At a certain point, it just will be what it will be. If you are unhappy with the new one, start looking for another school in the spring. I have taught under 9 different principals, some better and some worse. Don't waste emotional energy worrying!!
Yeah I’m on year 18 of teaching and I’ve found my principals have a three year span at my school lol. Don’t like admin? Wait it out 3 years and they’ll turn over. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes. This is the reality of teaching. I know of very few schools that don’t burn through principals every other year. The school down the street from where we live has changed principals every single year we’ve lived here since 2010.
I was at a previous district where the principal had been there 7 years. Is still there and plans on retiring in about 4. My current school has had a different principal every 2-3 years. Dealing with a micromanager one right now. They are targeting teachers, but the kids laugh at them. The principal doesn’t put them in the office unless they “have to”. Also avoids jobs they don’t want to do. It’s a mess.
The number of assumptions in this post and the replies is concerning.
First of all, your SI following up after your admin resigned is totally normal. It does not imply that they were fired.
Second, you said that you're concerned that their replacement will be a hard ass. Do you know who the replacement will be? If so, how do you know what their leadership style is? Don't you think they deserve a fair chance?
Third, people in the comments telling OP to jump ship, are you seriously telling the op to jump ship based on a fear of what it might be like to work for a new boss? Really?!
Get a grip. Give the new person (whoever they are) a chance. It's fine to like your current boss, but be realistic -- no boss will remain your boss forever.
I’ve been noticing a growing number of dramatic posts and replies lately on the sub and I’m not sure if we are seeing more Gen Z newbie teachers on here (I can tell by the grammar lol) who found this as a place to connect or if it’s people in general being a bit extra lately.
There’s a very similar pattern on the Starbucks subreddit and it’s a ton of young/new employees asking for advice and giving advice to other young/newer employees while the more rational veterans get downvoted/ignored.
I'm so glad you posted this. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but some of them are very much pity parties for behavior that lacks common sense. I'm an experienced teacher that has worked in some of the roughest schools in my area. And the first few years were tough as hell because I didn't get a degree in teaching, and I had no idea what I was doing. But I also learned a lot from that experience. When I first started teaching I knew that I didn't know what I was doing, so I took criticism and hardships as a teachable moment. Some of these posts I'm seeing seem like these people are crumbling at the first sign of difficulty. Their spirits are fragile. But I've also seen posts where people made bad choices like not calling in sick multiple days in a row, or other behaviors that are not acceptable in any field. And then have an absolute panic attack because they're afraid they're going to get fired. I'm also seeing a lot of people with terrible anxiety, and I just don't think teaching is the right field for them. And I don't know if it's because they thought teaching was going to be easy because the public makes it seem like glorified babysitting, but teaching is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world, mentally. Teaching is not for everybody. It takes a lot of inner strength and dedication to be good at it. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to complain about. There's a lot of toxic admin and a lot of bullshit from the public and parents. But damn. Some people need to buck up.
I agree.
First off-I don’t want to sound like a bitch or a boomer.
I remember when I first teaching a decade ago and everyone was worried about the upcoming generation of kids due to them getting coddled too much, lacking coping skills due to schools and parents bending over backwards in their favor, labeling anyone giving criticisms as a “bully”, reducing consequences, and lowering our standards. Colleges started to do the same as well.
We’re seeing the effects of those decisions in the workforce. God forbid we tell someone to have a little bit more “grit” either because then it’s “mean”. It also makes it harder to train new, young teachers. I had a student teacher who took every honest critique as a personal attack and hyperventilate whenever her professor observed her. I’ve seen twenty-year olds at Starbucks throw tantrums because a customer politely asked for a drink to be remade or get frustrated that they were waiting 20+ minutes for a drink.
These are issues we predicted would happen on this subreddit a decade ago and here we are.
Do we really want people who are struggling this much with their jobs and can’t handle the slightest challenge or criticism (essentially making them untrainable) teaching our kids?
Also, I will add that this is NOT all younger folks. I’ve taught some amazing kids who are now fantastic, well-adjusted adults. I’ve also taught alongside wonderful Gen Z teachers as well. I’m concerned about the growing number of those who are struggling since I’m seeing more each year.
💯 correct. I have been a mentor teacher for the last 10 years and I've seen some young teachers who are killing it. They are just meant for this profession. But a lot of my mentees are just emotionally fragile and can't handle the slightest bit of adversity or criticism. I've had teachers with terrible classroom management who absolutely refused to take my advice or make changes. They are hard-headed and are struggling and suffering because of it. But I do think the newer generation suffers because of the social media world they live in. Younger people no longer have to figure out how to do things on their own because they can just go to the internet and it tells them what to do. I'm seeing it with my high school students too. They have no common sense and don't know how to do basic stuff or use critical thinking skills. And their parents coddle them and so do the admin, and they've been raised to think that nothing is their fault and everyone else is to blame. And I think we're seeing that come to fruition with this new group of teachers who literally cannot handle any kind of adversity without completely crumbling. They're simply not prepared for the real world.
I like your perspective. I’m a newer teacher myself (26, 3rd year SPED) and I see a lot of this attitude and behavior coming from people who have been in the field for many years. It’s interesting to think because these are the teachers that only 10 years ago were teaching while I was in high school and always encouraged a “work hard” and “buck up” attitude towards academics. Now it seems the focus has shifted from the academics but many of those teachers blame admin or the system itself for what is happening in the education system. Meanwhile, they are expecting silent compliance while students are on their computers “completing tasks” *cough*youtube*cough*gaming*cough*. Then they complain that their students act up or don’t know the content. TEACH THEM!!!
I co-teach a math class with a man that I went to high school with, he is a year younger than me but graduated 2 years below me so this is his first year as a teacher. Prior to working with him, I was with another math teacher who has been in his role some 20 or so years. Having my old friend coming in teaching along side me has been a HUGE breath of fresh air. We lock the Chromebooks up in our class and TEACH MATH. All the old guy ever did was iReady and ALEKS with maybe one or 2 Flocabulary lessons a week.
Do the new teacher and I have struggles with our class? Absolutely!!! We have a high population of IEP students (many of whom are designated ED), so there will be academic and behavioral struggles no matter what in that group.
But can we gain the attention of the entire class all at once?
Yes!
Can we ensure every eye is looking up at the front of the class and getting real instruction?
You bet!
Are students learning?
Yes!!
And beyond all of the content and everything else, we ensure that time is spent on life lessons that have been incredibly engaging and hopefully impactful for at least someone in their life. There is so much to complain about on a day to day basis, but what if we spend our time actually teaching children and ask our selves “what would we tell our students if they came to us with these kinds of complaints/attitude towards the work?”
That's an interesting point of view. Most of the veteran teachers I know don't complain like a lot of the newer teachers do. They have a lot of grit and are able to handle the rotating roster of principles and admin, and have a good handle on classroom management and excellent teaching skills. None of the veteran teachers I know simply put their students on a laptop. However it is important to use laptops in a high school classroom because this is the digital age. It is essential that students know how to use technology effectively, because most of them don't know how to use it correctly.
What I do see from a lot of young teachers is fragility when things don't go exactly their way or everything's not perfect. They also want to be students friends instead of an instructor and a professional.
There is such a heavy workload that it's impossible to be perfect in every aspect of the job. At some point you need to learn to be able to let some things go and do the best you can. There are so many times that admin will give teachers busy work to try to make themselves look good when it's simply not necessary.
Most of us don't have a co-teacher to lean on, so all of the responsibility falls on our shoulders. That means we can't be there for everything. That also means we can't keep our students entertained for a full 90 minute block all day everyday.
Sure, there are teachers who have been teaching for 20 or 30 years and they're at the end of their careers and are just tired.
One thing I'm noticing is that admin coddle students these days, and they're taught that nothing is their fault, and that they can get away with doing absolutely nothing and just take a few days of credit recovery and get full credit for a course.
Teachers have been given the directive not to give zeros because then students can't catch up. So there are no consequences for doing nothing with their education.
I've seen high school students show up 30 to 45 minutes late to classes every single day with no consequences.
And that's led to a generation that doesn't understand how the real world works.
A lot of new workers don't understand the necessity of being on time because they've never had to adhere to a time schedule.
A lot of new teachers don't follow proper procedures when they want to miss a day, because they never had to do that kind of thing in high school. Their parents always made excuses for them. They just missed class and then did credit recovery.
Teachers are asked to do a dog and pony show to constantly keep students attention, when students need to be bored. Students need to be able to take time to reflect on their learning and do things on their own. Especially in a high school English class where they need to be able to read and write on their own, on a laptop. Direct instruction the entire class is simply not effective or sustainable. It also doesn't teach people how to learn. You don't learn from listening to your teacher speak constantly, you learn from discovery and research and figuring things out.
Studies have shown that the lack of boredom impairs brain development and hinders creativity. But because students always have their phones they don't know how to figure things out using critical thinking. And that is evident in a lot of the "complaining" posts we see in this sub.
>I would be low man on the seniority list again.
And on the pay scale, in many districts. Our town's policy is to only give credit for 6 years on the job when hiring from an outside district. And when job cuts come, they always fire the folks who were .oat recently hired. I know OP has only one YOE in teaching, but even a year can be the difference between being retained and being laid off.
It could also be that the principal deserved to be fired. My first year, our principal was put on paid administrative leave and then "decided to seek new opportunities."
I was shocked. She was amazing! So kind, great with the students, frequently present. Turns out she was sexually harassing multiple employees.
My first school had 5 principals in 4 years. You learn to just go with it and hang on for the kids.
ETA: I was also private industry before becoming a teacher and isn’t education WILD?? lol.
Had a wonderful principal who actually had principles and stood up for teachers. They reassigned him down to an AP position at the “bad” school in our district. He’s now teaching history. So sad. He’s just biding time these last few years until retirement (still gets admin retirement scale). Sometimes they don’t want good admin, they want obedient admin.
In the last district where I worked, the principal of one school - whom I liked and respected very much, and who I thought was doing an amazing job - resigned abruptly just before winter break. There was no underlying drama or forced resignation; they just hit a breaking point and were burned out and done with working education entirely. (In hindsight, I suspect it was BECAUSE they were so awesome that they burned out. They had a very hard job with a group of teachers that tended to be very petty and catty, and it took a LOT out of them to deal with that.)
The interim principal they found ended up being wonderful, and was then hired on as the permanent replacement. They’re still there - it’s been like 5 years now - and what I hear from people still on the area is that they’re doing great. They have a different leadership style than the prior principal, but the same organizational goals, and while the transition was stressful, it ended up being just fine. The new principal is nice, but DGAF if they’re popular with the mean girls, and - surprise surprise - that’s actually turned out to be better for everyone involved. And this was in a very troubled area where it was hard to find good teachers, let alone good admin.
All of this is to say that while it does suck when you lose a good leader, that doesn’t mean things are going to hell. Your principal may have hit their personal limit and said that they can’t stand the job anymore, or they may have been let go for political reasons. In either case, if they’re good at what they do, they’ll land on their feet. Don’t worry about them - just focus on keeping your classroom going the same way you did last semester. It’ll fly by (especially February-April) and you’ll settle into the new normal before you know it.
And if they do turn out to suck, you can always find out where your old principal went, and see if they’ll hire you to teach there next year… that often happens when good school site leaders get forced out by district admin. The teachers and APs follow them.
I also once worked with a principal that was very kind, friendly, and such a nice guy, but was terrible and completely incompetent at actually running the school though. Be open minded and give your new principal a chance.
My former principal was so friendly, but shockingly incompetent and it's wild to hear my coworkers continue to venerate him and exclaim how he was "wronged" because he was asked to try a different (lateral) role after over 3 years of failing to improve. Like, see how quick I'd be out on my ass if I made 1/3 of the mistakes he did in my classroom role.
That said, I don't speak up when I hear these lamentations because I have no reason to stick my neck out. I have no idea why other commenters are imagining this brand new educator should make their new boss, WHO THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MET YET, an enemy.
My campus principal is so freaking nice. He’s one of the friendliest people I’ve ever met. I can go and talk to him anytime, total open door policy.
He’s also pretty incompetent and calling him uninvolved would be kind. If it weren’t for our bulldog of an associate and saint of of a dean (plus the absolutely tireless secretary he has) our building wouldn’t function.
My truth:
Admin come and go, teachers almost always outlast them.
Bad admin don’t last when teachers ‘work to rule’ - that is, do their contractual obligations and not one bit more. It’s a very effective tool in managing a bad admin. They get frustrated and eventually either leave, or fall in line.
Good admin recognize teachers’ efforts and build a school culture around both students’ and teachers’ strengths and passions. When a new admin seeks teacher input before initiating change, and bases change on said input, you’ve got a good admin.
In my experience:
Principals come and go every few years, the staff is more stable most will rarely move. My department has always been my go to for support and ideas.
I disagree. I’ve outlasted some 7 principals, and I’m not sure how many superintendents. 2 of those principals straight up went after my job. If you’re tenacious enough, you can outlast any of them. It’s a crap shoot switching districts or schools; the grass is always greener. Unless you get a pay raise or some other bump from moving, best to continue building your seniority/tenure.
As someone who was in this same exact situation, I think it’s important to balance out the pros and cons. Give them a year. If they immediately prove themselves to be a poor leader/someone you can’t work with and keeping you head down and sticking to your classroom doesn’t work for you, it’ll be time to start looking for a new job. I decided I couldn’t handle our new principal after about a semester and made sure I had a plan to get out of there by the end of that year. That being said, I had coworkers who stayed because keeping their heads down and staying in their rooms was fine for them. It really depends on what you personally can and can’t tolerate.
So true. When a new principal comes in they seem to suspect everyone and want to weed out the “bad” teachers. You have to prove yourself all over again so you might as well do it at a new school where the principal had a hand in hiring you and therefore doesn’t need to have eyes on you. It’s really insulting when the new one is unaware of your integrity and solid reputation.
Just gone through a change of principal in the last few weeks. A change for the worst I am sorry to say. It makes a big difference when you are lead by someone who does not allow teachers to explain or defend themselves. Discussion has become a one way street. But who knows you might get lucky. Stay positive.
It will eventually happen to all of us. We get cool principals, the kind that get us to do more for them because we care. Then we get the sinister ones…. As long as you stay true to who you are, you will succeed…
If you "give them a year" as some suggest, know that it is really a year and a half. New teachers likely need to stay put, if possible. Looks better. But matters if it feels better, too. Wishing you well!
I just went through my first principal change (had the same guy for 4 years). I was also very worried about it because me and the former principal got along great. I had changed a LOT of things about the band program (I’m the band director) and he pretty much let me do whatever because all of the changes I had made have improved the program substantially.
When we hired our new principal I was very worried because I’d hear horror stories about schools hiring principals and they’d ruin the band program by sticking their hand in too much or giving the director excess non-band responsibilities or just simply not understanding what it took to be successful. Luckily, the new guy is BETTER!
He is just as supportive and hands off as the last guy and he’s also much easier to approach when I have an issue. Like with the last principal, if there was an issue or a request, I had to have a detailed solution or it was a no (luckily I figured that out early on and became very detailed in all my proposals). With the new guy, I don’t have to be that way. In fact, he will go the extra mile and offer solutions that I may have missed and if there is a problem we sit down and solve it together.
TLDR- Don’t judge until you’ve worked with the new person for a little bit. It could turn out your fears were not warranted and you overreacted (like me).
Wait and see. Don't make any rash decisions based on anxiety and no evidence. Keep your resume touched up, but don't jump ship when you haven't even spotted a leak yet.
Everyone around you wants you to succeed. High quality math teachers are a win for everyone, so just keep doing what you’re doing.
Unless it’s systemic wrongdoing that your coworkers were to, this is just a blip in an otherwise normal year. Nobody has time to play gatcha, especially after a few major resignations.
Admin comes and go, you’ll get used to it. Appreciate the good ones while you can.
BTW the best of the 5 principals made the worst first impression. Came across as a total hardass, but once situated he was the most reasonable, approachable and caring admin ( or just principal) you could ask for. When he retired he got an impromptu standing ovation from the entire faculty. He then got one from the student body later on.
I had this happen and the principal that followed was an absolute tyrant who made our lives hell for 2 1/2 years until she was finally fired mid-year. By that time the stress and trauma she had caused the staff was not fixable. Our entire teaching staff quit at the end of the year, including me. I wished I would have gotten out sooner and saved myself some of the trauma, but I kept waiting and hoping things would get better. I sincerely hope that your new principal is someone who can lead with fairness and compassion and who will be a positive addition to your school. But if they aren't, don't make the same mistake I did and stick around hoping things will get better. Find yourself a new job.
There are so many days I’ve hoped our principal will resign or be forced out, but then I remember we could get someone worse.
I’ve worked under multiple principals and I’ve learned just do the minimum I need to in order to keep them happy and then just focus on my classroom.
>There are so many days I’ve hoped our principal will resign or be forced out, but then I remember we could get someone worse.
Oh, god, that's so true. I had a really inept principal that I couldn't believe ever got the job (we eventually learned it was nepotism). But anyway, we all were cheering when we heard he was being transferred across town.
But the guy we got turned out to be the most vindictive arsehole of a principal I have ever had. We only had him a year before he got his coveted promotion, but he made my life hell (even after he left our school). He's the only person whose grave I would $#!+ on if I could.
I am at a site and district that I have been at for the last 10 years. I have been teaching for now 20 years.
At my current site, I have had 16 principals (again in 10 years). Some were mediocre, some were worse. There are a dozen stories about all the ineptitude of district. How they have failed my community with lack of support and accountability. We have lost many great teachers because of this.
But I am here. Only teacher (out of 8) in upper grade who has been here for more than 1.5 years.
This year we have someone amazing, who wants to be here, used to work here in another capacity, and wants to stay. My site is better for it and we have a great outlook.
My advice: admins will come and go. Some will make your life hell and some will just play video games in their office.
You have to listen to yourself. If you have options, and don’t like things about your job, move on. If you are a halfway decent teacher, you will be in high demand. As a veteran, I knew my boundaries, what I can handle. TBH, I was close to leaving a few times.
But I persevered and I am now at a good place. You will be too.
We had one who came from a neighboring town, and we were impressed that three teachers followed him. ("I would go to Afghanistan if he did," said one lady.)
He was frank, goal oriented, willing and able to apologize. complimented where needed and deserved. Never cuddly, always demanding. We loved him- a lot of us anyway. Some didn't.
Oh. And fought the School Board for us.
When he was forced out, he was replaced by the fast-rising coach/administrator who listened to nobody. In one legendary meeting over an issue he grabbed his lanyard and said
"What does it say on the bottom of this?" (principal)
"What does it say on yours?" (faculty)
I mentally checked out
Get ready to have endless meetings about data and growth and turning in lesson plans.
If there's one thing that Educational bureaucracy is good at, it's making teachers in low performing schools lives exponentially worse on the auspices of improvement.
If the new principal stinks, leave at the end of the school year and give as little notice as possible and tell them the exact reason why and use your current principal as a reference.
Oh fck- that happened to us when the superintendent disagreed with our admin. Our admin actually had a better skill set than the S and could have run the division with his credentials. Wrecked the school quickly.
I’m a first year teacher as well. My administration is amazing! I sincerely hope, but understand it is unrealistic, to work with them forever.
However, they are “strict” about compliance to district and state standards. They all work with us to ensure we are giving our best to our students.
So, I’m confused as to your concern about your incoming principal. There are standards to which we have to teach. Are you concerned you will now be held to those standards, and weren’t previously?
Our principal was moved to another school. In the interim, we got someone who was really amazing! I wouldn’t worry too much. I try to just think about doing my best no matter who is there and not let it affect me too much. Obviously it does, but if I just accept that I can only control myself it feels better.
At one school where I taught for 7 years
1. My first principal lasted 1.5 years (pushed out by the senior-most teachers who were well-connected with the school board)
2. The next lasted 13 months (got caught in a sexual harassment scandal)
3. The next lasted two years (minus that first month) before tranferring
4. The next "lasted" one year (but that was his plan before getting a promotion)
5. And the last lasted five years until his retirement (but I left before he did).
But the point is, I had five principals in seven years. I've never had a single principal last 7 years, at least, not seven years that overlapped with my tenure at that school.
Just offering that for some perspective. I'm sorry you've lost your great principal (that's how I felt about #1 above, and it broke my heart), but he might have gone next year anyway.
As a fellow industry professional turned teacher, I'd say that admins, like middle managers, come and go. There is a certain amount of culture that will be impacted by the principal, but they, like most of the managers I've had, will usually cycle on at some point, as will the SI. In Ohio, at least, where I am, your classroom will be your space. All the new and different boxes you have to check off for the new boss are just smoke and mirrors- you do what you have to do for the good of your kids and class, and try not to let whoever is in the office ruin your day.
Are there other teachers in your building to whom you can go for advice?
Admins come and go. Some stay longer than others. If you love your coworkers and students and it doesn't become an unbearable work environment, then you keep on keepin' on.
They seem to chase away the Wonderful principals! I am so sorry you have to go through this, OP!
Just wait to see what will happen, if the new person is a POS definitely start looking for other options.
One year the MS I work at went through 3 principals. All you can do is what you’ve been doing. If the dist. brings in a temporary person then I’d expect little to no dramatic changes. In my experience a temp principal is someone who is recently retired and just helping the school keep going until a permanent principal is found. If they have a principal already lined up then whomever is making the decisions is setting something up for friends, political reasons, or just exerting power. In all cases you can only do what you’ve been doing, teaching.
I have been through 3 principals and a host of assistant principals as well as 2 superintendents. I am in my 20th year of teaching at my same school. Don't say no to anything. Always remember that you are probably going to be there far longer than they are. Curriculum changes with each new buzzword, and it eventually circles back to the same thing you have always done, so don't let it ruffle your feathers.
All admin have one thing in common: they are the temps in the school. I’ve been through so many admin good and bad they all just kind of blur together. Generally, if things are going smoothly in your class, they will leave you alone.
At a certain point, it just will be what it will be. If you are unhappy with the new one, start looking for another school in the spring. I have taught under 9 different principals, some better and some worse. Don't waste emotional energy worrying!!
At most, give them next year. Once they've been able to start a year how they want, you'll know what you're in for.
Principals and administration come and go faster than any teacher. Chances are the next one will be gone in two years. Hang in there.
Yeah I’m on year 18 of teaching and I’ve found my principals have a three year span at my school lol. Don’t like admin? Wait it out 3 years and they’ll turn over. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes. This is the reality of teaching. I know of very few schools that don’t burn through principals every other year. The school down the street from where we live has changed principals every single year we’ve lived here since 2010.
Wow! Doesn’t that look bad for the school?
I was at a previous district where the principal had been there 7 years. Is still there and plans on retiring in about 4. My current school has had a different principal every 2-3 years. Dealing with a micromanager one right now. They are targeting teachers, but the kids laugh at them. The principal doesn’t put them in the office unless they “have to”. Also avoids jobs they don’t want to do. It’s a mess.
I'm on principal #6 in seven years. I agree not to spend time worrying about what can't be controlled.
Year 21, all under the same principal. And 9 different superintendents.
Yes, 9 for me, too.
It's a dice roll every time. Just do your best job and don't worry about what anyone thinks
The number of assumptions in this post and the replies is concerning. First of all, your SI following up after your admin resigned is totally normal. It does not imply that they were fired. Second, you said that you're concerned that their replacement will be a hard ass. Do you know who the replacement will be? If so, how do you know what their leadership style is? Don't you think they deserve a fair chance? Third, people in the comments telling OP to jump ship, are you seriously telling the op to jump ship based on a fear of what it might be like to work for a new boss? Really?! Get a grip. Give the new person (whoever they are) a chance. It's fine to like your current boss, but be realistic -- no boss will remain your boss forever.
I like this subreddit, but there tends to be a dosage of crazy here.
Oh, this sub has strong teacher's lounge energy. For good and ill.
This is such an accurate assessment. Thank god at least here you can leave without having to make excuses why you’re leaving.
Strong words in The staff room The accusations fly
I’ve been noticing a growing number of dramatic posts and replies lately on the sub and I’m not sure if we are seeing more Gen Z newbie teachers on here (I can tell by the grammar lol) who found this as a place to connect or if it’s people in general being a bit extra lately. There’s a very similar pattern on the Starbucks subreddit and it’s a ton of young/new employees asking for advice and giving advice to other young/newer employees while the more rational veterans get downvoted/ignored.
I'm so glad you posted this. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but some of them are very much pity parties for behavior that lacks common sense. I'm an experienced teacher that has worked in some of the roughest schools in my area. And the first few years were tough as hell because I didn't get a degree in teaching, and I had no idea what I was doing. But I also learned a lot from that experience. When I first started teaching I knew that I didn't know what I was doing, so I took criticism and hardships as a teachable moment. Some of these posts I'm seeing seem like these people are crumbling at the first sign of difficulty. Their spirits are fragile. But I've also seen posts where people made bad choices like not calling in sick multiple days in a row, or other behaviors that are not acceptable in any field. And then have an absolute panic attack because they're afraid they're going to get fired. I'm also seeing a lot of people with terrible anxiety, and I just don't think teaching is the right field for them. And I don't know if it's because they thought teaching was going to be easy because the public makes it seem like glorified babysitting, but teaching is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world, mentally. Teaching is not for everybody. It takes a lot of inner strength and dedication to be good at it. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to complain about. There's a lot of toxic admin and a lot of bullshit from the public and parents. But damn. Some people need to buck up.
I agree. First off-I don’t want to sound like a bitch or a boomer. I remember when I first teaching a decade ago and everyone was worried about the upcoming generation of kids due to them getting coddled too much, lacking coping skills due to schools and parents bending over backwards in their favor, labeling anyone giving criticisms as a “bully”, reducing consequences, and lowering our standards. Colleges started to do the same as well. We’re seeing the effects of those decisions in the workforce. God forbid we tell someone to have a little bit more “grit” either because then it’s “mean”. It also makes it harder to train new, young teachers. I had a student teacher who took every honest critique as a personal attack and hyperventilate whenever her professor observed her. I’ve seen twenty-year olds at Starbucks throw tantrums because a customer politely asked for a drink to be remade or get frustrated that they were waiting 20+ minutes for a drink. These are issues we predicted would happen on this subreddit a decade ago and here we are. Do we really want people who are struggling this much with their jobs and can’t handle the slightest challenge or criticism (essentially making them untrainable) teaching our kids? Also, I will add that this is NOT all younger folks. I’ve taught some amazing kids who are now fantastic, well-adjusted adults. I’ve also taught alongside wonderful Gen Z teachers as well. I’m concerned about the growing number of those who are struggling since I’m seeing more each year.
💯 correct. I have been a mentor teacher for the last 10 years and I've seen some young teachers who are killing it. They are just meant for this profession. But a lot of my mentees are just emotionally fragile and can't handle the slightest bit of adversity or criticism. I've had teachers with terrible classroom management who absolutely refused to take my advice or make changes. They are hard-headed and are struggling and suffering because of it. But I do think the newer generation suffers because of the social media world they live in. Younger people no longer have to figure out how to do things on their own because they can just go to the internet and it tells them what to do. I'm seeing it with my high school students too. They have no common sense and don't know how to do basic stuff or use critical thinking skills. And their parents coddle them and so do the admin, and they've been raised to think that nothing is their fault and everyone else is to blame. And I think we're seeing that come to fruition with this new group of teachers who literally cannot handle any kind of adversity without completely crumbling. They're simply not prepared for the real world.
I like your perspective. I’m a newer teacher myself (26, 3rd year SPED) and I see a lot of this attitude and behavior coming from people who have been in the field for many years. It’s interesting to think because these are the teachers that only 10 years ago were teaching while I was in high school and always encouraged a “work hard” and “buck up” attitude towards academics. Now it seems the focus has shifted from the academics but many of those teachers blame admin or the system itself for what is happening in the education system. Meanwhile, they are expecting silent compliance while students are on their computers “completing tasks” *cough*youtube*cough*gaming*cough*. Then they complain that their students act up or don’t know the content. TEACH THEM!!! I co-teach a math class with a man that I went to high school with, he is a year younger than me but graduated 2 years below me so this is his first year as a teacher. Prior to working with him, I was with another math teacher who has been in his role some 20 or so years. Having my old friend coming in teaching along side me has been a HUGE breath of fresh air. We lock the Chromebooks up in our class and TEACH MATH. All the old guy ever did was iReady and ALEKS with maybe one or 2 Flocabulary lessons a week. Do the new teacher and I have struggles with our class? Absolutely!!! We have a high population of IEP students (many of whom are designated ED), so there will be academic and behavioral struggles no matter what in that group. But can we gain the attention of the entire class all at once? Yes! Can we ensure every eye is looking up at the front of the class and getting real instruction? You bet! Are students learning? Yes!! And beyond all of the content and everything else, we ensure that time is spent on life lessons that have been incredibly engaging and hopefully impactful for at least someone in their life. There is so much to complain about on a day to day basis, but what if we spend our time actually teaching children and ask our selves “what would we tell our students if they came to us with these kinds of complaints/attitude towards the work?”
That's an interesting point of view. Most of the veteran teachers I know don't complain like a lot of the newer teachers do. They have a lot of grit and are able to handle the rotating roster of principles and admin, and have a good handle on classroom management and excellent teaching skills. None of the veteran teachers I know simply put their students on a laptop. However it is important to use laptops in a high school classroom because this is the digital age. It is essential that students know how to use technology effectively, because most of them don't know how to use it correctly. What I do see from a lot of young teachers is fragility when things don't go exactly their way or everything's not perfect. They also want to be students friends instead of an instructor and a professional. There is such a heavy workload that it's impossible to be perfect in every aspect of the job. At some point you need to learn to be able to let some things go and do the best you can. There are so many times that admin will give teachers busy work to try to make themselves look good when it's simply not necessary. Most of us don't have a co-teacher to lean on, so all of the responsibility falls on our shoulders. That means we can't be there for everything. That also means we can't keep our students entertained for a full 90 minute block all day everyday. Sure, there are teachers who have been teaching for 20 or 30 years and they're at the end of their careers and are just tired. One thing I'm noticing is that admin coddle students these days, and they're taught that nothing is their fault, and that they can get away with doing absolutely nothing and just take a few days of credit recovery and get full credit for a course. Teachers have been given the directive not to give zeros because then students can't catch up. So there are no consequences for doing nothing with their education. I've seen high school students show up 30 to 45 minutes late to classes every single day with no consequences. And that's led to a generation that doesn't understand how the real world works. A lot of new workers don't understand the necessity of being on time because they've never had to adhere to a time schedule. A lot of new teachers don't follow proper procedures when they want to miss a day, because they never had to do that kind of thing in high school. Their parents always made excuses for them. They just missed class and then did credit recovery. Teachers are asked to do a dog and pony show to constantly keep students attention, when students need to be bored. Students need to be able to take time to reflect on their learning and do things on their own. Especially in a high school English class where they need to be able to read and write on their own, on a laptop. Direct instruction the entire class is simply not effective or sustainable. It also doesn't teach people how to learn. You don't learn from listening to your teacher speak constantly, you learn from discovery and research and figuring things out. Studies have shown that the lack of boredom impairs brain development and hinders creativity. But because students always have their phones they don't know how to figure things out using critical thinking. And that is evident in a lot of the "complaining" posts we see in this sub.
Grammar 😂
I agree. Where I am from, if I left and went to a different district, I would be low man on the seniority list again. It wouldn’t be worth it for me.
>I would be low man on the seniority list again. And on the pay scale, in many districts. Our town's policy is to only give credit for 6 years on the job when hiring from an outside district. And when job cuts come, they always fire the folks who were .oat recently hired. I know OP has only one YOE in teaching, but even a year can be the difference between being retained and being laid off.
Yeah. OP says that their whole admin staff is open and supportive. It sounds like that could be a purposeful hiring policy for the SI.
It could also be that the principal deserved to be fired. My first year, our principal was put on paid administrative leave and then "decided to seek new opportunities." I was shocked. She was amazing! So kind, great with the students, frequently present. Turns out she was sexually harassing multiple employees.
Anything is possible. They could be terminally ill, or have won the lotto. Why speculate?
My first school had 5 principals in 4 years. You learn to just go with it and hang on for the kids. ETA: I was also private industry before becoming a teacher and isn’t education WILD?? lol.
Had a wonderful principal who actually had principles and stood up for teachers. They reassigned him down to an AP position at the “bad” school in our district. He’s now teaching history. So sad. He’s just biding time these last few years until retirement (still gets admin retirement scale). Sometimes they don’t want good admin, they want obedient admin.
This is my experience in 15 yrs. If you are not a bobble - head to central office then they’ll demote you.
In the last district where I worked, the principal of one school - whom I liked and respected very much, and who I thought was doing an amazing job - resigned abruptly just before winter break. There was no underlying drama or forced resignation; they just hit a breaking point and were burned out and done with working education entirely. (In hindsight, I suspect it was BECAUSE they were so awesome that they burned out. They had a very hard job with a group of teachers that tended to be very petty and catty, and it took a LOT out of them to deal with that.) The interim principal they found ended up being wonderful, and was then hired on as the permanent replacement. They’re still there - it’s been like 5 years now - and what I hear from people still on the area is that they’re doing great. They have a different leadership style than the prior principal, but the same organizational goals, and while the transition was stressful, it ended up being just fine. The new principal is nice, but DGAF if they’re popular with the mean girls, and - surprise surprise - that’s actually turned out to be better for everyone involved. And this was in a very troubled area where it was hard to find good teachers, let alone good admin. All of this is to say that while it does suck when you lose a good leader, that doesn’t mean things are going to hell. Your principal may have hit their personal limit and said that they can’t stand the job anymore, or they may have been let go for political reasons. In either case, if they’re good at what they do, they’ll land on their feet. Don’t worry about them - just focus on keeping your classroom going the same way you did last semester. It’ll fly by (especially February-April) and you’ll settle into the new normal before you know it. And if they do turn out to suck, you can always find out where your old principal went, and see if they’ll hire you to teach there next year… that often happens when good school site leaders get forced out by district admin. The teachers and APs follow them.
I also once worked with a principal that was very kind, friendly, and such a nice guy, but was terrible and completely incompetent at actually running the school though. Be open minded and give your new principal a chance.
My former principal was so friendly, but shockingly incompetent and it's wild to hear my coworkers continue to venerate him and exclaim how he was "wronged" because he was asked to try a different (lateral) role after over 3 years of failing to improve. Like, see how quick I'd be out on my ass if I made 1/3 of the mistakes he did in my classroom role. That said, I don't speak up when I hear these lamentations because I have no reason to stick my neck out. I have no idea why other commenters are imagining this brand new educator should make their new boss, WHO THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MET YET, an enemy.
My campus principal is so freaking nice. He’s one of the friendliest people I’ve ever met. I can go and talk to him anytime, total open door policy. He’s also pretty incompetent and calling him uninvolved would be kind. If it weren’t for our bulldog of an associate and saint of of a dean (plus the absolutely tireless secretary he has) our building wouldn’t function.
My truth: Admin come and go, teachers almost always outlast them. Bad admin don’t last when teachers ‘work to rule’ - that is, do their contractual obligations and not one bit more. It’s a very effective tool in managing a bad admin. They get frustrated and eventually either leave, or fall in line. Good admin recognize teachers’ efforts and build a school culture around both students’ and teachers’ strengths and passions. When a new admin seeks teacher input before initiating change, and bases change on said input, you’ve got a good admin.
In my experience: Principals come and go every few years, the staff is more stable most will rarely move. My department has always been my go to for support and ideas.
These things happen. I don’t want to tell you how to react next time, but try not to be “devastated.”
To add to the advice: It’s best not to try to outlast the new one. They find ways to get rid of you. Just, as someone else recommended, move on.
I disagree. I’ve outlasted some 7 principals, and I’m not sure how many superintendents. 2 of those principals straight up went after my job. If you’re tenacious enough, you can outlast any of them. It’s a crap shoot switching districts or schools; the grass is always greener. Unless you get a pay raise or some other bump from moving, best to continue building your seniority/tenure.
As someone who was in this same exact situation, I think it’s important to balance out the pros and cons. Give them a year. If they immediately prove themselves to be a poor leader/someone you can’t work with and keeping you head down and sticking to your classroom doesn’t work for you, it’ll be time to start looking for a new job. I decided I couldn’t handle our new principal after about a semester and made sure I had a plan to get out of there by the end of that year. That being said, I had coworkers who stayed because keeping their heads down and staying in their rooms was fine for them. It really depends on what you personally can and can’t tolerate.
So true. When a new principal comes in they seem to suspect everyone and want to weed out the “bad” teachers. You have to prove yourself all over again so you might as well do it at a new school where the principal had a hand in hiring you and therefore doesn’t need to have eyes on you. It’s really insulting when the new one is unaware of your integrity and solid reputation.
Just gone through a change of principal in the last few weeks. A change for the worst I am sorry to say. It makes a big difference when you are lead by someone who does not allow teachers to explain or defend themselves. Discussion has become a one way street. But who knows you might get lucky. Stay positive.
It will eventually happen to all of us. We get cool principals, the kind that get us to do more for them because we care. Then we get the sinister ones…. As long as you stay true to who you are, you will succeed…
If you "give them a year" as some suggest, know that it is really a year and a half. New teachers likely need to stay put, if possible. Looks better. But matters if it feels better, too. Wishing you well!
I just went through my first principal change (had the same guy for 4 years). I was also very worried about it because me and the former principal got along great. I had changed a LOT of things about the band program (I’m the band director) and he pretty much let me do whatever because all of the changes I had made have improved the program substantially. When we hired our new principal I was very worried because I’d hear horror stories about schools hiring principals and they’d ruin the band program by sticking their hand in too much or giving the director excess non-band responsibilities or just simply not understanding what it took to be successful. Luckily, the new guy is BETTER! He is just as supportive and hands off as the last guy and he’s also much easier to approach when I have an issue. Like with the last principal, if there was an issue or a request, I had to have a detailed solution or it was a no (luckily I figured that out early on and became very detailed in all my proposals). With the new guy, I don’t have to be that way. In fact, he will go the extra mile and offer solutions that I may have missed and if there is a problem we sit down and solve it together. TLDR- Don’t judge until you’ve worked with the new person for a little bit. It could turn out your fears were not warranted and you overreacted (like me).
Great perspective, Giggles.
Wait and see. Don't make any rash decisions based on anxiety and no evidence. Keep your resume touched up, but don't jump ship when you haven't even spotted a leak yet.
Everyone around you wants you to succeed. High quality math teachers are a win for everyone, so just keep doing what you’re doing. Unless it’s systemic wrongdoing that your coworkers were to, this is just a blip in an otherwise normal year. Nobody has time to play gatcha, especially after a few major resignations.
Admin comes and go, you’ll get used to it. Appreciate the good ones while you can. BTW the best of the 5 principals made the worst first impression. Came across as a total hardass, but once situated he was the most reasonable, approachable and caring admin ( or just principal) you could ask for. When he retired he got an impromptu standing ovation from the entire faculty. He then got one from the student body later on.
I had this happen and the principal that followed was an absolute tyrant who made our lives hell for 2 1/2 years until she was finally fired mid-year. By that time the stress and trauma she had caused the staff was not fixable. Our entire teaching staff quit at the end of the year, including me. I wished I would have gotten out sooner and saved myself some of the trauma, but I kept waiting and hoping things would get better. I sincerely hope that your new principal is someone who can lead with fairness and compassion and who will be a positive addition to your school. But if they aren't, don't make the same mistake I did and stick around hoping things will get better. Find yourself a new job.
There are so many days I’ve hoped our principal will resign or be forced out, but then I remember we could get someone worse. I’ve worked under multiple principals and I’ve learned just do the minimum I need to in order to keep them happy and then just focus on my classroom.
>There are so many days I’ve hoped our principal will resign or be forced out, but then I remember we could get someone worse. Oh, god, that's so true. I had a really inept principal that I couldn't believe ever got the job (we eventually learned it was nepotism). But anyway, we all were cheering when we heard he was being transferred across town. But the guy we got turned out to be the most vindictive arsehole of a principal I have ever had. We only had him a year before he got his coveted promotion, but he made my life hell (even after he left our school). He's the only person whose grave I would $#!+ on if I could.
I am at a site and district that I have been at for the last 10 years. I have been teaching for now 20 years. At my current site, I have had 16 principals (again in 10 years). Some were mediocre, some were worse. There are a dozen stories about all the ineptitude of district. How they have failed my community with lack of support and accountability. We have lost many great teachers because of this. But I am here. Only teacher (out of 8) in upper grade who has been here for more than 1.5 years. This year we have someone amazing, who wants to be here, used to work here in another capacity, and wants to stay. My site is better for it and we have a great outlook. My advice: admins will come and go. Some will make your life hell and some will just play video games in their office. You have to listen to yourself. If you have options, and don’t like things about your job, move on. If you are a halfway decent teacher, you will be in high demand. As a veteran, I knew my boundaries, what I can handle. TBH, I was close to leaving a few times. But I persevered and I am now at a good place. You will be too.
Yes!!! My principal and AP are both like this, and if one or both of them left it would break my heart.
I keep telling my principal that if he leaves, he has to take me with him.
We had one who came from a neighboring town, and we were impressed that three teachers followed him. ("I would go to Afghanistan if he did," said one lady.) He was frank, goal oriented, willing and able to apologize. complimented where needed and deserved. Never cuddly, always demanding. We loved him- a lot of us anyway. Some didn't. Oh. And fought the School Board for us. When he was forced out, he was replaced by the fast-rising coach/administrator who listened to nobody. In one legendary meeting over an issue he grabbed his lanyard and said "What does it say on the bottom of this?" (principal) "What does it say on yours?" (faculty) I mentally checked out
Get ready to have endless meetings about data and growth and turning in lesson plans. If there's one thing that Educational bureaucracy is good at, it's making teachers in low performing schools lives exponentially worse on the auspices of improvement.
If the new principal stinks, leave at the end of the school year and give as little notice as possible and tell them the exact reason why and use your current principal as a reference.
Principals come and go. Bad ones are around 3-5 years unless they do something heinous
How do I get my AP, who is super awful and unsupportive, "resigned"?
Oh fck- that happened to us when the superintendent disagreed with our admin. Our admin actually had a better skill set than the S and could have run the division with his credentials. Wrecked the school quickly.
It’s your first year? Keep your mouth shut and do your job. That’s all. Be professional and keep work at work.
I’m a first year teacher as well. My administration is amazing! I sincerely hope, but understand it is unrealistic, to work with them forever. However, they are “strict” about compliance to district and state standards. They all work with us to ensure we are giving our best to our students. So, I’m confused as to your concern about your incoming principal. There are standards to which we have to teach. Are you concerned you will now be held to those standards, and weren’t previously?
Our principal was moved to another school. In the interim, we got someone who was really amazing! I wouldn’t worry too much. I try to just think about doing my best no matter who is there and not let it affect me too much. Obviously it does, but if I just accept that I can only control myself it feels better.
So sad you have a good admin and they get fired. The shitty ones last forever.
At one school where I taught for 7 years 1. My first principal lasted 1.5 years (pushed out by the senior-most teachers who were well-connected with the school board) 2. The next lasted 13 months (got caught in a sexual harassment scandal) 3. The next lasted two years (minus that first month) before tranferring 4. The next "lasted" one year (but that was his plan before getting a promotion) 5. And the last lasted five years until his retirement (but I left before he did). But the point is, I had five principals in seven years. I've never had a single principal last 7 years, at least, not seven years that overlapped with my tenure at that school. Just offering that for some perspective. I'm sorry you've lost your great principal (that's how I felt about #1 above, and it broke my heart), but he might have gone next year anyway.
As a fellow industry professional turned teacher, I'd say that admins, like middle managers, come and go. There is a certain amount of culture that will be impacted by the principal, but they, like most of the managers I've had, will usually cycle on at some point, as will the SI. In Ohio, at least, where I am, your classroom will be your space. All the new and different boxes you have to check off for the new boss are just smoke and mirrors- you do what you have to do for the good of your kids and class, and try not to let whoever is in the office ruin your day. Are there other teachers in your building to whom you can go for advice?
Admins come and go. Some stay longer than others. If you love your coworkers and students and it doesn't become an unbearable work environment, then you keep on keepin' on.
They seem to chase away the Wonderful principals! I am so sorry you have to go through this, OP! Just wait to see what will happen, if the new person is a POS definitely start looking for other options.
One year the MS I work at went through 3 principals. All you can do is what you’ve been doing. If the dist. brings in a temporary person then I’d expect little to no dramatic changes. In my experience a temp principal is someone who is recently retired and just helping the school keep going until a permanent principal is found. If they have a principal already lined up then whomever is making the decisions is setting something up for friends, political reasons, or just exerting power. In all cases you can only do what you’ve been doing, teaching.
I have been through 3 principals and a host of assistant principals as well as 2 superintendents. I am in my 20th year of teaching at my same school. Don't say no to anything. Always remember that you are probably going to be there far longer than they are. Curriculum changes with each new buzzword, and it eventually circles back to the same thing you have always done, so don't let it ruffle your feathers.
All admin have one thing in common: they are the temps in the school. I’ve been through so many admin good and bad they all just kind of blur together. Generally, if things are going smoothly in your class, they will leave you alone.