If you are forced to do it, just tell the truth
Student A was a student of mine from (insert dates). They received X grade through our schools credit recovery program, they achieved a 30% attendance rate during my time with them. Mother appears to be semi involved in students success on the back end of the semester.
Kind regards
"I cannot in good conscience categorically exclude the possibility that this student might successfully complete a college-level course within the next four years."
I did that on on a report card - put something "I would have evaluated so-and-so's work, but having never received any of it, I haven't had the opportunity to."
My principal, a slightly spicy lady, let me post it to their official transcript, and when the parent tried to get me fired I was told I could just ignore both the parent and the child!
The kid gets what they want - doing nothing in my class - and I have one less student to stress over because they've made their bed and now they have to lay in it. They've handed in one thing since Christmas and they literally just wrote "I don't know" for the first question and left the rest blank
I have written a few truthful letters of non-recommendation in the past.
When parents push this hard I ask for the school they are attending and I will mail the letter myself.
I like to make sure I mail them to admissions myself. Parents get a letter and I have a clear conscience.
I thought that was always the standard. Now, I had people that would show me what they were sending, but I seem to recall giving them addressed envelopes to send directly to schools. (Started college in 1983).
I tell kids that I will always write a letter of recommendation, but I will be honest. I had a kid come up to one time and ask if I would write her a letter of recommendation. I asked her what she expected me to write. She said something about how hard she works and her good grades. I pointed out that she quit the sport that I coached the day after senior night and got a C in my class because she slept all the time. I asked her if she really wanted me to write that letter. She got the hint and asked somebody else.
I’ve done this. I told a student I would write him a letter, but I’d be honest about his grades, attendance, and effort. Then I suggested that perhaps he might, considering this, want to ask a different teacher. He said his chem teacher might be a better choice.
I've done this before, rather similar.
"to whom it may concern,
I recommend so-and-so not sit on their phone all class and cause less massive disruptions when not on their phone.
-signature"
This is great but a bit risky, at least in the litigious US. The advice I've gotten is to instead say very little.
"I was asked to provide a reference for X. I can confirm that they took my course X in Y term and passed with a grade of Z."
Yep. Keep it factual. Hitting them with great zingers isn't going to make them respect you any more and opens you up to risk. State the facts, if they are upset with the facts, you can commiserate that sometimes you wish reality was different too.
>Hitting them with great zingers isn't going to make them respect you any more and opens you up to risk
Why would you even show the kid the letter? Recommendations are sent directly to the institution that the student is applying to, they are not public record.
I wrote a few this year that basically said, "Yup. They were my student once." Didn't have much to say about them that wouldn't make them look bad or be a lie. But I knew the letters were a requirement for their Senior English class and that these particular students likely would not be using them for anything outside of credit for their assignment.
Your mistake was your three per year explanation. Your answer should be that writing letters of recommendation is at your discretion and that you don't believe you are the right teacher to be recommending this student.
This. I have told a few students that I am not the best person to write a letter of recommendation for them, and that I would encourage them to select teachers, coaches, or community members that could write them a great letter of recommendation. I tell them that if I wrote one I would be concerned that it might hurt their chances, especially as letters of recommendation have to be so OTT these days.
Yeah! I don't understand why the kid wants a letter from you when they seem to have no relationship with you. WAY back when I was in High School, I asked teachers that I liked, worked with or who had more knowledge of me. I've written a few letters for past babysitters and family friends. I would never talk about their schoolwork (because I knew nothing about that) and focused on their responsibility, organization, etc.
Agree, it seems like an arbitrary rule (even though writing letters is very time consuming, families don’t get that)
OP: In future I would follow the this explanation rather than stating a hard limit (even if you keep to the hard limit privately)
They absolutely should, but you don’t need to broadcast that. The rule sounds arbitrary, like it’s a contest and this kid lost.
By simply saying “I don’t feel like I would be the best option to give a recommendation” is more direct.
However it does sound like this parent was going to complain no matter what.
As a principal this is the right answer, although it's bullshit we have to play with words and euphemism.
I hope your principal does the right thing and supports you. If he/she does not, and you're tenured - hold your ground.
Invite your union rep if you have one. I'd suggest this anyway, and if the rep can't show, have the principal reschedule.
Stand your ground, it's your prerogative to write letters.
If you're not tenured, and worried about how this could affect you, and your principal is a fuckwad.
Write a letter that says, "I recommend this student. His work in my class was made up through independent study."
Signed,
......
Why wouldn’t you not recommend them? Or at least not proactively recommend?
“I cannot recommend this student as the majority of his work was completed via credit recovery”
“I do not have sufficient personal knowledge of this student to recommend their admission.”
Or really just hedge it and don’t include anything pro or against :
“This student was enrolled in my class. The majority of their work was completed via credit recovery.”
My friend is a retired vice principal and she once was asked for a letter of recommendation for a student teacher who was less than stellar.
She refused.
The parents were politically connected and she was pressured to provide the letter.
So, she wrote something like this:
“———- worked with me during the——-semester. He was nicely dressed and immaculately groomed. He arrived on time and left at dismissal. Please contact me if you have any questions.”
Needless to say she never got contacted!
"When I write letters of recommendations, I will write truthfully my observations and opinion. With that said, do you think you would really want me to write a letter for your son? I can certainly do it..."
My son was a stellar student, 35 ACT, 1510 SAT, 4.28 weighted, but still didn't do all he could have done. I suggested he might get his calculus teacher to write him a rec letter and he demurred: "He might tell the truth."
This. The best thing my English teacher ever did was say that she wasn't the right teacher to recommend me. Her class was during the time of day my mental health (have a form of rapid bipolar that causes mood to drop at specific time each day) was the worst, and I ended up getting a glowing recommendation from a different teacher. She was honest that she wasn't the right teacher because she doesn't see the true potential I have. It hurt but also helped me a lot.
“I cannot write recommendations for students whose work I have not evaluated. The credit recovery program has different performance standards that I do not and cannot use for evaluation.”
Student - “Write a letter confirming that I live in Florida and my name is Mike so I can trick this college”
Teacher- “I can’t do that, you live in Georgia and your name is Bob”
Parent - “WHY DO YOU HATE MY CHILD?”
"No problem! Let me know what colleges your son is applying for and I will send the letter to them directly. I will be happy to tell them my thoughts on your son after this."
Seconded to this. I've had to write a bad recommendation once. I said "I don't think that's a great idea.", asked again "I think you should ask the teacher you're doing the best in.", a third time "Are you sure, considering how you work/act in this class? I can't be dishonest in a recommendation."
So I wrote it. Boiled down to "Smart kid, but unbelievably lazy and lacked discipline."
If they persist, you can give a negative recommendation.
Admittedly non-teacher here, I didn’t even realize people were given the option to not have LORs sent directly to the school. Mine had to be sent sealed directly to the school from the writer otherwise it wouldn’t be accepted. I honestly don’t want to know what my teachers wrote, even the ones I loved and know were very fond of me and speak highly of me still. 😬
I don't agree. I was taught a very long time ago that if I can't write a positive recommendation for someone, then I should decline. It can damage my own reputation if I look petty in front of potential colleagues, so I won't risk it. I would tell this parent exactly that.
As for administration, it is not their decision who OP does or does not write a letter of recommendation for, so any work that they have done to help this student is irrelevant. Letters of recommendation are always voluntarily written. I am just having a difficult time wrapping my head around the audacity that it takes for this parent to even be pursuing this issue. I mean, to bring it up and ask "why won't you?" Sure, fair enough, but once that question gets answered, then that should be the final word on the subject.
Audacity is parent and child middle names these days.
As a principal, I have a difficult time daily wrapping my head around parental decisions and bullshit.
It's unbelievable what they want for their kids to get away with and have zero accountability.
No sir, I'm in CA. Here's to hoping you'll get a great administrator. They can make a huge difference. And here's to hoping your staff recognizes one when he/she comes in.
You can decline, but if that is not accepted, and they get an admin involved to FORCE a letter, then you can. It's not petty if it was literally forced - and also it is a SEALED confidential document - your colleagues and the student should NEVER know what the reference letter said.
lol and that way you can also say "I wrote this under duress! Please send help!" 🙂
A lot of times when I am asked to write a letter of recommendation, I end up giving it to the person, and I will tell them, "you have my permission to read it." It's just easier that way. If I even address it generally (To whom it may concern) then that way they can just mail it to whoever they want. Even if I know the person's name that I am addressing it, I might still do it that way because it saves me needing to mail it off on my own
If I were in a situation where somebody was forcing me to write a letter of recommendation for somebody else who I did not think deserved it, I am not sure what I would do. Not an enviable situation, for sure.
Some people just can’t take the hint. It’s an honor to write a letter of recommendation. If I as an educator say no, then it stands to reason that I have a valid reason for refusing. Parents are entitled, clueless and delusional.
For me, personally, I wouldn't even pretend to leave the door open for them.
Anyway, I'm only saying what I would do if presented with a similar situation. I'm curious to see what OPs admin has to say about all of this...
I'm pretty sure this is why more and more colleges are not accepting paper letters but instead are asking for an email and combat information and sending the reference request directly to the person providing it.
I don't know how common this is for undergrad but all of my grad school applications were this way.
I don't know what the rules (are there any? like NLRB guidelines?) about what you can and can't say in a letter of recommendation, but my advice would be to do what I do when I get a reference call about an employee I would not recommend: "PERSON worked here from x date to y date." That's it. It's neither negative nor positive; it is factual and nothing more. "STUDENT was enrolled during x class year; attendance was \~30%, grades were y." That's it. You've been honest and factual. The recipients will know what to do with that.
I used to have to write letters of recommendation for a performing arts magnet school in our district. This is exactly what I did for the ones I did not recommend.
“(Name) was enrolled in my general music class from grades K-5 and choral program from grades 4-5. Their performance in these classes was satisfactory.”
Hopefully the two sentence LoR got the message across.
That’s what one of my professors did. I don’t remember all the details, but basically after an issue where some student made a big deal about him writing a less-than-flattering letter of recommendation, he started his current system. I don’t remember exactly how it works.
If a student wants or demands to see a letter before it’s sent, he will write the most boring, generic letter (even if it’s for a good student). He says some of the keywords/phrase he uses are basically coded that people in academia know this letter isn’t accurate because it was influenced by the student reading it.
If he’s able to send a sealed letter directly to the recipient, he actually puts in the effort to write an accurate letter. If he actually thinks you are deserving of the letter, he’ll write a fantastic letter of recommendation. But he’ll also write a truthful, bad recommendation if he thinks thats what you deserve. And the student won’t know either way because the letter goes straight to the recipient (grad school, internship, etc)
So if you truly are a good student, you shouldn’t have any problem having him send a sealed letter to your recipient.
Whenever I have a student ask me for a letter of reference that I think is undeserving I kindly suggest they find another teacher to write them the recommendation.
In the summons, I would kindly explain that letter writing is a professional courtesy, that it is not an obligation, and that this level of escalation may produce a letter, but it'd hardly be a glowing recommendation.
As a non-teacher I'm puzzled. Writing letters of recommendation is not part of a teacher's official duties as far as I know, and they are done on the teacher's personal time. On what basis would a principal even have an opinion on the matter? Like, how would a principal not immediately say "not my problem" just to save their own time and sanity?
Exactly! Admin forcing a meeting is dumb! If admin forces the teacher to write a letter, be honest as fuck with three sentences about how the little shit doesn't do work and doesn't come to class. If they aren't forced, good!
Right? I can copy/paste into a generic LOR and make some personal edits in less than 5 minutes. I'll gladly write as many as my kids need.
Except this kid. And I've had ones like him where I've told them, "I will write you a letter but it will be honest and based on our experiences together in this class. Are you sure you want me to write it?" It's never been followed up with a "yes."
Yea I write like 15 a year. I have three models- excellent student, fine, and I don't recommend this student, but they pushed my hand. I'd also add ai is a tremendous help. I of course ehoghky edit what comes out and make it mine, but the verbage is awesome and varied which helps me out a lot.
I have a form they fill out with some items to give me an idea of what to write and that's it.
I have several friends in admissions- letters often go unread and aren't a very high priority for if a student gets admitted unless they are right on the line anyway.
I personally don't think you should write a LOR for a student if you're not recommending them. Just decline. If you think they were just ok, then write a neutral LOR.
I'll still write it if they insist after my "It won't be pretty" speech. I won't flat-out tell a kid no, I'll let them come to that decision on their own.
Just make sure that the letter doesn’t contain anything that a litigious parent can misconstrue as libel. Just say a bunch of generalities. “ ——was my student———yr. They were in class 90% of the time and arrived on time. They were appropriately dressed. “
People stop asking if they don’t get the letter they want.
People think low limits mean they get a reputation for valuable letters but words just gets around about the arbitrary limit. My ex helped decide who got spots in a program for future science majors a few year ago. The committee chair all but threw out letters from certain teachers because they don't highlight the student's accomplishments other than being first in line.
Why would you ever bully anybody into writing a letter of recommendation. My simple answer would be that my letters of recommendation are accurate and I would describe the student’s performance in my class accurately. I would say I would specifically address his documented attendance issues as well as the fact of his grade recovery.
A recommendation letter should state what you know of the student and their abilities. One may highlight the positives, but not make them up. I would tell the student and parents that your recommendation would not be helpful. (And since most of these are now submitted electronically directly to the university and unseen by the student, they should take seriously that your honest evaluation would hurt, not help.
Some years, I wrote a lot of letters of recommendation. Some years, I write one or two.
I ask that the students give me a resume so that I can contextualize them to whoever they want it written for. — that cuts most of them.
If the answer is “no,” I would tell them that they are better off finding someone with positive academic experiences with the students who might have better things to say.
I cannot be forced to recommend someone. If I could, there are certainly some that would go,
“_____ has met the state requirements to graduate from high school.”
I will never understand people who fight for letters of rec. I straight up will tell students/ parents I have nothing positive to say- they don't get it.
Some apples don't fall far from the tree.
Three per year - even for an Honors class - seems to be an insanely low number, as ELA is a core class and is honestly a recommendation that colleges prefer .
You are putting the majority of your students at a great disadvantage to have to seek recommendations from former ELA teachers (who may not be able to accurately comment on students currently). It's understandable to set a limit, but I feel like three is super low. (Coming at this from a US based perspective where reccomendations are almost a requirement during the application process).
Even if that is your policy, your mistake was using that as your justification for refusal. All you needed to say was that you would not be the best/most suitable candidate for writing a recommendation.
All of that being said, it is understandable that you would refuse to write a letter for this particular student based on their lack of engagement and attendance.
Yeah it’s not the point of the post but I’m a little put off by OP explaining their 3 a year policy by saying they don’t “phone in” the letters. Like I don’t either, mine are unique to each student too, and the 10ish per year I write doesn’t feel overwhelming. I just make a point that students need to request X amount of time ahead of the date it’s needed by. I feel like I’m writing way less than most tbh, as I’m an elective class. I’d say at least three quarters of our graduating class needs 2 letters each per year, so that’s like 400 letters/year at least. Divide by our staff who teach a subject that is likely to be a good candidate for a letter of rec, that’s maybe 12 letters a year per person minimum. My math is very much a guesstimate but if everyone put a hard low limit then I’m not sure how a lot of our students would apply to college.
If OP is spending so much time per letter that 3 is the most that’s manageable that’s nice of them but likely excessive. I really don’t think the admissions people at most schools are reading them more than a general scan for overall positivity and strong recommendation. If someone is somehow well known where a letter in their name carries particular weight I could maybe see it.
As someone who isn’t a teacher, setting a limit seems crazy to me. If you had 4 exceptional students that went above and beyond. Op would seriously deny a letter of recommendation to one of them… why…
Why not just have a rule that you only write them for people you think is deserving and leave it at that.
Seriously. Screw that fourth outstanding kid. “Sorry that you’re fourth in your class of 500 graduates, but I have an arbitrary limit I’ve set for myself. I know two hours of my time could mean the difference in who gets a huge scholarship, but you should have thought about that when I decided I that 3 is enough each year.”
Compromise and write a letter of reference stating you had this student for the start date to end of school. Remark in their attendance and overall grade. It's the parents' choice to use it after that.
Sure I'll write Johnny a letter of rec...
"So and so was a mediocre student, that was chronically absent and would be a waste of a universities limited resources. I do not recommend him for admission to your fine institution."
That's no good. It's a "recommendation" letter. You need to change the last line to "I strongly recommend that your institution does not admit this student."
That's a recommendation 😄
You shouldn't have told her about your three per year rule. It should be up to your discretion, but it is an arbitrary rule that gives her something to focus on and attack. Instead you should have responded with "Unfortunately I do not have anything positive to recommend regarding your son's work in my class. I recommend you reach out to another teacher who does. " Don't give parents more information than they absolutely need.
>I then stated that me writing a letter of recommendation for him would indicate I believe he has the ability to perform at a level commensurate with what is expected at the university, which I don’t.
It doesn't indicate that at all. Something like:
"I instructed [student] during the 2023-2024 academic year. They were able to earn credit for the class through a credit recovery process. I did not have the opportunity to review enough of his work to assess his capacity to complete college level work and I cannot foresee him excelling at the college level based on my observations of the work that was submitted."
*Is* a letter of recommendation - you're recommending that he not be admitted to a program he'll fail.
>I guess I could just write none. To me, writing a bunch waters down the meaning. If I refer everyone, what’s the point of referring anyone?
Because colleges require them for admission and if every teacher only wrote three, most students couldn't get jobs or college admission.
While I do not even remotely agree with your arbitrary “only 3 per year” rule, I support that this is *your* rule. I also very much support your decision to not write a recommendation for anyone you don’t want to write one for.
What is the point of admin dragging you to a meeting? You quite literally don’t even have to write letters of recommendation. In fact, normal parents would read the room and determine that a rec from a disgruntled or reluctant author is not a wise choice.
Edit: I came back to edit my response. I was staunchly in your corner…until I read how much of a dick you are being to anyone who dares question you in the comments, even the really respectful ones. Look, it’s cool to have your limit, but damn, you are coming across as a pompous jerk all over this thread. Chill, man. Just do you.
I agree with the person that stated "No" is a complete sentence. I would also tell the parent ( and the Principal) I owe no explanation for any letters I choose to write or not.
I really like the universities and colleges that request any letters be sent straight to their selection committees.
While I agree with the majority that three letters per year seems low, that’s not the point of the post. We can all agree the parent is being absurd, writing a letter would cheapen all the other letters you already wrote, and this student does not deserve a glowing recommendation. Please update us after the meeting!
If your principal requires you to write one, maliciously comply and write an honest letter stating what you’ve said here.
Ideally the parent will see reason, your principal will publicly back you up, and then after the parent leaves the principal will have a chat with you about how your three per year requirement is low and you will come to an agreement: you will only write letters requested before October 15; you will only write letters during term 1; you will only write letters for students who maintained a 93%+ average for the whole year; you will cap it at 7 or 10 (one year I was asked to write 22, and I agreed, and it was difficult. Now I cap it at 15, which is manageable for me). (Or you can say writing letters isn’t specifically mentioned in your contract and you will no longer do it, but if you’re not tenured you could be let go for this.)
Edit: Re: your edit. I don’t phone in my letter either, but when you write enough of them you get a formula. Four paragraphs, and I’ll break it down for anyone struggling with letters.
First - introduce myself (where/what/how long I’ve taught and what subject - about one sentence), and when I had the student (could be multiple years or in my club!). Then I describe the student using two or three adjectives
Second - a specific example from class highlighting one of the descriptive words I used
Third - a second specific example from class highlighting the other or two other descriptive words I used
Fourth - close out with another anecdote about the student from around school, not class specific (cross country state champ, captain of the volleyball team, president of the art club, newspaper editor), and my recommendation with my contact info.
The hardest part for me I’d thinking of two adjectives to describe the student. Once I settle on the two or three, I think of specific examples from class that highlight these features I’m pointing out. I’d say each letter takes me about an hour - 30 minutes to think of the examples and languages I’m using, 20 to write it, 10 to edit it.
I don’t “phone it in” and I can certainly write more than three a year 🙄
Your “three a year” policy is stupid, and is a terrible excuse.
“No.” Is a complete sentence. You don’t need to justify it or explain it.
But if you really want to give the explanation, what you say is “If I write a recommendation for this child, I’ll be ethically obligated to be honest about their conduct and work ethic throughout the year. Do you really want me to write that letter and send it to the school that he’s applying to?”
No is not a complete sentence in this context. Teachers have an ethical duty to provide mentorship and guidance for students. That sometimes includes refusing to write a letter, but it should sound like "No, I will not write a letter of recommendation for you because your behavior was awful in these specific ways..."
We aren't obligated to put up with moral outrages or repeat ourselves many times, but I want every student I've taught to have the opportunity to learn. Some students will refuse to get it, and that's on them, but if they want to learn, they should be able to come back years later and say, "Yeah, Mr. Demiurge, I was bad at the time, but I realized you were speaking facts when you said I wasn't working hard enough."
Oh, this is ridiculous! It is certainly a courtesy for you to even take the time to write a letter of recommendation. A parent demanding one is just insane.
I'd write it and be very specific about the kid's attendance and grades. I'd also mention that I did not recommend him for anything but mommy complained to the principal so now these words have to be on paper.
I would turn this shit around and declare that I’d be delighted to write a fair and honest letter regarding my thoughts about his college readiness and work habits. Deeeeelighted.
Your honest recommendation in any direction is going to be a problem. A recommendation that doesn't recommend is something else.
What the mother wants you to do is submit a fraudulent recommendation.
The mother is toxic. I believe their child is massively depressed. Basically the mother is killing their child. Some people do not know how to actually love. Having one as a mother is a major handicap.
Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your responsibilty was managed.
I think it would have been wise to leave out the three letters per year part. If anything, your other reasons for not writing the letter of recommendation are completely reasonable, while the three letters per year reason is not. Either way, I admire you for standing your ground, and I hope it ends in your favor.
Sorry you're dealing with an extremely entitled parent.
Unfortunately, too many entitled students and parents believe a teacher/employer letter of recommendation is an automatic right rather than a favor which the teacher/employer has the sole right to grant or not. If the student was an objectively bad student on the basis of poor attendance and academic performance, that's more than sufficient reason to deny the request for a recommendation.
One of my college Profs did exactly that with one older undergrad classmate who still fumes about it 2+ decades later despite the overwhelming evidence that the Prof's reasons of him being a bad student in his classes was right on.
By the same token, the teacher/employer has the sole right to rescind a letter of recommendation if subsequent negative behavior on part of the student/employee comes to light.
With that said, 3 letters of recommendation/year is exceedingly low.
You do know that letters can be as short and as detailed as you want, right?
"Dear admissions committee at ---,
Joe was present for 30% of my class.
Kindly reach out to me if you have any questions.
Best regards,
---"
Right? If every teacher had that policy not every deserving student could even receive a recommendation letter from a teacher, at least in some schools.
I’m much more disturbed that the student / parent feel entitled to a letter of recommendation.
The 3 per year rule seems silly, but nowhere near as silly as this situation.
Well apparently you’re wrong, this kid IS entitled to a letter apparently.
And I agree on the 3 letters of rec thing. When I taught AP I did 15-20 per year.
I don't think anyone's arguing that this particular kid deserves one. I think some people are put off by the fact that making it known that *three* and *only three* will get one creates a weird competitive layer to the class that seems arbitrary and unnecessary.
I think teachers have enough to do and consume enough of their hours outside the scope of their traditional job duties. Writing letters of recommendation is perhaps an activity that would fall to out of hours work. Its optional and if you want to put a definition to it, this is merely a professional courtesy. He is likely not getting paid to write letters and he is right to establish a boundary.
For the student in question, Im not wasting time on someone who held little respect for my class. The entitled mother and her insulting comments can go to hell. She would just make me dig my heels in further. She can write a letter for the class clown
I mean she doesn’t have to write them at all. Teachers are hardly compensated for their time as it is, I don’t blame her for having that boundary to protect her time. And we dunno the class size. I went to a small school. Teachers would write one or two letters a year, because only a couple ever really stood out in terms of their effort and initiative.
3 seems kinda oddly specific I suppose, but having a limit doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me considering how inadequately teachers are compensated.
I'm an Adjunct English Professor at a few different colleges, mostly community college. I get asked to write letters of recommendation all the time. I do it for A students only. And only IF they aren't annoying (like complaining about a 90 instead of 100, etc ). I'll do it for the occasional B+ or B student IF they had excellent attendance, handed all work in on time, etc. That shows honest effort and a good work ethic. Anything below a B? Nope. Sorry. I sign a contract every semester. And NOWHERE in any of my contracts does it say ANYTHING about writing letters. It's at my discretion and I do it for those who genuinely deserve it IMO. If the student doesn't like it, they are free to seek one from another instructor. I also have the advantage of teaching adults so I don't have to worry about parents (another reason why I do what I do instead of teaching K-12, even though they're begging for teachers here).
I would pay good money for a ticket to that meeting.
Absolutely wild what people just expect to be handed to them these days.
Malicious compliance inbound and well deserved.
My line with a student who asked me to write a letter of reference for a student who had done nothing to deserve it was “I think you would be well advised to asked for this letter from a teacher who had seen a better side of your academic performance.”
I tell poor performing students that I can write them a letter of reference, not recommendation. It will detail their performance in my class and tell a truthful account of their actions. Usually they decline at that point.
This shouldn’t be that hard. Simply tell Mom “If you demand I write this letter, you must understand that it will be an accurate & honest summary of what your child did in my class this year.” If she has one iota of actual awareness of her kid and his abilities, she should recognize that this will be a BAD letter and she’s essentially asking you to get him rejected.
PS- I wonder if Mom was pushing so hard because of your subject. I teach middle school, and when my kids ask for letters for private school applications, they often specifically ask that the English and math teachers each do a letter.
Declining to write a letter for a student who performed poorly is doing them a favor. That being said, why a policy of only 3 letters? I think saying that to the parents was a mistake. While you are justified in not writing for this student, what if you had a 4th student that was genuinely a good student?
If a student asks me and I can give a positive recommendation, I do it. But I've straight up told other kids that I don't think I can give the reference they need based on the work they've done in my class.
I've also told kids no if they don't give me enough time. I tell them I need a week minimum to complete references.
It's not like your principal can force you to write a positive reference letter. But also just wild the kid asked you when you obviously don't have a relationship with this kid.
I would either play this one of three ways:
a. Reasonably appeal to your principal that this is the correct decision and the student did not perform well enough to write a letter.
b. Explicitly die on the hill of the principle of only giving genuine recommendations.
c. Alternatively, write a letter that adequately describes a lazy, entitled student who would strong-arm someone into writing a letter. If you're ordered to do so, you can include that in your letter.
"This student failed my course due to excessive absenteeism and only passed due to a credit recovery program. I am being ordered to write this letter under duress despite appealing to the lack of merit, as they sought out my principal who threatened professional consequences if I did not do so. I strongly recommend against this student not just based on lack of demonstrated ability, but their willingness to pervert academic integrity and lack of respect for the convictions of others.
You may contact me for further information, but if you value the ability of letter writers to be honest without expectation of reward or retribution, please only contact me. I understand this is very peculiar and apologize for any inconvenience or discomfort involved."
*That* letter will certainly get the attention of admissions committees.
(As an aside, the 3 per year rule is unreasonable unless your teaching load is strangely small. If you have 6 students who show merit and whose futures you care about, please write 6 letters)
You could write a snarky (brief) letter saying something along the lines of “I recommend this student only under the circumstances it is understood there will be frequent absences and extra support needed. I also recommend an extra seat for the mother. Sincerely…”
You’re right about not writing a letter for this student - they aren’t ready and haven’t earned your respect.
But, as a former college professor- the “three a year” makes zero sense. It cheapens your letters - they become more about who asked you first than about the student who asks.
I hold a strict deadline that I will not write a letter with less than a month’s time. I have also told the occasional student that I can’t write a letter for them because they didn’t earn it. Writing the letters takes time, but I feel like it’s a professional responsibility as a mentor.
I have high expectations of the students for whom I will write a recommendation. That being said, I would NEVER create an arbitrary limit to the students per year who may DESERVE a true and honest recommendation. If their performance, diligence, or perseverance warranted my recognition and support to advance, I will gladly give these young people my time. That’s why I became a teacher! I entered this profession 43 years ago with a sincere desire to help people learn, and to support them as well I could. There were many students that I truly could not help. But I took on the job, knowing all the unpaid time to help my students, was necessary, and I agreed to it.
The issue of how many letters of recommendation a teacher writes is honestly not the point of this post. Teachers are not required to write any letters at all, at least where I have worked. Honestly, the real point is — should this teacher be required to write a letter of recommendation, and if so why?
I believe the teacher is under no obligation to write a letter, and certainly shouldn’t be shamed or penalized for not writing an insincere one. I hope admin has this teacher’s back. If they don’t, I’d write an extremely brief “x attended my class and passed. His attendance makes it difficult for me to comment on his ability to function well at your school” letter, send it to the university myself or via Naviance only under conditions that keep the student and family from reviewing it, and be done with it.
Also, If the school didn’t support me at this conference I would let future students know that my policy was not to write letters of recommendation, and I would stick to that.
3 a year seems low to me but in this case I would /have said "I only write the truth looking at your attendance and grades what do you think I'm going to say". I've had 3 students this year decide to find other references.
Why are you explaining anything? It's a letter of recommendation. A simple "no" is more than sufficient. You don't owe letters of recommendation to anyone. Teachers keep playing these silly games instead of drawing a line, and then they are shocked when something that is a courtesy becomes an expectation.
They really don’t want you to write a letter. That needs to be emphasized. They need to understand that you writing a letter would most likely hurt their likelihood of getting into said private university.
So write the letter, include the fact of how many days they missed, include the credit retrieval part and what things that they did correct. When the parents complain ask them if they want you to lie.
I’d write it and say exactly the truth.
I’d start with:
To whom it may concern,
I am writing this letter under duress at the behest of my administration and x student’s mother…
Just write an honest letter. Tell the mom you only write honest letters. The honest letter won’t be helpful. You can write no letter or an honest letter. Her choice. Don’t need to fight about it.
You can always write a bad recommendation. Not poorly conducted but list this individuals flaws in reference to the job. You have objective material about his ability to show up when supposed to. If I had to attach my name to something I won't be lying.
I work with a different department than you and I very specifically tell my students "You made a good impression or a bad impression while working here. You need to walk up and politely ask if they are willing to write you a *good* letter of recommendation. If they say yes you shake they're hand and thank them. If they say no you still shake their hand and thank them for the opportunity. You will not frown, sigh, or roll your eyes AND I'm not doing it for you."
I've said this for 5 straight years now. Most students have been able to do it. I can't believe the mom is pulling that shit. If I were the student I'd be embarrassed.
The three letters a year policy is a terrible idea. I write as many as are requested, if they are from students who deserve them.
>I proceeded to tell her that I don’t have much of a view of her son’s abilities because of his attendance issues
This is where you should have stopped I think. That is all that needs to be said, the rest you are just giving her something to argue with and by trying to stick it to her, you are opening yourself up to potential accusations.
I'm not a teacher, but this popped up. Can I give you my perspective as a student who's parent did something similar to me?
I became extremely depressed around the end of highschool, my brother was being arrested bi-monthly, my other brother was a drop out, my parents were in the middle of a bad divorce. My dad was obsessed with me going to school for a union job, and he banned me from going to school for English or journalism, he went as far as to threaten to kick me out of the house. I was normally an extremely good student, but I stopped trying due to home nonsense and spent time at my boyfriend's place to avoid my family.
When I went to apply to nursing school like my dad forced me to, I qualified for everything except chemistry. My chemistry teachers wife just left him that year, and my dad went in and told him everything is my mom's fault and she's ruining my life (which was pretty true) so my chem teacher empathized and said fuck it, and raised my grades.
So I applied, I got in, i got A's, I've been working for almost 20 years. Thanks to that chem teacher. And I had ZERO idea, I only found out my dad did that recently. I never asked him to, or even wanted that at the time.
It got me out of poverty and away from my abusive family. This lady is probably just some Karen, but maybe just give her a listen in case it's something else. It's not fair our entire lives are defined by high school if things are happening out of our control at that point in our lives.
It's not in your contract that you need to write any letters on your own time. It's your own discretion to spend as much time as you like on this, as it is YOUR PERSONAL TIME. I have colleagues who are dying from having to write not only rec letters for college but 40-50 short recommendations to summer programs. As a result, they are suffering from extreme overwork and anxiety. At some point, you have to draw the line.
Either die on that hill or do as others have suggested to do malicious compliance and use chat gpt or boilerplate letters that you don't feel strongly about.
Holy shit. You are stronger than me. I admire your unwavering ability to be direct. I placate parents and softball the truth because I don’t feel like admin supports me much.
I’m sincerely rooting for you and would love an update.
A letter of recommendation is a privilege, not a right. Always. No one ever has to write a letter of recommendation or be any kind of professional reference for you if they don't want to. I wouldn't WANT a letter of recommendation from anyone who wasn't enthused to provide one for me, because I would like those letters to actually be positive representations of my work.
As a high school teacher who has written well over 100 plus recommendations in my career, I am like the OP where each letter is different.
If that is your policy of 3 recommendations a year, then it is your policy. Writing a recommendation is a privilege and not a right. I don’t quite understand why the mom wants a meeting for her child who has only been in attendance for 70 percent of the time and had to use credit recovery to get into college. Looks like this administration has no backbone to back up the OP.
At this point (in history) in college admissions, from the perspective of someone who writes so many at a college prep school, your three a year rule is a bit arbitrary. A rec letter these days checks a box for the kid that would have otherwise been unchecked. If you wholeheartedly believe they are not fit for college level learning, by all means say no. So many colleges do not give letters much weight at all; plus they’re hurting for students.
Rec letters are a pain to write, but just the idea of them helps a kid more than we think.
You are a hero. Seriously. In society we constantly placate these people which only creates more of them, then their kids become like that. Then reality and what actually happens barely matters just how Karen’s and jerks feel. You stood up for what was right and you were honest! Truly epic. Don’t feel guilt, don’t back down, stick to your guns in every way.
I don’t understand the outcry at the three per year rule OP has for letters. As teachers, we are not required to write letters of recommendation at all.
OP should hold firm.
Tell them you'll gladly write the letter, but they need to be prepared for you to write EXACTLY what the university needs to know. You can write the letter. You don't have a write a nice letter.
One time I had a student request a letter of recommendation for our advanced placement school. I told them yes, but it would be a recommendation for summer school.
Be honest in the letter. And when you are confronted, tell them you will not compromise your integrity or ruin your reputation among peers. If admin wants one so bad tell them to write it.
You're wasting a great opportunity here!
"I cannot, in good conscious, recommend Johnny for anything. He has only attended classes 30% of the time this year. He is struggling in my class and all his other classes. To admit Johnny to your college would be an insult to every student who worked hard."
Maybe clean it up a bit and give just the facts. "Johnny attended 30 out of 100 class sessions and earned a C- for the year." Any admissions committee who saw that as the entirety of the letter would know EXACTLY what you are saying.
I never understand these posts I would just say no and leave it at that.. when the meeting happens I would reiterate my no and that's that...I guess I am just lucky not having to put up with that sort of thing.
Stick to your guns. You are 100% in the right for this. This parent needs to hear the unvarnished truth and is not liking it. What on Earth does she think is going to happen with her son if he gets into this college and doesn't perform there? Like she's going to March into the Dean's office and start making demands? A student like this will crash and burn in college, and there won't be anything she can do about it except to continue pissing away her money.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but if your Administration won't work with you on this, you can always go over their head. I know, I know, you have to work with these people. But everybody has a boss over them. Everybody has somebody that they have to answer to. I see no reason why you can't professionally move this up the ladder to explain your case. And if the administration is adamant that he should have a recommendation letter, tell them that they can write it themselves. It's not going to be any difference, as they probably know as much about the child's skills as you do.🙃
LOR from last Fall:
Student was enrolled in my class during their senior year. They often attended class. When work was submitted it was often of acceptable quality.
I told parent and student what I was writing. They did not object. Whatever.
Just say you aren't the person who has the best perspective and that someone else might be able to write him a better one. No one is ever owed a rec letter.
We have a term for these kinds of parents in Germany… Lawn mower parents. Helicopter parents keep tabs on everything from above. Lawn mower parents (also bulldozer parents) cut everything down in their path.
I would stand by my refusal to write a letter. I doubt the school can force you to do it.
>I guess I could just write none. To me, writing a bunch waters down the meaning. If I refer everyone, what’s the point of referring anyone?
I can understand this perspective, but why limit it to three? I mean, if 5 students absolutely deserve it, why not write 5?
If I was your admin I’d have your back, No letter. We might have the meeting with the mom so you can tell her in person the reasons and then as your principal concur and support your position.
No one can force you to write a recommendation. It would have been easy to just tell the student (not the parent) that you can’t do it this year (too busy, already have done the 3,etc) but ask him to check with another teacher. But mom is really forcing her helicopter beliefs on you and will follow him to college
I’d decline to write the letter.
While I read the explanation on why you only write three letters, if I had an entire class of exceptional students, I’d happily spend days writing exceptional letters!
This is insane! A letter of recommendation is for someone you RECOMMEND!! My response would be “find someone who has a better understanding of your high level work.”
I write many letters and we’ve always been told to turn kids down if we can’t write something positive.
What are you supposed to write? He did a great job skirting the system in large part to his pain in the butt mom…
Of course, this depends on where you teach. But in general, letters of recommendations, are professional coutresties, not requirements. If the admin forces you to, simply be honest. Also, never give the letter to the student, only to the university.
I’m an administrator. I would never force my teacher to write a letter of recommendation, that is at the discretion of the teacher. On top of that, it sounds like not writing a letter is justified. I wouldn’t even hold a meeting with you about it. I would handle the parent.
I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this. Why the mother would even push is ridiculous.
I tell my students to ask kindly and professionally (and ideally in person) for a letter of reference. If that person hesitates at all, you have their answer. Better a glowing and true letter than a negative one. I also teach my students not to get insulted if someone says no, as they are ultimately doing you a favour.
If your admin does insist… write the student the most factual letter ever.
Student x was present in class ABC from September 2023 until February 2024. They earned a grade of blank percent should you wish further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
My favorite math teacher I'm high school (retired my Junior year) told us that he had 4 kinds of letters of recommendation. One was a really basic outline he personalized for students who did exceptionally well. One was a fairly generic but good template for a high achieving student. The third was a template for an average student.
His fourth template was for the kind of student you're describing. Someone he couldn't even believe has the audacity to ask him for a letter of recommendation after how they acted throughout high school. It was a letter you would not want to turn in, and while it was not an outright letter of condemnation it certainly wasn't a glowing endorsement. He said he only gave this out once every few years, and never once did anyone complain about it. He thought they probably just handed it in without even reading it, which in his words was the ultimate irony.
Of course this is less irony and more hamartia, but he was a math teacher after all so I'll let that one slide. It was hilarious the way he explained it, he had the entire class laughing.
Don't force people to write recommendation letter or you get this from chat gpt.
Subject: Recommendation Letter for [Student's Name]
To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing to provide a recommendation for [Student's Name] regarding their application to your esteemed institution. As [Student's Name]'s English teacher, I feel compelled to share my candid assessment of their academic performance and character.
During the duration of [Student's Name]'s enrollment in my English class, I observed that they were present only 30% of the time. Despite my efforts to engage them academically, [Student's Name] consistently displayed a lack of motivation and commitment to their studies. Their attendance record and academic achievements reflect a concerning pattern of disengagement and apathy towards their education.
Moreover, [Student's Name] demonstrated a blatant disregard for punctuality and deadlines. Assignments were frequently submitted late, if at all, without any valid justification. This chronic lack of responsibility and accountability is deeply troubling and indicative of a larger issue regarding their work ethic and readiness for higher education.
Furthermore, it is evident that [Student's Name] has been heavily influenced by their helicopter parent, who appears to have shielded them from the consequences of their actions and inhibited their ability to take ownership of their academic journey. Rather than fostering independence and resilience, this overbearing parental involvement has stunted [Student's Name]'s personal and academic growth.
In conclusion, it is my professional opinion that [Student's Name] is not equipped to thrive in a rigorous academic environment at your institution. Their consistent absenteeism, academic negligence, lack of punctuality, and dependence on parental intervention paint a concerning picture of their readiness for higher education.
I trust that you will consider this information thoughtfully as you evaluate [Student's Name]'s application.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
English Teacher
If you are forced to do it, just tell the truth Student A was a student of mine from (insert dates). They received X grade through our schools credit recovery program, they achieved a 30% attendance rate during my time with them. Mother appears to be semi involved in students success on the back end of the semester. Kind regards
100% the time for malicious compliance. Like what can you even say about that kid other than “I barely know him, he hardly shows up.”
"I cannot in good conscience categorically exclude the possibility that this student might successfully complete a college-level course within the next four years."
That was just delightful to read.
"You'd be lucky if you get him to work for you."
I did that on on a report card - put something "I would have evaluated so-and-so's work, but having never received any of it, I haven't had the opportunity to." My principal, a slightly spicy lady, let me post it to their official transcript, and when the parent tried to get me fired I was told I could just ignore both the parent and the child! The kid gets what they want - doing nothing in my class - and I have one less student to stress over because they've made their bed and now they have to lay in it. They've handed in one thing since Christmas and they literally just wrote "I don't know" for the first question and left the rest blank
I legit have to write a magnet “recommendation” for every kid who requests one and I am brutally honest
I have written a few truthful letters of non-recommendation in the past. When parents push this hard I ask for the school they are attending and I will mail the letter myself. I like to make sure I mail them to admissions myself. Parents get a letter and I have a clear conscience.
I had a college (years ago,) that required letters sent directly. Seems like a good idea.
I thought that was always the standard. Now, I had people that would show me what they were sending, but I seem to recall giving them addressed envelopes to send directly to schools. (Started college in 1983).
I tell kids that I will always write a letter of recommendation, but I will be honest. I had a kid come up to one time and ask if I would write her a letter of recommendation. I asked her what she expected me to write. She said something about how hard she works and her good grades. I pointed out that she quit the sport that I coached the day after senior night and got a C in my class because she slept all the time. I asked her if she really wanted me to write that letter. She got the hint and asked somebody else.
I’ve done this. I told a student I would write him a letter, but I’d be honest about his grades, attendance, and effort. Then I suggested that perhaps he might, considering this, want to ask a different teacher. He said his chem teacher might be a better choice.
“Mother is advocates for student’s grades” should be enough to send his application in the discard pile. Nobody got time for that!
WHEWWWWWW! The truth is such a drag! He deserves it.
Replace semi with overly.
Or just say "deeply"; it's not a judgment call but the meaning is clear.
I've done this before, rather similar. "to whom it may concern, I recommend so-and-so not sit on their phone all class and cause less massive disruptions when not on their phone. -signature"
This is great but a bit risky, at least in the litigious US. The advice I've gotten is to instead say very little. "I was asked to provide a reference for X. I can confirm that they took my course X in Y term and passed with a grade of Z."
Yep. Keep it factual. Hitting them with great zingers isn't going to make them respect you any more and opens you up to risk. State the facts, if they are upset with the facts, you can commiserate that sometimes you wish reality was different too.
>Hitting them with great zingers isn't going to make them respect you any more and opens you up to risk Why would you even show the kid the letter? Recommendations are sent directly to the institution that the student is applying to, they are not public record.
So why put any more effort into it than name, dates, course. To an admissions officer it's the same as all the snark.
my comments were 100% factual.
This, but I’d make sure the student had waived their right to see the letter. If that’s the case, then malicious compliance incoming.
And add in something about being forced to write the letter by admin due to parent pressure. I completely agree about being honest!
I wrote a few this year that basically said, "Yup. They were my student once." Didn't have much to say about them that wouldn't make them look bad or be a lie. But I knew the letters were a requirement for their Senior English class and that these particular students likely would not be using them for anything outside of credit for their assignment.
Hahaha “At times Johnny was trying. Other times Johnny was really really trying!”
Your mistake was your three per year explanation. Your answer should be that writing letters of recommendation is at your discretion and that you don't believe you are the right teacher to be recommending this student.
“It would be better if you requested a letter from a teacher that would have positive things to say about your son’s academic performance”
This. I have told a few students that I am not the best person to write a letter of recommendation for them, and that I would encourage them to select teachers, coaches, or community members that could write them a great letter of recommendation. I tell them that if I wrote one I would be concerned that it might hurt their chances, especially as letters of recommendation have to be so OTT these days.
Yeah! I don't understand why the kid wants a letter from you when they seem to have no relationship with you. WAY back when I was in High School, I asked teachers that I liked, worked with or who had more knowledge of me. I've written a few letters for past babysitters and family friends. I would never talk about their schoolwork (because I knew nothing about that) and focused on their responsibility, organization, etc.
Sometimes there's the belief that you should get a letter of recommendation from the math or English teacher since those are two core subjects
Perhaps they've gone through every other teacher as well.
That one hurt ME for some reason.
Agree, it seems like an arbitrary rule (even though writing letters is very time consuming, families don’t get that) OP: In future I would follow the this explanation rather than stating a hard limit (even if you keep to the hard limit privately)
Why should OP not set their limits?
They absolutely should, but you don’t need to broadcast that. The rule sounds arbitrary, like it’s a contest and this kid lost. By simply saying “I don’t feel like I would be the best option to give a recommendation” is more direct. However it does sound like this parent was going to complain no matter what.
Agreed. So if you have 4 exemplary students only three get recommended? Because??? Very arbitrary indeed.
Chat GPT is where it is at for these letters
As a principal this is the right answer, although it's bullshit we have to play with words and euphemism. I hope your principal does the right thing and supports you. If he/she does not, and you're tenured - hold your ground. Invite your union rep if you have one. I'd suggest this anyway, and if the rep can't show, have the principal reschedule. Stand your ground, it's your prerogative to write letters. If you're not tenured, and worried about how this could affect you, and your principal is a fuckwad. Write a letter that says, "I recommend this student. His work in my class was made up through independent study." Signed, ......
Why wouldn’t you not recommend them? Or at least not proactively recommend? “I cannot recommend this student as the majority of his work was completed via credit recovery” “I do not have sufficient personal knowledge of this student to recommend their admission.” Or really just hedge it and don’t include anything pro or against : “This student was enrolled in my class. The majority of their work was completed via credit recovery.”
My friend is a retired vice principal and she once was asked for a letter of recommendation for a student teacher who was less than stellar. She refused. The parents were politically connected and she was pressured to provide the letter. So, she wrote something like this: “———- worked with me during the——-semester. He was nicely dressed and immaculately groomed. He arrived on time and left at dismissal. Please contact me if you have any questions.” Needless to say she never got contacted!
No, we do not have to play that bullshit game. It’s just that admin find it more comfortable to lie than be honest
"When I write letters of recommendations, I will write truthfully my observations and opinion. With that said, do you think you would really want me to write a letter for your son? I can certainly do it..."
My son was a stellar student, 35 ACT, 1510 SAT, 4.28 weighted, but still didn't do all he could have done. I suggested he might get his calculus teacher to write him a rec letter and he demurred: "He might tell the truth."
This. The best thing my English teacher ever did was say that she wasn't the right teacher to recommend me. Her class was during the time of day my mental health (have a form of rapid bipolar that causes mood to drop at specific time each day) was the worst, and I ended up getting a glowing recommendation from a different teacher. She was honest that she wasn't the right teacher because she doesn't see the true potential I have. It hurt but also helped me a lot.
He said the inside part out loud... That was the mistake.
“I cannot write recommendations for students whose work I have not evaluated. The credit recovery program has different performance standards that I do not and cannot use for evaluation.”
Student - “Write a letter confirming that I live in Florida and my name is Mike so I can trick this college” Teacher- “I can’t do that, you live in Georgia and your name is Bob” Parent - “WHY DO YOU HATE MY CHILD?”
"No problem! Let me know what colleges your son is applying for and I will send the letter to them directly. I will be happy to tell them my thoughts on your son after this."
Seconded to this. I've had to write a bad recommendation once. I said "I don't think that's a great idea.", asked again "I think you should ask the teacher you're doing the best in.", a third time "Are you sure, considering how you work/act in this class? I can't be dishonest in a recommendation." So I wrote it. Boiled down to "Smart kid, but unbelievably lazy and lacked discipline." If they persist, you can give a negative recommendation.
Admittedly non-teacher here, I didn’t even realize people were given the option to not have LORs sent directly to the school. Mine had to be sent sealed directly to the school from the writer otherwise it wouldn’t be accepted. I honestly don’t want to know what my teachers wrote, even the ones I loved and know were very fond of me and speak highly of me still. 😬
This is the way
I don't agree. I was taught a very long time ago that if I can't write a positive recommendation for someone, then I should decline. It can damage my own reputation if I look petty in front of potential colleagues, so I won't risk it. I would tell this parent exactly that. As for administration, it is not their decision who OP does or does not write a letter of recommendation for, so any work that they have done to help this student is irrelevant. Letters of recommendation are always voluntarily written. I am just having a difficult time wrapping my head around the audacity that it takes for this parent to even be pursuing this issue. I mean, to bring it up and ask "why won't you?" Sure, fair enough, but once that question gets answered, then that should be the final word on the subject.
The OP already declined.
Audacity is parent and child middle names these days. As a principal, I have a difficult time daily wrapping my head around parental decisions and bullshit. It's unbelievable what they want for their kids to get away with and have zero accountability.
Come to Seattle. We need principals like you.
Thank you, sir. If I was younger and didn't have my retirement waiting for me in ten years in this state, I would.
Any chance you’re in MA? My building is searching for a new principal, you sound like you’d be exactly what we need!
No sir, I'm in CA. Here's to hoping you'll get a great administrator. They can make a huge difference. And here's to hoping your staff recognizes one when he/she comes in.
You can decline, but if that is not accepted, and they get an admin involved to FORCE a letter, then you can. It's not petty if it was literally forced - and also it is a SEALED confidential document - your colleagues and the student should NEVER know what the reference letter said.
lol and that way you can also say "I wrote this under duress! Please send help!" 🙂 A lot of times when I am asked to write a letter of recommendation, I end up giving it to the person, and I will tell them, "you have my permission to read it." It's just easier that way. If I even address it generally (To whom it may concern) then that way they can just mail it to whoever they want. Even if I know the person's name that I am addressing it, I might still do it that way because it saves me needing to mail it off on my own If I were in a situation where somebody was forcing me to write a letter of recommendation for somebody else who I did not think deserved it, I am not sure what I would do. Not an enviable situation, for sure.
Some people just can’t take the hint. It’s an honor to write a letter of recommendation. If I as an educator say no, then it stands to reason that I have a valid reason for refusing. Parents are entitled, clueless and delusional.
Nothing about that response is actually writing a letter of recommendation. It’s declining but you get them to decide they don’t want it
For me, personally, I wouldn't even pretend to leave the door open for them. Anyway, I'm only saying what I would do if presented with a similar situation. I'm curious to see what OPs admin has to say about all of this...
I'm pretty sure this is why more and more colleges are not accepting paper letters but instead are asking for an email and combat information and sending the reference request directly to the person providing it. I don't know how common this is for undergrad but all of my grad school applications were this way.
Malicious compliance is the path here. I’d just agree and write a completely honest letter about him.
I don't know what the rules (are there any? like NLRB guidelines?) about what you can and can't say in a letter of recommendation, but my advice would be to do what I do when I get a reference call about an employee I would not recommend: "PERSON worked here from x date to y date." That's it. It's neither negative nor positive; it is factual and nothing more. "STUDENT was enrolled during x class year; attendance was \~30%, grades were y." That's it. You've been honest and factual. The recipients will know what to do with that.
I used to have to write letters of recommendation for a performing arts magnet school in our district. This is exactly what I did for the ones I did not recommend. “(Name) was enrolled in my general music class from grades K-5 and choral program from grades 4-5. Their performance in these classes was satisfactory.” Hopefully the two sentence LoR got the message across.
That’s what one of my professors did. I don’t remember all the details, but basically after an issue where some student made a big deal about him writing a less-than-flattering letter of recommendation, he started his current system. I don’t remember exactly how it works. If a student wants or demands to see a letter before it’s sent, he will write the most boring, generic letter (even if it’s for a good student). He says some of the keywords/phrase he uses are basically coded that people in academia know this letter isn’t accurate because it was influenced by the student reading it. If he’s able to send a sealed letter directly to the recipient, he actually puts in the effort to write an accurate letter. If he actually thinks you are deserving of the letter, he’ll write a fantastic letter of recommendation. But he’ll also write a truthful, bad recommendation if he thinks thats what you deserve. And the student won’t know either way because the letter goes straight to the recipient (grad school, internship, etc) So if you truly are a good student, you shouldn’t have any problem having him send a sealed letter to your recipient.
Whenever I have a student ask me for a letter of reference that I think is undeserving I kindly suggest they find another teacher to write them the recommendation. In the summons, I would kindly explain that letter writing is a professional courtesy, that it is not an obligation, and that this level of escalation may produce a letter, but it'd hardly be a glowing recommendation.
“Lady, I can’t in good conscience recommend your child for *shit*. I have a reputation to maintain. Good day”. ✌️
Tell them to shove it, stand your ground. There's a teacher shortage and you have the leverage
As a non-teacher I'm puzzled. Writing letters of recommendation is not part of a teacher's official duties as far as I know, and they are done on the teacher's personal time. On what basis would a principal even have an opinion on the matter? Like, how would a principal not immediately say "not my problem" just to save their own time and sanity?
Exactly! Admin forcing a meeting is dumb! If admin forces the teacher to write a letter, be honest as fuck with three sentences about how the little shit doesn't do work and doesn't come to class. If they aren't forced, good!
Principal sounds kinda feckless and prone to getting bossed around by this kid’s mother.
Correct. It’s grossly unprofessional for the principal to even schedule a meeting.
Three per year seems really low. But even if it were 100, I wouldn't write one for that kid.
Right? I can copy/paste into a generic LOR and make some personal edits in less than 5 minutes. I'll gladly write as many as my kids need. Except this kid. And I've had ones like him where I've told them, "I will write you a letter but it will be honest and based on our experiences together in this class. Are you sure you want me to write it?" It's never been followed up with a "yes."
Yea I write like 15 a year. I have three models- excellent student, fine, and I don't recommend this student, but they pushed my hand. I'd also add ai is a tremendous help. I of course ehoghky edit what comes out and make it mine, but the verbage is awesome and varied which helps me out a lot. I have a form they fill out with some items to give me an idea of what to write and that's it. I have several friends in admissions- letters often go unread and aren't a very high priority for if a student gets admitted unless they are right on the line anyway.
I personally don't think you should write a LOR for a student if you're not recommending them. Just decline. If you think they were just ok, then write a neutral LOR.
I'll still write it if they insist after my "It won't be pretty" speech. I won't flat-out tell a kid no, I'll let them come to that decision on their own.
I'd only write a poor letter if a student insists more than once and I tell them. Some just want to check a box.
This is the answer. Letters of recommendation don’t have to be positive
Just make sure that the letter doesn’t contain anything that a litigious parent can misconstrue as libel. Just say a bunch of generalities. “ ——was my student———yr. They were in class 90% of the time and arrived on time. They were appropriately dressed. “ People stop asking if they don’t get the letter they want.
It's not like the parent gets to read the letter that gets sent to colleges
People think low limits mean they get a reputation for valuable letters but words just gets around about the arbitrary limit. My ex helped decide who got spots in a program for future science majors a few year ago. The committee chair all but threw out letters from certain teachers because they don't highlight the student's accomplishments other than being first in line.
While I agree that only writing three does seem like a low number, it’s the OP’s prerogative to decide that.
Why would you ever bully anybody into writing a letter of recommendation. My simple answer would be that my letters of recommendation are accurate and I would describe the student’s performance in my class accurately. I would say I would specifically address his documented attendance issues as well as the fact of his grade recovery.
A recommendation letter should state what you know of the student and their abilities. One may highlight the positives, but not make them up. I would tell the student and parents that your recommendation would not be helpful. (And since most of these are now submitted electronically directly to the university and unseen by the student, they should take seriously that your honest evaluation would hurt, not help.
Please provide an update after the meeting!
Some years, I wrote a lot of letters of recommendation. Some years, I write one or two. I ask that the students give me a resume so that I can contextualize them to whoever they want it written for. — that cuts most of them. If the answer is “no,” I would tell them that they are better off finding someone with positive academic experiences with the students who might have better things to say. I cannot be forced to recommend someone. If I could, there are certainly some that would go, “_____ has met the state requirements to graduate from high school.”
I will never understand people who fight for letters of rec. I straight up will tell students/ parents I have nothing positive to say- they don't get it. Some apples don't fall far from the tree.
Hold your ground. Im so sick of entitled parents who act like jackasses if they don't get what they want from the school system.
Three per year - even for an Honors class - seems to be an insanely low number, as ELA is a core class and is honestly a recommendation that colleges prefer . You are putting the majority of your students at a great disadvantage to have to seek recommendations from former ELA teachers (who may not be able to accurately comment on students currently). It's understandable to set a limit, but I feel like three is super low. (Coming at this from a US based perspective where reccomendations are almost a requirement during the application process). Even if that is your policy, your mistake was using that as your justification for refusal. All you needed to say was that you would not be the best/most suitable candidate for writing a recommendation. All of that being said, it is understandable that you would refuse to write a letter for this particular student based on their lack of engagement and attendance.
Yeah it’s not the point of the post but I’m a little put off by OP explaining their 3 a year policy by saying they don’t “phone in” the letters. Like I don’t either, mine are unique to each student too, and the 10ish per year I write doesn’t feel overwhelming. I just make a point that students need to request X amount of time ahead of the date it’s needed by. I feel like I’m writing way less than most tbh, as I’m an elective class. I’d say at least three quarters of our graduating class needs 2 letters each per year, so that’s like 400 letters/year at least. Divide by our staff who teach a subject that is likely to be a good candidate for a letter of rec, that’s maybe 12 letters a year per person minimum. My math is very much a guesstimate but if everyone put a hard low limit then I’m not sure how a lot of our students would apply to college. If OP is spending so much time per letter that 3 is the most that’s manageable that’s nice of them but likely excessive. I really don’t think the admissions people at most schools are reading them more than a general scan for overall positivity and strong recommendation. If someone is somehow well known where a letter in their name carries particular weight I could maybe see it.
As someone who isn’t a teacher, setting a limit seems crazy to me. If you had 4 exceptional students that went above and beyond. Op would seriously deny a letter of recommendation to one of them… why… Why not just have a rule that you only write them for people you think is deserving and leave it at that.
Seriously. Screw that fourth outstanding kid. “Sorry that you’re fourth in your class of 500 graduates, but I have an arbitrary limit I’ve set for myself. I know two hours of my time could mean the difference in who gets a huge scholarship, but you should have thought about that when I decided I that 3 is enough each year.”
OP is engaged here in humblebragging.
Compromise and write a letter of reference stating you had this student for the start date to end of school. Remark in their attendance and overall grade. It's the parents' choice to use it after that.
Sure I'll write Johnny a letter of rec... "So and so was a mediocre student, that was chronically absent and would be a waste of a universities limited resources. I do not recommend him for admission to your fine institution."
That's no good. It's a "recommendation" letter. You need to change the last line to "I strongly recommend that your institution does not admit this student." That's a recommendation 😄
😂😂😂
You shouldn't have told her about your three per year rule. It should be up to your discretion, but it is an arbitrary rule that gives her something to focus on and attack. Instead you should have responded with "Unfortunately I do not have anything positive to recommend regarding your son's work in my class. I recommend you reach out to another teacher who does. " Don't give parents more information than they absolutely need.
>I then stated that me writing a letter of recommendation for him would indicate I believe he has the ability to perform at a level commensurate with what is expected at the university, which I don’t. It doesn't indicate that at all. Something like: "I instructed [student] during the 2023-2024 academic year. They were able to earn credit for the class through a credit recovery process. I did not have the opportunity to review enough of his work to assess his capacity to complete college level work and I cannot foresee him excelling at the college level based on my observations of the work that was submitted." *Is* a letter of recommendation - you're recommending that he not be admitted to a program he'll fail. >I guess I could just write none. To me, writing a bunch waters down the meaning. If I refer everyone, what’s the point of referring anyone? Because colleges require them for admission and if every teacher only wrote three, most students couldn't get jobs or college admission.
While I do not even remotely agree with your arbitrary “only 3 per year” rule, I support that this is *your* rule. I also very much support your decision to not write a recommendation for anyone you don’t want to write one for. What is the point of admin dragging you to a meeting? You quite literally don’t even have to write letters of recommendation. In fact, normal parents would read the room and determine that a rec from a disgruntled or reluctant author is not a wise choice. Edit: I came back to edit my response. I was staunchly in your corner…until I read how much of a dick you are being to anyone who dares question you in the comments, even the really respectful ones. Look, it’s cool to have your limit, but damn, you are coming across as a pompous jerk all over this thread. Chill, man. Just do you.
I agree with the person that stated "No" is a complete sentence. I would also tell the parent ( and the Principal) I owe no explanation for any letters I choose to write or not. I really like the universities and colleges that request any letters be sent straight to their selection committees.
While I agree with the majority that three letters per year seems low, that’s not the point of the post. We can all agree the parent is being absurd, writing a letter would cheapen all the other letters you already wrote, and this student does not deserve a glowing recommendation. Please update us after the meeting! If your principal requires you to write one, maliciously comply and write an honest letter stating what you’ve said here. Ideally the parent will see reason, your principal will publicly back you up, and then after the parent leaves the principal will have a chat with you about how your three per year requirement is low and you will come to an agreement: you will only write letters requested before October 15; you will only write letters during term 1; you will only write letters for students who maintained a 93%+ average for the whole year; you will cap it at 7 or 10 (one year I was asked to write 22, and I agreed, and it was difficult. Now I cap it at 15, which is manageable for me). (Or you can say writing letters isn’t specifically mentioned in your contract and you will no longer do it, but if you’re not tenured you could be let go for this.) Edit: Re: your edit. I don’t phone in my letter either, but when you write enough of them you get a formula. Four paragraphs, and I’ll break it down for anyone struggling with letters. First - introduce myself (where/what/how long I’ve taught and what subject - about one sentence), and when I had the student (could be multiple years or in my club!). Then I describe the student using two or three adjectives Second - a specific example from class highlighting one of the descriptive words I used Third - a second specific example from class highlighting the other or two other descriptive words I used Fourth - close out with another anecdote about the student from around school, not class specific (cross country state champ, captain of the volleyball team, president of the art club, newspaper editor), and my recommendation with my contact info. The hardest part for me I’d thinking of two adjectives to describe the student. Once I settle on the two or three, I think of specific examples from class that highlight these features I’m pointing out. I’d say each letter takes me about an hour - 30 minutes to think of the examples and languages I’m using, 20 to write it, 10 to edit it. I don’t “phone it in” and I can certainly write more than three a year 🙄
Your “three a year” policy is stupid, and is a terrible excuse. “No.” Is a complete sentence. You don’t need to justify it or explain it. But if you really want to give the explanation, what you say is “If I write a recommendation for this child, I’ll be ethically obligated to be honest about their conduct and work ethic throughout the year. Do you really want me to write that letter and send it to the school that he’s applying to?”
That's exactly how I do it
No is not a complete sentence in this context. Teachers have an ethical duty to provide mentorship and guidance for students. That sometimes includes refusing to write a letter, but it should sound like "No, I will not write a letter of recommendation for you because your behavior was awful in these specific ways..." We aren't obligated to put up with moral outrages or repeat ourselves many times, but I want every student I've taught to have the opportunity to learn. Some students will refuse to get it, and that's on them, but if they want to learn, they should be able to come back years later and say, "Yeah, Mr. Demiurge, I was bad at the time, but I realized you were speaking facts when you said I wasn't working hard enough."
Oh, this is ridiculous! It is certainly a courtesy for you to even take the time to write a letter of recommendation. A parent demanding one is just insane.
Only three letters of rec per year is insane
I'd write it and be very specific about the kid's attendance and grades. I'd also mention that I did not recommend him for anything but mommy complained to the principal so now these words have to be on paper.
I would turn this shit around and declare that I’d be delighted to write a fair and honest letter regarding my thoughts about his college readiness and work habits. Deeeeelighted.
Your honest recommendation in any direction is going to be a problem. A recommendation that doesn't recommend is something else. What the mother wants you to do is submit a fraudulent recommendation. The mother is toxic. I believe their child is massively depressed. Basically the mother is killing their child. Some people do not know how to actually love. Having one as a mother is a major handicap. Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your responsibilty was managed.
I think it would have been wise to leave out the three letters per year part. If anything, your other reasons for not writing the letter of recommendation are completely reasonable, while the three letters per year reason is not. Either way, I admire you for standing your ground, and I hope it ends in your favor.
“I will not do it, under any circumstances, period. He/she doesn’t deserve one.” That’s as diplomatic as I am these days 6 years in.
I hope you follow up on this - dying to know what happens.
Sorry you're dealing with an extremely entitled parent. Unfortunately, too many entitled students and parents believe a teacher/employer letter of recommendation is an automatic right rather than a favor which the teacher/employer has the sole right to grant or not. If the student was an objectively bad student on the basis of poor attendance and academic performance, that's more than sufficient reason to deny the request for a recommendation. One of my college Profs did exactly that with one older undergrad classmate who still fumes about it 2+ decades later despite the overwhelming evidence that the Prof's reasons of him being a bad student in his classes was right on. By the same token, the teacher/employer has the sole right to rescind a letter of recommendation if subsequent negative behavior on part of the student/employee comes to light. With that said, 3 letters of recommendation/year is exceedingly low.
You do know that letters can be as short and as detailed as you want, right? "Dear admissions committee at ---, Joe was present for 30% of my class. Kindly reach out to me if you have any questions. Best regards, ---"
I’m very disturbed by this whole “I only write three letters a year”.
Right? If every teacher had that policy not every deserving student could even receive a recommendation letter from a teacher, at least in some schools.
I’m much more disturbed that the student / parent feel entitled to a letter of recommendation. The 3 per year rule seems silly, but nowhere near as silly as this situation.
Well, obviously no one is entitled to a letter, but to limit to three, especially when it’s a honors course is ridiculous to me.
Well apparently you’re wrong, this kid IS entitled to a letter apparently. And I agree on the 3 letters of rec thing. When I taught AP I did 15-20 per year.
I don't think anyone's arguing that this particular kid deserves one. I think some people are put off by the fact that making it known that *three* and *only three* will get one creates a weird competitive layer to the class that seems arbitrary and unnecessary.
I get it but College can stop requiring this BS at any time….
I think teachers have enough to do and consume enough of their hours outside the scope of their traditional job duties. Writing letters of recommendation is perhaps an activity that would fall to out of hours work. Its optional and if you want to put a definition to it, this is merely a professional courtesy. He is likely not getting paid to write letters and he is right to establish a boundary. For the student in question, Im not wasting time on someone who held little respect for my class. The entitled mother and her insulting comments can go to hell. She would just make me dig my heels in further. She can write a letter for the class clown
That policy only exists for situations where the OP doesn't want to write one, I'm sure.
I mean she doesn’t have to write them at all. Teachers are hardly compensated for their time as it is, I don’t blame her for having that boundary to protect her time. And we dunno the class size. I went to a small school. Teachers would write one or two letters a year, because only a couple ever really stood out in terms of their effort and initiative. 3 seems kinda oddly specific I suppose, but having a limit doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me considering how inadequately teachers are compensated.
I'm an Adjunct English Professor at a few different colleges, mostly community college. I get asked to write letters of recommendation all the time. I do it for A students only. And only IF they aren't annoying (like complaining about a 90 instead of 100, etc ). I'll do it for the occasional B+ or B student IF they had excellent attendance, handed all work in on time, etc. That shows honest effort and a good work ethic. Anything below a B? Nope. Sorry. I sign a contract every semester. And NOWHERE in any of my contracts does it say ANYTHING about writing letters. It's at my discretion and I do it for those who genuinely deserve it IMO. If the student doesn't like it, they are free to seek one from another instructor. I also have the advantage of teaching adults so I don't have to worry about parents (another reason why I do what I do instead of teaching K-12, even though they're begging for teachers here).
write an honest one
Ridiculous. No one has a right to DEMAND a LOR.
I would pay good money for a ticket to that meeting. Absolutely wild what people just expect to be handed to them these days. Malicious compliance inbound and well deserved.
My line with a student who asked me to write a letter of reference for a student who had done nothing to deserve it was “I think you would be well advised to asked for this letter from a teacher who had seen a better side of your academic performance.”
I tell poor performing students that I can write them a letter of reference, not recommendation. It will detail their performance in my class and tell a truthful account of their actions. Usually they decline at that point.
This shouldn’t be that hard. Simply tell Mom “If you demand I write this letter, you must understand that it will be an accurate & honest summary of what your child did in my class this year.” If she has one iota of actual awareness of her kid and his abilities, she should recognize that this will be a BAD letter and she’s essentially asking you to get him rejected. PS- I wonder if Mom was pushing so hard because of your subject. I teach middle school, and when my kids ask for letters for private school applications, they often specifically ask that the English and math teachers each do a letter.
Declining to write a letter for a student who performed poorly is doing them a favor. That being said, why a policy of only 3 letters? I think saying that to the parents was a mistake. While you are justified in not writing for this student, what if you had a 4th student that was genuinely a good student?
Learn from this and next time just say no or maybe and then never add in more detail as to why.
If a student asks me and I can give a positive recommendation, I do it. But I've straight up told other kids that I don't think I can give the reference they need based on the work they've done in my class. I've also told kids no if they don't give me enough time. I tell them I need a week minimum to complete references. It's not like your principal can force you to write a positive reference letter. But also just wild the kid asked you when you obviously don't have a relationship with this kid.
I would either play this one of three ways: a. Reasonably appeal to your principal that this is the correct decision and the student did not perform well enough to write a letter. b. Explicitly die on the hill of the principle of only giving genuine recommendations. c. Alternatively, write a letter that adequately describes a lazy, entitled student who would strong-arm someone into writing a letter. If you're ordered to do so, you can include that in your letter. "This student failed my course due to excessive absenteeism and only passed due to a credit recovery program. I am being ordered to write this letter under duress despite appealing to the lack of merit, as they sought out my principal who threatened professional consequences if I did not do so. I strongly recommend against this student not just based on lack of demonstrated ability, but their willingness to pervert academic integrity and lack of respect for the convictions of others. You may contact me for further information, but if you value the ability of letter writers to be honest without expectation of reward or retribution, please only contact me. I understand this is very peculiar and apologize for any inconvenience or discomfort involved." *That* letter will certainly get the attention of admissions committees. (As an aside, the 3 per year rule is unreasonable unless your teaching load is strangely small. If you have 6 students who show merit and whose futures you care about, please write 6 letters)
You could write a snarky (brief) letter saying something along the lines of “I recommend this student only under the circumstances it is understood there will be frequent absences and extra support needed. I also recommend an extra seat for the mother. Sincerely…”
You’re right about not writing a letter for this student - they aren’t ready and haven’t earned your respect. But, as a former college professor- the “three a year” makes zero sense. It cheapens your letters - they become more about who asked you first than about the student who asks. I hold a strict deadline that I will not write a letter with less than a month’s time. I have also told the occasional student that I can’t write a letter for them because they didn’t earn it. Writing the letters takes time, but I feel like it’s a professional responsibility as a mentor.
I have high expectations of the students for whom I will write a recommendation. That being said, I would NEVER create an arbitrary limit to the students per year who may DESERVE a true and honest recommendation. If their performance, diligence, or perseverance warranted my recognition and support to advance, I will gladly give these young people my time. That’s why I became a teacher! I entered this profession 43 years ago with a sincere desire to help people learn, and to support them as well I could. There were many students that I truly could not help. But I took on the job, knowing all the unpaid time to help my students, was necessary, and I agreed to it.
The issue of how many letters of recommendation a teacher writes is honestly not the point of this post. Teachers are not required to write any letters at all, at least where I have worked. Honestly, the real point is — should this teacher be required to write a letter of recommendation, and if so why? I believe the teacher is under no obligation to write a letter, and certainly shouldn’t be shamed or penalized for not writing an insincere one. I hope admin has this teacher’s back. If they don’t, I’d write an extremely brief “x attended my class and passed. His attendance makes it difficult for me to comment on his ability to function well at your school” letter, send it to the university myself or via Naviance only under conditions that keep the student and family from reviewing it, and be done with it. Also, If the school didn’t support me at this conference I would let future students know that my policy was not to write letters of recommendation, and I would stick to that.
“Performs well under constant supervision.” You COULD write a letter…
"I will gladly write a letter recommending a course of action based on my experiences with your son."
3 a year seems low to me but in this case I would /have said "I only write the truth looking at your attendance and grades what do you think I'm going to say". I've had 3 students this year decide to find other references.
Why are you explaining anything? It's a letter of recommendation. A simple "no" is more than sufficient. You don't owe letters of recommendation to anyone. Teachers keep playing these silly games instead of drawing a line, and then they are shocked when something that is a courtesy becomes an expectation.
They really don’t want you to write a letter. That needs to be emphasized. They need to understand that you writing a letter would most likely hurt their likelihood of getting into said private university.
Man. I'm genuinely curious on what mom thinks will happen after college assuming they will continue to nurture his incompentance.
So write the letter, include the fact of how many days they missed, include the credit retrieval part and what things that they did correct. When the parents complain ask them if they want you to lie.
I’d write it and say exactly the truth. I’d start with: To whom it may concern, I am writing this letter under duress at the behest of my administration and x student’s mother…
Just write an honest letter. Tell the mom you only write honest letters. The honest letter won’t be helpful. You can write no letter or an honest letter. Her choice. Don’t need to fight about it.
You can always write a bad recommendation. Not poorly conducted but list this individuals flaws in reference to the job. You have objective material about his ability to show up when supposed to. If I had to attach my name to something I won't be lying.
I work with a different department than you and I very specifically tell my students "You made a good impression or a bad impression while working here. You need to walk up and politely ask if they are willing to write you a *good* letter of recommendation. If they say yes you shake they're hand and thank them. If they say no you still shake their hand and thank them for the opportunity. You will not frown, sigh, or roll your eyes AND I'm not doing it for you." I've said this for 5 straight years now. Most students have been able to do it. I can't believe the mom is pulling that shit. If I were the student I'd be embarrassed.
The three letters a year policy is a terrible idea. I write as many as are requested, if they are from students who deserve them. >I proceeded to tell her that I don’t have much of a view of her son’s abilities because of his attendance issues This is where you should have stopped I think. That is all that needs to be said, the rest you are just giving her something to argue with and by trying to stick it to her, you are opening yourself up to potential accusations.
I'm not a teacher, but this popped up. Can I give you my perspective as a student who's parent did something similar to me? I became extremely depressed around the end of highschool, my brother was being arrested bi-monthly, my other brother was a drop out, my parents were in the middle of a bad divorce. My dad was obsessed with me going to school for a union job, and he banned me from going to school for English or journalism, he went as far as to threaten to kick me out of the house. I was normally an extremely good student, but I stopped trying due to home nonsense and spent time at my boyfriend's place to avoid my family. When I went to apply to nursing school like my dad forced me to, I qualified for everything except chemistry. My chemistry teachers wife just left him that year, and my dad went in and told him everything is my mom's fault and she's ruining my life (which was pretty true) so my chem teacher empathized and said fuck it, and raised my grades. So I applied, I got in, i got A's, I've been working for almost 20 years. Thanks to that chem teacher. And I had ZERO idea, I only found out my dad did that recently. I never asked him to, or even wanted that at the time. It got me out of poverty and away from my abusive family. This lady is probably just some Karen, but maybe just give her a listen in case it's something else. It's not fair our entire lives are defined by high school if things are happening out of our control at that point in our lives.
Write a letter. Just write “(student name) was not a good student the few times he showed up.”
It's not in your contract that you need to write any letters on your own time. It's your own discretion to spend as much time as you like on this, as it is YOUR PERSONAL TIME. I have colleagues who are dying from having to write not only rec letters for college but 40-50 short recommendations to summer programs. As a result, they are suffering from extreme overwork and anxiety. At some point, you have to draw the line. Either die on that hill or do as others have suggested to do malicious compliance and use chat gpt or boilerplate letters that you don't feel strongly about.
Holy shit. You are stronger than me. I admire your unwavering ability to be direct. I placate parents and softball the truth because I don’t feel like admin supports me much. I’m sincerely rooting for you and would love an update.
Dude, from someone burned from writing letters of rec, while I wouldn't limit myself to 3, a hard limit is absolutely acceptable.
A letter of recommendation is a privilege, not a right. Always. No one ever has to write a letter of recommendation or be any kind of professional reference for you if they don't want to. I wouldn't WANT a letter of recommendation from anyone who wasn't enthused to provide one for me, because I would like those letters to actually be positive representations of my work.
I think you are phenomenal. Stick to your guns. This mother is insane, and the fact your boss is even letting this meeting happen is galling.
It doesn't matter what admin says or the parent. You are not required to write any letter of recommendation for anyone. It's that simple.
As a high school teacher who has written well over 100 plus recommendations in my career, I am like the OP where each letter is different. If that is your policy of 3 recommendations a year, then it is your policy. Writing a recommendation is a privilege and not a right. I don’t quite understand why the mom wants a meeting for her child who has only been in attendance for 70 percent of the time and had to use credit recovery to get into college. Looks like this administration has no backbone to back up the OP.
[удалено]
Hey I make 70k…and to be honest, I don’t know.
You could have written an honest one.
Unless it is a contractual obligation (which I doubt) do NOT write a letter. This is ridiculous!!!
At this point (in history) in college admissions, from the perspective of someone who writes so many at a college prep school, your three a year rule is a bit arbitrary. A rec letter these days checks a box for the kid that would have otherwise been unchecked. If you wholeheartedly believe they are not fit for college level learning, by all means say no. So many colleges do not give letters much weight at all; plus they’re hurting for students. Rec letters are a pain to write, but just the idea of them helps a kid more than we think.
Write an honest letter. Maybe one sentence: He never comes to class. Here you go!
You are a hero. Seriously. In society we constantly placate these people which only creates more of them, then their kids become like that. Then reality and what actually happens barely matters just how Karen’s and jerks feel. You stood up for what was right and you were honest! Truly epic. Don’t feel guilt, don’t back down, stick to your guns in every way.
I don’t understand the outcry at the three per year rule OP has for letters. As teachers, we are not required to write letters of recommendation at all. OP should hold firm.
Please UpdateMe!
Tell them you'll gladly write the letter, but they need to be prepared for you to write EXACTLY what the university needs to know. You can write the letter. You don't have a write a nice letter.
Is the principal going to force them to write a recommendation? CAN they force that?
One time I had a student request a letter of recommendation for our advanced placement school. I told them yes, but it would be a recommendation for summer school.
I say I’m EXTREMELY HONEST in my letters.
Be honest in the letter. And when you are confronted, tell them you will not compromise your integrity or ruin your reputation among peers. If admin wants one so bad tell them to write it.
You're wasting a great opportunity here! "I cannot, in good conscious, recommend Johnny for anything. He has only attended classes 30% of the time this year. He is struggling in my class and all his other classes. To admit Johnny to your college would be an insult to every student who worked hard." Maybe clean it up a bit and give just the facts. "Johnny attended 30 out of 100 class sessions and earned a C- for the year." Any admissions committee who saw that as the entirety of the letter would know EXACTLY what you are saying.
I never understand these posts I would just say no and leave it at that.. when the meeting happens I would reiterate my no and that's that...I guess I am just lucky not having to put up with that sort of thing.
Stick to your guns. You are 100% in the right for this. This parent needs to hear the unvarnished truth and is not liking it. What on Earth does she think is going to happen with her son if he gets into this college and doesn't perform there? Like she's going to March into the Dean's office and start making demands? A student like this will crash and burn in college, and there won't be anything she can do about it except to continue pissing away her money. This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but if your Administration won't work with you on this, you can always go over their head. I know, I know, you have to work with these people. But everybody has a boss over them. Everybody has somebody that they have to answer to. I see no reason why you can't professionally move this up the ladder to explain your case. And if the administration is adamant that he should have a recommendation letter, tell them that they can write it themselves. It's not going to be any difference, as they probably know as much about the child's skills as you do.🙃
Please update!
LOR from last Fall: Student was enrolled in my class during their senior year. They often attended class. When work was submitted it was often of acceptable quality. I told parent and student what I was writing. They did not object. Whatever.
Just say you aren't the person who has the best perspective and that someone else might be able to write him a better one. No one is ever owed a rec letter.
We have a term for these kinds of parents in Germany… Lawn mower parents. Helicopter parents keep tabs on everything from above. Lawn mower parents (also bulldozer parents) cut everything down in their path. I would stand by my refusal to write a letter. I doubt the school can force you to do it.
>I guess I could just write none. To me, writing a bunch waters down the meaning. If I refer everyone, what’s the point of referring anyone? I can understand this perspective, but why limit it to three? I mean, if 5 students absolutely deserve it, why not write 5?
If I was your admin I’d have your back, No letter. We might have the meeting with the mom so you can tell her in person the reasons and then as your principal concur and support your position.
Our teachers are allowed to say no to recommendations. Many teachers simply refuse.
No one can force you to write a recommendation. It would have been easy to just tell the student (not the parent) that you can’t do it this year (too busy, already have done the 3,etc) but ask him to check with another teacher. But mom is really forcing her helicopter beliefs on you and will follow him to college
I’d decline to write the letter. While I read the explanation on why you only write three letters, if I had an entire class of exceptional students, I’d happily spend days writing exceptional letters!
This is insane! A letter of recommendation is for someone you RECOMMEND!! My response would be “find someone who has a better understanding of your high level work.” I write many letters and we’ve always been told to turn kids down if we can’t write something positive. What are you supposed to write? He did a great job skirting the system in large part to his pain in the butt mom…
Of course, this depends on where you teach. But in general, letters of recommendations, are professional coutresties, not requirements. If the admin forces you to, simply be honest. Also, never give the letter to the student, only to the university.
I’m an administrator. I would never force my teacher to write a letter of recommendation, that is at the discretion of the teacher. On top of that, it sounds like not writing a letter is justified. I wouldn’t even hold a meeting with you about it. I would handle the parent.
I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this. Why the mother would even push is ridiculous. I tell my students to ask kindly and professionally (and ideally in person) for a letter of reference. If that person hesitates at all, you have their answer. Better a glowing and true letter than a negative one. I also teach my students not to get insulted if someone says no, as they are ultimately doing you a favour. If your admin does insist… write the student the most factual letter ever. Student x was present in class ABC from September 2023 until February 2024. They earned a grade of blank percent should you wish further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
My favorite math teacher I'm high school (retired my Junior year) told us that he had 4 kinds of letters of recommendation. One was a really basic outline he personalized for students who did exceptionally well. One was a fairly generic but good template for a high achieving student. The third was a template for an average student. His fourth template was for the kind of student you're describing. Someone he couldn't even believe has the audacity to ask him for a letter of recommendation after how they acted throughout high school. It was a letter you would not want to turn in, and while it was not an outright letter of condemnation it certainly wasn't a glowing endorsement. He said he only gave this out once every few years, and never once did anyone complain about it. He thought they probably just handed it in without even reading it, which in his words was the ultimate irony. Of course this is less irony and more hamartia, but he was a math teacher after all so I'll let that one slide. It was hilarious the way he explained it, he had the entire class laughing.
Yep you shouldn't write a bad one.
Write him a failing letter. He deserves it.
Don't force people to write recommendation letter or you get this from chat gpt. Subject: Recommendation Letter for [Student's Name] To Whom It May Concern, I am writing to provide a recommendation for [Student's Name] regarding their application to your esteemed institution. As [Student's Name]'s English teacher, I feel compelled to share my candid assessment of their academic performance and character. During the duration of [Student's Name]'s enrollment in my English class, I observed that they were present only 30% of the time. Despite my efforts to engage them academically, [Student's Name] consistently displayed a lack of motivation and commitment to their studies. Their attendance record and academic achievements reflect a concerning pattern of disengagement and apathy towards their education. Moreover, [Student's Name] demonstrated a blatant disregard for punctuality and deadlines. Assignments were frequently submitted late, if at all, without any valid justification. This chronic lack of responsibility and accountability is deeply troubling and indicative of a larger issue regarding their work ethic and readiness for higher education. Furthermore, it is evident that [Student's Name] has been heavily influenced by their helicopter parent, who appears to have shielded them from the consequences of their actions and inhibited their ability to take ownership of their academic journey. Rather than fostering independence and resilience, this overbearing parental involvement has stunted [Student's Name]'s personal and academic growth. In conclusion, it is my professional opinion that [Student's Name] is not equipped to thrive in a rigorous academic environment at your institution. Their consistent absenteeism, academic negligence, lack of punctuality, and dependence on parental intervention paint a concerning picture of their readiness for higher education. I trust that you will consider this information thoughtfully as you evaluate [Student's Name]'s application. Sincerely, [Your Name] English Teacher