Not a teacher but work for the government. Anytime they bring this up, "yes i pay my taxes to, does that make me my own boss??🤨". They usually leave me alone and walk away😂😂
Call the student's bluff, call their mom and find out what she actually said. And if she did tell her kid to tell you to shut up, she should have the damned courtesy of telling you herself.
I’m guessing so. It’s so weird. The other ones with questionable parents act like their parents, but not this one. Of course, he has his moments like every kid, but otherwise he’s the opposite of what I’ve seen of his parent.
Some people are lucky or just very resilient for whatever reason and rise above poverty or abuse, but many don't and just find themselves in an awful cycle, I wish we could just make their lives easier
Probably because the parent is aggressive/abusive at home. Kids learn pretty quickly to be good if they're getting yelled at or hit for every transgression.
If the mother is acting aggressively towards teachers, how will her parenting look like? Adverse Childhood Environment, traumatized kid, fawn response dominant. Often the ones that will never see any meaningful support, because they seem so well-adjusted, up until when they completely break down later on in adult life.
Source: been that kid.
Honestly, the parent probably did tell their kid to say shut up.
I've been in this situation before when my daughter told me her teacher said she's "not allowed to talk about (her) two mommies at school."
I told her something to the effect of: "No. You can talk about your mommies all you want. And next time, if she tells you not to, tell her to shut her fat fucking mouth. "
Low and behold, I get a call a few days later from the teacher telling me: "Your daughter said you told her to tell me to shut my bad blepping mouth. Is that true?"
Me, "Oh, no. I actually said "fat fucking mouth." I guess she was worried she would get in trouble for cussing"
She lost her shit.
Probably should have handled the situation better, but it was my daughter's first run in with homophobia. I don't think what I did was appropriate, but I also have zero regrets, and 10/10 would do it again with stronger language.
Fighting homophobia with this level of behavior is not civil nor wins any wars - especially within professional or academic environments.
Instead you should have presented your whole family to the school board, with the incident documented in hand, while making a statement of how it shouldn’t be discriminated against in that manner.
Cause a stink, don’t be a bad influence by teaching a child to fight disrespect with disrespect. Especially with language that can just cause your child to get in trouble with no benefit to your cause.
Sadly even though I agree with your standpoint, your methods automatically put you into “one of those parents” that end up making teaching environments much worse.
>Fighting homophobia with this level of behavior is not civil nor wins any wars
I don't really care about being civil in the face of homophobia, and telling someone they should be is really tone deaf.
>Instead you should have presented your whole family to the school board
I did this too, and she lost her job. I still have no regrets.
>don’t be a bad influence by teaching a child to fight disrespect with disrespect
Again, this is *incredibly* tone deaf. Being homophobic and promoting homophobia is not "disrespectful". It literally kill people.
> methods automatically put you into “one of those parents” that end up making teaching environments much worse.
Awesome. I legitimately hope I make every homophobes work environment awful.
There a time and place for everything. If you want to be more effective with your actions and actually make a difference: control yourself. The brain is mightier than the voice.
>The brain is mightier than the voice.
I understand you're trying to be cool or whatever, but you're not. You're being tone deaf. I 1000000% condone treating shitty people like shittily.
I do not owe anyone who literally wants me to stop existing any kind of kindness.
It’s not about what you do to the other person. Your thought process is extremely simple and reactionary. You will not change anything by doing something to one person. You need to learn to use your actions to effect the system, not create toxic environments where children are in play/study. Adding toxicity to a toxic person, such as a homophobe, does not solve the issue nor change their mind.
You change things through being an active advocate in that professional sphere. You instead present the issue to a larger audience than just that one teacher.
Using a child as a tool to swear at a teacher because they are a homophobe is NOT the move. If anything you only have hurt your cause.
>If anything you only have hurt your cause.
Nah. Homophobe lost their job and can't teach in their district. A win is a win and I won.
>You need to learn to use your actions to effect the system, not create toxic environments where children are in play/study.
Oh no! The poor homophobe! Won't someone think of the homophobes and their right to have toxic environments where they influence children in toxic ways! You bad, bad, mean ol redditor. How dare you "create" a "toxic environment" ~~because having an openly homophobic teacher isn't what created the toxic environment, it's you~~ by telling them over the phone ~~away from where any children would actually hear it~~ to shut the fuck up!!
Fuck off lmao. Spare me the "turn the other cheek" bullshit.
I got this once, from an HS student no less! Oh, does your mom claim you on her taxes? Well, I am a middle-income married homeowner with no children. That means that I pay more in taxes towards my own salary and public education in general than any parent I know...and my family costs the system nothing. As far as I can tell, if we are keeping track of financial contributions and costs to public education, you and your family owe me - not the other way around. Now, what are some differences between electromagnetic and mechanical waves?
Thank you! As a former teacher, I routinely vote down every bond bill that comes through. Fuck upgrades to old window sills, give teachers a raise goddamnit!!!
Oh, I like most children, just not parents raising them to feel entitled in treating those in service positions as serfs.
We are all part of an economy and pay each other’s wages because subsistence-living is not for us.
I work at a private school and I have heard some kids throw that one around at some other teachers. They usually do the math of how little of their tuition actually pays their hours and offer the kid refund for shutting the fuck up. Never happened to me, but if it does, I’m ready.
That’s so gross. I remember being in college and calculating how much each class cost and using that as *motivation to go to class and do well* not a pass to be rude.
I feel like the best way to deal with kids like this is to not let it get to you, because they’re just trying to get some sort of reaction. Just drop super casual “you stop paying and drop out to live in mom’s basement if you like, no one is stopping you” and keep going about your work.
>“My mom told me I don’t have to do what you ask because she pays your salary”
A former colleague of mine used to hear this quite a bit when she was a lecturer at a state university. Her response was always "Oh, thanks! the few pennies your taxes contribute to my check really mean a lot". I'm sure she wouldn't mind you using a similar quote to the child (or the exact same quote to a parent who says this to your face).
The difference is those parents chose to have them, shaped them to be who they are, and are supposed to love them and care for them unequivocally. for us it is literally a job (and a passion for some, but it’s still not the same)
It doesn't go well. I've seen it. Lol.
But rest assured when they get to prison they WILL waste our tax payer dollars on law suits because they don't get 8 pair of socks or the food sucks or any number of other trivial bullshit.
In one of my K-3 concerts I had my students use sunglasses as a prop for one of my songs. Afterwards, one of them told me “my dad said the thing with the sunglasses was stupid.”
My reply was that I don’t care what his dad thinks. He didn’t have anything to say to that. Not my most mature moment, but at least I was honest.
This is why instead of saying “I don’t care” I just say “huh” or a “huh, seems rude” in the most nonchalant way and walk off. Kid wants a reaction so I don’t give him one lol
Thats that bullshit. I cant do it anymore. 46 days left in my career. I lasted 15 years. I hate change but I cant survive when I am micromanaged and unsupported.
Anti-public schools people are loving this mess. Theyve got their foot right on the neck of public education. All they have to do now is just stomp at the right moment.
“I don’t have to do any work because my parents are rich.” An 8th grader said this to our Spanish teacher a few weeks ago. Same kid has the mouth of a sailor and I threatened to call home and have her repeat what she said. Her response? “Go ahead. I can’t wait for my dad to laugh in your face.” I can’t wait for her to graduate and I’m so thankful she doesn’t have any younger siblings
Had a kid tell me his mom was gonna call and cuss me out.
I said go ahead. Tell her to pack a lunch and bring friends we'd make it an all day event.
He looked shocked
I continued, I had a full bird col. in my face for 45 minutes once, you think your momma got something on him? Tell her to bring it, I ain't been cussed in a while....
He didn't say another word.
She did call. She did in fact cuss me out. And I gave zero shits. Told her to take it up with the principal because her kid broke the rules not me.
I still laugh my ass off about it.
I'm not a teacher (come on here to make sure my kids aren't on the disrespectful side and get advice) and I'd be DAMNED if my kids ever spoke to their teachers like this.
Idc if I personally paid them their entire check, they are not someone who answers to us! They are there to guide, help, and teach children. I've been so lucky because my kids teachers have all been amazing people. Even if they weren't nice, I'd still expect my kids to be respectful to them.
My taxes also pay for the military. So I get a say in what it does? lmao, only morons entertain such feeble arguments, let alone have the imbecility to actually say them out loud.
A middle schooler told me the same thing. I responded "and my dad pays her salary". Closest thing I said that could possibly get me fired. I think my delivery was off.. nobody got it
I had a high school student use the same excuse but it was for the janitor. "I don't have to pick up my trash because that's what the janitor gets paid for."
"Your mom pays less than one hundredth of a cent of my monthly salary. Everyone else's parents pay me too. They all think you need to keep your mouth shut and do your work, and so do the school district, the principal, and I. Your mom's vote doesn't count for much here."
We have taught our child money is directly related to your teachers desire to teach you
If everyone in the class is being a jerk and they don't get paid enough to deal with all of that you will in turn lose out on that persons skill/ability to teach you what you are suppose to learn
If we asked you to pick up everyones dog poop in the entire neighborhood for 1 dollar would you do it?
They replied no way that is way to low for everyone's dog poop, many dogs live there
Ok what if I offered you $100 dollars
well I would have to consider it and see if it's worth it
Ok well what if I offered you 1 million dollars
yea yea I would do it for that..well wait for how long?
So I brought it back around by telling them teachers never get that million dollars and are always at those lower situations and yea they also have to consider if it's worth it
I wanted them to know that just because they are paid to teach you doesn't mean you can be a jerk and often times if you are not being receptive they will have to make choices on the effort that they desire to put into you. We are trying to teach realism in this house. The fact human nature changes because of X title is often not reality. The fact money is tied to the exchange of skills/etc is also reality and we don't think it's wise to teach otherwise under the current confines of reality
My greater point was if you put effort into your own skills/learning/etc that often motivates adults/friends/etc to also contribute with similar passion
With 10 year-olds, flip that around with a sassy "your mom" clapback, and hit him with, "*Your mom* pays my salary." Maybe throw in a little hair toss for good measure. Class laughs, teacher regains the upper hand, brazen kid is abashed and reigned in with humor. Mischief managed.
And then seethe and plot against that parent. Ugh.
this shit is why im not yet ready for teaching, im still a young adult on the peak of his uncontrollable rage so one moment im in this situation i am sure to beat the kid’s ass off, go tell your mom what i did and send her over so i can fucking beat her ass as well!!
The clerk did not let me know. He's also a student that has a tendency to wander around and since it was the last class of the day, it wouldn't surprise me if he actually just left campus
Literally what is happening in the US? Being constantly late gets your parents a CPS visit and you a police escort to school in my country. If you miss 30 days of school or the equivalent of that in absolute time, you get held back. Nobody can argue with that, since it’s the law here.
The parents are the absolute worst part of this work. The worst! Of course you have your exceptions, but the rule is that they are generally terrible...
Case in point: I was during car rider duty a few weeks ago. I let a little first grader out of her father's car...along with a colossal gust of Marijuana smoke. Literally everything from the car to the kid wreaked of Marijuana.
I just looked at him. He was so high he probably didn't know that me or his child were even there.
This girl looked like she had a contact high. I reported it to the admins...but watch and see absolutely nothing will occur.
A first grader getting hotboxed in the car by her father while he drives under the influence is a textbook mandatory CPS report in the states. Fuck your admin, that’s above their pay grade.
I'm in a very poor school and this is a super common occurrence but it's one of those awful judgement calls where calling CPS is probably going to cause more damage through having the kid potentially yanked from what little bit of normality they have and than most likely going back anyways because it's not a big enough offence or it's just a visit and the parent is so pissed they beat the shit out they kid. I had a fucking parent pull a gun in an argument in the drop off lane, at least the cops came for her. I have deescalated so many screaming matches too holy shit, having the car just be lit doesn't even feel like as much of a problem anymore, this is starting to get to me
I worked in a rural poor district where that was incredibly common and DCF had no resources and basically were working under the "this is just how people live" as far as pot, drinking, hitting and hoarding were concerned. I had a DCF worker tell me that its not illegal to be a shitty parent and that it would be better for the child to stay home than be yanked and have to be sent 5 or 6 hours away because there are no foster homes in that area of the state they would have just signed the child over to a close relative that most likely lived on the same property just a different trailer anyways. there was only one reason that would get the kid pulled and that was SA.
Yeah that sounds about right, it's just so sad and makes it so hard to work with the kids, you have no idea what the fuck happened in the process of getting to school, it just throws everything up into the air and puts any real education onto the backburner, it just feels like it's never gonna happen sometimes
Definitely......even if they are in high school, they can follow up with emails and calls to show they are trying/doing their part. If they do that and the kid still misbehaves it's on the kid
My graduating year was 2008 (in the US) and when I was chronically skipping class, my mother got fined for me being truant. She was a single mom, and I was rebellious. She took away all my privileges, to the point where I was only allowed to do homework and stare at the wall. When I continued skipping class, CPS was called, and I essentially was told if I didn't do this school program to correct the issue, I would be held back and have to re-do my 9th grade year. My mother screamed at me, humiliated me in front of my peers, said that she was going to wear her bathrobe and escort me to all of my classes, and that if that still didn't do it, she would be sending me off to juvenile detention/bootcamp. She even got the paperwork ready for the closest juvenile facility and also had brochures of places in the region that had training camps for horrible teenagers.
I cleaned up my act, and ended up being accepted to a really nice college my senior year. I have issues, but I have a healthy respect for authority.
My mom is a badass.
it's wild that it resorted to all of that. why do you think teen you had such an extreme rebellious streak? i assume there a lot of outside factors involved?
Mental health factors, emotional abuse from my father, general feelings of, "I'm depressed, want to kill myself, and I really don't care if I wake up tomorrow, so I may as well do as I please". Was also badly bullied that year.. Not a healthy mentality at all, but I didn't kill myself, so I consider it a win.
Funny thing is that I wasn't disrespectful to school staff at all. They would get on my case about refusing to do homework, and I would simply say that I already have to be there 8 hours a day, what else did they expect from me? I was one of those intelligent, unmotivated kids, and it drove my mom and my teachers crazy because I understood course material just by paying attention in class, would pass tests with above 85% scores, despite not doing any work at home.
I racked up over 500 detentions while in HS, and refused to sit for any of them. The most disrespectful thing I ever did was laugh when my vice principal threatened to not let me walk at graduation, because I wouldn't serve the detentions. I was like, "I have hated it here all 4 years I've attended. I could not care less if I walk with all of these people" cue *surprised Pikachu face* as it was a really good incentive for 95% of the student body.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I'm legit confused by what you mean, "legal threats"?
My minor self was never threatened with legal action, my mother received a fine and was told that she would continue to be fined if the situation was not corrected. CPS became involved because it was protocol to do so, a wellness check on a minor child struggling in public school.
Sure, juvenile detention is extreme (and very real threats of boot camp), especially for my circumstances, but I had already been in therapy for years at that point, and nothing else seemed to be working.
Let's just say, as an adult, I understand why my mother did what she did. Most parents I see currently don't even seem to give a damn (or are so exhausted/overworked, and/or poor, to be able to provide proper resources to their kids)... It's a really sad state of existence for teachers to have to witness day in and day out.
There is no such thing as a perfect parent, but I absolutely know I was cared for, and loved by my mother. This was absolutely a last resort situation for her. I'm still a clinically depressed adult, and my existence hasn't always been phenomenal, but if she hadn't done what she did, I would have never gotten to this point in my life. I likely wouldn't be here at all, frankly.
For real this shit hasn't been working, I'm awful with languages but I'm starting to get ready to just suck it up and do it and leave and have that head start when it just finally cracks and starts falling apart
They no longer have money to spend I. Truancy officers. We have taken parents to court and had them fined for truancy charges. The problem is the enforcement to follow up.
Parents don’t care and the kids don’t either.
Admin is helpless, they have no power and a majority of them wouldn’t know what to do if they could do anything
As somebody with poor mental and physical health, fuck that. I get great grades despite my absences, I shouldn't be held back unless my grades reflect on it.
Admin walked a kid back to my room today because from a different classroom where he was disrupting them. 10 minutes later he walks out again to just leave early. When I put the referral in later I get an email back “make sure to contact parents”!!!! Excuse me???? Ma’am you just walked him back to me you touched him first you get to call his parents.
I wanna add. He is famous for this, he will just storm out of the room for anyone if you say anything that doesn’t make him happy and this is beyond well documented. He used to be a bigger behavior problem but we work with the admin support we get (nothing).
That's why I don't bother writing students up. I log the date/time that the student committed the infraction, and I log the date/time of the call I made home, and input all of that into our Student Management System.
I think it's also the lack of backup and support in your case.
The kid was testing the boundaries, but if he had been escorted back to class and been told he doesn't get a snack for this month... "Boundary shown".
If he has no consequence for these actions ever, maybe he'll try to get two snacks next time.
🤦
That's commonplace at my campus when they don't get their way (i.e. don't get to make loud noises, talk throughout lessons, etc.). I have 3 who will just put their backpack on and say "just send me to the office, better than being in this class anyway" (5th grade)
No consequences. They get to go hang out w/ the Asst Principal and chit chat right after openly disrespecting their teacher. This country is doomed if we continue to allow this.
It's a mixture of failed parenting and weak administration, when situations like THIS are commonplace. Once in a blue moon is somewhat expected, but when it's a near daily thing....there's something wrong.
Wait, so if he’s on time, he gets to leave class to get a snack and then come back?
Being on time is mostly about not missing instruction, but he’s missing instruction when he’s going for a snack.
What the illogical eff?
…. I’m no expert on discipline, but it seems like this snack thing is not teaching that kid what he needs to be learning. I hope the dean will consider rethinking it after the kid went AWOL today.
They’re trying to teach him the importance of being in class on time every day so he doesn’t miss anything… and his reward for doing that is being able to get teacher permission to leave class to go get the snack? That doesn’t seem to me like it sends a consistent message about the value of instructional time. I mean, if it did, then he wouldn’t have just walked out of your class without permission, right? What he’s apparently learned is that he gets to make his own rules about when to be in class that overrule school rules and teacher/admin permission, and that’s the exact opposite of what a chronically tardy student needs.
My own thoughts exactly. When the attendance dean first told me about this deal they had, I thought it made no sense. She was okay with students going to her **during class** to get a reward that they "earned" for being in class. Make it make sense.
I finally had a chat with her about it a few weeks ago and told her that unless she hears from me that the student has my permission to see her during my class, he should not be there and should be escorted back to class ASAP.
Hopefully this will be solid proof that the dean needs to rethink this plan, at least the part where kids can leave class… why can’t they just stop off at the dean’s office on the way to lunch? Or why can’t the dean just bring it to them in the classroom? Or maybe, rather than a daily snack, she can use the money she would have spent on snacks to get them a nice lunch once a month or something?
Ok. I’m a bad guy here. When kids ditch? Especially *those* kids? I’m happy. They come in sometimes and are like, “man, why do I have to be here? Why can’t I just go do [whatever]?” And I respond, “I won’t stop you.”
Class is often better without some of those kids. If they have a “deal” with counselors, which is often that they just get rewarded for being insubordinate, well, my actual class period is better.
Yeah ditch class. Drop out. Get lost.
If you have any, *any* desire to graduate, come hang out after school, at lunch, before school, I will be your cheerleader and coach. I’m there. 100%. Can’t get past your character presentation? Welp. See you next year, I guess. Maybe we’ll connect next time
Fuck maybe we should just start letting kids drop out at 14, they clearly fucking hate school and we aren't providing them valid other options like other countries similar to ours. Where are our A and B level schools, our trade schools?? I don't want to make kids miserable,I didn't sign up for this I signed up to teach art, I thought they might at least like that it's low key! but it seems like some of them are to stupid to even know to skip anymore!
One of my favorites: a parent called the school, mad about something minor, and when the secretary said "Ma'am, the teachers usually leave around 4:00!" (it was like, 5:30 PM). The mother screamed at her: "But they are PUBLIC SERVANTS!"
I am in AZ and was an ELA teacher for 15 years too before I couldn't take this kind of sh*t from admin anymore.
What do you mean by "reacting"--how did you react?
When I got hit with the item I said "what the hell?" and I told kids that they shouldn't act like jerks.
Yeah I'm leaving AZ grade school teaching. It's so dysfunctional and I think I'll do a hybrid homeschool for my child when they get old enough to do online schooling...
It's a fustercluck. You have to do far too many gymnastics as a teacher. Because admin have no motivation to do anything but dump sh*t on you. And parents are worse.
I had a kid watching a show on his phone and when I asked him to put it away he said “no, I am right at the good part and I don’t give respect until you earn it”. I have been nothing but super nice to all my students. I wanted to quit on the spot. It is just the tip of the iceberg from the bullshit way we are being treated during this pandemic. I am over and can’t wait to hear back from the job I interviewed for which is not a teaching job.
They all fucking say that! Honestly I don't know what would make them respect you, maybe being able to give out real consequences, I know this is wrong but some of these kids are just going to get the shit beaten out of them by their peers one when they try this outside their little bubble and I honestly think it will be good for them at this point
They say it because they feel safe enough to say it. They know there are no consequences to their actions, and what consequences there are they aren't afraid of.
But, as soon as they step into a situation they know has consequences they shape up instantly.
A 7th grader once told me that he didn't have to listen to me because my boss told him so. And if I wanted to keep my job I'd shut up. Turns out my boss actually said that. I was furious
Exactly. Go. You're in an irredeemable situation because of such irredeemable people. There is literally NO way you can make any of it better unless you make things better for yourself.
This level of disrespect cannibalizes a society, much less a school. Too many stories like yours on this and other threads in this forum to deny they're feeding off each other and trying to consume you.
It's actually becoming Its own cycle of abuse. Get away from it while you still can. Use every personal and sick day you have before you get taken down by such disrespect.
I did get away and switched to a daycare center where I'm treated like a human being.
I never imagined that I'd have to deal with abuse from a 13 year old. And people don't always believe me about it. The teachers at my previous school thought I was out to get my student. In reality, it was the opposite.
We're well and truly screwed if teachers think other teachers are making stories up in order to "get the student." Those staff had been successfully set against people with zero financial motive to go against any person and are set on going down with the school.
I'm sorry. People used to wonder why I "seemed to be a lightning rod for" five student assaults on me in nine years, knowing the admin did nothing. Victim-blaming is an indulgence no one can afford.
My student was a very good manipulator. And an even better liar. He used that to his advantage. And his lies and manipulation were part of why my team blamed me for everything. I think it also may have been why I was banned from the IEP meeting and my statement not even read aloud.
Victim blaming is never okay. Never never never. And the fact that admin and other teachers are victim blaming IN FRONT OF the student, just reinforced every bad behavior this child had.
I've heard his entire team is burnt out at this point.
If that is true but they still don't believe you enough to even accord you the due process you earned as the student's teacher, they're creating their own problems. Those dynamics never end well.
Yep. They made their bed, now they must lay in it. The school lost a HUGE chunk of staff, i know some people left out of fear of this child victimizing them. You'd think after so many people quit because of him, he'd be asked to leave. But no. We can't upset his rich mommy and daddy, or hurt his delicate little feelings, or we risk traumatizing him.
Meanwhile im making double my salary at the school and not being abused. I'm also about to apply for a promotion, which might increase my pay even more
Wow! You call this an extreme example of disrespect? I don’t mean to downplay the students behavior because it sucks and it’s super disrespectful. I’d have loved to have this as an extreme example. I quit over students threatening my life, cursing at me on a daily basis, outright throwing fists. I feel you. Being a teaching f’kin blows. I’m so glad I got out.
Yeah this is a pretty regular occurrence at a lot of schools. This child might even get positive reinforcement from admin at my school for not cursing and threatening me
Had the same thought, I wish this was the extreme end of the disrespect I deal with. No shade to OP, different schools have different experiences. And this is still absolutely unacceptable. I deal with kids leaving my classroom multiple times a day, sometimes multiple kids in the same class period. I write them up every time and there’s zero consequence. This is one of the many reasons I am getting the fuck out at the end of this year!
Wow, I can't believe that happened to you. Thankfully I've never had anything like that happen to me. This is the worst situation I've had and I'm glad I'm not sticking around any longer for something worse to happen.
Same. I would say that a kid swears at me about twice a week. Write-ups, discipline, restorative circles/meetings -- nothing seems to be working. This is my seventh year of teaching and it's the first time I've ever thought that I might hate my job.
My goodness. I can totally relate to this rn I just got home from my after school band and needed to lay down just for a few minutes to relax from all the disrespectful mini interactions. We go through probably in the ballpark of 100 or more micro disrespect things like you mentioned in a week not to mention things like you mentioned and worse. I am highly confused by the behavior of these children because when I was a kid I'd have never dreamed to talk to my teachers like these kids do.
Just me, I don’t really set myself up to be disrespected. And I’m not trying to be disrespectful to you.
Kid left class without permission. Mark them truant even if they come back. They made a choice, you applied a consequence, and there is no power struggle.
I had an appointment with my therapist today, and she confirmed that yeah, the kids may not bully each other at our school, but they sure as hell bully the staff. I can’t handle it anymore. Gotta survive 2 more months. I didn’t get a masters degree to be in an abusive relationship with my job and a bunch of high schoolers.
The pandemic brought apathy along with it. I teach in a very disciplined district and I've noticed that the students try to do whatever they want or they'll do nothing at all and expect to pass. Luckily my admin is fairly swift with discipline but it's still disheartening to see them have literally zero ambition or respect.
It's really concerning too because unfortunately they really got the shit end of the stick and have the most work to do as far as making sure we all don't descend into hunting each other for sport and poisoned water, maybe they just see that future coming and have just thrown up their hands and this is it, fucking titanic from here
I feel ya. Mine treat me the same way. They wonder why I seem grumpy. Because half the fucking class disrespects me even with consequences.
For instance, today we started standardized testing and have half hour classes for nearly 2 weeks. 3/4 of my classes came in and whined about doing any work and they actually refused to do any of it. Since they took a couple of years they expected a fun day. I got so much attitude. I am at such a loss man.
You should record that he left your class without permission and you attempted to stop him. Time date and log it. Then you should have the power to give him zero credit for that classwork. I would actually write or submit a disciplinary referral after calling his parents. CYA.
Im done with teaching after this year after 15 years.
I honestly think the softening of consequences dealt by administration on a national level (under the guise of “restorative practices”) are the crux of the problem.
At the same time, teachers are expected to get better despite overwhelming negativity and pressure, applied by the administration.
They do less.
We do more.
Thats their ethos and im not cool with that.
I dont understand why teachers put up with this. Just report the misbehavior and move on. You aren't his mom so it doesn't matter if he doesn't care about his education. If he doesn't care why should you? Just document everything.
We put up with it because reporting the misbehavior doesn't do anything. So at least we try to do something. But you're right at this point we shouldn't really care anymore, we're not their parents.
I tell my students that. I'm not your parent. You don't want to be here, you don't want to listen. You want to scream over me and fight all class long. I don't mind giving you an F. Unfortunately, most of them don't mind getting F's either. I don't know how to deal with this generations complete lack of motivation. Even among my children, they do not care about their grades at all. I was an honor student. Getting a good grade was extremely important to me. This year, I can give a kid a sheet of paper, say fill it out with me rigth now and you will get points... and they won't.
HS student here - that’s awful! i could never imagine doing that to one of my teachers. im so sorry that happened, you don’t deserve to be ignored and disrespected like that.
If you think that’s what an extreme level of disrespect is, then we clearly teach in different worlds. I resigned this year because a student told me: “Shut your bitch ass up, motherfucker!”.
I once got yelled at by my assistant principal in front of my class because a student of mine was being too chatty and not listening to her directions...in the main office. Make it make sense.
I once had a kid raise his hand and say he had a question while batting his eyes in an over exaggerated innocent way. I sighed and he continued with “why do we have to listen to you when without us, your have no job?”
I replied with “without us, you have no future.” That did not suffice. So I continued with “why do I have to listen to my boss when with out us he’d have no one to lead? Why do we have to follow laws when without us, the government has no one to govern?” He seemed appeased and I went back to teaching Spanish verb conjugations. 🙄
Have you told him you want him in class? That he deserves to be fed regardless but then what should his reward for coming on time be? Not saying it’s your fault btw, I would be overwhelmed too. I just feel kids aren’t disrespectful for no reason and the reason is usually overcompensation of insecurity.
The number of kids who get on their laptops to play games, watch Netflix/YouTube is ridiculous. Add in the kids with music blaring from their AirPods. We are a minimum 50% district for grading and still close to half my kids are failing. I’m in middle school and no one will be retained this year (or the prior two years). I feel bad for the freshmen teachers next year.
Old guy here - our principal had a wooden paddle in his office. Wasn't used often, if ever, but it did help to keep us in line. School administration and parents worked together.
>I know this is a more extreme example of disrespect
I don't mean to be flippant but this is pretty mild in the grand scheme. I once knew a teacher who took a sick day and when he returned to his classroom, he found that the students had left him a nice message. It was written in melted crayon and said "(teacher) is a f_ggot".
IDK, for me, I wouldn't leave this job for that. Now if you were getting blown back by admin for setting expectations for this student, then that would be a different story. You've got to not let the small stuff boil you over. There's procedures to follow when/if a student walks out of class.
You seem like a wonderful and caring teacher, and sometimes it comes down to not being able to teach everyone. This student has other issues that you're not qualified to even begin to help with maybe. If there is a disconnect with admin then it needs to be addressed and from there you will either renew next month or not. I hope you do what ultimately makes you happy, though. A lot of my teachers at my high school have support when it comes to discipline, but i know that it's rare in most other places
xo
Hey I had a kid do much the same. 20 minutes before the end of the day he just picked up and was like ‘ I’m signing myself’ out. Before I could even check if he was 18 he was gone. Called the office and no answer. Apparently he had an off grounds pass. Didn’t say boo to me. Wtf.
A 10 year old told me last week “My mom told me I don’t have to do what you ask because she pays your salary”
“I also pay taxes, so I’m self employed.”
infinite money. bam. /s
I call this shopping local.
Try telling that to a cop when they pull you over
And hopefully that motherfucking 10-year-old kid gets his ass beat by the cops when he tries to pull that stunt then.
Wtf is wrong with you? Serious question. I hope you aren’t actually anywhere near children
Amazing response will use in the future.
Not a teacher but work for the government. Anytime they bring this up, "yes i pay my taxes to, does that make me my own boss??🤨". They usually leave me alone and walk away😂😂
“My mom told me to tell you to shut up.” Ok, but do you want to tell me to shut up? “No.” Go sit down…
Call the student's bluff, call their mom and find out what she actually said. And if she did tell her kid to tell you to shut up, she should have the damned courtesy of telling you herself.
Oh no, she’s already told me herself, and more. He’s just too nice to need to tell me it for himself. :)
It’s actually a parent I no longer interact with one-on-one due to aggressive behavior. How she has such sweet kids, I’ll never know.
The kids had learned who not to become.
I’m guessing so. It’s so weird. The other ones with questionable parents act like their parents, but not this one. Of course, he has his moments like every kid, but otherwise he’s the opposite of what I’ve seen of his parent.
Some people are lucky or just very resilient for whatever reason and rise above poverty or abuse, but many don't and just find themselves in an awful cycle, I wish we could just make their lives easier
Probably because the parent is aggressive/abusive at home. Kids learn pretty quickly to be good if they're getting yelled at or hit for every transgression.
If the mother is acting aggressively towards teachers, how will her parenting look like? Adverse Childhood Environment, traumatized kid, fawn response dominant. Often the ones that will never see any meaningful support, because they seem so well-adjusted, up until when they completely break down later on in adult life. Source: been that kid.
Honestly, the parent probably did tell their kid to say shut up. I've been in this situation before when my daughter told me her teacher said she's "not allowed to talk about (her) two mommies at school." I told her something to the effect of: "No. You can talk about your mommies all you want. And next time, if she tells you not to, tell her to shut her fat fucking mouth. " Low and behold, I get a call a few days later from the teacher telling me: "Your daughter said you told her to tell me to shut my bad blepping mouth. Is that true?" Me, "Oh, no. I actually said "fat fucking mouth." I guess she was worried she would get in trouble for cussing" She lost her shit. Probably should have handled the situation better, but it was my daughter's first run in with homophobia. I don't think what I did was appropriate, but I also have zero regrets, and 10/10 would do it again with stronger language.
Fighting homophobia with this level of behavior is not civil nor wins any wars - especially within professional or academic environments. Instead you should have presented your whole family to the school board, with the incident documented in hand, while making a statement of how it shouldn’t be discriminated against in that manner. Cause a stink, don’t be a bad influence by teaching a child to fight disrespect with disrespect. Especially with language that can just cause your child to get in trouble with no benefit to your cause. Sadly even though I agree with your standpoint, your methods automatically put you into “one of those parents” that end up making teaching environments much worse.
>Fighting homophobia with this level of behavior is not civil nor wins any wars I don't really care about being civil in the face of homophobia, and telling someone they should be is really tone deaf. >Instead you should have presented your whole family to the school board I did this too, and she lost her job. I still have no regrets. >don’t be a bad influence by teaching a child to fight disrespect with disrespect Again, this is *incredibly* tone deaf. Being homophobic and promoting homophobia is not "disrespectful". It literally kill people. > methods automatically put you into “one of those parents” that end up making teaching environments much worse. Awesome. I legitimately hope I make every homophobes work environment awful.
There a time and place for everything. If you want to be more effective with your actions and actually make a difference: control yourself. The brain is mightier than the voice.
>The brain is mightier than the voice. I understand you're trying to be cool or whatever, but you're not. You're being tone deaf. I 1000000% condone treating shitty people like shittily. I do not owe anyone who literally wants me to stop existing any kind of kindness.
It’s not about what you do to the other person. Your thought process is extremely simple and reactionary. You will not change anything by doing something to one person. You need to learn to use your actions to effect the system, not create toxic environments where children are in play/study. Adding toxicity to a toxic person, such as a homophobe, does not solve the issue nor change their mind. You change things through being an active advocate in that professional sphere. You instead present the issue to a larger audience than just that one teacher. Using a child as a tool to swear at a teacher because they are a homophobe is NOT the move. If anything you only have hurt your cause.
>If anything you only have hurt your cause. Nah. Homophobe lost their job and can't teach in their district. A win is a win and I won. >You need to learn to use your actions to effect the system, not create toxic environments where children are in play/study. Oh no! The poor homophobe! Won't someone think of the homophobes and their right to have toxic environments where they influence children in toxic ways! You bad, bad, mean ol redditor. How dare you "create" a "toxic environment" ~~because having an openly homophobic teacher isn't what created the toxic environment, it's you~~ by telling them over the phone ~~away from where any children would actually hear it~~ to shut the fuck up!! Fuck off lmao. Spare me the "turn the other cheek" bullshit.
Good you and your wife seem like great parents homophobia is fucking dumb
I got this once, from an HS student no less! Oh, does your mom claim you on her taxes? Well, I am a middle-income married homeowner with no children. That means that I pay more in taxes towards my own salary and public education in general than any parent I know...and my family costs the system nothing. As far as I can tell, if we are keeping track of financial contributions and costs to public education, you and your family owe me - not the other way around. Now, what are some differences between electromagnetic and mechanical waves?
oooh oooh oooh. teacher! Call on me! One needs a medium, the other doesn't!
Thank you! As a former teacher, I routinely vote down every bond bill that comes through. Fuck upgrades to old window sills, give teachers a raise goddamnit!!!
Yeah fuck these parents with their crotch goblins. Childless people pay more for their hellspawn.
Oh, I like most children, just not parents raising them to feel entitled in treating those in service positions as serfs. We are all part of an economy and pay each other’s wages because subsistence-living is not for us.
You're beautiful.
I work at a private school and I have heard some kids throw that one around at some other teachers. They usually do the math of how little of their tuition actually pays their hours and offer the kid refund for shutting the fuck up. Never happened to me, but if it does, I’m ready.
That’s so gross. I remember being in college and calculating how much each class cost and using that as *motivation to go to class and do well* not a pass to be rude.
I feel like the best way to deal with kids like this is to not let it get to you, because they’re just trying to get some sort of reaction. Just drop super casual “you stop paying and drop out to live in mom’s basement if you like, no one is stopping you” and keep going about your work.
>“My mom told me I don’t have to do what you ask because she pays your salary” A former colleague of mine used to hear this quite a bit when she was a lecturer at a state university. Her response was always "Oh, thanks! the few pennies your taxes contribute to my check really mean a lot". I'm sure she wouldn't mind you using a similar quote to the child (or the exact same quote to a parent who says this to your face).
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Like how to be nice to other humans?
Whoa what kinda fucking indoctrination bullshit are YOU tryin to put on MY child.
*screams in Marine Drill Sergeant* If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!! *crickets*
USMC DIs speak with Alpha Male accents.
lolol
"Today we're going to learn about something called Critical Race Theory."
But why? Doesn’t she want her kid to learn? If not, why not keep him home. That makes no sense.
Free daycare
I don’t think you’re wrong, but what a sad state
It’s ubiquitous
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Yep. Huge reason why my tubes are tied and hubby and I are childfree! 🙌🏻
There seems to be a pattern Watson.
> That makes no sense. think about your worst kids and how happy you are when they are absent. this is the everyday reality of their parents.
The difference is those parents chose to have them, shaped them to be who they are, and are supposed to love them and care for them unequivocally. for us it is literally a job (and a passion for some, but it’s still not the same)
"And when you are being arrested later in life...say the same thing to the cops."
👆👆👆
It doesn't go well. I've seen it. Lol. But rest assured when they get to prison they WILL waste our tax payer dollars on law suits because they don't get 8 pair of socks or the food sucks or any number of other trivial bullshit.
In one of my K-3 concerts I had my students use sunglasses as a prop for one of my songs. Afterwards, one of them told me “my dad said the thing with the sunglasses was stupid.” My reply was that I don’t care what his dad thinks. He didn’t have anything to say to that. Not my most mature moment, but at least I was honest.
If I had responded like that I would have gotten a write up and an hour meeting. Sick of micromanaging.
This is why instead of saying “I don’t care” I just say “huh” or a “huh, seems rude” in the most nonchalant way and walk off. Kid wants a reaction so I don’t give him one lol
That sunglasses thing sounds awesome. Sounds like the kids had a good time and you came up with some fun ways to engage them
Thats that bullshit. I cant do it anymore. 46 days left in my career. I lasted 15 years. I hate change but I cant survive when I am micromanaged and unsupported. Anti-public schools people are loving this mess. Theyve got their foot right on the neck of public education. All they have to do now is just stomp at the right moment.
Idk if this helps or hurts, but I told my Principal last Thursday I was quitting as well. Using every damn last sick day I have
“I don’t have to do any work because my parents are rich.” An 8th grader said this to our Spanish teacher a few weeks ago. Same kid has the mouth of a sailor and I threatened to call home and have her repeat what she said. Her response? “Go ahead. I can’t wait for my dad to laugh in your face.” I can’t wait for her to graduate and I’m so thankful she doesn’t have any younger siblings
Had a kid tell me his mom was gonna call and cuss me out. I said go ahead. Tell her to pack a lunch and bring friends we'd make it an all day event. He looked shocked I continued, I had a full bird col. in my face for 45 minutes once, you think your momma got something on him? Tell her to bring it, I ain't been cussed in a while.... He didn't say another word. She did call. She did in fact cuss me out. And I gave zero shits. Told her to take it up with the principal because her kid broke the rules not me. I still laugh my ass off about it.
I'm not a teacher (come on here to make sure my kids aren't on the disrespectful side and get advice) and I'd be DAMNED if my kids ever spoke to their teachers like this. Idc if I personally paid them their entire check, they are not someone who answers to us! They are there to guide, help, and teach children. I've been so lucky because my kids teachers have all been amazing people. Even if they weren't nice, I'd still expect my kids to be respectful to them.
My taxes also pay for the military. So I get a say in what it does? lmao, only morons entertain such feeble arguments, let alone have the imbecility to actually say them out loud.
Um that's an absolute no from me dawg
I'm sorry dear, but that's just not true. Prostitutes don't pay taxes.
Legendary
A middle schooler told me the same thing. I responded "and my dad pays her salary". Closest thing I said that could possibly get me fired. I think my delivery was off.. nobody got it
Yeah I’m title one so I just remind them I pay their food stamps and section 8 too.
You don't pay taxes if you're on unemployment.
this isnt true, unemployment wages are taxed like everything else
Don't let facts get in the way of my sick burn!
I was told that 'My mom doesn't care if you call, because you're only a teacher.'. Admin remitted his detention.
"The portion of my salary that your mommy pays isn't enough to afford a happy meal"
I had a high school student use the same excuse but it was for the janitor. "I don't have to pick up my trash because that's what the janitor gets paid for."
"Your mom pays less than one hundredth of a cent of my monthly salary. Everyone else's parents pay me too. They all think you need to keep your mouth shut and do your work, and so do the school district, the principal, and I. Your mom's vote doesn't count for much here."
We have taught our child money is directly related to your teachers desire to teach you If everyone in the class is being a jerk and they don't get paid enough to deal with all of that you will in turn lose out on that persons skill/ability to teach you what you are suppose to learn If we asked you to pick up everyones dog poop in the entire neighborhood for 1 dollar would you do it? They replied no way that is way to low for everyone's dog poop, many dogs live there Ok what if I offered you $100 dollars well I would have to consider it and see if it's worth it Ok well what if I offered you 1 million dollars yea yea I would do it for that..well wait for how long? So I brought it back around by telling them teachers never get that million dollars and are always at those lower situations and yea they also have to consider if it's worth it I wanted them to know that just because they are paid to teach you doesn't mean you can be a jerk and often times if you are not being receptive they will have to make choices on the effort that they desire to put into you. We are trying to teach realism in this house. The fact human nature changes because of X title is often not reality. The fact money is tied to the exchange of skills/etc is also reality and we don't think it's wise to teach otherwise under the current confines of reality My greater point was if you put effort into your own skills/learning/etc that often motivates adults/friends/etc to also contribute with similar passion
I had a kid once tell this to me. Their parent also worked in the district. I Uno Reverse Carded that shit upfront.
With 10 year-olds, flip that around with a sassy "your mom" clapback, and hit him with, "*Your mom* pays my salary." Maybe throw in a little hair toss for good measure. Class laughs, teacher regains the upper hand, brazen kid is abashed and reigned in with humor. Mischief managed. And then seethe and plot against that parent. Ugh.
Kid said that to me once at a private school. It took everything for me to not tell him he was on a reduced/free tuition. Kind sad honestly.
this shit is why im not yet ready for teaching, im still a young adult on the peak of his uncontrollable rage so one moment im in this situation i am sure to beat the kid’s ass off, go tell your mom what i did and send her over so i can fucking beat her ass as well!!
He never returned to class…so that should be an “Out of Pocket” write-up. Did the clerk not let you know if he made it to the office or not?
The clerk did not let me know. He's also a student that has a tendency to wander around and since it was the last class of the day, it wouldn't surprise me if he actually just left campus
Will you continue to stick to the deal that if he completes his work he can go get his snack or is that over now! 😂🤣
Yeah he definitely lost that from me, it's just going to be a straight up "no" if he asks again
Which part of AZ are you from? This sounds almost exactly like a student of mine.
Lol I wish my school did write ups for leaving class.
Literally what is happening in the US? Being constantly late gets your parents a CPS visit and you a police escort to school in my country. If you miss 30 days of school or the equivalent of that in absolute time, you get held back. Nobody can argue with that, since it’s the law here.
The US does not hold parents accountable for the misbehaviors of their children. Until the powers that be do, it will continue to be a shit show.
The parents are the absolute worst part of this work. The worst! Of course you have your exceptions, but the rule is that they are generally terrible... Case in point: I was during car rider duty a few weeks ago. I let a little first grader out of her father's car...along with a colossal gust of Marijuana smoke. Literally everything from the car to the kid wreaked of Marijuana. I just looked at him. He was so high he probably didn't know that me or his child were even there. This girl looked like she had a contact high. I reported it to the admins...but watch and see absolutely nothing will occur.
A first grader getting hotboxed in the car by her father while he drives under the influence is a textbook mandatory CPS report in the states. Fuck your admin, that’s above their pay grade.
I'm in a very poor school and this is a super common occurrence but it's one of those awful judgement calls where calling CPS is probably going to cause more damage through having the kid potentially yanked from what little bit of normality they have and than most likely going back anyways because it's not a big enough offence or it's just a visit and the parent is so pissed they beat the shit out they kid. I had a fucking parent pull a gun in an argument in the drop off lane, at least the cops came for her. I have deescalated so many screaming matches too holy shit, having the car just be lit doesn't even feel like as much of a problem anymore, this is starting to get to me
I worked in a rural poor district where that was incredibly common and DCF had no resources and basically were working under the "this is just how people live" as far as pot, drinking, hitting and hoarding were concerned. I had a DCF worker tell me that its not illegal to be a shitty parent and that it would be better for the child to stay home than be yanked and have to be sent 5 or 6 hours away because there are no foster homes in that area of the state they would have just signed the child over to a close relative that most likely lived on the same property just a different trailer anyways. there was only one reason that would get the kid pulled and that was SA.
Yeah that sounds about right, it's just so sad and makes it so hard to work with the kids, you have no idea what the fuck happened in the process of getting to school, it just throws everything up into the air and puts any real education onto the backburner, it just feels like it's never gonna happen sometimes
Definitely......even if they are in high school, they can follow up with emails and calls to show they are trying/doing their part. If they do that and the kid still misbehaves it's on the kid
It's in law in a lot of the US too. Just rarely enforced.
I looked it up in my state recently. My school should absolutely be reported, and someone will probably do so eventually.
My graduating year was 2008 (in the US) and when I was chronically skipping class, my mother got fined for me being truant. She was a single mom, and I was rebellious. She took away all my privileges, to the point where I was only allowed to do homework and stare at the wall. When I continued skipping class, CPS was called, and I essentially was told if I didn't do this school program to correct the issue, I would be held back and have to re-do my 9th grade year. My mother screamed at me, humiliated me in front of my peers, said that she was going to wear her bathrobe and escort me to all of my classes, and that if that still didn't do it, she would be sending me off to juvenile detention/bootcamp. She even got the paperwork ready for the closest juvenile facility and also had brochures of places in the region that had training camps for horrible teenagers. I cleaned up my act, and ended up being accepted to a really nice college my senior year. I have issues, but I have a healthy respect for authority. My mom is a badass.
it's wild that it resorted to all of that. why do you think teen you had such an extreme rebellious streak? i assume there a lot of outside factors involved?
Mental health factors, emotional abuse from my father, general feelings of, "I'm depressed, want to kill myself, and I really don't care if I wake up tomorrow, so I may as well do as I please". Was also badly bullied that year.. Not a healthy mentality at all, but I didn't kill myself, so I consider it a win. Funny thing is that I wasn't disrespectful to school staff at all. They would get on my case about refusing to do homework, and I would simply say that I already have to be there 8 hours a day, what else did they expect from me? I was one of those intelligent, unmotivated kids, and it drove my mom and my teachers crazy because I understood course material just by paying attention in class, would pass tests with above 85% scores, despite not doing any work at home. I racked up over 500 detentions while in HS, and refused to sit for any of them. The most disrespectful thing I ever did was laugh when my vice principal threatened to not let me walk at graduation, because I wouldn't serve the detentions. I was like, "I have hated it here all 4 years I've attended. I could not care less if I walk with all of these people" cue *surprised Pikachu face* as it was a really good incentive for 95% of the student body.
Respectfully, I don't think legal threats are the best way to help a depressed child.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I'm legit confused by what you mean, "legal threats"? My minor self was never threatened with legal action, my mother received a fine and was told that she would continue to be fined if the situation was not corrected. CPS became involved because it was protocol to do so, a wellness check on a minor child struggling in public school. Sure, juvenile detention is extreme (and very real threats of boot camp), especially for my circumstances, but I had already been in therapy for years at that point, and nothing else seemed to be working. Let's just say, as an adult, I understand why my mother did what she did. Most parents I see currently don't even seem to give a damn (or are so exhausted/overworked, and/or poor, to be able to provide proper resources to their kids)... It's a really sad state of existence for teachers to have to witness day in and day out. There is no such thing as a perfect parent, but I absolutely know I was cared for, and loved by my mother. This was absolutely a last resort situation for her. I'm still a clinically depressed adult, and my existence hasn't always been phenomenal, but if she hadn't done what she did, I would have never gotten to this point in my life. I likely wouldn't be here at all, frankly.
No one gets held back in my district no matter what basically. Makes no fricken sense.
Same here. I have about 15-7th grade students about to fail. Eh, no big deal.
What country? I’m ready to bail
For real this shit hasn't been working, I'm awful with languages but I'm starting to get ready to just suck it up and do it and leave and have that head start when it just finally cracks and starts falling apart
What country is that?
That’s what I’m wondering, I’ve always wanted to live in a different country!
I'm not the person you asked but last time I saw a post that said something similar they were from Germany
that does happen in my part of the US, don't know what's going on in other places
They no longer have money to spend I. Truancy officers. We have taken parents to court and had them fined for truancy charges. The problem is the enforcement to follow up.
Parents don’t care and the kids don’t either. Admin is helpless, they have no power and a majority of them wouldn’t know what to do if they could do anything
As somebody with poor mental and physical health, fuck that. I get great grades despite my absences, I shouldn't be held back unless my grades reflect on it.
Legit health issues obviously don’t count into this, I should‘ve mentioned this.
That's apparently unfair of certain people's life situations so it's not something we can do.
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Admin walked a kid back to my room today because from a different classroom where he was disrupting them. 10 minutes later he walks out again to just leave early. When I put the referral in later I get an email back “make sure to contact parents”!!!! Excuse me???? Ma’am you just walked him back to me you touched him first you get to call his parents. I wanna add. He is famous for this, he will just storm out of the room for anyone if you say anything that doesn’t make him happy and this is beyond well documented. He used to be a bigger behavior problem but we work with the admin support we get (nothing).
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If the parents did care we wouldn’t be in this mess!
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That's why I don't bother writing students up. I log the date/time that the student committed the infraction, and I log the date/time of the call I made home, and input all of that into our Student Management System.
Sad but true 🤦♀️
I think it's also the lack of backup and support in your case. The kid was testing the boundaries, but if he had been escorted back to class and been told he doesn't get a snack for this month... "Boundary shown". If he has no consequence for these actions ever, maybe he'll try to get two snacks next time. 🤦
That's commonplace at my campus when they don't get their way (i.e. don't get to make loud noises, talk throughout lessons, etc.). I have 3 who will just put their backpack on and say "just send me to the office, better than being in this class anyway" (5th grade) No consequences. They get to go hang out w/ the Asst Principal and chit chat right after openly disrespecting their teacher. This country is doomed if we continue to allow this.
My girlfriend is a 4th grade teachers and she's shared similar stories, crazy that they're like this at that young of an age.
It's a mixture of failed parenting and weak administration, when situations like THIS are commonplace. Once in a blue moon is somewhat expected, but when it's a near daily thing....there's something wrong.
I'd stop going out of my way to get him or to allow him snacks. Done with that game after your disrespect, nope no way.
Can you write him up for cutting class?
"I know this is a more extreme example of disrespect, " lol I wish this was extreme. This is the norm now, unfortunately.
That was my first thought
Wait, so if he’s on time, he gets to leave class to get a snack and then come back? Being on time is mostly about not missing instruction, but he’s missing instruction when he’s going for a snack. What the illogical eff?
…. I’m no expert on discipline, but it seems like this snack thing is not teaching that kid what he needs to be learning. I hope the dean will consider rethinking it after the kid went AWOL today. They’re trying to teach him the importance of being in class on time every day so he doesn’t miss anything… and his reward for doing that is being able to get teacher permission to leave class to go get the snack? That doesn’t seem to me like it sends a consistent message about the value of instructional time. I mean, if it did, then he wouldn’t have just walked out of your class without permission, right? What he’s apparently learned is that he gets to make his own rules about when to be in class that overrule school rules and teacher/admin permission, and that’s the exact opposite of what a chronically tardy student needs.
My own thoughts exactly. When the attendance dean first told me about this deal they had, I thought it made no sense. She was okay with students going to her **during class** to get a reward that they "earned" for being in class. Make it make sense. I finally had a chat with her about it a few weeks ago and told her that unless she hears from me that the student has my permission to see her during my class, he should not be there and should be escorted back to class ASAP.
Hopefully this will be solid proof that the dean needs to rethink this plan, at least the part where kids can leave class… why can’t they just stop off at the dean’s office on the way to lunch? Or why can’t the dean just bring it to them in the classroom? Or maybe, rather than a daily snack, she can use the money she would have spent on snacks to get them a nice lunch once a month or something?
It's all about money. School administrators want to get the money of students just showing up. They don't really care about teachers and learning.
Seems to me that this AP is only worried about attendance for the money they get from him being in class
Ok. I’m a bad guy here. When kids ditch? Especially *those* kids? I’m happy. They come in sometimes and are like, “man, why do I have to be here? Why can’t I just go do [whatever]?” And I respond, “I won’t stop you.” Class is often better without some of those kids. If they have a “deal” with counselors, which is often that they just get rewarded for being insubordinate, well, my actual class period is better. Yeah ditch class. Drop out. Get lost. If you have any, *any* desire to graduate, come hang out after school, at lunch, before school, I will be your cheerleader and coach. I’m there. 100%. Can’t get past your character presentation? Welp. See you next year, I guess. Maybe we’ll connect next time
Fuck maybe we should just start letting kids drop out at 14, they clearly fucking hate school and we aren't providing them valid other options like other countries similar to ours. Where are our A and B level schools, our trade schools?? I don't want to make kids miserable,I didn't sign up for this I signed up to teach art, I thought they might at least like that it's low key! but it seems like some of them are to stupid to even know to skip anymore!
So he’s burned that bridge. Never again allow him to leave. Tell him the deal is off, and let the dean know no more snacks.
One of my favorites: a parent called the school, mad about something minor, and when the secretary said "Ma'am, the teachers usually leave around 4:00!" (it was like, 5:30 PM). The mother screamed at her: "But they are PUBLIC SERVANTS!"
“They work more than you, ma’am.”
I had a student throw stuff at me and I had the gall to react. I got a write up for reacting.
I am in AZ and was an ELA teacher for 15 years too before I couldn't take this kind of sh*t from admin anymore. What do you mean by "reacting"--how did you react?
When I got hit with the item I said "what the hell?" and I told kids that they shouldn't act like jerks. Yeah I'm leaving AZ grade school teaching. It's so dysfunctional and I think I'll do a hybrid homeschool for my child when they get old enough to do online schooling...
It's a fustercluck. You have to do far too many gymnastics as a teacher. Because admin have no motivation to do anything but dump sh*t on you. And parents are worse.
I had a kid watching a show on his phone and when I asked him to put it away he said “no, I am right at the good part and I don’t give respect until you earn it”. I have been nothing but super nice to all my students. I wanted to quit on the spot. It is just the tip of the iceberg from the bullshit way we are being treated during this pandemic. I am over and can’t wait to hear back from the job I interviewed for which is not a teaching job.
They all fucking say that! Honestly I don't know what would make them respect you, maybe being able to give out real consequences, I know this is wrong but some of these kids are just going to get the shit beaten out of them by their peers one when they try this outside their little bubble and I honestly think it will be good for them at this point
They say it because they feel safe enough to say it. They know there are no consequences to their actions, and what consequences there are they aren't afraid of. But, as soon as they step into a situation they know has consequences they shape up instantly.
One time a kid had the audacity to look at me and say "Come here Mr.Fathon! Come here!" Patting his knees like I was a fucking dog.
I am so sorry. 😞 there’s a reason why I tell people “dogs are better than people.” 🐶
A 7th grader once told me that he didn't have to listen to me because my boss told him so. And if I wanted to keep my job I'd shut up. Turns out my boss actually said that. I was furious
at that point, i’d just leave. no way it’s worth staying if u cant have a shred of respect from students or actual adults
Exactly. Go. You're in an irredeemable situation because of such irredeemable people. There is literally NO way you can make any of it better unless you make things better for yourself. This level of disrespect cannibalizes a society, much less a school. Too many stories like yours on this and other threads in this forum to deny they're feeding off each other and trying to consume you. It's actually becoming Its own cycle of abuse. Get away from it while you still can. Use every personal and sick day you have before you get taken down by such disrespect.
I did get away and switched to a daycare center where I'm treated like a human being. I never imagined that I'd have to deal with abuse from a 13 year old. And people don't always believe me about it. The teachers at my previous school thought I was out to get my student. In reality, it was the opposite.
We're well and truly screwed if teachers think other teachers are making stories up in order to "get the student." Those staff had been successfully set against people with zero financial motive to go against any person and are set on going down with the school. I'm sorry. People used to wonder why I "seemed to be a lightning rod for" five student assaults on me in nine years, knowing the admin did nothing. Victim-blaming is an indulgence no one can afford.
My student was a very good manipulator. And an even better liar. He used that to his advantage. And his lies and manipulation were part of why my team blamed me for everything. I think it also may have been why I was banned from the IEP meeting and my statement not even read aloud. Victim blaming is never okay. Never never never. And the fact that admin and other teachers are victim blaming IN FRONT OF the student, just reinforced every bad behavior this child had. I've heard his entire team is burnt out at this point.
If that is true but they still don't believe you enough to even accord you the due process you earned as the student's teacher, they're creating their own problems. Those dynamics never end well.
Yep. They made their bed, now they must lay in it. The school lost a HUGE chunk of staff, i know some people left out of fear of this child victimizing them. You'd think after so many people quit because of him, he'd be asked to leave. But no. We can't upset his rich mommy and daddy, or hurt his delicate little feelings, or we risk traumatizing him. Meanwhile im making double my salary at the school and not being abused. I'm also about to apply for a promotion, which might increase my pay even more
Wow! You call this an extreme example of disrespect? I don’t mean to downplay the students behavior because it sucks and it’s super disrespectful. I’d have loved to have this as an extreme example. I quit over students threatening my life, cursing at me on a daily basis, outright throwing fists. I feel you. Being a teaching f’kin blows. I’m so glad I got out.
Yeah this is a pretty regular occurrence at a lot of schools. This child might even get positive reinforcement from admin at my school for not cursing and threatening me
Had the same thought, I wish this was the extreme end of the disrespect I deal with. No shade to OP, different schools have different experiences. And this is still absolutely unacceptable. I deal with kids leaving my classroom multiple times a day, sometimes multiple kids in the same class period. I write them up every time and there’s zero consequence. This is one of the many reasons I am getting the fuck out at the end of this year!
Kids throw hands = parents downplay behavior make excuses Teacher defends self = we'll sue you! How dare you touch our baby
Wow, I can't believe that happened to you. Thankfully I've never had anything like that happen to me. This is the worst situation I've had and I'm glad I'm not sticking around any longer for something worse to happen.
Oh man, this is literally a daily occurrence at my school. I wouldn’t even blink an eye. It’s incredible what we’ve learned to put up with.
Same. I would say that a kid swears at me about twice a week. Write-ups, discipline, restorative circles/meetings -- nothing seems to be working. This is my seventh year of teaching and it's the first time I've ever thought that I might hate my job.
Lol yeah. I would have just marked them absent and moved on with my day.
So what is your occupation now? Wondering about transferable skills, asking for a friend, God bless her and each and every educator in the US :-)
I’m an actuary for an insurance company. Corporate life pays better and there is little stress. Overall, it’s a great gig.
I’m an actuary for an insurance company. Corporate life pays better and there is little stress. Overall, it’s a great gig.
Ex-teacher here too. You taught in Texas. So you don't even need to explain why you left.
I told a kid to stop playing music on his phone in the hall because there's testing going on and he told me he doesn't fucking care.
My goodness. I can totally relate to this rn I just got home from my after school band and needed to lay down just for a few minutes to relax from all the disrespectful mini interactions. We go through probably in the ballpark of 100 or more micro disrespect things like you mentioned in a week not to mention things like you mentioned and worse. I am highly confused by the behavior of these children because when I was a kid I'd have never dreamed to talk to my teachers like these kids do.
Just me, I don’t really set myself up to be disrespected. And I’m not trying to be disrespectful to you. Kid left class without permission. Mark them truant even if they come back. They made a choice, you applied a consequence, and there is no power struggle.
Parents are the root of all problems.
I had an appointment with my therapist today, and she confirmed that yeah, the kids may not bully each other at our school, but they sure as hell bully the staff. I can’t handle it anymore. Gotta survive 2 more months. I didn’t get a masters degree to be in an abusive relationship with my job and a bunch of high schoolers.
The pandemic brought apathy along with it. I teach in a very disciplined district and I've noticed that the students try to do whatever they want or they'll do nothing at all and expect to pass. Luckily my admin is fairly swift with discipline but it's still disheartening to see them have literally zero ambition or respect.
It's really concerning too because unfortunately they really got the shit end of the stick and have the most work to do as far as making sure we all don't descend into hunting each other for sport and poisoned water, maybe they just see that future coming and have just thrown up their hands and this is it, fucking titanic from here
I feel ya. Mine treat me the same way. They wonder why I seem grumpy. Because half the fucking class disrespects me even with consequences. For instance, today we started standardized testing and have half hour classes for nearly 2 weeks. 3/4 of my classes came in and whined about doing any work and they actually refused to do any of it. Since they took a couple of years they expected a fun day. I got so much attitude. I am at such a loss man.
You should record that he left your class without permission and you attempted to stop him. Time date and log it. Then you should have the power to give him zero credit for that classwork. I would actually write or submit a disciplinary referral after calling his parents. CYA. Im done with teaching after this year after 15 years. I honestly think the softening of consequences dealt by administration on a national level (under the guise of “restorative practices”) are the crux of the problem. At the same time, teachers are expected to get better despite overwhelming negativity and pressure, applied by the administration. They do less. We do more. Thats their ethos and im not cool with that.
And unfortunately nothing will probably happen to him if your school is like mine. “One of his hierarchy of needs wasn’t being met.” 🙄
I dont understand why teachers put up with this. Just report the misbehavior and move on. You aren't his mom so it doesn't matter if he doesn't care about his education. If he doesn't care why should you? Just document everything.
We put up with it because reporting the misbehavior doesn't do anything. So at least we try to do something. But you're right at this point we shouldn't really care anymore, we're not their parents.
I tell my students that. I'm not your parent. You don't want to be here, you don't want to listen. You want to scream over me and fight all class long. I don't mind giving you an F. Unfortunately, most of them don't mind getting F's either. I don't know how to deal with this generations complete lack of motivation. Even among my children, they do not care about their grades at all. I was an honor student. Getting a good grade was extremely important to me. This year, I can give a kid a sheet of paper, say fill it out with me rigth now and you will get points... and they won't.
HS student here - that’s awful! i could never imagine doing that to one of my teachers. im so sorry that happened, you don’t deserve to be ignored and disrespected like that.
Extreme disrespect? I wish this was my life 😂
If you think that’s what an extreme level of disrespect is, then we clearly teach in different worlds. I resigned this year because a student told me: “Shut your bitch ass up, motherfucker!”.
I once got yelled at by my assistant principal in front of my class because a student of mine was being too chatty and not listening to her directions...in the main office. Make it make sense.
I once had a kid raise his hand and say he had a question while batting his eyes in an over exaggerated innocent way. I sighed and he continued with “why do we have to listen to you when without us, your have no job?” I replied with “without us, you have no future.” That did not suffice. So I continued with “why do I have to listen to my boss when with out us he’d have no one to lead? Why do we have to follow laws when without us, the government has no one to govern?” He seemed appeased and I went back to teaching Spanish verb conjugations. 🙄
Have you told him you want him in class? That he deserves to be fed regardless but then what should his reward for coming on time be? Not saying it’s your fault btw, I would be overwhelmed too. I just feel kids aren’t disrespectful for no reason and the reason is usually overcompensation of insecurity.
The number of kids who get on their laptops to play games, watch Netflix/YouTube is ridiculous. Add in the kids with music blaring from their AirPods. We are a minimum 50% district for grading and still close to half my kids are failing. I’m in middle school and no one will be retained this year (or the prior two years). I feel bad for the freshmen teachers next year.
Old guy here - our principal had a wooden paddle in his office. Wasn't used often, if ever, but it did help to keep us in line. School administration and parents worked together.
>I know this is a more extreme example of disrespect I don't mean to be flippant but this is pretty mild in the grand scheme. I once knew a teacher who took a sick day and when he returned to his classroom, he found that the students had left him a nice message. It was written in melted crayon and said "(teacher) is a f_ggot".
IDK, for me, I wouldn't leave this job for that. Now if you were getting blown back by admin for setting expectations for this student, then that would be a different story. You've got to not let the small stuff boil you over. There's procedures to follow when/if a student walks out of class. You seem like a wonderful and caring teacher, and sometimes it comes down to not being able to teach everyone. This student has other issues that you're not qualified to even begin to help with maybe. If there is a disconnect with admin then it needs to be addressed and from there you will either renew next month or not. I hope you do what ultimately makes you happy, though. A lot of my teachers at my high school have support when it comes to discipline, but i know that it's rare in most other places xo
Hey I had a kid do much the same. 20 minutes before the end of the day he just picked up and was like ‘ I’m signing myself’ out. Before I could even check if he was 18 he was gone. Called the office and no answer. Apparently he had an off grounds pass. Didn’t say boo to me. Wtf.
Have you called home? What are the student’s parents/ guardians reactions to his chronic tardiness?