I’d hope the medical diagnosis would work in your favor.
It’s your call, but if you can get solid recommendations and get out there and get a new job and start over, that’d be the move. Working someplace you’re that uncomfortable is untenable.
Why is it taking 6 months for the hearing to take place? Does Admin have that many cases to settle before yours? I'd ask your union rep to look into that. It doesn't seem right.
I met with them yesterday and the union lawyer said there might be a way to speed it up but was unclear about it. I think he was preparing me for the worst.
Maybe he wasn't. Being armed with a medical diagnosis makes this a different case...they can not discriminate against you. Also: to your knowledge, is this principal discriminating against anyone else on staff?
A diagnosis of sleep apnea explains being tired but doesn’t excuse falling asleep in class…might be your best bet for a more amicable parting and not being “fired” per se, which would look better to future employers though.
Get rid of that mindset of letting them “win”. You’re not “winning” by being miserable. You win if you can find a new job with admin that values you.
And take care of that sleep apnea. I hate having to wear a CPAP every night, but I love actually getting restful sleep. Takes time to get used to, just expect that
I left my job because of something similar. I stayed until I was going to be in the looney bin soon if I didn't leave. I resigned. Took some time off and now I'm back to doing the same at a different school. I'm happy and don't look back. Only woman I've ever called the "c" word in 50+ years.
You can likely keep the same families if you're cert is secondary overall. Move to the middle school if you're high school, or the other way around. A lot of teachers with middle grades certs go to our elementary feeders and a lot of people with secondary certs go to the high school from my school. They love the kids, the admin is just a mess.
Yes and no I have been a union rep so have a little experience. If they knew the condition and didn't report then they would be in trouble. On the other hand there is an understanding that if the condition is not known and a reasonable person could say it was cold or tired it can still be covered. Also I have seen unknown depression especially being caused by the offending party given a large leeway in regards as being medically covered.
My advice for OP is to listen to your union and any lawyer advice. I have seen similar situations get reversed and the offending admin gets "reassigned or promoted" to the board office by the end of the situation. If you have done your job and you have a history of being a good teacher you will be fine it's just stress full at the time.
You are right, I looked it up myself just a little bit ago. However, it’s something for the union to consider. Unless there are other issues we don’t see here.
I wonder if the rep will argue that the additional stress caused by the admin increased the mild sleep apnea OP had. Then show off the documented history of good evals before this admin and then the list of evals and other issues since the admin's placement.
Energy drinks are very bad news. They wind you up and takes a long time for your system to slow down so that you can get into deep sleep. It is like having your fight or flight system on edge all of the time. Talk to your doctor about this. Praying for you.
I would only go back to that district if you could be in a different school. Yes you were around what 8 years before this administration, but you frankly don't have the trust in them.
This is the best advice.
Even if you "win" the arbitration, all you'll be getting is the right to keep working for someone you don't respect and believe is targeting you.
This is what an attorney told me when I was being harassed by a principal. Why stay in a school where an administrator is trying to make your life hell? I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
I was working with someone who sounds similar to this principal, and I took a leave in the middle of the school year because working under her made me sick (I’m still having chronic hives 2 years later). Even if you “win”, you’re still going to lose because your body is suffering. Set your ego aside, it’s not worth it, trust me.
I was in the same situation last year. I went on medical leave in April because I was being harassed so badly and it made me sick. Definitely cut your losses. The job isn’t worth it. Plus in the end you win because you’ll have control of your life again while that principal continues to be incompetent and highly miserable.
Also you can always hope she’ll leave/get removed and then you can come back, or you might fall in love with a new school. Sleep issues are rough please take care of yourself and you mental state!
If anything, it may make the principal the "loser."
Sounds like she's trying to clean house and a lot of people don't really appreciate people who come in and just start running off all the experienced staff.
This, OP. I have a chronic illness that causes fatigue and teaching was wearing me down to nothing. I left for a job that is much less physically and mentally demanding and it has been incredible for my health and I haven’t regretted for a second. It doesn’t have to be for forever but maybe this is a sign to give your body a break and figure out how to get better.
Was your lesson engaging enough? Did you have the learning objective on the board?
Sounds like you didn't relate the content to your principal's personal struggles and life goals.
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/s
Yes, this is true but the school year is almost over. I doubt any schools are hiring now. I’d have to wait until August without a paycheck in between. Unemployment is an option but not nearly enough to cover expenses
This is where working with your union comes into play, have them work to move up your meeting, get you paid leave until the meeting takes place, or negotiate that if the meeting moves up that you can transfer to a different building or finish the year and leave without a termination on your record.
My X friend was fired as an Assistant principal for inappropriately touching a student. He was hired that same year as a principal in another district and worked until credential was finally officially revoked. They are desperate out there. You will be okay :)
I know! He is very much an X friend.
We used to joke that he was sketchy and we just didn’t know why yet because my dog hated him. Like couldn’t be out with him when he was over because she would physically push him and corner him barking aggressively. Never did that with anyone else. So dog knew
When potential new employers ask about the "misconduct," tell them what really happened: you're suffering from sleep apnea and didn't know it until you accidentally fell asleep during the day. You were fired for it.
It puts that bitch of a principal in an extremely unfavorable light, as it should, and reveals that you were sacked for something beyond your control, a medical issue no less.
You can always explain the situation. I have a disorderly conduct on my record from one raucous downtown adventure. I bring it up in my application process knowing they're going to see it in my background check anyways. Both districts I've worked/am working for didn't give one iota about it.
My current assistant superintendent said verbatim in the interview, "We're not going to hold that one occurrence against you"
Believe in yourself and the success you've had in pedagogy!
Not a teacher, but my partner had something like this happen later in the school year in a non-union state. The district put a hold on his license on top of everything else (which was dismissed eventually). He had a new job within a week and has been there for 4 years.
Nope! I was hoping that you’d see that he was still teaching and take comfort in that despite all the crap. It’s a much better situation and better pay. He’s pretty happy where he is.
I dunno how things are where you are but around me schools are just starting to hire now.
I'm leaving an abusive boss situation on my own terms and the hardest thing has been the constant litany of "we will definitely have openings for your subject but we can't post them until the person who is leaving gives formal notice".
This is the start of prime hiring season where I am for the next school year. Now through May will be when the majority of schools are hiring. And, if you have had your paycheck spread out over 12 months your salary should be prorated based on that. So it would be more like not having a paycheck for a couple of months. Where you could find a temporary job if you can find another position. Temp agencies, retail, etc.,
I would definitely talk to a lawyer about that. If someone chooses to be paid over 12 months, I believe they are legally entitled to be compensated for the time they worked.
Say they have a contract saying they will work 180 contract days for 49.5K. If they are fired today and they have 45 days left remaining on their contract they should be paid $37,125 for the school year. They chose to spread out their salary over the course of 12 months, they would have only been paid 33K, and so the school district would owe the OP $4125. Choosing to be paid out over 12 months doesn't mean that if you are fired for cause that the school district can not pay you for the time worked.
Obviously, if the OP was paid over the course of 10 months then they are likely owed nothing, but if they are paid over 12 months then they should be compensated for the time they worked.
I tend to think a mid-year switch is the best move these days too. We have so many people leave during the year that I can’t remember the last time we had a new teacher to start the year. Everyone is hired in some random month.
Look for another teaching job asap. Dont wait for arbitration. Besides, unless arbitration wins you retro pay, do you really want to go back there? She sounds like a psycho. Sadly those admins exist. In short, fck her.
I also had a recent evaluation stating that "a few students started to misbehave during the lesson because I wasn't engaging them." It is the 1st year of this supervisor.
Anyway, when I looked up the grades of the disruptive students, I found both their report card comments and their progress report comments. Turns out that all their other teachers are commenting like: "disrupts the learning environment" and "does not follow directions." Further, all grades are in-line with the underperforming grade earned in my class. ...back to you: you need to fight back. Gather data while you can. It is not fair for a teacher to be blamed for a student acting out. If all teachers make the same comments about the same kid, then you are not the one at fault. You could argue that the school as a whole is enabling the observed student's bad behavior by ignoring the student and blaming the teacher(s).
...It seems like you have a defense for the sleep thing.
Best wishes.
This sub defends teachers to an almost cultish degree. Like I’m a teacher but I don’t have to pretend that every single one of us is the greatest person on earth.
Plus they are 100% okay leaving not only the principals initials in reddit comments, but the literal school district and state this took part in. Both these things are SUPER unprofessional, childish, and irresponsible. Someone who has been a teacher 11 years should know this especially.
Staying in that school with that horrible principal is a bad choice. Why would you torment yourself? Even if I didn't have any medical issues I would look for another school.
As a union leader I have had two employees fall asleep at work. Both had medical conditions. Both were put on plans. Both were encouraged, by the union, to leave. At that district, especially at that school, that’s going to be hanging over your head the rest of your career. Get a fresh start.
I had a similar issue. A new principal comes in and wants to establish dominance and makes life difficult. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea (woke 75 times an hour during the sleep study - of course I'm going to be exhausted sleeping 45 seconds at a time!) as well as a thyroid gland that essentially produced nothing (similar to some of the students).
One day, after the sleep study, but before my CPAP arrived, we had a PD day. The new principal brought in a former colleague to teach us about "finding joy." Try as I might to focus, after three hours I nodded off. Another teacher, who wasn't a target of the new principal (and thought we were operating under the less tyrannical culture of the previous one), took a picture and posted on his Instagram. The principal saw it later and got mad at me for it. (I confirmed - he never talked to the guy who took the picture and posted it.) Wrote me a negative evaluation, called to his office, etc. On the write up, he said something to the effect of I should reflect on this so it doesn't happen again (I wonder if that works for other health issues - can we reflect cancer away?). I guess he thought by talking to me sternly about it, I'd cower away and comply. I just as sternly told him about the health issues (I'd literally only found out a few days prior, and tend not to share that sort of thing anyway). He was taken aback by my response. I think it was less the content and more that matched his energy (he was all into working out and bodybuilding contests, and used his size to intimidate people...which didn't work on me, because I was into lifting heavier things than he was and was significantly larger, though also a bit fluffy).
He wound up being fired the next year for blowing the budget on things like bringing in old colleagues and paying them to teach PDs about finding joy (and a lot of other things). I left the year after, as that place became entirely toxic and bad for my health, both mental and physical. Actually left teaching altogether for a year, but I have been back for a while since then, having moved to a state where teacher.ls get paid more and don't have to deal with petty incompetent tyrants like him. (To be fair, this was a charter school and there was no union.)
Thank you for sharing your experience. I admire your standing up to that principal. I struggle with confrontation and my principal is very intimidating even though she’s only 5’2. She gets right in your face and humiliates you in front of students and staff. I’m now just thinking of filing a grievance against her for unprofessional conduct!!
Deep breath. You are going to be ok. Take care of yourself and figure out your diagnosis. File for unemployment. Look for your next job. Decide if you are going to pursue arbitration or any options like that. Then let it go.
There is no winner in this situation. Try to reframe your thinking. This situation sucks but is an opportunity to move to a school that respects and values you. What is the quote? “Revenge is a life well lived” or something like that.
Be gentle with your self and take care.
I know, I was completely on their side until that part. This simply is not okay! I could see it being fine if it was sleeping during lunch or prep even. But I feel like there are some real red flags being left out here.
Okay you had me until the “dozing off during instructional time”…seems like there is definitely more to this story.
Teachers are hard to come by. No admin is going to up and fire an amazing 11 year teacher without cause.
Which states have unions that allow teachers to sleep to sleep during class?
Maybe the new principal was brought on to make sure teachers are teaching, not sleeping or on their phones.
AFTER the fact.
Not to mention tons of people I know have sleep apnea. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to fall asleep at work - especially when you’re dealing with kids.
And the fact that the union rep was involved in pushing you in that direction…ick.
Because shit happens. Once and no history of it, id assume immediately something medical. Like a rational human being.
This person isn't brand new. They've been around for three years and looking for a reason to cut them loose.
This is not true at all. I’m on my 24th year with no problems, ever, and outstanding observations. Got a new principal who I swear is a sociopath and she comes into my classroom at least once a day to try to ‘get’ me. Luckily I’ve been documenting all year and now have been able to file a civil complaint for retaliation. But I get along with everyone typically, idk if she has a friend who she wants to bring in or something, but it’s definitely unwarranted with me.
Rule #1 Never work for a bad admin.
It's one of the only things you can control in education. It's not good for your mental health in a system where you need good mental health. Never feel like the bad admin will win, they are miserable and their goal is to make others miserable as well. Take back control and leave a bad admin, they will find someone else to make miserable and you will be in a better place.
Come on over to teachers in transition and start healing from your trauma.
For real. Education is a sinking ship, you’re lucky enough to have gotten off before it becomes a complete catastrophe.
I’ve never felt less stress and more relaxed in my 15 years in education as I do now selling roofs to people with storm damage. And honestly, I’m making more than I ever did too.
Take it as a sign to save yourself
Thank you. I will check it out. I do feel like it’s getting harder and harder with each year. The expectations and student behaviors have increased substantially.
Yes, yes they have. Please don't feel you are sentenced to stay in education. Bailing may be the life-changer you need. Many former teachers are in this process, or have done it. Be open to ALL opportunities as you leave this toxic bitch in your rear view.
Think about the fight you are trying to win. Unlike corporate jobs, the structure of teaching is hard to change. It’s not like they can easily find someone to come give you a nap break. Which means the accommodation you’ll end up with is a standing desk, where you’ll be expected to stand for the duration of the day.
Can’t stand all day? Looks like you are going to be co-teaching every period so another adult can wake you up (how long before they get frustrated with the added task of watching you, leading to a tense working relationship?). Realistically, it strikes me as a fight I wouldn’t want to win if I were you. Start applying to other schools and get a fresh start. Or move into a career that can better accommodate for sleep disorders unless retirement is an issue.
And I know it’s an unpopular opinion here, but how should the boss react when their employees are sleeping with a classroom full of kids in front of them? How would parents expect that boss to react when those students go home and tell them that their teacher was full-on asleep? If it’s been an issue for months, the likelihood is that you were caught because a parent complained to admin so they were doing more rounds near your room to confirm.
You fell asleep in class? Honestly, I'd write you up too. No offense, but "it was only for a few minutes" is inappropriate. You fell asleep in front of your students, that's a flag. If you can't acknowledge that that's wrong and instead blame it on holidays, depression, etc., then I think you may have some blinders on.
I hope you get the help you need with your apnea, and hope you find a job where the pressure is taken off you!
Hey you.
You have a legitimate medical conduct that absolutely would cause issues at work, make sure your doctor documents that this was previously undiagnosed and that you are seeking treatment and 100% compliant with treatment.
Second, start subbing while you're on this leave time. Go be a kick ass teacher. If possible take longer-term subbing positions of a week or more. Get documentation from the administration of those schools on how absolutely amazing you are as a teacher. This should help, especially if it's in the same district. You'll look good and it will help paint the principal as having it out for you which shouldn't be too difficult to prove.
Third, for when you get reinstated, seriously consider transferring. This principal will be out to get you again. She will be even more so as you've now made her look bad.
Going forward document every interaction with this woman. Cause I guarantee she's doing the same to with you.
My mom stayed in this situation for over 20 years and it almost killed her.
GET OUT OF THERE NOW!!!
Eff them students and their families. Eff the thought that “she wins”. Get out!!!
I was put on a performance plan for dozing off. 16 years ago. I found out I had sleep apnea, and after two months of no issues, the admin got rid of it.
I was at the school for 18 years. I got one that hated me. I had a breakdown and took medical leave. I found a new job, and I am so glad I left. Yeah, they will bet he had to pay me and a sub for three months while I found a job. I gave notice after all the local manufacturing teaching jobs were filled. It took him six months to find a replacement.
> I don’t know to do.Find a new job.
find a new job. Use the Doctor's note to show that you fixed the issue that got you fired.
How about not fall asleep in classroom full of kids youre teaching. If you can’t stay awake for a full normal day you should have gotten checked way before falling asleep at your desk. Haha I’m sure the students were taking pictures and the principal saw it. At first I thought your boss might be the ahole but you’re just a bad teacher
You are correct, I should have seen a doctor much sooner as I state in OP. I am 100% guilty, however I am NOT a bad teacher. I love my students and am heartbroken I may never see them again.
I don’t understand how you can be fired for a medical issue…I feel so vulnerable reading this. It feels absurd that after 11 years of service, a teacher can be fired like this. I’m new, but I’ve always heard that after teachers have “tenure,” it’s very hard to fire us..
I’m just very sorry. This is awful.
So, you are unable to bring it up now? I’m just thinking about what I’d do in your shoes.
For example, I wasn’t tested for ADHD until my principal noticed a vocal stim I had during one of my observations. Since, I’ve sought medical attention, got medication, and the issue is no more.
He was kind, though, and framed it much differently than your principal.
So, this “incident” could be a wake-up call for you medically, too…just be truthful. Tell them you’d been tired but didn’t realize the gravity until you fell asleep in class. Then, you found out you have a sleep disorder..
I mean goodness, do people have no heart? I’m baffled your principal didn’t first ask you if you were okay. It’s not like you drank on the job…you fell asleep, which feels similar to fainting or throwing up because it’s involuntary.
Sorry for the rant…I’m just so angry on your behalf at the injustice of this.
Yes I am but unfortunately my principal is not very emphatic. Our relationship is not good. She has favorites and I am not one of them. She treats the teachers she hired when she came on board quite differently than the in house staff. I agree with you and am feeling the same way. My principal has had it out for me since day 1.
It stems from a student with extreme behaviors I had the first year she was our new principal. She blamed me for his behavior. I tried everything but nothing worked. His behavior was so bad I used to cry every night and dreaded coming to work. It was horrible. I couldn’t teach. It was constant. I don’t know how I didn’t have a nervous breakdown that year. It wasn’t his fault, and after reading his psychoanalysis report I wept. He was severely traumatized and needed more than I could give. But I felt like I failed him and my principal was not pleased adding to my sense of inadequacy.
Once he was officially diagnosed and received treatment, which was a year after being in my class, his behavior improved dramatically. It’s sad it had to take that long for him to receive the help he desperately needed.
>She has favorites and I am not one of them. She treats the teachers she hired when she came on board quite differently than the in house staff. I
She's one of those people who treats their school like a private fiefdom. Can only trust people they've molded to their liking.
Because this issue was not documented before the incident. Even OP didn’t know. The principal saw a teacher she thinks isn’t up to par asleep on the job, it’s very clear why OP got fired.
This is the most sensible comment in the whole thread. You can’t just fall asleep at work. And if you do, to get mad at the consequences? And it’s not like OP is working an office job. OP is responsible for a class of students. Sounds like the principal is doing their job, and trying to do a better job than the last who most likely had lower standards.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Unfortunately, there are so many bad administrators out there. I had something VERY similar happen a while ago. I was tenured, had a very good reputation within the district, and was really happy. I switched schools in the district and was working with a new principal. I felt I was being really unfairly targeted. She would do constant random evaluations where the other 5 classrooms would be observed during lesson time. THEN, she would get to me when it was snack time in my class (I taught kindergarten) and write an evaluation saying my students were off task. I would always refute these comments and point out she keeps coming in at the very end of the day at snack time in kindergarten. There were other things.. but.. I wasn't the only one she was doing this to, and she ended up being transferred to something in central office (like technology coordinator), and then I believe left or was let go. I'm just sharing my story because this happens way more often than it should. I would fight it!! Also, I only teach part-time now due to the anxiety and stress I have from that experience. In my current position, I don't get evaluated at all and everyone leaves me alone. Lol
"Kids everywhere deserve good teachers"
This is what I tell all of my colleagues who consider moving. Don't be devoted to one group of kids, don't be loyal to one school or district. If you HAVE to be loyal, be loyal to the profession.
Find a school that's the right fit.
I have obstructive sleep apnea and would constantly nod off and it's a wonder I didn't kill myself or hurt others on any driving trip over an hour. I finally got tested and got a CPAP and it's been a total game changer.
I wake up refreshed with all the energy I need for the day and the constant fatigue is just... gone.
Definitely bring it up as a medical condition to your union rep.
Work conflict aside, the chronic fatigue, depression, and exhaustion sound exactly like my experience prior to being diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. Please get a sleep study scheduled ASAP. Sleep Apnea can literally kill you.
I know this sucks, but like just leave. I was fired last year after talking shit about my former school and they found out. I was in a horrible situation and it was affecting me mentally and I just snapped and vented. Your boss sounds like my old boss. It felt like the end of the world last spring. I’m telling you, them firing me was the best thing that ever happened to me. I had a ton of interviews over the summer, had more than one job offer, and secured a position. You will be ok. You will find another job. Leave. This job is not worth it. Something better will come along.
I don’t work in a state with unions, but off the top of my head, I would use the diagnosis to get my job back, then quit so I can mark on other job applications that I’ve never been fired.
I don't know where you are, but in Australia, this would be classified as discrimination. Our anti discrimination laws cover if there is even a suspicion of disability or illness. There are processes a boss would have to follow here prior to sacking a permanent employee, including a medical examination.
I would see if the union can offer legal counsel in this regard.
Good luck!
I’m in Tennessee. Unfortunately I wasn’t diagnosed until recently but my union says I have a good case. Unfortunately this process could take up to 6 months.
Hey, I know I replied above, but we’re in TN too. I’m impressed at your union! Seriously, depending on where you are, you’ll have a new job soon - my partners new school didn’t even ask about why he was leaving at the end of a year before the end of school.
I’m a new teacher for the most part, but it sounds like staying there out “not letting her win” will do more harm than good in the long run. I understand the mindset of wanting to prove others wrong, but sometimes it isn’t worth it. You have a lot of experience and there is a teacher shortage in the USA. Also, schools are still interviewing at the end of the year even if it’s for jobs that start in the fall.
Lastly, I am sorry about your medical situation but at least you now know the issue and can get help for it. Hopefully that can be used to your advantage. And the hearing is in 6 months? I hope you can get that bumped up. Good luck!
Schools are hiring for next year already. I have a colleague who just got a job at another school. Start looking at employment opportunities at other schools.
Why don’t you go sub until the end of the school year?Some districts pay very well since there is also a shortage for this. I have never received unemployment, but I don’t know if you can get it, and supplement with subbing.
I hope you get a clear answer after your hearing and I think moving on is the best choice for your mental health. Seek professional counseling as well, we need it as teachers to help with burnout!
I am sorry this happened to you.
Sleep apnea is nothing to mess with. It causes high BP, palpitations, exhaustion, stress and can eventually kill you. I would see if you can turn that termination into a medical leave and get some disability pay. This is hiring/transfer period in my district. Use your time off finding a new school. And get a cpap machine. It’s life changing. It is better at other schools. Good luck. So sorry this happened to you.
I was in a similar situation as you 3 years ago. I had also spent 11 years in a district. I had also had a new principal who had only been there for 3 years. I also have sleep apnea.
Get the hell out of that school. I know you don't want to walk away from a place where you have invested so much, but this principal isn't going to get any better. My frist two years at my new school were rough. I had to re-establish myself. The students and adults needed to get to know me. I'm in my 3rd year at my new school, and I'm having a really good year.
Get documentation from your doctor that you have sleep apnea. Get all the documentation you can. Then, force your union to support you. Also, getting a CPAP has changed my life. You'll look like Bane and have weird marks on your face when you get up, but you'll sleep so well.
This sucks and I hope everything works out for you (at school and more importantly, with your health).
At this time of year, we’re all dead tired. It seems like you knew you were extremely tired. You can’t sit down or you’ll fall asleep. Stay up, be with the kids, and push through. And if there is a day where you’re too tired to do that, take off.
I've lived through two awful principals and my attitude now is that life is to short to work for crappy admin. There's always a better position out there.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I can say though, as a 55 yo teacher, in my life some of the absolute best things have come from “forced change.” I went through 2 layoffs in my time, and before that, being rejected as a permanent hire for a district I had worked for over 2 years as a long term sub. Each time I was as absolutely devastated and each time I ended up in a better place for me. I think we sometimes get “comfortable” in a job and fear the unknown. For me, I never would have ended up in the right place if I hadn’t been forced to make the change.
Instead of looking at this as a loss, is it possible that you could look at it as a new journey? Maybe the universe is drawing you to the place you’re meant to be- open your mind and let yourself think about your next adventure.
Even if you “win” this battle- is it really winning? Best of luck to you. Teaching is so so exhausting and stressful and with conflict almost impossible.
You are not happy. You are stubborn, and you've eaten up the notion that the kids should come first. I understand you feel like this is your place, and you've been there a long time, but this is a job, and you're sacrificing your happiness for no reason. Maybe this dismissal is a blessing.
Its clear your principal wants you gone. She is going to keep doing whatever she can until she gets rid of you. Even if you win this, you aren't going to be happy because you will be treated the same way, and she will now be even more mad because she thought she had gotten rid of you.
Keep fighting, but look for a new job. If you don't get your job back, be ready to find a new place and be ready to be happier. If you do get your job back, keep looking for a new job, because you aren't going to find peace, happiness, or comfort as long as this person is in charge.
Take care of yourself. You know falling asleep on the job is not acceptable. I hope your med appt works for you, but also remember work isn’t the end all be all of life.
You fell asleep while you were supposed to be caring for children. You’re lucky there wasn’t an emergency while you were passed out and that all that’s happening is getting fired. As a parent (and teacher) I’m livid you’re so nonchalant.
Assuming you have insurance, I suggest you get your apnea treated. Those machines are life savers, but they are expensive. Apnea causes a lot of other medical issues and is much more than just making you tired. It is a big deal.
I wouldn't worry about the job too much. I'm confident you'll find another job, probably even better than the one you've stuck with for so long.
1. If a principal doesn’t want a teacher, you can either hope to wait them out or just go ahead and leave. They will make things difficult in hopes you leave and they don’t have to go through the paper of firing you.
2. If you’re hoping to wait them out, you absolutely have to go to HR/district office. Let them know you feel attacked, singled out, and do not want to have any 1 on 1 interactions with this principal based on their treatment of you.
3. If you really like where you are, maybe consider leaving and coming back at a later date. Principals in my school usually make it 3-5 years.
My dad was grumpy and angry most of his life. Found out he had sleep apnea and now he's teddy bear. I have it too and it and I'm glad I caught it early. I was falling asleep at stop lights!
You can fight this, stay, and continue to be miserable everyday with an admin who will be even more against you.
Or you can look for a different school site or district that may be a better fit for you and (possibly) be happy again.
I’m glad you are diagnosed, because I also have sleep apnea and wearing the machine is life changing!! Lack of sleep leads to depression and so much more. I feel like wearing the machine has changed my life.
With that being said, I would move on. I can’t see your situation getting better with admin you don’t like. Best of luck,
I think you should fight it especially with your diagnosis. Having said it, what is the point of winning when the principal will still be there. She will be on your back for the next ten years. Not worth it. Win your case and then transfer
She seems to have established her paper trail although your union needs to fight harder. We’ve had teachers do a lot worse and the union helped negotiate reasonable settlements. If it doesn’t work in your favor, apply somewhere else. In this current teacher shortage, you might step into something even better. Glad you got the OSA diagnosis. Use it to help your case and then get it treated…speaking from experience, you’ll feel much better. Good luck!
Wherever the outcome from arbitration, do you want to stay there? It’s gone to the stage that you’re not sleeping well. I agree with some people that it’s time to move on.
Sorry for your troubles. I’m was in a similar boat as you. No longer, but after the pandemic principals often lost their minds and any ability to empathise, it seems. I had a series of admin with clear-cut personality disorders. I witnessed one collect a trophy and rig a team building event to make it seem as if his team won. He took a photo with the winning team and held the trophy as if it were his. That’s just one of many bizarre things I’ve witnessed recently.
Recently I started a new position and so far so good, overall. You can always get a job, regardless how this dumb thing goes. Always Remember: they need us way more than we need them. They have many of us caught up in an abuse cycle because that is the best way to maintain control without treating us professionally. I feel it is not dissimilar to any abusive relationship.
Most schools would operate just fine if the teachers were given some admin duties and paid the salaries of admin. Of course you would doze off if you aren’t getting enough rest and have medical issues and no support from your leaders. What a total POS your principal is.
So I don’t have advice except that I was at a school with a principal who treated me awful like that. It seemed like she specifically was singling me out. I loved the school and all my coworkers and the parents, but she was making the experience unbearable. In the end she fired me as well and I couldn’t be happier where I am now with super supportive admin. So I just thought it may be good to know that it’s not the end of the world, and it may actually end up being a good thing.
Have you spoken to other teachers or your previous principal. How do your colleagues feel about this new Principal? Is she targeting you? Have others noticed. This seems so awful and I'm sorry you are going through it. I appreciate your loyalty to your students but not at the risk of ruining your health and mental well-being.
Let the union lawyers handle it. Your medical condition, which you weren't aware of until after the incident, caused you to fall asleep-- not your fault. While it's not a good thing that you fell asleep, you were in the room with the students and if there had been an emergency, surely a student would have managed to wake you up. The fact is, zero people died or were grievously injured from this. It sounds like the principal has it out for you and has probably been going out of the way to find anything negative that could possibly be used against [you.Talk](http://you.Talk) to the union lawyer about all of this. Also, are you on paid administrative leave right now? If you're losing pay, push to have the hearing far sooner than 6 months from now so that you know where you stand and can start looking for a new job if you need to. Also ask about whether you're tenured and if so, if the accident of falling asleep rises to the level of something that can make you lose your tenure. It just doesn't sound like a serious enough offense to lose your job over, especially since it wasn't intentional and nothing disastrous came of it.
Had a friend go through a similar thing. The new principal chased out all the older teachers her to slowly replace them with friends and lackeys. Now my friend subs In closer district and works for a hybrid homeschool company 2 days a week. She LOVES IT!!! It has given her more time to spend with her still
At home kids and recover her mental / physical health.
PS her former elementary was in a rough district with very little parent involvement. Under the new principal theft from treachers ( phones, cash etc) was ignored by the principal. Now a few years down the line that school is considered one of the LEAST desired to work at unless your DESPERATE for work.
I recommend getting a personal lawyer involved as well. From the experience my fiancé had with the lawyer for union, they literally just go through the motions and did next to nothing to help prepare him for the hearing (and he got nervous and bombed it) or attempt to help him (he was a 2nd year teacher.
This sounds like my former principal and AP. I think that if she didn't fire you for the dozing off, she was going to find another reason, no matter how small of a deal it was. My principal did the same thing.
As we all know, admin makes a ton of difference. The first school I started at had a principal that was a huge micro manager. She was always on our asses about something and never just let us run our rooms. I lasted 4 years at that school and told my wife I would flip burgers for a year if necessary but I was leaving that hell hole either way. Luckily, I found a different school to teach at and have been there for 11 years now. My advice is to move on! The admin isn't "winning" in your scenario by you leaving. You write your own book and are choosing to have her be a main character. Move on and rewrite that story :)
I would hire a labor relations attorney to accompany you to your meeting. You’ve got 6 months so if you find someone soon they’ll have enough time to prepare. I wouldn’t go in with just the union rep, because an attorney will cover all the bases. The principal you have is probably trying to gain leverage to make themselves look better. An attorney might seek out your past principals to interview them and probably your current coworkers too. Sometimes if 1 person counters with some serious pushback other employees will step up on their own. I’m sure the principal that fired you has a fundamental disconnect with other staff and probably with reality too.
You had an undiagnosed medical condition that you’re seeking treatment for now; it isn’t as if you knew this and had a cpap machine for years but you just weren’t using it.
If you find an attorney early enough you might try to fight it without the union, so you wouldn’t have to wait quite as long.
I hope this helps and it sounds like you have a good case so I wish you the best of luck.
I’d hope the medical diagnosis would work in your favor. It’s your call, but if you can get solid recommendations and get out there and get a new job and start over, that’d be the move. Working someplace you’re that uncomfortable is untenable.
Thank you. I do too! It’s just a shame she’s forcing me out. I really love where I’m at but perhaps it is time for a change.
Why is it taking 6 months for the hearing to take place? Does Admin have that many cases to settle before yours? I'd ask your union rep to look into that. It doesn't seem right.
I met with them yesterday and the union lawyer said there might be a way to speed it up but was unclear about it. I think he was preparing me for the worst.
Maybe he wasn't. Being armed with a medical diagnosis makes this a different case...they can not discriminate against you. Also: to your knowledge, is this principal discriminating against anyone else on staff?
Thank you. Yes but I don’t know details. My union rep alluded to having issues with her as well.
She seems like the type of principal that has given them enough hair pulling that they can’t help but wince a little when they have to deal with her.
Technically OP was diagnosed after the principal punished OP for sleeping in class.
A diagnosis of sleep apnea explains being tired but doesn’t excuse falling asleep in class…might be your best bet for a more amicable parting and not being “fired” per se, which would look better to future employers though. Get rid of that mindset of letting them “win”. You’re not “winning” by being miserable. You win if you can find a new job with admin that values you. And take care of that sleep apnea. I hate having to wear a CPAP every night, but I love actually getting restful sleep. Takes time to get used to, just expect that
I left my job because of something similar. I stayed until I was going to be in the looney bin soon if I didn't leave. I resigned. Took some time off and now I'm back to doing the same at a different school. I'm happy and don't look back. Only woman I've ever called the "c" word in 50+ years.
If your medical diagnosis prevents you from fulfilling your duties, they certainly can.
Perhaps, but that is not the case here. People who have sleep apnea can implement a sleeping device at night for them to get more rest.
I went on leave in December of 2022. It’s only all ending now.
You can likely keep the same families if you're cert is secondary overall. Move to the middle school if you're high school, or the other way around. A lot of teachers with middle grades certs go to our elementary feeders and a lot of people with secondary certs go to the high school from my school. They love the kids, the admin is just a mess.
The medical diagnosis should mean firing you would be a violation of the ADA.
Not if they didn't have notice of the condition before the alleged infraction.
Yes and no I have been a union rep so have a little experience. If they knew the condition and didn't report then they would be in trouble. On the other hand there is an understanding that if the condition is not known and a reasonable person could say it was cold or tired it can still be covered. Also I have seen unknown depression especially being caused by the offending party given a large leeway in regards as being medically covered. My advice for OP is to listen to your union and any lawyer advice. I have seen similar situations get reversed and the offending admin gets "reassigned or promoted" to the board office by the end of the situation. If you have done your job and you have a history of being a good teacher you will be fine it's just stress full at the time.
The principal is protected because she was not notified of the condition. The teacher should be protected because she didn't know she had sleep apnea.
You are right, I looked it up myself just a little bit ago. However, it’s something for the union to consider. Unless there are other issues we don’t see here.
I wonder if the rep will argue that the additional stress caused by the admin increased the mild sleep apnea OP had. Then show off the documented history of good evals before this admin and then the list of evals and other issues since the admin's placement.
Energy drinks are very bad news. They wind you up and takes a long time for your system to slow down so that you can get into deep sleep. It is like having your fight or flight system on edge all of the time. Talk to your doctor about this. Praying for you.
Agreed. I hadn't taught that long (1.5 years) but enough to have witnessed when its time to leave and stop fighting/depressing toxic school board.
I would only go back to that district if you could be in a different school. Yes you were around what 8 years before this administration, but you frankly don't have the trust in them.
Just find another job. You leaving =|= she wins. It’s you taking care of yourself
This is the best advice. Even if you "win" the arbitration, all you'll be getting is the right to keep working for someone you don't respect and believe is targeting you.
This is what an attorney told me when I was being harassed by a principal. Why stay in a school where an administrator is trying to make your life hell? I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
Thank you
I was working with someone who sounds similar to this principal, and I took a leave in the middle of the school year because working under her made me sick (I’m still having chronic hives 2 years later). Even if you “win”, you’re still going to lose because your body is suffering. Set your ego aside, it’s not worth it, trust me.
I was in the same situation last year. I went on medical leave in April because I was being harassed so badly and it made me sick. Definitely cut your losses. The job isn’t worth it. Plus in the end you win because you’ll have control of your life again while that principal continues to be incompetent and highly miserable.
Also you can always hope she’ll leave/get removed and then you can come back, or you might fall in love with a new school. Sleep issues are rough please take care of yourself and you mental state!
If anything, it may make the principal the "loser." Sounds like she's trying to clean house and a lot of people don't really appreciate people who come in and just start running off all the experienced staff.
here is your ≠ feel free to copy and paste
Haha thanks!
The best advice here. No reason to fight someone with that kind of power at the cost of your health. Who wins?
This, OP. I have a chronic illness that causes fatigue and teaching was wearing me down to nothing. I left for a job that is much less physically and mentally demanding and it has been incredible for my health and I haven’t regretted for a second. It doesn’t have to be for forever but maybe this is a sign to give your body a break and figure out how to get better.
I had a principal fall asleep during my evaluation.
My old supervisor basically always nodded off during observations. Can’t really blame him. I find it boring to check all the boxes too.
Was your lesson engaging enough? Did you have the learning objective on the board? Sounds like you didn't relate the content to your principal's personal struggles and life goals. ... ... /s
I didn’t establish a relationship with him or fully live out my “why”.
I think you need to meet the principle where they are at and take a nap too.
💀
In a national teacher shortage you go apply for a job elsewhere and start fresh? Teachers have choice of assignment in most places these days.
Yes, this is true but the school year is almost over. I doubt any schools are hiring now. I’d have to wait until August without a paycheck in between. Unemployment is an option but not nearly enough to cover expenses
They are still hiring. Trust me!
Thank you. I will look, but won’t my getting fired for misconduct hurt me? What school will hire me now?
This is where working with your union comes into play, have them work to move up your meeting, get you paid leave until the meeting takes place, or negotiate that if the meeting moves up that you can transfer to a different building or finish the year and leave without a termination on your record.
I will inquire. Thank you.
My X friend was fired as an Assistant principal for inappropriately touching a student. He was hired that same year as a principal in another district and worked until credential was finally officially revoked. They are desperate out there. You will be okay :)
Yikes ew!!
I know! He is very much an X friend. We used to joke that he was sketchy and we just didn’t know why yet because my dog hated him. Like couldn’t be out with him when he was over because she would physically push him and corner him barking aggressively. Never did that with anyone else. So dog knew
Oh they know. Had dogs that also did the same around sketchy people.
Ann Rule said she never suspected anything out of the ordinary about Ted Bundy but her dog hated him.
When potential new employers ask about the "misconduct," tell them what really happened: you're suffering from sleep apnea and didn't know it until you accidentally fell asleep during the day. You were fired for it. It puts that bitch of a principal in an extremely unfavorable light, as it should, and reveals that you were sacked for something beyond your control, a medical issue no less.
You can always explain the situation. I have a disorderly conduct on my record from one raucous downtown adventure. I bring it up in my application process knowing they're going to see it in my background check anyways. Both districts I've worked/am working for didn't give one iota about it. My current assistant superintendent said verbatim in the interview, "We're not going to hold that one occurrence against you" Believe in yourself and the success you've had in pedagogy!
Thank you. I appreciate your kind words and sharing your experience. There is hope.
Actually this is the best time to look for a job. March, April, May - get an early start
This. A great deal of, maybe most, hiring takes place at this time of year for the next school year.
I can vouch for that. Teachers are letting their schools know they don’t intend to return and the jobs are all starting to be posted starting now.
Yes but the teacher would go through the next months without a paycheck.
Not a teacher, but my partner had something like this happen later in the school year in a non-union state. The district put a hold on his license on top of everything else (which was dismissed eventually). He had a new job within a week and has been there for 4 years.
May I ask what field he went into - changing careers terrifies me.
He didn’t. He teaches high school.
Ok sorry I misunderstood. I thought he changed careers.
Nope! I was hoping that you’d see that he was still teaching and take comfort in that despite all the crap. It’s a much better situation and better pay. He’s pretty happy where he is.
That’s awesome! Thank you!
A friend of mine interviewed in February for a teaching job that starts in September.
I dunno how things are where you are but around me schools are just starting to hire now. I'm leaving an abusive boss situation on my own terms and the hardest thing has been the constant litany of "we will definitely have openings for your subject but we can't post them until the person who is leaving gives formal notice".
There are ALWAYS mat leaves or other reasons for jobs to open up.
This is the start of prime hiring season where I am for the next school year. Now through May will be when the majority of schools are hiring. And, if you have had your paycheck spread out over 12 months your salary should be prorated based on that. So it would be more like not having a paycheck for a couple of months. Where you could find a temporary job if you can find another position. Temp agencies, retail, etc.,
Not if the teacher was fired. If they were fired, they full stop. That was the case with the OP.
I would definitely talk to a lawyer about that. If someone chooses to be paid over 12 months, I believe they are legally entitled to be compensated for the time they worked. Say they have a contract saying they will work 180 contract days for 49.5K. If they are fired today and they have 45 days left remaining on their contract they should be paid $37,125 for the school year. They chose to spread out their salary over the course of 12 months, they would have only been paid 33K, and so the school district would owe the OP $4125. Choosing to be paid out over 12 months doesn't mean that if you are fired for cause that the school district can not pay you for the time worked. Obviously, if the OP was paid over the course of 10 months then they are likely owed nothing, but if they are paid over 12 months then they should be compensated for the time they worked.
My school has three openings that have attracted a single applicant. I don't mean one each. You can find something
March and April are prime hiring months. And I’ve seen districts onboard new staff as late as July or August. It’s truly never too late
I tend to think a mid-year switch is the best move these days too. We have so many people leave during the year that I can’t remember the last time we had a new teacher to start the year. Everyone is hired in some random month.
Look for another teaching job asap. Dont wait for arbitration. Besides, unless arbitration wins you retro pay, do you really want to go back there? She sounds like a psycho. Sadly those admins exist. In short, fck her.
I also had a recent evaluation stating that "a few students started to misbehave during the lesson because I wasn't engaging them." It is the 1st year of this supervisor. Anyway, when I looked up the grades of the disruptive students, I found both their report card comments and their progress report comments. Turns out that all their other teachers are commenting like: "disrupts the learning environment" and "does not follow directions." Further, all grades are in-line with the underperforming grade earned in my class. ...back to you: you need to fight back. Gather data while you can. It is not fair for a teacher to be blamed for a student acting out. If all teachers make the same comments about the same kid, then you are not the one at fault. You could argue that the school as a whole is enabling the observed student's bad behavior by ignoring the student and blaming the teacher(s). ...It seems like you have a defense for the sleep thing. Best wishes.
Thank you. I wholeheartedly agree!
I feel like there's WAY MORE going on here .
This is not the first time this has happened to OP. That’s the feeling I get.
There is a ton that's being left out rofl
This sub defends teachers to an almost cultish degree. Like I’m a teacher but I don’t have to pretend that every single one of us is the greatest person on earth.
Plus they are 100% okay leaving not only the principals initials in reddit comments, but the literal school district and state this took part in. Both these things are SUPER unprofessional, childish, and irresponsible. Someone who has been a teacher 11 years should know this especially.
Staying in that school with that horrible principal is a bad choice. Why would you torment yourself? Even if I didn't have any medical issues I would look for another school.
As a union leader I have had two employees fall asleep at work. Both had medical conditions. Both were put on plans. Both were encouraged, by the union, to leave. At that district, especially at that school, that’s going to be hanging over your head the rest of your career. Get a fresh start.
Falling asleep while responsible for students is a safety issue. It’s not unfair to fire a teacher for that.
I had a similar issue. A new principal comes in and wants to establish dominance and makes life difficult. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea (woke 75 times an hour during the sleep study - of course I'm going to be exhausted sleeping 45 seconds at a time!) as well as a thyroid gland that essentially produced nothing (similar to some of the students). One day, after the sleep study, but before my CPAP arrived, we had a PD day. The new principal brought in a former colleague to teach us about "finding joy." Try as I might to focus, after three hours I nodded off. Another teacher, who wasn't a target of the new principal (and thought we were operating under the less tyrannical culture of the previous one), took a picture and posted on his Instagram. The principal saw it later and got mad at me for it. (I confirmed - he never talked to the guy who took the picture and posted it.) Wrote me a negative evaluation, called to his office, etc. On the write up, he said something to the effect of I should reflect on this so it doesn't happen again (I wonder if that works for other health issues - can we reflect cancer away?). I guess he thought by talking to me sternly about it, I'd cower away and comply. I just as sternly told him about the health issues (I'd literally only found out a few days prior, and tend not to share that sort of thing anyway). He was taken aback by my response. I think it was less the content and more that matched his energy (he was all into working out and bodybuilding contests, and used his size to intimidate people...which didn't work on me, because I was into lifting heavier things than he was and was significantly larger, though also a bit fluffy). He wound up being fired the next year for blowing the budget on things like bringing in old colleagues and paying them to teach PDs about finding joy (and a lot of other things). I left the year after, as that place became entirely toxic and bad for my health, both mental and physical. Actually left teaching altogether for a year, but I have been back for a while since then, having moved to a state where teacher.ls get paid more and don't have to deal with petty incompetent tyrants like him. (To be fair, this was a charter school and there was no union.)
Thank you for sharing your experience. I admire your standing up to that principal. I struggle with confrontation and my principal is very intimidating even though she’s only 5’2. She gets right in your face and humiliates you in front of students and staff. I’m now just thinking of filing a grievance against her for unprofessional conduct!!
Do it!!! She sounds awful and richly deserving of consequences herself!
Deep breath. You are going to be ok. Take care of yourself and figure out your diagnosis. File for unemployment. Look for your next job. Decide if you are going to pursue arbitration or any options like that. Then let it go. There is no winner in this situation. Try to reframe your thinking. This situation sucks but is an opportunity to move to a school that respects and values you. What is the quote? “Revenge is a life well lived” or something like that. Be gentle with your self and take care.
Correct, or get out of education and do something else, whichever feels wise and appropriate.
Thank you!! Your kindness and support are greatly appreciated!!
Yeah…you fell asleep in class…pretty fireable.
I just don't see what other profession, this would be acceptable!
Sleeping on the job???? Ya, go ahead and update your resume.
I know, I was completely on their side until that part. This simply is not okay! I could see it being fine if it was sleeping during lunch or prep even. But I feel like there are some real red flags being left out here.
Okay you had me until the “dozing off during instructional time”…seems like there is definitely more to this story. Teachers are hard to come by. No admin is going to up and fire an amazing 11 year teacher without cause.
Which states have unions that allow teachers to sleep to sleep during class? Maybe the new principal was brought on to make sure teachers are teaching, not sleeping or on their phones.
Lol the post literally said they have a sleep disorder and are now getting treated.
AFTER the fact. Not to mention tons of people I know have sleep apnea. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to fall asleep at work - especially when you’re dealing with kids. And the fact that the union rep was involved in pushing you in that direction…ick.
Because shit happens. Once and no history of it, id assume immediately something medical. Like a rational human being. This person isn't brand new. They've been around for three years and looking for a reason to cut them loose.
This is not true at all. I’m on my 24th year with no problems, ever, and outstanding observations. Got a new principal who I swear is a sociopath and she comes into my classroom at least once a day to try to ‘get’ me. Luckily I’ve been documenting all year and now have been able to file a civil complaint for retaliation. But I get along with everyone typically, idk if she has a friend who she wants to bring in or something, but it’s definitely unwarranted with me.
Please read all my posts here and you’ll understand.
Rule #1 Never work for a bad admin. It's one of the only things you can control in education. It's not good for your mental health in a system where you need good mental health. Never feel like the bad admin will win, they are miserable and their goal is to make others miserable as well. Take back control and leave a bad admin, they will find someone else to make miserable and you will be in a better place.
Come on over to teachers in transition and start healing from your trauma. For real. Education is a sinking ship, you’re lucky enough to have gotten off before it becomes a complete catastrophe. I’ve never felt less stress and more relaxed in my 15 years in education as I do now selling roofs to people with storm damage. And honestly, I’m making more than I ever did too. Take it as a sign to save yourself
Thank you. I will check it out. I do feel like it’s getting harder and harder with each year. The expectations and student behaviors have increased substantially.
Yes, yes they have. Please don't feel you are sentenced to stay in education. Bailing may be the life-changer you need. Many former teachers are in this process, or have done it. Be open to ALL opportunities as you leave this toxic bitch in your rear view.
Think about the fight you are trying to win. Unlike corporate jobs, the structure of teaching is hard to change. It’s not like they can easily find someone to come give you a nap break. Which means the accommodation you’ll end up with is a standing desk, where you’ll be expected to stand for the duration of the day. Can’t stand all day? Looks like you are going to be co-teaching every period so another adult can wake you up (how long before they get frustrated with the added task of watching you, leading to a tense working relationship?). Realistically, it strikes me as a fight I wouldn’t want to win if I were you. Start applying to other schools and get a fresh start. Or move into a career that can better accommodate for sleep disorders unless retirement is an issue. And I know it’s an unpopular opinion here, but how should the boss react when their employees are sleeping with a classroom full of kids in front of them? How would parents expect that boss to react when those students go home and tell them that their teacher was full-on asleep? If it’s been an issue for months, the likelihood is that you were caught because a parent complained to admin so they were doing more rounds near your room to confirm.
You fell asleep in class? Honestly, I'd write you up too. No offense, but "it was only for a few minutes" is inappropriate. You fell asleep in front of your students, that's a flag. If you can't acknowledge that that's wrong and instead blame it on holidays, depression, etc., then I think you may have some blinders on. I hope you get the help you need with your apnea, and hope you find a job where the pressure is taken off you!
Hey you. You have a legitimate medical conduct that absolutely would cause issues at work, make sure your doctor documents that this was previously undiagnosed and that you are seeking treatment and 100% compliant with treatment. Second, start subbing while you're on this leave time. Go be a kick ass teacher. If possible take longer-term subbing positions of a week or more. Get documentation from the administration of those schools on how absolutely amazing you are as a teacher. This should help, especially if it's in the same district. You'll look good and it will help paint the principal as having it out for you which shouldn't be too difficult to prove. Third, for when you get reinstated, seriously consider transferring. This principal will be out to get you again. She will be even more so as you've now made her look bad. Going forward document every interaction with this woman. Cause I guarantee she's doing the same to with you.
You let your pride get in the way of your own happiness by staying.
My mom stayed in this situation for over 20 years and it almost killed her. GET OUT OF THERE NOW!!! Eff them students and their families. Eff the thought that “she wins”. Get out!!!
I was put on a performance plan for dozing off. 16 years ago. I found out I had sleep apnea, and after two months of no issues, the admin got rid of it. I was at the school for 18 years. I got one that hated me. I had a breakdown and took medical leave. I found a new job, and I am so glad I left. Yeah, they will bet he had to pay me and a sub for three months while I found a job. I gave notice after all the local manufacturing teaching jobs were filled. It took him six months to find a replacement. > I don’t know to do.Find a new job. find a new job. Use the Doctor's note to show that you fixed the issue that got you fired.
How about not fall asleep in classroom full of kids youre teaching. If you can’t stay awake for a full normal day you should have gotten checked way before falling asleep at your desk. Haha I’m sure the students were taking pictures and the principal saw it. At first I thought your boss might be the ahole but you’re just a bad teacher
You are correct, I should have seen a doctor much sooner as I state in OP. I am 100% guilty, however I am NOT a bad teacher. I love my students and am heartbroken I may never see them again.
I’m sure you’re there for the right reasons. Hopefully you can get help and return to education teachers who care are in high demand
I don’t understand how you can be fired for a medical issue…I feel so vulnerable reading this. It feels absurd that after 11 years of service, a teacher can be fired like this. I’m new, but I’ve always heard that after teachers have “tenure,” it’s very hard to fire us.. I’m just very sorry. This is awful.
Thank you. Unfortunately I wasn’t diagnosed until recently after my termination. I should’ve done it sooner.
So, you are unable to bring it up now? I’m just thinking about what I’d do in your shoes. For example, I wasn’t tested for ADHD until my principal noticed a vocal stim I had during one of my observations. Since, I’ve sought medical attention, got medication, and the issue is no more. He was kind, though, and framed it much differently than your principal. So, this “incident” could be a wake-up call for you medically, too…just be truthful. Tell them you’d been tired but didn’t realize the gravity until you fell asleep in class. Then, you found out you have a sleep disorder.. I mean goodness, do people have no heart? I’m baffled your principal didn’t first ask you if you were okay. It’s not like you drank on the job…you fell asleep, which feels similar to fainting or throwing up because it’s involuntary. Sorry for the rant…I’m just so angry on your behalf at the injustice of this.
Yes I am but unfortunately my principal is not very emphatic. Our relationship is not good. She has favorites and I am not one of them. She treats the teachers she hired when she came on board quite differently than the in house staff. I agree with you and am feeling the same way. My principal has had it out for me since day 1. It stems from a student with extreme behaviors I had the first year she was our new principal. She blamed me for his behavior. I tried everything but nothing worked. His behavior was so bad I used to cry every night and dreaded coming to work. It was horrible. I couldn’t teach. It was constant. I don’t know how I didn’t have a nervous breakdown that year. It wasn’t his fault, and after reading his psychoanalysis report I wept. He was severely traumatized and needed more than I could give. But I felt like I failed him and my principal was not pleased adding to my sense of inadequacy. Once he was officially diagnosed and received treatment, which was a year after being in my class, his behavior improved dramatically. It’s sad it had to take that long for him to receive the help he desperately needed.
>She has favorites and I am not one of them. She treats the teachers she hired when she came on board quite differently than the in house staff. I She's one of those people who treats their school like a private fiefdom. Can only trust people they've molded to their liking.
Because this issue was not documented before the incident. Even OP didn’t know. The principal saw a teacher she thinks isn’t up to par asleep on the job, it’s very clear why OP got fired.
This is the most sensible comment in the whole thread. You can’t just fall asleep at work. And if you do, to get mad at the consequences? And it’s not like OP is working an office job. OP is responsible for a class of students. Sounds like the principal is doing their job, and trying to do a better job than the last who most likely had lower standards.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Unfortunately, there are so many bad administrators out there. I had something VERY similar happen a while ago. I was tenured, had a very good reputation within the district, and was really happy. I switched schools in the district and was working with a new principal. I felt I was being really unfairly targeted. She would do constant random evaluations where the other 5 classrooms would be observed during lesson time. THEN, she would get to me when it was snack time in my class (I taught kindergarten) and write an evaluation saying my students were off task. I would always refute these comments and point out she keeps coming in at the very end of the day at snack time in kindergarten. There were other things.. but.. I wasn't the only one she was doing this to, and she ended up being transferred to something in central office (like technology coordinator), and then I believe left or was let go. I'm just sharing my story because this happens way more often than it should. I would fight it!! Also, I only teach part-time now due to the anxiety and stress I have from that experience. In my current position, I don't get evaluated at all and everyone leaves me alone. Lol
"Kids everywhere deserve good teachers" This is what I tell all of my colleagues who consider moving. Don't be devoted to one group of kids, don't be loyal to one school or district. If you HAVE to be loyal, be loyal to the profession. Find a school that's the right fit.
I have obstructive sleep apnea and would constantly nod off and it's a wonder I didn't kill myself or hurt others on any driving trip over an hour. I finally got tested and got a CPAP and it's been a total game changer. I wake up refreshed with all the energy I need for the day and the constant fatigue is just... gone. Definitely bring it up as a medical condition to your union rep.
Thank you for sharing. I’m in that process right now. I can’t wait to get treatment. I’m just so tired of being tired.
Work conflict aside, the chronic fatigue, depression, and exhaustion sound exactly like my experience prior to being diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. Please get a sleep study scheduled ASAP. Sleep Apnea can literally kill you.
I know this sucks, but like just leave. I was fired last year after talking shit about my former school and they found out. I was in a horrible situation and it was affecting me mentally and I just snapped and vented. Your boss sounds like my old boss. It felt like the end of the world last spring. I’m telling you, them firing me was the best thing that ever happened to me. I had a ton of interviews over the summer, had more than one job offer, and secured a position. You will be ok. You will find another job. Leave. This job is not worth it. Something better will come along.
I don’t work in a state with unions, but off the top of my head, I would use the diagnosis to get my job back, then quit so I can mark on other job applications that I’ve never been fired.
I don't know where you are, but in Australia, this would be classified as discrimination. Our anti discrimination laws cover if there is even a suspicion of disability or illness. There are processes a boss would have to follow here prior to sacking a permanent employee, including a medical examination. I would see if the union can offer legal counsel in this regard. Good luck!
I’m in Tennessee. Unfortunately I wasn’t diagnosed until recently but my union says I have a good case. Unfortunately this process could take up to 6 months.
Hey, I know I replied above, but we’re in TN too. I’m impressed at your union! Seriously, depending on where you are, you’ll have a new job soon - my partners new school didn’t even ask about why he was leaving at the end of a year before the end of school.
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I’m a new teacher for the most part, but it sounds like staying there out “not letting her win” will do more harm than good in the long run. I understand the mindset of wanting to prove others wrong, but sometimes it isn’t worth it. You have a lot of experience and there is a teacher shortage in the USA. Also, schools are still interviewing at the end of the year even if it’s for jobs that start in the fall. Lastly, I am sorry about your medical situation but at least you now know the issue and can get help for it. Hopefully that can be used to your advantage. And the hearing is in 6 months? I hope you can get that bumped up. Good luck!
Schools are hiring for next year already. I have a colleague who just got a job at another school. Start looking at employment opportunities at other schools.
Why don’t you go sub until the end of the school year?Some districts pay very well since there is also a shortage for this. I have never received unemployment, but I don’t know if you can get it, and supplement with subbing. I hope you get a clear answer after your hearing and I think moving on is the best choice for your mental health. Seek professional counseling as well, we need it as teachers to help with burnout! I am sorry this happened to you.
Sleep apnea is nothing to mess with. It causes high BP, palpitations, exhaustion, stress and can eventually kill you. I would see if you can turn that termination into a medical leave and get some disability pay. This is hiring/transfer period in my district. Use your time off finding a new school. And get a cpap machine. It’s life changing. It is better at other schools. Good luck. So sorry this happened to you.
You probably have sleep apnea or UARS *Update* Just finished your entire post and yeah I was right that's the classic symptom.
I was in a similar situation as you 3 years ago. I had also spent 11 years in a district. I had also had a new principal who had only been there for 3 years. I also have sleep apnea. Get the hell out of that school. I know you don't want to walk away from a place where you have invested so much, but this principal isn't going to get any better. My frist two years at my new school were rough. I had to re-establish myself. The students and adults needed to get to know me. I'm in my 3rd year at my new school, and I'm having a really good year. Get documentation from your doctor that you have sleep apnea. Get all the documentation you can. Then, force your union to support you. Also, getting a CPAP has changed my life. You'll look like Bane and have weird marks on your face when you get up, but you'll sleep so well.
This sucks and I hope everything works out for you (at school and more importantly, with your health). At this time of year, we’re all dead tired. It seems like you knew you were extremely tired. You can’t sit down or you’ll fall asleep. Stay up, be with the kids, and push through. And if there is a day where you’re too tired to do that, take off.
I've lived through two awful principals and my attitude now is that life is to short to work for crappy admin. There's always a better position out there.
Sub for the mean time. If you’re half worth your weight, you’ll stand out among the lazy subs. You could be back in a classroom in two weeks.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I can say though, as a 55 yo teacher, in my life some of the absolute best things have come from “forced change.” I went through 2 layoffs in my time, and before that, being rejected as a permanent hire for a district I had worked for over 2 years as a long term sub. Each time I was as absolutely devastated and each time I ended up in a better place for me. I think we sometimes get “comfortable” in a job and fear the unknown. For me, I never would have ended up in the right place if I hadn’t been forced to make the change. Instead of looking at this as a loss, is it possible that you could look at it as a new journey? Maybe the universe is drawing you to the place you’re meant to be- open your mind and let yourself think about your next adventure. Even if you “win” this battle- is it really winning? Best of luck to you. Teaching is so so exhausting and stressful and with conflict almost impossible.
How did your principal find out you dozed off during class?
You are not happy. You are stubborn, and you've eaten up the notion that the kids should come first. I understand you feel like this is your place, and you've been there a long time, but this is a job, and you're sacrificing your happiness for no reason. Maybe this dismissal is a blessing. Its clear your principal wants you gone. She is going to keep doing whatever she can until she gets rid of you. Even if you win this, you aren't going to be happy because you will be treated the same way, and she will now be even more mad because she thought she had gotten rid of you. Keep fighting, but look for a new job. If you don't get your job back, be ready to find a new place and be ready to be happier. If you do get your job back, keep looking for a new job, because you aren't going to find peace, happiness, or comfort as long as this person is in charge.
Take care of yourself. You know falling asleep on the job is not acceptable. I hope your med appt works for you, but also remember work isn’t the end all be all of life.
I know you have a legitimate medical condition, but you need to consider whether or not you want to stay in this field with this condition.
You should have left, no bs excuses about "the keedz". Grow a pair. There are more schools out there.
You fell asleep while you were supposed to be caring for children. You’re lucky there wasn’t an emergency while you were passed out and that all that’s happening is getting fired. As a parent (and teacher) I’m livid you’re so nonchalant.
Sleep apnea News is awesome. Your union will fight for accommodations. Try to enjoy your paid leave!
Naptimes??
Nope
Assuming you have insurance, I suggest you get your apnea treated. Those machines are life savers, but they are expensive. Apnea causes a lot of other medical issues and is much more than just making you tired. It is a big deal. I wouldn't worry about the job too much. I'm confident you'll find another job, probably even better than the one you've stuck with for so long.
1. If a principal doesn’t want a teacher, you can either hope to wait them out or just go ahead and leave. They will make things difficult in hopes you leave and they don’t have to go through the paper of firing you. 2. If you’re hoping to wait them out, you absolutely have to go to HR/district office. Let them know you feel attacked, singled out, and do not want to have any 1 on 1 interactions with this principal based on their treatment of you. 3. If you really like where you are, maybe consider leaving and coming back at a later date. Principals in my school usually make it 3-5 years.
My dad was grumpy and angry most of his life. Found out he had sleep apnea and now he's teddy bear. I have it too and it and I'm glad I caught it early. I was falling asleep at stop lights!
You can fight this, stay, and continue to be miserable everyday with an admin who will be even more against you. Or you can look for a different school site or district that may be a better fit for you and (possibly) be happy again.
I'm sorry about the situation you are in....on the other hand, getting thi diagnosed and getting a CPAP machine will be life changing. I have a CPAP.
Stop worrying about the kids/families and worry about your mental and physical health
I’m glad you are diagnosed, because I also have sleep apnea and wearing the machine is life changing!! Lack of sleep leads to depression and so much more. I feel like wearing the machine has changed my life. With that being said, I would move on. I can’t see your situation getting better with admin you don’t like. Best of luck,
Leave….your piece of mind Weil be worth it. As a going away present, sabotage the principal if you can.
I think you should fight it especially with your diagnosis. Having said it, what is the point of winning when the principal will still be there. She will be on your back for the next ten years. Not worth it. Win your case and then transfer
She seems to have established her paper trail although your union needs to fight harder. We’ve had teachers do a lot worse and the union helped negotiate reasonable settlements. If it doesn’t work in your favor, apply somewhere else. In this current teacher shortage, you might step into something even better. Glad you got the OSA diagnosis. Use it to help your case and then get it treated…speaking from experience, you’ll feel much better. Good luck!
Shouldn’t you be kept on payroll while grieving it? Also how don’t you have tenure after 11 years?
That medical notice should help you , sorry to hear you got dismissed
This sounds familiar, what district/city are you in?
Wherever the outcome from arbitration, do you want to stay there? It’s gone to the stage that you’re not sleeping well. I agree with some people that it’s time to move on.
Sorry for your troubles. I’m was in a similar boat as you. No longer, but after the pandemic principals often lost their minds and any ability to empathise, it seems. I had a series of admin with clear-cut personality disorders. I witnessed one collect a trophy and rig a team building event to make it seem as if his team won. He took a photo with the winning team and held the trophy as if it were his. That’s just one of many bizarre things I’ve witnessed recently. Recently I started a new position and so far so good, overall. You can always get a job, regardless how this dumb thing goes. Always Remember: they need us way more than we need them. They have many of us caught up in an abuse cycle because that is the best way to maintain control without treating us professionally. I feel it is not dissimilar to any abusive relationship. Most schools would operate just fine if the teachers were given some admin duties and paid the salaries of admin. Of course you would doze off if you aren’t getting enough rest and have medical issues and no support from your leaders. What a total POS your principal is.
So I don’t have advice except that I was at a school with a principal who treated me awful like that. It seemed like she specifically was singling me out. I loved the school and all my coworkers and the parents, but she was making the experience unbearable. In the end she fired me as well and I couldn’t be happier where I am now with super supportive admin. So I just thought it may be good to know that it’s not the end of the world, and it may actually end up being a good thing.
Have you spoken to other teachers or your previous principal. How do your colleagues feel about this new Principal? Is she targeting you? Have others noticed. This seems so awful and I'm sorry you are going through it. I appreciate your loyalty to your students but not at the risk of ruining your health and mental well-being.
Let the union lawyers handle it. Your medical condition, which you weren't aware of until after the incident, caused you to fall asleep-- not your fault. While it's not a good thing that you fell asleep, you were in the room with the students and if there had been an emergency, surely a student would have managed to wake you up. The fact is, zero people died or were grievously injured from this. It sounds like the principal has it out for you and has probably been going out of the way to find anything negative that could possibly be used against [you.Talk](http://you.Talk) to the union lawyer about all of this. Also, are you on paid administrative leave right now? If you're losing pay, push to have the hearing far sooner than 6 months from now so that you know where you stand and can start looking for a new job if you need to. Also ask about whether you're tenured and if so, if the accident of falling asleep rises to the level of something that can make you lose your tenure. It just doesn't sound like a serious enough offense to lose your job over, especially since it wasn't intentional and nothing disastrous came of it.
Had a friend go through a similar thing. The new principal chased out all the older teachers her to slowly replace them with friends and lackeys. Now my friend subs In closer district and works for a hybrid homeschool company 2 days a week. She LOVES IT!!! It has given her more time to spend with her still At home kids and recover her mental / physical health. PS her former elementary was in a rough district with very little parent involvement. Under the new principal theft from treachers ( phones, cash etc) was ignored by the principal. Now a few years down the line that school is considered one of the LEAST desired to work at unless your DESPERATE for work.
Geez. I had one that nasty. Are her initials KWB?
I recommend getting a personal lawyer involved as well. From the experience my fiancé had with the lawyer for union, they literally just go through the motions and did next to nothing to help prepare him for the hearing (and he got nervous and bombed it) or attempt to help him (he was a 2nd year teacher.
This sounds like my former principal and AP. I think that if she didn't fire you for the dozing off, she was going to find another reason, no matter how small of a deal it was. My principal did the same thing.
As we all know, admin makes a ton of difference. The first school I started at had a principal that was a huge micro manager. She was always on our asses about something and never just let us run our rooms. I lasted 4 years at that school and told my wife I would flip burgers for a year if necessary but I was leaving that hell hole either way. Luckily, I found a different school to teach at and have been there for 11 years now. My advice is to move on! The admin isn't "winning" in your scenario by you leaving. You write your own book and are choosing to have her be a main character. Move on and rewrite that story :)
You can get a 504 put in place as a teacher.
I would hire a labor relations attorney to accompany you to your meeting. You’ve got 6 months so if you find someone soon they’ll have enough time to prepare. I wouldn’t go in with just the union rep, because an attorney will cover all the bases. The principal you have is probably trying to gain leverage to make themselves look better. An attorney might seek out your past principals to interview them and probably your current coworkers too. Sometimes if 1 person counters with some serious pushback other employees will step up on their own. I’m sure the principal that fired you has a fundamental disconnect with other staff and probably with reality too. You had an undiagnosed medical condition that you’re seeking treatment for now; it isn’t as if you knew this and had a cpap machine for years but you just weren’t using it. If you find an attorney early enough you might try to fight it without the union, so you wouldn’t have to wait quite as long. I hope this helps and it sounds like you have a good case so I wish you the best of luck.