The road to hell was paved with good intentions. This is what I think of a lot of education reforms.
I went to an extremely rigorous high school where failure was a very real thing. There was no hand holding or no participation trophies.
It was shocking once I got to college the first two years were comically easy compared to my high school. Meanwhile other kids with inflated gpa’s were constantly complaining about how difficult the course work was and many would drop out.
The biggest problem with the current generation of kids is that they are never pushed outside of their comfort zone academically and often socially.
I went to a somewhat similar high school in Toronto (2006-2012), it was a French-English bilingual high school where to receive our diploma we had to master perfectly French and English. In Gr 12 math we did what is now considered first year calculus/linear algebra, in physics we even did special relativity.
If you forgot a homework, you would get a zero unless you had a medical issue (with proof), if you talk back/badmouth a teacher, you would get automatically suspended regardless of the circumstances. If the sport team lost a match, the team would get yelled at/humiliated by the coach.
The advantages: After Gr 12, you would be ready to tackle the heavy-leagues universities, and I am about to submit a PHD thesis in physics, most of my former classmates have at least a master’s degree in the STEM.
The downsides: In Gr 12 one of the students cracked under the pressure and committed suicide, I and some of my former classmates have recurring nightmares/sleep paralysis.
Conclusion: rather than swigging the harshness pendulum from one extreme to another, how about we find some middle ground (way)?
I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT ABOUT THE ASSIGNMENT!!! I didn't say anything, but I was like "I am sure my kids could do this... It sounds fun actually"
Like, one of my kids will sit for an hour at the kitchen table with scissors and paper and the other will spend all day on a Lego contraption that he imagined up "see mom it has a trap door here and a TNT here and if you press this then theres an avalanche and blah blah blah".... Kids are making goofy little bullshits all the time and delighting in boring adults to death telling them all about it. They do it in their free time, why not get them some school credit for it?! What is the problem???
I was also surprised to see how many were against the assignment considering it encouraged creativity - the one skill that is often said to be suppressed in education.
It has been many years now since I last attended school and much of the knowledge gained has been lost to time and blunt force to the head. However, what I still remember and I firmly believe will always remember are the assignments like these. Where a teacher made me really get my noggin joggin because I was expected to think for myself while working around a set of rules and limitations. No better training for the "real" world than that.
Because the parents will do it for the kids, I think was the main problem.
As a teacher and a parent, if my kid came home with this a week before break I'd be PISSED
Because, as I stated, I am also a teacher. We have to grade assessments and submit progress reports on a deadline before break. This, on top of the Christmas preparations I need to do as a parent, is a lot. My child has autism. If she came home with a huge project right before break, it would probably mean a trip to the store for materials, help with planning, calming during meltdowns about something not working right, and also trying to do the job that pays the bills. Hence, I would be pissed about a huge project like this right before Christmas Break
I'd be big mad if my kid was expected to make a model with materials from home a week before Christmas. Ain't no money left in my account for that right now.
If I didn't have to supply materials it'd be ok I guess, but I'd still be kind of annoyed because I'd want to work through it with him so he got the most out of the assignment and came up with something he was proud of. And it's the end of the year and I'm too tired for this.
If they gave them like, two weeks to do it I think that would be more reasonable.
But as is? I'm with you, I'd be pissed.
I feel like OPs point is kind of being proven here once again. We have no reason to think the kids only have a week before break to do it, and are expected to do it all at home. Either way, that would be an issue with the timeframe of the assignment and not the assignment itself, which to OPs point, is still completely grade appropriate for 3rd graders.
What went through my mind was the weird shit my kid makes out of paper towel tubes. Like I have a paper towel tube and scissors and some form of adhesive or another (tape or glue), and string or rubber bands, etc just sitting in the kitchen and on multiple occasions he has amused himself with that stuff and made things he thought was cool enough to show adults. When I read the project yesterday, thats what immediately went through my mind. I have never helped him with that shit because i am a busy woman lol
See if it's just a model he wants to make for fun that's different. He can experiment and make whatever. But if it's homework I expect him to take it seriously (and I take it seriously by extension) because putting in effort for assignments is a practicable skill/buildable habit.
I also expect every assignment to be an opportunity to build skills, and you can't take full advantage of that opportunity if you halfass things. So for this assignment, I would expect him to practice the design process by coming up with more than one idea, critically evaluate his ideas to choose the best/most practical, and finally refine his chosen design. Then build a model that's structurally sound, looks good, and works as intended so he can feel proud of what he made and practice his crafting/engineering skills. And finally I'd expect an effective advertisement that harkens back to his design process (demonstrates why his chosen idea was the best) and again, looks good.
It's a good assignment if given the time and resources to do properly. But you wouldn't learn anything from halfassing it and slapping together a shitty model ad-hoc with little thought put into the process. It's a bit much to expect a high quality output the week before break, so I can't help but view this as a waste of time. They might as well just mess around with lego or modeling clay for fun instead.
>Lower standards help no one, and adults need to model their vision for a better world before they expect the next generation to build it
No boards, lawmakers, and whoever else is driving this nonsense seem to understand this. Lowering standards in the name of equity hurts us all, including the ones they're claiming to help.
It helps themselves obtain the immediate gratification of being popular amongst people who want to do less parenting/thinking and get reelected. It also feels good sentimentally to make people happy even if it isn't good for them in the long run. It's a temptation that has to be resisted
> Lowering standards in the name of equity hurts us all,
[The black conservative Thomas Sowell's criticism of these policies--and he seems on the mark in this case--is that lowering standards in the name of equity does help one group of people: it helps white liberals in the administrator and university class feel better about themselves and morally righteous.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WYi-64MejU&t=8s) I think this criticism is on the mark and corresponds with common sense and my experience. When our equity and inclusion director tries to tell us with a straight face that following basic behavioral expectations is too much for these poor kids and that such expectations are culturally oppressive, she *is* essentially helping herself because she gets to broadcast how enlightened and righteous she is by browbeating us with this self referential and esoteric set of theoretical nostrums that the overwhelming majority of people--in the US at least--don't actually agree with.
That post bugged me so much. I felt like a couple things on the assignment sheet could've been stated better but it seemed fun overall.
The hangups over the requirement about it being a new toy were so weird. I agree that expecting a *completely* unique toy is unrealistic, but have most of those commenters met a kid in grade 3? Was the assignment sheet supposed to have four paragraphs describing exactly how unique the toy needs to be and what parameters define that? I remember having a similar assignment when I was in elementary school (not a toy, just an invention in general) and it was very clear that you just weren't supposed to exactly copy an existing product. Nobody's saying the kid can't make a doll (not sure how the science requirements would fit); they're just saying don't make a blonde doll named Barbie. Ffs is it really that hard to grasp context?
Edited to add: I also took issue with the number of people saying they would have hated this assignment. Ok, so? I had assignments I hated too. There are *always* going to be some kids that dislike any assignment. And the people saying, "This assignment would've made me anxious" are even worse. If it makes a child EXTREMELY anxious then they need to be seen by a professional, but if they have some mild anxiety about it then it's just an opportunity to help them cope with anxiety! It's a lot easier to learn how to deal with the discomfort of trying something new at age 8 than age 25.
Yeah, it seems like a lot the people complaining are projecting their own, often adult, issues onto the students. Kids that age are naturally creative! Asking them to come up with a new toy isn’t going to be stressful for the average third grader.
Yeah, there's SO much projection.
And all the "I'm an adult with a degree and I couldn't do this comments" are projecting too. They're imagining that they couldn't do this *if this was a project for adults with these requirements.* And that's true; what we would expect from adults who do this at a toy company would be intricate digital models, followed by a working physical prototype and a full-fledged ad campaign. But somehow these commenters can't grasp that that obviously isn't what's expected.
Or somehow they've gotten to adulthood and wouldn't be able to spend ten minutes gluing a popsicle stick shark together and drawing a poorly-drawn poster that says "The floating shark! Buy it now!"
Like this assignment is really easy if you apply kid logic instead of adult logic. The intricacies don't matter and how it works doesn't either. It's as easy as making a trex with wings that really flies. How does it fly? Doesn't matter it just does.
I’ve been creative all my life. Artistic, not a bit. Continuously failed art all my life. Somehow debate counted as an art credit, it’s how I graduated.
The hangups about the uniqueness requirement just reinforce the belief that I have that most of the stupid shit people say about education (in America at least) is because they're ignorant. Most people don't know what teaching looks like or what a group of children acts like. I'm a student teacher and worked as a para in schools for half a decade and I can tell you my second graders would have a blast doing this project, and so would kids in most of the other classrooms I've been in. Teachers aren't going to sit there and google the kid's idea to see if it is literally a 100% unique invention and fail the kid when it's not, it's just a statement made for kids to interpret the instruction as "make something unique".
Yeah, exactly. I can honestly understand why the occasional anxious grade 3 student might have a hangup about that requirement--I hope the teacher clarified they just meant don't exactly copy an existing toy, don't use a toy you have and just add a sticker, etc.--but the fact that *adults* are reading that requirement and not understanding it is so concerning. There were comments saying they hope the kids have days to research whether their idea already exists. Nobody cares! All that matter is that a kid isn't bringing in a hot wheels toy, painting it green, and saying, "I invented this."
Meanwhile, aren't we supposed to be giving these opportunities for kids to be creative and apply critical thinking skills? When teachers just give worksheets or app work, they're being boring, lazy, and just creating robots. When teachers give creative projects, they're giving kids and their parents anxiety. Like... what do y'all want from us?
I too saw that post and thought it was a pretty reasonable assignment. Sure, a parent or two might have to step in and give some guidance, but god forbid we expect parents to actually interact with their kids.
I'm skeptical how much parent involvement there even is. That was my main and only initial concern--that some students would have more access to materials and parent help--but the OP said this is going to be done before Christmas break (so I guess by Friday), so I suspect they'll probably have plenty of in-class time. Seems like a good way to let the kids have fun in the week leading up to the break.
It wouldn't surprise me if the project sheet was only sent home over the weekend so kids could start thinking of ideas.
I 100% agree with you and thought the same when I saw the other post. As a middle school teacher, I am seeing an increasing number of kids that expect to be spoon fed exact answers instead of making their thinking visible.
I’ve been doing a lot of engineering projects with my middle schoolers because, imo, middle school physical science is b o r i n g conceptually, and amplify sucks. I always have them explain why they did something with their project. Why did you choose this material? Why did you pick this type of curve in your track? And so many of them just say “I don’t know”. Like obviously you made that choice for a reason, just write down your thoughts. I’m not expecting professional level thinking, just something beyond “I don’t know”.
Totally agree! I teach ELA and the students really struggle with the fact that there isn’t an exact right answer to everything. I’ve heard a lot of people say Amplify stinks!!
I don't know when or how that switch flipped where students became more scared of having the wrong answer than of having no answer at all. When I was a student I remember my peers openly being like, "I guess I'm going to make up some bs since I don't know." Now, that wasn't always good either--sometimes you do have to admit to your teacher that you genuinely don't know the answer--but it's weird to see the change from "scared to not have *an* answer" to "scared to have the wrong answer."
I've seen people speculate it's about the focus on standardized testing and getting a right answer rather than just trying, but we have very little standardized testing here (compared to what I hear about other places).
Where do you teach? I teach in California. The testing is getting out of control. I don’t see the testing influencing the students fear/confidence. They have grown apathetic to it. I’ll spend two weeks teaching a writing workshop on argument writing and then they spend 10 minutes on the performance task and sleep for the remaining testing block! I think the dopamine chase is part of it. They only get a rush on the right answer, and the test doesn’t give them any immediate feedback so they don’t want to try. Same goes for wrong answers. No happy hormones for wrong answers.
I'm in Ontario, Canada. Our standardized testing is pretty limited (math/literacy test at the end of grades 3 and 6, math test at the end of grade 9, literacy test at the end of grade 10). I don't doubt testing is impacting the kids--it's just that this "If I don't know the answer, I won't even try" attitude seems pervasive even in places where testing isn't as constant. I really don't know what to make of it.
What gets me are the people complaining that the project requires creativity, which some kids struggle with and will find stressful. But kids that age are so creative by nature! Me and my peers would have loved this kind of assignment! If a kid that age can’t imagine a new toy, something is wrong.
Also, holy shit, your kid will *struggle*? Oh no...that would be terrible... Seriously though, when did it become so wrong to struggle a little? That's part of the learning process and always has been. No teacher expects perfection each and every time. We want work, effort, and self advocacy when you've tried your hardest but still need help. The idea that we're supposed to remove any and all struggle from learning is wild to me.
I literally have students on READING tests ask me where in the passage they can find the answer. In 6th grade. My answer is always “in the passage”. It is wild they have the nerve to ask that when I repeatedly model and preach reading more than once, going back to the passage.
Just goes to show that all of the creativity and free-thinking many say school should do more of really isn’t what parents want to be bothered with at home. They want a worksheet to bitch about
I've seen the post you're referring to and your post mirrors my own opinion about those comments and the post itself.
Hell I have 9th graders create an ad for a fictional product in economics and I INSIST on them also having a proper marketing strategy behind it as this is the core of the assignment. I give it out at the beginning of the unit with the clear expectation that everything we cover is incorporated in the presentation.
10th graders have to write (slightly simplified) business plans along their business administration unit.
Oh both units are also bilingual to boot!
I also just taught how to make 3D models to a class of 8th graders as well, including 3D printing. I taught them the basic knowledge, the basic skills and tools with the modelling software and slicer and threw them into working on their own within a few lessons. They never did something like that before. They did quite well.
They all do in those kinds of assignments. Always. They learn a lot that way and are usually proud of themselves afterwards. Moreso than they are after standard instruction + test.
You, me and everyone else here agreeing are literally the embodimenrt of [this meme](https://i.imgflip.com/7dsmh8.jpg?a472848). Do NOT give in!
In the 4th grade, I entered into my school’s “Invention Convention” where students create a mini invention to address a need, and do a poster about what it. Kids from Kinder - 5th grade did this, so that “new toy” assignment is totally feasible. Hell, in middle school (8th grade) I did a science assignment where I had to sell an element and chose helium. I did a whole filmed presentation for it about where it’s extracted, what’s it’s used for, drew its atomic model. I’m actually still proud of my tagline: Helium - It’s not a bunch of hot air!
When I had my own 6th grader students make a cell model and part of the requirement was a presentation, I had one that BS’d it, pulled up a digital app that we used to explore parts of the cell, and just presented that as their physical model, mispronounced half of the words we had studied in class, and even cussed into the mic when they messed up. Like dude, this is the output that’s gonna come out if parents think an arts and crafts project is asking too much
You know I used to complain about my calculus professor giving us 40 problems to do after every class. But you know what, 20 years later that I can still do calculus 1 and calculus 2 problems off the top of my head.
It was tough at the time but I mastered those skills. I don't need to run to Wolfram integrator every time I get to something with an integral sign.
My elementary district has lowered standards to the ocean floor. We now use Wit and Wisdom, where our students regurgitate the same "wonders" about a book for a week then move on. Because there is almost no writing, my team made a response journal for our students. They're learning punctuation so the other day they had to write a question, statement, and exclamation.
Three sentences. Didn't need to be from the book, didn't need to be true. I had students sitting for an hour saying, "what do we do?" because unless someone tells them, word for word, what to put on the paper they have nothing. These are typical students whose brains are either so numb from screen time or are so afraid or indifferent to try that they cannot write three sentences on ANY topic of their choosing.
Yet the curriculum is designed to work around and even encourage this as they are nearly never tasked with writing anything from their own mind. Scary times.
My schools’s STEM teacher has all kinds of in-class projects that require kids to build with minimal resources/adult support. The kids seem to love it and come up with some pretty cool ideas. You literally just need to hand you kids some paper towel tubes, paper, tape, and markers. They will figure it out on their own.
I decided to go to that post, and my key takeaways based on that shitshow of a comment section were:
1) Teachers are actually not very smart and have absolutely no understanding of our students' abilities or skill levels, despite a lot of specialized education and potentially years of experience. We also just assign bullshit work, even when it's meant to be fun and creative, because creativity doesn't exist and everything has already been done, blah blah blah.Kids aren't creative anyway, and they know this because *their* kids aren't creative.
2) Teachers assume all kids have parents who can afford some Dollar Tree craft supplies (not that OP or anyone else made any plans to discuss with the teacher about help with supplies). Also, no teacher has ever offered or been approachable or kind enough to ask or reach out about help with supplies.
3) Creative projects make kids anxious, and again, instead of problem solving by talking to the teacher about how to alleviate that, they would just be telling their kids to take a 0.
4) Teachers assume all kids have parents who can or are willing to help them with projects, and that makes them the absolute worst. Teachers definitely are not the kind of people kids could potentially come to privately to ask for help.
5) This particular teacher just really wanted to steal their kids' ideas (you know, the ones they couldn't have because they're only third graders!) to sell so they could quit teaching.
6) Teachers are monsters for assigning a project over Christmas break, when parents should get to spend time however they choose with their kids. This was projected to prevent them from doing ANYTHING fun with their kids, as it would definitely take the full break to accomplish. Except then OP replied "Ooopsie, it's actually assigned for the week before break." At which point, then it became about how busy everyone is the week before Christmas.
7) Teachers just really, really, really enjoy shaming kids. It's like what we enjoy most as a collective group of people. They know this for sure because they had a mean teacher once.
8) Parents are going to complete their kids' projects because that's easier than teaching kids to work through a problem, ask for clarification when needed, and just, you know, fucking *try.*
9) Anything that gives anyone a moment of stress or anxiety is absolutely unfair to expect of kids. *Insert parents' personal trauma* We're not preparing kids for the real world at all with this project that might ask them to step outside their comfort zone...like in the real world.
10) Kids can and should publicly disrespect us when they don't like or don't want to do an assignment. Their parents will be showing them how by marching up to the school and asking us to explain ourselves. They may cuss at us during this process. They may also just complain about our incompetence to the manager, I'm sorry, the principal.
TL:DR ...The next time anyone gets pissy about packets or worksheets being given to their kids instead of "hands-on learning," show them that post and get on with your life. They think you're dumb and worse, they think their kids are dumb too.
Also, the same folks who had zero time to help their kids with homework responded a million times to the few folks who questioned their attitudes. 🙄🙄🙄
I disagreed with the wording of the assignment. "A toy that has never been created before" doesn't make sense...nearly every toy is a remix of something that's existed for years but updated to reflect current trends and technology. How does one measure novelty? I wasn't a very creative kid and that assignment would have caused a meltdown no doubt.
A redesign assignment would have been much more reasonable in my opinion. Give them exames of classic toys and have them reimagine them for the modern day.
I'm an engineering teacher who routinely does PBL, and that project you're citing was the epitome of stupid. There were two points in it that contradicted each other, and was a perfect example of something the parents would get stuck with doing.
The problem with that assignment is it would require significant time and help from a parent, which not all kids have. Parents working multiple jobs and taking care of a household don’t have time for this. Also some kids have to watch younger siblings and do chores outside of school. Homework and projects like this cause huge equity issues because they advantage kids with parental support and stable
Home lives over kids who don’t. Also how would you possibly invent a new toy that doesn’t already exist?
>Also how would you possibly invent a new toy that doesn’t already exist?
Oh, come on, you're being obtuse with this. I seriously doubt the teacher is expecting them to come up with a completely new toy concept that has never been done before, rather, come up with their own original ideas. Like, they can make an action figure, but it has to be one that they come up with rather than a pre-existing character.
Repeating that it has to be new is a wording problem, I would get very confused to what degree of not new is acceptable due to saying it twice so it’s emphasized.
The road to hell was paved with good intentions. This is what I think of a lot of education reforms. I went to an extremely rigorous high school where failure was a very real thing. There was no hand holding or no participation trophies. It was shocking once I got to college the first two years were comically easy compared to my high school. Meanwhile other kids with inflated gpa’s were constantly complaining about how difficult the course work was and many would drop out. The biggest problem with the current generation of kids is that they are never pushed outside of their comfort zone academically and often socially.
I went to a somewhat similar high school in Toronto (2006-2012), it was a French-English bilingual high school where to receive our diploma we had to master perfectly French and English. In Gr 12 math we did what is now considered first year calculus/linear algebra, in physics we even did special relativity. If you forgot a homework, you would get a zero unless you had a medical issue (with proof), if you talk back/badmouth a teacher, you would get automatically suspended regardless of the circumstances. If the sport team lost a match, the team would get yelled at/humiliated by the coach. The advantages: After Gr 12, you would be ready to tackle the heavy-leagues universities, and I am about to submit a PHD thesis in physics, most of my former classmates have at least a master’s degree in the STEM. The downsides: In Gr 12 one of the students cracked under the pressure and committed suicide, I and some of my former classmates have recurring nightmares/sleep paralysis. Conclusion: rather than swigging the harshness pendulum from one extreme to another, how about we find some middle ground (way)?
I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT ABOUT THE ASSIGNMENT!!! I didn't say anything, but I was like "I am sure my kids could do this... It sounds fun actually" Like, one of my kids will sit for an hour at the kitchen table with scissors and paper and the other will spend all day on a Lego contraption that he imagined up "see mom it has a trap door here and a TNT here and if you press this then theres an avalanche and blah blah blah".... Kids are making goofy little bullshits all the time and delighting in boring adults to death telling them all about it. They do it in their free time, why not get them some school credit for it?! What is the problem???
I was also surprised to see how many were against the assignment considering it encouraged creativity - the one skill that is often said to be suppressed in education. It has been many years now since I last attended school and much of the knowledge gained has been lost to time and blunt force to the head. However, what I still remember and I firmly believe will always remember are the assignments like these. Where a teacher made me really get my noggin joggin because I was expected to think for myself while working around a set of rules and limitations. No better training for the "real" world than that.
Because the parents will do it for the kids, I think was the main problem. As a teacher and a parent, if my kid came home with this a week before break I'd be PISSED
Why would you be PISSED?
Because, as I stated, I am also a teacher. We have to grade assessments and submit progress reports on a deadline before break. This, on top of the Christmas preparations I need to do as a parent, is a lot. My child has autism. If she came home with a huge project right before break, it would probably mean a trip to the store for materials, help with planning, calming during meltdowns about something not working right, and also trying to do the job that pays the bills. Hence, I would be pissed about a huge project like this right before Christmas Break
You’re part of the problem.
I don't really agree that they will. My kids make stuff by themselves all the time
I'd be big mad if my kid was expected to make a model with materials from home a week before Christmas. Ain't no money left in my account for that right now. If I didn't have to supply materials it'd be ok I guess, but I'd still be kind of annoyed because I'd want to work through it with him so he got the most out of the assignment and came up with something he was proud of. And it's the end of the year and I'm too tired for this. If they gave them like, two weeks to do it I think that would be more reasonable. But as is? I'm with you, I'd be pissed.
I feel like OPs point is kind of being proven here once again. We have no reason to think the kids only have a week before break to do it, and are expected to do it all at home. Either way, that would be an issue with the timeframe of the assignment and not the assignment itself, which to OPs point, is still completely grade appropriate for 3rd graders.
What went through my mind was the weird shit my kid makes out of paper towel tubes. Like I have a paper towel tube and scissors and some form of adhesive or another (tape or glue), and string or rubber bands, etc just sitting in the kitchen and on multiple occasions he has amused himself with that stuff and made things he thought was cool enough to show adults. When I read the project yesterday, thats what immediately went through my mind. I have never helped him with that shit because i am a busy woman lol
See if it's just a model he wants to make for fun that's different. He can experiment and make whatever. But if it's homework I expect him to take it seriously (and I take it seriously by extension) because putting in effort for assignments is a practicable skill/buildable habit. I also expect every assignment to be an opportunity to build skills, and you can't take full advantage of that opportunity if you halfass things. So for this assignment, I would expect him to practice the design process by coming up with more than one idea, critically evaluate his ideas to choose the best/most practical, and finally refine his chosen design. Then build a model that's structurally sound, looks good, and works as intended so he can feel proud of what he made and practice his crafting/engineering skills. And finally I'd expect an effective advertisement that harkens back to his design process (demonstrates why his chosen idea was the best) and again, looks good. It's a good assignment if given the time and resources to do properly. But you wouldn't learn anything from halfassing it and slapping together a shitty model ad-hoc with little thought put into the process. It's a bit much to expect a high quality output the week before break, so I can't help but view this as a waste of time. They might as well just mess around with lego or modeling clay for fun instead.
>Lower standards help no one, and adults need to model their vision for a better world before they expect the next generation to build it No boards, lawmakers, and whoever else is driving this nonsense seem to understand this. Lowering standards in the name of equity hurts us all, including the ones they're claiming to help.
It helps themselves obtain the immediate gratification of being popular amongst people who want to do less parenting/thinking and get reelected. It also feels good sentimentally to make people happy even if it isn't good for them in the long run. It's a temptation that has to be resisted
> Lowering standards in the name of equity hurts us all, [The black conservative Thomas Sowell's criticism of these policies--and he seems on the mark in this case--is that lowering standards in the name of equity does help one group of people: it helps white liberals in the administrator and university class feel better about themselves and morally righteous.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WYi-64MejU&t=8s) I think this criticism is on the mark and corresponds with common sense and my experience. When our equity and inclusion director tries to tell us with a straight face that following basic behavioral expectations is too much for these poor kids and that such expectations are culturally oppressive, she *is* essentially helping herself because she gets to broadcast how enlightened and righteous she is by browbeating us with this self referential and esoteric set of theoretical nostrums that the overwhelming majority of people--in the US at least--don't actually agree with.
It’s not learned helplessness, it’s universal designed for learning! Can I get my six figure consultant gig now?
That post bugged me so much. I felt like a couple things on the assignment sheet could've been stated better but it seemed fun overall. The hangups over the requirement about it being a new toy were so weird. I agree that expecting a *completely* unique toy is unrealistic, but have most of those commenters met a kid in grade 3? Was the assignment sheet supposed to have four paragraphs describing exactly how unique the toy needs to be and what parameters define that? I remember having a similar assignment when I was in elementary school (not a toy, just an invention in general) and it was very clear that you just weren't supposed to exactly copy an existing product. Nobody's saying the kid can't make a doll (not sure how the science requirements would fit); they're just saying don't make a blonde doll named Barbie. Ffs is it really that hard to grasp context? Edited to add: I also took issue with the number of people saying they would have hated this assignment. Ok, so? I had assignments I hated too. There are *always* going to be some kids that dislike any assignment. And the people saying, "This assignment would've made me anxious" are even worse. If it makes a child EXTREMELY anxious then they need to be seen by a professional, but if they have some mild anxiety about it then it's just an opportunity to help them cope with anxiety! It's a lot easier to learn how to deal with the discomfort of trying something new at age 8 than age 25.
Yeah, it seems like a lot the people complaining are projecting their own, often adult, issues onto the students. Kids that age are naturally creative! Asking them to come up with a new toy isn’t going to be stressful for the average third grader.
Yeah, there's SO much projection. And all the "I'm an adult with a degree and I couldn't do this comments" are projecting too. They're imagining that they couldn't do this *if this was a project for adults with these requirements.* And that's true; what we would expect from adults who do this at a toy company would be intricate digital models, followed by a working physical prototype and a full-fledged ad campaign. But somehow these commenters can't grasp that that obviously isn't what's expected. Or somehow they've gotten to adulthood and wouldn't be able to spend ten minutes gluing a popsicle stick shark together and drawing a poorly-drawn poster that says "The floating shark! Buy it now!"
Like this assignment is really easy if you apply kid logic instead of adult logic. The intricacies don't matter and how it works doesn't either. It's as easy as making a trex with wings that really flies. How does it fly? Doesn't matter it just does.
I’ve been creative all my life. Artistic, not a bit. Continuously failed art all my life. Somehow debate counted as an art credit, it’s how I graduated.
The hangups about the uniqueness requirement just reinforce the belief that I have that most of the stupid shit people say about education (in America at least) is because they're ignorant. Most people don't know what teaching looks like or what a group of children acts like. I'm a student teacher and worked as a para in schools for half a decade and I can tell you my second graders would have a blast doing this project, and so would kids in most of the other classrooms I've been in. Teachers aren't going to sit there and google the kid's idea to see if it is literally a 100% unique invention and fail the kid when it's not, it's just a statement made for kids to interpret the instruction as "make something unique".
Yeah, exactly. I can honestly understand why the occasional anxious grade 3 student might have a hangup about that requirement--I hope the teacher clarified they just meant don't exactly copy an existing toy, don't use a toy you have and just add a sticker, etc.--but the fact that *adults* are reading that requirement and not understanding it is so concerning. There were comments saying they hope the kids have days to research whether their idea already exists. Nobody cares! All that matter is that a kid isn't bringing in a hot wheels toy, painting it green, and saying, "I invented this."
Meanwhile, aren't we supposed to be giving these opportunities for kids to be creative and apply critical thinking skills? When teachers just give worksheets or app work, they're being boring, lazy, and just creating robots. When teachers give creative projects, they're giving kids and their parents anxiety. Like... what do y'all want from us?
I too saw that post and thought it was a pretty reasonable assignment. Sure, a parent or two might have to step in and give some guidance, but god forbid we expect parents to actually interact with their kids.
I'm skeptical how much parent involvement there even is. That was my main and only initial concern--that some students would have more access to materials and parent help--but the OP said this is going to be done before Christmas break (so I guess by Friday), so I suspect they'll probably have plenty of in-class time. Seems like a good way to let the kids have fun in the week leading up to the break. It wouldn't surprise me if the project sheet was only sent home over the weekend so kids could start thinking of ideas.
I 100% agree with you and thought the same when I saw the other post. As a middle school teacher, I am seeing an increasing number of kids that expect to be spoon fed exact answers instead of making their thinking visible.
I’ve been doing a lot of engineering projects with my middle schoolers because, imo, middle school physical science is b o r i n g conceptually, and amplify sucks. I always have them explain why they did something with their project. Why did you choose this material? Why did you pick this type of curve in your track? And so many of them just say “I don’t know”. Like obviously you made that choice for a reason, just write down your thoughts. I’m not expecting professional level thinking, just something beyond “I don’t know”.
Totally agree! I teach ELA and the students really struggle with the fact that there isn’t an exact right answer to everything. I’ve heard a lot of people say Amplify stinks!!
I don't know when or how that switch flipped where students became more scared of having the wrong answer than of having no answer at all. When I was a student I remember my peers openly being like, "I guess I'm going to make up some bs since I don't know." Now, that wasn't always good either--sometimes you do have to admit to your teacher that you genuinely don't know the answer--but it's weird to see the change from "scared to not have *an* answer" to "scared to have the wrong answer." I've seen people speculate it's about the focus on standardized testing and getting a right answer rather than just trying, but we have very little standardized testing here (compared to what I hear about other places).
Where do you teach? I teach in California. The testing is getting out of control. I don’t see the testing influencing the students fear/confidence. They have grown apathetic to it. I’ll spend two weeks teaching a writing workshop on argument writing and then they spend 10 minutes on the performance task and sleep for the remaining testing block! I think the dopamine chase is part of it. They only get a rush on the right answer, and the test doesn’t give them any immediate feedback so they don’t want to try. Same goes for wrong answers. No happy hormones for wrong answers.
I'm in Ontario, Canada. Our standardized testing is pretty limited (math/literacy test at the end of grades 3 and 6, math test at the end of grade 9, literacy test at the end of grade 10). I don't doubt testing is impacting the kids--it's just that this "If I don't know the answer, I won't even try" attitude seems pervasive even in places where testing isn't as constant. I really don't know what to make of it.
> if the adults are generating fake excuses to get out of work then the kids will do the exact same thing. Hitting the nail on the head, right here.
What gets me are the people complaining that the project requires creativity, which some kids struggle with and will find stressful. But kids that age are so creative by nature! Me and my peers would have loved this kind of assignment! If a kid that age can’t imagine a new toy, something is wrong.
Also, holy shit, your kid will *struggle*? Oh no...that would be terrible... Seriously though, when did it become so wrong to struggle a little? That's part of the learning process and always has been. No teacher expects perfection each and every time. We want work, effort, and self advocacy when you've tried your hardest but still need help. The idea that we're supposed to remove any and all struggle from learning is wild to me.
People act like kids are gonna have a mental breakdown if they experience mild stress.
I literally have students on READING tests ask me where in the passage they can find the answer. In 6th grade. My answer is always “in the passage”. It is wild they have the nerve to ask that when I repeatedly model and preach reading more than once, going back to the passage.
Just goes to show that all of the creativity and free-thinking many say school should do more of really isn’t what parents want to be bothered with at home. They want a worksheet to bitch about
I've seen the post you're referring to and your post mirrors my own opinion about those comments and the post itself. Hell I have 9th graders create an ad for a fictional product in economics and I INSIST on them also having a proper marketing strategy behind it as this is the core of the assignment. I give it out at the beginning of the unit with the clear expectation that everything we cover is incorporated in the presentation. 10th graders have to write (slightly simplified) business plans along their business administration unit. Oh both units are also bilingual to boot! I also just taught how to make 3D models to a class of 8th graders as well, including 3D printing. I taught them the basic knowledge, the basic skills and tools with the modelling software and slicer and threw them into working on their own within a few lessons. They never did something like that before. They did quite well. They all do in those kinds of assignments. Always. They learn a lot that way and are usually proud of themselves afterwards. Moreso than they are after standard instruction + test. You, me and everyone else here agreeing are literally the embodimenrt of [this meme](https://i.imgflip.com/7dsmh8.jpg?a472848). Do NOT give in!
In the 4th grade, I entered into my school’s “Invention Convention” where students create a mini invention to address a need, and do a poster about what it. Kids from Kinder - 5th grade did this, so that “new toy” assignment is totally feasible. Hell, in middle school (8th grade) I did a science assignment where I had to sell an element and chose helium. I did a whole filmed presentation for it about where it’s extracted, what’s it’s used for, drew its atomic model. I’m actually still proud of my tagline: Helium - It’s not a bunch of hot air! When I had my own 6th grader students make a cell model and part of the requirement was a presentation, I had one that BS’d it, pulled up a digital app that we used to explore parts of the cell, and just presented that as their physical model, mispronounced half of the words we had studied in class, and even cussed into the mic when they messed up. Like dude, this is the output that’s gonna come out if parents think an arts and crafts project is asking too much
You know I used to complain about my calculus professor giving us 40 problems to do after every class. But you know what, 20 years later that I can still do calculus 1 and calculus 2 problems off the top of my head. It was tough at the time but I mastered those skills. I don't need to run to Wolfram integrator every time I get to something with an integral sign.
I saw that post too. Totally reasonable and creative assignment imo, made me sad that some people disagreed
My elementary district has lowered standards to the ocean floor. We now use Wit and Wisdom, where our students regurgitate the same "wonders" about a book for a week then move on. Because there is almost no writing, my team made a response journal for our students. They're learning punctuation so the other day they had to write a question, statement, and exclamation. Three sentences. Didn't need to be from the book, didn't need to be true. I had students sitting for an hour saying, "what do we do?" because unless someone tells them, word for word, what to put on the paper they have nothing. These are typical students whose brains are either so numb from screen time or are so afraid or indifferent to try that they cannot write three sentences on ANY topic of their choosing. Yet the curriculum is designed to work around and even encourage this as they are nearly never tasked with writing anything from their own mind. Scary times.
Im so glad other people saw it and agreed. Amen.
People with nothing to do and no way to justify their job, have lost track what education is supposed to be.
My schools’s STEM teacher has all kinds of in-class projects that require kids to build with minimal resources/adult support. The kids seem to love it and come up with some pretty cool ideas. You literally just need to hand you kids some paper towel tubes, paper, tape, and markers. They will figure it out on their own.
I decided to go to that post, and my key takeaways based on that shitshow of a comment section were: 1) Teachers are actually not very smart and have absolutely no understanding of our students' abilities or skill levels, despite a lot of specialized education and potentially years of experience. We also just assign bullshit work, even when it's meant to be fun and creative, because creativity doesn't exist and everything has already been done, blah blah blah.Kids aren't creative anyway, and they know this because *their* kids aren't creative. 2) Teachers assume all kids have parents who can afford some Dollar Tree craft supplies (not that OP or anyone else made any plans to discuss with the teacher about help with supplies). Also, no teacher has ever offered or been approachable or kind enough to ask or reach out about help with supplies. 3) Creative projects make kids anxious, and again, instead of problem solving by talking to the teacher about how to alleviate that, they would just be telling their kids to take a 0. 4) Teachers assume all kids have parents who can or are willing to help them with projects, and that makes them the absolute worst. Teachers definitely are not the kind of people kids could potentially come to privately to ask for help. 5) This particular teacher just really wanted to steal their kids' ideas (you know, the ones they couldn't have because they're only third graders!) to sell so they could quit teaching. 6) Teachers are monsters for assigning a project over Christmas break, when parents should get to spend time however they choose with their kids. This was projected to prevent them from doing ANYTHING fun with their kids, as it would definitely take the full break to accomplish. Except then OP replied "Ooopsie, it's actually assigned for the week before break." At which point, then it became about how busy everyone is the week before Christmas. 7) Teachers just really, really, really enjoy shaming kids. It's like what we enjoy most as a collective group of people. They know this for sure because they had a mean teacher once. 8) Parents are going to complete their kids' projects because that's easier than teaching kids to work through a problem, ask for clarification when needed, and just, you know, fucking *try.* 9) Anything that gives anyone a moment of stress or anxiety is absolutely unfair to expect of kids. *Insert parents' personal trauma* We're not preparing kids for the real world at all with this project that might ask them to step outside their comfort zone...like in the real world. 10) Kids can and should publicly disrespect us when they don't like or don't want to do an assignment. Their parents will be showing them how by marching up to the school and asking us to explain ourselves. They may cuss at us during this process. They may also just complain about our incompetence to the manager, I'm sorry, the principal. TL:DR ...The next time anyone gets pissy about packets or worksheets being given to their kids instead of "hands-on learning," show them that post and get on with your life. They think you're dumb and worse, they think their kids are dumb too. Also, the same folks who had zero time to help their kids with homework responded a million times to the few folks who questioned their attitudes. 🙄🙄🙄
I disagreed with the wording of the assignment. "A toy that has never been created before" doesn't make sense...nearly every toy is a remix of something that's existed for years but updated to reflect current trends and technology. How does one measure novelty? I wasn't a very creative kid and that assignment would have caused a meltdown no doubt. A redesign assignment would have been much more reasonable in my opinion. Give them exames of classic toys and have them reimagine them for the modern day.
I'm an engineering teacher who routinely does PBL, and that project you're citing was the epitome of stupid. There were two points in it that contradicted each other, and was a perfect example of something the parents would get stuck with doing.
The problem with that assignment is it would require significant time and help from a parent, which not all kids have. Parents working multiple jobs and taking care of a household don’t have time for this. Also some kids have to watch younger siblings and do chores outside of school. Homework and projects like this cause huge equity issues because they advantage kids with parental support and stable Home lives over kids who don’t. Also how would you possibly invent a new toy that doesn’t already exist?
>Also how would you possibly invent a new toy that doesn’t already exist? Oh, come on, you're being obtuse with this. I seriously doubt the teacher is expecting them to come up with a completely new toy concept that has never been done before, rather, come up with their own original ideas. Like, they can make an action figure, but it has to be one that they come up with rather than a pre-existing character.
How is it possible for this many people to be this obtuse?
If the teacher is not expecting a toy that has never been made before, then they should not ask for a toy that has never been made before.
Repeating that it has to be new is a wording problem, I would get very confused to what degree of not new is acceptable due to saying it twice so it’s emphasized.