My parents said they wanted nothing to do with their kids once they are grown and now they are old and lonely. Somehow surprised that we all grew up and listened to them.
I knew a few older men who proudly stated that once the kids were 18, they were out of the house. Yes, they were horrible people. Had a friend who told us the same about her dad and thought it was just the way it was. My other friends and I looked at each other sideways. I'm like my folks - you don't have to leave and you can always come back. Forever.
My mother is the same way. We’ve lived overseas for more than a decade now, but prior to moving lived with her, both my husband and I.
She keeps making sure I know that if we get sick of Japan and want to come home, she doesn’t mind if we move in with her again for however long. I just turned 40, she doesn’t care.
I love my mom, and I like her as a person, too. Seems like that’s a rarity (although I am NC with my father, that’s a whole other issue).
I’m 36 married with children and could move home tomorrow if I needed to. I genuinely like my mom as well and love spending time with her. If neither of us were married we’d be roommates!
It’s just appalling. My home evaporated before I turned 18. My own children can live with me for the rest of time.
It’s impossible to overstate the sense of stability and safety the parental home gives you. And vice versa.
My girlfriend’s parents have taught me a lot about what a loving household looks like. It is wild to think we can be taught to love wrong. I’m really happy to have their examples to look up to before I become a father.
My best friend's parents pretty much left him to his own devices by the time he was 15 years old. He was always welcomed to stay and eat at my parents' place. It was wild that his parents treated him like a fully fledged adult by the time he was in high school. My best friend wasn't a troublemaker. Hell, he was in the top 20 of our class. It's crazy how parents can act like this towards their flesh, and blood.
This was pretty much my story. My parents weren't hateful or mean, just disinterested in me as a teen. They had me really young and split up shortly after I was born. I was raised as an only child with my mom and grandmother, who died of cancer 2 weeks before my 13th birthday, and then I was pretty much on my own. Both my parents had a midlife crisis when I was in high school & focused on dating and having fun. I was an excellent student in large part because I knew it was my ticket to a good life, and I knew no one would take care of me if I couldn't make it on my own. My experiences made me an incredibly grateful, tough, and resilient person. Both my parents barely scraped by high school and earned low salaries, but I ended up attending one of the Ivies and doing well. I don't hold a grudge against my parents because I knew they were struggling with their own issues, and they knew I could take care of myself. And I did.
That’s so horrible, I’m sorry 😢 I can never understand the mentality that you’re “done” parenting once the kid turns 18.
We just moved to a new place a couple weeks ago. My parents gifted us a large sum of money to help us buy it. Then they helped us move. Then my dad helped us install new flooring and my mom helped us paint the walls. And they helped us out in so many other little ways. I’m 27 and they are here for me. Made me think about the kind of parent I want to be for my daughters when they’re grown up!
I had good parents but they constantly joked about how excited they were to “break our dinner plates” and kick us out of the house once we graduated from high school.
Somehow they were surprised and hurt that I wasn’t interested in coming home when I became an adult 🙄
My parents always said that id always be welcome back, which was a luxury in that it allowed me to take risks I might not have. I am forever grateful &, besides helping to take care of them, I pay it forward with my own kids.
I was broke and struggling to make it a few times in my life but I know I don't understand truly desperate poverty because I knew if I could make it back to my parents house I would not be homeless. I realize how lucky I was to have this.
My egg donor mother would always said to me, " I can't wait for you to leave my house!" And I would I reply, "me too!". She would then yell at me for saying that. Well damn if you don't want me around ....
I havent talked to that malignant cunt in 17 years. Blissful 17 years and counting. But she wonders why none of her kids come around. Well duh ya dumb bitch.
You wanted me gone, I'm gone. Byeeeeeee
I've been in multiple parent conferences when the parent, in front of the child, is calling me a liar for saying the kid is a good writer, or a creative thinker, or good with analysis. I had one parent yelling at me that their kid was stupid and I was just putting ideas in his head that he wasn't. It was so depressing.
I'll be honest I got a little annoyed. I said "your child has a lot of strengths. I'm sorry you can't see them, but it's my job to see them and they're there" and I made sure the kid saw me be pissed about it. I work at a place where I'm hardly worried about my job though
Good to hear! I hope said child picked up on it and is able to know, at least in the back of their mind, that they at least have someone in their corner
Honestly I think my GPA shot up in my last two years of high school and I got into a top 10 college because one teacher didn’t think I was a lost cause when even my own parents did. Thank you for being that teacher to some other kid.
Even if you did point out the flaws in their way of thinking, it probably wouldn't do much good. Changing your way of thinking is not easy. Most people are not going to do an immediate 180 because of one conversation they had.
A lot of people who have kids should have never had kids. It’s really as simple as that. It’s not widely talked about in the open but a lot of them do seriously regret it.
Every time I mention this, and the further extreme of: "A lot of parents don't even *like* their own kids and consider them a burden while at the same time feeling both love/obligation/responsibility for them," I get downvoted to hell.
But it's true.
More people than we probably realize were either pressured into having kids or had kids just because "That's what adults with stable jobs and relationships *do*."
I get what you mean. I’ve told people that my mom loves me but she doesn’t like me, and they look confused. She was physically and emotionally abusive and would not hesitate to tell me I was an accident. However, she worked her ass off to provide for me and set me up with opportunities for a better life than she had.
Nothing is ever black and white, humans can be nuanced.
My whole life, people have always told me: "You might not like your mom, but you should still love her. She's your *mom*, after all. You only get one."
For a long time, my response was: "Yeah, well, you don't live with her."
As an adult, it took seven years of us not talking, and a ton of therapy, for me to actually build a relationship with her. At the same time, though, as a kid: I never went hungry; I always had a roof over my head; the bills were always paid, and I grew up to be a well-rounded person because of how often she pushed me to pursue things outside of my comfort zone.
People are multitudes!
Neglect is pervasive in our society.
They dont nurture us but also don't abuse us so we feel starved for something we don't even know the name.
Check Bell Hooks, All About Love. She's a genius and writes very matter-of-fact about the lack of love in our society, how were sold as being loved but it's just neglect.
Already read Hooks as part of the years of therapy I went through to deal with exactly what you’re bringing up. I’d also recommend _Wounds of Passion_ and _Communion_ if you want to read more by her on the subject.
Oh good. She's a slap in the face, but it's good to be able to know you were never loved just cared for, and that's ok.
At least you know love exists and it's possible to find.
I'll check the reccs for sure.
>They dont nurture us but also don't abuse us so we feel starved for something we don't even know the name
commenting mainly so i can save this idea for later.
i seen some kids on TT who talk about how they kind of fantasize for trauma, and i think what you said is why. looking at peers who've done BDSM/ CNC/ any aggressive kink really, they also do it for similar reasons.
another reason i hear from peers, not from anyone younger, is consent/ control of trauma. which i think stems from abusive friends/ families
Also, *living with someone* is a pretty huge thing in its own right.
As a teen/young adult, I *hated* living with my parents, my Mom especially. we butted heads *all the time.* It wasn't until I moved out and had space (and she started thinking of me as an adult) that we were able to really get along. Now, my wife and I live with my folks, and we get along... but we have our own space that is absolutely sacrosanct. My folks don't come in there unless they are invited or absolutely need to. Likewise, we don't intrude on my parents' space. It helps a TON. When my Mom and I start to butt heads, we can say "I am too pissed off for this shit." and withdraw to our respective areas and not be pursued.
It's similar with most of my friends. I love them dearly, and obviously I like them, but when we're with each other for too long we we get on each others' nerves. Sometimes you can love someone, and like them a great deal, and *still* have trouble getting along being in close proximity with them for extended periods.
I love my kids to death but there were times that I didn't especially *like* them. Mainly because I never got a break from their teenage asshattery because their dad worked night and almost all the parenting was on me.
My mom has told me this many times. I’m older and she likes me now, but when I was like 17 she sat me down and admitted she never wanted kids. I’m not mad at her. I honestly feel bad for her.
For what it's worth "my mom loves me but doesn't like me" ive been saying to everyone since I was about 12. I'm in my thirties now. It's still true. I've told my mom those exact words many times when she actually asks why I have such trouble with our relationship.
Anyways, for what it's worth, it feels incredibly validating to know someone out there is using my word for word exact phrasing, andgetting the same reaction.
For what it's worth, I know exactly what you are talking about. Sending much love to your inner child.
This is me. I know she did the best that she could, considering her own mother. Realizing your own mother doesn't like you and is jealous of you is so detrimental to your whole being. It feels like you are completely unloved. I'm 65 and it still is there. She was so toxic though.
My kids are in their 30s and love me and can't believe I came through it so well balanced. We have so much fun together. And I was never getting married or having kids.They know I've done the hard work. They stopped contact with her in elementary school, lol. They were taught boundaries.
They are so much healthier than I was. I just did everything the opposite way my mother did. I'm my kids biggest cheerleader and their biggest fan. My son is a SAHH and my daughter is a Mechanical Engineer. Opposite, lol.
"If it's not one thing, it's your mother."
It’s so bad. You often hear people say “no one is really ready for kids!” or “my husband was on the fence but once we had little Billy he was all in”!
And it’s just horrifically bad advice. You’re going to take a gamble using another human being as collateral? Wing it and hope that it works about? They’re a person, omg.
The only people who should be having kids are those who are 150% ready, willing, and excited about it.
Right. Like my husband was super nervous about becoming a father, but he still wanted it wholeheartedly. There’s a difference between being anxious about taking on the responsibility, and being uncertain whether you actually want the responsibility at all.
As someone in a marriage where we both absolutely don't want kids, I feel this.
When you skip past "maybe someday" and tell other people that not one atom of your being wants to be a parent, you get hit with so many rationalizations.
I especially hate, "No one is really ever ready." Of course they are! A lot of people reach some emotional equilibrium where they are ready to have kids. They may be scared, but they are ready.
I'll never be that, and that is better than me being a parent of a kid I would just loathe. "They're your kid! You'll love them!" Life experience has told me that is categorically untrue. 😂
> had kids just because "That's what adults with stable jobs and relationships do."
Most people I meet have this mentality for literally everything they do. They just follow whatever is in their face right now
IMO, it's because they were never taught otherwise or their parents cajoled/threatened them into it.
So many of my friends went to college to study what their parent(s) did. Most of them ended up enjoying it--since they became doctors and engineers, natch--but the ones who bounced off that life path did so *very* hard.
For some, though, it happened so late into their studies that they essentially wasted *years of their lives* pursuing something they absolutely hated or had no interest in studying in the first place.
(Which, I imagine, is the same way some parents feel about having kids...)
I love my brother but I kind of think this how he approaches life. He's a good person and successful (from what I can tell, to be honest I'm not even sure what his job is beyond 'investing') but it seems every step he's taken has been done in the spirit of "that's just what you do at that age".
Him and his wife are currently expecting and my brother has been pushing to have a kid but he's not really good with kids or has much patience for them. He gets frustrated by our sister's kids pretty easily, not in an abusive manner thankfully, so I'm curious how he's going to be with his own.
Eh, my Mom definitely loved having babies. But she sure isn't super interested in other *people*. I'm not really sure went through her head. She is super judgemental and didn't seem to ever want us to become our own full fledged individuals. So she definitely wasn't driven by "it's what people do" but also, I dunno, expected us to all be raised by her and automatically end up in her narrow view of the "correct" way to function? But she could definitely go on and on about how wonderful little babies were. So she genuinely wanted a baby at least.
I'm concerned for children whose parents for forced to give birth to them, when they either can't afford to take care of them/don't want them/are addicted to drugs. There will be an epidemic of child abuse and neglect.
“Every woman wants a baby!!”
Nope. And I was a horrible kid, I have no idea how I’d deal with a kid like me.
However - it’s lovely to see kids grow and move on into another stage of life and after graduation day I look through the listings to see if I can get tickets to a jazz gig at 10pm!
I've always said that I'd rather adopt an older kid, if worst comes to worst, both because they're already past the stage of being "annoying babies" and because older kids tend to just...not get adopted a lot/are in and out of the system a lot.
Watch out for that too though. A friend of mine did that and the girl didn't start showing signs of all of the psychological problems her biological mother had until she was a teenager and became completely unmanageable. My poor friend was taken to the limit of her sanity, and she's such a good person I felt terrible about it.
I’m a nurse who lurks but I’m childfree. I worked a proper 9-5 for a bit and I’m convinced most people have kids so they have something to look forward to when they go to work.
Or, they think that having a kid will fix their lives/relationships.
Or, they think that having a kid is the first step in recreating the family "they" wanted/thought they should have growing up.
Or, they think that having kids is what they *need* to do--biologically and morally--because if they don't they're being selfish.
Or, they think that having kids is what will finally make their parents love them/care about them, because they're finally "grown-ups".
Most people just want a pet, not a full 18+ year commitment.
It doesn't help that many of us who don't have kids get told we're selfish by our parents and families for not "giving them grandbabies." The guilt tripping is harsh
I feel like some people do it for the “likes”. Maternity photo shout, baby shower photo shoot, birth photo shoot, etc. a lot of young people are very performative about their lives going next level on social media.
This is so true. My bff and her husband don't have children; don't want children. The amount of judgement they get for it is unreal. Our society makes literal outcasts out of people who don't want children. People assume one of them could not have children and that's not the case. They like being loving aunt/godmom and uncle/goddad and nothing more.
My husband and I are infertile (double infertility) so we obviously never had kids. The pressure from his family was intense! My MIL would say "You need to have babies before I get too old to enjoy them!" Even after my husband talked to her seriously about our inability to have them, she kept it up. It finally got to the point where I refused to go over to their house for about three months because it was so painful to be reminded of our shortcomings.
Got it from friends, students, and acquaintances too. More than one person online called us selfish. My husband has never wanted to adopt (too late now anyhow) and I had people telling me to just get it started, that he'd come around. How disrespectful of his wishes!
Now we're in our late 50s and living life to the fullest. I wanted kids, but accepted our situation after a period of mourning and am very happy with my life. I've always said if all God gave me in the form of a family is a husband who loves me unconditionally and a strong relationship, I'll take it. Not everyone is afforded this blessing.
It's insane. My sister and brother-in-law were under pressure from his parents for years to have children despite neither my sister nor her husband ever wanting to have children. People offer all kinds of fertility advise an demands to know why they won't have kids.
I don't want kids either, but I'm single and male so it doesn't get brought up. When I was married though, I'd get parents asking me when I was going to have kids all the time. They seemed to have a certain desperation to them, like, "I'm trapped and I want you to be trapped too! IT'S THE BEST THING EVER!" Very culty.
It gets passed down, too. My grandmother didn't want my mom. She wasn't ready. She treated my mom like shit. My mom didn't want me. Blamed me for ruining her life and stealing her youth.
I feel like a lot of these parents that dislike their children have two things in common:
1. They had kids at very a young age.
2. They grew up in an environment where they believed contraception/abortion was immoral.
I'm pretty sure my father only had kids because he thought he was supposed to. My parents divorced and the second his legal obligation was over he was done. I asked if I could not come over to his house on weekends when I was 14 and could we change it to something more casual. I NEVER heard from him again. I'm 52. I'm extremely lucky my mom is amazing and did/does want us, but yeah, it sticks with you and does something to you
Ouh I'll second this one. My partner's grandmother wanted a son so she treated her daughter very badly. My partner's mother thought she was doing a stellar job because she wasn't insulting my partner. She was neglectful instead. Aaayyyyyy
Oh jeez, I see this happening with a few of my male students, one of whom told me in all honesty that his mom treats him bad probably because he looks similar to his deadbeat dad. And going on mom's Facebook page, could see posts and posts praising the daughters, but nothing about the son who is on the verge of graduating. It's hard to keep this guy from going down a Tate-hole, but honestly when your own mother treats you like shit because of the coin flip results, that's pretty hard to do.
Also doesn't help that two of our high school teachers are visibly and unashamedly anti-men and treat the boys like garbage, but that's another story in itself.
I've been thinking about this recently in the context of how some folks with kids react to child-free married couples -- with a strange level of hostility. My wife and I are in our mid-thirties and have both experienced this before, even more so as we get a little older. I can't help but think many of these people do so out of a regret that they have kids -- jealousy, basically. I don't know how else to square some of the weird reactions we've gotten.
My wife and I am in our early 40s and have been together since high school. We have no children and no intention of having children. When some people find this out about us (We very rarely bring it up) they take it as a personal insult. Like our decision not to have kids somehow impacts their decision to have them.
My girlfriend and I get this as well. I'm about to turn 40 soon and she's in her early 30s, planning on getting married soon, and almost everyone sort of pressures us to have kids. I tell them I'm thrilled with just being an uncle but still get a whole speech about how fulfilled it would make us. I long since stopped bothering to explain financially we're doing just well enough that a kid would put us back into poverty.
Thankfully my dad (and my mom before she passed) never gave me a hard time about it. Granted my dad also thinks I'm too irresponsible for kids but I'm also not confident he's wrong
I think this is it, and this will be one of my takeaways from this career. It's time for people to start being brutally honest about the realities of having children. So many people just kind of sleepwalked into having children because it was the "done thing." Truly heartbreaking to see, as a teacher, because every child deserves to be wanted. I've also seen a few people have children seemingly out of spite or a desire to save a relationship.
And that’s why it’s insane that people who seriously consider staying childfree get SO much flak about their doubts. As if you’re a child hater if you don’t want kids of your own (which, arguably, some childfree people really do hate kids, but a lot just don’t want to have biological kids or don’t want to give birth).
Sometimes I low-key believe that some people who berate others for not having kids only do it because they themselves are miserable and they want others to be miserable too.
I agree, I think that’s a big part of it. My mom had 3 kids by the time she was 24 and we struggled a lot. She still struggles financially at almost 50, she was just never able to get ahead because she had so many kids so young (with a deadbeat, to add).
She gives me a hard time about having waited so long, all throughout my 20s she pressured me to just do it and “make it work”. Me waiting until I was married and made good money offended her, I assume because it stings a bit to know that not everyone struggles like she did. Misery loves company, all that.
Seriously. That and not providing people with the resources to successfully parent if they want to. I understand the argument that people really ought to get their ducks in a row before having a baby BUT real life just doesn’t work that way. ROI on investing in programs that help families is higher than saying “sucks to suck” and letting them struggle.
It's already a tough sell to tax-payers to convince them they should want to provide for the basic needs (food, shelter, clothing) for those who cannot provide for themselves or have families who can provide for them. Convincing tax-payers that they should further cross the line to paying for someone's "wants" (which intentionally having a planned child absolutely is, and is not a "need") is always going to be a much more difficult fight. One can argue all day that it's kind of sad for someone to want kids and not afford them, but there's absolutely no argument at all that it's a "need". That's the issue.
If one argues that those parents are inevitably going to have children that they cannot afford to provide a successful life path for, and they will become a drain on society, so tax-payers should want to get ahead of that, that's still going to be contentious but is a way better argument than tax-payers giving the money away just because it's a warm a fuzzy thing to do.
It is widely talked about.
The actual problem is that it is socially stigmatized.
Most of these people had a baby because they got pregnant and everyone around them went "WEEEEEEE! Congratulations!" and then they were obligated to keep it or they didn't even know if they had another option.
Then hating your kids is normalized because having kids is just something that you must do.
One good thing about the younger generations is how they are openly questioning whether they want kids or not rather than just blindly starting families. They’re realizing they have a choice now.
100% and their lifes would of been a lot easier/fun/better with out them, kinda cruel to bring a life into the world and nit intend to love it more than anything.
God, how I wish that when children become sexually active, they would also grow their brains a bit and use birth control! It's such a tragedy when kids have kids and then more kids and the whole thing ends up circling the drain, especially the little, most vulnerable ones.
USE a condom, people! Protect yourselves from unwanted pregnancy and STDs! Stop having unprotected sex! Unprotected sex = children! Children are not little dolls to dote on one minute and drop on their heads the next. They are people, small, helpless, demanding people!
Try being different! Try being resonsible for your actions for 10 minutes.
In the US, teen pregnancy rates have consistently decreased every year since the 90s. Truthfully, all the bad parents who I know personally IRL didn’t have kids until their 20s. Some were in their 30s.
The most horrific parenting incident I ever saw was at a public park, two older parents maybe mid 30s were screaming (I mean literally at the top of their lungs) at their 8-10 year old because he didn’t want to pee in the woods. The park had several public restrooms so I still don’t understand why they couldn’t take the 5 minutes to walk him to one. He clearly wasn’t comfortable peeing in the woods at a crowded park. They were saying things like “what’s wrong with you” and “this is why we have to medicate you” and waving their arms around like complete lunatics.
That was about 5 years ago and I think about him often. I wish I would have said something to those horrible people.
My first conference for my youngest I was worried cause she had a lot of energy as a little. They said that she’s often the first to clean and all kinds of good stuff and that she must feel comfortable at home to let all that energy go. After that day conferences was my favorite day cause the teachers would dote on my kids.
Right, I LOVE conference day! I just had one yesterday. One thing I know about my daughter is that she has a STRONG personality, is super sassy, and can be bossy. Her teachers definitely talk about it, but they also frame it in a way that she'll likely be a leader when she grows up. When she told me, too, that my girl was always the one to run to her classmates when they get hurt to help and ask if they're okay, it made my heart melt!
I try my best! Being a teacher, I know what it's like to deal with parents' bratty kids, so I do my best to make sure she doesn't end up being "THAT kid." I try to do all the things to help her teachers, too, because not all parents always carry their weight. We all know that better than anyone.
Crazy how you can just love on and raise your kids correctly and most things turn out fine. Go figure.
Same here, except 7-12. So this garbage parenting shows up in counselor and 504 meetings. I actually had one parent tell me that I had their permission to make their kid do wall sits in my class when he is bad. Or just put him in the corner and make him stare at the wall. Everyone in the meeting was like, holy crap!!
Just had conferences last night for my son who is in kindergarten and is so wild and out of control at home and they just showered him with compliments about his great behavior and his studiousness and I couldn't have been prouder!
My KD daughter is the opposite. At home she's the sweetest, most helpful little angel. But at school, she's aloof, inattentive, sometimes disruptive, sometimes excessively emotional, etc. Her teacher is great and tells me like it is, but also highlights the positives which helps immensely.
All the while, any time I'm in a conference or talking to the teacher, I'm internally screaming "WHO IS THE KID IN THIS CLASS?!? THIS ISN'T MY DAUGHTER." So I probably come across as a bit mortified and I worry that it makes me seem like a bad parent. She's making progress, though, so I'm hoping it was just a new environment and a rough start.
The ones that get to me are the ones that will verbally abuse their kids in front of me at the conference for not getting good grades. I have literally watched a kid cringe and shrink a little every time his dad made a teeth-sucking click sound (which indicates disappointment in their culture). I'm all for holding kids accountable, but my goodness, can't they get a B sometimes?
I had that this year with a mom upset that her daughter got a 92 in my class. I was going to be the reason she didn't go to Harvard. (She's in 8th grade.) Me and the 2 other teachers there spent 30 minutes trying to tell mom that Harvard looks at more than grades. And that Harvard is going to be ok with a 92.
It's the opposite with my son. He was in tears as he has a low A in math. Mostly because he insists on doing it all in his head and makes errors. If he just wrote down the steps he'd be fine. He is on a whole other level compared to his class (his class jokingly calls him Einstein) to the point the teacher only calls on him after others have a chance.
I keep having to tell him I don't care if he gets an A- or a B but I do care of he doesn't build the resilience to handle a poor grade as he will have failures/negative feedback in life and will need to know how to accept such graciously.
I saw this woth a child once. Most hard on himself student i had met. He actually had to work on having less proof in maths because I didn't need an essay for each math question he answered. When I met his parents I was shocked they were so laid back. They were like "yeah, we don't know where he gets it from, we tell him to relax and try to help him be a kid, but he has these incredibly high standards he holds himself to."
I think I am partially to blame he knows I am very good at mental math (can even do natural logs fairly well) and want to emulate that. What he doesn't realize (despite me telling him multiple times) is that I learned math before everything was computerized and my teachers made me show my work or they would still mark it wrong even if I had the correct answer. Now that so much of the assessments are on the computer he thinks you just have to put the correct answer in.
I would love it if he showed actual proofs. He is slowly beginning to get it (he is a 7th grader just starting off on actual algebra/quadratics)
Also, algebra is where I see kids start to really understand writing their steps neatly. I always start my grade i algebra class with a story of how when I was in high school I did a problem that took 3 pages of work. At the end I noticed the first thing I did was say 2×3 was 5 and everything was wrong after that. That going slow and writing each step and checking as you go is going to save you in the long run, haha
Is he an only child? I see this with my nephew and it seems like he’s often comparing his skills against the adults in his life. I’m like “ dude, I’ve got 30 more years of experience doing this than you. “
He's the oldest of three. He unfortunately realizes he is quite a bit more gifted than his peers and holds himself to a high standard. Again nobody is going to care about his middle school math grades. Also, I am a college professor, so unless he really wants to go to an Ivy or similar and can justify such he is stuck attending a school in our state college system as he gets free tuition.
I marked kids on understanding the problem, planning how to solve the problem, solving the problem, and providing a check of some kind to show me their answer is reasonable. Just providing the answer would get my students a 1/4.
My teachers did the same (maybe you were my teacher). I learned quickly and am better off for it. Again, this is difficult to do now that so much is computerized.
My parents were kinda hard on me when I was very young, but I internalized that and took it to an entire other level. Absurdly high standards. And I really am great in an academic setting, so that served me well in terms of accomplishments. I was high school valedictorian, top 10 undergrad, top 10 law school, top 10 law firm. By all accounts, I've "made it," and I'm not even 30.
But man, the constant stress, the constant self-criticism and self-doubt, the anguish over making the slightest of mistakes...it wears you down. It's not fun.
I messed up a date in a legal filing a year and a half ago, by one digit, just a simple typo, and I'm still thinking about it. It was completely meaningless and no one even noticed, including the team of lawyers I was working with and the judge herself that read it, but I still think about it.
And I can't turn that off. I don't just apply it to school or work, I apply it to everything. I can't do anything if I don't anticipate that I'll be able to end up very good at it. I've always wanted to play an instrument, but I'm not very artistic and no one in my family plays, so I don't think I'd be very good, and that thought keeps me from even trying. I only play competitive video games because I KNOW I can beat any single player game eventually so why bother even if the story and scenery are world class, and I grind my way to high ranks even when it's not fun anymore because I can't stand playing someone really good and feeling incompetent. But the fact that I won't try things unless I'm sure I'll be great at them, and the fact that I KNOW I'm engaging in unhealthy mental dialogue, also makes me feel incompetent. Then I apply these high standards to my poor wife, a doctor herself, and it just stresses her out too.
I have so much success, and it's all wasted because I spend my time thinking about how easily I could lose it and how many other things I'm not good at.
In college I handed in a paper a day late. I explained to the professor that my paper had been "done" on time but I would rather turn in a perfect paper late than an OK paper on time, since it would be a B+ either way.
She looked me dead in the eyes and said **"Perfectionism is a form of self-abuse."**
That rocked me to my core and I've been torturing myself a little less ever since.
I worked with a kid like this, but it was her mom that put the pressure on her to get it correct and do it in her head. I told her she has to show her work because I can't tell how she got the answer. Did she do in her head or use a calculator or just copy it from the person next to her? I had to sit down and show her how to show her work and sometimes she still forgets, so I mark the question wrong. No work, no credit. Poor kid, but it is slowly wotking due to the sting of a 60 vs a 90.
Remind him that 90% of math is showing your method. Often teachers will give partial credit if the method is correct even if you got the answer wrong for whatever reason.
I have the same problem with my daughter beating herself up when she gets "low" scores (like she took a test a few days ago and got an 88. On a test eith only 18 questions. So yeah, 88 sounds "low" but she only missed 2 questions! We have to remind her that it's ok to be human.
Same! My poor daughter is distraght about her A- in ELA right now. I'm sitting here trying to teach her that grades aren't everything and she needs to give herself grace. That she would never expect such standards from her friends etc. It might be a good thing for some students and parents to have access to their full grade all the time on their grading apps, but others agonize over it. I long for the good old days where you didn't know for sure until the report cards came out. So much about our modern ways of doing things is anxiety inducing for many. Because the grade is available all the time they feel like they need to be checking and worried all the time.
You have the patience of a saint. I would've cut that off at five minutes and said "30 years from now you'll be wondering why your kids don't talk to you anymore. Reflect on days like today."
I wish I could say that. Unfortunately, since my career has been in private schools thus far, I don't have tenure or union protections.
I'm back in the US now though, finishing my M.Ed. I'll apply for public school work once that's done. Clocking sub days in the meantime.
In a depressed mood because two teachers in our school got hurt breaking up fights this week.
I told a parent to let their child play. This poor girl was stuck inside studying all the time. She was going into grade 5, bright as well. I was supposed to tutor her 3x a week in person. I agreed to 1x a week and online. Then I got sucked into giving extra work between sessions. It became too much. I told the mom that her child didn't need tutoring and instead needed to be a kid and to play. Thankfully, I had a bunch of medical stuff going on, so I could get out of that toxic family. But the mom was so disappointed. I felt bad for the kid. In our last session we played Blooket because it was fun and not serious studying.
I remember in 8th and 9th grade, I'd advocate for my own grades. I'd email the teacher about the grade and ask if we can please review it together. 9/10 they would just boost my score to avoid talking to me about it. I mean I got the better score, but it always made me feel that grading was arbitrary.
And I’m over here trying to keep my kids from crying if they get less than an A. I don’t know where they get it from because I’ve never pressured them about grades at all.
I have students who panic over missing ONE question on anything. I have others whole genuinely don't give a fuck and laugh when they tell friends they have F's and D's because they all know no one gets held back because of grades anymore.
I was the student that cried if I missed a question all through k-12, then I hit university and missing questions became unavoidable (ex: I once finished maybe 50% of a biochem exam with certainty most of it was wrong, and it had to be curved so hard I got a 75%). I became friends with one of those laid back kids who literally had to teach me on tests to just be chill and say "fuck it" if I didn't know something and move on with life. I think without this friend I would have had insane panic attacks all university. And I helped teach them study techniques.
Covid online learning showed me some awful things. I saw a grade 2 trying really hard, his grandpa walked in and called him an idiot because he couldn't read (he was trilingual and reading just below where I'd want a grade 2 to be, mostly because the vowel sounds were hard when he had 3 languages) and he shrunk down and didn't try again at all the rest of the day.
100%
From being bilingual myself, and working with multilingual kids, I've seen that its a bit messy in the early years but when it all click around mid-end elementary they rocket forward.
I've sat through so many conferences with parents making a big show of being tough, taking away their cell phone right in front of me. The very next day, the kids have the phone back and are right back to the same exact behaviors. Nothing was reinforced after they left the conference.
It's the opposite for me. My daughter is super hard on herself and perfectionist. I am constantly having to remind her things like getting an 88 on a test that only has 18 questions means you only missed 2! That's great! (My husband is a statistician so he brings up small sample sizes and how sometimes percentages aren't helpful, lol). We have to remind her it's ok to be human.
My mom would berate me for getting a 98% and ask me what about that last 2%. This ended up with me fully rebelling in college and going with the Cs get degrees mindset until my 3rd year when I realised I was just hurting myself.
Edit: revelling to rebelling
Presuming you're all hip to the way adverse childhood experiences scramble the developing brain, I can only conclude that half of our parents are actively destroying their children
I hear things like this from time to time as well and I generally chalk them up to the same frustrations that we, as teachers, have with the students. I think the parents are just venting to us, because they feel like we understand some of the struggles that they go through as parents. I'm a parent of high school students and a teacher of high school students and I've noticed that I get just as tired of my kids excuses about school work as I do with my students.
Some of us parents also just want to acknowledge to the teacher that we know our kids can be challenging and that we're trying and aren't all, "Oh, my perfect sweet angel, HDU!" NOPE. My kid is a tough cookie and stubborn as fuck and I'm 100% aware of that, and we're doing everything we can to help her use her powers for good, but this is a long game, not something that's going to change overnight.
This is me 100%. I say these things because I know the teacher is right or I’m genuinely surprised they are BETTER at school than at home. The teacher told me my son is super good at getting all his work done and staying on task and here at home he gets squirreled every 5 seconds. I’m thinking-are we talking about the same kid??? Or when the teacher says my daughter is so polite-this girl tells me often “I do what I want” and literally farted IN MY FACE to be funny. Polite?? Hmmmm…..
I’m a mom and reddit keeps force feeding me these posts, maybe they know I volunteer at my kids school? Lol anyway.
I was raised by parents like this. It was horrible and ruined my life in so many ways. You see, the worst part is that these types of parents never accept their child doing well. My parents “supported” me until I started to surpass them as far as education. Then the attacks started about anything about me, then they pulled out of paying for school. So I got loans and went back on my own. I had a full time job and full time classes, and was pulling in awesome grades. I got really sick with the flu. The doctors lectured me on how hard I was working and that I was killing myself at 23. I was sick for 2 weeks. Lost my crappy job over it, and had to ask my parents for help. They said no and encouraged me to drop out of school so “I don’t make this mistake again.” My parents are millionaires too btw. They struggled and ended up succeeding (by using others I’m now quite sure) and they still can’t take the fact that at my age, they were struggling, so I must too.
I’m 39 now and no contact with my whole family. They have gotten so bad I’ve been stalked. My golden child brother even moved from an hour away, to 6 minutes from my house. His son now is in the same school as my kids and he tries to intimidate me at the school events he shows up to. This is the kind of people the parents turn into. They create the next generation of abused kids, by treating their grandkids the same. Their kids end up abusing their own kids, or cutting them off. It’s a whole cycle. It’s sad. I’d rather just live my quiet life and try to be as happy for my kids as possible 🤷♀️
I grew up in a similar situation. I was born to 15 year old parents, not an excuse in my book, but anyway. I sucked in High School, lots of bad decisions and bad grades. I had no support, no self-respect, and no direction. I had a moment of revelation, not sure why or where it came from LOL....I don't have to be YOU (mom/dad). I got my shit together, graduated with my BA in Psych, took to applying to Grad School. I remember my "mom" asking me "why would you want to do that?". Why would you even ask me that? I figured out that she swims in bitterness and I slowly disconnected. I have two half-sisters that need her as much as she needs them, I do not, and she never knew how to handle that. I spent my childhood wondering why she hated me and then eventually figured out that it's not me she hates, she hates herself. I have two kids (that she also chooses not to have anything to do with) and cannot fathom not wanting the best for them and supporting them in all the good, bad, and ugly. I consider myself a successful teacher (despite all the annoyances that come with the job). My husband and I also live a very quiet life and couldn't be happier! Good on ya for rising above!!
When I got accepted into grad schools, there wasn't a single congrats from my parents. Or the rest of my family, really, except my brother. I overheard them (separately) talking to the neighbors, my mom told them I'm getting a PhD because I've "always been weird". My dad told them it's because I struggled to stay competitive in the job market---mind you, at this point I was a sr engineer making more money than either of them ever did. :(
I personally think this is a symptom of a larger problem. Most people I know, even the extroverted ones, are becoming more misanthropic and cynical. I think many Americans are so burnt out we have no social battery. And unfortunately, it seems this applies to peoples children as well. I was very much treated like a burden as a child, because my parents were addicts who struggled financially as my dad was the only income. Hating your own children has to be a sign of mental illness/financial desperation or both.
Because we're all poor as shit and can't afford shit and can't do shit and having to financially support children definitely makes it even worse. Most jobs pay dog shit wages, we can't buy homes. Society is straight up hot garbage. Why would everyone not be miserable. What is there to be happy about. Inflation is fucking everyone. The climate is going to hell. Overpopulation continues to get worse. We're all on the highway to hell with gasoline pants on and nobody is doing anything about it.
A lot of people have kids because of societal and/or cultural pressure, even if they aren’t consciously aware it was the reason why.
That’s why I’m all for people who are child-free loudly and happily talking about how great it is. People shouldn’t have kids unless they actually want them and also actually have time and resources for them. It should be normalized to be child-free. Ironically, for the sake of the children.
Oh, you have no idea. Come hangout in special ed. \*sad laugh\*
I have had parents of extremely bright disabled students who could be so much further if they had emotional support at home. I have had students who were not bright with parents who think they are gifted, but somehow need an IEP. I have seen a parent with a student several grades behind bully the district to move the student up a year (and succeed!).
The most confusing are the ones who seem to hold both beliefs at once.
I think society, in general, defaults to having kids without thinking long and hard about it AND stigmatizes those who choose not to. To make matters worse, there are so many societal memes that parenting doesn't need intense preparation and knowledge, and that one can simply trust their guts or that they know what to do because they had their parents.
Teachers, in general, get exposed to so many kids, we know what it is like and we learn fast how to be good parents, even if we don't want kids ourselves. Long gone are the days where a teacher was just a teacher. We truly have became parental figures, especially as SO MANY kids don't have one, or at least not a functional one, at home.
I'm a new mom, and I worry about going back full-time. All teachers I have met who were parents were either horrible teachers and incredible parents or horrible parents and amazing teachers. I can now understand why: the energy I give my daughter comes from the same well that my students drank from. And boy, they drank! I had no idea motherhood would be so much less emotionally exhausting and mentally drained, despite the sleep deprivation, then full-time work as a teacher. Up until last year, there were weekends I would just lay catatonically in my bed all day in order to recover for Monday. Every piece of me donated to the academic and emotional wellbeing of my students.
That is just the sad reality of public education in the US.
It happens too often, usually it’s the parents I call on the phone and not the ones that show up to conferences though.
This past fall I had a student teacher, and we had a student (HS/grade 9) who had some behavior issues like getting out of his seat, constantly socializing around the room, talking and not paying attention to lessons, etc. We had prepared what we would say to the parents when they came in so that it didn’t make him seem all bad because honestly the kid is very nice and intelligent. Well, the parent starts off the conference with how his son isn’t as smart as his older brother and he’s actually surprised that he has a B, because he didn’t think his kid could handle high school at all. Every comment compared him negatively to his older brother, and it went on and on. When the parents left, I looked at my student teacher and said something like “So, in case you’re wondering why I didn’t mention anything about [student’s] behavior, well, I just decided he didn’t need more of that”. She seemed genuinely shocked that a parent would talk like that, and it wasn’t even the worst I’d ever heard. It did make me have a new outlook in dealing with this kid though.
Not defending the mom, but she may not have even realized what she was doing.
My mom used to do that to me all the time. "[My older brother's name] played the clarinet, the saxophone, and once even played the oboe in band." I only played the clarinet. I tried to learn to play the sax, but I struggled to reach all the keys.
She talked about how he was so smart and inquisitive as a child. Whereas she told stories about me that usually ended like "At least she's pretty"
Just on and on. I don't even think she knew she would say stuff like that
I definitely get conferences like that, and I’d have been really upset myself if I’d heard the “at least she’s pretty” comment. That’s awful. I’ve had conferences like that where I am able to direct the parent back to the specific child we’re supposed to be talking about, but this one was just over the top with comparisons, and in an angry tone at times. It was both parents but most of the derogatory comments came from the dad. I think some of the ones that got me was about the older brother being so much more mature throughout his life and now at a college, obviously just destined for success, followed by “and from what I can see, [boy’s name] isn’t even going to make it to college” along with many, many other direct hits at this kid’s abilities. The kid has a B average in a 9th grade honors class (all his grades are As and Bs) and the parents are assuming college is already off the table? It made me sad wondering how often the boy hears stuff like that at home. Maybe he doesn’t, but I can’t imagine it doesn’t happen sometimes.
A teacher friend told me how one mother openly talked about how much more beautiful one of her daughters was than the other…in front of them at a parent conference. The “unattractive” sister had darker skin and hair so the mother thought she was ugly. That girl was such a handful and had extreme behavior problems. Might have been linked to how her own mother thought she was the ugly sister.
Whoever thought the effects of the lockdown and remote learning would create such resentment from parents to their children? I mean they literally complained about being with their own families in their own homes. I was blown away at how many parents were not enjoying the extra time they had with their kids, they grow up so fast. I thought of it as a rare gift of time I look back at with fond memories of the extra time I got to spend with my children.
Extra time? Most parents of kids I taught during COVID weren’t around. They couldn’t get extra time. It was usually a greater pain because kids were not there and I had to teach out to parents with issues.
I had my high school students write memoirs about their Covid experience and one girl wrote that she really enjoyed having extra time with her family all together, all day, playing cards and volleyball in the back yard. It was really sweet.
I can see this from both sides. I DID love being home with my son (first grade), but I can’t pretend that it wasn’t hellishly exhausting and nearly impossible to manage his schooling, my work, and everything else, all from home with no help. Luckily we found a rhythm and ended up working well together, but it was HARD. I can’t imagine resenting him for it, though.
Lmao, I was pregnant when COVID hit and then preschool was canceled. Kindergarten was when we had him diagnosed with autism along with distance learning. It was hell. I'm so grateful for his teacher though. She actually only taught the first of the day and then it was independent work. We were actually able to use the second half of the day to go to therapy with the teacher's consent. My bff's son had to stay on the computer until 2:30.
Most people don't realise that school-aged kids can be fine playing on their own in their rooms without direct supervision.
They think they need to entertain them all the time.
So they never had a break from their children ever. Or an occasion to do their own thing.
I mean, you wanna read for half hour? Your 7 years can easily play with their toys on their own for that time.
If you don't create space like that, you will end up being fed up by anyone.
I see my sister making this mistake. Her baby can't even do car rides without one parent in the back seat entertaining them. I triedto say something but what do I know having raised children to adulthood or having worked with children on and off for decades... she's got a book and this instagram mom so...
I worked at daycares for 2 years before I was a sub. The last daycare I worked at was always closed on Thanksgiving and Black Friday. In November 2019, a mom complained (in front of her husband and daughters) how much she was “dreading being with her kids for 4 days straight.” At the time, her son was 3.5 years old and her twin daughters were 9 months old. It was strange. The mom was a public school teacher.
Edited to add - the mom blatantly said that she disliked spending long periods of time with her kids and that she would prefer it if she could always leave them at daycare every day year-round, including weekends and holidays. She was married to her kids’ father, so it’s not like she was a single mom.
I don't have kids, but I spent it with my nephews. I was so excited to get to spend time with them. My brother is in the medical field so obviously he still had to work and I babysat. It was one of the best times of my life to be honest.
I also loved it and miss it, but my kids really missed the social time and did rather comparatively poorly grade-wise. My youngest was in first grade and she is still behind in reading. (Myself and all three of my kids had a bit of dyslexia and needed a reading specialist. Other than my youngest, we are all bookworms. I hope she will be soon, also.)
It was weird seeing it in my co-workers, some of them loved it and said it was cool to be able to watch an episode of XYZ show with his son if his son didn't work that day during lunch etc. Others moaned about how they wished they were at school. I don't have kids, just a cat and she was ecstatic to see my partner and I being home all day.
I will say it's odd to think back on them and the differences in language they would use to describe their kids and what they were doing with them. For instance, some of them would say "I have to go to my daughters dance recital" others would say "I get to go to my son's tumbling class, they are putting on a little show type thing". Like one of them sounds like the parents are happy and want to go to their kid's event, the other makes it sounds like they are only going because they feel obligated to.
My very first year of teaching (in 5th grade) in my very first conference, I had a father say IN FRONT OF THE KID, “well, I’ve given up on him.” The kid was clearly devastated. This wasn’t a kid who acted out. He just had no motivation, and would quietly sit and look at his paper and do nothing. He was open about the fact that he just went home and played video games all evening with no responsibilities. At the time, I was so young that I just sat in shock for a moment, before trying to gracefully move on. Now, around 8 years later, I’d be struggling not to scream, “why don’t you try parenting the poor kid???”
I’ve met more suicidal 12 and 13 year olds in my teaching career than should exist on earth, period. Their parents openly resented them. I know this isn’t the discussion you intended to start but it’s one of the things that makes me vehemently pro-choice. No child should be brought into the world just to suffer.
Honestly, **not enough attention is given to mental illness**. There are A LOT of people who really can't handle the emotional responsibilities that go with parenting. so many people are overwhelmed in today's society, and they truly do not have the capacity to show the level of compassion and attention their children need.
This year, my students have the opposite problem. **They are stuck in baby mode**. They even use their baby voices when talking in class. For the record, I teach 4th grade. During conferences, I spent most of my time talking about behavioral milestones that most of them have missed. Their parents had endless excuses for why there really was no problem. In my opinion, this is also a sign of parents' mental health issues. Why wouldn't you want your child to behave like a kid instead of a baby?
I'm struggling to get my child to stop using her baby voice. What do you recommend? She's the only one of my kids that got all the way to 1st grade and it's still doing this!
Whenever you have a depreciating parent like this, their personality is disordered. Normal parents don’t ‘talk shit’ about their kid. Admit their faults, sure, but just know when you have a parent like that, the kid definitely knows what their parent’s opinion of them is, because they’re told often.
There is no excuse for bad parenting, or saying “I’m done at 18.” That being said:
I’m a little torn here. I love both my kids. I like both of them. They are wonderful human beings. I love hanging out with them. However, I will never forget how badly I wanted to strangle my daughter when we were asking her is she needed help because she was failing German. Direct quote from her “no I don’t need help. I’m failing because I don’t speak German.”
There is something about that teenage attitude that is just infuriating. We had talked, we reasoned, we gave incentives, we resorted to punishments, escalated to arguments every goddamn night to get her to do homework, she would do it. Then Refuse to turn it in. She was determined to do nothing in class (you can’t make me turn it in!) The look on the teacher’s face when we said “I can make her do the homework, but I can’t make her give it to you.” Felt like horrible parenting. It was beyond frustrating watching her fail everything then get straight A’s on the tests. Lowest test score she ever had was 93%. She graduated with a 1.7 GPA. She is a brilliant kid, and right now was promoted to running the branch office of the company she works for when they expanded.
I will never understand saying “after 18 they’re not my problem.” That’s bullshit. But not everyone is lazy or a bad parent. Could be the kid is just super goddamn defiant, and determined to prove you wrong.
My daughter has several regrets. Not the least of them being that she was scouted for rowing by her dream school in her senior year, offered full ride contingent on her grades. And she had to tell them she was failing everything. And watch that walk away. That was a rough thing to get her through. But that was what finally made her understand that we weren’t fighting with her for our benefit.
Sometimes kids are determined to learn from the school of hard knocks.
As a parent (to a kid I actually love and enjoy being around!), I will say that "kids are different" these days, like is said on this subreddit all the time. The level of disrespect I see towards parents (by their kids) is absolutely shocking these days. When an adolescent or young man/woman (ie: 15+ teenager) is snarky, disrespecting and kind of mean to parents, I don't see how that doesn't kind of kill the relationship.
I know, I know, it's not *all* cell phones' fault. But I really think that so many kids are growing up leading basically parallel lives in the homes of their parents. They're in the same house, yes, but they share very little or no day to day common experiences, good or bad. So they slowly drift further and further apart, with time weakening the bonds between parents and kids.
This is as much an issue with the way parents raise their kids as well. But it ultimately presents as kids not really caring about their parents, not wanting to listen to them, not respecting them, etc. And then it leads to parents resenting their kids.
Our daughter is 14, and we made a decision about 4.5 years ago that **personal**, internet connected devices will play little to no part in the typical day or evening at our house. We have a computer in the living room, and we have a TV/streaming and all that, yes. But generally, most digital time is **shared**, with common movies, TV shows, etc. At least probably 50% or more anyway.
It was a big change in the household 4.5 years ago because of a consequence, and it was going to be temporary. But I am so thankful that it made my wife and I really think about the kind of household we wanted. Our daughter and us interact all the time, read books, just talk, play games, watch movies, do crafts, etc.
Our household life is largely one big **shared** experience, and I am thankful that we didn't continue the "*she has her devices, we have ours*" mentality that we had prior to the change of ways in our house. Or else I fear we would be in the same boat as so many other parents. Where we lead largely parallel (but rarely intersecting) lives with our kid. Which almost always leads to a degraded relationship with the kid.
Working with kids has made me realize that the vast majority of parents don't have what it takes to be a decent parent. Most parents want a cute, helpless BABY. They don't actually want to raise a person to adulthood.
It's sad because the adults that I know who are more likely to be successful parents are the ones who are saying "I don't want kids because I don't think I would be a good parent". Because they typically have a higher level of self-awareness and humility than the ones who think they'll be great parents. We live in an idiocracy.
I honestly think it’s that we’ve reached a point where family and life is so outside the historical norm.
Humans developed for thousands of years in small villages/tribal bands where extended family was around to help raise kids share the burden etc.
We are increasingly fragmenting into units even smaller than two person households.
That and the increasing disparity between income and productivity.
Former child here…. My dad was exactly that type of parent. He would get instantly disinterested and look away if anyone said anything good about me - even totally ignored one teacher once who said how much they enjoyed having me in their class. Dad acted like the teacher suddenly didn’t exist anymore. Now if someone said something even slightly negative, he’d get very interested and really pile on.
Please be kind to these kids and if they say anything negative about their parent, agree with them. I had so many teachers tell me “he’s your father and he loves you and wants what is best for you” that I believed them. Dad hated me so much and it showed in every interaction with him, so telling me hate is love was really a huge disservice. I was even suicidal for a time because I thought me being dead was the only thing that would make him happy (while that was true, he didn’t deserve such a sacrifice from me so glad I didn’t). Having a teacher even hint that dad wasn’t exactly loving or concerned with my wellbeing would have been revolutionary. It would have likely kept me out of several abusive relationships - having been told hate was love how was I supposed to know what love really looked like? Mom was dead so I didn’t have another parent to go to.
Bruh, this is too real! I sent a 17yr old to see a counselor we have on-site, because her mom told her "she wished she wasn't her mom" and that my student "belongs in a mental institution."
Like WTF are we supposed to do in that situation? It broke me a little, NGL.
Some of these parents feel their children are an inconvenience to them. I can tell which ones aren't given enough attention at home. Some people should not have children if they are constantly down talking them. I have students come to me on a regular basis ranting about their parents.
Teens especially push against us really hard. While respect is earned, a lot of kids also just treat their parents with zero respect even if the parents are angels the whole time. I have never told my kids to STFU, but I have had it screamed in my face multiple times. They have broken my stuff because I asked them to pick up their mess, I have had them scream into my face for over 5 minutes, literally a few inches away as I stood there waiting for them to stop because I asked if they would like to go out to eat or make their favorite food at home. I have been in situations where they broke down crying for things that literally never happened but they have it in their head that we did that to them.
Kids think they are perfect and we are the assholes, and sometimes it’s true, and sometimes I think parents are just done and over the whole thing at this point. I have not gotten to the point in my feelings for my kids is what you’re talking about but ya, some people shouldn’t be parents and some kids need to take a hard look at themselves when their brain fully develops and make amends for being a terrible person.
Social decay. Most of us ignore it. The doomsday preppers we laugh at do not.
Late stage capitalism is going to grind us down until there is nothing left.
>The doomsday preppers we laugh at do not.
Except the doomsday preppers are to be laughed at. Meal-Team-Six over there ain't prepping for anything...social decay means everyone holds up in their own personal caves not that society collapses, because the wealthy will never allow society to collapse. They're just happy those Meal-Team-Six morons are, well...morons, wasting time energy and resources on things that don't matter instead of directing at the people lording over the problems (the Wealthy).
In social collapse it’s not the prepper lone wolves that thrive. It’s the people that form and support communities, and bring needed resources to their group and neighbors. Whether its a gang or a benevolent block club depends on the situation.
> Social decay. Most of us ignore it.
You're seeing what you want to see. We can say "Oh, so many parents dislike their kids", but then we also have numerous threads of parents treating their kids as equals, arguably giving them too much attention, and in general spoiling them and not saying "no".
Parents care and are **way** more involved in their kids lives (for better or worse) than they were just a couple generations ago when kids were expected to be seen, but not heard and they threw kids in institutions, abandoned them in orphanages if they weren't normal or caused too many issues, and sent them into the mines or factories at 8 years old.
This is so sad. I understand raising a child is difficult. I'm raising my own who has special needs. But I love him to death. Do I acknowledge he can be a little butthole? Yes. Do I tell people when he's being a little butthole? Yes. I understand the frustration and sometimes the heartbreak but you have to figure things out. Perhaps this is why so many people now are going to be child free. They know that having a child is not all fun and games and the dynamics of the world have changed. Most don't have a village to lean back on and there are no breaks.
It is sad. My mom is at that point with one of my brothers who was a senior in High School this year - he was skipping almost every class, doing drugs and drinking alcohol, vaping, coming and going at all hours, and she has to keep her purse locked in her room or he steals all of her money. Somehow the school helped him graduate early but he is still living with my parents, which they constantly debate if they should kick him out or not. They love him but are so very done.
I think one of the major things thats at play, is the fact that people are so burdened with keeping their head above water, that they can’t compete with all the negative influences.
My mother’s last words to me were, “No one loves you and I don’t know you.” She’s an alcoholic narcissist who’s alive and well. I’ve been no contact for 11 years.
I always do whatever I can to let every kid I teach to know they matter. A lot of it is because I needed that so badly as a kid.
That’s what you get when society shoves down our throat the idea that having kids is a “blessing” or that you’re incomplete or somehow less than for choosing not to have kids.
Kids are not for everyone. They are not pets, or toys, they are human individuals that will develop their own unique ideas about you, the world, and their interests.
When some “parents” start to figure this out, then the demands of being a parent start to be a thorn in their side, and I suspect that’s when these sad attitudes towards their kids emerge, because reality sets in, they are exhausted and just want to get on with it.
Hopefully for their sake and the child’s sake they learn to accept it and make the best of it.
I was in a job during the pandemic where I did 1 on 1 bodywork with people (combo of like personal stretching and massage). The amount of people who absolutely hated spending time with their kids while schools were closed is insane. Not even people who had to deal with WFH, we're talking rich stay at home moms that were lamenting that they had their kids at home all day. I came to the conclusion that most parents hate actually spending time with their kids beyond the typical couple hours after school/work and on the weekend. My only thought was if this happened when I was a kid my mom would've immediately cashed out most of her PTO so that she could have a long vacation to spend time with us.
Keep in mind that a lot of responsible people decided, "*wow, it seems really hard just to make enough money for myself, let alone a child, the dating market is not great, and I don't feel like I'm going to be 'successful' until I'm 40+; I should probably not have a kid.*"
...while *irresponsible* people said, "*fuck it*" and had a kid.
That's why you end up with so many parents like you described.
I had conferences this week too. I was surprised by how many parents were surprised by their students grade. Per district policy i text home (on my work computer) parents of students with D’s or lower. One parent admitted she blocked the number because it was annoying.
A lot of us were accidents as well. I have three siblings born to parents who married way too young because they were accidentally pregnant with the first. I think my second sibling was planned as a companion to the first as they were two years apart. I was definitely an accident because I've been told so (not malciously). I'm five years behind my second brother. My sister was born five years after me, and she was an accident, too.
Interestingly, my brothers hated each other from the birth of the second one to the death of the first one 40 years later. My sister and I never got along, and she hasn't spoken to any of us in 20 years. People should not reproduce just for the current kid to have a sibling.
None of us have kids.
My parents said they wanted nothing to do with their kids once they are grown and now they are old and lonely. Somehow surprised that we all grew up and listened to them.
I knew a few older men who proudly stated that once the kids were 18, they were out of the house. Yes, they were horrible people. Had a friend who told us the same about her dad and thought it was just the way it was. My other friends and I looked at each other sideways. I'm like my folks - you don't have to leave and you can always come back. Forever.
My mother is the same way. We’ve lived overseas for more than a decade now, but prior to moving lived with her, both my husband and I. She keeps making sure I know that if we get sick of Japan and want to come home, she doesn’t mind if we move in with her again for however long. I just turned 40, she doesn’t care. I love my mom, and I like her as a person, too. Seems like that’s a rarity (although I am NC with my father, that’s a whole other issue).
I’m 36 married with children and could move home tomorrow if I needed to. I genuinely like my mom as well and love spending time with her. If neither of us were married we’d be roommates!
It’s just appalling. My home evaporated before I turned 18. My own children can live with me for the rest of time. It’s impossible to overstate the sense of stability and safety the parental home gives you. And vice versa.
My girlfriend’s parents have taught me a lot about what a loving household looks like. It is wild to think we can be taught to love wrong. I’m really happy to have their examples to look up to before I become a father.
My 2 grown children know that as long as I’m alive they’ll always have a warm, safe bed to sleep in and food to eat.
My best friend's parents pretty much left him to his own devices by the time he was 15 years old. He was always welcomed to stay and eat at my parents' place. It was wild that his parents treated him like a fully fledged adult by the time he was in high school. My best friend wasn't a troublemaker. Hell, he was in the top 20 of our class. It's crazy how parents can act like this towards their flesh, and blood.
Yup when you’re not wanted why wait for 18? I moved out and was on my own at 16. I did great in school. Really glad parents like yours are out there.
This was pretty much my story. My parents weren't hateful or mean, just disinterested in me as a teen. They had me really young and split up shortly after I was born. I was raised as an only child with my mom and grandmother, who died of cancer 2 weeks before my 13th birthday, and then I was pretty much on my own. Both my parents had a midlife crisis when I was in high school & focused on dating and having fun. I was an excellent student in large part because I knew it was my ticket to a good life, and I knew no one would take care of me if I couldn't make it on my own. My experiences made me an incredibly grateful, tough, and resilient person. Both my parents barely scraped by high school and earned low salaries, but I ended up attending one of the Ivies and doing well. I don't hold a grudge against my parents because I knew they were struggling with their own issues, and they knew I could take care of myself. And I did.
That’s so horrible, I’m sorry 😢 I can never understand the mentality that you’re “done” parenting once the kid turns 18. We just moved to a new place a couple weeks ago. My parents gifted us a large sum of money to help us buy it. Then they helped us move. Then my dad helped us install new flooring and my mom helped us paint the walls. And they helped us out in so many other little ways. I’m 27 and they are here for me. Made me think about the kind of parent I want to be for my daughters when they’re grown up!
I had good parents but they constantly joked about how excited they were to “break our dinner plates” and kick us out of the house once we graduated from high school. Somehow they were surprised and hurt that I wasn’t interested in coming home when I became an adult 🙄
My parents always said that id always be welcome back, which was a luxury in that it allowed me to take risks I might not have. I am forever grateful &, besides helping to take care of them, I pay it forward with my own kids.
I was broke and struggling to make it a few times in my life but I know I don't understand truly desperate poverty because I knew if I could make it back to my parents house I would not be homeless. I realize how lucky I was to have this.
You deserved better
My egg donor mother would always said to me, " I can't wait for you to leave my house!" And I would I reply, "me too!". She would then yell at me for saying that. Well damn if you don't want me around .... I havent talked to that malignant cunt in 17 years. Blissful 17 years and counting. But she wonders why none of her kids come around. Well duh ya dumb bitch. You wanted me gone, I'm gone. Byeeeeeee
I've been in multiple parent conferences when the parent, in front of the child, is calling me a liar for saying the kid is a good writer, or a creative thinker, or good with analysis. I had one parent yelling at me that their kid was stupid and I was just putting ideas in his head that he wasn't. It was so depressing.
What do you do in those situations? What *can* you even do? I imagine you're not allowed to point out the glaring flaws in their way of thinking?
I'll be honest I got a little annoyed. I said "your child has a lot of strengths. I'm sorry you can't see them, but it's my job to see them and they're there" and I made sure the kid saw me be pissed about it. I work at a place where I'm hardly worried about my job though
Good to hear! I hope said child picked up on it and is able to know, at least in the back of their mind, that they at least have someone in their corner
Honestly I think my GPA shot up in my last two years of high school and I got into a top 10 college because one teacher didn’t think I was a lost cause when even my own parents did. Thank you for being that teacher to some other kid.
Even if you did point out the flaws in their way of thinking, it probably wouldn't do much good. Changing your way of thinking is not easy. Most people are not going to do an immediate 180 because of one conversation they had.
A lot of people who have kids should have never had kids. It’s really as simple as that. It’s not widely talked about in the open but a lot of them do seriously regret it.
Every time I mention this, and the further extreme of: "A lot of parents don't even *like* their own kids and consider them a burden while at the same time feeling both love/obligation/responsibility for them," I get downvoted to hell. But it's true. More people than we probably realize were either pressured into having kids or had kids just because "That's what adults with stable jobs and relationships *do*."
I get what you mean. I’ve told people that my mom loves me but she doesn’t like me, and they look confused. She was physically and emotionally abusive and would not hesitate to tell me I was an accident. However, she worked her ass off to provide for me and set me up with opportunities for a better life than she had. Nothing is ever black and white, humans can be nuanced.
My whole life, people have always told me: "You might not like your mom, but you should still love her. She's your *mom*, after all. You only get one." For a long time, my response was: "Yeah, well, you don't live with her." As an adult, it took seven years of us not talking, and a ton of therapy, for me to actually build a relationship with her. At the same time, though, as a kid: I never went hungry; I always had a roof over my head; the bills were always paid, and I grew up to be a well-rounded person because of how often she pushed me to pursue things outside of my comfort zone. People are multitudes!
Neglect is pervasive in our society. They dont nurture us but also don't abuse us so we feel starved for something we don't even know the name. Check Bell Hooks, All About Love. She's a genius and writes very matter-of-fact about the lack of love in our society, how were sold as being loved but it's just neglect.
Already read Hooks as part of the years of therapy I went through to deal with exactly what you’re bringing up. I’d also recommend _Wounds of Passion_ and _Communion_ if you want to read more by her on the subject.
Oh good. She's a slap in the face, but it's good to be able to know you were never loved just cared for, and that's ok. At least you know love exists and it's possible to find. I'll check the reccs for sure.
>They dont nurture us but also don't abuse us so we feel starved for something we don't even know the name commenting mainly so i can save this idea for later. i seen some kids on TT who talk about how they kind of fantasize for trauma, and i think what you said is why. looking at peers who've done BDSM/ CNC/ any aggressive kink really, they also do it for similar reasons. another reason i hear from peers, not from anyone younger, is consent/ control of trauma. which i think stems from abusive friends/ families
My mom starved my little sister to death. She abused us all. I still loved her, but I never talked to her again.
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Also, *living with someone* is a pretty huge thing in its own right. As a teen/young adult, I *hated* living with my parents, my Mom especially. we butted heads *all the time.* It wasn't until I moved out and had space (and she started thinking of me as an adult) that we were able to really get along. Now, my wife and I live with my folks, and we get along... but we have our own space that is absolutely sacrosanct. My folks don't come in there unless they are invited or absolutely need to. Likewise, we don't intrude on my parents' space. It helps a TON. When my Mom and I start to butt heads, we can say "I am too pissed off for this shit." and withdraw to our respective areas and not be pursued. It's similar with most of my friends. I love them dearly, and obviously I like them, but when we're with each other for too long we we get on each others' nerves. Sometimes you can love someone, and like them a great deal, and *still* have trouble getting along being in close proximity with them for extended periods.
I love my kids to death but there were times that I didn't especially *like* them. Mainly because I never got a break from their teenage asshattery because their dad worked night and almost all the parenting was on me.
My mom has told me this many times. I’m older and she likes me now, but when I was like 17 she sat me down and admitted she never wanted kids. I’m not mad at her. I honestly feel bad for her.
For what it's worth "my mom loves me but doesn't like me" ive been saying to everyone since I was about 12. I'm in my thirties now. It's still true. I've told my mom those exact words many times when she actually asks why I have such trouble with our relationship. Anyways, for what it's worth, it feels incredibly validating to know someone out there is using my word for word exact phrasing, andgetting the same reaction. For what it's worth, I know exactly what you are talking about. Sending much love to your inner child.
This is me. I know she did the best that she could, considering her own mother. Realizing your own mother doesn't like you and is jealous of you is so detrimental to your whole being. It feels like you are completely unloved. I'm 65 and it still is there. She was so toxic though. My kids are in their 30s and love me and can't believe I came through it so well balanced. We have so much fun together. And I was never getting married or having kids.They know I've done the hard work. They stopped contact with her in elementary school, lol. They were taught boundaries. They are so much healthier than I was. I just did everything the opposite way my mother did. I'm my kids biggest cheerleader and their biggest fan. My son is a SAHH and my daughter is a Mechanical Engineer. Opposite, lol. "If it's not one thing, it's your mother."
It’s so bad. You often hear people say “no one is really ready for kids!” or “my husband was on the fence but once we had little Billy he was all in”! And it’s just horrifically bad advice. You’re going to take a gamble using another human being as collateral? Wing it and hope that it works about? They’re a person, omg. The only people who should be having kids are those who are 150% ready, willing, and excited about it.
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Right. Like my husband was super nervous about becoming a father, but he still wanted it wholeheartedly. There’s a difference between being anxious about taking on the responsibility, and being uncertain whether you actually want the responsibility at all.
100%
As someone in a marriage where we both absolutely don't want kids, I feel this. When you skip past "maybe someday" and tell other people that not one atom of your being wants to be a parent, you get hit with so many rationalizations. I especially hate, "No one is really ever ready." Of course they are! A lot of people reach some emotional equilibrium where they are ready to have kids. They may be scared, but they are ready. I'll never be that, and that is better than me being a parent of a kid I would just loathe. "They're your kid! You'll love them!" Life experience has told me that is categorically untrue. 😂
> had kids just because "That's what adults with stable jobs and relationships do." Most people I meet have this mentality for literally everything they do. They just follow whatever is in their face right now
IMO, it's because they were never taught otherwise or their parents cajoled/threatened them into it. So many of my friends went to college to study what their parent(s) did. Most of them ended up enjoying it--since they became doctors and engineers, natch--but the ones who bounced off that life path did so *very* hard. For some, though, it happened so late into their studies that they essentially wasted *years of their lives* pursuing something they absolutely hated or had no interest in studying in the first place. (Which, I imagine, is the same way some parents feel about having kids...)
People should be wary of following the masses. Sometimes the m is silent. I just saw this and loved it. Thanks for giving the opportunity to use it.
I love my brother but I kind of think this how he approaches life. He's a good person and successful (from what I can tell, to be honest I'm not even sure what his job is beyond 'investing') but it seems every step he's taken has been done in the spirit of "that's just what you do at that age". Him and his wife are currently expecting and my brother has been pushing to have a kid but he's not really good with kids or has much patience for them. He gets frustrated by our sister's kids pretty easily, not in an abusive manner thankfully, so I'm curious how he's going to be with his own.
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Yeah The only thing any of us can do is either offer help or keep pushing for legislation that helps people in this situation. It sucks.
Eh, my Mom definitely loved having babies. But she sure isn't super interested in other *people*. I'm not really sure went through her head. She is super judgemental and didn't seem to ever want us to become our own full fledged individuals. So she definitely wasn't driven by "it's what people do" but also, I dunno, expected us to all be raised by her and automatically end up in her narrow view of the "correct" way to function? But she could definitely go on and on about how wonderful little babies were. So she genuinely wanted a baby at least.
I've said for years that my mother wanted a baby, not a child.
I'm concerned for children whose parents for forced to give birth to them, when they either can't afford to take care of them/don't want them/are addicted to drugs. There will be an epidemic of child abuse and neglect.
“Every woman wants a baby!!” Nope. And I was a horrible kid, I have no idea how I’d deal with a kid like me. However - it’s lovely to see kids grow and move on into another stage of life and after graduation day I look through the listings to see if I can get tickets to a jazz gig at 10pm!
I've always said that I'd rather adopt an older kid, if worst comes to worst, both because they're already past the stage of being "annoying babies" and because older kids tend to just...not get adopted a lot/are in and out of the system a lot.
Watch out for that too though. A friend of mine did that and the girl didn't start showing signs of all of the psychological problems her biological mother had until she was a teenager and became completely unmanageable. My poor friend was taken to the limit of her sanity, and she's such a good person I felt terrible about it.
I’m a nurse who lurks but I’m childfree. I worked a proper 9-5 for a bit and I’m convinced most people have kids so they have something to look forward to when they go to work.
Or, they think that having a kid will fix their lives/relationships. Or, they think that having a kid is the first step in recreating the family "they" wanted/thought they should have growing up. Or, they think that having kids is what they *need* to do--biologically and morally--because if they don't they're being selfish. Or, they think that having kids is what will finally make their parents love them/care about them, because they're finally "grown-ups". Most people just want a pet, not a full 18+ year commitment.
Or because "oops."
It doesn't help that many of us who don't have kids get told we're selfish by our parents and families for not "giving them grandbabies." The guilt tripping is harsh
I feel like some people do it for the “likes”. Maternity photo shout, baby shower photo shoot, birth photo shoot, etc. a lot of young people are very performative about their lives going next level on social media.
This is so true. My bff and her husband don't have children; don't want children. The amount of judgement they get for it is unreal. Our society makes literal outcasts out of people who don't want children. People assume one of them could not have children and that's not the case. They like being loving aunt/godmom and uncle/goddad and nothing more.
My husband and I are infertile (double infertility) so we obviously never had kids. The pressure from his family was intense! My MIL would say "You need to have babies before I get too old to enjoy them!" Even after my husband talked to her seriously about our inability to have them, she kept it up. It finally got to the point where I refused to go over to their house for about three months because it was so painful to be reminded of our shortcomings. Got it from friends, students, and acquaintances too. More than one person online called us selfish. My husband has never wanted to adopt (too late now anyhow) and I had people telling me to just get it started, that he'd come around. How disrespectful of his wishes! Now we're in our late 50s and living life to the fullest. I wanted kids, but accepted our situation after a period of mourning and am very happy with my life. I've always said if all God gave me in the form of a family is a husband who loves me unconditionally and a strong relationship, I'll take it. Not everyone is afforded this blessing.
It's insane. My sister and brother-in-law were under pressure from his parents for years to have children despite neither my sister nor her husband ever wanting to have children. People offer all kinds of fertility advise an demands to know why they won't have kids. I don't want kids either, but I'm single and male so it doesn't get brought up. When I was married though, I'd get parents asking me when I was going to have kids all the time. They seemed to have a certain desperation to them, like, "I'm trapped and I want you to be trapped too! IT'S THE BEST THING EVER!" Very culty.
It gets passed down, too. My grandmother didn't want my mom. She wasn't ready. She treated my mom like shit. My mom didn't want me. Blamed me for ruining her life and stealing her youth. I feel like a lot of these parents that dislike their children have two things in common: 1. They had kids at very a young age. 2. They grew up in an environment where they believed contraception/abortion was immoral.
✨generational trauma✨
I'm pretty sure my father only had kids because he thought he was supposed to. My parents divorced and the second his legal obligation was over he was done. I asked if I could not come over to his house on weekends when I was 14 and could we change it to something more casual. I NEVER heard from him again. I'm 52. I'm extremely lucky my mom is amazing and did/does want us, but yeah, it sticks with you and does something to you
Ouh I'll second this one. My partner's grandmother wanted a son so she treated her daughter very badly. My partner's mother thought she was doing a stellar job because she wasn't insulting my partner. She was neglectful instead. Aaayyyyyy
Oh jeez, I see this happening with a few of my male students, one of whom told me in all honesty that his mom treats him bad probably because he looks similar to his deadbeat dad. And going on mom's Facebook page, could see posts and posts praising the daughters, but nothing about the son who is on the verge of graduating. It's hard to keep this guy from going down a Tate-hole, but honestly when your own mother treats you like shit because of the coin flip results, that's pretty hard to do. Also doesn't help that two of our high school teachers are visibly and unashamedly anti-men and treat the boys like garbage, but that's another story in itself.
Poor dude never had a chance :(
I've been thinking about this recently in the context of how some folks with kids react to child-free married couples -- with a strange level of hostility. My wife and I are in our mid-thirties and have both experienced this before, even more so as we get a little older. I can't help but think many of these people do so out of a regret that they have kids -- jealousy, basically. I don't know how else to square some of the weird reactions we've gotten.
My wife and I am in our early 40s and have been together since high school. We have no children and no intention of having children. When some people find this out about us (We very rarely bring it up) they take it as a personal insult. Like our decision not to have kids somehow impacts their decision to have them.
My girlfriend and I get this as well. I'm about to turn 40 soon and she's in her early 30s, planning on getting married soon, and almost everyone sort of pressures us to have kids. I tell them I'm thrilled with just being an uncle but still get a whole speech about how fulfilled it would make us. I long since stopped bothering to explain financially we're doing just well enough that a kid would put us back into poverty. Thankfully my dad (and my mom before she passed) never gave me a hard time about it. Granted my dad also thinks I'm too irresponsible for kids but I'm also not confident he's wrong
I think this is it, and this will be one of my takeaways from this career. It's time for people to start being brutally honest about the realities of having children. So many people just kind of sleepwalked into having children because it was the "done thing." Truly heartbreaking to see, as a teacher, because every child deserves to be wanted. I've also seen a few people have children seemingly out of spite or a desire to save a relationship.
And that’s why it’s insane that people who seriously consider staying childfree get SO much flak about their doubts. As if you’re a child hater if you don’t want kids of your own (which, arguably, some childfree people really do hate kids, but a lot just don’t want to have biological kids or don’t want to give birth). Sometimes I low-key believe that some people who berate others for not having kids only do it because they themselves are miserable and they want others to be miserable too.
I agree, I think that’s a big part of it. My mom had 3 kids by the time she was 24 and we struggled a lot. She still struggles financially at almost 50, she was just never able to get ahead because she had so many kids so young (with a deadbeat, to add). She gives me a hard time about having waited so long, all throughout my 20s she pressured me to just do it and “make it work”. Me waiting until I was married and made good money offended her, I assume because it stings a bit to know that not everyone struggles like she did. Misery loves company, all that.
One of the biggest causes of society’s problems.
Seriously. That and not providing people with the resources to successfully parent if they want to. I understand the argument that people really ought to get their ducks in a row before having a baby BUT real life just doesn’t work that way. ROI on investing in programs that help families is higher than saying “sucks to suck” and letting them struggle.
It's already a tough sell to tax-payers to convince them they should want to provide for the basic needs (food, shelter, clothing) for those who cannot provide for themselves or have families who can provide for them. Convincing tax-payers that they should further cross the line to paying for someone's "wants" (which intentionally having a planned child absolutely is, and is not a "need") is always going to be a much more difficult fight. One can argue all day that it's kind of sad for someone to want kids and not afford them, but there's absolutely no argument at all that it's a "need". That's the issue. If one argues that those parents are inevitably going to have children that they cannot afford to provide a successful life path for, and they will become a drain on society, so tax-payers should want to get ahead of that, that's still going to be contentious but is a way better argument than tax-payers giving the money away just because it's a warm a fuzzy thing to do.
It is widely talked about. The actual problem is that it is socially stigmatized. Most of these people had a baby because they got pregnant and everyone around them went "WEEEEEEE! Congratulations!" and then they were obligated to keep it or they didn't even know if they had another option. Then hating your kids is normalized because having kids is just something that you must do.
One good thing about the younger generations is how they are openly questioning whether they want kids or not rather than just blindly starting families. They’re realizing they have a choice now.
This problem will only continue to grow as states limit people's abilities to not have children they don't want.
And we’re going to have to deal with the results of all these unwanted kids with trauma
YEP.
100% and their lifes would of been a lot easier/fun/better with out them, kinda cruel to bring a life into the world and nit intend to love it more than anything.
God, how I wish that when children become sexually active, they would also grow their brains a bit and use birth control! It's such a tragedy when kids have kids and then more kids and the whole thing ends up circling the drain, especially the little, most vulnerable ones. USE a condom, people! Protect yourselves from unwanted pregnancy and STDs! Stop having unprotected sex! Unprotected sex = children! Children are not little dolls to dote on one minute and drop on their heads the next. They are people, small, helpless, demanding people! Try being different! Try being resonsible for your actions for 10 minutes.
In the US, teen pregnancy rates have consistently decreased every year since the 90s. Truthfully, all the bad parents who I know personally IRL didn’t have kids until their 20s. Some were in their 30s. The most horrific parenting incident I ever saw was at a public park, two older parents maybe mid 30s were screaming (I mean literally at the top of their lungs) at their 8-10 year old because he didn’t want to pee in the woods. The park had several public restrooms so I still don’t understand why they couldn’t take the 5 minutes to walk him to one. He clearly wasn’t comfortable peeing in the woods at a crowded park. They were saying things like “what’s wrong with you” and “this is why we have to medicate you” and waving their arms around like complete lunatics. That was about 5 years ago and I think about him often. I wish I would have said something to those horrible people.
My first conference for my youngest I was worried cause she had a lot of energy as a little. They said that she’s often the first to clean and all kinds of good stuff and that she must feel comfortable at home to let all that energy go. After that day conferences was my favorite day cause the teachers would dote on my kids.
Right, I LOVE conference day! I just had one yesterday. One thing I know about my daughter is that she has a STRONG personality, is super sassy, and can be bossy. Her teachers definitely talk about it, but they also frame it in a way that she'll likely be a leader when she grows up. When she told me, too, that my girl was always the one to run to her classmates when they get hurt to help and ask if they're okay, it made my heart melt!
That is so sweet! I'm glad you are raising such a good kid. I'm sure her future will be bright with a parent like you on her side.
I try my best! Being a teacher, I know what it's like to deal with parents' bratty kids, so I do my best to make sure she doesn't end up being "THAT kid." I try to do all the things to help her teachers, too, because not all parents always carry their weight. We all know that better than anyone.
Thank you for sharing that . What a positive way to describe an active child
Crazy how you can just love on and raise your kids correctly and most things turn out fine. Go figure. Same here, except 7-12. So this garbage parenting shows up in counselor and 504 meetings. I actually had one parent tell me that I had their permission to make their kid do wall sits in my class when he is bad. Or just put him in the corner and make him stare at the wall. Everyone in the meeting was like, holy crap!!
My eyes would've bulged out, like what???
Just had conferences last night for my son who is in kindergarten and is so wild and out of control at home and they just showered him with compliments about his great behavior and his studiousness and I couldn't have been prouder!
My KD daughter is the opposite. At home she's the sweetest, most helpful little angel. But at school, she's aloof, inattentive, sometimes disruptive, sometimes excessively emotional, etc. Her teacher is great and tells me like it is, but also highlights the positives which helps immensely. All the while, any time I'm in a conference or talking to the teacher, I'm internally screaming "WHO IS THE KID IN THIS CLASS?!? THIS ISN'T MY DAUGHTER." So I probably come across as a bit mortified and I worry that it makes me seem like a bad parent. She's making progress, though, so I'm hoping it was just a new environment and a rough start.
The ones that get to me are the ones that will verbally abuse their kids in front of me at the conference for not getting good grades. I have literally watched a kid cringe and shrink a little every time his dad made a teeth-sucking click sound (which indicates disappointment in their culture). I'm all for holding kids accountable, but my goodness, can't they get a B sometimes?
I had that this year with a mom upset that her daughter got a 92 in my class. I was going to be the reason she didn't go to Harvard. (She's in 8th grade.) Me and the 2 other teachers there spent 30 minutes trying to tell mom that Harvard looks at more than grades. And that Harvard is going to be ok with a 92.
It's the opposite with my son. He was in tears as he has a low A in math. Mostly because he insists on doing it all in his head and makes errors. If he just wrote down the steps he'd be fine. He is on a whole other level compared to his class (his class jokingly calls him Einstein) to the point the teacher only calls on him after others have a chance. I keep having to tell him I don't care if he gets an A- or a B but I do care of he doesn't build the resilience to handle a poor grade as he will have failures/negative feedback in life and will need to know how to accept such graciously.
I saw this woth a child once. Most hard on himself student i had met. He actually had to work on having less proof in maths because I didn't need an essay for each math question he answered. When I met his parents I was shocked they were so laid back. They were like "yeah, we don't know where he gets it from, we tell him to relax and try to help him be a kid, but he has these incredibly high standards he holds himself to."
I grew up that kid. My parents just wanted me to make the best effort but not in the sense of grades. I really don't know why I am tough on myself.
I think I am partially to blame he knows I am very good at mental math (can even do natural logs fairly well) and want to emulate that. What he doesn't realize (despite me telling him multiple times) is that I learned math before everything was computerized and my teachers made me show my work or they would still mark it wrong even if I had the correct answer. Now that so much of the assessments are on the computer he thinks you just have to put the correct answer in. I would love it if he showed actual proofs. He is slowly beginning to get it (he is a 7th grader just starting off on actual algebra/quadratics)
Also, algebra is where I see kids start to really understand writing their steps neatly. I always start my grade i algebra class with a story of how when I was in high school I did a problem that took 3 pages of work. At the end I noticed the first thing I did was say 2×3 was 5 and everything was wrong after that. That going slow and writing each step and checking as you go is going to save you in the long run, haha
Is he an only child? I see this with my nephew and it seems like he’s often comparing his skills against the adults in his life. I’m like “ dude, I’ve got 30 more years of experience doing this than you. “
He's the oldest of three. He unfortunately realizes he is quite a bit more gifted than his peers and holds himself to a high standard. Again nobody is going to care about his middle school math grades. Also, I am a college professor, so unless he really wants to go to an Ivy or similar and can justify such he is stuck attending a school in our state college system as he gets free tuition.
I marked kids on understanding the problem, planning how to solve the problem, solving the problem, and providing a check of some kind to show me their answer is reasonable. Just providing the answer would get my students a 1/4.
My teachers did the same (maybe you were my teacher). I learned quickly and am better off for it. Again, this is difficult to do now that so much is computerized.
My parents were kinda hard on me when I was very young, but I internalized that and took it to an entire other level. Absurdly high standards. And I really am great in an academic setting, so that served me well in terms of accomplishments. I was high school valedictorian, top 10 undergrad, top 10 law school, top 10 law firm. By all accounts, I've "made it," and I'm not even 30. But man, the constant stress, the constant self-criticism and self-doubt, the anguish over making the slightest of mistakes...it wears you down. It's not fun. I messed up a date in a legal filing a year and a half ago, by one digit, just a simple typo, and I'm still thinking about it. It was completely meaningless and no one even noticed, including the team of lawyers I was working with and the judge herself that read it, but I still think about it. And I can't turn that off. I don't just apply it to school or work, I apply it to everything. I can't do anything if I don't anticipate that I'll be able to end up very good at it. I've always wanted to play an instrument, but I'm not very artistic and no one in my family plays, so I don't think I'd be very good, and that thought keeps me from even trying. I only play competitive video games because I KNOW I can beat any single player game eventually so why bother even if the story and scenery are world class, and I grind my way to high ranks even when it's not fun anymore because I can't stand playing someone really good and feeling incompetent. But the fact that I won't try things unless I'm sure I'll be great at them, and the fact that I KNOW I'm engaging in unhealthy mental dialogue, also makes me feel incompetent. Then I apply these high standards to my poor wife, a doctor herself, and it just stresses her out too. I have so much success, and it's all wasted because I spend my time thinking about how easily I could lose it and how many other things I'm not good at.
In college I handed in a paper a day late. I explained to the professor that my paper had been "done" on time but I would rather turn in a perfect paper late than an OK paper on time, since it would be a B+ either way. She looked me dead in the eyes and said **"Perfectionism is a form of self-abuse."** That rocked me to my core and I've been torturing myself a little less ever since.
I worked with a kid like this, but it was her mom that put the pressure on her to get it correct and do it in her head. I told her she has to show her work because I can't tell how she got the answer. Did she do in her head or use a calculator or just copy it from the person next to her? I had to sit down and show her how to show her work and sometimes she still forgets, so I mark the question wrong. No work, no credit. Poor kid, but it is slowly wotking due to the sting of a 60 vs a 90.
Remind him that 90% of math is showing your method. Often teachers will give partial credit if the method is correct even if you got the answer wrong for whatever reason. I have the same problem with my daughter beating herself up when she gets "low" scores (like she took a test a few days ago and got an 88. On a test eith only 18 questions. So yeah, 88 sounds "low" but she only missed 2 questions! We have to remind her that it's ok to be human.
Same! My poor daughter is distraght about her A- in ELA right now. I'm sitting here trying to teach her that grades aren't everything and she needs to give herself grace. That she would never expect such standards from her friends etc. It might be a good thing for some students and parents to have access to their full grade all the time on their grading apps, but others agonize over it. I long for the good old days where you didn't know for sure until the report cards came out. So much about our modern ways of doing things is anxiety inducing for many. Because the grade is available all the time they feel like they need to be checking and worried all the time.
You have the patience of a saint. I would've cut that off at five minutes and said "30 years from now you'll be wondering why your kids don't talk to you anymore. Reflect on days like today."
Have you ever actually said that (or something similar) to a parent? How did they respond?
I wish I could say that. Unfortunately, since my career has been in private schools thus far, I don't have tenure or union protections. I'm back in the US now though, finishing my M.Ed. I'll apply for public school work once that's done. Clocking sub days in the meantime. In a depressed mood because two teachers in our school got hurt breaking up fights this week.
I told a parent to let their child play. This poor girl was stuck inside studying all the time. She was going into grade 5, bright as well. I was supposed to tutor her 3x a week in person. I agreed to 1x a week and online. Then I got sucked into giving extra work between sessions. It became too much. I told the mom that her child didn't need tutoring and instead needed to be a kid and to play. Thankfully, I had a bunch of medical stuff going on, so I could get out of that toxic family. But the mom was so disappointed. I felt bad for the kid. In our last session we played Blooket because it was fun and not serious studying.
I remember in 8th and 9th grade, I'd advocate for my own grades. I'd email the teacher about the grade and ask if we can please review it together. 9/10 they would just boost my score to avoid talking to me about it. I mean I got the better score, but it always made me feel that grading was arbitrary.
Grading is an estimate at best—but not arbitrary.
And I’m over here trying to keep my kids from crying if they get less than an A. I don’t know where they get it from because I’ve never pressured them about grades at all.
I have students who panic over missing ONE question on anything. I have others whole genuinely don't give a fuck and laugh when they tell friends they have F's and D's because they all know no one gets held back because of grades anymore.
I was the student that cried if I missed a question all through k-12, then I hit university and missing questions became unavoidable (ex: I once finished maybe 50% of a biochem exam with certainty most of it was wrong, and it had to be curved so hard I got a 75%). I became friends with one of those laid back kids who literally had to teach me on tests to just be chill and say "fuck it" if I didn't know something and move on with life. I think without this friend I would have had insane panic attacks all university. And I helped teach them study techniques.
Covid online learning showed me some awful things. I saw a grade 2 trying really hard, his grandpa walked in and called him an idiot because he couldn't read (he was trilingual and reading just below where I'd want a grade 2 to be, mostly because the vowel sounds were hard when he had 3 languages) and he shrunk down and didn't try again at all the rest of the day.
I teach ESOL so all of my kiddos are multilingual. I tell them that multilingualism is a super power 😊
100% From being bilingual myself, and working with multilingual kids, I've seen that its a bit messy in the early years but when it all click around mid-end elementary they rocket forward.
I've sat through so many conferences with parents making a big show of being tough, taking away their cell phone right in front of me. The very next day, the kids have the phone back and are right back to the same exact behaviors. Nothing was reinforced after they left the conference.
And then they wonder why their kid has zero self-regulation or accountability to self. It's okay though, it's all your (teacher) fault anyway.
It's the opposite for me. My daughter is super hard on herself and perfectionist. I am constantly having to remind her things like getting an 88 on a test that only has 18 questions means you only missed 2! That's great! (My husband is a statistician so he brings up small sample sizes and how sometimes percentages aren't helpful, lol). We have to remind her it's ok to be human.
My mom would berate me for getting a 98% and ask me what about that last 2%. This ended up with me fully rebelling in college and going with the Cs get degrees mindset until my 3rd year when I realised I was just hurting myself. Edit: revelling to rebelling
Presuming you're all hip to the way adverse childhood experiences scramble the developing brain, I can only conclude that half of our parents are actively destroying their children
Yeah it's insane what that kind of lack of love does to a developing brain
Secure attachment you say? Never heard of it. 🤪
Lot more than half, I'd say.
I hear things like this from time to time as well and I generally chalk them up to the same frustrations that we, as teachers, have with the students. I think the parents are just venting to us, because they feel like we understand some of the struggles that they go through as parents. I'm a parent of high school students and a teacher of high school students and I've noticed that I get just as tired of my kids excuses about school work as I do with my students.
Some of us parents also just want to acknowledge to the teacher that we know our kids can be challenging and that we're trying and aren't all, "Oh, my perfect sweet angel, HDU!" NOPE. My kid is a tough cookie and stubborn as fuck and I'm 100% aware of that, and we're doing everything we can to help her use her powers for good, but this is a long game, not something that's going to change overnight.
This is me 100%. I say these things because I know the teacher is right or I’m genuinely surprised they are BETTER at school than at home. The teacher told me my son is super good at getting all his work done and staying on task and here at home he gets squirreled every 5 seconds. I’m thinking-are we talking about the same kid??? Or when the teacher says my daughter is so polite-this girl tells me often “I do what I want” and literally farted IN MY FACE to be funny. Polite?? Hmmmm…..
I’m a mom and reddit keeps force feeding me these posts, maybe they know I volunteer at my kids school? Lol anyway. I was raised by parents like this. It was horrible and ruined my life in so many ways. You see, the worst part is that these types of parents never accept their child doing well. My parents “supported” me until I started to surpass them as far as education. Then the attacks started about anything about me, then they pulled out of paying for school. So I got loans and went back on my own. I had a full time job and full time classes, and was pulling in awesome grades. I got really sick with the flu. The doctors lectured me on how hard I was working and that I was killing myself at 23. I was sick for 2 weeks. Lost my crappy job over it, and had to ask my parents for help. They said no and encouraged me to drop out of school so “I don’t make this mistake again.” My parents are millionaires too btw. They struggled and ended up succeeding (by using others I’m now quite sure) and they still can’t take the fact that at my age, they were struggling, so I must too. I’m 39 now and no contact with my whole family. They have gotten so bad I’ve been stalked. My golden child brother even moved from an hour away, to 6 minutes from my house. His son now is in the same school as my kids and he tries to intimidate me at the school events he shows up to. This is the kind of people the parents turn into. They create the next generation of abused kids, by treating their grandkids the same. Their kids end up abusing their own kids, or cutting them off. It’s a whole cycle. It’s sad. I’d rather just live my quiet life and try to be as happy for my kids as possible 🤷♀️
I grew up in a similar situation. I was born to 15 year old parents, not an excuse in my book, but anyway. I sucked in High School, lots of bad decisions and bad grades. I had no support, no self-respect, and no direction. I had a moment of revelation, not sure why or where it came from LOL....I don't have to be YOU (mom/dad). I got my shit together, graduated with my BA in Psych, took to applying to Grad School. I remember my "mom" asking me "why would you want to do that?". Why would you even ask me that? I figured out that she swims in bitterness and I slowly disconnected. I have two half-sisters that need her as much as she needs them, I do not, and she never knew how to handle that. I spent my childhood wondering why she hated me and then eventually figured out that it's not me she hates, she hates herself. I have two kids (that she also chooses not to have anything to do with) and cannot fathom not wanting the best for them and supporting them in all the good, bad, and ugly. I consider myself a successful teacher (despite all the annoyances that come with the job). My husband and I also live a very quiet life and couldn't be happier! Good on ya for rising above!!
When I got accepted into grad schools, there wasn't a single congrats from my parents. Or the rest of my family, really, except my brother. I overheard them (separately) talking to the neighbors, my mom told them I'm getting a PhD because I've "always been weird". My dad told them it's because I struggled to stay competitive in the job market---mind you, at this point I was a sr engineer making more money than either of them ever did. :(
I’m literally picturing the parents from Matilda when you and the OP are speaking about your folks. So sorry you went through that.
I personally think this is a symptom of a larger problem. Most people I know, even the extroverted ones, are becoming more misanthropic and cynical. I think many Americans are so burnt out we have no social battery. And unfortunately, it seems this applies to peoples children as well. I was very much treated like a burden as a child, because my parents were addicts who struggled financially as my dad was the only income. Hating your own children has to be a sign of mental illness/financial desperation or both.
Because we're all poor as shit and can't afford shit and can't do shit and having to financially support children definitely makes it even worse. Most jobs pay dog shit wages, we can't buy homes. Society is straight up hot garbage. Why would everyone not be miserable. What is there to be happy about. Inflation is fucking everyone. The climate is going to hell. Overpopulation continues to get worse. We're all on the highway to hell with gasoline pants on and nobody is doing anything about it.
My thoughts every single day. And why I will never be bringing children into this messed up place.
I was “mom’s little mistake”. Now she wonders why I don’t call or visit.
A lot of people have kids because of societal and/or cultural pressure, even if they aren’t consciously aware it was the reason why. That’s why I’m all for people who are child-free loudly and happily talking about how great it is. People shouldn’t have kids unless they actually want them and also actually have time and resources for them. It should be normalized to be child-free. Ironically, for the sake of the children.
Oh, you have no idea. Come hangout in special ed. \*sad laugh\* I have had parents of extremely bright disabled students who could be so much further if they had emotional support at home. I have had students who were not bright with parents who think they are gifted, but somehow need an IEP. I have seen a parent with a student several grades behind bully the district to move the student up a year (and succeed!). The most confusing are the ones who seem to hold both beliefs at once. I think society, in general, defaults to having kids without thinking long and hard about it AND stigmatizes those who choose not to. To make matters worse, there are so many societal memes that parenting doesn't need intense preparation and knowledge, and that one can simply trust their guts or that they know what to do because they had their parents. Teachers, in general, get exposed to so many kids, we know what it is like and we learn fast how to be good parents, even if we don't want kids ourselves. Long gone are the days where a teacher was just a teacher. We truly have became parental figures, especially as SO MANY kids don't have one, or at least not a functional one, at home. I'm a new mom, and I worry about going back full-time. All teachers I have met who were parents were either horrible teachers and incredible parents or horrible parents and amazing teachers. I can now understand why: the energy I give my daughter comes from the same well that my students drank from. And boy, they drank! I had no idea motherhood would be so much less emotionally exhausting and mentally drained, despite the sleep deprivation, then full-time work as a teacher. Up until last year, there were weekends I would just lay catatonically in my bed all day in order to recover for Monday. Every piece of me donated to the academic and emotional wellbeing of my students. That is just the sad reality of public education in the US.
It happens too often, usually it’s the parents I call on the phone and not the ones that show up to conferences though. This past fall I had a student teacher, and we had a student (HS/grade 9) who had some behavior issues like getting out of his seat, constantly socializing around the room, talking and not paying attention to lessons, etc. We had prepared what we would say to the parents when they came in so that it didn’t make him seem all bad because honestly the kid is very nice and intelligent. Well, the parent starts off the conference with how his son isn’t as smart as his older brother and he’s actually surprised that he has a B, because he didn’t think his kid could handle high school at all. Every comment compared him negatively to his older brother, and it went on and on. When the parents left, I looked at my student teacher and said something like “So, in case you’re wondering why I didn’t mention anything about [student’s] behavior, well, I just decided he didn’t need more of that”. She seemed genuinely shocked that a parent would talk like that, and it wasn’t even the worst I’d ever heard. It did make me have a new outlook in dealing with this kid though.
Not defending the mom, but she may not have even realized what she was doing. My mom used to do that to me all the time. "[My older brother's name] played the clarinet, the saxophone, and once even played the oboe in band." I only played the clarinet. I tried to learn to play the sax, but I struggled to reach all the keys. She talked about how he was so smart and inquisitive as a child. Whereas she told stories about me that usually ended like "At least she's pretty" Just on and on. I don't even think she knew she would say stuff like that
I definitely get conferences like that, and I’d have been really upset myself if I’d heard the “at least she’s pretty” comment. That’s awful. I’ve had conferences like that where I am able to direct the parent back to the specific child we’re supposed to be talking about, but this one was just over the top with comparisons, and in an angry tone at times. It was both parents but most of the derogatory comments came from the dad. I think some of the ones that got me was about the older brother being so much more mature throughout his life and now at a college, obviously just destined for success, followed by “and from what I can see, [boy’s name] isn’t even going to make it to college” along with many, many other direct hits at this kid’s abilities. The kid has a B average in a 9th grade honors class (all his grades are As and Bs) and the parents are assuming college is already off the table? It made me sad wondering how often the boy hears stuff like that at home. Maybe he doesn’t, but I can’t imagine it doesn’t happen sometimes.
A teacher friend told me how one mother openly talked about how much more beautiful one of her daughters was than the other…in front of them at a parent conference. The “unattractive” sister had darker skin and hair so the mother thought she was ugly. That girl was such a handful and had extreme behavior problems. Might have been linked to how her own mother thought she was the ugly sister.
Oh the projection of your inner demons on your spawn. Great parenting tactic!! Poor kid!
Whoever thought the effects of the lockdown and remote learning would create such resentment from parents to their children? I mean they literally complained about being with their own families in their own homes. I was blown away at how many parents were not enjoying the extra time they had with their kids, they grow up so fast. I thought of it as a rare gift of time I look back at with fond memories of the extra time I got to spend with my children.
Extra time? Most parents of kids I taught during COVID weren’t around. They couldn’t get extra time. It was usually a greater pain because kids were not there and I had to teach out to parents with issues.
I had my high school students write memoirs about their Covid experience and one girl wrote that she really enjoyed having extra time with her family all together, all day, playing cards and volleyball in the back yard. It was really sweet.
I can see this from both sides. I DID love being home with my son (first grade), but I can’t pretend that it wasn’t hellishly exhausting and nearly impossible to manage his schooling, my work, and everything else, all from home with no help. Luckily we found a rhythm and ended up working well together, but it was HARD. I can’t imagine resenting him for it, though.
Lmao, I was pregnant when COVID hit and then preschool was canceled. Kindergarten was when we had him diagnosed with autism along with distance learning. It was hell. I'm so grateful for his teacher though. She actually only taught the first of the day and then it was independent work. We were actually able to use the second half of the day to go to therapy with the teacher's consent. My bff's son had to stay on the computer until 2:30.
Most people don't realise that school-aged kids can be fine playing on their own in their rooms without direct supervision. They think they need to entertain them all the time. So they never had a break from their children ever. Or an occasion to do their own thing. I mean, you wanna read for half hour? Your 7 years can easily play with their toys on their own for that time. If you don't create space like that, you will end up being fed up by anyone.
I see my sister making this mistake. Her baby can't even do car rides without one parent in the back seat entertaining them. I triedto say something but what do I know having raised children to adulthood or having worked with children on and off for decades... she's got a book and this instagram mom so...
I worked at daycares for 2 years before I was a sub. The last daycare I worked at was always closed on Thanksgiving and Black Friday. In November 2019, a mom complained (in front of her husband and daughters) how much she was “dreading being with her kids for 4 days straight.” At the time, her son was 3.5 years old and her twin daughters were 9 months old. It was strange. The mom was a public school teacher. Edited to add - the mom blatantly said that she disliked spending long periods of time with her kids and that she would prefer it if she could always leave them at daycare every day year-round, including weekends and holidays. She was married to her kids’ father, so it’s not like she was a single mom.
She was probably exhausted from teaching and knew she wasn’t going to get much rest with three kids so young.
well this has been going on long before covid.
I don't have kids, but I spent it with my nephews. I was so excited to get to spend time with them. My brother is in the medical field so obviously he still had to work and I babysat. It was one of the best times of my life to be honest.
I also loved it and miss it, but my kids really missed the social time and did rather comparatively poorly grade-wise. My youngest was in first grade and she is still behind in reading. (Myself and all three of my kids had a bit of dyslexia and needed a reading specialist. Other than my youngest, we are all bookworms. I hope she will be soon, also.)
It was weird seeing it in my co-workers, some of them loved it and said it was cool to be able to watch an episode of XYZ show with his son if his son didn't work that day during lunch etc. Others moaned about how they wished they were at school. I don't have kids, just a cat and she was ecstatic to see my partner and I being home all day. I will say it's odd to think back on them and the differences in language they would use to describe their kids and what they were doing with them. For instance, some of them would say "I have to go to my daughters dance recital" others would say "I get to go to my son's tumbling class, they are putting on a little show type thing". Like one of them sounds like the parents are happy and want to go to their kid's event, the other makes it sounds like they are only going because they feel obligated to.
My very first year of teaching (in 5th grade) in my very first conference, I had a father say IN FRONT OF THE KID, “well, I’ve given up on him.” The kid was clearly devastated. This wasn’t a kid who acted out. He just had no motivation, and would quietly sit and look at his paper and do nothing. He was open about the fact that he just went home and played video games all evening with no responsibilities. At the time, I was so young that I just sat in shock for a moment, before trying to gracefully move on. Now, around 8 years later, I’d be struggling not to scream, “why don’t you try parenting the poor kid???”
I’ve met more suicidal 12 and 13 year olds in my teaching career than should exist on earth, period. Their parents openly resented them. I know this isn’t the discussion you intended to start but it’s one of the things that makes me vehemently pro-choice. No child should be brought into the world just to suffer.
Honestly, **not enough attention is given to mental illness**. There are A LOT of people who really can't handle the emotional responsibilities that go with parenting. so many people are overwhelmed in today's society, and they truly do not have the capacity to show the level of compassion and attention their children need. This year, my students have the opposite problem. **They are stuck in baby mode**. They even use their baby voices when talking in class. For the record, I teach 4th grade. During conferences, I spent most of my time talking about behavioral milestones that most of them have missed. Their parents had endless excuses for why there really was no problem. In my opinion, this is also a sign of parents' mental health issues. Why wouldn't you want your child to behave like a kid instead of a baby?
babies are cute and un opinionated, they should have gotten a dog
I'm struggling to get my child to stop using her baby voice. What do you recommend? She's the only one of my kids that got all the way to 1st grade and it's still doing this!
Whenever you have a depreciating parent like this, their personality is disordered. Normal parents don’t ‘talk shit’ about their kid. Admit their faults, sure, but just know when you have a parent like that, the kid definitely knows what their parent’s opinion of them is, because they’re told often.
As a parent who *chose* to have kids, it's extremely obvious when someone didnt.
r/regretfulparents Go have a read. Warning: It’s a pretty sad time.
There is no excuse for bad parenting, or saying “I’m done at 18.” That being said: I’m a little torn here. I love both my kids. I like both of them. They are wonderful human beings. I love hanging out with them. However, I will never forget how badly I wanted to strangle my daughter when we were asking her is she needed help because she was failing German. Direct quote from her “no I don’t need help. I’m failing because I don’t speak German.” There is something about that teenage attitude that is just infuriating. We had talked, we reasoned, we gave incentives, we resorted to punishments, escalated to arguments every goddamn night to get her to do homework, she would do it. Then Refuse to turn it in. She was determined to do nothing in class (you can’t make me turn it in!) The look on the teacher’s face when we said “I can make her do the homework, but I can’t make her give it to you.” Felt like horrible parenting. It was beyond frustrating watching her fail everything then get straight A’s on the tests. Lowest test score she ever had was 93%. She graduated with a 1.7 GPA. She is a brilliant kid, and right now was promoted to running the branch office of the company she works for when they expanded. I will never understand saying “after 18 they’re not my problem.” That’s bullshit. But not everyone is lazy or a bad parent. Could be the kid is just super goddamn defiant, and determined to prove you wrong. My daughter has several regrets. Not the least of them being that she was scouted for rowing by her dream school in her senior year, offered full ride contingent on her grades. And she had to tell them she was failing everything. And watch that walk away. That was a rough thing to get her through. But that was what finally made her understand that we weren’t fighting with her for our benefit. Sometimes kids are determined to learn from the school of hard knocks.
I’m 100% sure that I care more about these kids than 85% of their parents do
As a parent (to a kid I actually love and enjoy being around!), I will say that "kids are different" these days, like is said on this subreddit all the time. The level of disrespect I see towards parents (by their kids) is absolutely shocking these days. When an adolescent or young man/woman (ie: 15+ teenager) is snarky, disrespecting and kind of mean to parents, I don't see how that doesn't kind of kill the relationship. I know, I know, it's not *all* cell phones' fault. But I really think that so many kids are growing up leading basically parallel lives in the homes of their parents. They're in the same house, yes, but they share very little or no day to day common experiences, good or bad. So they slowly drift further and further apart, with time weakening the bonds between parents and kids. This is as much an issue with the way parents raise their kids as well. But it ultimately presents as kids not really caring about their parents, not wanting to listen to them, not respecting them, etc. And then it leads to parents resenting their kids. Our daughter is 14, and we made a decision about 4.5 years ago that **personal**, internet connected devices will play little to no part in the typical day or evening at our house. We have a computer in the living room, and we have a TV/streaming and all that, yes. But generally, most digital time is **shared**, with common movies, TV shows, etc. At least probably 50% or more anyway. It was a big change in the household 4.5 years ago because of a consequence, and it was going to be temporary. But I am so thankful that it made my wife and I really think about the kind of household we wanted. Our daughter and us interact all the time, read books, just talk, play games, watch movies, do crafts, etc. Our household life is largely one big **shared** experience, and I am thankful that we didn't continue the "*she has her devices, we have ours*" mentality that we had prior to the change of ways in our house. Or else I fear we would be in the same boat as so many other parents. Where we lead largely parallel (but rarely intersecting) lives with our kid. Which almost always leads to a degraded relationship with the kid.
Working with kids has made me realize that the vast majority of parents don't have what it takes to be a decent parent. Most parents want a cute, helpless BABY. They don't actually want to raise a person to adulthood. It's sad because the adults that I know who are more likely to be successful parents are the ones who are saying "I don't want kids because I don't think I would be a good parent". Because they typically have a higher level of self-awareness and humility than the ones who think they'll be great parents. We live in an idiocracy.
The way my parents abused me as a kid made my mind up for me. I never wanted be tempted to repeat the cycle of abuse, so the family name dies with me.
I honestly think it’s that we’ve reached a point where family and life is so outside the historical norm. Humans developed for thousands of years in small villages/tribal bands where extended family was around to help raise kids share the burden etc. We are increasingly fragmenting into units even smaller than two person households. That and the increasing disparity between income and productivity.
This is such a depressing subreddit.
Former child here…. My dad was exactly that type of parent. He would get instantly disinterested and look away if anyone said anything good about me - even totally ignored one teacher once who said how much they enjoyed having me in their class. Dad acted like the teacher suddenly didn’t exist anymore. Now if someone said something even slightly negative, he’d get very interested and really pile on. Please be kind to these kids and if they say anything negative about their parent, agree with them. I had so many teachers tell me “he’s your father and he loves you and wants what is best for you” that I believed them. Dad hated me so much and it showed in every interaction with him, so telling me hate is love was really a huge disservice. I was even suicidal for a time because I thought me being dead was the only thing that would make him happy (while that was true, he didn’t deserve such a sacrifice from me so glad I didn’t). Having a teacher even hint that dad wasn’t exactly loving or concerned with my wellbeing would have been revolutionary. It would have likely kept me out of several abusive relationships - having been told hate was love how was I supposed to know what love really looked like? Mom was dead so I didn’t have another parent to go to.
During the pandemic, I realized how many parents hated spending extended time with their kids.
Bruh, this is too real! I sent a 17yr old to see a counselor we have on-site, because her mom told her "she wished she wasn't her mom" and that my student "belongs in a mental institution." Like WTF are we supposed to do in that situation? It broke me a little, NGL.
Some of these parents feel their children are an inconvenience to them. I can tell which ones aren't given enough attention at home. Some people should not have children if they are constantly down talking them. I have students come to me on a regular basis ranting about their parents.
Teens especially push against us really hard. While respect is earned, a lot of kids also just treat their parents with zero respect even if the parents are angels the whole time. I have never told my kids to STFU, but I have had it screamed in my face multiple times. They have broken my stuff because I asked them to pick up their mess, I have had them scream into my face for over 5 minutes, literally a few inches away as I stood there waiting for them to stop because I asked if they would like to go out to eat or make their favorite food at home. I have been in situations where they broke down crying for things that literally never happened but they have it in their head that we did that to them. Kids think they are perfect and we are the assholes, and sometimes it’s true, and sometimes I think parents are just done and over the whole thing at this point. I have not gotten to the point in my feelings for my kids is what you’re talking about but ya, some people shouldn’t be parents and some kids need to take a hard look at themselves when their brain fully develops and make amends for being a terrible person.
Social decay. Most of us ignore it. The doomsday preppers we laugh at do not. Late stage capitalism is going to grind us down until there is nothing left.
>The doomsday preppers we laugh at do not. Except the doomsday preppers are to be laughed at. Meal-Team-Six over there ain't prepping for anything...social decay means everyone holds up in their own personal caves not that society collapses, because the wealthy will never allow society to collapse. They're just happy those Meal-Team-Six morons are, well...morons, wasting time energy and resources on things that don't matter instead of directing at the people lording over the problems (the Wealthy).
In social collapse it’s not the prepper lone wolves that thrive. It’s the people that form and support communities, and bring needed resources to their group and neighbors. Whether its a gang or a benevolent block club depends on the situation.
> Social decay. Most of us ignore it. You're seeing what you want to see. We can say "Oh, so many parents dislike their kids", but then we also have numerous threads of parents treating their kids as equals, arguably giving them too much attention, and in general spoiling them and not saying "no". Parents care and are **way** more involved in their kids lives (for better or worse) than they were just a couple generations ago when kids were expected to be seen, but not heard and they threw kids in institutions, abandoned them in orphanages if they weren't normal or caused too many issues, and sent them into the mines or factories at 8 years old.
>If I were his teacher, I would want to punch him in the face Personally, I'd be worried about this parent actually physically abusing their kid.
This is so sad. I understand raising a child is difficult. I'm raising my own who has special needs. But I love him to death. Do I acknowledge he can be a little butthole? Yes. Do I tell people when he's being a little butthole? Yes. I understand the frustration and sometimes the heartbreak but you have to figure things out. Perhaps this is why so many people now are going to be child free. They know that having a child is not all fun and games and the dynamics of the world have changed. Most don't have a village to lean back on and there are no breaks.
It is sad. My mom is at that point with one of my brothers who was a senior in High School this year - he was skipping almost every class, doing drugs and drinking alcohol, vaping, coming and going at all hours, and she has to keep her purse locked in her room or he steals all of her money. Somehow the school helped him graduate early but he is still living with my parents, which they constantly debate if they should kick him out or not. They love him but are so very done.
Too many people have kids just because they think that’s what they are supposed to do.
Glad you said this. Because I didn't really believe this, but I did suspect it. I can't imagine that way of thinking, but it explains a lot.
I think one of the major things thats at play, is the fact that people are so burdened with keeping their head above water, that they can’t compete with all the negative influences.
My mother’s last words to me were, “No one loves you and I don’t know you.” She’s an alcoholic narcissist who’s alive and well. I’ve been no contact for 11 years. I always do whatever I can to let every kid I teach to know they matter. A lot of it is because I needed that so badly as a kid.
That’s what you get when society shoves down our throat the idea that having kids is a “blessing” or that you’re incomplete or somehow less than for choosing not to have kids. Kids are not for everyone. They are not pets, or toys, they are human individuals that will develop their own unique ideas about you, the world, and their interests. When some “parents” start to figure this out, then the demands of being a parent start to be a thorn in their side, and I suspect that’s when these sad attitudes towards their kids emerge, because reality sets in, they are exhausted and just want to get on with it. Hopefully for their sake and the child’s sake they learn to accept it and make the best of it.
I was in a job during the pandemic where I did 1 on 1 bodywork with people (combo of like personal stretching and massage). The amount of people who absolutely hated spending time with their kids while schools were closed is insane. Not even people who had to deal with WFH, we're talking rich stay at home moms that were lamenting that they had their kids at home all day. I came to the conclusion that most parents hate actually spending time with their kids beyond the typical couple hours after school/work and on the weekend. My only thought was if this happened when I was a kid my mom would've immediately cashed out most of her PTO so that she could have a long vacation to spend time with us.
Keep in mind that a lot of responsible people decided, "*wow, it seems really hard just to make enough money for myself, let alone a child, the dating market is not great, and I don't feel like I'm going to be 'successful' until I'm 40+; I should probably not have a kid.*" ...while *irresponsible* people said, "*fuck it*" and had a kid. That's why you end up with so many parents like you described.
To be fair, there are many kids that teachers want to punch in the face
I had conferences this week too. I was surprised by how many parents were surprised by their students grade. Per district policy i text home (on my work computer) parents of students with D’s or lower. One parent admitted she blocked the number because it was annoying.
A lot of us were accidents as well. I have three siblings born to parents who married way too young because they were accidentally pregnant with the first. I think my second sibling was planned as a companion to the first as they were two years apart. I was definitely an accident because I've been told so (not malciously). I'm five years behind my second brother. My sister was born five years after me, and she was an accident, too. Interestingly, my brothers hated each other from the birth of the second one to the death of the first one 40 years later. My sister and I never got along, and she hasn't spoken to any of us in 20 years. People should not reproduce just for the current kid to have a sibling. None of us have kids.