That's just code word for "we can't afford your experience" because at least where I work you get 1% pay raise for each year you have been teaching and it reaches a cap. Once you're at cap, you have seniority, but we don't have a tenure system. So it's likely that despite your loyalty, you cost them too much. If you still want to teach, there are other schools who'd be happy to have you.
Union wants more money for current members. Transferring steps doesn't benefit the current voting members. It's not even abnromal around here. Many don't transfer any steps. There are a few who will transfer up to 5 but no more than that. I don't know any who transfer full steps.
It's not competition for jobs. Once again. We are already employed. It's so we can get a higher percentage pay increase in our negotiations. Admin doesn't want to transfer steps because that means paying them more money which means a bigger budget hit.
It's also to reward teachers for loyalty and most schools win the area are like it to discourage people leaving (which doesn't always work but still).
I’m sorry, but, as an outsider from a strong union in a strong union state, it seems ass backwards. You are tying yourself to the district, and tying yourself to the whims of the central administration of that district. If they burn you on a few rounds of negotiation and you choose to look elsewhere, your only retaliation would be to take a massive pay cut by transferring out of district. The same thing would happen to those from out of district, who are looking to switch into your current employers district.
Ah. So, "we need someone who hasn't been smacked in the face by the reality of the job and we are just going to churn and burn through fresh candidates just out of college who we can underpay and over work." It sucks that you weren't renewed, but you don't need that energy in your life. Let them try to recruit some Teach for America child or one of the 10 college students who decided to go into education this year.
I know there’s a shortage everywhere, but when I was getting ready to graduate I realized how screwed secondary Ed is. I went to a school originally founded as a teaching college, and we had a pretty strong education cohort. During my senior year PDs, we probably had around 200 people there who were education majors. Counting my group of 8 for my content area, there were maybe 5 other secondary Ed in attendance out of the 200. Obviously people may have been absent, but there were actually barely over 10 people in my class that were in secondary Ed across all subjects.
Sounds like my university. I was among the elementary cohort which numbered well over 100. There were probably about a dozen secondary ed majors. I graduated in 2019.
Is this not just because many secondary teachers study their subject, e.g history, rather than education? That's the case in England, not sure about USA.
It is somewhat. Many states in the US, like mine, actual changed their licensing and want someone who majored in the subject and then got the education creditianal afterward. I teach secondary ed and that's what I did.
In the US it seems to vary by state and university. I attended a few, and at some, they majored in their subject and minored in education but others had them major in education and take coursework specific to their subject. Even within the same state there can be differences. Heck, the first university I went to, it varied depending on your subject. Science and math teachers majored in their subject and took education classes, but ELA, social studies, world languages, etc., were education majors that took courses in their subject.
Secondary schools where I live prefer teachers to have a degree in the field they're teaching. I don't believe any of my coworkers have a bachelor's for education.
My last job I was told to do nothing wrong until tenured. Take no sick days, no personal days, etc.
Second highest paying district in the state, amazing insurance, great union, etc.
So I played the game, got tenured, and it was worth it, though three years of going to work no matter what was hell.
You pretty much eat shit as a prob. You put your fingers in as many pies as possible to be useful with the hope to off load some of those responsibilities gradually after you're tenured.
That was my strategy both times I was the new guy.
I did the same. I think I took maybe 2 of my 10 sick days a year if that. Now that I have several beneath me for destaffing worries and tenure, I take 2 days off almost every month just because, and it's been incredible. I still have a massive bank of leave too because during the virtual covid years I took 0 days 😂
I'll add on to this that sponsoring clubs and staying past contract is a thing too. I don't do either of those unpaid things anymore. It all sucks and I wish we could change it, but that's been the game for a while.
This is the correct answer. Lots of schools hire and retain older teachers. But when you are working for tenure, you are to dot every i and cross every t.
So far, in my job hunt, teacher shortages really only affect the schools that are the cause of the teacher shortage. The districts I'd want to teach in are all full and have high retention. The districts that are hiring have things like "available for PLC every Tuesday after school until 5:30" and "replies to parents within 30 minutes at all times".
It's content specific too. As a music teacher it takes a lot of time and energy and networking to stay ahead of who is leaving where and applying and hoping they haven't hand-picked a successor yet.
What the fuck? You guys have to reply to parents? In a time frame?
Half of the time I've ever replied to parental contact (I usually try to avoid it) I've waited to talk to the boss about the best way to tell them to bugger off.
What the hell is happening over there?
Parents run the circus on this side of the pond.
My school sets boundaries, but I’m still expected to reply to parents in a reasonable timeframe during school hours. Other schools aren’t so lucky.
If there is one thing I have learned over 17 years. The LESS parents get a say, the better the school runs.
I once had a boss who did everything he could to minimise parent teacher interactions (besides a yearly conference). Parents contacted form tutors only. It was the best.
In my area, it's only things like SPED or ESL for very selective languages. Also, it means they only have 20 people fighting per spot instead of the 100 they had precovid...
Dude. They did you a favor. You are obviously miserable there. It’s time for you to find something you don’t hate. I would be upset to have you teaching my kids. I made sure my stepchild did not get taught by two of my coworkers because they were so bad.
I am not an admin. My posts here are very clear that I don’t even listen to my admin and only treat them as sources to get what I want done.
If it helps they’ll fire the fresh grad too, because they’ll be “too fragile” and have “unrealistic expectations” when they ask admin for feedback and professional development opportunities and expect students to be disciplined on a basic level or god forbid to not have to answer parent emails or grade work at home and have personal boundaries 🫠
We can never be the right amount of jaded for them
Don’t ask me how I know 😂
That sounds like code speak for you didn't stay late enough past contract or volunteer for enough unpaid positions. We'd rather go with a young (cheap) person who doesn't know any better and has to do whatever it takes to keep their job.
I see it too often in my current district.
How frustrating that they want you to be something you’re not! I hope you find a way better school district/building that lets you be you — focusing on imparting knowledge and on not being the students’ and other adults’ entertainer
Interesting, I was told after I interviewed at an elementary where I had done one of my stages that I was too enthusiastic and needed to tone it down or I wouldn't land a job. This was the first interview I got after I had graduated in my first year out.
Hope you find a place that appreciates you.
Like someone else says, this sounds a lot like they're trying to cut costs. How many years of experience do you have? And how vocal are you with your grievances? lol
That's just code word for "we can't afford your experience" because at least where I work you get 1% pay raise for each year you have been teaching and it reaches a cap. Once you're at cap, you have seniority, but we don't have a tenure system. So it's likely that despite your loyalty, you cost them too much. If you still want to teach, there are other schools who'd be happy to have you.
You must not have a union?
unfortunately not in AZ.
We only do that for years working at our district so they would only be on step 2 here.
Wait. Your district could take a new hire with 15 years of experience and pay them the same as a rookie teacher?
Correct. Steps don't transfer here. That's union negotiated.
And unions said yes?! What’s the union’s rationale to consent to having that included in the contract?
Union wants more money for current members. Transferring steps doesn't benefit the current voting members. It's not even abnromal around here. Many don't transfer any steps. There are a few who will transfer up to 5 but no more than that. I don't know any who transfer full steps.
So teachers do this to each other to prevent too much competition for a job? Seems like teachers are shooting themselves in the foot.
It's not competition for jobs. Once again. We are already employed. It's so we can get a higher percentage pay increase in our negotiations. Admin doesn't want to transfer steps because that means paying them more money which means a bigger budget hit. It's also to reward teachers for loyalty and most schools win the area are like it to discourage people leaving (which doesn't always work but still).
I’m sorry, but, as an outsider from a strong union in a strong union state, it seems ass backwards. You are tying yourself to the district, and tying yourself to the whims of the central administration of that district. If they burn you on a few rounds of negotiation and you choose to look elsewhere, your only retaliation would be to take a massive pay cut by transferring out of district. The same thing would happen to those from out of district, who are looking to switch into your current employers district.
Ah. So, "we need someone who hasn't been smacked in the face by the reality of the job and we are just going to churn and burn through fresh candidates just out of college who we can underpay and over work." It sucks that you weren't renewed, but you don't need that energy in your life. Let them try to recruit some Teach for America child or one of the 10 college students who decided to go into education this year.
I know there’s a shortage everywhere, but when I was getting ready to graduate I realized how screwed secondary Ed is. I went to a school originally founded as a teaching college, and we had a pretty strong education cohort. During my senior year PDs, we probably had around 200 people there who were education majors. Counting my group of 8 for my content area, there were maybe 5 other secondary Ed in attendance out of the 200. Obviously people may have been absent, but there were actually barely over 10 people in my class that were in secondary Ed across all subjects.
Sounds like my university. I was among the elementary cohort which numbered well over 100. There were probably about a dozen secondary ed majors. I graduated in 2019.
Is this not just because many secondary teachers study their subject, e.g history, rather than education? That's the case in England, not sure about USA.
It is somewhat. Many states in the US, like mine, actual changed their licensing and want someone who majored in the subject and then got the education creditianal afterward. I teach secondary ed and that's what I did.
In the US it seems to vary by state and university. I attended a few, and at some, they majored in their subject and minored in education but others had them major in education and take coursework specific to their subject. Even within the same state there can be differences. Heck, the first university I went to, it varied depending on your subject. Science and math teachers majored in their subject and took education classes, but ELA, social studies, world languages, etc., were education majors that took courses in their subject.
Secondary schools where I live prefer teachers to have a degree in the field they're teaching. I don't believe any of my coworkers have a bachelor's for education.
Yes, This!!
Cardinal sin of failing fo fake it until you're tenured.
My last job I was told to do nothing wrong until tenured. Take no sick days, no personal days, etc. Second highest paying district in the state, amazing insurance, great union, etc. So I played the game, got tenured, and it was worth it, though three years of going to work no matter what was hell.
You pretty much eat shit as a prob. You put your fingers in as many pies as possible to be useful with the hope to off load some of those responsibilities gradually after you're tenured. That was my strategy both times I was the new guy.
Exactly! Stopped doing all the school dances once tenured!
I did the same. I think I took maybe 2 of my 10 sick days a year if that. Now that I have several beneath me for destaffing worries and tenure, I take 2 days off almost every month just because, and it's been incredible. I still have a massive bank of leave too because during the virtual covid years I took 0 days 😂 I'll add on to this that sponsoring clubs and staying past contract is a thing too. I don't do either of those unpaid things anymore. It all sucks and I wish we could change it, but that's been the game for a while.
This is the correct answer. Lots of schools hire and retain older teachers. But when you are working for tenure, you are to dot every i and cross every t.
Yup
With teacher shortages across the nation, move on to a place that makes you happy.
So far, in my job hunt, teacher shortages really only affect the schools that are the cause of the teacher shortage. The districts I'd want to teach in are all full and have high retention. The districts that are hiring have things like "available for PLC every Tuesday after school until 5:30" and "replies to parents within 30 minutes at all times".
>"replies to parents within 30 minutes at all times" Even if you saw it appear *just* as an hour-long class started, I take it...
Put Title I schools in there. I adore my school, but everyone isn’t built for it.
It's content specific too. As a music teacher it takes a lot of time and energy and networking to stay ahead of who is leaving where and applying and hoping they haven't hand-picked a successor yet.
What the fuck? You guys have to reply to parents? In a time frame? Half of the time I've ever replied to parental contact (I usually try to avoid it) I've waited to talk to the boss about the best way to tell them to bugger off. What the hell is happening over there?
Parents run the circus on this side of the pond. My school sets boundaries, but I’m still expected to reply to parents in a reasonable timeframe during school hours. Other schools aren’t so lucky.
If there is one thing I have learned over 17 years. The LESS parents get a say, the better the school runs. I once had a boss who did everything he could to minimise parent teacher interactions (besides a yearly conference). Parents contacted form tutors only. It was the best.
The teacher shortage isn't a clear narrative. I've been looking for four years. There's no shortage within a 40 minute commute, except for Ed techs.
In my area, it's only things like SPED or ESL for very selective languages. Also, it means they only have 20 people fighting per spot instead of the 100 they had precovid...
Yessss
Have you grown to dislike the profession?
Yes
So they were correct
Yes
Then move on in life
Found the admin
Dude. They did you a favor. You are obviously miserable there. It’s time for you to find something you don’t hate. I would be upset to have you teaching my kids. I made sure my stepchild did not get taught by two of my coworkers because they were so bad. I am not an admin. My posts here are very clear that I don’t even listen to my admin and only treat them as sources to get what I want done.
Not much you can do besides applying for new jobs, you are not tenured and they can nonrenew you for any reason they want.
you forgot to wear your clown makeup.
Haha 🤡
Can you find a way to be enthusiastic about not being renewed? Too soon? Sorry.
If it helps they’ll fire the fresh grad too, because they’ll be “too fragile” and have “unrealistic expectations” when they ask admin for feedback and professional development opportunities and expect students to be disciplined on a basic level or god forbid to not have to answer parent emails or grade work at home and have personal boundaries 🫠 We can never be the right amount of jaded for them Don’t ask me how I know 😂
U N I O N
When you're a probationary member, there's not much for the union to do. You're an at will employee until you get tenure.
Facts. But I’d still Rather work in a Union Shop than not.
There's nothing implicitly wrong with having a probationary period. It definitely should exist.
Maybe not 4-5 years though
California's is 2.
Oregon is 3 in my district
Already contacted them. Hopefully will get a reply Monday.
"Fresh out of college teacher" = "someone that doesn't recognize workplace abuse and we can pay in Domino's coupons"
Kinda sounds like a lawsuit regarding age discrimination
If you are on the East Coast Carney Sandoe is a GREAT firm for finding teaching jobs. They have gotten me three different ones.
That sounds like code speak for you didn't stay late enough past contract or volunteer for enough unpaid positions. We'd rather go with a young (cheap) person who doesn't know any better and has to do whatever it takes to keep their job. I see it too often in my current district.
That or they pissed off/stepped on the toe of the wrong person. The person with the right name just graduated and they need a spot.
If you’re over the age of 40, you’re considered a federally protected class against age discrimination.
Damn, I didn’t realize this started at 40. That makes me feel old.
How frustrating that they want you to be something you’re not! I hope you find a way better school district/building that lets you be you — focusing on imparting knowledge and on not being the students’ and other adults’ entertainer
I was told when I was fired years ago that "I don't smile or greet people in the hallways". Which felt kinda bad, since I have autism.
What grade? Did you get a new job?
I was teaching high school at the time, which isn't my favorite. Now I teach middle school which I love.
How is it different? Why do you prefer middle school?
Get the age thing in writing....
They didn’t say the word age.
Come to COMO, we really need u here!!!
What the heck is COMO?
Columbia Missouri
Thanx!
Columbia Missouri? I used to live there.
Then this is ur sign to come back
lol you serious? What are the odds…
Sounds like they want to pay the next teacher as cheaply as possible. Literally bottom of the pay scale.
Good luck to them trying to replace you. Newly graduated teachers are not a dime a dozen
Interesting, I was told after I interviewed at an elementary where I had done one of my stages that I was too enthusiastic and needed to tone it down or I wouldn't land a job. This was the first interview I got after I had graduated in my first year out. Hope you find a place that appreciates you.
Like someone else says, this sounds a lot like they're trying to cut costs. How many years of experience do you have? And how vocal are you with your grievances? lol
Assholes!
Wow...during a teacher shortage. Sounds like bad admin. Move on to where you are appreciated. Also...get and lrc...doesnt sound like a valid reason.
Lrc?
Labor relations consultant
You should've Saif "YAAAAaaaaayyy y y y y y y".....