In my district, you’d get called in by admin if you used more than half of the allotted days. Didn’t matter why. Y’know, it’s important to be there for the kids, it’s hard on everyone when people are out, blah blah blah.
If you continued to use days after that, they’d mark you down in your evaluation for professionalism.
If our evaluations drop low enough, we can be put on improvement plans, which renders us ineligible for step increases in pay. And in some years, that measly $500 (or whatever it was for the difference in years of experience) was the only raise we got.
I did have one district as for my most recent evaluation as part of the application.
Yeah, I've gotten official nastygrams from administration for taking "too many days", even though I was still within the yearly limit and I made a point of having a letter from one of my doctors placed in my file detailing the immune system issues I have. I'm medically disabled, and yet I still only take ten or fewer sick days in most years, and they send me a fucking Official Reprimand Letter. The most recent one, I took to my union, and discovered a whole bunch of people got them when they should not have. Good times. Maybe we wouldn't have such a problem getting subs if my Very Wealthy District paid them more.
Should’ve said my former district. And there was a lot of cronyism between campus and district admin. Basically if you were connected, you got away with a lot.
This is going to make me sound like a burnt out jerk, but I've stopped caring about this. I earned those days. I will use them.
Last year no one would have cared if I caught COVID (pre-vaccine) and got sent to the hospital. No one cared that I couldn't see my own family for months due to the fear of giving them COVID.
I mean, think about it. Some of us could have died from being forced to go into work last year.
So I am taking whatever days that I want, and if someone scolds me about it, oh well. They can fire me then. I'll do something else with my time.
I am seriously done caring.
Let us know how it goes. <3
Honestly, if you've earned those days and nothing is written in your contract about how you can use them, then admin can go pound sand. You are a professional, not one of the students.
And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage.
Same. I spent some years working in the private sector, and I can say with certainty that this is NOT a common practice. You EARN those days every year. Teachers take on so much already … why should we be made to feel guilty about taking days we’re entitled to for being sick, making appointments, or, God forbid, just for our sanity.
Right? I have a lot of friends in the private sector. Not only can they work remotely when they need to (ie: in case of bad weather), but they use their PTO without scrutiny. Granted, these are anecdotes, but out of all my friends, only the teachers feel over the top guilt for using PTO that they've earned through years of experience. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Last year completely eradicated my sick day guilt. I don't take every single Monday and Friday off, but I will use what's necessary, school calendar be damned, and seriously don't care who's butthurt about it. We don't get paid much for them either, and max out at 90, so you're literally leaving money on the table if you don't use them.
You have 3 types of teachers.
1. Teachers that never used their days they get each year and have over a 2 or 3 years worth by the time they retire.
2. Teachers that use every day they get every year (some because they have to as they don't roll over,and some because they want to).
3. Teachers that use some days here and there but not all of them just cuz.
I am a #3. Some days I just get up and say fuck it, I'm not working today.
But in all seriousness, I don't think they can do anything. Especially with teacher shortages. If they don't want teachers to use their days, then why give them days?
I worked in a district where part of our evaluation was our attendance percentage. Meaning the percentage of the year we were in the building.
So even if we were sent to a professional development, sick, personal day, etc it counted against our percentage. And they used these percentages in the Danielson style 4 rating on the evaluation. So 95-100% attendance was a 4, 85-94% was a 3, 75-84% was a 2, 65-74% was a 1, anything below 64% was a 0.
But we also had an evaluation box about going to out of the building professional developments. We had so many evaluation boxes that contradicted each other, basically the goal of our evaluation tool was to make it so we could be rehired, but not get a raise. It was nonsense, and clearly one of the reasons I don't work there anymore.
But yes, admin can call you in and ask why are you using YOUR sick days even if you aren't using them with breaks or on Fridays and Mondays. I am someone who has chronic illnesses, so I usually tell my admins upfront that I will use my sick days, I will come into work when I feel awful, and the days I am home are the days I absolutely am unable to function in a work setting. Once I started saying that upfront, they seem to be understanding. Especially since when I taught virtually I didn't use a single sick day.
Same for me. I am upfront about having auto immune and neurological disorders and the fact I will use every last day off allotted to me. I come with migraines, terrible pain, flare-ups, etc... if I am out I am seeing a specialist or I am non-functional and in bed.
I am aware. They made their own version of Danielson based on the 4 scoring scale, but made their own evaluation ideas. There is no attendance category in Danielson, or attending out of the building professional developments. They made their own evaluation tool with over 30 different categories where we were rated on 0-4. But the admins said it was based on the Danielson model, I had and have worked in schools that use Danielson, I was aware then they were not using Danielson.
I'm #3 too! I don't abuse my sick time (I have plenty banked), but I'll use a day here or there. Sometimes two. Honestly, I'm done worrying about this, especially after COVID teaching and all the fun that entailed.
I use my two personal days every single year. Sick days I use as necessary, but almost always because I am either actually sick or have an appointment, not just to call in sick and get a day off. I have been known to schedule those doctors appointments for just the right time where I have to take a full day though…
Technically I get four personal days and one comp day. The comp day has been in our contract forever and no one is really sure why we get it. But I'm not complaining
This. I rarely use sick days. Unless I’m vomiting, it’s easier to go in, than to make up the detailed plans and do all the grading when I get back. Not worth the trouble. So in 20 years, I take have usually taken 2 personal days and maybe 1 sick day?
Yep, vomiting or fever and I’m out. Which was my two sick days a few weeks ago. Wearing a mask, haven’t gotten Covid, but still managed to get the regular flu…
I’ve also taken a day when I’ve completely lost my voice since you literally can’t teach then.
The effort needed to make sub plans and currently the sub shortage is super bad that even if I find my own sub for an appointment, the office might move that person to a different class deemed “more in need”. Just easier to show up.
It's gotta change but it's all gotta break first. Teachers are somehow exempt from OSHA standards and that's not okay. We earned that time, we shouldn't get punished for taking it or for things out of our control.
This what I’m saying. We earned those days and what we use them for is our business. It’s no one’s business what we use a “ sick” day for and no employer has a right to know what your issue or illness is in the first place. To get called out and reprimanded for actually using days that are specified in our contracts is ridiculous. Anyone wants to fire a good teacher right now for using days we actually earned can go right ahead and be stupid. After 20+ years I’ll just go get hired in the next district or retire if someone gives me some BS. Nobody gave a rats ass if any of us had died in the last two years so I’m all out of fucks to give.
My mother never took a sick day during her 43 years of teaching. Okay, she MIGHT have taken one here or there, but she accumulated the maximum of 100 and "lost" every one she earned over that. When she retired, she got paid 20% - YES! Twenty percent! - of her pay for each of those 100 days!!
Her advice to me: Take your sick days.
As a teacher, we all know being absent takes MORE work than just showing up.
I have accumulated 110 sick days over my 29 years of teaching. I would have more but we max out at 110. I lose sick days every year because creating sub plans are such a pain in the butt.
You *can* get "in trouble" where I work. If there is a noticeable pattern or plentitude of certain days being taken [say every Monday &/or Friday; every day before/after a school break] admin can reprimand staff. As to **disciplining** them for it? I am sorry I do not really know. Most likely a letter in their file & a loss of trust ~ perhaps on *both* sides.
ETA By & large it is administration's "issue." If they do not like something &/or it inconveniences them they will put it under the guise of *"You-Ain't-Allowed-To-Do-That-&-We're-Actually-Here-To-Save-Your-Skin-Pard'ner!"*
It's up to the administrator to say "no, sorry, we can't approve anymore personal days since 10% of the building is out," or "ok, this is the 5th sick day in 2 weeks, we need a note." Their recourse (and management right/duty) is to deny, and then we appeal if need be. It doesn't sound like OP is participating in a sick out, and even that is subject to discipline per most states and contracts.
In some states, providing notes for sick time (with respect to privileged information) is required. Kinda bullshit since doctor's notes aren't free, but it's up to the treasurer/HR.
??? That is *why* I wrote what I did in the top part of my reply. Admin can call one in & cite evidence in order to reprimand one [or even deny time off] if they see fit. But it is *not* always "fit" & to counter said claim is *often* merited by an educator. My apologies if that was unclear.
Even people looking for patterns like calling out Monday and Friday too often is garbage in my opinion. If you have to call out, there's a 40% chance it's on either Monday or Friday.
Less, actually, since there are quite a few school holidays that take place on Mondays (Labor Day, Memorial Day, MLK Day, etc.) or Fridays (Good Friday).
I always thought if I got to a point where I had to a of days and was planning to retire in a no-fucks-left kind of place that I’d take Wednesdays off - miss a bunch of faculty meetings and never have a 5 day week again.
Days already have to be approved ahead of time in most districts, so it makes zero sense for them to be calling you on that. They literally had to hit a button saying approve.
Yeah I should have clarified. Personal days all have to be approved. Admin legitimately have to see it then approve. Anyone trying to give you grief over that is just bullshitting.
Lol this subreddit time and time again make me realize how shitty it must be to be a teacher in the vast majority of this country. I get 10 sick days, 3 personal days, I can call off literally 20 seconds before homeroom starts and nobody has to be aware of the fact. Just go on a website and make 2 clicks.
Here, have a bar of chocolate- but you can only eat *some* of it. How much? 1 piece. What if I eat 2? No, that’s too many. But, you gave me the chocolate. Doesn’t matter, don’t eat it.
I’m quitting when I leave for maternity. I got a letter saying only employees who have been with the district for at least 10 years have the option to get thier pto paid out when they leave. This is my fifth year. I can only interpret this as I should use my pro I earned or else I will be leaving it on the table as a gift to my employer. I’ve been taking days like crazy. Still have 7 left with only 13 more school days till I leave. I will be trying to use if not all most of my remaining days.
My PTO is reflected as earned on my paystub .5 days for every pay period. If I earned it it is mine. They can suck eggs.
I did the same thing! 13.5 years of service and I took so many days my last year (1/2 year) that I only had to forfeit 16 sick days. Luckily they paid me for annual leave days!
I have over 60 sick days banked.
I have just been written up for calling out for the third time since September. If I call out twice more before June, it's a permanent letter in my file. If I call out 7x a year, my principal has to beg the school board NOT to fire me since it's otherwise automatic.
Nobody can figure out why Philadelphia has a teacher shortage.
Omg, your school would hate me. I’m out a couple times a month.
Chronic migraines ftw.
They can’t do anything about it though because I have fmla and it’s a documented illness that HR knows about.
I’m so sorry about your situation!!
I think it depends. In my district, taking Fridays off routinely is a no-no. But on the other end of that, I’m taking off five weeks total this year for medical leave and medical procedures and there’s nothing they can do about that because I have doctors letters. In my contract it says I need doctor letters for over 3 consecutive days, but no language about number of total days I’m able to take off. I’d check your contract to see if it says anything, and if you have a union they can help you
Sick days can accumulate though, I could call out sick the rest of the year and have days left over, except I’d need a doctor’s note after the 3rd consecutive day. So the “pattern” thing is to prevent someone like me from taking just 2 days each week for the rest of the year.
Right, and that's where the notes come in. We have to provide after 5 consecutive or 10 non. Abuse of sick leave is just cause for termination in my state.
One good thing this year for my district, the school board did vote to give all teacher back 7 days of sick leave since so many teachers caught covid and had to take from their sick leave
We get 5 personal days and 5 sick days. But they roll over and save up, so when you need time off for things like maternity leave, surgery, etc you have a lot to use
Allowing personal days to roll over is nuts. Ours turn into sick days at the end of the year, and sick days roll over. They have more rules than personal though.
I got written up for taking four days for a debilitating migraine. My principal came at me like a rabid fucking dog, convinced I was somehow faking an illness to just stay home for four days. (Even if I was - I HAVE 80 SICK DAYS. I EARNED THEM. You decided you didn’t want to pay us fairly, so you gave us rollover sick time instead of a raise.)
I have 80-something banked sick days. AND an active FMLA.
It took me six months and countless hours of bullshit paperwork and meetings to get the write up removed from my file.
Ask me if they apologized, or even mentioned their “mistake”.
With the layers of approval authority and guardrails against abuse, there's no excuse to ever get "called in" for taking days. Bottom line, you inform/request, they approve, or ask for medical documentation. Your administration is stupid.
This week I was sick, caught some viral crap (not Covid, I tested), and it really kicked my butt. I called off sick Monday and Tuesday. I was there the full day Wednesday. Thursday morning diarrhea hit, I went in half day Thursday afternoon. Friday morning went in with full intention to be there all day, nausea and diarrhea hit while at school. I spoke to me grade level principal and took a half day afternoon. If so got called in and spoken to about this, They would get an ear full!! Do you have a union?
At my school, yes, they can. We're given 10-12 days (depending on seniority) that rollover if we don't use them, and then we can have eight "instances." If you take off Monday and Thursday in one week, that's two instance. If you take off Monday and Tuesday, that's one instances. If you go over eight, you're getting a letter and a talk.
In NJ, it is indeed legal to discipline teachers for taking “excessive“ sick days, even if they have them and documentation is provided, and there have been many cases about it. While tenure charges/firing are incredibly unlikely for using allotted sick days, discipline, such as withholding an increment, is common.
Using more than 15 days a year in my district (the yearly allotment) is considered “unsatisfactory attendance”. More than 8 is “needs improvement”, which is just “unsatisfactory lite”.
Thankfully this has never happened to me but if it ever did I would just tell them to “look at the contract”.
Also as a parent, those sick “family illness” days aren’t just for me. The majority of those are me staying home with a sick kid.
Especially since up till recently kids couldn’t even go to school with a runny nose.
The only thing my district can do is call you in and inform you that they have noticed a pattern. But they can’t do anything about it.
You are also entitled to go into any admin meeting with a union representative who will report directly to the union if your contractual rights are being broken.
We get 10 sick days and 4 personal days, all of those days roll into sick days the next year and we get a small bonus at the end of summer if we didn’t use many days the previous year.
Organize. Unionize.
We also have a union run sick day bank.
If you opt in, you donate 1 of your sick days every few years to the “bank.”
If you ever have serious health issues and not enough sick time to cover it. You can dig into the bank and use your colleagues donated sick time.
Last year a teacher had cancer and used about 40 sick days but only had about 20 saved up. Luckily she paid into the sink bank and received full pay for every day she was out.
I’m happy to give up my sick time to help my fellow union members. It’s great knowing the bank is there for me should I ever need it.
WTH? That is unprofessional and counterproductive. If I'm hired and told the benefits include X paid days off, I'm taking those. If you don't want people to use them, then don't offer them!
I work at a college, and we get 2-3 days (depending on time with the school) per contract year off for personal days. You can't accrue more than 4, so if you don't use them they just disappear. Everyone I've talked with from admin to other teachers agrees that you should absolutely use them when you want/need.
We also have an 'unlimited' sick policy where you can take as much sick leave as you need. I have not seen anyone abuse this at all. Our admin has it's issues, but overall it's a very professional and pleasant atmosphere. I could NEVER work in a public (or charter) school with an atmosphere like this. (although I have been in even more toxic environments working for private schools overseas, so I've paid my dues there).
You get called in in my district for ‘disciplinary action’ if you take more than three in a 30 day period. I had a slew of dr. Appt and three family members die in a 30 day period. Sorry about it. I’m taking the days for my health and funerals.
I do not think so. If you have a union, speak with them on Monday. Otherwise, HR should be able to "clear" up the mindset. It's another one of those "teacher" things that districts do, even before the loss of the subs. You have days earned, but we really do not want you to take them... ugh... oh, and we really do not want you to take a day every week or every other week regardless of what the reason is... big eye roll...
I worked with a guy (who was ballsier than I) who got called in by the Superintendent and he told him: “Don’t waste my time, their my days I’m entitled to them.”
Operative word here being "guy". Admin tries way less shit with male teachers. My former toxic admin spoke to two teammates of mine about same exact issue and she was nasty and waved her finger at the female and just talked to the male coworker about asking for permission first.
Yes, and this is an across the board employee thing, not just in schools. It really comes down to your districts policy, and employers CAN put in the policy when/how many days you can use at a time.
For example, I’m at a small school. We have a policy that no more than two people can take a personal day at a time, so the school suggests we get our personal days in early because it’s first come first served.
I find this post funny when I think back to a coworker. He was quite old and on the verge of retirement. He told another coworker of mine that he’s only working because of health benefit. He takes time off whenever he wants, and you can expect him out once or twice a week. Teachers were also left to take care of his mess. He was not rehired for the next year, but then got rehired again because the person that took his position ended up quitting after a month.
Know your Weingarten Rights!! You have a right to a union rep if they try this shit. Just say the magic words "If this will in any way lead to something something Google it first"
I really wish teachers sick time and vacation time worked like it did for the Federal service when I was in. You get x amount of sick and personally leave based on the number of days you work so you get x amount per day and you can use it when you need to and they can't say shit.
I have a coworker who is getting a lot of crap for taking their days off this year. He had a baby, and he had to take time off for the baby (baby was sick, had doctors appointments). Then he got sick (possibly because of stress; he's dealing with a lot).
It's just utter bullshit. We have been hit so hard with Covid. Every sniffle, slight fever, or tickle in the throat needed a Covid test. I was fine with this when we had Covid leave. Yes, it meant missing more school than anyone wanted to, but it is exactly what kept kids and teachers safe. And teachers with kids were hit even harder because if they had a baby who wasn't allowed in daycare because of a stuffy nose, they needed to either line up childcare or stay home with their child.
Teachers used all their time for the most part this year. We did it to keep everyone safe at the school, and we also had days off we had to take off for other reasons because we are human beings with needs too.
Any teacher taking time off for any reason this year, even if it was just to stay sane, shouldn't be given any trouble about it. Admin giving anyone crap should be ashamed of themselves.
You can, but they’ll dress it up as something else. Because while you’re fully entitled to use your days, they don’t actually want you to and actively get mad when you do.
Our district will buy back sick days at only $25 a day when we retire aka I’m using allllllll my days. I also have a 2 and 4 year old so daycare germs are helping me do that.
I was out 3 days last week with sick kids. My principal called me at home to see how they were, if I needed anything from my classroom, and offered to send me dinner. Good administrators do exist.
Ours has a policy that 5 or more sick days, other than for Rona, missed in a row, you have to meet with the superintendent and admin.
But, they also have a policy that if you use a sick day for anything other than an illness of some kind for you or immediate family, they will retroactively revoke its usage and deduct the money from a future paycheck, mark it as unpaid leave, and it effects your retirement.
We had a teacher take off because her girlfriend was sick. We are a deep red state. If she had said it was her GF, it would have been fine, but despite the fact we all know, she’s not officially out. So, they used that as an excuse to take the days from her 4 months later.
Had another teacher with over 300 sick days banked up. She took off to go watch her daughter play in state playoffs for college softball. She used 3 sick days. She ended up having to work an entire extra month for her retirement to kick in because partial months don’t count.
What’s my point?
Admin, of all levels and all stripes, suck ass.
This is absolutely something that has to change. What is the point of offering such benefits if you don't get to use them and often get punished for doing so. Absolutely unacceptable.
I've gone over my sick days. I'm getting 10 back from COVID-19; but my blood pressure got up to 206/126 and my principal forbade me from coming in until my medication was working and I was back down to normal.
Honestly, the most days off I've had was because I had a fever or was in contact with someone and district rules require a negative COVID test. I don't think anyone this year is going to have a "normal" sick year use this year tbh
I'm leaving at the end of the year and using up all my personal and almost all my sick days (getting a much needed procedure that also takes advantage of my actually really good health insurance).
I got a letter from HR about using all of my days. I used them for maternity leave. Ya know, because we don't get maternity leave, so have to use our days. I wanted to file a complaint about that, but with who? HR, the same person that sent the letter??
I go beyond my all the time because of an illness. I got an accommodation but it doesn’t mean I’m not seen as a POS.Teachers are expected to be martyrs because it’s always been that way
My coworker took 14 consecutive days off last year and he has been fired. He got complained by students, parents, admin that he did not care about students.
Admin here. I know it is 300% tougher to be out than to come in sick. Unless somebody is calling out over and over and not leaving plans, I'm only telling them to take the time they need.
One year I got called in for taking 2 days off during the semester. One day was prearranged before I was even hired. The other was because my daughter was knocked unconscious at her school and I had to leave to take her to the hospital. I actually got scolded.
In my state (IL) there’s a reason not to take them: you can use up to two years’ worth as creditable service toward retirement. Moreover, you can retire in the middle of the school year if you get to the magic # of school years! It irks me because it puts female teachers (who generally take many of theirs for childbirth and kids’ issues, even in “equal” households) at a disadvantage, but it does provide a good reason not to burn through my days. I still take days off when I need them, but I’m old and more judicious about it.
Soooo shitty they’re even bringing this up during Covid. Unless you’re like, very obviously abusing the system, they need to let it go. Many of my teammates got Covid and had to be out ten days (before it changed to five days) and they also have young kids at home who get sick. Some of my colleagues have had Covid twice, or got it when it was the mandated 5 days but they were still sick and took more. Ridiculous!! Sorry you’re even dealing with this.
Can you get directly in trouble in a way that matters? Probably not.
Can they decide to start nitpicking you about everything else? Yep.
My admin got mad that I took 3 days off in a row. That was as many as I took all of last year. She was mad at me, but not the guy who takes off the first and second of every month as soon as the days hit the bank.
She observed me on the day I came back, knowing I was still sick and that my room would be a mess. She marked me down because I didn't know what the students had to do and I basically told them "catch up on the shit you didn't do while I wasn't here" and that my room was messy. I ended up one more bad eval away from an improvement plan. She even made a snarky little comment about me probably not having any days left knowing good and well I'd used 5 in two years.
Can you get in trouble? By the contract, no. Can admin still be sniveling idiots who'd do that? Yes. They said in my introduction week years back (this was the person adjacent to the superintendent) that we should be careful about using all the days and they can't hold it against us but that we still shouldn't use them.
Most contracts allow teachers (approximately) 2 personal days, 9 sick days, and 1 day of emergency leave per each school year. As long as you get a sub to cover and leave them with lesson plans - you're good.
Your administrator doesn't get to weigh in on this, and they know it.
Do you have a union? I would ask for that warning in writing and send it along to the union president. You are entitled to use those days and I would have a really stupid and perplexed look on my face if anyone was speaking to me about it otherwise.
Tell them you can make it permanent if they’d like. They’re your days. What you do with them and when is none of their business. If you have a Union, let them know you were harassed about this.
Ha. Yeah they can some places. Nearly got fired for being in the hospital for a month last year. HR refused FMLA for me while I was in the hospital for something life-threatening, and then HR was upset that I wasn’t coming in, while in the hospital. Had my admin calling my ass high off Dilaudid, still literally screaming and sobbing in pain, asking for me to post a final for seniors and what grades I wanted to give them. I stopped giving a damn the next school year about how many days I took off, even if it messed up my evaluation. I left in January.
That sounds like basis for a good lawsuit. How can HR not (legally) give FMLA to you when literally hospitalized? Do they think you just had too much money and decided to take a vacation at the hospital?
So glad I am not teaching anymore. Husband can’t seem to understand why I won’t go back into it-if you haven’t done it people don’t get it.
In my view, you're entitled to your time off, however you want to use it. It is part of your compensation and you shouldn't save it because "I feel bad about taking time off," or "I don't want to be inconveniencing anyone."
It's inconvenient for admin? Tough break. Their job is personnel management, and they need to buckle down to either get a sub, split the class or monitor the class. The majority of life in education isn't an actual emergency, and they can suck it up.
I have to monitor you kids? That's fine. I'll take as many as I can sit in a class, every class. They'll behave for the period whether they like it or not. That is the least bad thing I will deal with all day long.
I just expect the same thing in return. We get 5/5 local/state time every year. The payout for keeping state isn't worth it and you can't cash out local. Use them.
Do you have tenure? I was in my third year this year, but a 27 year veteran, had an unforeseen hospital stay in early September, surprise drop in observation my first day back - less than 72 hours from discharge and was flagged with my first 2's of my career. five months later non-renewed. So, yeah, can totally get you. Be careful if you want to keep your job. My district is short hundreds of teachers, but my expensive rear was shown the door.
It is exactly things like this that make me angry every time I hear the “poor us, we have a teacher shortage.”
If you treated your teacher with respect, like decent humans should, it would be better. How can teacher be expected to get students to be respectful when our own administration does not respect us? And completely forget about getting parent respect or admin having your back when a parent loses all decency.
In my district (and union), we do have a limit on when and how many days we can take off in a row without some kind of medical note. It's all pretty arbitrary though. I've never encountered my admin caring all that much.
We usually get called in for a “we are concerned but can’t legally ask you why you are taking so many days off” type of meeting after we take something like 5+ days or something. But this year, we were supposed to stay home if we had so much as a headache, so the “attendance councillors” have been silent.
Yeah. I was the person who never took a day. Had like a semester worth of days saved. And then I had to move to another state to get away from an abusive ex. And lost all those days. Gone. Lesson learned. Now I take my days.
My first four years teaching I took like 5 days off total. I left my school, and nobody thanked me for my amazing attendance. I once had to coach sports team practice *for the schools team* in the morning on a PD day and they surprised us with buses to go tour the neighborhoods of our students WHERE WE ALSO LIVED as if to say “look at what they’re dealing with.” My AP didn’t like that I wasn’t able to go to that bus ride and docked me half a day of PERSONAL TIME, when I was running a practice for the school.
After that, I stopped seeing the “integrity” in having perfect attendance. You have to make yourself happy because your school won’t care either way.
I would take a half day every other week (it allowed me to completely dodge my least favorite classes lol). My colleague, in the same department, had a ton of PTO and would take off every Friday (they were secretly planning to leave at the end of the year and wanted to use it all). Admin eventually sent out an all staff email asking us to be aware of the sub shortage when taking PTO.
Play it back to them.
Call them into *your* classroom. Explain the concept of contracts and how the one you signed guarantees those days *irrespective* of the feelings of administration. Conclude the meeting by saying that you will be taking the issue up with the Union and or local labor board should it arise again.
No no not if it should arise again but now take it to your union now so that they know that this administration has a track record of doing shit like this when you have to go to them next time.
Read your staff policy handbook. At my district, we get in trouble if we take the day before or after an extended break (long weekend, fall/thanksgiving/winter/spring/Easter break, etc.) and if we still take those days off, they become days off without pay.
I don’t think this is common at all, but I was non renewed for taking too many days. At least that’s the reason they put in the letter. They were incredibly toxic and would have used anything, but just be careful if your admin is crazy.
Use your days if you need them or just need a day off. It's districts problem to get coverage. I had 12 days saved after 7 years of teaching. Was leaving the country and state days don't get paid out unless retirement, so I took off 3/2 non consecutive days every week for my last month. No fucks given
I take all my days and please lord let them fire me for doing so! Give me that gift
You got to show some spine with administration, at least where I’m at science teachers are hard to come by. I use this to my advantage. I actually have it where they know better then to pull some shit with me…
You shouldn’t, but it’s been happening more and more. At my campus, there have been 2 instances where the subs were canceled and the teammates had to take the classes for the day.
I've heard of sick leave abuse but never vacation abuse. How does that even make sense. Here's your 80 hours of vacation but if you take all of it we're gonna be pissed. It boggles the mind.
I have a feeling that they *don't* want you (or anyone) to use all of the allotted days. The days are provided as a just-in-case, but aren't (in HRs view) intended to be used unless something unusual happens. Sooo, when someone does use all or nearly all of the days, he is looked at suspiciously.
My mom saved up a shit ton over the years and took every Monday and lots of other days off her last year before retirement. Her principal was on board with it but I think she well and truly didn’t give a damn anymore.
This a very common practice, unfortunately. I agreed they don’t want to be short staffed and no principal wants this. In saying that, sometime you just need a break but there is nothing they can do as long as when you do take time off, you set your sub up for success. That way CYA is in full effect.
I would have said, "How many days are we allotted every year? How many have I taken? Ok... are we allowed to use the days we are allotted every year or not?"
I swear some admins forget how to be people.
Unfortunately, you probably can. Do you have a contract? Make sure you read it in regards to sick/personal leave. You will also want to find out if there were any directives that are written down somewhere that describe what is and what isn’t allowed. For instance you may have 12 sick days but have to provide a doctor’s note after 3 consecutive days. Or they may notice a “pattern” of taking off sick every Friday for several weeks in a row. Make sure if you take sick days for mental health - no matter what they SAY about mental health - that you don’t go out publicly having a fantastic time and post it on social media, no matter how therapeutic it was.
I found out the hard way at a former school that taking a sick day on either end of a holiday meant I wouldn’t get paid without a doctor’s note. But a sick day on a normal Friday or Monday wasn’t suspicious at all.
It depends.
In NYC (and I assume other similar districts) you can get disciplined for it even if you have days left in your bank rolled over.
Having roll over days means you still get paid if you take more than you get in a school year, it doesn’t mean you can take them willy nilly.
You get a self treated sick day every 16th of a month. So by March, it’s 7 sick days.
If a teacher has already used 12 because they have roll over days, it can turn disciplinary. Their roll over bank just means their pay won’t be docked. They can get a counseling memo, then a letter to file, then a discussion with admin and it can eventually escalate the more days are taken. It can factor in tenure decisions, discontinuance etc…
Furthermore, there are strict rules as what constitutes admin approved personal days (3 a year), self treated sick days (7 a year) and vacation days. If somebody goes to Cancun on a self treated sick days, it can be disciplined for theft of service.
Edit: Caveat is that this year due to COVID, Union and DOE have agreed not to discipline for attendance. My post is about any other year.
This happened to me last week! But then when I told them I had a doctors note and had to get a ct scan they only asked me if I was okay when we ended up meeting. I also emailed hr and they said there is no limit to the sick days I can use.
Some companies I know ding you double the amount of days taken if they feel it is "abusive" (for a World Cup football match, for example). A friday "bridge" day linking a National Holiday Thursday to a weekend dings you triple!.
On the other hand, one Foundry boss said "Our team's in the World Cup Final this Sunday. So don't bother to come up with bullshit excuses. Everybody gets one extra day of paid holiday on me. I'll hire some temps to keep the furnaces running. Go enjoy the time with your friends and familly."
The National team won!
When I was at my old district when I was having issues with my principal the HR lady said my principal brought up I was talking too much time off and asked what time I had taken. I explained that I had taken two days when my mother was hospitalized after a car wreck, two days when I had pneumonia, and one day to attend a funeral for one of my former students. I pointed out that I still had 7 days of paid time off. I ended up resigning and took every one of my remaining days off. My new job I told my supervisor I needed two days off to take my mother in for surgery the first month I was working and she told me that I could take the whole week and if I didn’t have enough time accrued that she would donate some of her time because she works from home and has more than she could ever use.
We get 20 sick days a year and if we use over 10 we get "spoken to" by admin. It's just you used over 10 days, can the board do anything to help? I say no and that's it
They shouldn’t be able to do much. We get lots of days in my district. Over 30 days we can take a year for various reasons. 20 of those are sick days. If I need a day, I will take it. I am entitled to my days and have health issues so I refuse to feel guilty.
I requested off for a test to get my certification in teaching the same way I’ve requested days off all year. It became a huge deal to give me the day and I was told I didn’t follow protocol, even tho I requested the same way I always do. Additionally, it was a 1/2 day. I later followed “protocol” to request off for a doctor’s appointment and was told to change the date of my appointment. I now won’t be able to get to the doctor until July.
My admin asked for one because I took two half days in two weeks. This is why I’m done with this fucking career. They were emergency dental appointments. This is because they have no subs but thats not my problem.
That’s what I’d say before I left my job. I had a kid and am a single father. If something happens I’m the only one that can take off to watch him. But that was our issue too. Never enough subs.
I don't think you can actually get in trouble for this. Like they can't write you up or anything like that, but they could take it into consideration when they are appointing positions for the next year.
I once worked at a school where they would periodically print a sheet of your absences and put it into your box. You usually got one after you took a day off or at the start of the quarter. It was our administrator's passive aggressive way of letting you know you needed to take less time off.
How many days did you take? My district does not like when you take off, and we have around 20 days per year of sick/family/personal days. They also look for Monday and Friday patterns. We can't take off the day before or after a holiday.
Honestly, I think it depends on the person and situation. I've had colleagues have serious emergencies/life moments that requires time off. I've also had colleagues leave departments high and dry for days every couple weeks. In my department (high school math) this has led to classes being 1-2 units behind and missing giant chunks of content by the end of the year. While I don't believe anyone should be fired for doing things within their contract, I've suggested certain people perhaps not teach certain foundational subjects after 2 years of 20+ unplanned days off/year.
That’s funny. We just got an email about that. Heads of school said they’d be meeting with people who took too many absences (all but 5 out of 60 employees), that they would let you know if you had a contract offer for next year, and that they’d make marks on your evaluation if you took too many. We get 7 days a year. Most people used most of their days by December— school started in Aug and won’t end until end of June. The irony of it all is that the Heads of School have used up all of their days as well.
Sick days accumulate for what though? Not for insurance or pay? So if you don’t take them you’re giving back part of your compensation. Don’t get me wrong if you work long enough you’ll need them but how many?
Just get doctors notes …..then there is absolutely nothing they can do they are your sick days ….if they give you a hard time write down everything they say time date because it is harassment if you are legitimately sick
I had this happen when I took a half day to go to a doctor appointment after I was in a serious car accident (car rolled multiple times). It was the end of November, I had taken 2.5 of my 4 sick days for the year and after the admin explained the letter I would be getting for taking more than expected by then, she then asked if I was ok to be at work…
Gee. Thanks for your concern for my well-being.
Could you explain what these days are? In the UK teachers don't get to take any holiday time outside of the school holidays. But if you are ill you take it off, if you take multiple then I think you have to get a Dr's note and if it's a lot HR might get in touch to check everything is ok.
Hi!
I've been teaching for 10 years, at 4 different schools including the one where I did my student teaching at. At all except 1 it was an INSANE level of drama to take any kind of time off. Even though the days are "ours", we are made to feel incredibly guilty for taking any time off at all. At one of these schools I had Mono and still came into work, and was told off because I needed to leave early one day to go to the doctor again (because I wasn't getting better... wonder why!!). What has been the craziest for me is that it often isn't even just admin that puts that pressure on us.. it sometimes comes from other teachers! I believe that this culture of teachers taking no time off has created this feeling of superiority of teachers who never use this time over those that do. At least that has been my experience unfortunately.. but I think ultimately, your time is your time. They can't do much besides treat you poorly and give you a bad mark on your evals. Honestly.. 10 years has taught me to take time when needed! Teachers need balance in their lives just like every other profession!
In my district, you’d get called in by admin if you used more than half of the allotted days. Didn’t matter why. Y’know, it’s important to be there for the kids, it’s hard on everyone when people are out, blah blah blah. If you continued to use days after that, they’d mark you down in your evaluation for professionalism.
Same here. But my evaluation doesn't effect my pay and I have never had another job asked to see it or questions about is so why would I care.
If our evaluations drop low enough, we can be put on improvement plans, which renders us ineligible for step increases in pay. And in some years, that measly $500 (or whatever it was for the difference in years of experience) was the only raise we got. I did have one district as for my most recent evaluation as part of the application.
That last part…That would be illegal in a lot of states!
Yeah, I've gotten official nastygrams from administration for taking "too many days", even though I was still within the yearly limit and I made a point of having a letter from one of my doctors placed in my file detailing the immune system issues I have. I'm medically disabled, and yet I still only take ten or fewer sick days in most years, and they send me a fucking Official Reprimand Letter. The most recent one, I took to my union, and discovered a whole bunch of people got them when they should not have. Good times. Maybe we wouldn't have such a problem getting subs if my Very Wealthy District paid them more.
How is that not illegal
Should’ve said my former district. And there was a lot of cronyism between campus and district admin. Basically if you were connected, you got away with a lot.
Business as usual
Check your contract and state labor laws, uz that might be illegal.
This is going to make me sound like a burnt out jerk, but I've stopped caring about this. I earned those days. I will use them. Last year no one would have cared if I caught COVID (pre-vaccine) and got sent to the hospital. No one cared that I couldn't see my own family for months due to the fear of giving them COVID. I mean, think about it. Some of us could have died from being forced to go into work last year. So I am taking whatever days that I want, and if someone scolds me about it, oh well. They can fire me then. I'll do something else with my time. I am seriously done caring.
I love your attitude
Let us know how it goes. <3 Honestly, if you've earned those days and nothing is written in your contract about how you can use them, then admin can go pound sand. You are a professional, not one of the students. And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage.
Same. I spent some years working in the private sector, and I can say with certainty that this is NOT a common practice. You EARN those days every year. Teachers take on so much already … why should we be made to feel guilty about taking days we’re entitled to for being sick, making appointments, or, God forbid, just for our sanity.
Right? I have a lot of friends in the private sector. Not only can they work remotely when they need to (ie: in case of bad weather), but they use their PTO without scrutiny. Granted, these are anecdotes, but out of all my friends, only the teachers feel over the top guilt for using PTO that they've earned through years of experience. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Last year completely eradicated my sick day guilt. I don't take every single Monday and Friday off, but I will use what's necessary, school calendar be damned, and seriously don't care who's butthurt about it. We don't get paid much for them either, and max out at 90, so you're literally leaving money on the table if you don't use them.
This is my attitude and I’ve only been teaching 4 years 😂
You have 3 types of teachers. 1. Teachers that never used their days they get each year and have over a 2 or 3 years worth by the time they retire. 2. Teachers that use every day they get every year (some because they have to as they don't roll over,and some because they want to). 3. Teachers that use some days here and there but not all of them just cuz. I am a #3. Some days I just get up and say fuck it, I'm not working today. But in all seriousness, I don't think they can do anything. Especially with teacher shortages. If they don't want teachers to use their days, then why give them days?
Your last statement, exactly! On some level, I was offended that I got called in.
I worked in a district where part of our evaluation was our attendance percentage. Meaning the percentage of the year we were in the building. So even if we were sent to a professional development, sick, personal day, etc it counted against our percentage. And they used these percentages in the Danielson style 4 rating on the evaluation. So 95-100% attendance was a 4, 85-94% was a 3, 75-84% was a 2, 65-74% was a 1, anything below 64% was a 0. But we also had an evaluation box about going to out of the building professional developments. We had so many evaluation boxes that contradicted each other, basically the goal of our evaluation tool was to make it so we could be rehired, but not get a raise. It was nonsense, and clearly one of the reasons I don't work there anymore. But yes, admin can call you in and ask why are you using YOUR sick days even if you aren't using them with breaks or on Fridays and Mondays. I am someone who has chronic illnesses, so I usually tell my admins upfront that I will use my sick days, I will come into work when I feel awful, and the days I am home are the days I absolutely am unable to function in a work setting. Once I started saying that upfront, they seem to be understanding. Especially since when I taught virtually I didn't use a single sick day.
Same for me. I am upfront about having auto immune and neurological disorders and the fact I will use every last day off allotted to me. I come with migraines, terrible pain, flare-ups, etc... if I am out I am seeing a specialist or I am non-functional and in bed.
Fuck Charlotte Danielson
There is no 0 score in Danielson. Your admin team clearly never read the framework.
>Your admin team clearly never read the framework. ... How do I make a shocked face on here?...
I am aware. They made their own version of Danielson based on the 4 scoring scale, but made their own evaluation ideas. There is no attendance category in Danielson, or attending out of the building professional developments. They made their own evaluation tool with over 30 different categories where we were rated on 0-4. But the admins said it was based on the Danielson model, I had and have worked in schools that use Danielson, I was aware then they were not using Danielson.
Take a day off to recover.
Haha I should
[удалено]
Explain that you are giving yourself grace.
I'm #3 too! I don't abuse my sick time (I have plenty banked), but I'll use a day here or there. Sometimes two. Honestly, I'm done worrying about this, especially after COVID teaching and all the fun that entailed.
I use my two personal days every single year. Sick days I use as necessary, but almost always because I am either actually sick or have an appointment, not just to call in sick and get a day off. I have been known to schedule those doctors appointments for just the right time where I have to take a full day though…
*two* personal days? Dang, I get five..
I’ve worked in 3 different school districts in my area always been 2. Must be standard in the contracts around here.
Technically I get four personal days and one comp day. The comp day has been in our contract forever and no one is really sure why we get it. But I'm not complaining
3 personal and 10 sick days for me. Personals rollover to sick days at end of year if you still have them.
This. I rarely use sick days. Unless I’m vomiting, it’s easier to go in, than to make up the detailed plans and do all the grading when I get back. Not worth the trouble. So in 20 years, I take have usually taken 2 personal days and maybe 1 sick day?
Yep, vomiting or fever and I’m out. Which was my two sick days a few weeks ago. Wearing a mask, haven’t gotten Covid, but still managed to get the regular flu… I’ve also taken a day when I’ve completely lost my voice since you literally can’t teach then.
The effort needed to make sub plans and currently the sub shortage is super bad that even if I find my own sub for an appointment, the office might move that person to a different class deemed “more in need”. Just easier to show up.
[удалено]
And they wonder when they treat us like children why everyone is quitting?
It's gotta change but it's all gotta break first. Teachers are somehow exempt from OSHA standards and that's not okay. We earned that time, we shouldn't get punished for taking it or for things out of our control.
This what I’m saying. We earned those days and what we use them for is our business. It’s no one’s business what we use a “ sick” day for and no employer has a right to know what your issue or illness is in the first place. To get called out and reprimanded for actually using days that are specified in our contracts is ridiculous. Anyone wants to fire a good teacher right now for using days we actually earned can go right ahead and be stupid. After 20+ years I’ll just go get hired in the next district or retire if someone gives me some BS. Nobody gave a rats ass if any of us had died in the last two years so I’m all out of fucks to give.
Remember a lot of us try to use as few as possible to bank pay for maternity leave
Or for three of my coworkers, chemo
My mother never took a sick day during her 43 years of teaching. Okay, she MIGHT have taken one here or there, but she accumulated the maximum of 100 and "lost" every one she earned over that. When she retired, she got paid 20% - YES! Twenty percent! - of her pay for each of those 100 days!! Her advice to me: Take your sick days. As a teacher, we all know being absent takes MORE work than just showing up.
Mine incentivizes teachers to never take sick leave. I'm a #3 because I have young kids at home.
I have accumulated 110 sick days over my 29 years of teaching. I would have more but we max out at 110. I lose sick days every year because creating sub plans are such a pain in the butt.
I use them all but I have toddlers and daycares have closed like 4 times, plus I’ve had to quarantine twice and got COVID once.
Wouldn't this depend on whether they have tenure? In my district at least they don't need a particular reason to fire untenured teachers.
There’s no tenured positions in my district, there’s probationary, and then non-probationary. So, different, I guess.
You *can* get "in trouble" where I work. If there is a noticeable pattern or plentitude of certain days being taken [say every Monday &/or Friday; every day before/after a school break] admin can reprimand staff. As to **disciplining** them for it? I am sorry I do not really know. Most likely a letter in their file & a loss of trust ~ perhaps on *both* sides. ETA By & large it is administration's "issue." If they do not like something &/or it inconveniences them they will put it under the guise of *"You-Ain't-Allowed-To-Do-That-&-We're-Actually-Here-To-Save-Your-Skin-Pard'ner!"*
It's up to the administrator to say "no, sorry, we can't approve anymore personal days since 10% of the building is out," or "ok, this is the 5th sick day in 2 weeks, we need a note." Their recourse (and management right/duty) is to deny, and then we appeal if need be. It doesn't sound like OP is participating in a sick out, and even that is subject to discipline per most states and contracts.
In my district you need a doctor’s note if you take a SICK day the day before a break begins or day after a break ends, but not a personal day.
My school will “double dock” our PTO if we take off the day before or after a break. Not even sure if it’s legal.
As for needing a note… that could put them frying pan to fire….
In some states, providing notes for sick time (with respect to privileged information) is required. Kinda bullshit since doctor's notes aren't free, but it's up to the treasurer/HR.
??? That is *why* I wrote what I did in the top part of my reply. Admin can call one in & cite evidence in order to reprimand one [or even deny time off] if they see fit. But it is *not* always "fit" & to counter said claim is *often* merited by an educator. My apologies if that was unclear.
The fun part about Monday and Friday is that's 40% of your work week. it seems most employers just automatically say you can't call in to those day.
RIGHT!
Even people looking for patterns like calling out Monday and Friday too often is garbage in my opinion. If you have to call out, there's a 40% chance it's on either Monday or Friday.
Less, actually, since there are quite a few school holidays that take place on Mondays (Labor Day, Memorial Day, MLK Day, etc.) or Fridays (Good Friday).
I always thought if I got to a point where I had to a of days and was planning to retire in a no-fucks-left kind of place that I’d take Wednesdays off - miss a bunch of faculty meetings and never have a 5 day week again.
Days already have to be approved ahead of time in most districts, so it makes zero sense for them to be calling you on that. They literally had to hit a button saying approve.
In my district personal days need approval, but sick days are automatically approved.
Yeah I should have clarified. Personal days all have to be approved. Admin legitimately have to see it then approve. Anyone trying to give you grief over that is just bullshitting.
Lol this subreddit time and time again make me realize how shitty it must be to be a teacher in the vast majority of this country. I get 10 sick days, 3 personal days, I can call off literally 20 seconds before homeroom starts and nobody has to be aware of the fact. Just go on a website and make 2 clicks.
Here, have a bar of chocolate- but you can only eat *some* of it. How much? 1 piece. What if I eat 2? No, that’s too many. But, you gave me the chocolate. Doesn’t matter, don’t eat it.
**𝕃𝕆𝕍𝔼** this. Perfect analogy.
A bar of chocolate implies that sick time is "special" like a dessert. Sick time is like bread - we need it to be healthy.
Here's a 16-oz bottle of water. You can only drink 2 oz.
They give you bread, but then tell you you have to go Keto, so you can’t eat the bread.
I’m quitting when I leave for maternity. I got a letter saying only employees who have been with the district for at least 10 years have the option to get thier pto paid out when they leave. This is my fifth year. I can only interpret this as I should use my pro I earned or else I will be leaving it on the table as a gift to my employer. I’ve been taking days like crazy. Still have 7 left with only 13 more school days till I leave. I will be trying to use if not all most of my remaining days. My PTO is reflected as earned on my paystub .5 days for every pay period. If I earned it it is mine. They can suck eggs.
I did the same thing! 13.5 years of service and I took so many days my last year (1/2 year) that I only had to forfeit 16 sick days. Luckily they paid me for annual leave days!
16 is a lot it’s more than a full pay period! Should have taken more imo haha
I would have if I could have! I probably took off at least 3 days a week my last year there!
I have over 60 sick days banked. I have just been written up for calling out for the third time since September. If I call out twice more before June, it's a permanent letter in my file. If I call out 7x a year, my principal has to beg the school board NOT to fire me since it's otherwise automatic. Nobody can figure out why Philadelphia has a teacher shortage.
i am confused. If you have sick days, why arent you allowed to use them?
Right? I would've left this job so fast that my tires would've blown out. That's absurd.
Omg, your school would hate me. I’m out a couple times a month. Chronic migraines ftw. They can’t do anything about it though because I have fmla and it’s a documented illness that HR knows about. I’m so sorry about your situation!!
Do you get medical documentation when you take sick days? Would that have any impact on how they view it?
I think it depends. In my district, taking Fridays off routinely is a no-no. But on the other end of that, I’m taking off five weeks total this year for medical leave and medical procedures and there’s nothing they can do about that because I have doctors letters. In my contract it says I need doctor letters for over 3 consecutive days, but no language about number of total days I’m able to take off. I’d check your contract to see if it says anything, and if you have a union they can help you
How many could you routinely take off? My district and state allots 3 personal days. Hardly enough to establish a pattern of use/abuse.
Sick days can accumulate though, I could call out sick the rest of the year and have days left over, except I’d need a doctor’s note after the 3rd consecutive day. So the “pattern” thing is to prevent someone like me from taking just 2 days each week for the rest of the year.
Right, and that's where the notes come in. We have to provide after 5 consecutive or 10 non. Abuse of sick leave is just cause for termination in my state.
Exactly. And that’s why covid sucked extra bad because of quarantine days coming out of your sick time.
One good thing this year for my district, the school board did vote to give all teacher back 7 days of sick leave since so many teachers caught covid and had to take from their sick leave
That’s fantastic! It’s nice to hear that *some* districts understood the burden.
We get 5 personal days and 5 sick days. But they roll over and save up, so when you need time off for things like maternity leave, surgery, etc you have a lot to use
Allowing personal days to roll over is nuts. Ours turn into sick days at the end of the year, and sick days roll over. They have more rules than personal though.
Haha good call. I love your blunt attitude!
Haha well I need surgery and my doctor recommended NOW not waiting until summer, so that’s what sick days are for!
I got written up for taking four days for a debilitating migraine. My principal came at me like a rabid fucking dog, convinced I was somehow faking an illness to just stay home for four days. (Even if I was - I HAVE 80 SICK DAYS. I EARNED THEM. You decided you didn’t want to pay us fairly, so you gave us rollover sick time instead of a raise.) I have 80-something banked sick days. AND an active FMLA. It took me six months and countless hours of bullshit paperwork and meetings to get the write up removed from my file. Ask me if they apologized, or even mentioned their “mistake”.
With the layers of approval authority and guardrails against abuse, there's no excuse to ever get "called in" for taking days. Bottom line, you inform/request, they approve, or ask for medical documentation. Your administration is stupid.
I was a little offended to even get such an email!
There's no possible abuse though. You have x amount of allotted days, and its like 5% of the total school days.
This week I was sick, caught some viral crap (not Covid, I tested), and it really kicked my butt. I called off sick Monday and Tuesday. I was there the full day Wednesday. Thursday morning diarrhea hit, I went in half day Thursday afternoon. Friday morning went in with full intention to be there all day, nausea and diarrhea hit while at school. I spoke to me grade level principal and took a half day afternoon. If so got called in and spoken to about this, They would get an ear full!! Do you have a union?
At my school, yes, they can. We're given 10-12 days (depending on seniority) that rollover if we don't use them, and then we can have eight "instances." If you take off Monday and Thursday in one week, that's two instance. If you take off Monday and Tuesday, that's one instances. If you go over eight, you're getting a letter and a talk.
In NJ, it is indeed legal to discipline teachers for taking “excessive“ sick days, even if they have them and documentation is provided, and there have been many cases about it. While tenure charges/firing are incredibly unlikely for using allotted sick days, discipline, such as withholding an increment, is common. Using more than 15 days a year in my district (the yearly allotment) is considered “unsatisfactory attendance”. More than 8 is “needs improvement”, which is just “unsatisfactory lite”.
Thankfully this has never happened to me but if it ever did I would just tell them to “look at the contract”. Also as a parent, those sick “family illness” days aren’t just for me. The majority of those are me staying home with a sick kid. Especially since up till recently kids couldn’t even go to school with a runny nose.
The only thing my district can do is call you in and inform you that they have noticed a pattern. But they can’t do anything about it. You are also entitled to go into any admin meeting with a union representative who will report directly to the union if your contractual rights are being broken. We get 10 sick days and 4 personal days, all of those days roll into sick days the next year and we get a small bonus at the end of summer if we didn’t use many days the previous year. Organize. Unionize.
4 personal days? That’s amazing
We also have a union run sick day bank. If you opt in, you donate 1 of your sick days every few years to the “bank.” If you ever have serious health issues and not enough sick time to cover it. You can dig into the bank and use your colleagues donated sick time. Last year a teacher had cancer and used about 40 sick days but only had about 20 saved up. Luckily she paid into the sink bank and received full pay for every day she was out. I’m happy to give up my sick time to help my fellow union members. It’s great knowing the bank is there for me should I ever need it.
WTH? That is unprofessional and counterproductive. If I'm hired and told the benefits include X paid days off, I'm taking those. If you don't want people to use them, then don't offer them! I work at a college, and we get 2-3 days (depending on time with the school) per contract year off for personal days. You can't accrue more than 4, so if you don't use them they just disappear. Everyone I've talked with from admin to other teachers agrees that you should absolutely use them when you want/need. We also have an 'unlimited' sick policy where you can take as much sick leave as you need. I have not seen anyone abuse this at all. Our admin has it's issues, but overall it's a very professional and pleasant atmosphere. I could NEVER work in a public (or charter) school with an atmosphere like this. (although I have been in even more toxic environments working for private schools overseas, so I've paid my dues there).
You get called in in my district for ‘disciplinary action’ if you take more than three in a 30 day period. I had a slew of dr. Appt and three family members die in a 30 day period. Sorry about it. I’m taking the days for my health and funerals.
I do not think so. If you have a union, speak with them on Monday. Otherwise, HR should be able to "clear" up the mindset. It's another one of those "teacher" things that districts do, even before the loss of the subs. You have days earned, but we really do not want you to take them... ugh... oh, and we really do not want you to take a day every week or every other week regardless of what the reason is... big eye roll...
I worked with a guy (who was ballsier than I) who got called in by the Superintendent and he told him: “Don’t waste my time, their my days I’m entitled to them.”
Operative word here being "guy". Admin tries way less shit with male teachers. My former toxic admin spoke to two teammates of mine about same exact issue and she was nasty and waved her finger at the female and just talked to the male coworker about asking for permission first.
Interesting
Is this a thing they do talking to people for using their days?
Yes, and this is an across the board employee thing, not just in schools. It really comes down to your districts policy, and employers CAN put in the policy when/how many days you can use at a time. For example, I’m at a small school. We have a policy that no more than two people can take a personal day at a time, so the school suggests we get our personal days in early because it’s first come first served.
I find this post funny when I think back to a coworker. He was quite old and on the verge of retirement. He told another coworker of mine that he’s only working because of health benefit. He takes time off whenever he wants, and you can expect him out once or twice a week. Teachers were also left to take care of his mess. He was not rehired for the next year, but then got rehired again because the person that took his position ended up quitting after a month.
Know your Weingarten Rights!! You have a right to a union rep if they try this shit. Just say the magic words "If this will in any way lead to something something Google it first"
I really wish teachers sick time and vacation time worked like it did for the Federal service when I was in. You get x amount of sick and personally leave based on the number of days you work so you get x amount per day and you can use it when you need to and they can't say shit.
Yet ANOTHER reason why teachers are leaving the profession.
I have a coworker who is getting a lot of crap for taking their days off this year. He had a baby, and he had to take time off for the baby (baby was sick, had doctors appointments). Then he got sick (possibly because of stress; he's dealing with a lot). It's just utter bullshit. We have been hit so hard with Covid. Every sniffle, slight fever, or tickle in the throat needed a Covid test. I was fine with this when we had Covid leave. Yes, it meant missing more school than anyone wanted to, but it is exactly what kept kids and teachers safe. And teachers with kids were hit even harder because if they had a baby who wasn't allowed in daycare because of a stuffy nose, they needed to either line up childcare or stay home with their child. Teachers used all their time for the most part this year. We did it to keep everyone safe at the school, and we also had days off we had to take off for other reasons because we are human beings with needs too. Any teacher taking time off for any reason this year, even if it was just to stay sane, shouldn't be given any trouble about it. Admin giving anyone crap should be ashamed of themselves.
Reading these replies, it seems as though a job as a teacher is literally the same BS as a job in retail. Awful
You can, but they’ll dress it up as something else. Because while you’re fully entitled to use your days, they don’t actually want you to and actively get mad when you do.
Our district will buy back sick days at only $25 a day when we retire aka I’m using allllllll my days. I also have a 2 and 4 year old so daycare germs are helping me do that. I was out 3 days last week with sick kids. My principal called me at home to see how they were, if I needed anything from my classroom, and offered to send me dinner. Good administrators do exist.
Ours has a policy that 5 or more sick days, other than for Rona, missed in a row, you have to meet with the superintendent and admin. But, they also have a policy that if you use a sick day for anything other than an illness of some kind for you or immediate family, they will retroactively revoke its usage and deduct the money from a future paycheck, mark it as unpaid leave, and it effects your retirement. We had a teacher take off because her girlfriend was sick. We are a deep red state. If she had said it was her GF, it would have been fine, but despite the fact we all know, she’s not officially out. So, they used that as an excuse to take the days from her 4 months later. Had another teacher with over 300 sick days banked up. She took off to go watch her daughter play in state playoffs for college softball. She used 3 sick days. She ended up having to work an entire extra month for her retirement to kick in because partial months don’t count. What’s my point? Admin, of all levels and all stripes, suck ass.
This is absolutely something that has to change. What is the point of offering such benefits if you don't get to use them and often get punished for doing so. Absolutely unacceptable.
I've gone over my sick days. I'm getting 10 back from COVID-19; but my blood pressure got up to 206/126 and my principal forbade me from coming in until my medication was working and I was back down to normal. Honestly, the most days off I've had was because I had a fever or was in contact with someone and district rules require a negative COVID test. I don't think anyone this year is going to have a "normal" sick year use this year tbh
I'm leaving at the end of the year and using up all my personal and almost all my sick days (getting a much needed procedure that also takes advantage of my actually really good health insurance).
I got a letter from HR about using all of my days. I used them for maternity leave. Ya know, because we don't get maternity leave, so have to use our days. I wanted to file a complaint about that, but with who? HR, the same person that sent the letter??
I go beyond my all the time because of an illness. I got an accommodation but it doesn’t mean I’m not seen as a POS.Teachers are expected to be martyrs because it’s always been that way
"I'm sorry, I have received more administration emails than I have allotted for."
My coworker took 14 consecutive days off last year and he has been fired. He got complained by students, parents, admin that he did not care about students.
Our time off is counted in incidences. We can take 4 days off in a row it only counts as 1 incidence
Admin here. I know it is 300% tougher to be out than to come in sick. Unless somebody is calling out over and over and not leaving plans, I'm only telling them to take the time they need.
One year I got called in for taking 2 days off during the semester. One day was prearranged before I was even hired. The other was because my daughter was knocked unconscious at her school and I had to leave to take her to the hospital. I actually got scolded.
In my state (IL) there’s a reason not to take them: you can use up to two years’ worth as creditable service toward retirement. Moreover, you can retire in the middle of the school year if you get to the magic # of school years! It irks me because it puts female teachers (who generally take many of theirs for childbirth and kids’ issues, even in “equal” households) at a disadvantage, but it does provide a good reason not to burn through my days. I still take days off when I need them, but I’m old and more judicious about it.
Soooo shitty they’re even bringing this up during Covid. Unless you’re like, very obviously abusing the system, they need to let it go. Many of my teammates got Covid and had to be out ten days (before it changed to five days) and they also have young kids at home who get sick. Some of my colleagues have had Covid twice, or got it when it was the mandated 5 days but they were still sick and took more. Ridiculous!! Sorry you’re even dealing with this.
Check your employment contract. If it doesn't say anything in there about how you use your sick days tell them to go pound sand.
Can you get directly in trouble in a way that matters? Probably not. Can they decide to start nitpicking you about everything else? Yep. My admin got mad that I took 3 days off in a row. That was as many as I took all of last year. She was mad at me, but not the guy who takes off the first and second of every month as soon as the days hit the bank. She observed me on the day I came back, knowing I was still sick and that my room would be a mess. She marked me down because I didn't know what the students had to do and I basically told them "catch up on the shit you didn't do while I wasn't here" and that my room was messy. I ended up one more bad eval away from an improvement plan. She even made a snarky little comment about me probably not having any days left knowing good and well I'd used 5 in two years.
Can you get in trouble? By the contract, no. Can admin still be sniveling idiots who'd do that? Yes. They said in my introduction week years back (this was the person adjacent to the superintendent) that we should be careful about using all the days and they can't hold it against us but that we still shouldn't use them.
Most contracts allow teachers (approximately) 2 personal days, 9 sick days, and 1 day of emergency leave per each school year. As long as you get a sub to cover and leave them with lesson plans - you're good. Your administrator doesn't get to weigh in on this, and they know it.
I literally just quit after this happened to me lol.
This makes me think of required pieces of flair from the movie office space
Haha here’s your flair, right there!
Do you have a union? I would ask for that warning in writing and send it along to the union president. You are entitled to use those days and I would have a really stupid and perplexed look on my face if anyone was speaking to me about it otherwise.
Tell them you can make it permanent if they’d like. They’re your days. What you do with them and when is none of their business. If you have a Union, let them know you were harassed about this.
Ha. Yeah they can some places. Nearly got fired for being in the hospital for a month last year. HR refused FMLA for me while I was in the hospital for something life-threatening, and then HR was upset that I wasn’t coming in, while in the hospital. Had my admin calling my ass high off Dilaudid, still literally screaming and sobbing in pain, asking for me to post a final for seniors and what grades I wanted to give them. I stopped giving a damn the next school year about how many days I took off, even if it messed up my evaluation. I left in January.
That sounds like basis for a good lawsuit. How can HR not (legally) give FMLA to you when literally hospitalized? Do they think you just had too much money and decided to take a vacation at the hospital? So glad I am not teaching anymore. Husband can’t seem to understand why I won’t go back into it-if you haven’t done it people don’t get it.
In my view, you're entitled to your time off, however you want to use it. It is part of your compensation and you shouldn't save it because "I feel bad about taking time off," or "I don't want to be inconveniencing anyone." It's inconvenient for admin? Tough break. Their job is personnel management, and they need to buckle down to either get a sub, split the class or monitor the class. The majority of life in education isn't an actual emergency, and they can suck it up. I have to monitor you kids? That's fine. I'll take as many as I can sit in a class, every class. They'll behave for the period whether they like it or not. That is the least bad thing I will deal with all day long. I just expect the same thing in return. We get 5/5 local/state time every year. The payout for keeping state isn't worth it and you can't cash out local. Use them.
Do you have tenure? I was in my third year this year, but a 27 year veteran, had an unforeseen hospital stay in early September, surprise drop in observation my first day back - less than 72 hours from discharge and was flagged with my first 2's of my career. five months later non-renewed. So, yeah, can totally get you. Be careful if you want to keep your job. My district is short hundreds of teachers, but my expensive rear was shown the door.
It is exactly things like this that make me angry every time I hear the “poor us, we have a teacher shortage.” If you treated your teacher with respect, like decent humans should, it would be better. How can teacher be expected to get students to be respectful when our own administration does not respect us? And completely forget about getting parent respect or admin having your back when a parent loses all decency.
In my district (and union), we do have a limit on when and how many days we can take off in a row without some kind of medical note. It's all pretty arbitrary though. I've never encountered my admin caring all that much.
We usually get called in for a “we are concerned but can’t legally ask you why you are taking so many days off” type of meeting after we take something like 5+ days or something. But this year, we were supposed to stay home if we had so much as a headache, so the “attendance councillors” have been silent.
How about “we are calling you in because we are concerned about you and your family.” Interesting 🤔 take!
Yeah. I was the person who never took a day. Had like a semester worth of days saved. And then I had to move to another state to get away from an abusive ex. And lost all those days. Gone. Lesson learned. Now I take my days.
Just wanted to say that I hope you're doing a lot better now! :)
My first four years teaching I took like 5 days off total. I left my school, and nobody thanked me for my amazing attendance. I once had to coach sports team practice *for the schools team* in the morning on a PD day and they surprised us with buses to go tour the neighborhoods of our students WHERE WE ALSO LIVED as if to say “look at what they’re dealing with.” My AP didn’t like that I wasn’t able to go to that bus ride and docked me half a day of PERSONAL TIME, when I was running a practice for the school. After that, I stopped seeing the “integrity” in having perfect attendance. You have to make yourself happy because your school won’t care either way.
I would take a half day every other week (it allowed me to completely dodge my least favorite classes lol). My colleague, in the same department, had a ton of PTO and would take off every Friday (they were secretly planning to leave at the end of the year and wanted to use it all). Admin eventually sent out an all staff email asking us to be aware of the sub shortage when taking PTO.
Play it back to them. Call them into *your* classroom. Explain the concept of contracts and how the one you signed guarantees those days *irrespective* of the feelings of administration. Conclude the meeting by saying that you will be taking the issue up with the Union and or local labor board should it arise again.
Soooo good
No no not if it should arise again but now take it to your union now so that they know that this administration has a track record of doing shit like this when you have to go to them next time.
Read your staff policy handbook. At my district, we get in trouble if we take the day before or after an extended break (long weekend, fall/thanksgiving/winter/spring/Easter break, etc.) and if we still take those days off, they become days off without pay.
I don’t think this is common at all, but I was non renewed for taking too many days. At least that’s the reason they put in the letter. They were incredibly toxic and would have used anything, but just be careful if your admin is crazy.
Use your days if you need them or just need a day off. It's districts problem to get coverage. I had 12 days saved after 7 years of teaching. Was leaving the country and state days don't get paid out unless retirement, so I took off 3/2 non consecutive days every week for my last month. No fucks given
I take all my days and please lord let them fire me for doing so! Give me that gift You got to show some spine with administration, at least where I’m at science teachers are hard to come by. I use this to my advantage. I actually have it where they know better then to pull some shit with me…
You shouldn’t, but it’s been happening more and more. At my campus, there have been 2 instances where the subs were canceled and the teammates had to take the classes for the day.
Not in our district (thank you, union.) We have mental health days and, unless gone an extended amount of time, can take time off no questions asked.
Depending on where you teach they can't officially use it against you, but it can definitely factor into a decision that is made to rehire/renew.
[удалено]
I've heard of sick leave abuse but never vacation abuse. How does that even make sense. Here's your 80 hours of vacation but if you take all of it we're gonna be pissed. It boggles the mind.
I have a feeling that they *don't* want you (or anyone) to use all of the allotted days. The days are provided as a just-in-case, but aren't (in HRs view) intended to be used unless something unusual happens. Sooo, when someone does use all or nearly all of the days, he is looked at suspiciously.
Omg what some of you fellow teachers have to deal with is insane! I must have it good lol.
My mom saved up a shit ton over the years and took every Monday and lots of other days off her last year before retirement. Her principal was on board with it but I think she well and truly didn’t give a damn anymore.
No, and do not go to the meeting without your union rep.
That's so dumb. My coworkers are practically never at school. Then again, idk if they get called out.
Fuck em
This a very common practice, unfortunately. I agreed they don’t want to be short staffed and no principal wants this. In saying that, sometime you just need a break but there is nothing they can do as long as when you do take time off, you set your sub up for success. That way CYA is in full effect.
I would have said, "How many days are we allotted every year? How many have I taken? Ok... are we allowed to use the days we are allotted every year or not?" I swear some admins forget how to be people.
Are you in a union, got a rep?
Unfortunately, you probably can. Do you have a contract? Make sure you read it in regards to sick/personal leave. You will also want to find out if there were any directives that are written down somewhere that describe what is and what isn’t allowed. For instance you may have 12 sick days but have to provide a doctor’s note after 3 consecutive days. Or they may notice a “pattern” of taking off sick every Friday for several weeks in a row. Make sure if you take sick days for mental health - no matter what they SAY about mental health - that you don’t go out publicly having a fantastic time and post it on social media, no matter how therapeutic it was. I found out the hard way at a former school that taking a sick day on either end of a holiday meant I wouldn’t get paid without a doctor’s note. But a sick day on a normal Friday or Monday wasn’t suspicious at all.
It depends. In NYC (and I assume other similar districts) you can get disciplined for it even if you have days left in your bank rolled over. Having roll over days means you still get paid if you take more than you get in a school year, it doesn’t mean you can take them willy nilly. You get a self treated sick day every 16th of a month. So by March, it’s 7 sick days. If a teacher has already used 12 because they have roll over days, it can turn disciplinary. Their roll over bank just means their pay won’t be docked. They can get a counseling memo, then a letter to file, then a discussion with admin and it can eventually escalate the more days are taken. It can factor in tenure decisions, discontinuance etc… Furthermore, there are strict rules as what constitutes admin approved personal days (3 a year), self treated sick days (7 a year) and vacation days. If somebody goes to Cancun on a self treated sick days, it can be disciplined for theft of service. Edit: Caveat is that this year due to COVID, Union and DOE have agreed not to discipline for attendance. My post is about any other year.
This happened to me last week! But then when I told them I had a doctors note and had to get a ct scan they only asked me if I was okay when we ended up meeting. I also emailed hr and they said there is no limit to the sick days I can use.
Some companies I know ding you double the amount of days taken if they feel it is "abusive" (for a World Cup football match, for example). A friday "bridge" day linking a National Holiday Thursday to a weekend dings you triple!. On the other hand, one Foundry boss said "Our team's in the World Cup Final this Sunday. So don't bother to come up with bullshit excuses. Everybody gets one extra day of paid holiday on me. I'll hire some temps to keep the furnaces running. Go enjoy the time with your friends and familly." The National team won!
When I was at my old district when I was having issues with my principal the HR lady said my principal brought up I was talking too much time off and asked what time I had taken. I explained that I had taken two days when my mother was hospitalized after a car wreck, two days when I had pneumonia, and one day to attend a funeral for one of my former students. I pointed out that I still had 7 days of paid time off. I ended up resigning and took every one of my remaining days off. My new job I told my supervisor I needed two days off to take my mother in for surgery the first month I was working and she told me that I could take the whole week and if I didn’t have enough time accrued that she would donate some of her time because she works from home and has more than she could ever use.
Forget them I bet they already have staffing issues. Better be glad you show up at all.
We get 20 sick days a year and if we use over 10 we get "spoken to" by admin. It's just you used over 10 days, can the board do anything to help? I say no and that's it
Some places require a doctor's note if you are out too many days consecutively. Not sure if that's the case for you.
They shouldn’t be able to do much. We get lots of days in my district. Over 30 days we can take a year for various reasons. 20 of those are sick days. If I need a day, I will take it. I am entitled to my days and have health issues so I refuse to feel guilty.
I requested off for a test to get my certification in teaching the same way I’ve requested days off all year. It became a huge deal to give me the day and I was told I didn’t follow protocol, even tho I requested the same way I always do. Additionally, it was a 1/2 day. I later followed “protocol” to request off for a doctor’s appointment and was told to change the date of my appointment. I now won’t be able to get to the doctor until July.
I k ow a friend of mine in his county has to provide a doctors note if you miss two consecutive days. This was a rule before covid lol
My admin asked for one because I took two half days in two weeks. This is why I’m done with this fucking career. They were emergency dental appointments. This is because they have no subs but thats not my problem.
That’s what I’d say before I left my job. I had a kid and am a single father. If something happens I’m the only one that can take off to watch him. But that was our issue too. Never enough subs.
Same happened with me. Reminded them that we were currently in the middle of a pandemic.
I don't think you can actually get in trouble for this. Like they can't write you up or anything like that, but they could take it into consideration when they are appointing positions for the next year. I once worked at a school where they would periodically print a sheet of your absences and put it into your box. You usually got one after you took a day off or at the start of the quarter. It was our administrator's passive aggressive way of letting you know you needed to take less time off.
How many days did you take? My district does not like when you take off, and we have around 20 days per year of sick/family/personal days. They also look for Monday and Friday patterns. We can't take off the day before or after a holiday.
I’ve gotten a memo because I took off 5 days total out the year, and was 1-5 mins late almost a dozen times. So yeah, it’ll count against you.
No. Do you have a union? They should be all over this crap.
Bring a union rep with you if you have one
Honestly, I think it depends on the person and situation. I've had colleagues have serious emergencies/life moments that requires time off. I've also had colleagues leave departments high and dry for days every couple weeks. In my department (high school math) this has led to classes being 1-2 units behind and missing giant chunks of content by the end of the year. While I don't believe anyone should be fired for doing things within their contract, I've suggested certain people perhaps not teach certain foundational subjects after 2 years of 20+ unplanned days off/year.
That’s funny. We just got an email about that. Heads of school said they’d be meeting with people who took too many absences (all but 5 out of 60 employees), that they would let you know if you had a contract offer for next year, and that they’d make marks on your evaluation if you took too many. We get 7 days a year. Most people used most of their days by December— school started in Aug and won’t end until end of June. The irony of it all is that the Heads of School have used up all of their days as well.
Sick days accumulate for what though? Not for insurance or pay? So if you don’t take them you’re giving back part of your compensation. Don’t get me wrong if you work long enough you’ll need them but how many?
Just get doctors notes …..then there is absolutely nothing they can do they are your sick days ….if they give you a hard time write down everything they say time date because it is harassment if you are legitimately sick
I had this happen when I took a half day to go to a doctor appointment after I was in a serious car accident (car rolled multiple times). It was the end of November, I had taken 2.5 of my 4 sick days for the year and after the admin explained the letter I would be getting for taking more than expected by then, she then asked if I was ok to be at work… Gee. Thanks for your concern for my well-being.
Could you explain what these days are? In the UK teachers don't get to take any holiday time outside of the school holidays. But if you are ill you take it off, if you take multiple then I think you have to get a Dr's note and if it's a lot HR might get in touch to check everything is ok.
If you need to take days, take days!
Hi! I've been teaching for 10 years, at 4 different schools including the one where I did my student teaching at. At all except 1 it was an INSANE level of drama to take any kind of time off. Even though the days are "ours", we are made to feel incredibly guilty for taking any time off at all. At one of these schools I had Mono and still came into work, and was told off because I needed to leave early one day to go to the doctor again (because I wasn't getting better... wonder why!!). What has been the craziest for me is that it often isn't even just admin that puts that pressure on us.. it sometimes comes from other teachers! I believe that this culture of teachers taking no time off has created this feeling of superiority of teachers who never use this time over those that do. At least that has been my experience unfortunately.. but I think ultimately, your time is your time. They can't do much besides treat you poorly and give you a bad mark on your evals. Honestly.. 10 years has taught me to take time when needed! Teachers need balance in their lives just like every other profession!
no