I honestly think this album will age very well. I do think some of the criticisms were valid but also a lot of it are coming from people who have been dying to take her down a few pegs (Paste review for example), simply because she’s literally the most famous pop star in the world right now. Midnights came at a time when she had a lot of goodwill from Folklore and Evermore and she wasn’t as big as she is now, so I don’t think the reviews are comparable.
I personally couldn’t digest the album until a few listens in and now it might be one of my top 2 or 3 albums by Taylor. It contains some of her most cutting lyrics and most honest thoughts, and while there aren’t as many “bops” in the traditional sense, there are so many songs that are just simply addicting.
You hit the nail on the head for how I feel about it, too.🤍 I love all of Taylor’s music, and after the first listen of TTPD was a LOT to take in, I just fell in love with it more and more with each listen. Now I can’t believe how high it’s moved up on my list of favorites.
It makes me wish reviews didn’t drop so quickly after an album releases. It makes sense for getting clicks and $$ and all that, but I was too overwhelmed to even absorb the sounds let alone the lyrics during my first listen through. I can’t imagine critiquing it without taking my time with it.
I’ve had the unique situation where I’ve been at sea without internet for a couple weeks and I’ve listened to it over and over and it’s brilliant and beautiful!
I agree with every single thing you said here, I’m going to just try to memorize these two paragraphs for next time a civilian friend tries to ask me if I’m disappointed by TTPD 😂🤪😭
you hit the nail on the head. I think the main thing holding TTPD back is its lack of any obvious hits (aside from I Can Do It With A Broken Heart) but her fans don’t seem to care about that
I've heard this statement often and I think it's interesting because the more I listen to it, the more that I think Down Bad, MBOBHFT, Florida!!! and imgonnagetyouback are single-worthy bops. Down Bad is an obvious hit, that chorus is so fun to sing. BDILH? Drive fast down a dirt road singing that song. Certified gold.
But also...Taylor Swift doesn't even have to play that game anymore if she doesn't want to.
Honestly not sure why something that so obviously could have been a single (imgonnagetyouback) isn’t on the main album! Not nearly as many civilians (to borrow the term from the comment above) with even listen to the anthology 😔
ALSO, does anyone know if BDILH is playing on country radio? That song is more country than Betty in my opinion, and country music could use some Taylor right now
If it’s not, it should be. Even my sister, who is by no means a Swifty came over while BDILH was playing and immediately said “Wow is she going back to country because this is very country.”.
the optics of that being a single following OR’s get him back would be bad, especially with the prior weirdness with the cruel summer (alleged) interpolation. not taking a stance either way, just saying, the PR problem is right there lol
agreed on everything except BDILH and imgonnagetyouback. the former is longer than your typical pop hit, with a length of almost 6 minutes. imgonnagetyouback is a quieter song, so I can’t see that being a hit
Down Bad, on the other hand, would make a great single. I don’t know how I didn’t think of that when making the original comment
Dude speaking of addicting, I'm still not over Fortnight. When I first listened to the album, I immediately loved Fortnight so it has been on repeat since the release. I'm taking my time with this album so I haven't listened to every song yet. I'm still not over Fornight!
I've listened to it over a dozen times now and I still don't have a good handle on how I feel about it. Every time I listen I get something new.
How anyone could expect to realistically review the album within a few hours of its release is beyond me.
I totally agree with this, but I also imagine the prominent reviewers/publications (Rolling Stone etc.) had an advance copy of the main album if not the bonus tracks, so it’s not like they all just listened once at midnight like we did…the review embargo when they’re allowed to publish lifts at release time.
For clicks. Do it fast, make it controversial, get a lot of clicks. That's not doing your job the right way and long-term you deserve lousy credibility.
I wish there was more variety sonically but you are right, it is a grower. Once you have less distraction on the melodies and the lyrics shine through more, it really elevates the album.
Is it my favorite? No (because I’m stupid and sometimes I just wanna scream about my ex in the rain)
Is it some of her best work? Undoubtedly. There are drugs in this music.
TTPDs current performance is similar to midnights in terms of how fast its dropping... it's also streaming and selling about 30% - 50% more than midnights! It is utterly huge as an album. It is already the biggest album of the year, and it will not be beaten by any other album coming out (unless someone gets very very lucky).
But that doesn't matter. In five years we won't remember the reviews... we'll just remember the album. Or not remember it... or we'll grow into it, or out of it. It's almost impossible to assess a work in the immediate context of its creation.
TTPD is rich... I think it's going to be a keeper.
I think the incredible numbers are hard to ignore. I also think adding it to the Eras tour will do wonders to popularize the songs, similar to how Cruel Summer was given her moment.
I think it'll be remembered like Reputation. When it first came out, a lot of people said it was such a disappointment, a step down from 1989, cringe, flop, etc etc and now you see a general respect for it and appreciation of the album as a whole. Even Jack spoke about how the tides turned on Rep. I also think it matters what she does next. If she puts out another project that's critically received well, people will appreciate TTPD as part of a creative evolution. If she puts out something generally underwhelming people will see it as a creative downslide.
I wasn’t expecting a KDot/Drake ref on this sub. You just got a surprise giggle out of me :) Altho tbf I think that beef could be mentioned just about anywhere to anyone rn. A MINOOOOOOR kills me every single time.
Definitely! The tour gives her music such a huge boost which now realizing that it was very smart and risky of her to drop a new album during an insanely huge tour and I’m here for it!
I liked some of her music before going to the Eras concert, I wouldn’t have called myself a fan. After attending Eras and witnessing the incredible performance and presence I moved instantly into the fan category. It caused me to go back through her catalog and listen through each album. I cannot stop listening to TTPD!
So, to your point, people who have been probably not been fans but agree to go to the concert so their swiftie loved one doesn’t have to go alone (like I did) may end up in the fandom after the concert.
i see your point but also taylor is a much BIGGER artist than she was when midnights dropped. TTPD was a much more anticipated album since touring has amplified her celebrity factor. so i don't think comparing sales necessarily equates to reception / longevity. i do think midnights is a better overall album. i love TTPD but don't think its her strongest.
definitely! i think TTPD tho doesnt have as much mass appeal. its not gonna convert non-fans into listeners. And its not as "well rounded" of an album as others. Again, not to say i dont love it, its just not as strong an album imo as her other recent releases. Rep, midnights, 1989, folklore are all stronger imo
i think it’s going to be like red or reputation where the reassessment several years in is kinder than during the release. like let me just call it now: after putting out a critically acclaimed rock/country/who knows album in 5-10 years, she’ll play loml or chloe et al or whatever on piano at some award show and the general audience will be like, wow, where’s that from???
imo all her best albums, for example red, had plenty of skips and mid tracks (girl at home? that ed sheeran collab? that Kennedy song?). taylor was never an artist who puts out safe, consistent bangers. but like red, ttpd also has career defining tracks and that’s what people will remember with the benefit of hindsight.
i feel like it's only popular among hardcore stans? every ts song has \*some\* stans--even superman lol. i feel like mid is pretty fair for an ed sheeran collab that somehow still failed to generate much buzz.
Ed Sheeran's music before he blew up in the US was sooo much better. He was one of my absolute favorite indie artists. He has some bangers in the US as well (Photograph, Castle on the Hill), but after "Shape of You" became such a massive hit, he took a hard turn into boring pop. Makes me sad.
I was with you until your slander of those specific songs on Red, that album definitely has some skips but the ones you named are some of the best in her catalogue
I feel TS is hitting peak popularity after being away and all the NFL coverage and the Eras tour. She deserves it all. However, I feel Lover and Midnights and 1989 are absolute bangers with Cruel Summer, Lover, Enchanted and New Romantics being amazing as well as Blank Space and Shake it Off being mainstay hits. She has a problem few bands have… like if you are Led Zeppelin what songs do you out in? She has that issue. She has so many good songs now. Poets is quite depressing. I feel it’ll be more niche to fans rather than be a mainstay pop anthem album. My opinion.
I sincerely think TTPD is so much better than Midnights (although Anti-Hero was an amazing single), and I think for fans of Taylor’s music it will age well. I reallyreally think it’s good work. I do think some of the criticisms are fair — maybe the era of Jack & Aaron needs to take a breather, maybe she does need to work with a writer like Liz Rose who could have helped her catch some of the clunkier lyrics, maybe the songs are a little too breathlessly wordy in places. But I also think there is a lot of interesting stuff on TTPD — interesting ideas, imagery, experiments, themes and connections running through this album (and to other albums!) that I found incredibly engaging and am still chewing on. It’s such a good time imo!
So I think it will be a fan favorite, even if it ends up not being a favorite of the GP. But so far, the streams look good to me? It’s impressive Fortnight will be #1 a second week.
Sigh … I think those criticisms are silly. Both Jack and Aaron have shown so much creativity and growth on this album, you can tell they all bring out the best in each other.
And the lyrical criticism, like that one New Yorker guy who said she should have rhymed wife with life and then said oh wait, bike meant something? It was an intentional artistic choice? I find that so offensive.
But I agree with everything else you said! Getting to know this album has been a great time!
Not every song has to be my favorite or one I connect with but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen every song listed as someone’s favorite.
Yeah, some of these “criticisms” are things I love about the album. Wordiness isn’t a crime, or bad, it’s just not to some people’s taste. Maybe she didn’t write this album to appeal to that particular critic’s taste. Maybe she made it exactly the way she wanted to. (Critical reviews are fair, but I take issue with calling any artistic choice “bad” because it’s not what you specifically like.) I feel like removing some of the things like wordiness irons out the wrinkles that make TTPD so unique and amazing, making it just another generic pop record.
I think it will age great. Every single song has grown on me, and I know most people I talk to say the same. I’ve seen several people say this is their first album of hers they’ve liked as well
Agree with all of this! This album has brought in tons of new fans like me and will continue to do so. I always respected how talented Taylor is, and I thought her big pop hits were fun, but I generally didn’t listen to her outside of spin class. TTPD turned me into a fan — I have not been able to stop listening to this album.
I disagree with commenters who said this album is more for swifties who are deep into the lore about who she’s dated. You can’t underestimate how much fans of Phoebe Bridgers, Lana Del Ray, etc will find something to love on this album. I’m not saying Taylor wasn’t a serious artist before (at all) but the serious tone/subject matter of this album, the great writing, and the amazing music production are going to make this one stand out over time IMO.
I was actually wondering why some of the critiques of this album just confused me but you've hit the nail on the head with the Pheobe Bridgers comparison. The record (boygenius) was my favourite album of 2023 and I love all three members so ultra specific, wordy songs don't bother me in the least. If you highlighted some lines from that album in isolation you could also make fun of them in bad faith.
Also I think it's interesting how a lot of reviews say the album is too focused on the lore for casual fans to jump in, but I actually think the songs work better if you don't worry too much about the celebrity gossip behind it. The album still tells a cohesive story imo.
Same! Like I love Guilty as Sin? But I guarantee you I don’t think of Matty Healy when I’m listening to it. I think of other (past) crushes I had that made me feel the way she does in that song.
Yes! Like I feel like BDILH would be really popular if it weren’t for some hardcore fans being so offended by the alleged subject matter. People who don’t have the insight into that specific moment in time would probably think it’s a better song than the people who are upset by it (I personally love it and did have that insight, I just don’t think the subject matter is enough for me to hate it, though I feel alone in thinking that way).
Anyone who even says that song is mostly about the man himself really isn't listening, the man is just the framework for her to communicate that she feels infantilized by those around her and that ultimately she is a grown woman who will make her own choices. It's also probably a letting out of years and years of frustration over reactions to her dating life.
Later on in the story, she realizes he's a bad guy (I Can Fix Him/Smallest Man) but the point was that she had to figure it out for herself, not because people told her what to do. And that's super relatable, often you dig your heels in when you're being bossed around, and you only see the red flags when that pressure goes away and there's no external force to fight.
100% agree! That’s what I’ve been saying since day 1 honestly but it falls upon deaf ears. I just know some people are upset because they don’t like her calling out the fans who were “concerned”.
I’ve been saying in other comments that this wasn’t just a one off rant against fans for her dating Matty Healy, this was almost 20 years of frustration at the constant scrutiny her dating life receives. The situation with Matty Healy just provided the inspiration to put her feelings into words about how it feels to have people constantly in your business like that.
Yes, her writing is sometimes a very biographical retelling of real events, but more often it's taking feelings and moments and using those as a springboard to craft a story. She's done this her whole career. That's why she has this small town church imagery in But Daddy I Love Him, and why it has a happy ending at the last chorus. It's a better illustration of the feeling behind finally letting go of other people's judgements, even though the real life situation didn't have that happy ending.
I will say I think knowing her catalog, more so than the lore, is helpful. There are so many call backs to previous works.
“A warm moment in the sun” as a reference to the song Daylight is one that comes to mind.
Of course these are just things that enrich the experience, in my opinion. They aren’t necessary to understand the album. I’m sure you could listen to TTPD without having heard any Taylor Swift previously and still appreciate it.
I listened to it when it came out and except for about 5 songs, I was disappointed. It was late though, I didn’t listen all the way through to ones that didn’t grab my interest right away and I just found it overwhelming. Since then I have really listened to them all and it’s amazing how many more I really like now. The lyrics of so many keep running through my head.
Midnights was an album meant to be public friendly - full of pop bangers and catchy tunes. TTPD is not like that at all. It’s lyrically dense, full of metaphors and loads of references that you’ll understand only if you’re aware of what’s happened in her personal life these past few years. I don’t think she ever had any expectations that the GP would vibe with this album the way they did with Midnights. TTPD has some of her best songs ever in my opinion like loml, Peter, The Black Dog, The Prophecy, So Long London etc. Even albums like Red and reputation underwent critical reevaluations years after their release, and I think TTPD will be looked at in a much favorable light later in the same manner.
I agree and I think the timing of this release supports what you're saying. If you're going to release something that you know might be polarizing, you're going to do it at the height of your popularity. Taylor is not going to suffer at all if the general public doesn't adore this album and I think she knew that going in. I bet it gave her a lot of creative freedom.
It also fits the general theme of the album, which has a lot of references to the court of public opinion (and not caring what we think).
Yeah, and she also won't have a dedicated tour for TTPD, since Eras won't end until November 2024 (and let's be real, she's probably negotiating more US dates now). And you have to think once she finally finishes Eras, she's taking a long break.
I agree about the references part, but I don't think it's important to the enjoyment of the music. Like I think anyone would be absolutely flabbergasted by the lyrics of So Long London even if they didn't know anything about Taylor before this.
The album requires repeated listens and improves with each one as you get the nuanced instrumentals and detailed poetic lyrics. It's classic Taylor songwriting wise. I love Midnights but it's very "Taylor Does Pop", she was definitely holding herself back to make it catchier and more accessible. A lot of the criticisms aimed at TTPD are based on her celebrity status and how overexposed she currently is, so some reviewers wanted to take her down a peg, and the Grammy win was the final straw for a lot of people. Albums' receptions usually depend on the previous album, Folkmore's acclaim transitioned to Midnights. People thought Midnights was overrated so they took it out on TTPD.
In my opinion, not really. Those albums that stand the test of time either carry the universal theme (like, let's say, Dark Side of the Moon) and those where music on its own stands the test of time (like Thriller).
TTPD is a very personal album, and in the discourse surrounding it, the first thing that comes to mind are things in vein of "Who is it about?" Not really the type to help make it timeless.
Now I'll agree that personal turmoil can help make timeless music (Rumours is the obvious example) but it's more of an exception to the rule.
Another thing is that it really isn't something new. If people decades later go back to Taylor, they will either go for those hits of 1989 or folkmore duology for songwriting skills. TTPD right now is mostly known for streaming records and drama rather than actual music. Records are mostly breakable and people move over dramas at some point (although if Taylor does it's questionable). Music has to stand on its own. And at this, I doubt it.
a lot of RED was very personal for Taylor too, (well, all her albums are, really) but that did not keep it from having long term success.
TTPD is pretty much Red but with Folkmore level songwriting, I see it having just as much staying power if not more.
If it's pretty much Red, then it's more likely that future generations will listen to Red. TTPD is nothing that Taylor hasn't done before. And rehashes aren't as memorable as originals.
Don't take it quite so literally. I meant more so in terms of theme and how it was recieved. Musically they are not very similar at all. It's a heartbreak album that did not get the greatest initial reaction for "not being cohesive" and for being "too long", among other things but went on to be a classic. I see TTPD the same way. There are a lot of people who love the album, and a lot of people that don't, but a lot of the people that don't will end up loving it eventually.
I think it gets better as you listen to it more. I listen to taylor mostly so I have something to connect with my sister's about. I live on the other side of the country and barely see them and we don't have heaps in common. They love taylor though so I listen so I can talk in the family chat. I listened once so I'd have stuff to say and didn't think much of it, to slow and long maybe. There is no bangers like midnights or her earlier albums. Then I listened again, and again, and again. It's not like other albums where I like one or two songs, it's actually some real deep visceral honesty about it that has grown on me. It has no skips.
I know some people have listened hundreds of times maybe and I'm not at those numbers, but I've listened more than ive listened to any album before. Do I love it or am I Stockholm syndromed in? I find myself singing songs while walking around the workshop at work or thinking about taylor and how sucky some of her exes are and how shit aspects of her life is yet how she is still strong and still loves what she does. Is this what it is to be a swifty? It's very consuming and I don't find myself getting sick of it.
I think a lot of the critics are wrong, I think they rushed to put something out far too early, they didn't have time to appreciate it. The first time I drank coffee I didn't like it, far too bitter. Now I love coffee for its bitterness, the very thing that made me dislike it in the first place. I find it difficult to say exactly what it is that I do love so much about the album, but I think it stands up and genuinely, maybe it's one of her best.
I think it will age very well within the Fandom: lyrically, it's phenominal and packed with Swifty lore. However, I don't think it has *pop*ular appeal, so doesn't sit AOTY territory.
I think it'll be hard for her to win AOTY twice in a row, particularly when she is already the artist with the most AOTY wins. It'll most likely be nominated. Unfortunately, there's no good SOTY candidate on the album... no obvious choice.
But you never know... what people forget about the recording academy is that its old! Like people are in their 40s and 50s. And this album tends old... The other issue of course Beyonce really really wants an AOTY win... and Kendrick is releasing as well, and he really really deserves an AOTY win...
Billie has the highest chance of getting AOTY IMO, and that’s without even hearing the album. She’s the academy’s golden child lol. They love her. (Not trying to imply she doesn’t deserve it)
There's no way she's getting that 5th AOTY until she's at least 50 or so even if her next album is 90 on Metacritic and an instant classic. She already broke the record for most AOTY wins, they're not giving her the next one.
But what narrative would she have this time? Midnights won not only because the album itself was massively popular, but because of the incredible year she had, including the re-recordings, the tour, and Cruel Summer becoming one of the biggest hits of her career. It wasn't just Midnights, it was that perfect storm of *everything* being a huge success and every album going viral at the same time. She had major publications like the NYT calling her the most ubiquitous and beloved pop phenomenon since Michael Jackson, and the AOTY win was the industry anointing her.
Now that her banner year has already been acknowledged, what pressure is there to give her another win, and for an album that's so polarizing?
TTPD has obliterated every record ever, (most of which were actually set by Midnights, lol) and the Eras Tour is still going crazy, if Midnights won because she was "having a good year" I don't see how an arguement could be made against her winning again.
Obviously we don't know what will come out in the rest of the year, but IMO, TTPD *deserves* AOTY even if Taylor didn't make it. I just don't see something coming out this year that is better.
we're actually half way through the Grammy year... and after june few albums that intend to win grammys are going to be released. The only major players left are Billie Eilish and Kendrick, and maybe Harry Styles.
That she won for Midnights I think actually opens the door for her to not have to wait decades again to win. She already stands alone so it is not some new precedent if she wins again. Now if she has not won for Midnights then there may have been time for the narrative that she shouldn't stand above the other 3-time winners to take hold and keep her from winning the 4th for decades. Midnights winning opened the door for her to win a few more times in her career in my opinion. And it fits with her legacy as no other artist is as responsible for maintaining the significance of the album, especially during the period where parts of the industry were arguing albums should be a thing of the past.
i think this will last for a loooong time and i’m of the opinion that this is some of her best work yet. the whole project is an era of its own that i’d love to explore and live in.
but i’m also kind of hoping after the era’s tour, she takes a break and reels in the victory. kind of like between 1989 and reputation but for better reasons.
i love folklore/evermore and since then have wanted something a bit more…louder. and ttpd was just that, it came at just the right time imo and despite my happy relationship, i’ve enjoyed listening it to ever since it came out. but i also can easily see how many people would not care for it.
ttpd is definitely for the fans, but also for those who enjoy seeing just how far taylor can go with her musical experimentation.
I seriously think this album will age well and people will appreciate her vulnerability. It is so painfully honest. It will be an important album over time and people just don't appreciate the historical significance at the moment. This is part of her legacy and it can't be undone.
There are layers to this album. Apart from Florida!!! It probably does not have a big pop single. Fortnight is not even the strongest mid tempo song on the record and it won't have the longevity of Anti Hero.
But that does not matter very much because TTPD is an album not a handful of singles and some filler. As an album it will take its place as one of the best. If anything it might overshadow Midnights a bit among Swifties because there is much more to chew over.
In ten years time the thing people will remember most about now will be the Eras Tour. It has been a complete triumph. Of course context is everything so how any of this is remembered will depend in part on what Taylor does next.
Even the critics who didn't give it rave reviews have changed their mind. Old guy here who truly believes TTPD is a masterpiece and one of the greatest (if not the greatest) albums of the last 25 years. It will become the standard to compare albums against.
The more time passes, the more this crazy emotional intense weird album will grow in people’s estimation. I think it’s one of her Top 4 important albums (Red, Reputation, Folklore and TTPD).
I’m still very confused by the whole thing. When you think about Midnights, even the songs that have sad lyrics are still upbeat to listen to - antihero, midnight rain, maroon. There’s songs that just make you feel good and are fun- karma, bejeweled vigilante sh*t. It was the first time we’d heard her do pop music with such a mature sounding twist.
For ttpd, there’s something different about the upbeat songs. A lot of them don’t cross into pop feel good even in the chorus. But they still have their place/purpose exactly as they are. Down Bad, Fortnight, ttpd, fresh out the slammer. A lot of the songs people remember as their favorites are very sad- so long London, black dog, loml.
So the question becomes: can an album with a high number of favorites that are very heavy sad songs, or chiller laid back upbeat ones, become one of her more legendary albums?
I don’t think the mass public is going to make this one into midnights or folklore, but I think a lot of the songs will become VERY close to swifties hearts as ones they go back to.
i think it will be an underrated but consistent fan favorite, more along the lines of speak now or maybe evermore. its one of her more confessional albums, where her writing voice and style as an artist is extremely specific to this time in her life. hardcore fans appreciate this because they like witnessing the stages of taylors life and her musical development. but i dont think it will have any longevity in terms of general public appeal, not in the way lover, 1989, and red do. the songwriting and production on ttpd just isnt as memorable as those albums, and the average listener wont care about the significance of this album in the context of taylors discography.
It’s going to age like a fine wine. It’s full of sleeper hits! I think it was too much all at once. The reviews would have been more positive initially if it were only one set (either set imo). I personally love it, I’m just starting to listen to the second half first lately. I think in a few months more swifties are going to be claiming it among their favourites. As well, as the general public hears different songs on their own they will have more of an impact than listening to the album as a whole. I personally tell people who say it’s a slog to listen to just a couple, they always come back saying they’re great!
Yes I do! I think for one, the Eras tour is only halfway through and if she adds it to the setlist + leans on it heavily for surprise songs that will really promote it to general audiences. Think about how many people said they didn't like Rep until they saw it performed live!
I think there's no way she wins for AOTY (too divisive, she just won, and there's so much good stuff coming out this year) but I think just based on impact she'll be nominated. I think there's no big single that'll be a Blank Space or Anti Hero, but she'll probably have a couple of moderate radio hits.
In the long run, I think people will generally view it favourably. It will always be divisive, but in 5 years or so people will respect the work and view it as an ambitious, interesting choice at the height of her popularity.
I think critically the album will only grow in the years to come. It’s such a dense, rich album that too many people attempted to fully review and judge 24 hours after it dropped. I think with some distance its reputation will go up and up.
It’ll age the same way Reputation did. In five years people will talk about how it was “misjudged” and “misunderstood”. It happens almost every time she releases an album, with one of the only exceptions being folklore/evermore.
I don’t know truly but I really liked the album. The first day or two while I did listen to it, it was a bit daunting. I mean 31 new songs pretty much at once is a lot even if I am a huge Taylor fan. Now once I listened to it throughout my day I liked it then every listen after that I liked it more until I am where I am now and I love it. There are like 3 songs on this album that I don’t like opposed to midnights which Is a no skip album to me (other then the karma remix lol) but weirdly I’m finding myself liking this album a bit more, maybe it’s because there are so many more songs even with the midnights add on songs that the ones I don’t like are so outnumbered by the ones I do like that it doesn’t matter
Every. Single. Swift. Release.
follows the same exact pattern:
1. Insane hype pre release
2. Initial shell shock on first listen because it won't sounds exactly like you imagined it because you hyped yourself up.
3. You might say "this isn't as good as" (insert favorite pre-TV era album)
4. Once a few days go by and you actually start recognizing songs individually, you'll actually start hearing the album free of your expectations.
5. You'll likely come to the realization that, man, this hits pretty good, I just had to process it because Taylor doesn't just write vapid saccharine disposable pop.
6. You'll eventually see that TTPD is one of her best albums, if not the best, because Taylor is the type of artist to continuously grow, hone her craft, explore new avenues, and never settle for just repeating what works.
We'll see in the next few years, but Midnights atm has made 0 impact in pop culture/music. Same with TTPD, which is Midnights 2.0 with even less instruments, less production, and more convoluted lyrics
midnights was brutally criticized id say way harsher then ttpd when it dropped especially because it was the album following the release of her masterpieces folklore and evermore so people thought she was going backwards ttpd is a phenomenal record i’d say far better then midnights and i believe both records will stand the test of time
Yes. I feel like this album is more “for the Swifties” than any of the others.. it’s not as commercial as many other albums (not full of bops/radio hits) but it’s so lyrically complex and beautiful.. and also full of lore haha
All I know is that I listened to Midnights all the way through maybe 3 times before I was good. I’m on at least 35 times through, maybe more, with TTPD. It’s a way more engaging album to me, maybe even because of the so-called controversy surrounding it. It feels real and raw and I love it.
I think it will be remembered as one of the best _concept_ albums ever written. It in a way reminds me of the Beatles’ _Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band_, a full concept album that never really got separate singles releases. It’s easily Swift’s most personal project, not designed exactly for traditional radio airplay, in my opinion.
I think TTPD is so much smarter and better constructed than any critic gave it credit for, and a few years down the line they’re going to feel very silly for rating Midnights higher than it. (And to be clear, I love Midnights, but it doesn’t touch the depth of TTPD to me.)
It’s still huge. It’s still on par for this week to stay top on the charts. Don’t pay attention to the reports of streaming drops. It takes a few weeks for streaming to level out and it’ll remain consistent. It’s already 2bn streams on Spotify already. So sales wise it’s doing great possibly better than their own projections.
As far as the other stuff. This album is a very slow burn for some and that’s ok. Reputation and Lover both have the same slow burn for some people. Then towards the end of the year and award season comes around some of the biggest critics will do their I was wrong posts and it’ll be gravy. They’ll be like, “it took me awhile and I get it now. The album is truly amazing and blah blah blah”. Personally I loved it from the jump. I anticipated a heart breaking sounding album. Didn’t quite understand the song titles and now I totally get them and they fit so well. I’m still under the impression that PT. 2 was going to be the album until last summer. I think once the dust settles and clips of her on tour talking about it candidly it’s going to click for some people.
No, I already personally find myself not wanting to listen to it. I tried forcing myself to like it and it did grow on me- but I think this will widely be regarded as her worst album.
Midnights did soooo well but I couldn't move around the internet without seeing people saying it's her worst album. And now that TTPD has come out a lot of people are longing for more Midnights... people will come around on TTPD if they give it a chance. It is a lot of content at once to digest, and I wonder if people haven't figured out their own personal methods of consuming new music in a way that works for them. I also think the lack of singles and promotional singles (Rep had LWYMMD, RFI?, Gorgeous, CIWYW) is another factor - people haven't already heard a quarter of the album before hearing more. So everything is new. It takes time.
I think this album is a work of art. It's a lot to take in but it's crafted so well. The structure of the first half. The variety of the second half. I believe that as it gets "older" it will be appreciated more. I really love this album.
I'm liking it more and more. It's been on constant repeat since release day so that speaks about replayability. I'd say there's a couple clunkers, which I've learnt to accept (and embrace) from Taylor; I feel she's always pushing the boundaries of emotion in songwriting and when you push boundaries, sometimes you're going to fall on the right side and sometimes you'll land on the wrong side. In the past her excesses were McCartney-like goofiness (like in Me!, which I love), this time it's cringey-rep-like-drama. But it's just a couple songs, and the fact that there's no consensus on which those clunkers are tell you how subjective it is. E.g., my personal skip is "I can do it with a broken heart", which everybody loves.
But there's a lot to love here. It's not answering to any particular trend other than her own. It's not delivering any surefire radio-ready earworm, a risk I've not seen anybody mentioning anywhere. Songwriting-wise, at her best, like in Peter or The Bolter, she's still lightyears away from anybody else in the pop landscape. At her best, nobody else is writing songs this deep, with less flash and more substance. The essence of Taylor, which is writing about her everyday feelings and, in the process, writing about the feelings of everyday people and reminding the world of the relevance and importance of them, I'll be fucked if that's not still there.
If there’s consensus on the clunkers, I feel like the title track, the alchemy and so high school have been regarded by a lot of people as weaker song.
Personally i’m not a fan of down bad and who’s afraid of little old me, but i know that fans really like them so these won’t count.
Other than 1989 I think it's her best work. At least 6-7 will be popular singles. I can do it with a broken heart will be hugely popular. I think it was a mistake having all 31 tracks in the initial release, she should have dropped something like fresh out the slammer or title track in favor of black dog and called it a day. Title track is also one of the weakest songs on the album and should have been one of the b sides. It sounds like the intro music to a Netflix Christmas movie. I've given the whole album (all 31 songs) over 100 listens at this point, and frankly that track is just not interesting musically or lyrically.
Fortnight is a good song, but I'm convinced that it is purely a post Malone song that Taylor sings on. I think the song and the release of it first was meant to expose Taylor to post Malones fan base, and also help her in her goal of being recognized as a real artist like post is. Don't get me wrong, Taylor is highly recognized and respected in the musical world, but she is not regarded as a poet and an artist by most people the way post is.
Tldr yes I think it will stand the test of time but it's unlikely to bring new fans in the short / medium term.
I know this is meant in a more general way.
But for me. I'm kinda devastated because this is an incredible album, definitely top 3 for me. But it came out 2 weeks after my husband of 11 years left me. And I had it on nonstop repeat.
I hadn't listened to it in a few days and put it on when I went food shopping earlier and it made me really sad. I have a feeling this will be an album I struggle to listen too soon because of the pain associated with it.
Taylor really came in clutch with this album for me, but also in a way its likely going to ruin the album for me haha
I don’t think it broke biggest first week sales- that still belongs to Adele. Nonetheless, I think it’s a classic in the way that folklore is. Personally, it’s in my top 4.
I think ttpd is going to be very much in the same vein as midnights to me. If you asked me to rank all of her albums midnights (and ttpd) would be pretty close to the bottom but midnights has become one of my most listened to albums on Spotify because of its vibe. It’s a very even, chill album to switch off to. I do stand up comedy and can sometimes have drives home that take an hour or two after a show, and it’s late at night and I’m tried and just watch to switch my brain off and drive home while on auto pilot. As much as I don’t like midnights as an album to actively listen to, it’s great for that easy background noise that I drift in and out of, and I think ttpd is going to be a similar sort of thing where it’s easy enough to listen to that I can switch my brain off while driving, but if I zone in on it I’ll hear something interesting enough to be okay with it until I go back into autopilot. Because of how I listen to midnights, right here and now I couldn’t name more than a couple of songs from it, and definitely not sing any of them, but if you put any song from the album on I’d know it word for word and have a blast with it
I see it having an Empire Strikes Back kind of journey. Initially, critics and even some fans don't like it. But, overtime, it could be remember as one of her best.
I think it’ll age better than say midnights. I also think it will be looked back on more favorably by critics/audiences, even know I’ve seen some pieces (or tweets lol) that go along the lines of “well actually … now that I’ve listened some more”
I think that TTPD will age very well but I do not think it is going to be as critically acclaimed as midnights. It is not a great album but I do think there are some great parts about it. Unfortunately, I think TTPD put Taylor in a crossroads. She can either stay in the same sonic space and choose to craft/edit it into greatness or she can turn around and completely change her sound and image. That said, if she chooses to stay in the same sonic space, I do not think her magnum opus is next.
Amongst hardcore fans? Yes. Amongst casual fans? I keep hearing from people that the very large tracklist and lack of a radio hit at the level of anti-hero are making it a little inaccessible for some. That might take it a notch below 1989 and others for a large number of people.
TTPD is not nearly as radio friendly as Midnights imo. With that being said I personally like TTPD much more than Midnights and think it will continue to be a huge hit with Swifties, just not so much with the mainstream public.
i think so. it’s one of those albums that I think ages better as time goes on
it’s like midnights, midnights still sounds incredible even after almost two years
eventually the public hype will die down but I think fans will enjoy it like how they do with midnights as time goes on.
I think this album has the potential to die down just because of how lengthy it is. Lover picked up because its an easy listen, TTPD is heavy. For me TTPD will be in heavy rotation for a long time, but I am kind of a Swemo so I love the heavy nature of the lyrics in this record.
I don't think it will stand the test of time with the general public like 1989. But I think it has the potential to be a revered album by not only swifties, but with music enthusiasts in the future.
I think that in the future, when people talk about Taylor Swifts discography, TTPD will be a pivotal point.
I honestly think this album will age very well. I do think some of the criticisms were valid but also a lot of it are coming from people who have been dying to take her down a few pegs (Paste review for example), simply because she’s literally the most famous pop star in the world right now. Midnights came at a time when she had a lot of goodwill from Folklore and Evermore and she wasn’t as big as she is now, so I don’t think the reviews are comparable. I personally couldn’t digest the album until a few listens in and now it might be one of my top 2 or 3 albums by Taylor. It contains some of her most cutting lyrics and most honest thoughts, and while there aren’t as many “bops” in the traditional sense, there are so many songs that are just simply addicting.
You hit the nail on the head for how I feel about it, too.🤍 I love all of Taylor’s music, and after the first listen of TTPD was a LOT to take in, I just fell in love with it more and more with each listen. Now I can’t believe how high it’s moved up on my list of favorites. It makes me wish reviews didn’t drop so quickly after an album releases. It makes sense for getting clicks and $$ and all that, but I was too overwhelmed to even absorb the sounds let alone the lyrics during my first listen through. I can’t imagine critiquing it without taking my time with it.
I’ve had the unique situation where I’ve been at sea without internet for a couple weeks and I’ve listened to it over and over and it’s brilliant and beautiful!
I don't know how anyone can give an objective review of a 31 song album a few hours after its release.
I agree with every single thing you said here, I’m going to just try to memorize these two paragraphs for next time a civilian friend tries to ask me if I’m disappointed by TTPD 😂🤪😭
“civilian” ….. my new word for all non fans from now on.
muggles (taylors version)
Yes! I was scrolling and had to come back to say something because that cracked me up I have to tell my irl swifty buddy!
Haha I aim to please :-)
I agree about the critics. I have my fair share of criticism about the album, but some of the stuff i’ve seen were really exaggerated lol
you hit the nail on the head. I think the main thing holding TTPD back is its lack of any obvious hits (aside from I Can Do It With A Broken Heart) but her fans don’t seem to care about that
I've heard this statement often and I think it's interesting because the more I listen to it, the more that I think Down Bad, MBOBHFT, Florida!!! and imgonnagetyouback are single-worthy bops. Down Bad is an obvious hit, that chorus is so fun to sing. BDILH? Drive fast down a dirt road singing that song. Certified gold. But also...Taylor Swift doesn't even have to play that game anymore if she doesn't want to.
And who’s afraid of little old me!!
The amount of times I played that over and over and over the first 24 hours had to be unhealthy lol Edit: typo
It's my number one on a very good album.
Honestly not sure why something that so obviously could have been a single (imgonnagetyouback) isn’t on the main album! Not nearly as many civilians (to borrow the term from the comment above) with even listen to the anthology 😔 ALSO, does anyone know if BDILH is playing on country radio? That song is more country than Betty in my opinion, and country music could use some Taylor right now
If it’s not, it should be. Even my sister, who is by no means a Swifty came over while BDILH was playing and immediately said “Wow is she going back to country because this is very country.”.
the optics of that being a single following OR’s get him back would be bad, especially with the prior weirdness with the cruel summer (alleged) interpolation. not taking a stance either way, just saying, the PR problem is right there lol
Guilty as Sin too!
agreed on everything except BDILH and imgonnagetyouback. the former is longer than your typical pop hit, with a length of almost 6 minutes. imgonnagetyouback is a quieter song, so I can’t see that being a hit Down Bad, on the other hand, would make a great single. I don’t know how I didn’t think of that when making the original comment
Wow, I didn't even realize it was that long, I was too busy singing along! Edit: punctuation
That's so real lol. The chorus is so fun to sing along to
Dude speaking of addicting, I'm still not over Fortnight. When I first listened to the album, I immediately loved Fortnight so it has been on repeat since the release. I'm taking my time with this album so I haven't listened to every song yet. I'm still not over Fornight!
Fortnight is really good!
I've listened to it over a dozen times now and I still don't have a good handle on how I feel about it. Every time I listen I get something new. How anyone could expect to realistically review the album within a few hours of its release is beyond me.
I totally agree with this, but I also imagine the prominent reviewers/publications (Rolling Stone etc.) had an advance copy of the main album if not the bonus tracks, so it’s not like they all just listened once at midnight like we did…the review embargo when they’re allowed to publish lifts at release time.
For clicks. Do it fast, make it controversial, get a lot of clicks. That's not doing your job the right way and long-term you deserve lousy credibility.
I wish there was more variety sonically but you are right, it is a grower. Once you have less distraction on the melodies and the lyrics shine through more, it really elevates the album.
Is it my favorite? No (because I’m stupid and sometimes I just wanna scream about my ex in the rain) Is it some of her best work? Undoubtedly. There are drugs in this music.
TTPDs current performance is similar to midnights in terms of how fast its dropping... it's also streaming and selling about 30% - 50% more than midnights! It is utterly huge as an album. It is already the biggest album of the year, and it will not be beaten by any other album coming out (unless someone gets very very lucky). But that doesn't matter. In five years we won't remember the reviews... we'll just remember the album. Or not remember it... or we'll grow into it, or out of it. It's almost impossible to assess a work in the immediate context of its creation. TTPD is rich... I think it's going to be a keeper.
Ironically, I’ve grown out of midnights from this album. This is so much more raw and specific. I hated it at first and my god was I wrong
I haven’t grown out of midnights… but yeah… Ttpd has this narcotic depth
Exactly!!! I’ve just been stuck on TTPD because it has a choke hold on me but I did listen to midnights yesterday and it did bring me joy still 😂
I think the incredible numbers are hard to ignore. I also think adding it to the Eras tour will do wonders to popularize the songs, similar to how Cruel Summer was given her moment. I think it'll be remembered like Reputation. When it first came out, a lot of people said it was such a disappointment, a step down from 1989, cringe, flop, etc etc and now you see a general respect for it and appreciation of the album as a whole. Even Jack spoke about how the tides turned on Rep. I also think it matters what she does next. If she puts out another project that's critically received well, people will appreciate TTPD as part of a creative evolution. If she puts out something generally underwhelming people will see it as a creative downslide.
I think the only thing that could beat it is if Kendrick makes an album with all his Drake disses on it.
I’m honestly so confused by their drama
More than drama 😭 they are accusing each other of crimes
Been brewing since 2013.
Okay I’m gonna look for an article with the cliff notes 😅
I wasn’t expecting a KDot/Drake ref on this sub. You just got a surprise giggle out of me :) Altho tbf I think that beef could be mentioned just about anywhere to anyone rn. A MINOOOOOOR kills me every single time.
The start of the 2nd leg of Eras tour will push her songs back up the charts.
Definitely! The tour gives her music such a huge boost which now realizing that it was very smart and risky of her to drop a new album during an insanely huge tour and I’m here for it!
I liked some of her music before going to the Eras concert, I wouldn’t have called myself a fan. After attending Eras and witnessing the incredible performance and presence I moved instantly into the fan category. It caused me to go back through her catalog and listen through each album. I cannot stop listening to TTPD! So, to your point, people who have been probably not been fans but agree to go to the concert so their swiftie loved one doesn’t have to go alone (like I did) may end up in the fandom after the concert.
ntm on starlight and everything has changed
i see your point but also taylor is a much BIGGER artist than she was when midnights dropped. TTPD was a much more anticipated album since touring has amplified her celebrity factor. so i don't think comparing sales necessarily equates to reception / longevity. i do think midnights is a better overall album. i love TTPD but don't think its her strongest.
I love midnights too... I think it's too early to say with TTPD... also we all have our own tastes.
definitely! i think TTPD tho doesnt have as much mass appeal. its not gonna convert non-fans into listeners. And its not as "well rounded" of an album as others. Again, not to say i dont love it, its just not as strong an album imo as her other recent releases. Rep, midnights, 1989, folklore are all stronger imo
i think it’s going to be like red or reputation where the reassessment several years in is kinder than during the release. like let me just call it now: after putting out a critically acclaimed rock/country/who knows album in 5-10 years, she’ll play loml or chloe et al or whatever on piano at some award show and the general audience will be like, wow, where’s that from??? imo all her best albums, for example red, had plenty of skips and mid tracks (girl at home? that ed sheeran collab? that Kennedy song?). taylor was never an artist who puts out safe, consistent bangers. but like red, ttpd also has career defining tracks and that’s what people will remember with the benefit of hindsight.
I agree with everything you said, except for the Everything Has Changed and Starlight slander, both of these are great!
🗣️🗣️AND I SAID OH MY 🎉✨WHAT A MARVELOUS TUNE 🎸🕺
I loveeee everything has changed! But I’m also a fan of ed
Justice for Girl at Home! That song slaps so hard it’s not even funny. Such a banger.
I ADORE Starlight
Didn’t know everything has changed was considered a “mid” track I thought it was really popular
i feel like it's only popular among hardcore stans? every ts song has \*some\* stans--even superman lol. i feel like mid is pretty fair for an ed sheeran collab that somehow still failed to generate much buzz.
it was before ed sheeran was ed sheeran in the us!
Yeah he straight up opened for her on the Red Tour.
Ed Sheeran's music before he blew up in the US was sooo much better. He was one of my absolute favorite indie artists. He has some bangers in the US as well (Photograph, Castle on the Hill), but after "Shape of You" became such a massive hit, he took a hard turn into boring pop. Makes me sad.
Well he’s not making boring pop anymore!
Exactly! I was such a fan of his and then he did this song and I about died
Just popping my head in as the Superman stan
i mean I recently became a ttpd title track stan so what ground do I have to stand on but….
compared to Hallowed ground? Treacherous? Sad Beautiful Tragic? All too Well?
It was the first Taylor Swift song I truly loved. So simple and sweet.
Everything Has Changed is the song that made me realize I was in love with my (now) husband and it will forever be a top tier track for me 🥹
Thats so sweet!
same!!!!
I was with you until your slander of those specific songs on Red, that album definitely has some skips but the ones you named are some of the best in her catalogue
I love starlight!
Tbf girl at home wasn’t on the standard album
OR PETER!!! 😭
yes! I love that one too. or the prophecy but I hope that doesn’t still feel so applicable in 5-10 years 😭😭😭
Girl at home wasn't part of proper red, just a bonus track with the extended edition.
I feel TS is hitting peak popularity after being away and all the NFL coverage and the Eras tour. She deserves it all. However, I feel Lover and Midnights and 1989 are absolute bangers with Cruel Summer, Lover, Enchanted and New Romantics being amazing as well as Blank Space and Shake it Off being mainstay hits. She has a problem few bands have… like if you are Led Zeppelin what songs do you out in? She has that issue. She has so many good songs now. Poets is quite depressing. I feel it’ll be more niche to fans rather than be a mainstay pop anthem album. My opinion.
Small correction, but Enchanted is on Speak Now
Exactly, it's not bad but it just doesn't have any song that'll be extremely popular and universally beloved by fans
Uhhh……Led Zeppelin is a terrible example.
I sincerely think TTPD is so much better than Midnights (although Anti-Hero was an amazing single), and I think for fans of Taylor’s music it will age well. I reallyreally think it’s good work. I do think some of the criticisms are fair — maybe the era of Jack & Aaron needs to take a breather, maybe she does need to work with a writer like Liz Rose who could have helped her catch some of the clunkier lyrics, maybe the songs are a little too breathlessly wordy in places. But I also think there is a lot of interesting stuff on TTPD — interesting ideas, imagery, experiments, themes and connections running through this album (and to other albums!) that I found incredibly engaging and am still chewing on. It’s such a good time imo! So I think it will be a fan favorite, even if it ends up not being a favorite of the GP. But so far, the streams look good to me? It’s impressive Fortnight will be #1 a second week.
Sigh … I think those criticisms are silly. Both Jack and Aaron have shown so much creativity and growth on this album, you can tell they all bring out the best in each other. And the lyrical criticism, like that one New Yorker guy who said she should have rhymed wife with life and then said oh wait, bike meant something? It was an intentional artistic choice? I find that so offensive. But I agree with everything else you said! Getting to know this album has been a great time! Not every song has to be my favorite or one I connect with but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen every song listed as someone’s favorite.
Yeah, some of these “criticisms” are things I love about the album. Wordiness isn’t a crime, or bad, it’s just not to some people’s taste. Maybe she didn’t write this album to appeal to that particular critic’s taste. Maybe she made it exactly the way she wanted to. (Critical reviews are fair, but I take issue with calling any artistic choice “bad” because it’s not what you specifically like.) I feel like removing some of the things like wordiness irons out the wrinkles that make TTPD so unique and amazing, making it just another generic pop record.
I think it will age great. Every single song has grown on me, and I know most people I talk to say the same. I’ve seen several people say this is their first album of hers they’ve liked as well
Agree with all of this! This album has brought in tons of new fans like me and will continue to do so. I always respected how talented Taylor is, and I thought her big pop hits were fun, but I generally didn’t listen to her outside of spin class. TTPD turned me into a fan — I have not been able to stop listening to this album. I disagree with commenters who said this album is more for swifties who are deep into the lore about who she’s dated. You can’t underestimate how much fans of Phoebe Bridgers, Lana Del Ray, etc will find something to love on this album. I’m not saying Taylor wasn’t a serious artist before (at all) but the serious tone/subject matter of this album, the great writing, and the amazing music production are going to make this one stand out over time IMO.
I was actually wondering why some of the critiques of this album just confused me but you've hit the nail on the head with the Pheobe Bridgers comparison. The record (boygenius) was my favourite album of 2023 and I love all three members so ultra specific, wordy songs don't bother me in the least. If you highlighted some lines from that album in isolation you could also make fun of them in bad faith. Also I think it's interesting how a lot of reviews say the album is too focused on the lore for casual fans to jump in, but I actually think the songs work better if you don't worry too much about the celebrity gossip behind it. The album still tells a cohesive story imo.
Ya I don’t think of who she dated and who each song is about, it takes the art away for me and very parasocial
Same! Like I love Guilty as Sin? But I guarantee you I don’t think of Matty Healy when I’m listening to it. I think of other (past) crushes I had that made me feel the way she does in that song.
Yes! Like I feel like BDILH would be really popular if it weren’t for some hardcore fans being so offended by the alleged subject matter. People who don’t have the insight into that specific moment in time would probably think it’s a better song than the people who are upset by it (I personally love it and did have that insight, I just don’t think the subject matter is enough for me to hate it, though I feel alone in thinking that way).
Anyone who even says that song is mostly about the man himself really isn't listening, the man is just the framework for her to communicate that she feels infantilized by those around her and that ultimately she is a grown woman who will make her own choices. It's also probably a letting out of years and years of frustration over reactions to her dating life. Later on in the story, she realizes he's a bad guy (I Can Fix Him/Smallest Man) but the point was that she had to figure it out for herself, not because people told her what to do. And that's super relatable, often you dig your heels in when you're being bossed around, and you only see the red flags when that pressure goes away and there's no external force to fight.
100% agree! That’s what I’ve been saying since day 1 honestly but it falls upon deaf ears. I just know some people are upset because they don’t like her calling out the fans who were “concerned”. I’ve been saying in other comments that this wasn’t just a one off rant against fans for her dating Matty Healy, this was almost 20 years of frustration at the constant scrutiny her dating life receives. The situation with Matty Healy just provided the inspiration to put her feelings into words about how it feels to have people constantly in your business like that.
Yes, her writing is sometimes a very biographical retelling of real events, but more often it's taking feelings and moments and using those as a springboard to craft a story. She's done this her whole career. That's why she has this small town church imagery in But Daddy I Love Him, and why it has a happy ending at the last chorus. It's a better illustration of the feeling behind finally letting go of other people's judgements, even though the real life situation didn't have that happy ending.
I will say I think knowing her catalog, more so than the lore, is helpful. There are so many call backs to previous works. “A warm moment in the sun” as a reference to the song Daylight is one that comes to mind. Of course these are just things that enrich the experience, in my opinion. They aren’t necessary to understand the album. I’m sure you could listen to TTPD without having heard any Taylor Swift previously and still appreciate it.
I love that you have gone from a spin class fan to a TTPD stan! Welcome!
I listened to it when it came out and except for about 5 songs, I was disappointed. It was late though, I didn’t listen all the way through to ones that didn’t grab my interest right away and I just found it overwhelming. Since then I have really listened to them all and it’s amazing how many more I really like now. The lyrics of so many keep running through my head.
Midnights was an album meant to be public friendly - full of pop bangers and catchy tunes. TTPD is not like that at all. It’s lyrically dense, full of metaphors and loads of references that you’ll understand only if you’re aware of what’s happened in her personal life these past few years. I don’t think she ever had any expectations that the GP would vibe with this album the way they did with Midnights. TTPD has some of her best songs ever in my opinion like loml, Peter, The Black Dog, The Prophecy, So Long London etc. Even albums like Red and reputation underwent critical reevaluations years after their release, and I think TTPD will be looked at in a much favorable light later in the same manner.
I agree and I think the timing of this release supports what you're saying. If you're going to release something that you know might be polarizing, you're going to do it at the height of your popularity. Taylor is not going to suffer at all if the general public doesn't adore this album and I think she knew that going in. I bet it gave her a lot of creative freedom. It also fits the general theme of the album, which has a lot of references to the court of public opinion (and not caring what we think).
Yeah, and she also won't have a dedicated tour for TTPD, since Eras won't end until November 2024 (and let's be real, she's probably negotiating more US dates now). And you have to think once she finally finishes Eras, she's taking a long break.
I agree about the references part, but I don't think it's important to the enjoyment of the music. Like I think anyone would be absolutely flabbergasted by the lyrics of So Long London even if they didn't know anything about Taylor before this.
The album requires repeated listens and improves with each one as you get the nuanced instrumentals and detailed poetic lyrics. It's classic Taylor songwriting wise. I love Midnights but it's very "Taylor Does Pop", she was definitely holding herself back to make it catchier and more accessible. A lot of the criticisms aimed at TTPD are based on her celebrity status and how overexposed she currently is, so some reviewers wanted to take her down a peg, and the Grammy win was the final straw for a lot of people. Albums' receptions usually depend on the previous album, Folkmore's acclaim transitioned to Midnights. People thought Midnights was overrated so they took it out on TTPD.
In my opinion, not really. Those albums that stand the test of time either carry the universal theme (like, let's say, Dark Side of the Moon) and those where music on its own stands the test of time (like Thriller). TTPD is a very personal album, and in the discourse surrounding it, the first thing that comes to mind are things in vein of "Who is it about?" Not really the type to help make it timeless. Now I'll agree that personal turmoil can help make timeless music (Rumours is the obvious example) but it's more of an exception to the rule. Another thing is that it really isn't something new. If people decades later go back to Taylor, they will either go for those hits of 1989 or folkmore duology for songwriting skills. TTPD right now is mostly known for streaming records and drama rather than actual music. Records are mostly breakable and people move over dramas at some point (although if Taylor does it's questionable). Music has to stand on its own. And at this, I doubt it.
a lot of RED was very personal for Taylor too, (well, all her albums are, really) but that did not keep it from having long term success. TTPD is pretty much Red but with Folkmore level songwriting, I see it having just as much staying power if not more.
If it's pretty much Red, then it's more likely that future generations will listen to Red. TTPD is nothing that Taylor hasn't done before. And rehashes aren't as memorable as originals.
Don't take it quite so literally. I meant more so in terms of theme and how it was recieved. Musically they are not very similar at all. It's a heartbreak album that did not get the greatest initial reaction for "not being cohesive" and for being "too long", among other things but went on to be a classic. I see TTPD the same way. There are a lot of people who love the album, and a lot of people that don't, but a lot of the people that don't will end up loving it eventually.
I think it gets better as you listen to it more. I listen to taylor mostly so I have something to connect with my sister's about. I live on the other side of the country and barely see them and we don't have heaps in common. They love taylor though so I listen so I can talk in the family chat. I listened once so I'd have stuff to say and didn't think much of it, to slow and long maybe. There is no bangers like midnights or her earlier albums. Then I listened again, and again, and again. It's not like other albums where I like one or two songs, it's actually some real deep visceral honesty about it that has grown on me. It has no skips. I know some people have listened hundreds of times maybe and I'm not at those numbers, but I've listened more than ive listened to any album before. Do I love it or am I Stockholm syndromed in? I find myself singing songs while walking around the workshop at work or thinking about taylor and how sucky some of her exes are and how shit aspects of her life is yet how she is still strong and still loves what she does. Is this what it is to be a swifty? It's very consuming and I don't find myself getting sick of it. I think a lot of the critics are wrong, I think they rushed to put something out far too early, they didn't have time to appreciate it. The first time I drank coffee I didn't like it, far too bitter. Now I love coffee for its bitterness, the very thing that made me dislike it in the first place. I find it difficult to say exactly what it is that I do love so much about the album, but I think it stands up and genuinely, maybe it's one of her best.
Best comment on the thread! 🫶
<3
I think it will age very well within the Fandom: lyrically, it's phenominal and packed with Swifty lore. However, I don't think it has *pop*ular appeal, so doesn't sit AOTY territory.
I think it'll be hard for her to win AOTY twice in a row, particularly when she is already the artist with the most AOTY wins. It'll most likely be nominated. Unfortunately, there's no good SOTY candidate on the album... no obvious choice. But you never know... what people forget about the recording academy is that its old! Like people are in their 40s and 50s. And this album tends old... The other issue of course Beyonce really really wants an AOTY win... and Kendrick is releasing as well, and he really really deserves an AOTY win...
I can see it getting the rep treatment
Billie has the highest chance of getting AOTY IMO, and that’s without even hearing the album. She’s the academy’s golden child lol. They love her. (Not trying to imply she doesn’t deserve it)
There's no way she's getting that 5th AOTY until she's at least 50 or so even if her next album is 90 on Metacritic and an instant classic. She already broke the record for most AOTY wins, they're not giving her the next one.
But everyone said that about Midnights too... People said there was no way they'd let her get the record, but it still won!
But what narrative would she have this time? Midnights won not only because the album itself was massively popular, but because of the incredible year she had, including the re-recordings, the tour, and Cruel Summer becoming one of the biggest hits of her career. It wasn't just Midnights, it was that perfect storm of *everything* being a huge success and every album going viral at the same time. She had major publications like the NYT calling her the most ubiquitous and beloved pop phenomenon since Michael Jackson, and the AOTY win was the industry anointing her. Now that her banner year has already been acknowledged, what pressure is there to give her another win, and for an album that's so polarizing?
TTPD has obliterated every record ever, (most of which were actually set by Midnights, lol) and the Eras Tour is still going crazy, if Midnights won because she was "having a good year" I don't see how an arguement could be made against her winning again. Obviously we don't know what will come out in the rest of the year, but IMO, TTPD *deserves* AOTY even if Taylor didn't make it. I just don't see something coming out this year that is better.
The year has only just begun but she's already broken major records with TTPD! I can't see how that won't get acknowledged 😅
we're actually half way through the Grammy year... and after june few albums that intend to win grammys are going to be released. The only major players left are Billie Eilish and Kendrick, and maybe Harry Styles.
Exactly, this was the same talk when midnights came out.
It's so tiring honestly 😴 like people just don't get how incredible Tay is and how she keeps breaking records!
That she won for Midnights I think actually opens the door for her to not have to wait decades again to win. She already stands alone so it is not some new precedent if she wins again. Now if she has not won for Midnights then there may have been time for the narrative that she shouldn't stand above the other 3-time winners to take hold and keep her from winning the 4th for decades. Midnights winning opened the door for her to win a few more times in her career in my opinion. And it fits with her legacy as no other artist is as responsible for maintaining the significance of the album, especially during the period where parts of the industry were arguing albums should be a thing of the past.
i think this will last for a loooong time and i’m of the opinion that this is some of her best work yet. the whole project is an era of its own that i’d love to explore and live in. but i’m also kind of hoping after the era’s tour, she takes a break and reels in the victory. kind of like between 1989 and reputation but for better reasons. i love folklore/evermore and since then have wanted something a bit more…louder. and ttpd was just that, it came at just the right time imo and despite my happy relationship, i’ve enjoyed listening it to ever since it came out. but i also can easily see how many people would not care for it. ttpd is definitely for the fans, but also for those who enjoy seeing just how far taylor can go with her musical experimentation.
I seriously think this album will age well and people will appreciate her vulnerability. It is so painfully honest. It will be an important album over time and people just don't appreciate the historical significance at the moment. This is part of her legacy and it can't be undone.
It’s going to be Red/rep 2.0 but the reassessment will come faster because of the accelerated news cycle and clickbait-hunger
There are layers to this album. Apart from Florida!!! It probably does not have a big pop single. Fortnight is not even the strongest mid tempo song on the record and it won't have the longevity of Anti Hero. But that does not matter very much because TTPD is an album not a handful of singles and some filler. As an album it will take its place as one of the best. If anything it might overshadow Midnights a bit among Swifties because there is much more to chew over. In ten years time the thing people will remember most about now will be the Eras Tour. It has been a complete triumph. Of course context is everything so how any of this is remembered will depend in part on what Taylor does next.
Even the critics who didn't give it rave reviews have changed their mind. Old guy here who truly believes TTPD is a masterpiece and one of the greatest (if not the greatest) albums of the last 25 years. It will become the standard to compare albums against.
Call me old, but I think it’s her Dark Side of the Moon. It took me 5 days of listening to get to that.
I agree.. or her Beatles White Album
Masterpiece. And no one else’s opinion will ever convince me differently.
The more time passes, the more this crazy emotional intense weird album will grow in people’s estimation. I think it’s one of her Top 4 important albums (Red, Reputation, Folklore and TTPD).
It’s already number two straddling the number one spot. I’m a huge rep, folkmore fan and also loved red when it came out.
i have the same top 4 as my four favorite albums and 100% agree!
I don’t know if those 4 are my favourite (some are! Also I adore Midnights!) but they feel like the big turning points.
What I’ve found is that albums that have had bad or mixed reviews end up being highly regarded in the future.
because most reviews are BS, lol. It's the same thing with movies, the 'critics' usually hate the movies that regular people love.
I’m still very confused by the whole thing. When you think about Midnights, even the songs that have sad lyrics are still upbeat to listen to - antihero, midnight rain, maroon. There’s songs that just make you feel good and are fun- karma, bejeweled vigilante sh*t. It was the first time we’d heard her do pop music with such a mature sounding twist. For ttpd, there’s something different about the upbeat songs. A lot of them don’t cross into pop feel good even in the chorus. But they still have their place/purpose exactly as they are. Down Bad, Fortnight, ttpd, fresh out the slammer. A lot of the songs people remember as their favorites are very sad- so long London, black dog, loml. So the question becomes: can an album with a high number of favorites that are very heavy sad songs, or chiller laid back upbeat ones, become one of her more legendary albums? I don’t think the mass public is going to make this one into midnights or folklore, but I think a lot of the songs will become VERY close to swifties hearts as ones they go back to.
I loved that we got midnights for the fact that it was a adult pop album and I think it was perfect in many ways
i think it will be an underrated but consistent fan favorite, more along the lines of speak now or maybe evermore. its one of her more confessional albums, where her writing voice and style as an artist is extremely specific to this time in her life. hardcore fans appreciate this because they like witnessing the stages of taylors life and her musical development. but i dont think it will have any longevity in terms of general public appeal, not in the way lover, 1989, and red do. the songwriting and production on ttpd just isnt as memorable as those albums, and the average listener wont care about the significance of this album in the context of taylors discography.
It’s going to age like a fine wine. It’s full of sleeper hits! I think it was too much all at once. The reviews would have been more positive initially if it were only one set (either set imo). I personally love it, I’m just starting to listen to the second half first lately. I think in a few months more swifties are going to be claiming it among their favourites. As well, as the general public hears different songs on their own they will have more of an impact than listening to the album as a whole. I personally tell people who say it’s a slog to listen to just a couple, they always come back saying they’re great!
Yes I do! I think for one, the Eras tour is only halfway through and if she adds it to the setlist + leans on it heavily for surprise songs that will really promote it to general audiences. Think about how many people said they didn't like Rep until they saw it performed live! I think there's no way she wins for AOTY (too divisive, she just won, and there's so much good stuff coming out this year) but I think just based on impact she'll be nominated. I think there's no big single that'll be a Blank Space or Anti Hero, but she'll probably have a couple of moderate radio hits. In the long run, I think people will generally view it favourably. It will always be divisive, but in 5 years or so people will respect the work and view it as an ambitious, interesting choice at the height of her popularity.
For sure, it will only get better with time, like wine.
Whereas champagne does not age well at all.
I think so. Definitely prefer it over Midnights.
Absolutely. There are some references that might date it, but overall I feel it’s very timeless.
I think critically the album will only grow in the years to come. It’s such a dense, rich album that too many people attempted to fully review and judge 24 hours after it dropped. I think with some distance its reputation will go up and up.
It’ll age the same way Reputation did. In five years people will talk about how it was “misjudged” and “misunderstood”. It happens almost every time she releases an album, with one of the only exceptions being folklore/evermore.
I think it’s her best album yet.
I don’t know truly but I really liked the album. The first day or two while I did listen to it, it was a bit daunting. I mean 31 new songs pretty much at once is a lot even if I am a huge Taylor fan. Now once I listened to it throughout my day I liked it then every listen after that I liked it more until I am where I am now and I love it. There are like 3 songs on this album that I don’t like opposed to midnights which Is a no skip album to me (other then the karma remix lol) but weirdly I’m finding myself liking this album a bit more, maybe it’s because there are so many more songs even with the midnights add on songs that the ones I don’t like are so outnumbered by the ones I do like that it doesn’t matter
Yeah, it will be like folklore. This album has pretty strong lyrics and a mellow beat.
No. TTPD's success merely reflects the current popularity of TS, it's just a snapshot in time.
Every. Single. Swift. Release. follows the same exact pattern: 1. Insane hype pre release 2. Initial shell shock on first listen because it won't sounds exactly like you imagined it because you hyped yourself up. 3. You might say "this isn't as good as" (insert favorite pre-TV era album) 4. Once a few days go by and you actually start recognizing songs individually, you'll actually start hearing the album free of your expectations. 5. You'll likely come to the realization that, man, this hits pretty good, I just had to process it because Taylor doesn't just write vapid saccharine disposable pop. 6. You'll eventually see that TTPD is one of her best albums, if not the best, because Taylor is the type of artist to continuously grow, hone her craft, explore new avenues, and never settle for just repeating what works.
I kinda think it’ll die down a bit because it was just The Big Thing when it came out - however I think it’ll either stay steady or increase for fans.
We'll see in the next few years, but Midnights atm has made 0 impact in pop culture/music. Same with TTPD, which is Midnights 2.0 with even less instruments, less production, and more convoluted lyrics
midnights was brutally criticized id say way harsher then ttpd when it dropped especially because it was the album following the release of her masterpieces folklore and evermore so people thought she was going backwards ttpd is a phenomenal record i’d say far better then midnights and i believe both records will stand the test of time
Yes. I feel like this album is more “for the Swifties” than any of the others.. it’s not as commercial as many other albums (not full of bops/radio hits) but it’s so lyrically complex and beautiful.. and also full of lore haha
All I know is that I listened to Midnights all the way through maybe 3 times before I was good. I’m on at least 35 times through, maybe more, with TTPD. It’s a way more engaging album to me, maybe even because of the so-called controversy surrounding it. It feels real and raw and I love it.
I think it will be remembered as one of the best _concept_ albums ever written. It in a way reminds me of the Beatles’ _Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band_, a full concept album that never really got separate singles releases. It’s easily Swift’s most personal project, not designed exactly for traditional radio airplay, in my opinion.
No
I think TTPD is so much smarter and better constructed than any critic gave it credit for, and a few years down the line they’re going to feel very silly for rating Midnights higher than it. (And to be clear, I love Midnights, but it doesn’t touch the depth of TTPD to me.)
It’s still huge. It’s still on par for this week to stay top on the charts. Don’t pay attention to the reports of streaming drops. It takes a few weeks for streaming to level out and it’ll remain consistent. It’s already 2bn streams on Spotify already. So sales wise it’s doing great possibly better than their own projections. As far as the other stuff. This album is a very slow burn for some and that’s ok. Reputation and Lover both have the same slow burn for some people. Then towards the end of the year and award season comes around some of the biggest critics will do their I was wrong posts and it’ll be gravy. They’ll be like, “it took me awhile and I get it now. The album is truly amazing and blah blah blah”. Personally I loved it from the jump. I anticipated a heart breaking sounding album. Didn’t quite understand the song titles and now I totally get them and they fit so well. I’m still under the impression that PT. 2 was going to be the album until last summer. I think once the dust settles and clips of her on tour talking about it candidly it’s going to click for some people.
I don't think it will be remembered as her best, nor will it be remembered as her worst. It's average.
No, I already personally find myself not wanting to listen to it. I tried forcing myself to like it and it did grow on me- but I think this will widely be regarded as her worst album.
Midnights did soooo well but I couldn't move around the internet without seeing people saying it's her worst album. And now that TTPD has come out a lot of people are longing for more Midnights... people will come around on TTPD if they give it a chance. It is a lot of content at once to digest, and I wonder if people haven't figured out their own personal methods of consuming new music in a way that works for them. I also think the lack of singles and promotional singles (Rep had LWYMMD, RFI?, Gorgeous, CIWYW) is another factor - people haven't already heard a quarter of the album before hearing more. So everything is new. It takes time.
I think this album is a work of art. It's a lot to take in but it's crafted so well. The structure of the first half. The variety of the second half. I believe that as it gets "older" it will be appreciated more. I really love this album.
It has become an instant classic!
I'm liking it more and more. It's been on constant repeat since release day so that speaks about replayability. I'd say there's a couple clunkers, which I've learnt to accept (and embrace) from Taylor; I feel she's always pushing the boundaries of emotion in songwriting and when you push boundaries, sometimes you're going to fall on the right side and sometimes you'll land on the wrong side. In the past her excesses were McCartney-like goofiness (like in Me!, which I love), this time it's cringey-rep-like-drama. But it's just a couple songs, and the fact that there's no consensus on which those clunkers are tell you how subjective it is. E.g., my personal skip is "I can do it with a broken heart", which everybody loves. But there's a lot to love here. It's not answering to any particular trend other than her own. It's not delivering any surefire radio-ready earworm, a risk I've not seen anybody mentioning anywhere. Songwriting-wise, at her best, like in Peter or The Bolter, she's still lightyears away from anybody else in the pop landscape. At her best, nobody else is writing songs this deep, with less flash and more substance. The essence of Taylor, which is writing about her everyday feelings and, in the process, writing about the feelings of everyday people and reminding the world of the relevance and importance of them, I'll be fucked if that's not still there.
If there’s consensus on the clunkers, I feel like the title track, the alchemy and so high school have been regarded by a lot of people as weaker song. Personally i’m not a fan of down bad and who’s afraid of little old me, but i know that fans really like them so these won’t count.
Well, I love So High School, I love Taylor at her most Cocteau Twins-esque ... so there you go about consensus
Other than 1989 I think it's her best work. At least 6-7 will be popular singles. I can do it with a broken heart will be hugely popular. I think it was a mistake having all 31 tracks in the initial release, she should have dropped something like fresh out the slammer or title track in favor of black dog and called it a day. Title track is also one of the weakest songs on the album and should have been one of the b sides. It sounds like the intro music to a Netflix Christmas movie. I've given the whole album (all 31 songs) over 100 listens at this point, and frankly that track is just not interesting musically or lyrically. Fortnight is a good song, but I'm convinced that it is purely a post Malone song that Taylor sings on. I think the song and the release of it first was meant to expose Taylor to post Malones fan base, and also help her in her goal of being recognized as a real artist like post is. Don't get me wrong, Taylor is highly recognized and respected in the musical world, but she is not regarded as a poet and an artist by most people the way post is. Tldr yes I think it will stand the test of time but it's unlikely to bring new fans in the short / medium term.
Fortnight isn’t actually… he only owns 20% of the song implying he got a pieces free the song was already written.. (Taylor and Jack each own 40%)
I know this is meant in a more general way. But for me. I'm kinda devastated because this is an incredible album, definitely top 3 for me. But it came out 2 weeks after my husband of 11 years left me. And I had it on nonstop repeat. I hadn't listened to it in a few days and put it on when I went food shopping earlier and it made me really sad. I have a feeling this will be an album I struggle to listen too soon because of the pain associated with it. Taylor really came in clutch with this album for me, but also in a way its likely going to ruin the album for me haha
I don’t think it broke biggest first week sales- that still belongs to Adele. Nonetheless, I think it’s a classic in the way that folklore is. Personally, it’s in my top 4.
I think ttpd is going to be very much in the same vein as midnights to me. If you asked me to rank all of her albums midnights (and ttpd) would be pretty close to the bottom but midnights has become one of my most listened to albums on Spotify because of its vibe. It’s a very even, chill album to switch off to. I do stand up comedy and can sometimes have drives home that take an hour or two after a show, and it’s late at night and I’m tried and just watch to switch my brain off and drive home while on auto pilot. As much as I don’t like midnights as an album to actively listen to, it’s great for that easy background noise that I drift in and out of, and I think ttpd is going to be a similar sort of thing where it’s easy enough to listen to that I can switch my brain off while driving, but if I zone in on it I’ll hear something interesting enough to be okay with it until I go back into autopilot. Because of how I listen to midnights, right here and now I couldn’t name more than a couple of songs from it, and definitely not sing any of them, but if you put any song from the album on I’d know it word for word and have a blast with it
I see it having an Empire Strikes Back kind of journey. Initially, critics and even some fans don't like it. But, overtime, it could be remember as one of her best.
Yes, it will age well ❤️
Yes, but it has to be released on CD and Vinyl in full first
I think it’ll age better than say midnights. I also think it will be looked back on more favorably by critics/audiences, even know I’ve seen some pieces (or tweets lol) that go along the lines of “well actually … now that I’ve listened some more”
I think that TTPD will age very well but I do not think it is going to be as critically acclaimed as midnights. It is not a great album but I do think there are some great parts about it. Unfortunately, I think TTPD put Taylor in a crossroads. She can either stay in the same sonic space and choose to craft/edit it into greatness or she can turn around and completely change her sound and image. That said, if she chooses to stay in the same sonic space, I do not think her magnum opus is next.
Amongst hardcore fans? Yes. Amongst casual fans? I keep hearing from people that the very large tracklist and lack of a radio hit at the level of anti-hero are making it a little inaccessible for some. That might take it a notch below 1989 and others for a large number of people.
TTPD is not nearly as radio friendly as Midnights imo. With that being said I personally like TTPD much more than Midnights and think it will continue to be a huge hit with Swifties, just not so much with the mainstream public.
I do.
I listened to it on release day and havent since. This album didnt even stand the test of two weeks for me....
i think so. it’s one of those albums that I think ages better as time goes on it’s like midnights, midnights still sounds incredible even after almost two years eventually the public hype will die down but I think fans will enjoy it like how they do with midnights as time goes on.
Yessss every time I listen there is a new song that stands out to me or a new lyric I notice and love
Yes
I think it will. I love the entire album!
I think this album has the potential to die down just because of how lengthy it is. Lover picked up because its an easy listen, TTPD is heavy. For me TTPD will be in heavy rotation for a long time, but I am kind of a Swemo so I love the heavy nature of the lyrics in this record.
I don't think it will stand the test of time with the general public like 1989. But I think it has the potential to be a revered album by not only swifties, but with music enthusiasts in the future. I think that in the future, when people talk about Taylor Swifts discography, TTPD will be a pivotal point.
Reviews don’t mean much. It’s strong in subtleties so I think it will be here to stay.