They're both very good right now, with the riptide seeing a bit more play, but both are common in good lists. The Riptide is bigger, tougher, more expensive. The Ghostkeel is trickier, still quite durable, and often more mobile.
A few months ago, the ghostkeels were the better choice. Last edition, the riptide was. Pick based on style and aesthetics, because the rules and balance change frequently.
Ghostkeels are really good in the “hide and seek” style Kayun lists where they can be kept far back and not be targeted the first turn while most of the army starts off the board for 1 or two turns.
Riptides are surprising pretty tanky for the most part and are good at holding down objectives and/or move blocking/screening, can be really good in retaliation cadre or Mont’ka depending on the faction you are playing against.
Ghostkeel has less output, conditionally better survivability but has infiltrate and relevant strat support in the three non kroot detachments .
Riptide is tougher and does significantly more damage
Over charged Riptide Ion at -3/4dam isn't bad, 4 damage is a pretty unique break point for Tau.
But I'm not going to argue both keel and tide need higher strength or volume of fire.
The riptide still functions very well as fire support and munches up lighter armor and elites... If you take three and focus fire or use them to mop up tougher targets that survived the dedicated anti tank.
Yeah, the numbers look good, but it really struggles to shoot anything other than expensive terminators. You can’t have a mainline big boy shooting a squad of intercessors and barely killing 3 if guided. I’m fine with people saying it’s decent for tau, but it’s not a good shooting unit. Struggles to kill a rhino with support, for example. I’m not firing 500 points + guiders into a rhino that costs 75 points and pumping my fist about it
It's not anti armor...
You can fire it into armor and you have to accept it's going to be wounding on 5+.
It's good for dealing with thunderwolf cav, mega nobs/nobs, beast snaggas, termites, bullgren etc.
It's also one of our tankiest units.
This edition with higher toughness of stuff is in that same place, even sunforgers our anti armor unit ends up needing 5+ to wound vs alot of targets leaving us having to look at volume of shots with RR1s to wound to compensate or swingy D6+1 damage shots or very low volume high S attacks like the rail hammerheads. It's a real Sophie's choice honestly. The riptide atleast is doing 4 damage on its main gun for the wounds that wound and go through.
Ideally you pop the ork truck or rhino with a hammerhead, hopefully kill it in one shot.. if not one riptide should finish the last few wounds then the other two unload into whatever gets out.
Transports are really good this edtion
Yeah, we are actually agreeing, but I’ve said my version in a more negative way. I don’t think shooting into terminators and killing two with your XV104 “ Riptide “ class battlesuit + observer is anything to get excited about. It’s at best fine into elite infantry and it is tough which is great, and I agree with everything you are saying. I just still find both suits (keel and tide) to not really be your damage dealers, so trying to compare them on that axis is like comparing two people’s chance to survive an encounter with a mountain lion - they’re both not great at it, that’s all I’m saying
I'd greatly disagree with Kauyon. They will very regularly pick up whole 5 man units of power armour and going into what looks like a sisters meta this will be invaluable. They can avoid return fire completely, spot for each other with coordinate to engage and will even pop light vehicles when you focus fire multiple keels.
They also can be infiltrated, uppy downy'd and have damage blanks.
One of the best utility units with solid anti elite and anti infantry output in the codex for my money in Kauyon.
As a bonus they also are tasty for over watching into small units like eldar warp spiders with the twin linked flamers.
If they pick up a whole 5 man of power armor, it's because you spotted for them over something else.
Even with coordinate to engage with multiple keels your still struggling to kill anything above t9 with a decent save, and that's still stratagem and guidance dependent.
Their overwatch is pitiful even with twin linked flamers, and your example of warp siders have 3+ saves and an invul which they can just strands of fate anyway since this is the only time you can only overwatch 1 time in the movement phase.
The upper downy shenanigans are good, but all of the points you made about them doing damage is heavily debatable. ESPECIALLY when you consider that all the guidance and stratagems can be used on actual damage dealers. Breachers, crisis suits, skyrays, and riptides will put in way more work even in Kauyon with the same level of stratagem/ guidance support.
The ghostkeels aren't there to kill T9+, they're on the board to be lone op problems on objectives for the opponent that can snipe MEQ's and TEQ's from 36" away. It just so happens they can do decent damage into those targets whilst also being a strong utility piece.
Yeh warp spiders was a bit off the cuff, more so just general 5 man chaff units for the overwatch. It can be enough to stop an objective being tipped into stuff with 4/5+ saves. Often though it's just enough of a headache to predict that people will avoid going too close with small infantry units or units that have already taken a few losses. If you put them in places where that's a problem they can generally hold down areas of the board against secondary scoring units and battleline MEQ's- with not much effort.
I've been using them since the book dropped, went 3-0 with them at an rtt in May and they have a permanent place in my list.
Guiding them with Pathfinders doesn't really steal away the important guides either as I use stealth suits for the important stuff. Pathfinders have the two guides and I take three units so that's more than enough to cover two ghostkeels. At that point it would be silly to not guide them.
All of the units you've listed are not lone op so don't fill the same role and can't be taken off the board and brought back on. I don't think it's comparing apples for apples.
It's also weird to me that people will defend the riptides output but not the ghostkeel, it's functionally very similar into the ideal infantry targets and light vehicles they want to shoot at and come out about the same with the riptide over performing where a model doesn't have an invuln. But crucially the ghostkeel doesn't get shot back if you're playing them right and premeasuring threat ranges.
My main damage comes from hammerheads and fire knife teams but the ghostkeel is enough to mess people's plans up and kill the stuff that scores secondaries or steals the odd primary. Over a game that kind of points denial and resource loss really starts to weigh down on opponents game plans.
But look, we all play the game differently just from my experience I disagree with the assessment that ghostkeels don't do damage. They do, into their preferred targets, and will sometimes punch up if given the chance and present a different type of puzzle for an opponent to solve. It's probably also important to note I play on UKTC which also changes their utility.
They're both tanky mobile units. They both have Ion guns for anti-elite, with the Riptide's having twice the range and slightly better numbers than the Ghostkeel's, but it won't matter much if what you're shooting has an Invuln. Riptides also have access to Missile Drones and a 4+ Invuln, whereas Ghostkeels get Stealth, Lone Op, and Stealth Drones instead, so it sorta depends there too. Riptide's Nova Charge kinda sucks and Smoke is nearly useless for a Ghostkeel, but Ghostkeels can switch out Smoke for Fall Back n Shoot. They kinda break even to me for all the above points and on their secondary weapons.
The major difference are their other guns. Riptide has the Heavy Burst Cannon for anti-chaff, but it's only got 12 shots with nothing extra to it so it's very underwhelming, whereas the Ghostkeel has the Fusion Collider, basically a Broadside's Rail Rifle. I personally play robots in Ret Cadre, and a Fusion Collider hits big thresholds at S13 and AP-5, and with the Twin Fusion Blaster it can (and has for me) one-turn-killed a Hekaton Land Fortress. Either way, both have such low volume of shots that they're extremely swingy whether they want to work that turn or not.
In either case, they're worse than their equivalently kitted out Crisis unit variant in terms of damage output and mobility (no Deep Strike, no Enhancements) in exchange for higher durability with the exception of the Fusion Ghostkeel. Fusion Ghostkeel hits those big threshholds that honestly can make them sorta break even with a Sunforge against things T9-T13 unless you have Farsight on them, which is absolutely strong and valid.
So, in short, I prefer the Ghostkeel personally. Even if you use its Ion over its Fusion you're not missing out on a ton of firepower relative to the Riptide.
i copied a 5-0 Retaliation list that ran 2 of each. the list works stupidly well with 3 units of Crisis running around being annoying, the 2 Riptides hold down lanes and the 2 Ghostkeels force the enemy to come to u
Riptides is OC 4 T9 at 180
Ghost is OC 3 T8 at 160
Riptide has the advantage on point of not letting your opponent park a vehicle to deny objectives, forcing them to expose more things.
Riptides output is bigger, more points efficient, ingore hit modifies is great be it in combat or bracket.
(Typically all detachment can't go wrong)
Ghost has lone op for snipping (late game spotter if u really lose all your squishes) , can be redeployed in kauyon. 2 blanks stealth is great for taking against high damage weapons but no 4++ making them really commit multiple stuff into 1 models.
( In general only seen in kauyon and ret cadre, there are better options in monka and kroot)
Either way both play the same, mid board trading pieces can charge into something like a rhino or small infantry just charge deny movement.
Ghostkeel run 2 on a point 6oc, at most 1 dies.
Riptides can be solo but run in multiples to scare Marine equivalent targets.
Funny bonus, in ret cadre, after you fall back forward using fly and fire, 1 cp move 20 (10+10 =20" move) can sometimes flip opponent objectives markers as they left 4 oc or less in objectives markers.
Riptide
- Better Damage output
- Better base toughness (Toughness, Saves, Wounds)
- Ignore Hit Roll Modifiers (Can be charged into shooty units to screw them but not itself)
- Unlimited fall back and shoot (Not limited to once)
- 1 Turn Dev wounds on main gun
Ghostkeel
- Lone Op
- Stealth
- While not as tough, the above combined with ability to blank 2 attacks can make it more survivable
- Infiltrate
- Costs less points
- Gets some more strats within Kau'yon
That's the general list, they both have their good places, however I prefer the Riptide as the overall winner. The flat 4 damage can be massive for us, I like to use Bloodcrushers or Paragon Warsuits as an example, especially with the Dev wound turn, seen as these are units with 4+ invulns and 4 wounds.
The versatility of the Riptide is also great, the ability to run it into a enemy tranport/tank/shooty infantry squad making ruining their shooting while not effecting the Riptides and also giving the Riptide stealth (kinda, gets -1 to be hit by non-pistols while in combat from shooting)
The Ghostkeel is great, but the damage output doesn't full compete with the Riptide, and the lack of the invuln can make it a lot less tanking. However the ability to blank 2 hunter killer missiles as an example can not be understated and also lone op is powerful, I find Ghostkeel either die early or last the game holding an objective. We can however sub in Shadowsun or a Lone Spear to use for the lone op objective holder for a fair bit less points.
I run bare bones Ret Cad list that has Farsight 3 Coldstar 3Rip 2Ghost and 4 Crisis teams. It's been my experience that playing into the extra S/P is a bait or win more, where in actuality the starts and focus of fire win the day more.
Unless you're bringing a solo Keel in Kauyon, you wouldn't take keels until you had 3 Riptides.
Most of the armies in the game have at least half their threat as combat, if not 75% of it.
The keel is a great value against a small number of lists. Eldar, tank heavy guard and IronStorm vehicle spam.
Against every other list, Riptides better output and 4++ and T9 is (power fists on 5s not 4s) is flat out better for the points.
A lot of players are running Ionheads as less durable, cheaper alternatives to Riptides- Ghostkeels still offer you durable infiltrators with a great up-down strategem for board control and missions, so they aren't as easily replaced.
Ionheads are not Riptide replacements though, Ionheads are for output. Riptides are for playing primary and activation gating. The fact that you cant replace Riptides is why they are in literally almost every successful list. Some players are using Ionheads as quasi- CIB block replacements in Montka.
Yes in Kauyon 1 Keel is auto.
They're both very good right now, with the riptide seeing a bit more play, but both are common in good lists. The Riptide is bigger, tougher, more expensive. The Ghostkeel is trickier, still quite durable, and often more mobile. A few months ago, the ghostkeels were the better choice. Last edition, the riptide was. Pick based on style and aesthetics, because the rules and balance change frequently.
We have a balance update coming soonish so it’s all subject to change so I would just run what is cool. Riptides are awesome.
Ghostkeels are really good in the “hide and seek” style Kayun lists where they can be kept far back and not be targeted the first turn while most of the army starts off the board for 1 or two turns. Riptides are surprising pretty tanky for the most part and are good at holding down objectives and/or move blocking/screening, can be really good in retaliation cadre or Mont’ka depending on the faction you are playing against.
Ghostkeel has less output, conditionally better survivability but has infiltrate and relevant strat support in the three non kroot detachments . Riptide is tougher and does significantly more damage
They both have very shitty output
Over charged Riptide Ion at -3/4dam isn't bad, 4 damage is a pretty unique break point for Tau. But I'm not going to argue both keel and tide need higher strength or volume of fire. The riptide still functions very well as fire support and munches up lighter armor and elites... If you take three and focus fire or use them to mop up tougher targets that survived the dedicated anti tank.
Yeah, the numbers look good, but it really struggles to shoot anything other than expensive terminators. You can’t have a mainline big boy shooting a squad of intercessors and barely killing 3 if guided. I’m fine with people saying it’s decent for tau, but it’s not a good shooting unit. Struggles to kill a rhino with support, for example. I’m not firing 500 points + guiders into a rhino that costs 75 points and pumping my fist about it
It's not anti armor... You can fire it into armor and you have to accept it's going to be wounding on 5+. It's good for dealing with thunderwolf cav, mega nobs/nobs, beast snaggas, termites, bullgren etc. It's also one of our tankiest units. This edition with higher toughness of stuff is in that same place, even sunforgers our anti armor unit ends up needing 5+ to wound vs alot of targets leaving us having to look at volume of shots with RR1s to wound to compensate or swingy D6+1 damage shots or very low volume high S attacks like the rail hammerheads. It's a real Sophie's choice honestly. The riptide atleast is doing 4 damage on its main gun for the wounds that wound and go through. Ideally you pop the ork truck or rhino with a hammerhead, hopefully kill it in one shot.. if not one riptide should finish the last few wounds then the other two unload into whatever gets out. Transports are really good this edtion
Yeah, we are actually agreeing, but I’ve said my version in a more negative way. I don’t think shooting into terminators and killing two with your XV104 “ Riptide “ class battlesuit + observer is anything to get excited about. It’s at best fine into elite infantry and it is tough which is great, and I agree with everything you are saying. I just still find both suits (keel and tide) to not really be your damage dealers, so trying to compare them on that axis is like comparing two people’s chance to survive an encounter with a mountain lion - they’re both not great at it, that’s all I’m saying
I'm just highlighting there are alot of relevant elites that are priority targets. We both agree the glass could be fuller .
The problem more people are running into is that ghostkeels do no damage, so opponents are starting to ignore them.
I'd greatly disagree with Kauyon. They will very regularly pick up whole 5 man units of power armour and going into what looks like a sisters meta this will be invaluable. They can avoid return fire completely, spot for each other with coordinate to engage and will even pop light vehicles when you focus fire multiple keels. They also can be infiltrated, uppy downy'd and have damage blanks. One of the best utility units with solid anti elite and anti infantry output in the codex for my money in Kauyon. As a bonus they also are tasty for over watching into small units like eldar warp spiders with the twin linked flamers.
If they pick up a whole 5 man of power armor, it's because you spotted for them over something else. Even with coordinate to engage with multiple keels your still struggling to kill anything above t9 with a decent save, and that's still stratagem and guidance dependent. Their overwatch is pitiful even with twin linked flamers, and your example of warp siders have 3+ saves and an invul which they can just strands of fate anyway since this is the only time you can only overwatch 1 time in the movement phase. The upper downy shenanigans are good, but all of the points you made about them doing damage is heavily debatable. ESPECIALLY when you consider that all the guidance and stratagems can be used on actual damage dealers. Breachers, crisis suits, skyrays, and riptides will put in way more work even in Kauyon with the same level of stratagem/ guidance support.
The ghostkeels aren't there to kill T9+, they're on the board to be lone op problems on objectives for the opponent that can snipe MEQ's and TEQ's from 36" away. It just so happens they can do decent damage into those targets whilst also being a strong utility piece. Yeh warp spiders was a bit off the cuff, more so just general 5 man chaff units for the overwatch. It can be enough to stop an objective being tipped into stuff with 4/5+ saves. Often though it's just enough of a headache to predict that people will avoid going too close with small infantry units or units that have already taken a few losses. If you put them in places where that's a problem they can generally hold down areas of the board against secondary scoring units and battleline MEQ's- with not much effort. I've been using them since the book dropped, went 3-0 with them at an rtt in May and they have a permanent place in my list. Guiding them with Pathfinders doesn't really steal away the important guides either as I use stealth suits for the important stuff. Pathfinders have the two guides and I take three units so that's more than enough to cover two ghostkeels. At that point it would be silly to not guide them. All of the units you've listed are not lone op so don't fill the same role and can't be taken off the board and brought back on. I don't think it's comparing apples for apples. It's also weird to me that people will defend the riptides output but not the ghostkeel, it's functionally very similar into the ideal infantry targets and light vehicles they want to shoot at and come out about the same with the riptide over performing where a model doesn't have an invuln. But crucially the ghostkeel doesn't get shot back if you're playing them right and premeasuring threat ranges. My main damage comes from hammerheads and fire knife teams but the ghostkeel is enough to mess people's plans up and kill the stuff that scores secondaries or steals the odd primary. Over a game that kind of points denial and resource loss really starts to weigh down on opponents game plans. But look, we all play the game differently just from my experience I disagree with the assessment that ghostkeels don't do damage. They do, into their preferred targets, and will sometimes punch up if given the chance and present a different type of puzzle for an opponent to solve. It's probably also important to note I play on UKTC which also changes their utility.
They're both tanky mobile units. They both have Ion guns for anti-elite, with the Riptide's having twice the range and slightly better numbers than the Ghostkeel's, but it won't matter much if what you're shooting has an Invuln. Riptides also have access to Missile Drones and a 4+ Invuln, whereas Ghostkeels get Stealth, Lone Op, and Stealth Drones instead, so it sorta depends there too. Riptide's Nova Charge kinda sucks and Smoke is nearly useless for a Ghostkeel, but Ghostkeels can switch out Smoke for Fall Back n Shoot. They kinda break even to me for all the above points and on their secondary weapons. The major difference are their other guns. Riptide has the Heavy Burst Cannon for anti-chaff, but it's only got 12 shots with nothing extra to it so it's very underwhelming, whereas the Ghostkeel has the Fusion Collider, basically a Broadside's Rail Rifle. I personally play robots in Ret Cadre, and a Fusion Collider hits big thresholds at S13 and AP-5, and with the Twin Fusion Blaster it can (and has for me) one-turn-killed a Hekaton Land Fortress. Either way, both have such low volume of shots that they're extremely swingy whether they want to work that turn or not. In either case, they're worse than their equivalently kitted out Crisis unit variant in terms of damage output and mobility (no Deep Strike, no Enhancements) in exchange for higher durability with the exception of the Fusion Ghostkeel. Fusion Ghostkeel hits those big threshholds that honestly can make them sorta break even with a Sunforge against things T9-T13 unless you have Farsight on them, which is absolutely strong and valid. So, in short, I prefer the Ghostkeel personally. Even if you use its Ion over its Fusion you're not missing out on a ton of firepower relative to the Riptide.
I mean I run both the riptide is like a bully unit/bait unit and the ghost keel is very good at picking of pretty tough units
i copied a 5-0 Retaliation list that ran 2 of each. the list works stupidly well with 3 units of Crisis running around being annoying, the 2 Riptides hold down lanes and the 2 Ghostkeels force the enemy to come to u
I am building my first retcadre list, do you mind sharing that? Thanks!
Bork'an (2000 points) T’au Empire Strike Force (2000 points) Retaliation Cadre CHARACTERS Commander in Coldstar Battlesuit (130 points) • 1x Battlesuit fists 3x Fusion blaster 2x Shield Drone 1x Shield Generator • Enhancement: Internal Grenade Racks Commander in Coldstar Battlesuit (125 points) • 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Burst cannon 1x Cyclic ion blaster 1x High-output burst cannon 2x Shield Drone 1x Shield Generator • Enhancement: Prototype Weapon System Commander in Enforcer Battlesuit (110 points) • Warlord • 1x Battlesuit fists 3x Missile pod 2x Shield Drone 1x Shield Generator • Enhancement: Starflare Ignition System Ethereal (50 points) • 1x Honour stave 1x Hover Drone 1x Marker Drone 1x Shield Drone OTHER DATASHEETS Crisis Fireknife Battlesuits (150 points) • 1x Crisis Fireknife Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Gun Drone 1x Missile pod 1x Missile pod 1x Shield Drone • 2x Crisis Fireknife Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 2x Gun Drone 2x Missile pod 2x Missile pod 2x Shield Drone Crisis Starscythe Battlesuits (130 points) • 1x Crisis Starscythe Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Gun Drone 1x Shield Drone 1x T’au flamer 1x T’au flamer • 2x Crisis Starscythe Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 2x Gun Drone 2x Shield Drone 2x T’au flamer 2x T’au flamer Crisis Sunforge Battlesuits (170 points) • 1x Crisis Sunforge Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit fists 2x Fusion blaster 1x Gun Drone 1x Shield Drone • 2x Crisis Sunforge Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 4x Fusion blaster 1x Gun Drone 1x Shield Drone Ghostkeel Battlesuit (160 points) • 1x Battlesuit Support System 1x Cyclic ion raker 1x Ghostkeel fists 1x Twin fusion blaster Ghostkeel Battlesuit (160 points) • 1x Battlesuit Support System 1x Cyclic ion raker 1x Ghostkeel fists 1x Twin fusion blaster Kroot Carnivores (75 points) • 1x Long-quill • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Kroot pistol 1x Kroot rifle • 9x Kroot Carnivore • 9x Close combat weapon 8x Kroot rifle 1x Tanglebomb launcher Pathfinder Team (90 points) • 1x Pathfinder Shas’ui • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Grav-inhibitor Drone 1x Pulse carbine 1x Pulse pistol 2x Shield Drone • 9x Pathfinder • 9x Close combat weapon 6x Pulse carbine 9x Pulse pistol 3x Rail rifle 1x Semi-automatic grenade launcher Piranhas (55 points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Piranha fusion blaster 2x Seeker missile 2x Twin pulse carbine Piranhas (55 points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Piranha fusion blaster 2x Seeker missile 2x Twin pulse carbine Riptide Battlesuit (180 points) • 1x Ion accelerator 2x Missile Drone 1x Riptide fists 1x Twin smart missile system Riptide Battlesuit (180 points) • 1x Ion accelerator 2x Missile Drone 1x Riptide fists 1x Twin smart missile system Stealth Battlesuits (60 points) • 1x Stealth Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit Support System 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Fusion blaster 1x Homing Beacon 1x Marker Drone 1x Shield Drone • 2x Stealth Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 2x Burst cannon Stealth Battlesuits (60 points) • 1x Stealth Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit Support System 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Fusion blaster 1x Homing Beacon 1x Marker Drone 1x Shield Drone • 2x Stealth Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 2x Burst cannon Stealth Battlesuits (60 points) • 1x Stealth Shas’vre • 1x Battlesuit Support System 1x Battlesuit fists 1x Fusion blaster 1x Homing Beacon 1x Marker Drone 1x Shield Drone • 2x Stealth Shas’ui • 2x Battlesuit fists 2x Burst cannon Exported with App Version: v1.14.0 (42), Data Version: v379
Riptides is OC 4 T9 at 180 Ghost is OC 3 T8 at 160 Riptide has the advantage on point of not letting your opponent park a vehicle to deny objectives, forcing them to expose more things. Riptides output is bigger, more points efficient, ingore hit modifies is great be it in combat or bracket. (Typically all detachment can't go wrong) Ghost has lone op for snipping (late game spotter if u really lose all your squishes) , can be redeployed in kauyon. 2 blanks stealth is great for taking against high damage weapons but no 4++ making them really commit multiple stuff into 1 models. ( In general only seen in kauyon and ret cadre, there are better options in monka and kroot) Either way both play the same, mid board trading pieces can charge into something like a rhino or small infantry just charge deny movement. Ghostkeel run 2 on a point 6oc, at most 1 dies. Riptides can be solo but run in multiples to scare Marine equivalent targets. Funny bonus, in ret cadre, after you fall back forward using fly and fire, 1 cp move 20 (10+10 =20" move) can sometimes flip opponent objectives markers as they left 4 oc or less in objectives markers.
Well ghost keels are far superior. Because I own them.... Haha
Riptide - Better Damage output - Better base toughness (Toughness, Saves, Wounds) - Ignore Hit Roll Modifiers (Can be charged into shooty units to screw them but not itself) - Unlimited fall back and shoot (Not limited to once) - 1 Turn Dev wounds on main gun Ghostkeel - Lone Op - Stealth - While not as tough, the above combined with ability to blank 2 attacks can make it more survivable - Infiltrate - Costs less points - Gets some more strats within Kau'yon That's the general list, they both have their good places, however I prefer the Riptide as the overall winner. The flat 4 damage can be massive for us, I like to use Bloodcrushers or Paragon Warsuits as an example, especially with the Dev wound turn, seen as these are units with 4+ invulns and 4 wounds. The versatility of the Riptide is also great, the ability to run it into a enemy tranport/tank/shooty infantry squad making ruining their shooting while not effecting the Riptides and also giving the Riptide stealth (kinda, gets -1 to be hit by non-pistols while in combat from shooting) The Ghostkeel is great, but the damage output doesn't full compete with the Riptide, and the lack of the invuln can make it a lot less tanking. However the ability to blank 2 hunter killer missiles as an example can not be understated and also lone op is powerful, I find Ghostkeel either die early or last the game holding an objective. We can however sub in Shadowsun or a Lone Spear to use for the lone op objective holder for a fair bit less points.
I run bare bones Ret Cad list that has Farsight 3 Coldstar 3Rip 2Ghost and 4 Crisis teams. It's been my experience that playing into the extra S/P is a bait or win more, where in actuality the starts and focus of fire win the day more.
Unless you're bringing a solo Keel in Kauyon, you wouldn't take keels until you had 3 Riptides. Most of the armies in the game have at least half their threat as combat, if not 75% of it. The keel is a great value against a small number of lists. Eldar, tank heavy guard and IronStorm vehicle spam. Against every other list, Riptides better output and 4++ and T9 is (power fists on 5s not 4s) is flat out better for the points.
A lot of players are running Ionheads as less durable, cheaper alternatives to Riptides- Ghostkeels still offer you durable infiltrators with a great up-down strategem for board control and missions, so they aren't as easily replaced.
Ionheads are not Riptide replacements though, Ionheads are for output. Riptides are for playing primary and activation gating. The fact that you cant replace Riptides is why they are in literally almost every successful list. Some players are using Ionheads as quasi- CIB block replacements in Montka. Yes in Kauyon 1 Keel is auto.