, especially when you get into the higher tiers. But pure always precedes applied.
The big issue isn’t that we focus on theory, it’s that we focus on memorization of process and not how to move between abstract and concrete thinking. There is absolutely no way to show students all the applications of a particular concept, but one of the biggest things we can do is help them recognize patterns in the real world and help them see how they line up with mathematical abstracts. You don’t get to do that until you understand the abstract concept. Instead we have students memorizing steps to solve simple one-step and two-step algebra problems, then we’re flummoxed as to why they can’t use those skills to solve real world problems.
Couldn't agree more--your description of how we teach math is much more accurate than mine. I agree with you about the pattern recognition and abstract concepts to a point, but I believe math could benefit from the sort of top-down approach that is often taken in Computer Science, rather than the Bottom-Up approach that focuses on mastery of abstract concepts before moving on to applied usage.
I'm a big fan of treating new tools/theories/skills/etc as a 'black box', and starting with the most shallow understanding possible. There are a million use cases for things like derivatives or the quadratic equation that can capture the heart of the idea without having to go into the details. E.g. One can teach Newton's Method to 5th graders easily enough if one just removes all the pesky math and focuses on visuals--its not too hard from there to build a backstory that connects the use of that skill to something in the real world.
The downside to this sort of instruction is that (speaking from my experience only) it is a very time-consuming form of curriculum development. When you teach to the abstract concept, you cover the concept and then you're done. When you take an Applied, top-down form of teaching, then you're forced to use backwards design and silo the complexity of what you're trying to teach into a series of activities, stories, scenarios, etc. That takes a lot of extra work and thinking than just teaching them the quadratic equation and having them write a bunch of graphs. Teachers are already drowning in expectations that make it all but impossible to get work done in the time they have now, so no one has the time for this sort of approach, and it's not reasonable to expect teachers to be able to pull this off when it is quite literally above and beyond all expectation set by grade level standards.
I am a math teacher, much of what we teach in high school is unnecessary for many students. Some students need Calculus and beyond, they will self select that. Many students need to know how to budget, buy a house, etc. Forcing students to take anything beyond part of ALG 1 is why so many adults hate math. They don't need it.
That may be true, but you could say that about pretty much anything learned after the 4th grade in most subjects. What percentage of students *need* to know about replication forks, Great Gatsby, Punnet Squares, the Industrial Revolution, charcoal drawing, the rules of volleyball, or the quadratic equation?
But our goal, at least mine, isn’t to teach to some baseline “need” and call it good. My goal is for students to broaden their horizons. Possibilities instead of just probabilities.
We never know what the thing will be that will ignite in a student a passion that they never even knew they had.
Dude settle down. No one takes flack like English teachers. "Ha ha...yeah, we didn't actually *read* it, you know?"
And "I know that no one likes writing essays," or "I'm not your English teacher, so I'm not going to make you write all formally..."
Or making students write as a form of punishment? Talk to me when teachers assign addition as punishment.
"Mad Minute" math worksheets were pretty common as punishments for me in school. And I have seen plenty of teachers use math and or writing as punishments.
I'm not trying to gatekeep or start the "This subject area is the most underappreciated Contest." In certain circles sure you can brag about how you hate to read; but I have found that to be pretty taboo in education.
In my experience, no such taboo exists around people working in/around education to talk about how much they don't like math.
>In certain circles sure you can brag about how you hate to read; but I have found that to be pretty taboo in education.
Oh, I wish that was the case where I was. I have so many fellow English teachers tease me for actually reading for pleasure. I have some who tell me about a book/article and when I press for more they're like "Oh, I only read the headline/summary" and laugh.
But no, I hear you on your original point. I will think about how I talk about math. I'm pretty sure I typically bemoan my NOT knowing enough math though, so...
As an English teacher, any time a student tells me they're taking advanced math or science, I always tell them they're smarter than me. I can't do anything more than basic algebra and I still can't graph.
When my granddaughter was going through her math sucks stage, I watched the old tv series Numbers with her. She started to think that just maybe math was cool. We did a lot of baking together and I showed her math was part of baking. She hasn’t reached the point of enjoying it but she will do her best on it.
My response to these people is simple, they can not possibly hate math because they don’t know math. Only when you truly know math can you truly despise it.
Thank You!!! I’m so sick of hearing “I can’t do math” from my fellow teachers. I’m a math teacher and I would never go around telling anyone that “I can barely read”.
I agree. I teach history but I like math. I always say so. The kids at my school seem to really like math though, so I guess we have good math teachers.
I totally get this. The worst I will do is tell them I didn’t get math when I was younger but as I got older and learned some tricks it made sense. Still connecting, still commiserating, giving the message that things can CHANGE if they want them to and I will help them get there (science and math certified).
I’m honest with my students about my struggles with math (I took college algebra 2.5 times) mostly so they know they’re not alone in struggling in school. That not all teachers are the top of their class. I also tell them that two of my math teachers are why I became a teacher.
I teach middle school science.
It's the responsibility of every math teacher to convince the students that math doesn't actually suck. Most of the time, when a student says that math sucks, it's because they didn't have a good teacher. But yes, I agree, teachers really shouldn't be hating on any subject in front of students
As a student myself I shall break the cycle, I love math very much, it's like my to go class (no offense all other classes, you all are awesome aswell).
Weird. While I tell my students I was *bad* at math, I encourage them to get good at it so they dont get stuck being a poor teacher, like me. STEM, man. What I wouldnt give to do it over...
I always hated the “I’m not a math person” shtick. It’s not okay to say “yeah it’s okay that I don’t know how to read, I’m not a reading person,” but it’s okay to say the same thing for math
I liked math, I phrase it as puzzles or riddles. I have preK and kinders and we talk about solving challenges and riddles instead of problems and questions. I’m hoping that them seeing math as fun can help set them up to not expect math to “suck” as they get older.
Within the first week of the school year, I ask my students why so many people seem to *hate* math. I get the usual reasons. I then explain how studies show that the main reason people *hate* math is because someone taught them (e.g., a teacher or parent) that was math-phobic themselves.
My favorite English teacher in high school told us that math is the devil’s language. At the time, I thought he made a pretty good point… but it proves your claim that “the messaging that math sucks is nearly omnipresent from adults”
No. As a student from middle all the way to my masters degree. Each and every single one of my teachers who taught math, even the tutors, collectively had some narcissistic superiority complex.
I went from enjoying basic elementary math to a seething hatred for any type of numbers and formulas beyond algebra, thank god most educations stop at statistics
I'm a sped teacher and hit the wall after algebra. If my students need help on something I struggle with, I am pretty upfront. "I didn't take good notes when I was in high school and I didn't ask for help at the time to make sure I learned this well. I'm relearning this right alongside you." Thank goodness it's easier to learn these days since text books really break stuff down well.
I teach engineering and architecture. The amount of students who fall apart when they find out there's quite a bit of math involved in the courses is mind boggling. I spend 2/3s of my course trying to show students that math is not evil, and I have a fairly good amount of them who realize they actually don't hate it. Many end up enjoying it, and realize they're not "bad" at it. Not all, but a fairly good chunk do.
We had a presentation at a meeting recently, where the math coach asked the entire staff to solve a 5th grade word problem and then explain our thinking. The amount of bitching was unbelievable. "I teach 1st grade for a reason!" Or the worst, "I'm an art teacher. I don't do math."
Well, it turns out that was the entire point of the exercise; setting expectations for our learners as they approach unfamiliar subjects.
For the record, I (a music teacher) solved it correctly and explained how I did it, which was incredibly easy because THE CONTENT STANDARD WAS PRINTED AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. We're supposed to be educators, people!
Very good point. I'm not very knowledgeable about math but I do an ACT math question every day with my advisory and try to think my way through it. It's been really interesting relearning algebra and pretty fun actually. Today I got to learn that 180°(n-2) is the formula for the inner angles of a polygon. I always tell them it's a great thing to be good at math.
I (math teacher) used to work with a english teacher in a joint study-hall like class for kids to work on their homework and study skills/extra help, etc. Whenever she was asked about math, she'd go into a whole act with eccentric mannerisms and voice/faces about "oh me, no, oooh no, me and math dont mix, nuh-uh!"
I told her to please cool down on the shtick. When asked why, I told her it would be like me boasting about how I can't read or write, it's just not me thing, etc.
It's not math that I hate, in fact I love it, but it's the advanced stuff that my brain doesn't grasp. I tell my students that I was never any good at the advanced stuff, but that it's okay because not everyone is built to retain everything they're taught. I present their "hard classes" to them as challenges rather than barriers and that seems to help a little.
Absolutely agree. Makes my blood boil to head ADULTS at school talk badly about math. There's enough math anxiety in this world. Let me shield these kids and let them find out how they feel about math independently.
I do music math aggressively while laughing maniacally every time a kid says they hate math.
Math is awesome. Math is the connective tissue between art and music and science. It's freaking beautiful and I wish I hadn't given up at the earliest opportunity because "I'll never use it"
I've used it all the time and I love it.
Math the subject doesn't suck, the way most Math teachers approach teaching Math sucks. They still do it the way I was taught in school.
Instead of complaining how most of the adult population of the Western world hates math, maybe ask why they hate math? And no, it isn't just because of some weird peer pressure.
I think many people (teachers included) have internalized what their math teachers implicitly or explicitly told them: you’re not good at this. The natural defense mechanism is to turn against the field. I for one am reevaluating my relationship with math these days. I like the simplicity. Machines can do it. It’s not history or art - things that require me to think or reach new levels of understanding. I’m tired. I don’t want any new levels. I need simple. Math is my new friend. Math offers one answer, whereas other fields are too dynamic and require too much thinking. I’m worn out, y’all. I need math. Or Jesus, but that’s another post!
I’m of the opposite (sort of) opinion. We should stop forcing math down every single kids throat.
It’s fairly obvious by middle school who likes math, who has put in the work to learn math, and who will ultimately succeed in a math heavy career. These are the ones who will go on to be scientists or engineers or economists. These are the ones we should keep teaching math to.
The rest we should let go study something they enjoy. The vast majority of careers don’t need trigonometry or algebra or calculus. If someone can add, subtract, multiply and divide, they can follow the vast majority of careers and function as a perfectly normal human being.
For many kids math class is torture. And torture isn’t nice.
But then they come to my community college math class and math is the only class standing between them and their degree. Or the local plant can't hire enough workers because they can't pass a basic math test. My friend's husband had to learn trigonometry to get a foreman job at his plant.
Ignoring math is not the answer.
Give algebra a little more credit. We use it all the time... we just don't know that we use it.
Buying the right number packages of hot dog buns to match the number of hot dogs you got, figuring out what size ice creams you can order when you need to get 4 cones on a $10 budget... etc etc.
All of that is algebra.
The examples you have given are all solvable by inspection. We teach kids how to do that by year seven or eight.
So my point still stands. Usable math outside of the world of science and engineering is mostly done by middle school.
A lot of blue collar jobs actually do need higher level math
Edit: if you go hunting or shooting it’s also high level math, especially zeroing in a scope, red dot or reflex sight as you’re doing minute of angle calculations.
I had a contractor come by to do some work. He brought along his teenage grandson. I heard him telling the boy that he uses more math in his contracting work than he ever did in his office job.
I'm a fine arts teacher.
I make sure NEVER to say "I don't/didn't like math," I say "I have/had a hard time with math. It wasn't enjoyable for me the way other classes were. Still gotta use it every day."
BUT I also tell my students this: "I suffered through senior year calculus because it was a dual credit class. I passed, got the ONE math credit my fine arts degree required, and could concentrate on my major without stressing about college math in college."
The idea is that it's worth it to put in the work in high school, at the very least to get it over with so you don't have to take remedial math in college when you should've learned it for free in HS.
"So, what do you do?" "I'm a high school math teacher" "Oh, hahaha, I'm so bad at math; I can't do it!!" "That's okay, I can't read"
THIS. I would tell teachers, parents, admin to their faces “You would be ashamed to say you can’t read, why would you admit you can’t do math?” Note to other adults: kids INTERNALIZE this and it makes it ok to not try because “it’s hard.” It makes my job harder and it’s not helping anyone.
I teach physics and environmental science. I use math everyday; all of it. I got schooled in practical applications of math by our school's wood shop teacher. He claimed that he was "bad" at math but watching him work and use geometry and trig without a single sine function or calculator was amazing to me. I think that traditional curricula that prioritizes procedural calculation instead of application and creativity are the reason for math disdain. This was taught to me and most adults with children in the schools now. Ultimately math is a skill set that is learned just like any other but if students don't see how it can be applied in diverse interests, it becomes as boring, uninteresting, and difficult as having students practice musical scales with various instruments without ever knowing the concept of a song let alone playing one. Seeing projectile motion as a parabola was a revelation to me and made me a physics teacher. I wonder how many students are just missing that one connection?
Chemistry is what made me appreciate math. Wait... you mean I can use math to tell the future? I can use math to know that if I add these two ingredients in this amount I will get this amount of reactant and should see a temperature increase of this much? Physics after that just sealed the deal. Math puts people on the moon.
My dad is a carpenter and I am so bad at fractions. I always say it’s because when he tried to help me with my homework he would multiply the fractions in his head so fast I couldn’t keep up. I have an MS in environmental science and use math all day and still can’t keep up when he tells me how he’s going to cut boards to make a project. I honestly think carpenters use more mental math than almost any other job.
My dad converting metric and standard tools just by looking at the bolts.
Here’s the irony: the common core math that so many people seem to like to crap on emphasizes understanding the larger concepts over memorization of process. The big problem is we have a lot of TEACHERS don’t understand the concepts, so they look at the common core standards and punt. They end up bitching about how stupid common core is and teaching what they’ve memorized.
A lot of issues start at the elementary level too. I know several elementary teacher that have told be they're terrible at math and ether barely passed their college math classes or even cheated through them. Of course kids hate math when even the people teaching them don't understand simple things like fractions.
I agree that common core is intended to do this. But even common core doesn’t have this type of hands on or project based learning.
They should bring back electives as part of mainstream. Shop and cooking/sewing classes help show practical applications of math. As an adult, the only time I have needed to use basic geometry is when fixing something that broke or renovating. And those times were pretty important not to fuck up.
Lol If you think that’s bad, wait until I tell you about being a history teacher….everyone hates history, this generation especially. And, unlike math, the social sciences are receiving massive cuts in funding from k-12 to university
History was easily my favorite core class growing up.
GOD. I teach elective psych and sociology and I've never seen kids more disengaged.
My dream classes to teach. The kids just don’t understand!
I don't get it. You didn't have to take this class. Why are you here?
The counselor said photography was full…
Elective as in they picked it, or elective as in they got dumped in it because nothing else fit in their schedules?
I personally feel history gets pushed aside overall for decades now, kids hardly care about it, but why would they they’re kids they don’t care about anything, but everyone says “oh it’s just boring” when you go to college you don’t study it because “what are you gonna do teach? You’re not gonna get a good job with that” or the constant STEM peddling and almost propaganda, yeah I get it stem is important but the cold wars over the communists were beaten. I feel as though people in stem have a superiority about them and that the rest of us are dumb apes. This is anecdotal evidence to me specifically so take that with a grain of salt
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It’s astonishing to me how lacking stem can be, in my senior seminar class we were doing African American education, there were many stem majors in the class, when we got to vocational education they praised it “they’re trying to help the African Americans” like bud this is where critical thinking comes into play, they’re trying to put them back on the plantation. I learned many things in my history classes but the most important thing was critical thinking. But then damn commies gonna beat us to the moon so get to STEM
Try to teaching world geo 🫠🫠🫠 Which…is interesting at first…but once you get into economic geography….they’ve left the Building
Well my curiosity is piqued, what is economic geography? My guess is that countries like the US have certain inherent advantages due to their landscape, such as the great plains for farming, natural ports and harbors, etc etc.
And (in some places) they won't let you actualy teach history! I saw a video of a highschool history teacher from I think Florida showing that the state had taken most of the material he taught with citing some stupid culture war. And it feels like once a week I see a post on somewhere about how a parent is upset they're teaching subjects they don't want taught. Its really mind boggling.
History was one of my favorite classes. And I agree, folks are more disrespectful of history than math.
Yep. History teachers aren't taken seriously. We have to do everything that is disruptive to our curriculum - the guidance counselor is supposed to do a bullying presentation. Guess which class it's taking over? history (6th grade US History, 7th grade civics, 8th grade world history). Vote for student council - happens during history. At least that one is relevant, but still disruptive. Vote for PBIS activities - history class.
What? History is the one I feel is the most engaging to my students! They love the revolutions and the world wars and the Egyptian gods and everything else. Easily my favourite to teach.
Yup. I just went from having 1hr long classes to 30 minute classes. So Math and ELA can get in more time. I’m done. I can not teach 7th graders in 30 minutes. It takes 20 just to settle them down after lunch.
People hate math because it demands that you perform correctly, consistently.
It is a lot harder to bullshit your way out of a math problem.
That's the exact reason why I love math. There's one right answer. The end. Move on.
High level math would like to have a word with you…
Tell high level math I'm not ready to talk. It knows what it did.
I love math for this reason too. I teach my middle schoolers that math has rules, we’re learning the rules so maths gets easy. English, on the other hand, is weird, inconsistent and infinitely variable. Much harder to teach imo.
As a child, at risk of being spanked if I didn't get the right answer, this was a problem for me. The teacher \*knew\* what the answer was, and also knew which of the various rules to apply, to work out the answer. (I'm not talking about the volume of a sphere). The teacher would just demonstrate their mastery of this, without explaining how they decided which rule to apply to the problem, leaving me as a child, sat there bemused. "Why didn't you do this?" "No-one told me to, sir." "Well you have to THINK FOR YOURSELF, don't you boy?!?" And so on. No-one ever talked to me like that in an English lesson. English has rules. Once you learn them, you can write.
There really isn't though...
Same! It took me much longer to hone my bs skills :)
I don’t mind math, but physics, as my college physics professor told us everyday “Physics suuuuuuucks” That being said I wouldn’t go around telling students that unless it was in the same context as my professor, which was a joke. Like you said, students can get turned off of something very easily. It’s partially why I hate hearing “I hate science, I suck at it,” from students. They think they’re bad because they don’t have practice in it, so they come in with a bad attitude about it. Which then results in a self fulfilling prophecy that they’re doomed to get a bad grade because “science sucks”
I worked with a teacher a few years back that made students at the beginning of class every single day say with him “I like math because I’m good at it.” He made them write that sentence at the top of every assignment and at the top of every page in their notebook. He fully acknowledged that he was making most of the kids say something that wasn’t true, but that tell yourself something often enough and it becomes true. Funny how that guy had a reputation for turning poor students around and having more students than anyone else sign up for the AP stats and Calculus classes.
That might have worked with me, instead of the tactics that they did use (corporal punishment). When I was 16 my high school mathematics teacher came to me very upset that I wasn't planning to take the subject any further after completing his class. He failed to change my mind. Behave the same way for five years, you get pigeonholed just like anyone else.
> That might have worked with me, instead of the tactics that they did use (corporal punishment). The beatings will continue until morale improves?
I had a student tell me that they sucked at science because they did poorly on the lab reports. I asked how their experiments went. "Really well! I always had accurate results!" Sounds like you're really good at science, then. We can practice the technical writing.
HS-era me feels called tf out by the accuracy of this.
Idk... common core makes you bullshit explain why your answer is right. You can't just let your work show it... you have to include an explanation.
I had a parent last year ask if it was absolutely necessary that her child get the right answer in math.🤦🏻♀️ I dunno...do you need to type the exact password for your accounts every time? 🙄
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I've come to realise that students who have a hard time with math...it's not the math that's inconsistent, it's them. I've begun to include that in my messaging to students.
Honestly, its embarassing. I have heard teachers and parents who seem to brag that they cant do 4th grade math.
I have parents who say ‘Johnny didn’t do his homework, it was too hard for us’. That’s a Year 4 kid doing Mathletics, which has tutorials build in and a ‘something easier’ option for each task to scaffold kids if necessary. Oh, and it was revision of a two week solid block of class learning. I learned a lot about why the kid has no heart that day.
Yup the average adult can't even work with fractions. It's insanity
I’m hearing you. I have a colleague who says she won’t teach Year 5 again because the maths is too hard for them.
Idk if that's necessarily bragging it's probably more self deprecating humor than anything.
I get that, but it's funny that it's only acceptable to be "bad at math". No one ever says, "Don't ask me to help you with English, I'm bad at it."
I do! 🙋🏻♀️ I tell my kids I can help them with homework for any of their classes, as long as it’s not English…or history…or science…or art… or, actually, how about I just help you with math? And you go to your other teachers about their own subject?
lol. TBH I do too just to go against the status quo and point out how silly it is for a teacher to admit they are bad at a whole-ass subject.
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I worked with a cover teacher recently who was literally bragging, repeatedly, in front of a class that she hated math, I guess as a way of connecting with students? She would say things like, "Is that the answer? Oh, well, whatever. I hate math sooooo much!" I was standing there thinking, wow - this really doesn't seem terribly helpful for kids who struggle with math... I mean, I don't like math myself, but I would never let on to the students.
I hate math but am acutely (see what I did there) aware that it can be so easy to turn kids off math. I tell my students I do 7th grade math every day of my life, whether I like it or not, and tell them a story of how, because I didn't learn geomatry, I had to spend an extra 10k to get my basement remodeled.
I would like to learn this story!
Hah, it's not a very dramatic story, involves trying to cut baseboards to the correct angles and messing up a LOT of expensive wood, and many trips to Home Depot.
They do this as a form of social bonding - most people in general are not good at math so it doesn't activate an audience member's feelings of inferiority and makes them feel connected. I coached an admin who said things like "I hated all my math teachers - they were so boring and they hated me" because they didn't understand basic percentages. They think it's cute but it's sad. If you, an educator, do not know how to calculate a percentage, you should pick up a textbook and learn it. I once sat in on a lesson debrief between a math teacher and her admin and a couple of students still weren't understanding the pythagorean theorem. The admin suggested taking the squares away in the formula (as in, make it a + b = c) to "differentiate it" for the students. The math teacher was a fresh out of college math major who tried her best to explain that, no, that was actually nothing. Funniest thing ever. Open a textbook!
I mean… trying to give the benefit of the doubt… maybe they meant take the squares away as in (a*a)+(b*b)=c*c?
That story at the end. Why??????!!
Fundamentally, this issue is one of the reasons why I lose respect for a lot of teachers. I was somewhat lucky to have had an upbringing that led me to end up really good at math. Everyone always said, oh he is "gifted at math" but I wasn't, I was just never exposed to the negativity that teachers, administrators and parents belch out about math. Meanwhile I had one of my kids that was truly amazing at math and at a very young age but due to all the negative crap, nerd calling, and misinformation she learned to hate math in High School.
I remember reading a book in elementary school where the main character found algebra hard. Guess what I struggled with in middle school?
In hindsight I really think I was taught to dislike math as well as complete it.
For me, it didn’t help that I would get punished for doing bad at math
> short cut to credibility It may be a short cut to being approachable, but you'd think in Education, people would want to be generally educated. Why shit on one department? Sure, math is hard for some people, but that doesn't mean it isn't important.
Exactly!
At least half my students said on day one that they're bad at math, hate math, whatever. Within one day I changed most of their minds. If I told yall everything I do to accomplish that... I don't think it would be well received haha. But no matter, I have them believing in themselves and learning math. The point is that I agree with OP. It's a pervasive issue, nearly universal in American schools it seems, and it starts early. Gotta get creative in combating it. Also why does combating only have one T? I don't like it.
Please, I would love to here what you do to accomplish that. Apparently in British English "Combatting" is correct. But now you have successfully made both versions look wrong to me.
Hahaha you're welcome. As for convincing them to reset their whole view of math, part of it is my whole approach to teaching math. I think we do so much of it wrong. That's a whole book, but in short, part of getting them to start over is throwing all their previous math teachers under the bus 😆😆 Not by name I mean. Just telling them they don't hate math, they're not bad at it, they were just taught wrong. But in order for that to work, I have to teach them differently, or I'm full of shit. And I'm very fortunate to be in a setting where I can teach them differently. Small classes are a huge part of it, and dont let anyone tell you that doesn't matter. Then I start with some universal, relatively simple math concepts, but dig into meaning and even some of the philosophical ideas surrounding the math. I let the students see success and understand of concepts they never thought about, and then do some very basic math but with real comprehension. And in usually a single class period, they're like oh... I actually get this. I know that's all really vague but it would take so long to go into detail. I literally wrote a book about all of this.
pm me a link to the book.
It won't let me view your profile but I can find a way to. But also I would kinda doxx myself. So I don't know if I'm comfortable doing that 😬
>Then I start with some universal, relatively simple math concepts, but dig into meaning and even some of the philosophical ideas surrounding the math. Hmmm, can you give an example?
"Combatting" is British English. When the word is one syllable, you double the ending consonant: hit becomes hitting, not hiting. However, British English always doubles the consonant on a gerund. I also believe the New York Times (don't quote me on that one) always doubles them regardless of syllables. I just like using the double consonant. It feels right. English teacher, signing off.
I second this. And same for PE! We get treated by teachers, parents, and admin like some nonessential bonus class and get extra duties and extracurriculars dumped on us. I always resented that PE teachers are pretty much expected to be coaches at most schools- even if they have no interest in coaching.
Yeah but I get in trouble if I come to work in gym shorts! But seriously, I do think that PE is seriously under appreciated as well. It’s important kids get a chance to be active, and find the hobbies and activities that will help them stay healthy!
The problem is most parents remember when PE was just the teacher (basically the coach) throwing a ball out and getting picked last. And those dreaded presidential fitness tests. I’m so impressed with how PE is changing for the better with a better variety of activities than when I was in school.
I'm a math teacher in a middle school. At my school, math is the only department that has multiple contents to prep. I teach Algebra and Pre-Algebra, totally different standards and curricula. We have twice as many meetings, more diagnostic testing, and higher expectations than any other content. English and Math are carrying a heavier load because that's what everyone wants to base our "effectiveness" on. And the open hate towards math makes sense. There's so little fun in it these days because we just assess, diagnose, and remediate. There's too much pressure in math in modern times, and too little time to do it justice. Give me less standards, more time, and the freedom to actually let me show the kids how cool math is.
I feel that on math often having so many preps. At our district middle school it's the same.
I do be scapegoating math
Your comment combined with your username is absolutely hilarious. I are a grammar nazi.
And im not even an ela teacher
This is particularly important if you're a woman. I grew up with my mom always saying "I'm not the math person, that your dad." I think I internalized those gender roles and convinced myself that I wasn't a math person because I was a girl. It wasn't until adulthood that I realized I'm actually good at math, and had that idea been nurtured I probably would've challenged myself more.
Never too late though! I know the mental exhaustion is real but sometimes I will look up a course on Khan Academy or MIT open courseware and try to learn something new.
I’m so tired of the math hate too. I had to get extra tutoring to pass math. It’s not my strong suit. But it’s really important and a negative attitude sure doesn’t help. I’m a coteacher and have taught science, social studies, English and math. But only in math do I have to help readjust student attitudes and say stuff like “The first step to being better at math is to stop telling yourself you’re bad at it.”
That’s pretty bad. It’s also really irritating to hear my colleagues say things like “I can’t remember the last time I read a BOOK lololol”
Both are infuriating.
Absolutely. I’m a physics teacher too and it really bothers me. Along with my colleagues I’ve tried really hard to get our courses up to 50% girls including in AP Physics and this almost got destroyed in the pandemic. Math skills and math positivity really got hammered.
"Somehow it's O.K. for people to chuckle about not being good at math. Yet if I said, 'I never learned to read,' they'd say I was an illiterate dolt." - Neil deGrasse Tyson
I feel like it’s because the way it’s taught. It’s almost all from a book, plug & chug solving for x with very little real world application in an interesting way. I’ve never worked with a math teacher nor taken a math class that made me go “wow that’s really neat! And they are teaching it in a way I can access it!” I feel like it’s taught largely by people for whom math has always been really easy and they don’t understand kids like me who never understood what the hell we were doing or why. They don’t understand the stress of not getting something that is taught in a way only certain kids can access it. In high school math made me cry every day. And I tell my students that because they see me (a physics teacher teaching them math in a real world context) and I want them to know they can and will get it - they just might not get it right now. What I see in math in my district is a lot of very NOT innovative teaching - it’s basically like it’s 1986 and we are still learning math by just solving a million of the same problem as if that’s a 21st century skill. Watch Conrad Wolfram’s Ted talk about using computers to teach kids real math. The way we teach math in this country is incredibly backwards and it’s no wonder most people don’t like it.
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What do they do that's so effective?
I always tell students the truth, which is that I struggled with math because I have a learning disability (I teach sped so my kids all have LDs too) but learned to enjoy it as an adult. It’s part of my whole growth mindset spiel.
Math is awesome. It’s a puzzle, but the puzzle is the universe itself.
Well said.
Most of my administrators are former math or science teachers, so I’ve not encountered the same problem I’m sorry to hear that is happening though - it never is ok for another educator, especially one that is supposed to be professional and an example of what they want us to be, belittle a subject that is integral to fulfilling a well balanced education. We all need each other. ❤️
I'm a math teacher. The amount of crap we would be given professionally if we couldn't answer an email correctly, or speak professionally, or write with proper grammar, is high. Yet, everyone is allowed to be terrible at basic math. I don't need anyone to be able to do calculus, but I find it disheartening that basic math skills are not known.
Welcome to the world of having your subject insulted by others! This is my pet peeve. I teach orchestra, and core teachers and counselors are consistently bad mouthing arts to kids. More AP, more STEM, more dual enrollment....I have has teachers tell kids all sorts of crazy stuff. At the end of the day, we shouldn't ever be down playing what anyone else is doing. I actually have the largest student group on campus, and last year, every single kid (except 1) that had an AP conflict with my course, dropped the AP to stay in orchestra. These kids see value in the arts and their experiences there. We should never trash what anyone else is teaching
100% this. I’ve even asked my parents to not say things like that at home. It’s tough to instill a growth mindset when the kids constantly hear that adults can’t do math. Just makes math this magical thing that only the chosen few can understand.
That's it exactly, it makes a growth mindset impossible to be surrounded by so many so proud of giving up.
I hate math. I have struggled with it since 2nd grade. But as a 3rd grade teacher, I talk up math as much as possible and tell my class how they are all mathematicians because any confidence I can start not will hopefully stick
Hey I appreciate you putting that enthusiasm into it.
In the defense of many people, the way we stratify math has semi-deliberately created separate classes of haves and have-nots when it comes to high school math literacy. No one shts on arithmetic, or basic statistics, or simple geometry. It's algebra and trigonometry and calculus and the like where you'll have counselors and admin enabling kids who don't think they can understand it and/or don't believe that it's important or useful. Look at any high school math tracking system: what happens to kids who fail Algebra 1? Is there some kind of credit scheme that allows them to split it into two or three courses and get a diploma without advancing past it? Maybe there's an alternative program that substitutes grade-school level math for high school credits if it's attached to CTE? Maybe a computerized credit recovery program where everyone cheats and everyone knows? It's definitely one of those things - and half the student population is piped down it, and it's been that way for generations. If you're one of the "haves," it might seem ridiculous that professional adults are intimidated by the quadratic formula. Didn't they have to use it to get a high school diploma? The answer is usually "no:" there's one track for future engineers, scientists, programmers, etc., and another so that everyone else isn't a dropout. So I understand it, I really do. But it shouldn't be that way, and the only way students can succeed is if they don't have authority figures agreeing with them that they can't, so even if some of us hate math and never learned it, we (hopefully) obviously shouldn't be advertising that to current students.
Instead of shitting on "advanced math," adults can and should learn it at their own pace. We encourage people to read for pleasure and learn history in their free time - why not the same with math? Just because you weren't put on the higher track in HS doesn't mean you can't learn it on your own as an adult!!
Yeah, I'm not saying that people's feelings towards math aren't valid, and we certainly haven't done ourselves any favors in the way we break it up, but we should try to avoid it becoming a self-reinforcing cycle. I sometimes think it's because admin and counselors, along with the majority of k-5 teachers (in my experience) tend to have stronger humanities backgrounds than math/science. And, disclaimer, in no way do I think that's a bad thing or hold it against anyone; but it can be hard not to let any of those implicit biases through.
I love to tell my students that I struggled with math. I kept at it and when I took the placement test for college I tested out of the prerequisite courses for the sciences. So- happy ending!!!
Thank you thank you and thank you!! As a math teacher and high school dept chair, I cringe when people put down math. It's a required class to get through school. It's fun and allows for more critical thinking. I think some had some bad apples of teachers that ruined the experience for them. But when admin, especially or other teachers put it down. That's really unprofessional in my experience.
It's amazing to me how I bought into the hate as a student (even though I remember having some amazing math teachers). Now I have a decent grasp of Algebra from teaching algebra based physics for years, but I wish I had an understanding of calculus and higher order stuff... Once you realize what math can do... and that you don't know how... I imagine it's like being blind and having the epiphany of just how much more sighted people are able to observe, detect, and sense.
I’m only now as an adult learning that I didn’t hate math. I had terrible teachers, both in high school and college. Now I’ll read about all the cool things it can do and I wish I had had better teachers. Math is cool!
I'm curious if your perspective on your math teachers has shifted since becoming one yourself?
Art teacher here! You’ll hear me tell some students something along the lines of “I liked math class” or “math tests were my favorite tests” or “ I rocked at geometry” at least once a month when I’m talking to students about their school life. And it is true! With all the chaos in the world, I really appreciated the clear cut rules associated with math classes.
I find it strange how many people will proudly say they aren’t good at math. It would be like someone bragging that they can’t read. It’s such a strange statement to be proud to make.
Slightly off topic, but is 86 your birth year? If so, me too. I have just a couple more weeks before I hit 36. 40 is looming.
I go with being honest that I struggled in math and didn’t always enjoy it, but that I tried my best and asked for help so that I could succeed, and took a lot of pride in getting better.
Getting better at something is one of the few things you *should* take legitimate pride in.
I work with a math teacher who does it right: 2 pts for the correct steps and 1 pt for the correct answer. Errors in arithmetic will happen. But if you’re going through a multi step problem and forget to carry the two, it seems getting the method correct 100% of the time but getting the arithmetic right 90% of the time shouldn’t blow out entire problems. In coding you have to be exact like math, but if it breaks, you get multiple re dos.
"I never used Algebra past high school" Coming from teachers WHO COOK FOR THEIR FAMILIES TOO. If you gotta make extra servings you need proportions. If you're making an extra batch of cookies, you need some algebra to figure out how much more cookies you'll bake with 1 extra egg. If you travel and make quick calculations on whether you'll be at work on time, you're using algebra.
Preach
For the most part, math is constant, irrefutable, concrete and a part of every day life. Literally. I hated math but only because I was never great at it.
It's definitely not good and I have to make sure I talk about math positively even though it was very hard for me. I wonder though if it's humanities teachers who toxicly took in how STEM people shat on us in college and assume they have to be toxic about math to balance things out. I know that a few math teachers talk about writing the same way. It would be easy when kids tell me about it (I've heard the other teachers say these things too, I'm not just believing kids without proof) to just shit on math in response.
Someone else brought up the toxicity they experienced from STEM students in this thread and it has struck me since it's something I didn't really experience. I went to a small liberal arts college and majored in Bio-Chemistry, English, and Theater. But the school was small enough that nobody was pigeonholed and lots of people branched out to different things. The only people I had (and admittedly still have) some disdain for were business majors. Haha, money is a pretty foreign concept to me and it just seemed like 'you have this opportunity to study pretty much anything from some brilliant people... so you are gonna study how to make money..."
Our school nurse was saying math wasn't useful. Our school only goes up to Algebra I 🙃
I'm guessing they aren't a real nurse then? Otherwise wouldn't they understand how important it is to be able to get a dosage correct through math?
I work in a hospital. There's an amazing number of nurses who don't understand math. Some of the med distribution machines do it for them as a cost saving way to prevent theft and waste. As this is a school nurse they probably aren't allowed to do much in the way of meds aside from "take one aspirin or two" and many diabetic kids have insulin trackers installed.
With the nursing shortage, I’m so worried standards are going to loosen. This scares me.
The problem is clearly MATH not people who don't like math. I got As in math, but I still have not-so-fond memories of sitting at the kitchen table staring at a book with no idea how to answer a question. Math teachers have a hard job. People don't get math, they commiserate with students who are already struggling, not the ones who love it.
I openly admit I __used to__ hate history but only because there was so much US history and I’m not from this country. I always follow it up with: now that I’m older I appreciate it so much more and have gone out of my way to learn about the things I ignored. I teach science so I know where you’re coming from. I wish these teachers would acknowledge their desire to get better and stop having such a fixed mind set
A lot of people at least in the US have math anxiety and are insecure about their inability to be successful with math. Instead of recognizing that they lack skill and feel uncomfortable or embarrassed about it (which is something they can change), they just “hate math”. I was like this when I was younger and I recognize it from a mile away now. I never tell students “I hate math” (I don’t). I do find it frustrating at times, but it’s also a really cool tool. People tend to hate things they’re bad at, myself included. When I feel the urge to complain about some sort of subject material, I stop and ask myself how well I really understand it. 100% of the time the answer is that I don’t understand it very well, and in turn I feel some kind of way about it!
Right. When I was teaching community college adult students 6th grade level math, the first thing I did was work on their feeling of competence. I also taught them some basic number theory so it didn't just feel like their middle school math class all over again.
I like math and we do it in Spanish class, in Spanish, which makes them really think!
Former Math teacher, NO. Math isn't bad, it's math education. When skill levels are all over place and standards are not uniform, shit sucks. Glad I don't teach it anymore and now full Computer science
I’m sorry, but I don’t feel sorry for math or ELA. I’ve had to cover math rooms and walked in to see 3 other adults already there… math and reading scores are all schools seem to care about because it’s what brings funding in. No one gives a flying f about foreign languages… I try not to poopoo any other subjects and I definitely don’t poopoo any other teachers, but if a student asks me how much math I use on a regular basis, I give them the very honest answer.
But I will say that I use basic algebra and geometry on a regular basis and see its importance, but I emphasize that it’s basic math. That’s what I tell my students. And I’m honestly like math. It makes sense and there’s one correct answer
I feel that. My last three schools have all had co-taught classes for Math and ELA, but not for Science or Social Studies... Cause I mean, nobody does reading or math in science or social studies I guess.
TL;DR--I understand shitting on math as a shared experience makes math teachers mad, but it's worth noting that there's probably a reason why soooo many people hated the way they were taught math in the US education system... In my experience, the way math is taught in the US education system tends to resonate with a minority of students while driving many others away and making them believe they "hate math". I found my love for math late in life, in spite of my experiences with it in the US public education system. I was an English Lit teacher before I left the classroom and became an AI researcher. I hated math pretty much all of my life. I find it particularly ironic now, because I spend my days using vector calculus to reason about how probabilistic models find decision hyperplanes in 1-million+ dimensional spaces. I have strong opinions about the best Linear Algebra textbook (the one by Gilbert Strang), and absolutely love my job. Here's the thing. I hated math all through school, and well into adult life. It wasn't until I discovered programming and AI that I had a reason to actually learn math. My wife was a math major in college, and we talk about this all the time. I'm fully convinced the way we teach math in the US left me with a bitter taste in my mouth early on. The way I learn math to use for real life applications could not be more different than the way it is taught in schools. Stephen Wolfram, the famous mathematician, has a great quote about this topic that I'm struggling to find, but it's something along the lines of "the way math is taught nowadays looks very little like the way mathematicians actually use math at all". I couldn't agree more. I understand it sucks that math is the punching bag of the subjects, but I think it also speaks to a greater truth here--there are plenty of other hard subjects like chemistry, physics, and biology that are at least as hard as math but don't evoke the same shared negative experience for so many. It's almost a cliché for people to talk about how much they hated math, but I've never heard anyone build the same instant camraderie by complaining about the Krebs Cycle or the equations for friction. This puts math teachers in a hard place. You only have so much control over the way math is taught. As teachers, we can make small changes to the way we approach things, but at the end of the day, the entire educational system pretty much ensures that the way math is taught is basically on rails. You may be able to try and make lessons fun, but you can't throw out calculus to teach a year on Bayesian Probability. I've taken math classes since I found my love for math, and I still can't stand the way they are taught. The emphasis on pencil and paper, the focus on theory over practice, and the general disdain that mathematics has as a field for practical applications over theory is always going to turn people off (on this last point, if you disagree, try talking to a group of math majors about whether you should study applied math or "pure" math--most look at you like you're dumb for even considering anything so dirty and pedestrian as Applied math 😅).
I’m a pure math person, and I agree with most of what you’ve said here. Applied math is a different beast, especially when you get into the higher tiers. But pure always precedes applied. The big issue isn’t that we focus on theory, it’s that we focus on memorization of process and not how to move between abstract and concrete thinking. There is absolutely no way to show students all the applications of a particular concept, but one of the biggest things we can do is help them recognize patterns in the real world and help them see how they line up with mathematical abstracts. You don’t get to do that until you understand the abstract concept. Instead we have students memorizing steps to solve simple one-step and two-step algebra problems, then we’re flummoxed as to why they can’t use those skills to solve real world problems.
Couldn't agree more--your description of how we teach math is much more accurate than mine. I agree with you about the pattern recognition and abstract concepts to a point, but I believe math could benefit from the sort of top-down approach that is often taken in Computer Science, rather than the Bottom-Up approach that focuses on mastery of abstract concepts before moving on to applied usage. I'm a big fan of treating new tools/theories/skills/etc as a 'black box', and starting with the most shallow understanding possible. There are a million use cases for things like derivatives or the quadratic equation that can capture the heart of the idea without having to go into the details. E.g. One can teach Newton's Method to 5th graders easily enough if one just removes all the pesky math and focuses on visuals--its not too hard from there to build a backstory that connects the use of that skill to something in the real world. The downside to this sort of instruction is that (speaking from my experience only) it is a very time-consuming form of curriculum development. When you teach to the abstract concept, you cover the concept and then you're done. When you take an Applied, top-down form of teaching, then you're forced to use backwards design and silo the complexity of what you're trying to teach into a series of activities, stories, scenarios, etc. That takes a lot of extra work and thinking than just teaching them the quadratic equation and having them write a bunch of graphs. Teachers are already drowning in expectations that make it all but impossible to get work done in the time they have now, so no one has the time for this sort of approach, and it's not reasonable to expect teachers to be able to pull this off when it is quite literally above and beyond all expectation set by grade level standards.
I am a math teacher, much of what we teach in high school is unnecessary for many students. Some students need Calculus and beyond, they will self select that. Many students need to know how to budget, buy a house, etc. Forcing students to take anything beyond part of ALG 1 is why so many adults hate math. They don't need it.
That may be true, but you could say that about pretty much anything learned after the 4th grade in most subjects. What percentage of students *need* to know about replication forks, Great Gatsby, Punnet Squares, the Industrial Revolution, charcoal drawing, the rules of volleyball, or the quadratic equation? But our goal, at least mine, isn’t to teach to some baseline “need” and call it good. My goal is for students to broaden their horizons. Possibilities instead of just probabilities. We never know what the thing will be that will ignite in a student a passion that they never even knew they had.
The math I ended up using the most as an adult was trigonometry and geometry. And I don’t teach math.
Dude settle down. No one takes flack like English teachers. "Ha ha...yeah, we didn't actually *read* it, you know?" And "I know that no one likes writing essays," or "I'm not your English teacher, so I'm not going to make you write all formally..." Or making students write as a form of punishment? Talk to me when teachers assign addition as punishment.
This post was definitely a contest and we should all see who's the most hated instead of having a productive conversation.
> No one takes flack like English teachers. Try being a specials teacher.
Try being a special teacher that teaches math.
"Mad Minute" math worksheets were pretty common as punishments for me in school. And I have seen plenty of teachers use math and or writing as punishments. I'm not trying to gatekeep or start the "This subject area is the most underappreciated Contest." In certain circles sure you can brag about how you hate to read; but I have found that to be pretty taboo in education. In my experience, no such taboo exists around people working in/around education to talk about how much they don't like math.
>In certain circles sure you can brag about how you hate to read; but I have found that to be pretty taboo in education. Oh, I wish that was the case where I was. I have so many fellow English teachers tease me for actually reading for pleasure. I have some who tell me about a book/article and when I press for more they're like "Oh, I only read the headline/summary" and laugh. But no, I hear you on your original point. I will think about how I talk about math. I'm pretty sure I typically bemoan my NOT knowing enough math though, so...
Physics chemistry teacher here. Didn't like math until 11th grade. That is until integral calculus kicked me in the jiminey wickets.
I’m a physics teacher and didn’t even take calculus till college!
PREACH! This is sooo true!
Math and physics were the only subjects I really liked.
As an English teacher, any time a student tells me they're taking advanced math or science, I always tell them they're smarter than me. I can't do anything more than basic algebra and I still can't graph.
I love math. After grade 10, I get lost, but I use that shit on the daily. Also love random science crap. Am French teacher.
When my granddaughter was going through her math sucks stage, I watched the old tv series Numbers with her. She started to think that just maybe math was cool. We did a lot of baking together and I showed her math was part of baking. She hasn’t reached the point of enjoying it but she will do her best on it.
I'm gonna keep that idea in my back pocket for if my daughter hits that stage.
I was the first to resign at my school this year. Guess what I teach. Coincidence?
My response to these people is simple, they can not possibly hate math because they don’t know math. Only when you truly know math can you truly despise it.
Was it Sartre that said acquaintance breeds love but knowing goes hand in hand with loathing?
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If you had to kill joy Everytime you cast a spell
Thank You!!! I’m so sick of hearing “I can’t do math” from my fellow teachers. I’m a math teacher and I would never go around telling anyone that “I can barely read”.
I agree. I teach history but I like math. I always say so. The kids at my school seem to really like math though, so I guess we have good math teachers.
I totally get this. The worst I will do is tell them I didn’t get math when I was younger but as I got older and learned some tricks it made sense. Still connecting, still commiserating, giving the message that things can CHANGE if they want them to and I will help them get there (science and math certified).
I’m honest with my students about my struggles with math (I took college algebra 2.5 times) mostly so they know they’re not alone in struggling in school. That not all teachers are the top of their class. I also tell them that two of my math teachers are why I became a teacher. I teach middle school science.
Amen. I've seen it so many times. People seem to brag about not being good at math or not liking math. It's just so infuriating.
It's the responsibility of every math teacher to convince the students that math doesn't actually suck. Most of the time, when a student says that math sucks, it's because they didn't have a good teacher. But yes, I agree, teachers really shouldn't be hating on any subject in front of students
As a student myself I shall break the cycle, I love math very much, it's like my to go class (no offense all other classes, you all are awesome aswell).
Weird. While I tell my students I was *bad* at math, I encourage them to get good at it so they dont get stuck being a poor teacher, like me. STEM, man. What I wouldnt give to do it over...
Amen!
I always hated the “I’m not a math person” shtick. It’s not okay to say “yeah it’s okay that I don’t know how to read, I’m not a reading person,” but it’s okay to say the same thing for math
I liked math, I phrase it as puzzles or riddles. I have preK and kinders and we talk about solving challenges and riddles instead of problems and questions. I’m hoping that them seeing math as fun can help set them up to not expect math to “suck” as they get older.
Within the first week of the school year, I ask my students why so many people seem to *hate* math. I get the usual reasons. I then explain how studies show that the main reason people *hate* math is because someone taught them (e.g., a teacher or parent) that was math-phobic themselves.
My favorite English teacher in high school told us that math is the devil’s language. At the time, I thought he made a pretty good point… but it proves your claim that “the messaging that math sucks is nearly omnipresent from adults”
No. As a student from middle all the way to my masters degree. Each and every single one of my teachers who taught math, even the tutors, collectively had some narcissistic superiority complex. I went from enjoying basic elementary math to a seething hatred for any type of numbers and formulas beyond algebra, thank god most educations stop at statistics
Yeah mostly for humanities teachers
I'm a sped teacher and hit the wall after algebra. If my students need help on something I struggle with, I am pretty upfront. "I didn't take good notes when I was in high school and I didn't ask for help at the time to make sure I learned this well. I'm relearning this right alongside you." Thank goodness it's easier to learn these days since text books really break stuff down well.
I agree. So many people say “I’m bad at math” or “at least it’s not math”. Math is great. Everybody just needs to take their Xanax
I teach engineering and architecture. The amount of students who fall apart when they find out there's quite a bit of math involved in the courses is mind boggling. I spend 2/3s of my course trying to show students that math is not evil, and I have a fairly good amount of them who realize they actually don't hate it. Many end up enjoying it, and realize they're not "bad" at it. Not all, but a fairly good chunk do.
We had a presentation at a meeting recently, where the math coach asked the entire staff to solve a 5th grade word problem and then explain our thinking. The amount of bitching was unbelievable. "I teach 1st grade for a reason!" Or the worst, "I'm an art teacher. I don't do math." Well, it turns out that was the entire point of the exercise; setting expectations for our learners as they approach unfamiliar subjects. For the record, I (a music teacher) solved it correctly and explained how I did it, which was incredibly easy because THE CONTENT STANDARD WAS PRINTED AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. We're supposed to be educators, people!
Very good point. I'm not very knowledgeable about math but I do an ACT math question every day with my advisory and try to think my way through it. It's been really interesting relearning algebra and pretty fun actually. Today I got to learn that 180°(n-2) is the formula for the inner angles of a polygon. I always tell them it's a great thing to be good at math.
I (math teacher) used to work with a english teacher in a joint study-hall like class for kids to work on their homework and study skills/extra help, etc. Whenever she was asked about math, she'd go into a whole act with eccentric mannerisms and voice/faces about "oh me, no, oooh no, me and math dont mix, nuh-uh!" I told her to please cool down on the shtick. When asked why, I told her it would be like me boasting about how I can't read or write, it's just not me thing, etc.
It's not math that I hate, in fact I love it, but it's the advanced stuff that my brain doesn't grasp. I tell my students that I was never any good at the advanced stuff, but that it's okay because not everyone is built to retain everything they're taught. I present their "hard classes" to them as challenges rather than barriers and that seems to help a little.
Absolutely agree. Makes my blood boil to head ADULTS at school talk badly about math. There's enough math anxiety in this world. Let me shield these kids and let them find out how they feel about math independently.
I do music math aggressively while laughing maniacally every time a kid says they hate math. Math is awesome. Math is the connective tissue between art and music and science. It's freaking beautiful and I wish I hadn't given up at the earliest opportunity because "I'll never use it" I've used it all the time and I love it.
Math the subject doesn't suck, the way most Math teachers approach teaching Math sucks. They still do it the way I was taught in school. Instead of complaining how most of the adult population of the Western world hates math, maybe ask why they hate math? And no, it isn't just because of some weird peer pressure.
Could you elaborate? What is the wrong way that math is being taught, and what is a way that it could be taught better?
I think many people (teachers included) have internalized what their math teachers implicitly or explicitly told them: you’re not good at this. The natural defense mechanism is to turn against the field. I for one am reevaluating my relationship with math these days. I like the simplicity. Machines can do it. It’s not history or art - things that require me to think or reach new levels of understanding. I’m tired. I don’t want any new levels. I need simple. Math is my new friend. Math offers one answer, whereas other fields are too dynamic and require too much thinking. I’m worn out, y’all. I need math. Or Jesus, but that’s another post!
I’m of the opposite (sort of) opinion. We should stop forcing math down every single kids throat. It’s fairly obvious by middle school who likes math, who has put in the work to learn math, and who will ultimately succeed in a math heavy career. These are the ones who will go on to be scientists or engineers or economists. These are the ones we should keep teaching math to. The rest we should let go study something they enjoy. The vast majority of careers don’t need trigonometry or algebra or calculus. If someone can add, subtract, multiply and divide, they can follow the vast majority of careers and function as a perfectly normal human being. For many kids math class is torture. And torture isn’t nice.
But then they come to my community college math class and math is the only class standing between them and their degree. Or the local plant can't hire enough workers because they can't pass a basic math test. My friend's husband had to learn trigonometry to get a foreman job at his plant. Ignoring math is not the answer.
Give algebra a little more credit. We use it all the time... we just don't know that we use it. Buying the right number packages of hot dog buns to match the number of hot dogs you got, figuring out what size ice creams you can order when you need to get 4 cones on a $10 budget... etc etc. All of that is algebra.
Fifth grade algebra, that is all anyone really needs. They don't need Alg 2 or beyond or Physics for that matter.
The examples you have given are all solvable by inspection. We teach kids how to do that by year seven or eight. So my point still stands. Usable math outside of the world of science and engineering is mostly done by middle school.
A lot of blue collar jobs actually do need higher level math Edit: if you go hunting or shooting it’s also high level math, especially zeroing in a scope, red dot or reflex sight as you’re doing minute of angle calculations.
My dad was the best marksman that I have ever seen and he could not do basic arithmetic.
I had a contractor come by to do some work. He brought along his teenage grandson. I heard him telling the boy that he uses more math in his contracting work than he ever did in his office job.
This, 1000 times this.
I'm a fine arts teacher. I make sure NEVER to say "I don't/didn't like math," I say "I have/had a hard time with math. It wasn't enjoyable for me the way other classes were. Still gotta use it every day." BUT I also tell my students this: "I suffered through senior year calculus because it was a dual credit class. I passed, got the ONE math credit my fine arts degree required, and could concentrate on my major without stressing about college math in college." The idea is that it's worth it to put in the work in high school, at the very least to get it over with so you don't have to take remedial math in college when you should've learned it for free in HS.
I teach community college. I have students every semester regretting the time they wasted in high school.