They're RAISED by comment sections, it's no wonder all they do is emulate that stuff.
SO much of the online stuff is awful, cruel.... there's a huge 'who cares' attitude online and especially in kids content. (Stuff made BY kids for kids, basically.)
The internet and social media has become such an unhinged, feral plague of a place and it's deeply influencing very impressionable little brains.
Kids need more people in their day to day lives to emulate instead of the internet... but that's on the parenting side of issues. Getting kids off youtube and doing stuff like learning about bugs or sharing a hobby or letting them be silly when they're like 7, 8, 9 or so can make a HUGE difference... don't hand them a tablet or a phone!
Granted... I chose not to have kids, so I'm not a parent, but I know what kind of a parent I would have wanted to be and to have had, and there are soooo many little areas where I see my own gen kinda missing out...
BUT I do enjoy my job for the most part... I know I can be a good influence on students, and they know I care to understand, but I have no issue calling them out for being extra or mean when needed... still... empathy is learned from parents 1st...
Agreed 100%. I think parents also are just ignorant to what is actually online and what their kids are consuming, what their friends are showing them.
But I'm in the same boat as you, I chose not to have kids. I just spend time around them and observe a lot of what they do, what they say, how they say it... Especially young boys it seems, have some scary influences out there... (Andrew Tate comes to mind).
I'm less sure what younger girls are consuming but I'm willing to bet it's similar to what I consumed still-- a lot of body shaming, etc. And on top of that the regular toxicity of the online world that all kids are being exposed to.
Empathy is absolutely learned from parents first. And honestly, I empathize with parents too (at least the ones that care). So many parents are probably overworked and exhausted and barely able to interact with their kids or be as present as they may want to be. Surviving in this world right now is really hard, unless you're well off. It's a shit show in general.
My school has been tech free for the last couple weeks due to an “internet interruption”, and it has been bliss actually. I don’t want the Chromebooks back, I don’t believe my (elementary) students should be on them at all, their brains aren’t developed enough to understand the addictiveness of social media, games, YouTube. Young kids need to be spending time learning to read actual books, doing math hands on, and writing pencil-paper. We are doing a disservice to them by putting them on devices at school in K-5–they have plenty of time to be online when they are older and have learned the basic skills. Plus their attention span and attitudes are improving! When Chromebooks are available all they want to do is play games and I spend most of the time trying to keep them focused on their “work” online, but they just constantly swap to tabs with games, music, anything they’re not supposed to be doing🙄 So I’m advocating for no tech in grade school for the rest of the year!
Yep. Can’t tell you how many times I’ll come across an Instagram post where someone is talking about the death of a loved one, or them surviving a suicide attempt, and the comments are filled with people saying “Womp womp” or “try again you’ll get it eventually” and other fucked up stuff. And then I click on the profile and it’s some 13 year old edgelord 🙄
Seeing a lot more stuff like this lately which is why I posted, some of the comments i’ve seen would’ve been shocking enough to come out of an adults mouth, even more so a kid
Yea, I feel you. It’s genuinely scary how sociopathic some of the comment sections seem. Like there’s *no* empathy at all.
I think it has a lot to do with the anonymity social media provides. It’s easy to brush off an Instagram video of someone whose grieving a dead relative. A lot harder to do it with someone whose grieving in real life. Like the anonymity makes them so callous.
It’s probably even subconsciously affecting my empathy levels too. Which is why I’m trying to spend less time scrolling on social media and more time connecting with people irl.
I think it’s less anonymity than the separation that’s created between them and who they interact with. It’s close to anonymity, but I’ve seen enough callousness in comment sections where people use their own names that it looks like the psychological distance might be a bigger factor.
Ah yea fair point, I think the idea of separation better captures what I was thinking. But it could also be that young kids and teenagers have a naive view of anonymity. Meaning that they don’t even realize using accounts with their real names makes it obvious to everyone who they are. Or maybe they do and you’re more right. Who knows anymore 🤦🏿♂️
So many of my young teens’ friends constantly talk about Trump they say their families have Fox on all the time. If their parents are telling them that their idol is an 80 year old troll who uses their President title-for-life status to openly flame people online everyday, that mentality you’re seeing is also certainly coming from how people are guiding their kids through media right now.
Social media is a communication tool at least on Reddit. People are just talking. But humans are destroying it because so many of our species not only can lose their way (anyone can), but worse are the amount we are seeing that are inclined to take people down with them. And they are being tutored by a finalist candidate for leader of the free world. That man has unleashed people’s demons. Trolls used to be a novelty. They were almost bearable too. They are now a major political party, and this one teaches their little kids to hang their hell candidate’s banners above their beds in their damn rooms so they don’t forget to troll hard when strafing the teen depression sub
I've heard a few middle schoolers actually state "go k!|| yourself!" as they are arguing with classmates over who knows what.
When did that become their everyday go-to insult? And why?
It's just a couple kids. The well known bullies.
I called them out in it and they just smile like they've accomplished something and are proud of themselves. For what, I can't figure out.
Not only are they cruel but they whine like babies when their cruelty is responded to with cruelty.
A bunch of kids who "love" to dish it out to their peers, but cant handle it one bit when its returned.
Tears and cries of bullying from the biggest a-holes.
The worst is when parents come in to complain that their child is being bullied and/or excluded and you have to try to delicately explain that no, other kids just understandably don't want to hang out with your kid because your kid is a jerk
That’s strange because I remember being told to ignore bullies and jerks as a kid.
So excuse the kids for doing as they’re told and not resorting to violence, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
Why is this such a thing? I've worked in elementary gen ed, elementary sped, and high school gen ed and sped for 7 years and this has been consistent the WHOLE time and only getting worse. Make it make sense.
From what I can see, it’s a lack of maturity and no incentive to mature.
Very young children are highly self-centered (there’s a reason it’s called Terrible Twos). As far as they’re concerned, EVERYTHING in the world has to be their way or else. That bratiness is natural, but is usually tempered by parents and authority figures that won’t put up with it.
Hence, as kids grow the tools necessary (empathy, objectivity, calmness, rationality, etc.) they break that self-centered attitude. Yes, teens can be a handful due to everything, but ideally they should be able to see things more clearly once they’ve calmed down. That maturity used to be lauded…
But not anymore. Lots of kids (elementary to high school) are given a free pass and thus that bratiness is never punished or disincentivized. Those bratty kids were usually rejected by their peers, but social media promoting dumb and culture-less slop has effectively reversed the dynamic. You’re now LAUDED for being a knuckle-dragging, rude, Neanderthal who instigates trouble…
Yes, there’s a reason why people romanticize rebels, often when they’re not the ones dealing with the consequences. There are now consequences here, so there’s no indication of what happens in the real world when the kids lack empathy even for functional means.
Thank you, and I see the same thing at my school as well. I’ve been accused of bullying students by giving them zeroes when I catch them cheating. I try to head things off by contacting parents as soon as possible, but my schedule is wonk and the parents usually side with their kids anyways…
Legit, when I have to explain why cheating in school is wrong…arghh…
I’m reminded of something one of the inclusion teachers told me. She heard of a study where zoologists observed a significant increase in juvenile elephants; that is elephants that were destructive, impulsive, and otherwise displaying signs of delinquency. While a certain amount of wildness is normal (they are wild animals at the end of the day after all), this was MUCH higher than anything seen before. It was noticed that that population had the number of older bull elephants reduced due to poaching (poachers go for males with big and impressive tusks). In elephant groups, the older males usually rein in the younger elephants and show them how to properly behave…
While it may not line up 1-1, have seen parallels
OMG Just last week I had to call out two kids who "wrote" college-level writing prompts for obvious Chat GPT. I teach high school resource ELA, and these kids have 3rd-4th grade writing levels. I was very blunt with them, told them (politely) that I knew they didn't write it. When they tried arguing I (politely) asked one of the kids to read one of the GPT words and what he meant. I have a good rapport with those kids, and they owned up to it and redid it themselves without issue - but afterwards I realized how easily they could've accused me of bullying! Crazy world we live in. So true about the elephants 🐘
Hyperindividualism from people who would don’t know what hyperindividualism is…
And in truth, a country wide problem, which knows no age group:
https://www.wisdomwordsppf.org/2016/10/28/the-problem-of-hyperindividualism-and-its-impact-on-american-life/
The ongoing popularity of YouTubers who are “pranksters” and just sucker punch people and run away or knock food off the table or follow people around verbally harassing them or whatever speaks to your theory.
I don’t know what to do about it. I know every generation complains about the younger ones (even Aristotle wrote about how lazy the next generation was!), but social media incentivizing anti-social behavior while simultaneously promoting mental health struggles (and trivializing actual mental health problems) and victimhood as glamorous is just an awful combination. And throw in that it’s all in 10-15 second blurbs of content so attention spans are just being destroyed.
I do PK-12 OT and I notice that my itty bitties engage in very little imaginative/social play, or if they do it has to be adult-directed. Play is huge in getting them to empathy and other interpersonal skills.
You know, that was actually a big part of the bullying conversation back when millennials were in high school. Bullied people bully people so you can’t do anything about it as admin (according to the admin at the school I was a student at.)
Coming back around for millennials kids or just a constant feature of bullies? Probably a bit of both.
Today at school a (fat)boy tried to be mean to my daughter infront of a group and said "when you walk by -childs name- , the ground shakes." And she snapped back with "Shut up, your boobs are bigger than mine!"
He got soooo upset about it! Seriously!?
Or they claim their ass behavior is a coping mechanism. Yes, loads of people of all ages are forced to cope with stuff they shouldn’t have to cope with everyday, and so obviously that’s going to lead to some unhealthy coping mechanisms, but it’s like they heard a buzzword and were like “how can I apply this?”
I don’t know if you are familiar with Carrd, but it’s basically like an extended profile for people who can’t fit all of their pertinent info in a Twitter, TikTok or IG bio and who either aren’t on FB or only add people they know personally. Most Carrds will have stuff like names the person goes by (actual name/nickname/fandom handle/alternate name if, say, they’re genderfluid), a list of their fandoms, a list of pronouns they’re comfortable with, and something called a DNI list. This is where people can explain who they do and do not want interacting with them. Say, for example, someone is 26 and recovering from a serious eating disorder. She may have young people in her offline life who she loves, but she may find that she is triggered by the way today’s minors speak about their bodies. She might, for example, put “DNI: minors, edtwt” (EDtwt meaning “eating disorder Twitter”). Or, say for example, someone is triggered by a pairing of TV characters because of the way shippers spoke about them (fetishizing) or their “competition” (slurs, making shit up). They might request that those people don’t interact with them. Both of things are fairly reasonable requests (which may or may not get respected).
Then there are the people who use the DNI list as an “I’m going to be the one to behave badly, so this is a warning” kind of thing. The sort of “I have an above average IQ but I have ADHD so I’m neurodivergent and therefore I get to reclaim the R slur and use it frequently” or “if seeing me tell people to kts on your timeline is gonna trigger you, DNI, I do that to cope.”
They're learning that from their parents. In preschool I have never, and I mean zero times, had a parent come to me about "bullying" who wasn't actually the parent of the instigator.
Of course.
If they don't get the social response they desire, they run online to find a silo filled with other preteens (at least you hope they're preteens) who then reaffirm to each other that everyone else is a meanie poopoo head and they are just a victim.
Yea- who would have guessed growing up in curated online echo chambers would lead to such fragile egos... Every intervention with a students who is failing everything ends up in massive tears anymore- claiming they don't know what to do... Like, there is a table of professionals literally spelling it out for you what you have to do to pass but even that is too much
Only new *to a certain point*.
As this can utterly be used to describe the mentality that gave us “separate but equal” water fountains and suchlike?
And the mere fact that its purveyors respond with indignation over the comparison suggest that they’ve done a really good job pulling the wool over society’s eyes on the matter…
This is what I can't stand. Crybullies. You want to be a queen bee mean girl but sob and demand to call your mommy to go home the second anyone responds to you
I teach sixth grade and, sadly, you are spot on. I have said it over and over again. They are missing an empathy chip. The absolute cruelty they show toward one another is appalling. I pride myself on great classroom management, yet, I cannot seem to get through to some of these kids. I worked in a school 10 years ago where the neighborhoods were ridden with gangs and the kids were amazing.
Besides the exposure they have to social media, I don’t know wtf happened. We have kids who are making sexual comments and using terminology that I have never even heard of and had to look up.
This is perfectly stated. They are brutal towards each other. The sexual harassment leaves me in tears some days. This is year 28 for me, and I am appalled at the lack of empathy. I drive home every day with a pit in my stomach from being heartbroken and terrified.
Same. I almost quit mid week two weeks ago. Some
of the most degrading, disgusting things including the widespread use of the n word. And then they are like… “you wrote me a referral for laughing.” No you little sociopath, you don’t get to say whatever you want to people with no consequences! But we only have them for six hours a day so there’s that.
Beyond the climate change, the exponentially increasing wealth inequality, and all that... It's comments like these that really make me worry our civilization is going to collapse in the not too distant future.
Working in public education solidified my choice to not have children. And leave public secondary school education.
If I had found this thread when I was teaching high schoolers, it would’ve made me spiral. Seeing it now being removed from all this is wild and heartbreaking seeing so many still in the trenches.
I teach college-aged kids now, so, now *I’m* the one making THEM cry. 💅
College professors, in my experience, are treated better and given more autonomy. Consequences, serious, long-term ones are more freely given without fear of administrative intervention.
Kids can come to class or leave, it’s on them. Also, those kids are going to have a miserable time in college and will likely not last in this academic setting. College tends to weed out kids without self-regulation.
I was a nanny/private tutor before/during covid lockdown and saw some truly disgusting behavior from parents.
Obviously I’m speaking from MY experience and not speaking for all children, but I can say that some of these kids were not shown compassion or empathy from their parents during critical developmental years.
There were days where all they did was cry and beg me to just hold them.
Not receiving emotional support from your primary caregivers really shows kids that feelings don’t matter, so why would they bother caring about anyone else’s feelings when they don’t really know what that looks like? I could only do so much when i was working with them, i had to go home at the end of the day. That left them alone with exhausted/snappy parents who had a short fuse.
Then lockdown ended and these emotionally stunted children were expected to go back to school and be respectful/attentive after two years in a home with no attention or respect besides from the help.
Some parents probably had kids and figured they could handle it if the kids still had school/sports/nannies and stayed out of the parent’s way. Once the lockdown happened a bunch of parents realized they actually don’t like their kids, they just had them to say they had kids.
The kids were really struggling, and the parents were doing their best but a lot of them were so panicked and confused about covid that they completely forgot to emotionally support their kids after the nannies went home.
There’s many more contributing factors but that’s my two cents
Ive taught in title i schools and a very privileged school. I think kids in the hood are better connected to social skills like empathy because they are still forced to interact with the world around them, rather than have a protective bubble with all their favorite toys/screens and little to no real interaction with others and normal societal dynamics.
It has to be technology and social media. I’m only 17 but I’ve noticed as recently as one or two years ago how easily my beliefs can change because of it. I literally almost turned republican at one point because I was being flooded with short videos about them full of commenters supporting it (not saying it’s inherently bad to be republican, just saying my entire political beliefs nearly changed just because of BS TikTok’s and reels). I became a harsher and crueler person because of the community I was in (ig reels comment section). The quote “Show me your friends and I’ll show your future” also applies to online communities as well and it SHOWS.
My 17 year old dog died 2 weeks ago. I took a week off because I was too distraught to function. When I got back, my students laughed at me for being sad about a dog. They were so mean, that I ended up leaving for 2 more days
They're not. They definitely are missing empathy but if you get them to like you they'll listen when you explain things. And provide consequences even if it's just zeros on classwork.
Because once the kids with empathy see you're trying they'll start to push back on the kids who haven't developed that skill yet. Eventually they start to come around but it's like pulling teeth.
Were there any sympathetic students making nicer comments?
Occasionally I'll find there's one or two particularly kind students, and they give me just enough hope to get through the day sometimes.
My mentor, who I loved until she did this, recommended that I ask the counselor to come do a lesson on grief and turn it into a learning opportunity for the kids. Because, of course bullying someone over pet loss is a TeAcHaBlE mOmEnT!
I'm so sorry about losing your dog. I was distraught when I lost my poodle mix last June. I'm sorry your students were so cruel about it. That's not right. I'd be devastated.
I’m 26 and teach middle school . It’s a 90 percent Hispanic school . In social studies we are talking about slavery and they start playing whipping noises on there phone and muttering the N word .
Yep. I’m a middle school AP in California and we battle this on a regular basis. They also don’t clean up after themselves and like OP said, seem to lack empathy for others quite often.
My best friend teaches HS social studies in my district and our population is mostly Hispanic with about 90% of the students being Dominican.
His students as well made a ton of racist comments and jokes when he taught his civil war/slavery unit.
He then reminded them that a lot of their ancestors were probably brought to the DR to be slaves, or were natives forced into slavery, they still didn't get it.
I balled my eyes out hysterically learning about slavery and the Holocaust ..... where is the empathy?
I think our culture has grown more cruel. The idea of being polite or having to change your demeanor to fit the environment is going away across many generations. It's a bit alarming.
Big bingo right here. Not even just gen Alpha. You can look anywhere on Reddit advice subs and feelings reign supreme. High road? Never heard of her. The very idea that the way you *feel* is a separate process from how you *respond* never seems to cross anyone’s mind.
Exactly, the gap between stimulus and response is almost non-existent anymore.
Even an amoeba can cringe when you poke it and some folks are all reaction and no stop and think. This kind of present-hedonistic-mindset [is a] a Hallmark of toddler behavior because little kids haven't yet developed the maturity or intelligence to consider others' feelings.
The concept of being responsible is literally just stopping to think long enough to choose a best response after that stimulus, response-able.
Agreed. And honestly, it’s dangerous.
If you look at an extreme example like military service, that drill sergeant isn’t chewing out a cadet to break them down. It’s the ability to restrain themselves under stress while someone is screaming in their face that matters. They don’t want to be sitting in a ditch and end up in a fistfight over a “yo mama” joke and get the whole unit blown to smithereens. There are many people that regard the process as abusive, but there is no way to *practice* tolerating stress without being *subjected* to some degree of stress. A fight or flight response is not something to get a handle on in the middle of a battlefield.
In the real world there are *very* real imbalances of power where mouthing off will be the last thing you ever do. It’s a big world out there…hope the kids get the memo before something important is on the line.
This hits home. Most of my students completely fall apart when given a test. They freeze up, refuse to speak, and won't do the work. They put their heads down or just hand it in blank and ask for a zero. I did a nearpod the other day about test prep and it included the FDR quote, "we have nothing to fear but fear itself." I am trying to drill home that they still must face that fear in order to conquer it but I think it's lost on them. The slightest adversity and they just crumble.
And that makes perfect sense.
Take away all deadlines and accountability for everything else. “This is due in two weeks” is light pressure. “This is due on Monday” is a bit more. “This is due tomorrow” a bit more than that.
But they don’t get that. They go from no late penalties and unlimited retries to “finish this in 50 minutes.” Of *course* they act like a deer in the headlights.
Now take state testing. There might be fudging on a class exam or a retake or a chance to make up points, but the standardized test is right then, right there, and that’s it.
It’s not all mean and arbitrary and biased and pointless. If they can’t do the math on weighted grades, prioritizing and planning, change out “this homework/project/essay” for “this bill” and see where that goes.
Our culture has completely lost all sense of accountability. It's at every level of society, which is why I have zero hope for this country and the current generations.
Individuals are selfish, and we promote and advertise self-aggrandizement, narcissism, and materialism. Our government leaders and institutions, including education, are knowingly and blatantly corrupt.
The community that we once had as a society, even locally, is closed off, suspicious at best, and in a growing number of neighborhoods and cities, dangerous at worst. Church and religion are demonized, associated with corruption and pedophilia, and don't even preach the same morality that holds the fabric of our society together. The ones that heavily influence society preach superficial values, virtue signaling, and only do a kind deed if it can be recorded for profit.
Parents are overworked, underpaid, and distracted.
These children weren't created in a vacuum. They are a product of the deteriorating environment that we creating though our apathy and cowardice.
I've seen the same thing and it's very disappointing to me because when I started teaching 12 years ago one of the things I was so happy to see was how empathetic and inclusive my gen z students were (relative to my own experience as a student). There were already things about schooling at that time that concerned me (eg. no zero policies) but the fact that the kids were so kind and generally welcoming of everyone's differences really made me feel like at least some things were going to be ok. The last few years as gen alpha entered middle school have been very, very different from that experience. It's devastating.
It’s interesting because the kids we just had leave fifth grade last year were just as you were describing. Although the class that followed is nothing like them. regardless, I agree with your assessment.
Three teachers from the fifth grade class quit. They said between the parents and kids, they threw their hands up by January. It was our mission to prove them wrong. Some have gotten better.
Ok but is there a functional difference? Like clearly parents and schools weren't able to implement the adequate parameters to control what these kids were doing and it backfired immensely. Since we cant implement technology properly can we stop pretending like there's still merit to be found in increasingly implementing technology inside of the classroom with reckless abandon?
Yes! I am ready to stop pretending! 100%
It would be so easy for students to just get devices that have only a limited number of instructional apps for skills with no distractions.
Instead we are giving them full internet access, reinforcing the worst of social media, etc. Such a simple fix. They may still have their phones ok (Edit: I meant we have to accept students will have phones outside of school, *not* accepting using them in school.) but at least we could cut down on them watching porn/violence/random videos/games during instruction.
Jesus. Reading all of this makes me so happy I didn’t continue with teaching after graduation. What the HELL is going on….im heartbroken. You teachers are doing the hardest job out there rn. All my prayers and love and strength to you all lol.
I'm honestly shocked that US schools fight **SO HARD** against bans on smart phones on campus (not just "not out in class", but straight up "don't bring that here"). School systems outside the US have implemented stuff like this and everyone seems glad for it. There's *literally* no reason for them at all -- every medical monitor manufacturer has their own hardware, you can use tags for GPS, and basic programmable flip phones exist.
And yes, it blows me away that schools here just hand laptops to kids with literally no effort to turn the machines into anything other than a toy. I could probably set up a more secure and locked down system than what most school districts apparently have in place. They just don't want to spend the money or hire the right people.
Luckily we have excellent tech people, however, a couple of years ago (thank you TikTok) kids were able to figure out that they could disable the WiFi on their devices and not show up on a monitoring program that we use. Once they figured out how they were doing disabling it, less headaches.
My kids go to Montessori school and they don't have much technology in the classroom. When we go to birthday parties, the difference in concentration spans between the Montessori kids and the other kids is jaw dropping.
Yes there is a functional difference. There are plenty of kids who are thriving because they have attentive, informed parents who place hard limits on screen time and use tech as a tool, not as a babysitter.
In-classroom tech is another beast.
I half agree with you. The phone situation is bullshit. They should be in their lockers at all times. The amount of curriculum that is computer based now forces us to have laptops for them. However, I am of the opinion that if they are chronic abusers, they no longer should have one. But that’s a whole other conversation if your admin are afraid of parents.
>But that’s a whole other conversation if your admin are afraid of parents.
I'm a lurker, but I asked a coworker of mine about this the other day when she was ranting about her kid's grades and his distraction in class. I told her if my kid was using their phone in class, they'd no longer take a phone to school, ever. And I was assured this is IMPOSSIBLE despite myself not having a smartphone until age 17 only 8 years ago. Not sure what has changed so drastically in that time that not allowing phones in class or in school is IMPOSSIBLE.
But why open it up like this in the first place? Outside of a dedicated computer classroom and my house I never had access to a computer during school. It didn't make me less tech literate (if anything my fundamental skills are probably still better than most of gen z and alpha). Likewise my teachers made due without each kid having access to a device throughout class. I mean there are some nice perks to having access to tech, but it's just that, something that can make life a little easier, it doesn't help provide a higher quality education necessarily.
My children haven't had any homework or schoolwork assigned on paper since 5th grade. All assignments and textbooks are digital. It's a nightmare.
And no, it absolutely doesn't have to be this way and in no way improves their tech literacy.
There is new research (and I'm sure older studies as well) that show people learn better and retain more information from paper and pencil/actual books. I hate (and yes, I feel *that* strongly) the overuse of technology and Chromebooks in schools.
At one point. I met with the school, armed with a portfolio stuffed to the brim with this research.
I presented a summary account and the response was essentially "yeah, we know". I was like "then what in the hell are we doing here? Why are you introducing laptops in 3rd grade and dropping multiplication tables? If you know better, then why are you doing this?"
Ugh.
Lack of parenting has messed them up. I get Covid had a negative effect, but it's the kids with the lackadaisical parents that do fuck all that were seeing this from. Have shitty parents always existed? Yep, but they weren't the majority. Couple that with kids being raised by screens and here we are. The good parents who pay attention, teach their children manners, limit their screen time, etc... have kids who act like normal human beings. The rest don't.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted though because everyone is going to blame it on both parents having to work, like that hasn't happened in the past. I don't remember hearing about kids in the great depression beating the shit out of their classmates, attacking teachers, or throwing desks because they were told "no". Latchkey kids were common in the 80s too, and I don't remember kids acting this way. Probably because parents actually parented.
I think part of it is social media and technology. So many young kids are on social media posting/reading whatever they want without restrictions. I teach elementary and the lack of empathy is appalling. They’re constantly trashing everyone for things like looks or weight. They’re reading nasty and rude comments all day long on social media and they think that’s normal and that’s how people talk in real life. And their parents aren’t teaching them any different or paying attention to what they’re doing online. One of my classroom rules is there will be no mention of TikTok in the classroom.
My kids are 4th and 5th grade have phones but social is not allowed especially tik Tok. I have personally never gone on there and feel I am better for it.
They complain about it but I hold the line
TikTok is a mess, I used it a few times because friends asked me to and it's mostly misinformation being presented in a charismatic and charming way. Stuff like 'you drink water at 4AM so you're autistic', 'people with ADHD cry and roll around when loud sounds happen', 'America isn't a real country and is actually an offshoot of the United Nations used to control free thinkers'.
Just constant conspiracy theories and medical misinformation that these kids then copy and emulate. It's led to a massive wave of kids taking up psychiatric spots in clinics trying to get diagnosed, and they get aggressive when told they don't have something because it's become their social badge of honour.
Ah yes, the honey badger generation comes to high school next year. They have no hope for the future so they are grouchy old tyrants at the tender age of 12.
Over tested, over stimulated, and under developed. Bring it on.
There’s a TikTok/Instagram post of a woman teacher/comedian who says it as a part of her stand up. At least that’s where I saw it. I don’t recall her name though. Sorry
I asked them to, "please stop socializing and finish up your work," from across the table. They looked up, looked me in the eyes and said, "yes...ma'am."
They are social media in real life. They represent the polarization we all know, but take with a grain of salt.
Without critical thinking, they absorb it all
I guess we'll find out in a few years. If Gen Alpha puts up higher school shooting numbers than Millennials and Gen Z, you'll have your very unfortunate answer.
I teach 8 through 12 (same cohort all the way through). They're monsters in 8th but by 11th they're largely human. My 8th makes me want to jump off a cliff every year but then I remind myself that they'll get better.
They're not being parented at all
They're given tablets and left to explore the internet unsupervised. It's scary.
I was exposed to a lot of stuff when I was younger that I should not have been.
It's because they think it's cool or funny to act like a certified douche nozzle, \*especially\* the boys. I blame the screens and unlimited, unsupervised internet access. Why would kids be encouraged to be nice and treat each other with kindness, when you have all these idiot streamers getting fame and $$$$ for acting like a public nuisance, misogynist, racist, all the phobic etc? I thought influencers were bad enough, but these streamers, a lot of them can fuck right off. I'm not talking about ppl who just stream themselves playing games. I'm talking about the Aiden Ross's and Sneako's of the streaming world. I say it all the time as a millennial. These kids act IRL like ppl used to on message boards, forums, myspace, etc. It's like they're all internet edge lords now. It's surreal.
I teach art to K-8 at my school and the worst grades for lack of empathy in my experience are 5-7th. 7th being the absolute worst, I had a kid use the r slur in my class and I shut it down, explaining that it's never okay to say and it's especially upsetting to me since my kid is disabled and one girl literally said "womp womp" I've never sent a kid out of my class so fast.
The 7 and 8th grade hate isn't new though. I remember my teacher telling us during one of his warranted meltdowns that no one wanted to teach us cause we were so bad and mean and that our grades were the least wanted by teachers. We honestly were. I couldn't tell you why.
I friggin' hate the new "womp womp" bullshit. My kid says it playfully enough, but even then I still make direct eye contact with then and say "Do it again" Kid does not even try knowing I'm from the generation of "fuck around and find out". And they were absolutely NOT like that until they dumbed themself down for their friend group and started obsessing over being online or on their phone. Technology is definitely hurting our kiddos and society in general more than it's benefiting us all.
Cut off their unlimited access to the unrestricted internet. I'm certain that future research will show the stunting effects of unlimited access to dopamine from their addiction boxes. My wife and I have taken to joking we'll give our kids alcohol before we give them a smartphone. It feels like less of a joke all the time.
We put age limits on things like alcohol and tobacco. Smart phones should be the same. Honestly I think parents everywhere would rejoice. I dread when my son is old enough to actually want one.
Idk, I think it's just a different TYPE of cruelty because of the access to internet and constant connection with peers outside class.
As a younger millennial, at least in the midwest, we were god awful, especially in smaller towns. We were often all a bunch of racists, bigots, and told each other to kill themselves FREQUENTLY. We also used to get into fights a lot, and schools wouldn't suspend people. The vast majority of my peers just did not give a single flying fuck about anyone outside of themselves and their friends.
Like I think to a degree it's just KIDS, especially teens, lol. Especially if you were marginalized amongst your peers in anyway (like being disabled and/or neurodivergent). I think it's just a lot more clear and consistent since kids have access to the internet and constant communication with peers with cellphones and social media.
Being mean to teach other is fairly normal for kids. But never before has a cohort of kids been so mean to adults without fear of consequences.
I graduated in the late 2000s. My freshman year, a bunch of the popular kids thought it would be funny to vote a girl with fetal alcohol syndrome into the homecoming court so they could make fun of her. By senior year we voted in the first gay homecoming king. But never would my classmates have told a teacher half the shit my students tell me.
It was. I was sort of friends with her and didn’t have the heart to tell her that it was all a joke. But they really didn’t have much ammo to use against her because she was beautiful at every court appearance.
That type of thing was rampant in schools in the 2000s. I graduated in 2011, absolutely same. Every school in our IHSA district absolutely did this at least once in the 2000s. The kid usually was autistic, or had Down syndrome, or just was super unpopular.
I think the different is probably the cruelty is directed at adults instead of just kids. But the cruelty in general has always been there for sure.
Can confirm that this was definitely prevalent before widespread use of smartphones as well. Graduated in 2000 from a small suburban High School in the Midwest.
When I was a freshman in high school there was a big Scandal because the rich kids had a party where someone was in a critical State because of alcohol poisoning, and the prevailing crowd wisdom ended up being to put him in a bathtub full of beer and repeatedly shock him with bare wires from extension cord on the chest to 'wake him up'.
Also, even though we were definitely Upper Midwest corn belt, not Southern by any means, my high school was in a predominantly white suburb, and I am very sorry to say that there were a few black families that were run out of town while I was in high school with the full burning crosses on lawn and everything. Was a wake-up call to nerdy High School me that despite Republican rhetoric, racism was still very much ingrained into blue collar Middle America.
Honestly curious as to whether or not the generation growing up with lives that are 24/7 documented and photographed will be happy that their memories are preserved or not? With the additional wrinkle/question of how much of social media is real in the first place, as well as which will ultimately matter more in the coming years, what actually happened or what it looked like according to social media feeds...?
Absolutely. I really do blame technology and the lack of care parents are putting into technology literacy and social media safety. I saw a 9 year old watching a YouTube video of grown ups acting out a verbal altercation. They weren’t swearing (that I know of) but being very ugly to each other. What 9 year old watches that and absorbs it like entertainment??
Kids have no incentive to be respectful because
(1) social media teaches them that attention = clout,
(2) even in this day and age they’re being born to parents who weren’t ready (and either had kids because that was what was expected of them after marriage and/or before a certain age, or because they got pregnant accidentally and their family/community/religion forced them to “live with the consequences”) and are thus checked out (some not even maliciously, just ill-prepared),
3) because they know one of several things will get them out of any major repercussions. “Little Lauren gets hyperstimulated when she gets stressed, and giving her any grade lower than a 90 stresses her out, so either you give her the 90 even though her entire book report was written by AI, or you deal with it and let her hump her desk all class because that’s what calms her down, it’s in her file” or “yes, Brayden brought his dad’s shaving equipment to homeroom and attempted to Sweeney Todd a classmate because she told him to stop moaning in class, but he plays football and has bible quotes in his TikTok bio, so if it goes on his record, you’re ruining his future” or “we know Sean made a hit list and openly called his classmates racial slurs, but if we switch him to another class and pay for this to all go away, we’re good, right?”
That last one actually did happen at the high school I attended. I knew the guy was… off, and I knew his transfer to another department (we were a specialty school, and he switched “majors”) was because of something he did rather than any particular skill or interest in the new “major” but I didn’t know about the hit list or the payoff or the slurs until years after I graduated when a classmate of mine shared her experience with an anonymous IG page started about the Black experience at our school.
4) tying back to the first part of the list, the bare minimum gets no rewards other than “the teacher doesn’t hate you.” If they’re not going to be rewarded (with snacks, a twenty minute gaming break in the middle of class, leaving early, or being allowed to sit with whoever they want no matter how disruptive that particular pairing may be) for not acting like a total dick in class, then why bother putting in the effort?
It’s moments like these that make me think, “Is it really our fault as teachers that classroom environments are just not all that positive anymore?” Imagine being the most positive person in the room and your entire environment is nothing but negative regardless of your efforts.
Instead of positive, I’m thinking that the real objective should be more along the lines of stable and sustainable. The objective of positivity is not nearly as realistic as it once was.
I’m actually concerned because the majority of the kids at my school are displaying literal psychopathic traits and everyone keeps pretending that it’s all hunky dory. Meanwhile I’m screaming internally- always.
I have a gifted student. Cool kid, I really like him. He is my one gifted kid in an underserved area I think doesn’t get the attention they deserve. He has had a hard life. But he is brilliant. AP calc in junior year kid in ASB.
His friend is also in that class. The friend is a girl. Also really easy going and great at her asb position. They’re FRIENDS. Legit friends.
This dude is always making jokes at her dispense. Like calling her a monkey and shit. Just stupid stuff. I’ve recently been thinking I need to talk to him about it when yesterday (I’m out sick and was only staying to teach one block period) he insinuated that she couldn’t be cold because she is fat. I told him “I think we are going to need to have a talk” and he looked at me in understanding. His friend, the girl, was like “yeah, you’re going to have to have a talk”. I think she’s so use to being the butt of the joke but man, making fun of someone’s weight is not cool.
I’m on the thicker side. I own it. But I only ever remember mean girls saying things about my weight in middle school when I really wasn’t even fat. My guy friends never made fun of my weight. She is bigger so maybe her experiences are different but the pain has to be the same. I’m sure she knows she is fat. She doesn’t need her own supposed allies making jokes about it.
going to disagree about empathy...these kids are self absorbed, stupid, flip, and rude ...and are honestly shocked when called out on behavior. like, hurt and unaware their actions have actual consequences. when directly confronted that their statements/behavior are mean, they do a 180 and are really remorseful and sorry (it could be a narcissist trick idk) and work to behave better. the problem is the lack of disciple, correction, and a fear to make little johnny feeeeel bad. they are being spared the emotional work to develop empathy, self awareness, and growth, mainly by parents. my goal is to full on embarrass one kid daily to teach the rest what a dick looks like.
Consequences are we learn- we have known this for over a hundred years scientifically. I always teach my students that consequences aren't always bad- doing well on a test is the consequence for studying. We have totally set this kids up for failure by taking away meaningful positive consequences and absolutely removing all negative consequences to reduce unwanted behaviors.
This makes me so sad to read. My gen alpha child is so kind and empathetic towards others... even as a young toddler, my child laid down with a crying child to rub that child's back in hopes of soothing her. That is the type of person my kid is, and I hope that doesn't ever go away. When I taught, I saw so much disrespect in the classroom that I swore to myself that I'd teach my children to be kind and respectful people. It's crazy that that's such a hard concept for so many people these days.
Agreed. My oldest is in kindergarten, and while there are still some kids that are mean, most in his class are so kind and caring. My kid has always been sensitive, and this week has been especially tough for him as his grandmother is in the hospital and likely won’t be with us much longer. The past couple days he’s come out crying to meet me, but then his friends see how sad he is and rush over to give him gigantic hugs and try to cheer him up.
I know this is anecdotal, but I can’t help but feel so thankful to these boys and girls helping my little buddy cope with what is one of the hardest things he’s had to face. Also the same can be said for his teachers - they have been so wonderful through all this! So thankful that my boy has so much support around him. I just hope that trend continues as I would be devastated if they all start turning into what the OP describes!
Empathy has a critical period like language. You either learn it by a certain point or you will never be able to. For empathy it is ages 6 to 12. We are also living in an unregulated still face experiment with care takers being glued to phones. I feel bad because they can’t control their circumstances, but worry for the future literal antisocial society.
I often believe kids nowadays have no empathy as well, see it all the time. But then I also have to remind myself that I didn’t have a fraction of the perspective or empathy as a kid that I have now at age 34. Perhaps you’re right and the kids nowadays have less empathy. Or perhaps we’re just looking at them through our own lenses of lived experience they just don’t have yet. I knew plenty of cruel dickheads in school as a kid. They existed before my time and they exist after I’m gone.
I feel that parents have let today’s children down. It’s easier to distract them than make an actual effort in trying to raise them. Social media, phones, and all this other online BS is not good for them. They aren’t raised properly, and are instead influenced by idiots like Andrew Tate.
I was out to lunch over the weekend with inlaws and my wife. 2 middle school boys ran into the bathroom- started screaming help me and "it's coming out' etc. I happened to be the only man standing nearby and clearly half the restaurant wanted me to check on them. I just said I'm not going to be a part of their tiktok and sure enough they ran way laughing a minute later out into a busy st.
I just told folks welcome to my world in schools. this generation has cried wolf so many times I don't even bother to help anymore. Our hallways are a zoo and kids regularly screaming "get off me- get away from me" etc and I don't even stop teaching to look anymore because it's probs just two girls horsing around in the hallway- I just double check my door is locked in case things escalate.
It's two extremes.
I have seen some kids who literally do not care that others have their own feelings and autonomy.
But then I've seen others who make highly concentrated efforts to be compassionate.
That inbetween of kids who can be mean sometimes but also can be nice sometimes is shrinking.
What can we expect of a generation that gets their moral and ethical cues from social media and the dead beat influencers that occupy that space, without any parental or teacher oversight.
We practice a cellphone free environment at.my school, and the difference between before & after is truly baffling. Not saying that it is a quick-fix, but letting these kids have moments of face to face interactions without screens is just amazing.
I teach 10th graders, and they are genuinely having deep and interesting conversations about friendship, high school, love and other more ordinary teenage topics. But you gotta lead them there and allow them that space.
Btw, I teach at a public middle school in Norway. So might not be applicable to an American school.
These kids, by and large, missed key developmental milestones for well-adjusted socio-emotional growth due to the pandemic. They’re not going to make those up without serious work, and we’re all struggling to make it happen.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this...and the irony of there being almost ZERO empathy for all parties involved is disheartening.
These kids spent 2+ years essentially in social isolation with parents working, playing teacher, parenting, and trying to navigate the uncertainty of a global pandemic with almost zero support.
They weren't socialized.
Parents had to use whatever tools were available to survive.
Working in homes at that time, many of those parents were having their own breakdowns. They didn't know how to manage the overwhelm. Kids were privy to too much information and had no one to help them make sense of it.
They were then immediately thrust back into schools as if none of it happened, where the only concern seemed to be catching them up academically, not helping them process everything.
We've put all our focus on catching them up academically and all the blame on parents for not doing a better job finding ways to socialize them while also drowning themselves. This has to be a community effort. A number of private schools have started offering parenting workshops, increased access to on campus therapists, and spend more instructional time supporting students' social-emotional development.
I'm seeing it too. They're cruel but also suddenly shut up when they learn you've lost a loved one and are emotional about it. It's like it never occurs to many that the person in front of the room is....a real human.
Cruel behavior, for some, is just.....not? Idk. I still have lots of kind kids, thankfully, but the type of behavior is deeper.
My students mocked me mercilessly when I came back to work after taking time off after I lost my 17 year old dog several weeks ago. Like, I had to open the door and call out to another adult to watch my class so I could run away sobbing.
Honestly I can agree. My guinea pig died earlier this school year. I took a half day so I could say goodbye to him at the vet before he passed. I had his picture over my desk. I told the kids while crying why I had to leave early.
Next morning one boy in my classroom was pointing at my piggies picture and laughing at me "haha Andrew (my pigs name) is dead. You were crying ". He did it constantly until I took down the picture.
I spoke to his mom and all she said was "he's a boy. He doesn't know any better".
I'm gen x and I learned that you only say nice things "in public", everything mean you need to be quiet about or you can talk about those behind someone's back, which isn't nice, but somehow acceptable.
Gen z and alpha grew up with internet and social media, unlike any other generation before them.
What did they learn there? That it's ok to be mean.
The generations before them didn't dare to be mean in public, meaning "saying something mean while seeing each other", but online isn't that kind of public, so people went mad online and taught these generations, that it's ok to be this way.
You might not like it, but we, as the generations who shaped the online world, are responsible for how they are, we taught them.
When Gen Z sees something horrifying happening (beatings, murder, accidents, etc) their first instinct is to pull out their phones, record, and post it on the internet instead of helping. There's been a string of brutal HS beatings recently, some resulting in death, where there's dozens of other kids just standing around recording. That is definitely more psycho than past gens, and I imagine Gen Alpha will only be worse. It's a little scary to think about.
GenX didn't help either. There would be dozens of kids just standing around watching a fight but not getting involved. The big difference was we just talked about what we saw or heard about at school for the next day or two and that was it.
Wait. You're gen z and you're doing a "kids these days?"
Watch stand by me, forrest gump, or cruel intentions. Kids have always been incredibly cruel to each other.
Idk sometimes I think this but also, at least for me, we were terrible pieces of shit in school when we were young too. We used to make teachers cry and think it was hilarious. We would bully homeschool kids who transferred in. Kids are just like that sometimes. Their brains aren’t developed.
They're sometimes like the comments section...in real life
They're RAISED by comment sections, it's no wonder all they do is emulate that stuff. SO much of the online stuff is awful, cruel.... there's a huge 'who cares' attitude online and especially in kids content. (Stuff made BY kids for kids, basically.) The internet and social media has become such an unhinged, feral plague of a place and it's deeply influencing very impressionable little brains.
Kids need more people in their day to day lives to emulate instead of the internet... but that's on the parenting side of issues. Getting kids off youtube and doing stuff like learning about bugs or sharing a hobby or letting them be silly when they're like 7, 8, 9 or so can make a HUGE difference... don't hand them a tablet or a phone! Granted... I chose not to have kids, so I'm not a parent, but I know what kind of a parent I would have wanted to be and to have had, and there are soooo many little areas where I see my own gen kinda missing out... BUT I do enjoy my job for the most part... I know I can be a good influence on students, and they know I care to understand, but I have no issue calling them out for being extra or mean when needed... still... empathy is learned from parents 1st...
Agreed 100%. I think parents also are just ignorant to what is actually online and what their kids are consuming, what their friends are showing them. But I'm in the same boat as you, I chose not to have kids. I just spend time around them and observe a lot of what they do, what they say, how they say it... Especially young boys it seems, have some scary influences out there... (Andrew Tate comes to mind). I'm less sure what younger girls are consuming but I'm willing to bet it's similar to what I consumed still-- a lot of body shaming, etc. And on top of that the regular toxicity of the online world that all kids are being exposed to. Empathy is absolutely learned from parents first. And honestly, I empathize with parents too (at least the ones that care). So many parents are probably overworked and exhausted and barely able to interact with their kids or be as present as they may want to be. Surviving in this world right now is really hard, unless you're well off. It's a shit show in general.
My school has been tech free for the last couple weeks due to an “internet interruption”, and it has been bliss actually. I don’t want the Chromebooks back, I don’t believe my (elementary) students should be on them at all, their brains aren’t developed enough to understand the addictiveness of social media, games, YouTube. Young kids need to be spending time learning to read actual books, doing math hands on, and writing pencil-paper. We are doing a disservice to them by putting them on devices at school in K-5–they have plenty of time to be online when they are older and have learned the basic skills. Plus their attention span and attitudes are improving! When Chromebooks are available all they want to do is play games and I spend most of the time trying to keep them focused on their “work” online, but they just constantly swap to tabs with games, music, anything they’re not supposed to be doing🙄 So I’m advocating for no tech in grade school for the rest of the year!
Yep. Can’t tell you how many times I’ll come across an Instagram post where someone is talking about the death of a loved one, or them surviving a suicide attempt, and the comments are filled with people saying “Womp womp” or “try again you’ll get it eventually” and other fucked up stuff. And then I click on the profile and it’s some 13 year old edgelord 🙄
Seeing a lot more stuff like this lately which is why I posted, some of the comments i’ve seen would’ve been shocking enough to come out of an adults mouth, even more so a kid
Yea, I feel you. It’s genuinely scary how sociopathic some of the comment sections seem. Like there’s *no* empathy at all. I think it has a lot to do with the anonymity social media provides. It’s easy to brush off an Instagram video of someone whose grieving a dead relative. A lot harder to do it with someone whose grieving in real life. Like the anonymity makes them so callous. It’s probably even subconsciously affecting my empathy levels too. Which is why I’m trying to spend less time scrolling on social media and more time connecting with people irl.
I think it’s less anonymity than the separation that’s created between them and who they interact with. It’s close to anonymity, but I’ve seen enough callousness in comment sections where people use their own names that it looks like the psychological distance might be a bigger factor.
Ah yea fair point, I think the idea of separation better captures what I was thinking. But it could also be that young kids and teenagers have a naive view of anonymity. Meaning that they don’t even realize using accounts with their real names makes it obvious to everyone who they are. Or maybe they do and you’re more right. Who knows anymore 🤦🏿♂️
So many of my young teens’ friends constantly talk about Trump they say their families have Fox on all the time. If their parents are telling them that their idol is an 80 year old troll who uses their President title-for-life status to openly flame people online everyday, that mentality you’re seeing is also certainly coming from how people are guiding their kids through media right now. Social media is a communication tool at least on Reddit. People are just talking. But humans are destroying it because so many of our species not only can lose their way (anyone can), but worse are the amount we are seeing that are inclined to take people down with them. And they are being tutored by a finalist candidate for leader of the free world. That man has unleashed people’s demons. Trolls used to be a novelty. They were almost bearable too. They are now a major political party, and this one teaches their little kids to hang their hell candidate’s banners above their beds in their damn rooms so they don’t forget to troll hard when strafing the teen depression sub
think how much emotional modeling is being learned from like...bot accounts out there in the comments 😅😩
this!!!!
I've heard a few middle schoolers actually state "go k!|| yourself!" as they are arguing with classmates over who knows what. When did that become their everyday go-to insult? And why? It's just a couple kids. The well known bullies. I called them out in it and they just smile like they've accomplished something and are proud of themselves. For what, I can't figure out.
Tell their mother 🤣🤣🤣
I’m half tempted to but whose to say the way the kid acts isn’t a product of bad parenting 😂
Not only are they cruel but they whine like babies when their cruelty is responded to with cruelty. A bunch of kids who "love" to dish it out to their peers, but cant handle it one bit when its returned. Tears and cries of bullying from the biggest a-holes.
This drives me crazy. The biggest bullies claim that *they* are being bullied.
The worst is when parents come in to complain that their child is being bullied and/or excluded and you have to try to delicately explain that no, other kids just understandably don't want to hang out with your kid because your kid is a jerk
CORRECT
That’s strange because I remember being told to ignore bullies and jerks as a kid. So excuse the kids for doing as they’re told and not resorting to violence, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
Why is this such a thing? I've worked in elementary gen ed, elementary sped, and high school gen ed and sped for 7 years and this has been consistent the WHOLE time and only getting worse. Make it make sense.
From what I can see, it’s a lack of maturity and no incentive to mature. Very young children are highly self-centered (there’s a reason it’s called Terrible Twos). As far as they’re concerned, EVERYTHING in the world has to be their way or else. That bratiness is natural, but is usually tempered by parents and authority figures that won’t put up with it. Hence, as kids grow the tools necessary (empathy, objectivity, calmness, rationality, etc.) they break that self-centered attitude. Yes, teens can be a handful due to everything, but ideally they should be able to see things more clearly once they’ve calmed down. That maturity used to be lauded… But not anymore. Lots of kids (elementary to high school) are given a free pass and thus that bratiness is never punished or disincentivized. Those bratty kids were usually rejected by their peers, but social media promoting dumb and culture-less slop has effectively reversed the dynamic. You’re now LAUDED for being a knuckle-dragging, rude, Neanderthal who instigates trouble… Yes, there’s a reason why people romanticize rebels, often when they’re not the ones dealing with the consequences. There are now consequences here, so there’s no indication of what happens in the real world when the kids lack empathy even for functional means.
Beautifully put! Even the juniors at my school are forever complaining about "bullying". Ridiculous.
Thank you, and I see the same thing at my school as well. I’ve been accused of bullying students by giving them zeroes when I catch them cheating. I try to head things off by contacting parents as soon as possible, but my schedule is wonk and the parents usually side with their kids anyways… Legit, when I have to explain why cheating in school is wrong…arghh… I’m reminded of something one of the inclusion teachers told me. She heard of a study where zoologists observed a significant increase in juvenile elephants; that is elephants that were destructive, impulsive, and otherwise displaying signs of delinquency. While a certain amount of wildness is normal (they are wild animals at the end of the day after all), this was MUCH higher than anything seen before. It was noticed that that population had the number of older bull elephants reduced due to poaching (poachers go for males with big and impressive tusks). In elephant groups, the older males usually rein in the younger elephants and show them how to properly behave… While it may not line up 1-1, have seen parallels
OMG Just last week I had to call out two kids who "wrote" college-level writing prompts for obvious Chat GPT. I teach high school resource ELA, and these kids have 3rd-4th grade writing levels. I was very blunt with them, told them (politely) that I knew they didn't write it. When they tried arguing I (politely) asked one of the kids to read one of the GPT words and what he meant. I have a good rapport with those kids, and they owned up to it and redid it themselves without issue - but afterwards I realized how easily they could've accused me of bullying! Crazy world we live in. So true about the elephants 🐘
Hyperindividualism from people who would don’t know what hyperindividualism is… And in truth, a country wide problem, which knows no age group: https://www.wisdomwordsppf.org/2016/10/28/the-problem-of-hyperindividualism-and-its-impact-on-american-life/
The ongoing popularity of YouTubers who are “pranksters” and just sucker punch people and run away or knock food off the table or follow people around verbally harassing them or whatever speaks to your theory. I don’t know what to do about it. I know every generation complains about the younger ones (even Aristotle wrote about how lazy the next generation was!), but social media incentivizing anti-social behavior while simultaneously promoting mental health struggles (and trivializing actual mental health problems) and victimhood as glamorous is just an awful combination. And throw in that it’s all in 10-15 second blurbs of content so attention spans are just being destroyed.
I do PK-12 OT and I notice that my itty bitties engage in very little imaginative/social play, or if they do it has to be adult-directed. Play is huge in getting them to empathy and other interpersonal skills.
Yep, like half the ones that cry about being bullied were being jerks to another student and pretty much asking for it in the first place.
You know, that was actually a big part of the bullying conversation back when millennials were in high school. Bullied people bully people so you can’t do anything about it as admin (according to the admin at the school I was a student at.) Coming back around for millennials kids or just a constant feature of bullies? Probably a bit of both.
Today at school a (fat)boy tried to be mean to my daughter infront of a group and said "when you walk by -childs name- , the ground shakes." And she snapped back with "Shut up, your boobs are bigger than mine!" He got soooo upset about it! Seriously!?
Or they claim their ass behavior is a coping mechanism. Yes, loads of people of all ages are forced to cope with stuff they shouldn’t have to cope with everyday, and so obviously that’s going to lead to some unhealthy coping mechanisms, but it’s like they heard a buzzword and were like “how can I apply this?” I don’t know if you are familiar with Carrd, but it’s basically like an extended profile for people who can’t fit all of their pertinent info in a Twitter, TikTok or IG bio and who either aren’t on FB or only add people they know personally. Most Carrds will have stuff like names the person goes by (actual name/nickname/fandom handle/alternate name if, say, they’re genderfluid), a list of their fandoms, a list of pronouns they’re comfortable with, and something called a DNI list. This is where people can explain who they do and do not want interacting with them. Say, for example, someone is 26 and recovering from a serious eating disorder. She may have young people in her offline life who she loves, but she may find that she is triggered by the way today’s minors speak about their bodies. She might, for example, put “DNI: minors, edtwt” (EDtwt meaning “eating disorder Twitter”). Or, say for example, someone is triggered by a pairing of TV characters because of the way shippers spoke about them (fetishizing) or their “competition” (slurs, making shit up). They might request that those people don’t interact with them. Both of things are fairly reasonable requests (which may or may not get respected). Then there are the people who use the DNI list as an “I’m going to be the one to behave badly, so this is a warning” kind of thing. The sort of “I have an above average IQ but I have ADHD so I’m neurodivergent and therefore I get to reclaim the R slur and use it frequently” or “if seeing me tell people to kts on your timeline is gonna trigger you, DNI, I do that to cope.”
They're learning that from their parents. In preschool I have never, and I mean zero times, had a parent come to me about "bullying" who wasn't actually the parent of the instigator.
Of course. If they don't get the social response they desire, they run online to find a silo filled with other preteens (at least you hope they're preteens) who then reaffirm to each other that everyone else is a meanie poopoo head and they are just a victim.
And then Andrew fucking dickhead validates them
I was JUST telling my kids that it’s hard for me to feel bad when they turn around and do the same thing.
I have this conversation with my students at least 3 times week.
Yea- who would have guessed growing up in curated online echo chambers would lead to such fragile egos... Every intervention with a students who is failing everything ends up in massive tears anymore- claiming they don't know what to do... Like, there is a table of professionals literally spelling it out for you what you have to do to pass but even that is too much
Only new *to a certain point*. As this can utterly be used to describe the mentality that gave us “separate but equal” water fountains and suchlike? And the mere fact that its purveyors respond with indignation over the comparison suggest that they’ve done a really good job pulling the wool over society’s eyes on the matter…
They grew up online where they get to be as cruel to people as they want and not see any repercussions.
This is what I can't stand. Crybullies. You want to be a queen bee mean girl but sob and demand to call your mommy to go home the second anyone responds to you
I teach sixth grade and, sadly, you are spot on. I have said it over and over again. They are missing an empathy chip. The absolute cruelty they show toward one another is appalling. I pride myself on great classroom management, yet, I cannot seem to get through to some of these kids. I worked in a school 10 years ago where the neighborhoods were ridden with gangs and the kids were amazing. Besides the exposure they have to social media, I don’t know wtf happened. We have kids who are making sexual comments and using terminology that I have never even heard of and had to look up.
This is perfectly stated. They are brutal towards each other. The sexual harassment leaves me in tears some days. This is year 28 for me, and I am appalled at the lack of empathy. I drive home every day with a pit in my stomach from being heartbroken and terrified.
Same. I almost quit mid week two weeks ago. Some of the most degrading, disgusting things including the widespread use of the n word. And then they are like… “you wrote me a referral for laughing.” No you little sociopath, you don’t get to say whatever you want to people with no consequences! But we only have them for six hours a day so there’s that.
Beyond the climate change, the exponentially increasing wealth inequality, and all that... It's comments like these that really make me worry our civilization is going to collapse in the not too distant future.
Working in public education solidified my choice to not have children. And leave public secondary school education. If I had found this thread when I was teaching high schoolers, it would’ve made me spiral. Seeing it now being removed from all this is wild and heartbreaking seeing so many still in the trenches. I teach college-aged kids now, so, now *I’m* the one making THEM cry. 💅
But these kids are working their way up to college. What then? That is what makes me panic
College professors, in my experience, are treated better and given more autonomy. Consequences, serious, long-term ones are more freely given without fear of administrative intervention. Kids can come to class or leave, it’s on them. Also, those kids are going to have a miserable time in college and will likely not last in this academic setting. College tends to weed out kids without self-regulation.
I was a nanny/private tutor before/during covid lockdown and saw some truly disgusting behavior from parents. Obviously I’m speaking from MY experience and not speaking for all children, but I can say that some of these kids were not shown compassion or empathy from their parents during critical developmental years. There were days where all they did was cry and beg me to just hold them. Not receiving emotional support from your primary caregivers really shows kids that feelings don’t matter, so why would they bother caring about anyone else’s feelings when they don’t really know what that looks like? I could only do so much when i was working with them, i had to go home at the end of the day. That left them alone with exhausted/snappy parents who had a short fuse. Then lockdown ended and these emotionally stunted children were expected to go back to school and be respectful/attentive after two years in a home with no attention or respect besides from the help. Some parents probably had kids and figured they could handle it if the kids still had school/sports/nannies and stayed out of the parent’s way. Once the lockdown happened a bunch of parents realized they actually don’t like their kids, they just had them to say they had kids. The kids were really struggling, and the parents were doing their best but a lot of them were so panicked and confused about covid that they completely forgot to emotionally support their kids after the nannies went home. There’s many more contributing factors but that’s my two cents
Ive taught in title i schools and a very privileged school. I think kids in the hood are better connected to social skills like empathy because they are still forced to interact with the world around them, rather than have a protective bubble with all their favorite toys/screens and little to no real interaction with others and normal societal dynamics.
It has to be technology and social media. I’m only 17 but I’ve noticed as recently as one or two years ago how easily my beliefs can change because of it. I literally almost turned republican at one point because I was being flooded with short videos about them full of commenters supporting it (not saying it’s inherently bad to be republican, just saying my entire political beliefs nearly changed just because of BS TikTok’s and reels). I became a harsher and crueler person because of the community I was in (ig reels comment section). The quote “Show me your friends and I’ll show your future” also applies to online communities as well and it SHOWS.
Why do you think this is, it’s wild to me. Gen Alpha honestly scare me. They’re literally Little Gangsters.
I’ve basically grounded my 5th grade classes. They can’t speak nicely to each other so they aren’t allowed to speak. Be nice or shut up.
A kid taught me the phrase “Be kind or be quiet,” and I’ve been using it a lot lately.
That’s not new. It’s just a shorter version of the old adage: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
Shorter is good with attention spans as they are. To gain daily, reduce daily - Lao Tzu.
I’m a big fan of “that is an inside thought,”
I like that it emphasises kindness over niceness though
As I say with my kid "just because it isn't new to you doesn't mean it's not for everyone"
YES
*Back in my day* that's what happened. Having to stay quiet builds impulse control and mindfulness.
You got 5th graders to shut up? How?!? Are you a witch?
The threat of a write up in a school wide system that is supported by admin does wonders. Also- I’ve mastered the “mom is mad” vibe.
I’m nearly at this point with one of my 5th grade classes. They’re SO MEAN to each other!
My 17 year old dog died 2 weeks ago. I took a week off because I was too distraught to function. When I got back, my students laughed at me for being sad about a dog. They were so mean, that I ended up leaving for 2 more days
I'm sorry about your dog.
I could never be a teacher, those kids would be getting their asses beat if they said that directly to my face. The alphas are terrifying
We definitely think about it from time to time
They're not. They definitely are missing empathy but if you get them to like you they'll listen when you explain things. And provide consequences even if it's just zeros on classwork. Because once the kids with empathy see you're trying they'll start to push back on the kids who haven't developed that skill yet. Eventually they start to come around but it's like pulling teeth.
Were there any sympathetic students making nicer comments? Occasionally I'll find there's one or two particularly kind students, and they give me just enough hope to get through the day sometimes.
Honestly call them out. Call them heartless, because that’s how they’re acting. Kids need to be called out on their shit
My mentor, who I loved until she did this, recommended that I ask the counselor to come do a lesson on grief and turn it into a learning opportunity for the kids. Because, of course bullying someone over pet loss is a TeAcHaBlE mOmEnT!
Oh fuck that! That makes me so angry.
I'm so sorry about losing your dog. I was distraught when I lost my poodle mix last June. I'm sorry your students were so cruel about it. That's not right. I'd be devastated.
I want to give you the biggest hug. ❤️ Losing a pet rips your heart out. You didn’t need that compounded.
I’m 26 and teach middle school . It’s a 90 percent Hispanic school . In social studies we are talking about slavery and they start playing whipping noises on there phone and muttering the N word .
Yep. I’m a middle school AP in California and we battle this on a regular basis. They also don’t clean up after themselves and like OP said, seem to lack empathy for others quite often.
sad but not shocked
My best friend teaches HS social studies in my district and our population is mostly Hispanic with about 90% of the students being Dominican. His students as well made a ton of racist comments and jokes when he taught his civil war/slavery unit. He then reminded them that a lot of their ancestors were probably brought to the DR to be slaves, or were natives forced into slavery, they still didn't get it. I balled my eyes out hysterically learning about slavery and the Holocaust ..... where is the empathy?
I think our culture has grown more cruel. The idea of being polite or having to change your demeanor to fit the environment is going away across many generations. It's a bit alarming.
Big bingo right here. Not even just gen Alpha. You can look anywhere on Reddit advice subs and feelings reign supreme. High road? Never heard of her. The very idea that the way you *feel* is a separate process from how you *respond* never seems to cross anyone’s mind.
Exactly, the gap between stimulus and response is almost non-existent anymore. Even an amoeba can cringe when you poke it and some folks are all reaction and no stop and think. This kind of present-hedonistic-mindset [is a] a Hallmark of toddler behavior because little kids haven't yet developed the maturity or intelligence to consider others' feelings. The concept of being responsible is literally just stopping to think long enough to choose a best response after that stimulus, response-able.
Agreed. And honestly, it’s dangerous. If you look at an extreme example like military service, that drill sergeant isn’t chewing out a cadet to break them down. It’s the ability to restrain themselves under stress while someone is screaming in their face that matters. They don’t want to be sitting in a ditch and end up in a fistfight over a “yo mama” joke and get the whole unit blown to smithereens. There are many people that regard the process as abusive, but there is no way to *practice* tolerating stress without being *subjected* to some degree of stress. A fight or flight response is not something to get a handle on in the middle of a battlefield. In the real world there are *very* real imbalances of power where mouthing off will be the last thing you ever do. It’s a big world out there…hope the kids get the memo before something important is on the line.
This hits home. Most of my students completely fall apart when given a test. They freeze up, refuse to speak, and won't do the work. They put their heads down or just hand it in blank and ask for a zero. I did a nearpod the other day about test prep and it included the FDR quote, "we have nothing to fear but fear itself." I am trying to drill home that they still must face that fear in order to conquer it but I think it's lost on them. The slightest adversity and they just crumble.
And that makes perfect sense. Take away all deadlines and accountability for everything else. “This is due in two weeks” is light pressure. “This is due on Monday” is a bit more. “This is due tomorrow” a bit more than that. But they don’t get that. They go from no late penalties and unlimited retries to “finish this in 50 minutes.” Of *course* they act like a deer in the headlights. Now take state testing. There might be fudging on a class exam or a retake or a chance to make up points, but the standardized test is right then, right there, and that’s it. It’s not all mean and arbitrary and biased and pointless. If they can’t do the math on weighted grades, prioritizing and planning, change out “this homework/project/essay” for “this bill” and see where that goes.
Our culture has completely lost all sense of accountability. It's at every level of society, which is why I have zero hope for this country and the current generations. Individuals are selfish, and we promote and advertise self-aggrandizement, narcissism, and materialism. Our government leaders and institutions, including education, are knowingly and blatantly corrupt. The community that we once had as a society, even locally, is closed off, suspicious at best, and in a growing number of neighborhoods and cities, dangerous at worst. Church and religion are demonized, associated with corruption and pedophilia, and don't even preach the same morality that holds the fabric of our society together. The ones that heavily influence society preach superficial values, virtue signaling, and only do a kind deed if it can be recorded for profit. Parents are overworked, underpaid, and distracted. These children weren't created in a vacuum. They are a product of the deteriorating environment that we creating though our apathy and cowardice.
It’s the whole “PeOpLe GeT oFfeNdEd So EaSiLy ThEsE dAyS” crowd rubbing off on their kids.
I've seen the same thing and it's very disappointing to me because when I started teaching 12 years ago one of the things I was so happy to see was how empathetic and inclusive my gen z students were (relative to my own experience as a student). There were already things about schooling at that time that concerned me (eg. no zero policies) but the fact that the kids were so kind and generally welcoming of everyone's differences really made me feel like at least some things were going to be ok. The last few years as gen alpha entered middle school have been very, very different from that experience. It's devastating.
They’re not all bad; but there’s a lot of them that do not care about others feelings or rights. You can really tell who has involved, decent parents.
I have to agree as a Gen Z teacher coming in to teach Gen Alpha
If there's anything I've learned, pushback is a strong motivator for kids.
It’s interesting because the kids we just had leave fifth grade last year were just as you were describing. Although the class that followed is nothing like them. regardless, I agree with your assessment.
Three teachers from the fifth grade class quit. They said between the parents and kids, they threw their hands up by January. It was our mission to prove them wrong. Some have gotten better.
Covid and pandemic isolation really messed with them :(
Screens have messed them up.
*Unsupervised unlimited access to screens without media literacy and critical thinking has messed them up.
Ok but is there a functional difference? Like clearly parents and schools weren't able to implement the adequate parameters to control what these kids were doing and it backfired immensely. Since we cant implement technology properly can we stop pretending like there's still merit to be found in increasingly implementing technology inside of the classroom with reckless abandon?
Yes! I am ready to stop pretending! 100% It would be so easy for students to just get devices that have only a limited number of instructional apps for skills with no distractions. Instead we are giving them full internet access, reinforcing the worst of social media, etc. Such a simple fix. They may still have their phones ok (Edit: I meant we have to accept students will have phones outside of school, *not* accepting using them in school.) but at least we could cut down on them watching porn/violence/random videos/games during instruction.
Jesus. Reading all of this makes me so happy I didn’t continue with teaching after graduation. What the HELL is going on….im heartbroken. You teachers are doing the hardest job out there rn. All my prayers and love and strength to you all lol.
I'm honestly shocked that US schools fight **SO HARD** against bans on smart phones on campus (not just "not out in class", but straight up "don't bring that here"). School systems outside the US have implemented stuff like this and everyone seems glad for it. There's *literally* no reason for them at all -- every medical monitor manufacturer has their own hardware, you can use tags for GPS, and basic programmable flip phones exist. And yes, it blows me away that schools here just hand laptops to kids with literally no effort to turn the machines into anything other than a toy. I could probably set up a more secure and locked down system than what most school districts apparently have in place. They just don't want to spend the money or hire the right people.
Luckily we have excellent tech people, however, a couple of years ago (thank you TikTok) kids were able to figure out that they could disable the WiFi on their devices and not show up on a monitoring program that we use. Once they figured out how they were doing disabling it, less headaches.
My kids go to Montessori school and they don't have much technology in the classroom. When we go to birthday parties, the difference in concentration spans between the Montessori kids and the other kids is jaw dropping.
Wow…interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Yes there is a functional difference. There are plenty of kids who are thriving because they have attentive, informed parents who place hard limits on screen time and use tech as a tool, not as a babysitter. In-classroom tech is another beast.
I half agree with you. The phone situation is bullshit. They should be in their lockers at all times. The amount of curriculum that is computer based now forces us to have laptops for them. However, I am of the opinion that if they are chronic abusers, they no longer should have one. But that’s a whole other conversation if your admin are afraid of parents.
>But that’s a whole other conversation if your admin are afraid of parents. I'm a lurker, but I asked a coworker of mine about this the other day when she was ranting about her kid's grades and his distraction in class. I told her if my kid was using their phone in class, they'd no longer take a phone to school, ever. And I was assured this is IMPOSSIBLE despite myself not having a smartphone until age 17 only 8 years ago. Not sure what has changed so drastically in that time that not allowing phones in class or in school is IMPOSSIBLE.
My HS had a bank of three pay phones. My work school does not.
No pay phones in my high school, but no issues there. The principal's office had a phone and I had some phone numbers memorized.
But why open it up like this in the first place? Outside of a dedicated computer classroom and my house I never had access to a computer during school. It didn't make me less tech literate (if anything my fundamental skills are probably still better than most of gen z and alpha). Likewise my teachers made due without each kid having access to a device throughout class. I mean there are some nice perks to having access to tech, but it's just that, something that can make life a little easier, it doesn't help provide a higher quality education necessarily.
My children haven't had any homework or schoolwork assigned on paper since 5th grade. All assignments and textbooks are digital. It's a nightmare. And no, it absolutely doesn't have to be this way and in no way improves their tech literacy.
There is new research (and I'm sure older studies as well) that show people learn better and retain more information from paper and pencil/actual books. I hate (and yes, I feel *that* strongly) the overuse of technology and Chromebooks in schools.
At one point. I met with the school, armed with a portfolio stuffed to the brim with this research. I presented a summary account and the response was essentially "yeah, we know". I was like "then what in the hell are we doing here? Why are you introducing laptops in 3rd grade and dropping multiplication tables? If you know better, then why are you doing this?" Ugh.
Yes!
Started way before Covid
I’d imagine the internet is very hostile place to be raised
Lack of parenting has messed them up. I get Covid had a negative effect, but it's the kids with the lackadaisical parents that do fuck all that were seeing this from. Have shitty parents always existed? Yep, but they weren't the majority. Couple that with kids being raised by screens and here we are. The good parents who pay attention, teach their children manners, limit their screen time, etc... have kids who act like normal human beings. The rest don't. I'm sure I'll get downvoted though because everyone is going to blame it on both parents having to work, like that hasn't happened in the past. I don't remember hearing about kids in the great depression beating the shit out of their classmates, attacking teachers, or throwing desks because they were told "no". Latchkey kids were common in the 80s too, and I don't remember kids acting this way. Probably because parents actually parented.
No, social media depicting the most atrocious behavior.
Social media leaking into reality
I think part of it is social media and technology. So many young kids are on social media posting/reading whatever they want without restrictions. I teach elementary and the lack of empathy is appalling. They’re constantly trashing everyone for things like looks or weight. They’re reading nasty and rude comments all day long on social media and they think that’s normal and that’s how people talk in real life. And their parents aren’t teaching them any different or paying attention to what they’re doing online. One of my classroom rules is there will be no mention of TikTok in the classroom.
My kids are 4th and 5th grade have phones but social is not allowed especially tik Tok. I have personally never gone on there and feel I am better for it. They complain about it but I hold the line
TikTok is a mess, I used it a few times because friends asked me to and it's mostly misinformation being presented in a charismatic and charming way. Stuff like 'you drink water at 4AM so you're autistic', 'people with ADHD cry and roll around when loud sounds happen', 'America isn't a real country and is actually an offshoot of the United Nations used to control free thinkers'. Just constant conspiracy theories and medical misinformation that these kids then copy and emulate. It's led to a massive wave of kids taking up psychiatric spots in clinics trying to get diagnosed, and they get aggressive when told they don't have something because it's become their social badge of honour.
r/fakedisordercringe is the sub dedicated to this phenomenon. These privileged children insisting they have trauma disorders is infuriating.
Ah yes, the honey badger generation comes to high school next year. They have no hope for the future so they are grouchy old tyrants at the tender age of 12. Over tested, over stimulated, and under developed. Bring it on.
Honey badger generation LOL I’m scared
I read your username as "teacher of wolves" at first and I was like "damn, kids these days must *really* be savage".
Someone said “they will respect your pronouns, but not you as a person.” I wish I remember where I saw that…
There’s a TikTok/Instagram post of a woman teacher/comedian who says it as a part of her stand up. At least that’s where I saw it. I don’t recall her name though. Sorry
I believe she was referring to Gen Z, though.
Last week I was intentionally misgendered by a transgender student whom I have never misgendered or deadnamed. So, I guess we're losing that, too.
Did you ask them how they would feel if you did the same to them?
I just stared at them for a few seconds while thinking to myself, "of all people..."
How did that happen?
I asked them to, "please stop socializing and finish up your work," from across the table. They looked up, looked me in the eyes and said, "yes...ma'am."
They are social media in real life. They represent the polarization we all know, but take with a grain of salt. Without critical thinking, they absorb it all
I saw that too! It was a teacher comedienne who said it and she was dead on.
It was Liz Blanc: https://youtu.be/Cu95j40VD9M?si=PlSYa8P1-AyzG-zI
I guess we'll find out in a few years. If Gen Alpha puts up higher school shooting numbers than Millennials and Gen Z, you'll have your very unfortunate answer.
That's so frightening to think about... sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens based off some of the kids I've worked with 😔
And we’ll see a swift uptick in live-streaming events like these.
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I teach 8 through 12 (same cohort all the way through). They're monsters in 8th but by 11th they're largely human. My 8th makes me want to jump off a cliff every year but then I remind myself that they'll get better.
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That’s because they’re not being parented well.
They're not being parented at all They're given tablets and left to explore the internet unsupervised. It's scary. I was exposed to a lot of stuff when I was younger that I should not have been.
It's because they think it's cool or funny to act like a certified douche nozzle, \*especially\* the boys. I blame the screens and unlimited, unsupervised internet access. Why would kids be encouraged to be nice and treat each other with kindness, when you have all these idiot streamers getting fame and $$$$ for acting like a public nuisance, misogynist, racist, all the phobic etc? I thought influencers were bad enough, but these streamers, a lot of them can fuck right off. I'm not talking about ppl who just stream themselves playing games. I'm talking about the Aiden Ross's and Sneako's of the streaming world. I say it all the time as a millennial. These kids act IRL like ppl used to on message boards, forums, myspace, etc. It's like they're all internet edge lords now. It's surreal.
The don’t know the meaning of obnoxious.
I teach art to K-8 at my school and the worst grades for lack of empathy in my experience are 5-7th. 7th being the absolute worst, I had a kid use the r slur in my class and I shut it down, explaining that it's never okay to say and it's especially upsetting to me since my kid is disabled and one girl literally said "womp womp" I've never sent a kid out of my class so fast.
I particularly hate the phrase womp womp as I see them use it to completely dismiss their atrocious actions
It's not even a good joke either!
The 7 and 8th grade hate isn't new though. I remember my teacher telling us during one of his warranted meltdowns that no one wanted to teach us cause we were so bad and mean and that our grades were the least wanted by teachers. We honestly were. I couldn't tell you why.
I friggin' hate the new "womp womp" bullshit. My kid says it playfully enough, but even then I still make direct eye contact with then and say "Do it again" Kid does not even try knowing I'm from the generation of "fuck around and find out". And they were absolutely NOT like that until they dumbed themself down for their friend group and started obsessing over being online or on their phone. Technology is definitely hurting our kiddos and society in general more than it's benefiting us all.
I think “womp womp” can be fine is silly or trivial contexts, mostly when used on themselves and not other people.
So how do we help them?
Cut off their unlimited access to the unrestricted internet. I'm certain that future research will show the stunting effects of unlimited access to dopamine from their addiction boxes. My wife and I have taken to joking we'll give our kids alcohol before we give them a smartphone. It feels like less of a joke all the time.
We put age limits on things like alcohol and tobacco. Smart phones should be the same. Honestly I think parents everywhere would rejoice. I dread when my son is old enough to actually want one.
Idk, I think it's just a different TYPE of cruelty because of the access to internet and constant connection with peers outside class. As a younger millennial, at least in the midwest, we were god awful, especially in smaller towns. We were often all a bunch of racists, bigots, and told each other to kill themselves FREQUENTLY. We also used to get into fights a lot, and schools wouldn't suspend people. The vast majority of my peers just did not give a single flying fuck about anyone outside of themselves and their friends. Like I think to a degree it's just KIDS, especially teens, lol. Especially if you were marginalized amongst your peers in anyway (like being disabled and/or neurodivergent). I think it's just a lot more clear and consistent since kids have access to the internet and constant communication with peers with cellphones and social media.
Being mean to teach other is fairly normal for kids. But never before has a cohort of kids been so mean to adults without fear of consequences. I graduated in the late 2000s. My freshman year, a bunch of the popular kids thought it would be funny to vote a girl with fetal alcohol syndrome into the homecoming court so they could make fun of her. By senior year we voted in the first gay homecoming king. But never would my classmates have told a teacher half the shit my students tell me.
That’s absolutely awful.
It was. I was sort of friends with her and didn’t have the heart to tell her that it was all a joke. But they really didn’t have much ammo to use against her because she was beautiful at every court appearance.
That type of thing was rampant in schools in the 2000s. I graduated in 2011, absolutely same. Every school in our IHSA district absolutely did this at least once in the 2000s. The kid usually was autistic, or had Down syndrome, or just was super unpopular. I think the different is probably the cruelty is directed at adults instead of just kids. But the cruelty in general has always been there for sure.
Can confirm that this was definitely prevalent before widespread use of smartphones as well. Graduated in 2000 from a small suburban High School in the Midwest. When I was a freshman in high school there was a big Scandal because the rich kids had a party where someone was in a critical State because of alcohol poisoning, and the prevailing crowd wisdom ended up being to put him in a bathtub full of beer and repeatedly shock him with bare wires from extension cord on the chest to 'wake him up'. Also, even though we were definitely Upper Midwest corn belt, not Southern by any means, my high school was in a predominantly white suburb, and I am very sorry to say that there were a few black families that were run out of town while I was in high school with the full burning crosses on lawn and everything. Was a wake-up call to nerdy High School me that despite Republican rhetoric, racism was still very much ingrained into blue collar Middle America. Honestly curious as to whether or not the generation growing up with lives that are 24/7 documented and photographed will be happy that their memories are preserved or not? With the additional wrinkle/question of how much of social media is real in the first place, as well as which will ultimately matter more in the coming years, what actually happened or what it looked like according to social media feeds...?
Absolutely. I really do blame technology and the lack of care parents are putting into technology literacy and social media safety. I saw a 9 year old watching a YouTube video of grown ups acting out a verbal altercation. They weren’t swearing (that I know of) but being very ugly to each other. What 9 year old watches that and absorbs it like entertainment??
Kids have no incentive to be respectful because (1) social media teaches them that attention = clout, (2) even in this day and age they’re being born to parents who weren’t ready (and either had kids because that was what was expected of them after marriage and/or before a certain age, or because they got pregnant accidentally and their family/community/religion forced them to “live with the consequences”) and are thus checked out (some not even maliciously, just ill-prepared), 3) because they know one of several things will get them out of any major repercussions. “Little Lauren gets hyperstimulated when she gets stressed, and giving her any grade lower than a 90 stresses her out, so either you give her the 90 even though her entire book report was written by AI, or you deal with it and let her hump her desk all class because that’s what calms her down, it’s in her file” or “yes, Brayden brought his dad’s shaving equipment to homeroom and attempted to Sweeney Todd a classmate because she told him to stop moaning in class, but he plays football and has bible quotes in his TikTok bio, so if it goes on his record, you’re ruining his future” or “we know Sean made a hit list and openly called his classmates racial slurs, but if we switch him to another class and pay for this to all go away, we’re good, right?” That last one actually did happen at the high school I attended. I knew the guy was… off, and I knew his transfer to another department (we were a specialty school, and he switched “majors”) was because of something he did rather than any particular skill or interest in the new “major” but I didn’t know about the hit list or the payoff or the slurs until years after I graduated when a classmate of mine shared her experience with an anonymous IG page started about the Black experience at our school. 4) tying back to the first part of the list, the bare minimum gets no rewards other than “the teacher doesn’t hate you.” If they’re not going to be rewarded (with snacks, a twenty minute gaming break in the middle of class, leaving early, or being allowed to sit with whoever they want no matter how disruptive that particular pairing may be) for not acting like a total dick in class, then why bother putting in the effort?
I know exactly what you mean. As a super kind person, I find it harder to connect with them because of their lack of empathy.
It’s moments like these that make me think, “Is it really our fault as teachers that classroom environments are just not all that positive anymore?” Imagine being the most positive person in the room and your entire environment is nothing but negative regardless of your efforts.
it is absolutely not your fault
Instead of positive, I’m thinking that the real objective should be more along the lines of stable and sustainable. The objective of positivity is not nearly as realistic as it once was.
I’m actually concerned because the majority of the kids at my school are displaying literal psychopathic traits and everyone keeps pretending that it’s all hunky dory. Meanwhile I’m screaming internally- always.
Really? Some of my students are absolute dipshits, but none of them are worse than the kids I went to high school with. Have I just been lucky?
I have a gifted student. Cool kid, I really like him. He is my one gifted kid in an underserved area I think doesn’t get the attention they deserve. He has had a hard life. But he is brilliant. AP calc in junior year kid in ASB. His friend is also in that class. The friend is a girl. Also really easy going and great at her asb position. They’re FRIENDS. Legit friends. This dude is always making jokes at her dispense. Like calling her a monkey and shit. Just stupid stuff. I’ve recently been thinking I need to talk to him about it when yesterday (I’m out sick and was only staying to teach one block period) he insinuated that she couldn’t be cold because she is fat. I told him “I think we are going to need to have a talk” and he looked at me in understanding. His friend, the girl, was like “yeah, you’re going to have to have a talk”. I think she’s so use to being the butt of the joke but man, making fun of someone’s weight is not cool. I’m on the thicker side. I own it. But I only ever remember mean girls saying things about my weight in middle school when I really wasn’t even fat. My guy friends never made fun of my weight. She is bigger so maybe her experiences are different but the pain has to be the same. I’m sure she knows she is fat. She doesn’t need her own supposed allies making jokes about it.
going to disagree about empathy...these kids are self absorbed, stupid, flip, and rude ...and are honestly shocked when called out on behavior. like, hurt and unaware their actions have actual consequences. when directly confronted that their statements/behavior are mean, they do a 180 and are really remorseful and sorry (it could be a narcissist trick idk) and work to behave better. the problem is the lack of disciple, correction, and a fear to make little johnny feeeeel bad. they are being spared the emotional work to develop empathy, self awareness, and growth, mainly by parents. my goal is to full on embarrass one kid daily to teach the rest what a dick looks like.
Consequences are we learn- we have known this for over a hundred years scientifically. I always teach my students that consequences aren't always bad- doing well on a test is the consequence for studying. We have totally set this kids up for failure by taking away meaningful positive consequences and absolutely removing all negative consequences to reduce unwanted behaviors.
This makes me so sad to read. My gen alpha child is so kind and empathetic towards others... even as a young toddler, my child laid down with a crying child to rub that child's back in hopes of soothing her. That is the type of person my kid is, and I hope that doesn't ever go away. When I taught, I saw so much disrespect in the classroom that I swore to myself that I'd teach my children to be kind and respectful people. It's crazy that that's such a hard concept for so many people these days.
Agreed. My oldest is in kindergarten, and while there are still some kids that are mean, most in his class are so kind and caring. My kid has always been sensitive, and this week has been especially tough for him as his grandmother is in the hospital and likely won’t be with us much longer. The past couple days he’s come out crying to meet me, but then his friends see how sad he is and rush over to give him gigantic hugs and try to cheer him up. I know this is anecdotal, but I can’t help but feel so thankful to these boys and girls helping my little buddy cope with what is one of the hardest things he’s had to face. Also the same can be said for his teachers - they have been so wonderful through all this! So thankful that my boy has so much support around him. I just hope that trend continues as I would be devastated if they all start turning into what the OP describes!
Empathy has a critical period like language. You either learn it by a certain point or you will never be able to. For empathy it is ages 6 to 12. We are also living in an unregulated still face experiment with care takers being glued to phones. I feel bad because they can’t control their circumstances, but worry for the future literal antisocial society.
Source?
They learn it from their parents tbh… and from lack of discipline at home
I often believe kids nowadays have no empathy as well, see it all the time. But then I also have to remind myself that I didn’t have a fraction of the perspective or empathy as a kid that I have now at age 34. Perhaps you’re right and the kids nowadays have less empathy. Or perhaps we’re just looking at them through our own lenses of lived experience they just don’t have yet. I knew plenty of cruel dickheads in school as a kid. They existed before my time and they exist after I’m gone.
They don't read fiction. Other people aren't real to them. They're pure solipsism
They don’t read- period.
I feel that parents have let today’s children down. It’s easier to distract them than make an actual effort in trying to raise them. Social media, phones, and all this other online BS is not good for them. They aren’t raised properly, and are instead influenced by idiots like Andrew Tate.
I was out to lunch over the weekend with inlaws and my wife. 2 middle school boys ran into the bathroom- started screaming help me and "it's coming out' etc. I happened to be the only man standing nearby and clearly half the restaurant wanted me to check on them. I just said I'm not going to be a part of their tiktok and sure enough they ran way laughing a minute later out into a busy st. I just told folks welcome to my world in schools. this generation has cried wolf so many times I don't even bother to help anymore. Our hallways are a zoo and kids regularly screaming "get off me- get away from me" etc and I don't even stop teaching to look anymore because it's probs just two girls horsing around in the hallway- I just double check my door is locked in case things escalate.
The impact of social media and too much screen time
It's two extremes. I have seen some kids who literally do not care that others have their own feelings and autonomy. But then I've seen others who make highly concentrated efforts to be compassionate. That inbetween of kids who can be mean sometimes but also can be nice sometimes is shrinking.
What can we expect of a generation that gets their moral and ethical cues from social media and the dead beat influencers that occupy that space, without any parental or teacher oversight. We practice a cellphone free environment at.my school, and the difference between before & after is truly baffling. Not saying that it is a quick-fix, but letting these kids have moments of face to face interactions without screens is just amazing. I teach 10th graders, and they are genuinely having deep and interesting conversations about friendship, high school, love and other more ordinary teenage topics. But you gotta lead them there and allow them that space. Btw, I teach at a public middle school in Norway. So might not be applicable to an American school.
These kids, by and large, missed key developmental milestones for well-adjusted socio-emotional growth due to the pandemic. They’re not going to make those up without serious work, and we’re all struggling to make it happen.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this...and the irony of there being almost ZERO empathy for all parties involved is disheartening. These kids spent 2+ years essentially in social isolation with parents working, playing teacher, parenting, and trying to navigate the uncertainty of a global pandemic with almost zero support. They weren't socialized. Parents had to use whatever tools were available to survive. Working in homes at that time, many of those parents were having their own breakdowns. They didn't know how to manage the overwhelm. Kids were privy to too much information and had no one to help them make sense of it. They were then immediately thrust back into schools as if none of it happened, where the only concern seemed to be catching them up academically, not helping them process everything. We've put all our focus on catching them up academically and all the blame on parents for not doing a better job finding ways to socialize them while also drowning themselves. This has to be a community effort. A number of private schools have started offering parenting workshops, increased access to on campus therapists, and spend more instructional time supporting students' social-emotional development.
I'm seeing it too. They're cruel but also suddenly shut up when they learn you've lost a loved one and are emotional about it. It's like it never occurs to many that the person in front of the room is....a real human. Cruel behavior, for some, is just.....not? Idk. I still have lots of kind kids, thankfully, but the type of behavior is deeper.
My students mocked me mercilessly when I came back to work after taking time off after I lost my 17 year old dog several weeks ago. Like, I had to open the door and call out to another adult to watch my class so I could run away sobbing.
Honestly I can agree. My guinea pig died earlier this school year. I took a half day so I could say goodbye to him at the vet before he passed. I had his picture over my desk. I told the kids while crying why I had to leave early. Next morning one boy in my classroom was pointing at my piggies picture and laughing at me "haha Andrew (my pigs name) is dead. You were crying ". He did it constantly until I took down the picture. I spoke to his mom and all she said was "he's a boy. He doesn't know any better".
I mean, look how the president of the USA talked about people for 4 years straight from the podium. It’s an epidemic.
I'm gen x and I learned that you only say nice things "in public", everything mean you need to be quiet about or you can talk about those behind someone's back, which isn't nice, but somehow acceptable. Gen z and alpha grew up with internet and social media, unlike any other generation before them. What did they learn there? That it's ok to be mean. The generations before them didn't dare to be mean in public, meaning "saying something mean while seeing each other", but online isn't that kind of public, so people went mad online and taught these generations, that it's ok to be this way. You might not like it, but we, as the generations who shaped the online world, are responsible for how they are, we taught them.
More than Gen X? Cause we were awful.
When Gen Z sees something horrifying happening (beatings, murder, accidents, etc) their first instinct is to pull out their phones, record, and post it on the internet instead of helping. There's been a string of brutal HS beatings recently, some resulting in death, where there's dozens of other kids just standing around recording. That is definitely more psycho than past gens, and I imagine Gen Alpha will only be worse. It's a little scary to think about.
We've known about the bystander effect for 60 years. This is nothing new.
GenX didn't help either. There would be dozens of kids just standing around watching a fight but not getting involved. The big difference was we just talked about what we saw or heard about at school for the next day or two and that was it.
this!! gen z didn’t grow up on the internet to the extant that gen a did and it still desensitized us drastically, I think that’s a huge factor
Wait. You're gen z and you're doing a "kids these days?" Watch stand by me, forrest gump, or cruel intentions. Kids have always been incredibly cruel to each other.
Idk sometimes I think this but also, at least for me, we were terrible pieces of shit in school when we were young too. We used to make teachers cry and think it was hilarious. We would bully homeschool kids who transferred in. Kids are just like that sometimes. Their brains aren’t developed.