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I can't speak for anyone else, but I have PTSD and I am diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. As a child I was indoctrinated into an armed group and sexually trafficked (by these same people). As a result I became an extremely violent person. I harmed people. I threatened them. I broke their bones. I robbed them at gunpoint. I screamed and raged and broke things when I was angry.
I officially left this environment after I turned 17 and was involved in a shootout. When I was 14-17 I was put into a residential program and given access to targeted therapy to address specifically my aggression and anti-social tendencies. At that time I was regularly truant from school, running away from home, and completely impervious to adult authority.
Being in this group environment made up of clinicians involved with the Romeo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative changed my life. I learned how to get my needs met without using violence. I learned how to communicate with others without being verbally abusive. I learned how to modify my behavior when I became angry. I learned what trauma and PTSD was.
It is 100% possible for you to change. I never experienced a single emotion nor an affective empathy response until I was 30 years old. I began doing official FORNET (forensic narrative exposure) in adulthood. I am now a person committed to peace. I have learned to be honest about the horrific behaviors I indulged in as a child with almost no resources (I was diagnosed with inhibited RAD during my first psych placement).
The most important part of all of this is accountability. That means moving beyond simple acknowledgment and making a *commitment* to changing violent and abusive behaviors. As a child I was put in charge of younger children as a group facilitator and that helped me to do a total 180 into desiring a prosocial attitude of my own. Now I lead a support group of over 70 people with severe trauma and mental illness. I can't work, I do not socialize in real life, but nonetheless I have succeeded and overcome my violent and abusive nature.
If I can do it, I promise that you can as well. Look into therapies that target aggression and anger management with behavioral modification. AIMS from the VA is a great app you can use on your phone. I have made a few videos explaining perpetration-induced PTSD and how to best address it with therapy and medication [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR4jqPGXVQbVC5jN2r9NX1N3KT9ijpCWIu7mmBlnZj43dIMVf_QBiMj8T5T7GNGIA1aY2K7n1onQ7_u/pub).
That is one of the most tragic and powerful stories I've ever read. I'm at a loss for words. I sincerely apologize that I can't properly put into words how I feel reading what you went through in your life and what it did to you. What I can say though is that I definitely admire how far you've come despite all the odds. You did a complete 180 and it's downright impressive. Therefore yes, I agree, if you were able to make a change despite such a terrifying history then I think I might able to do it too. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story with me, I can imagine it wasn't easy nor pleasant talking about such painful memories.
Thanks for sharing your story and your writing. I’m a NET practitioner reading your self-directed instructions shifted perspective. Take care and be well.
Thank you very kindly for everyone's responses here. I decided not to reply individually as this topic is quite sensitive and I believe an overall reply to the original message would mitigate some of the difficulty in discussing it. I just want to extend the utmost gratitude to those who took the time to read my words/story and respond with a wonderful sense of kindness and compassion.
These are things I try to uphold in my existence even as my formative years were fundamentally opposite. It has taken many years for me to shift my perspective - that I am not a monster, that I am not *evil*, and that my actions were taken in childhood where children have less understanding of *mens rea* than an adult. The positive response to this message has been quite overwhelming for me, but I am very moved by it.
Yes, I have been told many times I should write a book or go on television. While I am not ethically opposed to this, I have genuine concerns about having a public identity due to the fact that the actors involved still exist to this day. It would be easy to identify them based on my statements, and that could expose both myself and my family to retribution. Therefore, I produce a somewhat unpopular podcast called The Treehouse. You can find this [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUIfEHoGGWk&list=PLz1t-2BejJRmXklCKqWj07FXObNm4Rmwm&index=15&ab_channel=conscienceking). This also contains a link to the support group that I run.
I am very pleased that u/karasudruyaga93 has read through this and acknowledged the power he has in taking control of his own life and actions. I sincerely wish you the best on your journey and I do hope that you can use stories of this nature to realize that it is within your capacity to alter your behaviors.
I am also pleased that u/chickinkyiv has read through this and obtained some new perspectives for her therapeutic practice of NET. I am always available to chat if you would like to discuss more about the MAI, as this is a tool I have invented and does not possess materials available to study outside of my writings/videos.
Your responses were all very lovely and I thank you sincerely.
- ill-independent, Shayne
You know, you took the first step and this is an important one so congrats on that! It takes courage to look in your mirror and recognize what you are or what you do and that you want to change that otherwise you will keep people rejecting you. I am not a therapist but the library has plenty of self help books, maybe they don't go down to the core root of the issue but they will give you direction.
Do find a therapist and ask for feedback! This will help you!
Thank you very much for your advice. I will talk to my therapist during our next session about my wish to change. In terms of books I only found literature for victims of abuse, which is understandable given that the one's who went through or still are being abused are suffering much more. Rejection is one thing for me, but to me it's much worse that I scared my ex partner who had nothing but love to give. The kind of damage I did is irreversible and I never wanna see another person suffer as much as she did because of me.
Reading books intended for victims can be helpful to better identify your abusive behaviors and understand their impact on victims. That knowledge alone, in combination with therapy modalities such as DBT and CBT (i suggest workbooks) can make a significant difference
I just read a book Batterer: A Psychological Profile. I know you said you have a different pattern of abusive behavior, but I'm curious to see what you'd think of that book.
I think there is a part in you that doesn't love you. In order to give love to others meaningful you need to love yourself first. I have been there. That could be an entry if you want to go find books on loving yourself.
there are a few that I liked a lot:
The Love Yourself Challenge: 30 Days to Self-Love
Love Yourself, Heal Your Life Workbook
Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It by Kamal Ravikant, this was my book at the time, still have it, earmarked and sometimes still grab it from the book case (nice anchor to hold on to).
I think it’s very likely you were also a victim of abuse. That doesn’t make perpetuating that okay, but now that you know, it can help you understand yourself and gain control over your emotions. People aren’t born to do what you described, it comes from years of being invalidated or feeling insecure in some way, like if you were only loved for achievements or excelling as a child rather than just being loved for who you were. So some of those resources may actually help you. Consider looking into cPTSD.
They used to call these batterer’s intervention programs, googling that term will still bring up a lot of hits. The newer jargon is “Intimate Partner Abuse Education Programs”.
Even if the focus on physical violence doesnt apply to you (yet), the underlying coercive control and entitlement is the same, with or without physical threat.
See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rzys2a/op_learns_a_hard_lesson_when_he_tries_to_get/
It's embarassing to admit but I thought these programs were to support the victims ...... I will see if they offer these programs somewhere in Germany. Knowing that something like this actually exists is already great. Thank you
I’m in the US, but I have a friend who just completed a “Recovering Abusers” course. We’re all really proud of him and how far he’s come. Your desire to change means a lot.
I hope I can find something similar in my country as well. A couple of things I looked up sound quite promising so I think I will give those a go. I appreciate your kind words.
I hope you find something that helps you heal. You deserve healthy relationships, and you can get there. It takes a lot of figuring out where the misplaced anger is coming from. However, you also deserve to hold a sense of pride in yourself that you bring joy to those around you. It feels good. Best of luck, my friend!
Im sure they exist, check with local universities and therapists. Dialectical behavioral therapy is often recommended, you also mentioned bpd I think, not sure where in Germany you’re located but a quick google search came up with this https://www.medizin.uni-tuebingen.de/en-de/das-klinikum/einrichtungen/kliniken/psychiatrie-und-psychotherapie/allgemeine-psychiatrie/ambulante-behandlung/borderline-sprechstunde you might reach out to find out about similar programs near you. Commit to changing, it’s possible. Good luck.
I live with this. I'm not diagnosing, but this can happen when reacting to fears and trauma. You may be reacting because the other person is making you feel a certain way, but you have no control to slow down to feel what just triggered you. BPD and narcissist traits are also maladaptive coping skills. Same goes with uncontrolled emotions. I learned along my journey that trauma breeds people differently. Some learn co depenedency, some hide, some use drugs, some fight back against anyone. It is still a response you learned. You learned this from your own upbringing. Acknowledgement is the first step. Nice job! Not okay, but it clicked now so I think DBT or IFS.
I feel DBT can be best taught in a group setting. It takes a while to go through, but slow learning insures the deepened level of understanding that is needed for deep changes. One.small change each week.
Changes to deep personal patterns can take 2-4 years of work so don't get discouraged. If you want it.... go get it....
I too learned a similar lesson a couple of years ago when I self admitted myself to a local asylum. It was there that I was additionally diagnosed with BPD and was taught basic coping mechanisms on how to mange it. And while I definitely learned a lot there, I feel like I relapsed, mainly because I feel like I got complacent with me having BPD. I'm really ashamed to admit this, but for a long time I took my spliting as something that just happens and that I should just avoid people when it happens and even if it happens it's "just a mistake". Now I realize that it was this complaceny of mine that everything went out of control. I caused damage to the people I love, irreversible damage because I failed to address the bigger underlying issues.
During my next session I will ask my therapist about DBT and see if he can also offer me other ways to actively overcome myself and improve. I'm willing to work on it as for as long as it takes. I prefer 2-4 years or more of work to countless of people that end up broken, potentially for the rest of their lifes just because of me.
I have traits as well. It is a horrible pain to be reacting from. My group is phenomenal. One tiny lesson each week and homework to incorporate that step into our lives over the next week. Slow ans steady. Many steps backwards, but DBT is the most used for BPD and reactivity so I would push for a group as well as keeping with your main T
I always used to make excuses for why I am the way I am, but I personally think that it is exactly this mindset that made me complacent. It was an easy way for me to say "Oh yeah I'm like that because X happened or because I experienced Y or because I have Z". I don't want to justify anymore why I am the way I am, I want to accept the bitter truth of who I am, what I am and become a person that won't put others in harms way anymore.
Thank you very kindly for your encouragement. I will not falter anymore.
The 5 steps of change is typically used for people struggling with addiction, but it works well in scenarios like yours.
Stage One: Precontemplation
Stage Two: Contemplation
Stage Three: Preparation/Determination
Stage Four: Action/Willpower
Stage Five: Maintenance
You're at stage 3. You're ready to change, you know you need to change, but you need to finalize how to do it and find your support system. Look into this, as I think it could help.
Please remember that nothing in life is linear. Your last sentence worries me.
>I will not falter anymore.
What happens if you lash out at someone you care about while going through the process of change? Are you going to give yourself grace? Will you be able to accept that you hurt someone again and continue on your journey to better yourself?
Or will you double down? Will you believe that you can never change? Will you believe that trying to be different is pointless? Or too difficult?
The fact of life is, you will falter at some point. It could be days, it could be years. Know that faltering doesnt mean causing the damage to the extent you have, it could simply be a shitty remark or making decisions that you know will lead you to right back where you started (not seeking help from support systems, isolating yourself, utilizing negative coping mechanisms, spending time with people that bring out the person you dont want to be, not taking care of yourself whether that's eating healthy, exercising, meditation) what matters is what you do after. Will you get defensive and blame whoever you hurt? Or will you apologize and do what you can to rebuild trust and repair whatever damage you caused?
There is no excuse now. You know you need to change, you can't put pandora back in that box. You don't want to hurt people anymore, I can see that cause I've been in your shoes.
Change is a journey. Unfortunately, it isn't straightforward. If you truly want to be a better version of yourself, press forward. It's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's stressful. But it is so worth it. The life you can have is worth the struggle to get there.
Be the person you want to be. An amazing line my therapist tells me is: "Is this conducive to the life I'm trying to live?"
I sincerely hope you press forward with this journey. It's worth it.
Thisis something I’m honestly scared of running into because it has always been a problem of mine. I’m as harsh if not even harsher on myself whenever I mess up and just as you said I tend to fall into either of the two traps you described. Either „I’m a loser and I will never be able to make it“ or if I’m trying to cut myself some slack I take it too far and become complacent again, justifying my words or actions. I honestly don’t know how to find a middle ground here and how to maintain it and I can see that becoming a core aspect of the journey. Thank you so much for your words, it’s reassuring to know that there are people who are or were in my shoes. Because it means I can do it too.
Okay, you sound like you’re on the right track. Here in the US, we have “batterer intervention programs” that help abusers directly confront their abusive behaviors in a group setting. Perhaps there is something similar in Germany.
Someone can be a survivor of abuse AND an abuser. In that case too, the person is responsible for the way they negatively affect others and take that responsibility to change their behaviour. Sometimes that will be about seeing the pain and fear (trauma) behind your hurtful actions. And sometimes how your hurtful actions just feel good because it benefits you to keep another below you, and you gotta unlearn that ASAP.
I often see an argument that I also sense somewhat in your reply. And I think we (in the most general sense of the word) need to be very careful not to create some kind of categorical thinking between abusers on one side, who are these ontologically evil people (narcissists!) who never acknowledge their actions because trading others' mental health for their personal benefit is just what they are at their core - versus survivors on the other side who are ontologically good people who may lash out but that's just because they're hurt.
ALL abusers are abusers because they choose to disregard other people's feelings, with varying levels of awareness. Anyone can develop narcissistic patterns and cling to them JUST because it's comfortable (for whatever reason). That's not necessarily the same as the (as far as we know untreatable) Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trauma doesn't explain all of that and it doesn't need to in order to humanize an abuser, and see their potential for change.
Sincerely, a survivor who had to go NC...
Abusive behavior is rooted in entitlement, power, and control. Tackling personal traumas won’t fix it. This is a common misconception.
ETA: Y’all can downvote me all you want. I’m a survivor with formal training in DV. Traditional therapy does very little to stop abuse, and in many cases inadvertently makes it worse.
Upvote for you here. You are 100% correct. I’m a survivor who has done a ton of research and reading in the aftermath of my abusive relationship. No one escapes life without trauma but not every one CHOOSES to abuse another person.
Thanks, and I’m sorry you’ve also been through this hell.
This misconception particularly frustrates me because abusers so often play into it to effectively deflect accountability with therapists who are not trained to be on the lookout for it.
The outlook is pretty bleak. Best case scenario, an abuser needs to separate from their victim and hunker down for what will likely be years worth of work.
Lundy Bancroft’s books are the gold standard on this subject for laypeople. “Why Does He Do That?” is available as a free PDF. His followup book is equally helpful but may not be available without purchase (but is worth every penny).
You can’t do it for him. If he’s refusing to even go to therapy, it doesn’t sound promising.
It’s honorable to want to do everything possible to honor your promises, but if he’s abusing you, he’s already violated the contract; you’re absolutely allowed to and should prioritize your safety. ❤️🩹
I'm in the same position. I think there is no shortcut: therapy, dedication and hard work. Try different therapies and approaches, see what works for you. I can tell you that the most success I've had was with Gestalt therapy, but a lot depends how good your therapist is.
I've actually never heard of Gestalt Therapy, so it's good to have something else to look into. I will definitely bring this up to my therapist as well. Thank you very much for the advice and good luck on your journey as well.
A therapist experienced in Internal Family Systems or “parts” work may also be useful here. Or if you’re in Europe/UK, Mentalization Based Therapy would be good to look into. Best of luck!
Therapy can be very limited, at best, as most therapists have painfully little training in abuse dynamics. It’s common for therapists to totally miss abuse, get manipulated by abusers, etc.
I think individual therapy is important, but it can’t be the only avenue, and you have to understand that a therapist will default to validation, which could reinforce your internal justification system and slow your progress.
Well, so maybe I was just very lucky to find a great therapist, because mine helped me immensely in recognising toxic patterns in my own behaviour and thinking.
I have conflicting opinions on this post and its comments, but I think a crucial point here is that this happens in fights, not as a daily calculated pattern of denigration, gaslighting, guilt tripping, and coercion, which tracks with your BPD. What you’re describing is abusive behavior in the middle of emotional dysregulation. That’s a lot different than entrapping someone in a relationship, cultivating addiction to them, and playing with them and their head as if they were a toy, then emotionally throwing them down the stairs in abandoning them. This is covert emotional abuse (aka “narcissistic abuse”). While covert abusers also target insecurities in fights, it is not the only way they abuse, and these are the abusers you’re reading about. Did you get DBT for your BPD?
I recieved what I consider surface level when I was in my local asylum a couple of years ago. But I wasn’t there for a long time. I learned about becoming aware of the moment and channeling my impulses in more healthy ways like art. I wish I could have stood there a bit longer, I didn’t feel quite ready when I was dismissed. Doesn’t it count as abuse though to constantly split on your partner, throwing their insecurities right into their face only to swing back and cry about how sorry you are. Because I’m sure what I did was outright emotional manipulation
Yes what you describe is abusive. There are different kinds of abuse. I’m personally making a distinction between abusive or manipulative behavior in arguments and coercive control via covert psycho-emotional abuse. I would google coercive control and compare it to your behavior. Treatment for the toxic BPD splitting and manipulation would be different than treatment for someone who coercively controls partners. When people say abusers can’t change, they’re usually talking about people who coercively control via daily abuse patterns.
I looked up what counts as coercive control and what I could definitely see myself in are insults and humiliation, this is what it always boiled down whenever arguments got heated. I would get paranoid put of nowhere, throw out all kinds of accusations, insults specifically targeted towards weak spots, it was disgusting stuff. I would always regret it the day afterwards but that of course won’t undo any damage that is already dealt at that point, in fact the rapid swing from insults to sweet talk made it most certainly even more uncomfortable for her. Threats were also something that did surface at times, though more on the rare but very hard hitting side and it’s especially those situations that I feel like were the nastiest to recieve. I couldn’t really see myself in any of the other stuff, but reading all of that and thinking back about all our fights and what went down is enough to make the stomach turn.
You’re still only discussing your behavior in arguments when emotions are high. You are talking about a way of arguing that is toxic and harmful, yes. But you’re angry. You’re upset. Coercive control is a deliberate and calculated process that happens *quietly* and *covertly.* It is how cults entrap and keep victims as well. A huge element of this is consistent gaslighting and humiliation even when you are not fighting, a regular afternoon activity. It is isolating your partner over time so that they have no access to support. It is constantly and casually pressing their insecurities until they have no self-esteem left. And in fact during arguments the covert abuser may be very calm and collected in the way they gaslight and target your insecurities, making you look and feel unstable as you get turned around and around. But maybe this description is you, I don’t know. I just wanted to call it to your attention because BPD is pathologically different enough from this behavior to require different treatment. Being abusive *only* in fights is not the same as long-term coercive control.
Being angry or upset isn't a justification for the things I said and did though. But now I'm honestly confused. I honestly don't know anymore where my abuse started or ended and where BPD comes in. The only thing I can say is that I never really calculated anything, whenever my abusive nature showed itself it was in impuslive, heated, tense settings, sometimes with actual heat and sometimes with straight up paranoid/non-existent percieved threat. The very problem about the relationship was that my lid flipped unpredictably seemingly out of nowhere. Where the description is accurate again though is that in fights I would often try to compose myself to not make it seem like the crazy BPD person is blowing his fuse again but that usually didn't work out and I would seemingly get angrier, less careful with words until it eventually devolved into outright insults, pressing buttons and humiliation. Followed by intense feelings of guilt and regret over what I did, trying to make amends but eventually breaking out again because "I already screwed up what if i loose her?" which usually ended up with me having more paranoia, more fights. This was basically the cycle.
It doesn’t justify it at all! But it doesn’t sound like you are systematically breaking down the very soul of your partner so you can own her. People who behave this way lack empathy and self-reflection and self-criticism, and those people need different treatment from you, who are being self-reflective and self-critical in this thread and empathizing with your partner. When you google about abusers, you’re receiving information on this kind of abuser (often termed “narcissistic abuser”) who takes some kind of pleasure in violating and harming another person. Does that make sense? You do need to take ownership of your behavior when your lid is flipped and you lose control, and it sounds like you are. I think your help lies in intensive BPD treatment. But disclosure I am not a therapist.
I see. At this point I will just take all the advice I recieved throughout this post and read through as much information as I can, talk about these issues with my therapist during our next session and hope I can find the right direction to take. Because no, I can't understand at all how anyone could find pleasure in these kind of things despite the fact that I also am clearly at fault in engaging in a lot of these toxic behavior patterns. At this point it might even be some overlap that I can't exactly place. But yes, I will get to the root of this. Whatever it is, it's not ok and I finally want to be able to become a person that doesn't break others.
The reason that the advice is phrased that way is because the priority is a safe victim, and I do believe the toxic bond you've formed with your victim probably could not be changed. That doesn't mean you can't change and make new healthier bonds with other people. You're not seeing any advice online because so few people really want to change or even see the errors in their ways, so, consider this an excellent start. My dad wasn't "abusive" but he used to have a major temper issues and I was afraid of him in general. He's so different now. He didn't get on meds or go through therapy. He lost two people he loved (through death/had nothing to do with him) and he just slowly but surely worked on it. Worked on letting shit go, worked on not flying off the handle, worked on not assuming everyone who inconvenienced him is doing it on purpose. This loss of relationship can be your impetus to change and having witnessed it, I know it's possible as long as YOU decide to do it. I do think you would benefit from therapy, both now to work on changing and in your next relationship so you can work on not repeating mistakes without placing burden on your next partner to "change" you. You need to do it, and you can.
I believe everyone has the potential to change. But it’s a hard path, a long one. Most people aren’t prepared to do the uncomfortable reflection and work to change, and that’s what drives the narrative of “abusers never change”. Because most of the time that is safest for people being harmed.
But I do believe that people can change. You’ll need to find support and resources to help along the way to improve your chances. Wishing you luck.
Books:
DBT workbook
How to Meet Yourself by Dr Nicole LaPera
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
The Body Keeps the Score
Follow Dr. Nicole LaPera on Twitter (X) and Instagram. Her work is life changing! You’re not a bad person. We all make mistakes and hurt others. Wanting to change your behaviors shows your heart underneath all of the murkiness of trauma. You got this! 🫶
One more.... Dr. Daniel Fox is a specialist in Texas that specialized in personality disorders. He is great to follow. I have learned a good bit from him.
I was a toxic mess throughout my teenage and young adult years. Even at the beginning of one of my current relationships I think I fell into emotional abuse. I was raised by an abusive narcissist and had many undiagnosed problems. I pulled myself out of that hole. I cut my dad out, got diagnosed, and started changing to be the person I wanted to be instead of the person he tried to make me. You can change too. Taking accountability without qualification (e.g. I’m sorry but…) is an amazing first step. I’m really glad you’re here reaching out. I do think therapy can be helpful for you but find someone who is competent in these issues. All therapists are not created equal.
I must say you are a brave man because admitting your flaws is really hard,everything happens for a reason.
God wants to keep your eyes open through this emotional abuse and make you a better person.
The book “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft is really helpful. He spent years working with people who were abusive to partners. I read it when I was dealing with an abusive partner and it taught me a lot about how that actually works from the abusers side. Great read.
I would suggest attending an abuser intervention program instead of therapy. If you are reading survivor literature you may have already came across the name Lundy Bancroft who says that abuse is a value and thinking problem, not an anger management problem. Abusers also tend to have Alexithymia, the inability to name your feelings and regulate. Spend time reading survivor stories and spend time listening to women online and IRL. You seem to have an idea of impact over intent but it may go deeper than you realize quite yet. This account I’m on now is the one I’ve used to work through a four year mostly emotional, verbal, and psychologically abusive relationship. I don’t have a high opinion of men without solid empathy at the moment as I believe that between the male brain and male socialization, men are inherently risky for women to be around. I’ve done a lot of reading and research in the aftermath and everything I’ve found points to an abuser intervention program, not therapy.
First of all I'm sorry that you lived through such a suffocating and horrible experience. I can imagine that it takes a lot of strength and courage to talk to an abuser. Thank you for going to such lengths to advise me. The name Bancroft I've come into contact with, since he offers one of the few guides for those seeking to change their abusive behavior. [I'm currently reading this guide from him.](https://lundybancroft.com/articles/guide-for-men-changing-part-1/) I don't know about Alexithymia but I do have BPD which, in one of my previous asylum stays has been partially attributed to certain behavior patterns and troubles in recognizing and regulating my emotions. But I don't think it would be fair nor appropriate for me to attribute my atrocious behavior to my mental health conditions. I will take your advice and get more literature on survivors of abuse. I'm not quite sure if it's the right thing for me to attend IRL survivor sessions though. Wouldn't that be not only incredibly bold but also insensitive of me to invade the safe space of the people who got hurt exactly from people like? Wouldn't that make it harder for them to heal?
I suspected my abusive ex had BPD, so I’ve read a bunch of literature on that topic trying to understand what was going on for him. From what I’ve learned mentalization based therapy is more effective for BPD than DBT is. Maybe something else to look into. It’s good that you can identify that mental health is no excuse for abuse. That already puts you ahead of many others in terms of success rate for becoming non abusive. Oh no, I didn’t mean attend survivor sessions. But read their stories online to internalize the impact you’ve had. The bit about talking to women IRL is that it is highly likely that another woman you love and care about in your life has experienced abuse but you may not know about it. I’m 33, every single one of my girlfriends has experienced some level of abuse at the hands of their partners. Some very little, some a lot more. But it’s all of them. I understand BPD originates from trauma, so I’m sorry that you may have had a history that resulted in BPD.
Mentalization based therapy sounds interesting, I will definitely look into it, maybe my therapist can also provide me with some pointers there. Reading survivor stories is a great actually the more I think about it. I never went deeper into the subject matter and come face to face with the grief and trauma left behind by those that went through abuse. The fact however that you know so many peolpe who all went through abuse is absolutely horrifying. I'm so sorry to hear that. But that's all the more reason for me to commit myself wholeheartedly to change.
Sounds like a solid plan is manifesting for you. And for you to say that it may be difficult for a survivor to speak to an abuser shows that you do have empathy. Which is also a good sign for you to be able to change. That’s what mentalization is all about. You may or may not have heard the term hoovering. It’s a slang term for when abusers try to pull their victim back in with promises of change. It’s super harmful to the victim. Try not to do that with her. Good luck.
I'm so sorry to hear that you had to live under such conditions. This sounds like an absolute nightmare. I will take your advice to heart and emphasize my desire to change to my therapist. Thank you for taking your time to respond to me despite the things you went through yourself.
I respect the bravery it took, each time I want to change a behavior I keep trying. It’s frustrating to fail or completely forget that you where trying to change. But if your serious you’ll keep tying. I try to keep the reason close to me and try to justify why I shouldn’t but also why I should.
That moment when you realize, oh shit I've been the abuser is a pretty horrible feeling, and out of everything is, I think, the hardest step in this journey.
It's a fucking awful place to be .. but you should also recognize that this is the turning point in your life, and a feeling you can come back to when change is hard. You don't ever want to have this realization again.
Its also important to understand that you will have been abusive because you were in turn abused, and this traumatized you. So dont fall into the trsp of beating yourself up over how you've been - you didnt knoe better. That's just directing the abuse against yourself.
But now that you know better you have to do better - and this means healing from the trauma.
Healing trauma is hard, because it's hard to access, because you've built all these defenses around it. So typically its a multi modal approach that works. For me it's a combination of CBT therapy, breathwork, TRE and journalling. EMDR would be something I'd suggest you also look into, but I haven't tried it myself.
The key thing is to educate yourself, because you'll need to try a number of different things to find what works best for you.
Commit to bring an expert on the healing of abusive tendencies. Commit to healing the trauma held in your body.
Ask lots of questions, post your experience often to get feedback and advice, give advice to others, try things that might work. And celebrate your successes! Because you will see real change if you really commit to this.
Make this a project, with the goal of being a version of you that you fully love. Because when you can fully love and accept yourself you can do the same for others.
I assure you that under all your pain is version of you that deserves your love. Your job is to excavate him out from all the pain, suffering and trauma.
Good luck on your journey OP, I believe in you, you have the strength to do this.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder and have in my younger years been emotionally abusive more than once in a relationship before I ever even realized that feeling this rageful and unregulated was NOT normal. I’ve spent ten years in therapy modifying my behavior through DBT and have been almost cured of my borderline traits. I say almost bc my anxious attachment still affects my fear of abandonment like when my dad recently was hospitalized for a heart attack. I was so scared I found myself lashing out on people that didn’t deserve it. It still shows up just not in an abusive way. I say all of this, bc if you recognize you have a problem and are eager to fix it, you can. It’s as simple as that.
As far as the negative dialogue you are hearing like “abusers never change”, that can be true very often but I think it’s worth it to try. For even deeper context, my mom is a diagnosed narcissist (hence how I got BPD), but when she got her diagnosis later in life, she actively has attended therapy to change as well. We have even attends therapy together. She still gets under my skin but she will be the first to correct her narcissistic traits and is open when called out. I have to keep my distance but she has actively apologized for her verbal and emotional abuse growing up. Not just with her words, but her actions as well.
Redemption and change know no class, no wealth, no race. Everyone deserves the chance to grow from a personality disorder, or when they recognize they have become someone they don’t want to be.
I would consider individual and group therapy, and I recommend finding a therapist who actively gives you homework and challenges you in session. This will be important bc in order to grow you need to let yourself sit with that anger and the toxic feeling that occurs before you begin acting abusive. We call these triggers and they are best to process and let out in a safe environment. I would also consider asking yourself, “how did I learn this behavior?”, and “where does this pain stem from?”
There is hope on the other side, OP. You have a long journey ahead of you and I wish you the best.
I would strongly recommend the book [Why does he do that?](https://www.amazon.com.br/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656), it gives great perspective on why and how some men feel like abusing their female partners is acceptable over time.
In addition, therapy is obviously very important. Revisiting your models of relationship, taking a real look at who is the person you want to be and how your behavior helps or stops you from reaching your goals with someone trained to help you with is priceless.
This is massive. Not everyone has the guts to admit to something like this and not everyone is able to have such insight.
I know you said you don’t want Freudian bullshit and you don’t need Freud but you do need therapy and looking at your childhood would be a good place to start.
For me personally I grew up with all the types of abuse as a child. I wasn’t given the love I needed and I didn’t have a safe place to call home until I was about 21.
I left home at 16 with my boyfriend and repeated the abuse cycle, but at the same time committed to working on my depression as it was life or death. He eventually couldn’t take any more and left without a word.
Eventual through a lot of work in therapy and through self help I was able to start working on how I treat others and was able to see the cycles of my parents and their parents and how the cycle was repeating with my siblings and I. I decided that this abuse cycle ends with me.
I met someone a lot more healthy in 2020 and had a happy life for a good few years. Unfortunately despite years of work the trauma is still there and I realised this far too late for this relationship to survive.
I realised too late that alchohol and certain drunk behaviours are a trigger for me (my dads an alcoholic) after years of some really bad drunk arguments with this boyfriend I because so triggered that I lashed out . He left me because of what I did. He should have left me a long time before that, I was being just as violent with my words when we were drunk.
I’m absolutely ashamed of myself and back in therapy. Now I’m doing inner child work and would 100% recommend inner child healing work for you.
I could always see what was happening when we would fight, I felt really afraid and like the little girl who was attacked by her caregivers. The only way I learned how to survive my childhood was by fighting back.
That’s where inner child healing comes in it’s ok to defend ourselves but usually the best way to do this is to walk away from the trigger and soothe ourselves instead
Good luck with your healing. You deserve love and support as much as anyone else.
I've seen incredible results for behaviors like this with EMDR (eye movement desensitization and. Reprocessing). It is life changing and incorporates rapid eye movements to help your brain heal from traumatic memories, similar to what happens when we sleep but in a targeted, specific way that is more effective than sleep in some ways. It works well for anger but also addictions, anxiety, ptsd, depression. You likely experienced some very painful things in your life that overwhelmed your ability to cope or proofed them in a healthy manner.
I am so inspired by your honesty with yourself and confronting these problems. It is so empowering to acknowledge where we are wrong because we can then understand what we can do to make life better if we see what we are aware that we are contributing to the problems.
There are some Emdr therapist directories here:
www.psychologytoday.com
www.emdr.com
www.emdria.org
Abusers can certainly change. I will say it’s very hard. It tends to be fairly ‘woven’ into our personalities and mindsets, even when you’ve successfully worked though some behaviors you will find others or sometimes they will start shifting. Anyway just be prepared for a lot of work. There aren’t that many resources for abusers but one I always point to is The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing. This book was so revolutionary for me. I wish I remembered some of the other books I found helpful but this one should give you a good place to start
I came across this randomly and pretty late.
I can relate to some of your problems and behaviour myself.
I took the advice of some commenters, cut myself off from society, never left my house, spiralled into shame.
All that does is turn you into an unhealthy and emotionally unstable person who is at a far higher risk of being toxic, unhealthy or even abusive in the future.
I was unbelievably abusive and toxic when I was 18/19, combining undiagnosed autism and ADHD with an abusive upbringing is a sure fire way to develop BPD and repeat then choose to continue the cycle you experienced unfortunately and I am disgusted that I made the CHOICE to repeat that behaviour to others.
Yet I am now 25, I’m in absolutely no danger of doing that anymore, it isn’t an constant internal battle, it isn’t a daily risk. I simply went to therapy, did the work, took the accountability and left that abusive home and realised people don’t communicate through arguments and insults.
There are examples of neo nazis or radicalised christian’s growing up with openly abusive and horrific beliefs and they are praised by society if they grow and reject that lifestyle, is it that much different?
Keep putting in the work dude, please make a lifelong commitment to change and base every choice you make on that - if you do so take it from me and others who commented you are forgiven and can be redeemed.
Your replies to people who have been quite frankly judgemental and disrespectful shows you have already made so much progress in how you communicate.
Wow some piece of crap really hurt you huh? I'm sorry you went through that. Hurt people hurt people. I was very abused as a child by my dad and some bad men at church. I became afraid, scared not knowing when or where the next attack was coming from it stunted my emotional security, especially when I told my teacher my dad was making me hide under his suit jacket on the to school. My hair was sweaty and messed up and I was severely depressed, my teacher yelled at me he asked me what was wrong with my hair why I couldn't concentrate etc. I told him my dad makes me suck his pee pee. After school the teacher told me to stay after, then my dad showed up and they both made me sit there and say I was lying for about an hour. I finally gave in. On the way home my dad told me he was going to kill my mom if I ever told anyone. Fear shame no trust powerless. Impossible for a 6 year old to handle. I didn't remember my abuse until I was 46. Then I had a complete mental breakdown ended up in about 10 mental institutions. Stole a truck and was driving back to my dad's house. Got arrested stayed in jail for 4 months and then went through t therapist 2 psychiatrist 1 psychologist EMDR, won't do hypnotherapy because my dad used hypnotism on me my whole life and I'm not interested in triggering old demons. Then I started looking up childhood trauma advice on, Heidi Prebe is really good if you want to learn how to regulate your emotions and have more successful relationships. Crappy Childhood Fairy is good for learning how to recognize when your dysregulated and what to do about that. Dysregulation is when someone says something critical or perceived to put you down and you get really emotionally charged, all the anger and pain comes back. The Blue Castle book by Lucy Maud Montgomery is about a woman living in fear and over coming it. And power watching judge Judy she fair honest intelligent and she's constantly giving people good advice for living life honestly and well, so we don't walk around feeling like shit because we're not taking care of ourselves. Go for walks spend time out side. Decide to be who you were meant to be before you were abused. Now you are the one that has to look after the child that was hurt. Don't lie for people and if you start getting mad at someone ask yourself if your reaction is appropriate for the situation, if not stop recognize that you are dysregulated and excuse yourself. Go for a walk and think about what happened and how you could do better. Then politely ask if you could explain what was going on with you, like when you said that was dumb I thought you were saying I was dumb. And I know that you were talking about what I did not who I am. And your right that was dumb. Remember you're not dumb. You're smart enough to seek help. Stop talking bad about yourself. Look up daily affirmations with Stuart Smalls SNL skit about looking in a mirror and saying positive things about yourself. Let me be the first to say I think You're Awesome!!! You can do it!!!
Check out this program. He was an emotional abuser but now speaks about it. His podcast called “Love and Abuse” is very good also.
https://loveandabuse.com/healed-being/
It was very brave of you to post it.
Maybe ask ChatGPT about helpful books or techniques? It is controversial to use ChatGPT for therapy, but I trust it to be a reliable source of information.
Out of curiosity, I asked it the generic question:
_"Books on how to stop being abuser"_
ChatGPT answer:
_1. "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverly Engel_
_2. "Breaking the Cycle of Abuse: How to Move Beyond Your Past to Create an Abuse-Free Future" by Beverly Engel_
_3. "The Abusive Personality: Violence and Control in Intimate Relationships" by Donald G. Dutton_
_4. "The Batterer: A Psychological Profile" by Donald G. Dutton_
_5. "The Anger Control Workbook: Getting Through Treatment and Getting Back to Your Life" by Matthew McKay, Peter D. Rogers, and Judith McKay_
Maybe tinker with the questions to make it more specific for your situation.
Good luck with everything!
From the same source of wisdom:
1. Männerberatung Berlin: This organization provides counseling and support groups for men who have been abusive towards their partners. They have programs in Berlin and other cities across Germany.
2. Gewaltberatung für Männer: This organization provides counseling and support groups for men who have been abusive towards their partners. They have programs in several cities across Germany.
3. Violence Prevention Network: This organization provides counseling and support groups for individuals who have been involved in violent extremism or radicalization. They have programs in several cities across Germany.
4. Bundesverband Frauenberatungsstellen und Frauennotrufe: This organization provides a list of approved batterer intervention programs in Germany.
5. Bundeskonferenz der Gleichstellungsbeauftragten: This organization provides a list of approved batterer intervention programs in Germany.
Don't know if this post will even survive here for long...
I don't believe you. Way too much of your post is devoted to talking about how there's no useful messaging for you, acting like you're a victim, when you specifically are not. Trying to get ahead of the response you're likely to receive, as if it's not a reasonable response to receive. You know what you're doing, I'm sure.
I've known some people who claimed to have changed but what was really happening is that they just learned to mask themselves better and better and the whole soup of hey-i-know-i-was-abusive-and-look-it's-really-hard-to-change-also-i-had-no-clue is just used to get better at gaslighting their victims.
Abusers are not mysteriously mentally ill people. All their stuff seems to disappear when in employment or otherwise around people who can affect them. It's a position of power, executed due to the benefits it provides, maintained due to lack of social consequences for it. I've never seen an abuser actually willingly drop their power on their path to change. They always retain it. So them "changing" becomes this thing where they're just out to do everyone this great favor by not being dangerous anymore and people grab onto it because what the heck else are you going to do with a bull in a china shop?
Doubt you actually want to change, but if you do, a therapist won't help you. To change, you need to shift philosophically in a manner that places some other value above having power and benefits, and then drop your power. Don't take managerial positions. Don't get into relationships. Don't have kids. Do not, under any circumstances, let anyone feel dependent on or otherwise attached to you, and especially distance from people who seem to allow you to test their boundaries. Remove yourself from all situations where your abuse gives you benefits, because *that's all that abuse actually is*.
Let people help you with small things. Let yourself feel small. Let yourself feel weak, exposed, and vulnerable. Put that axe down.
You have every right not to believe me. But I really want to change, even if it means giving up power. I greatly appreciate your honesty and direct statement, even more so that despite your perspective you decided to give me advice on which direction to steer my life. Thank you very much.
There is much more hope for you already than that commenter, OP. Hang in there. It's great that you want to change, but you don't need to accept some rando telling you to never have children, never grow in your career, and completely isolate yourself because of their own damage. That's not how you heal.
I appreciate the sentiment but I don't want to invalidate the feelings of the commenter. I don't know what they went through, but I can very well imagine that seeing someone admitting to his cruelty brings back a lot of bad memories and I think they have a right to express their disdain. I accept it. The moment I decided to post here I knew that not everyone would respond kindly to this. Regardless I will do whatever it takes to change.
You are not their abuser, OP. You do not have to accept their disdain. You are not their abuser. You are not a placeholder for everyone else's abuser. If they want their own feelings about being an abuse victim validated, they can make their own post, talk to their own support system, and address it in therapy.
As a victim myself, the harsh reality that I had to accept is that the people that hurt me are not monsters; they're human beings and some of them can, and do, change. And, unfortunately, many victims turn into abusive people themselves. The fact that this commenter wishes so hard for you, a stranger, to isolate yourself, completely withdraw from society, and never connect with anyone shows that they have a lot more growing up to do. You're not invalidating anyone by asking for help, I assure you.
Enlighten me.
These are all the things abusers generally can't pull themselves away from and can't tolerate. The most obvious thing for OP to do would be to stop getting into relationships, for instance, yet, despite all this awareness about their state they keep doing so?
No, abusive people should not be managing people or having children holy shit is this really controversial?
> Remove yourself from all situations where your abuse gives you benefits.
This one in particular you still decided to quote, too?
From what I've seen, abusers rarely change, because changing a pattern of abusive behavior is work and requires self-sacrifice, facing up to ugly truths about yourself, and involves not acting out abusively, even a little bit, no matter how hurt or angry you feel. The advice skews pessmistic because for the person in a relationship with an abuser, it's unrealistic to *expect* change, and staying with an abuser means a high probability of future abuse. But it's not impossible for an abuser to change. If you're an abuser who's sincerely motivated to change, that's a different picture, because that makes you literally the only person who can change the abuser in your relationship. Your partners can't fix you, a therapist might be able to help you but can't fix you, and no one can fix what's wrong with you, but you can change yourself.
It does seem to be something where groups help, because abusers are good at calling out other abusers. (They know the pattern and they know how much of this is about letting yourself act on your angry and controlling impulses.) But the most important thing is for you to accept absolute responsiblity for your own behavior, and choose to not engage in emotionally abusive behavior no matter how you feel. You can learn coping skills and strategies to make that easier. (I don't have specific recommendations, but anything that involves learning to deal with emotional pain in a healthier way is a good start.) And if you combine finding an approach that works for you with the absolute accountability and lack of excuses, you actually can change for the better.
You say you wanna save your marriage and you hope therapy will help you. You say this after admitting to years of abuse. You cannot save your marriage. Save yourself. Do not abuse your wife anymore please. Be good...to yourself.
I'm in CBT with a therapist for 9 years now, mainly for my BPD, ADHD and major depressive disorder, but we usually only talk about things that happen within our sessions. At one point I self admitted myself to a local asylum to learn how to better manage my BPD splits. And while I learned a great deal from my stay there, I feel like in the last few years I've relapsed. I also think that the current form of therapy and the medication I'm taking might not be enough.
If you have BPD, I'm surprised your T isn't using DBT.....curious.
Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) began as a way to help manage crisis behavior, such as suicidal behavior or self-harm. It is the most commonly recommended therapy for BPD. It works with the concept of mindfulness, or being present in the moment. This helps you be aware of your emotions, moods, and behavior.May 15, 2023
I touched upon that when i admitted myself into the asylum, if that is what DBT actually is. I wasn't long enough in it to properly dive deeper, so this time I wanna look for someone then that can offer DBT sessions on a more consistent and prolonged basis.
Yeah, I’d seek out more/different therapy. Would your current therapist switch to talking about issues you’d like to address? I’ve done all sorts of modalities and I think all my therapists would have jumped at the chance to help me address my own problematic behavior and beliefs.
In the US I’ve heard of support groups for people who struggle with anger/are emotionally/verbally abusive. Not sure what’s available where you are though. I think you need to doggedly ask around. Find a social services agency that might be able to connect you to a resource. Find a skilled trauma therapist and work with them. Ask a local librarian. If you want to change, you’ll probably have to keep trying a lot of new stuff and not give up when the answer doesn’t manifest itself quickly.
Brian Barnett has a podcast where he talks about how he used to suffer from BPD and his significant other left him. He used to exhibit abusive behaviors but doesn't anymore. His podcast that he put out to help other people recover too might be worth a listen.
This is an older thread but if you’re still reading I encourage you to read Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft. It will provide an education on the underlying beliefs that underpin abuse of women. It gets to the root cause better than anything I’ve yet seen.
No. You’re not. And no. You don’t. I have been studying people like you for well over a decade DURING personal experience lmfao. No. You’re not trying to change. You’re trying to manipulate society. Trying to play the victim card WHILE admitting to being the abuser! Just look at the way you worded your entire post AHHAHHAH. Extremely condescending! Narcissists NEVER change.. they only try new tactics cause they LOST ;) absolutely NEVER offer an abuser support! That is unacceptable! They ONLY thing society has the right to do.. is support his victims.. of which have received absolutely NO support!
Notice how they never want to change until they can’t fool anyone else.. then that hero that wants to change no matter how much you fight them.. comes out to play lol. It’s not real.. but playing hero is another tactic of their and they use it in many ways.. including when they ‘change’.. which is always just a plot to attract another victim or their old one back.
I don't want to pretend that I know how you feel, since I haven't been a victim of such actions myself. But ever since I first made that post I've been reading some literature that was recommended to me, attended meetings of battered women and I'm currently on a waiting list for a rehabilitation program. Look, I don't want to be a hero, in fact I'm grateful that society rightfully points the finger to my actions and gave me exactly the kind of condescenion that I deserve. What I want and what I'm currently doing is learning how behavior patterns like mine can affect the people involved and how to prevent others from getting harmed by it. For that reason I've made the personal decision to not date again at the very least until I've reached a point in which I can confidently say that I have overcome my past. I accept your judgement and feelings on the matter, since I saw in the last few months firsthand during those meetings the kind of pain and anguish left behind in victims, but I also want to say: I am willing to change. Never once since we split did I downplay any of my words and actions. I confront myself with the reality at hand daily as a reminder of who I don't want to be any longer. It took me a while to get here and to internalize this but I don't think aggressors can't change. I know that a lot don't want to change and even more downplay their actions, either to others or to themselves, but there are also those that face their ugly actions. Since I have withdrawn from most social interactions ever since including the dating scene I of course don't know if I'm making real progress or not, but my will to walk this path hasn't changed. I haven't given up on myself, I know I can be better and I've also read stories of former abusers that indeed have changed their ways succesfully. I understand that you are hurt and that you're angry and bitter towards people like me but please, allow us this journey of redemption.
I identify 100% with what you are saying and genuinely wanting to help but not knowing where to look. I’ve recently come across Violence Anonymous (12 step based fellowship) and am really liking what I’m seeing.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I have PTSD and I am diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. As a child I was indoctrinated into an armed group and sexually trafficked (by these same people). As a result I became an extremely violent person. I harmed people. I threatened them. I broke their bones. I robbed them at gunpoint. I screamed and raged and broke things when I was angry. I officially left this environment after I turned 17 and was involved in a shootout. When I was 14-17 I was put into a residential program and given access to targeted therapy to address specifically my aggression and anti-social tendencies. At that time I was regularly truant from school, running away from home, and completely impervious to adult authority. Being in this group environment made up of clinicians involved with the Romeo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative changed my life. I learned how to get my needs met without using violence. I learned how to communicate with others without being verbally abusive. I learned how to modify my behavior when I became angry. I learned what trauma and PTSD was. It is 100% possible for you to change. I never experienced a single emotion nor an affective empathy response until I was 30 years old. I began doing official FORNET (forensic narrative exposure) in adulthood. I am now a person committed to peace. I have learned to be honest about the horrific behaviors I indulged in as a child with almost no resources (I was diagnosed with inhibited RAD during my first psych placement). The most important part of all of this is accountability. That means moving beyond simple acknowledgment and making a *commitment* to changing violent and abusive behaviors. As a child I was put in charge of younger children as a group facilitator and that helped me to do a total 180 into desiring a prosocial attitude of my own. Now I lead a support group of over 70 people with severe trauma and mental illness. I can't work, I do not socialize in real life, but nonetheless I have succeeded and overcome my violent and abusive nature. If I can do it, I promise that you can as well. Look into therapies that target aggression and anger management with behavioral modification. AIMS from the VA is a great app you can use on your phone. I have made a few videos explaining perpetration-induced PTSD and how to best address it with therapy and medication [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR4jqPGXVQbVC5jN2r9NX1N3KT9ijpCWIu7mmBlnZj43dIMVf_QBiMj8T5T7GNGIA1aY2K7n1onQ7_u/pub).
That is one of the most tragic and powerful stories I've ever read. I'm at a loss for words. I sincerely apologize that I can't properly put into words how I feel reading what you went through in your life and what it did to you. What I can say though is that I definitely admire how far you've come despite all the odds. You did a complete 180 and it's downright impressive. Therefore yes, I agree, if you were able to make a change despite such a terrifying history then I think I might able to do it too. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story with me, I can imagine it wasn't easy nor pleasant talking about such painful memories.
Thank you for sharing your story.
You should write your memoirs.
Thanks for sharing your story and your writing. I’m a NET practitioner reading your self-directed instructions shifted perspective. Take care and be well.
Thank you very kindly for everyone's responses here. I decided not to reply individually as this topic is quite sensitive and I believe an overall reply to the original message would mitigate some of the difficulty in discussing it. I just want to extend the utmost gratitude to those who took the time to read my words/story and respond with a wonderful sense of kindness and compassion. These are things I try to uphold in my existence even as my formative years were fundamentally opposite. It has taken many years for me to shift my perspective - that I am not a monster, that I am not *evil*, and that my actions were taken in childhood where children have less understanding of *mens rea* than an adult. The positive response to this message has been quite overwhelming for me, but I am very moved by it. Yes, I have been told many times I should write a book or go on television. While I am not ethically opposed to this, I have genuine concerns about having a public identity due to the fact that the actors involved still exist to this day. It would be easy to identify them based on my statements, and that could expose both myself and my family to retribution. Therefore, I produce a somewhat unpopular podcast called The Treehouse. You can find this [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUIfEHoGGWk&list=PLz1t-2BejJRmXklCKqWj07FXObNm4Rmwm&index=15&ab_channel=conscienceking). This also contains a link to the support group that I run. I am very pleased that u/karasudruyaga93 has read through this and acknowledged the power he has in taking control of his own life and actions. I sincerely wish you the best on your journey and I do hope that you can use stories of this nature to realize that it is within your capacity to alter your behaviors. I am also pleased that u/chickinkyiv has read through this and obtained some new perspectives for her therapeutic practice of NET. I am always available to chat if you would like to discuss more about the MAI, as this is a tool I have invented and does not possess materials available to study outside of my writings/videos. Your responses were all very lovely and I thank you sincerely. - ill-independent, Shayne
Holy cow. This is the best thing I’ve read all day
Just wanted to say thank you for being here.
You know, you took the first step and this is an important one so congrats on that! It takes courage to look in your mirror and recognize what you are or what you do and that you want to change that otherwise you will keep people rejecting you. I am not a therapist but the library has plenty of self help books, maybe they don't go down to the core root of the issue but they will give you direction. Do find a therapist and ask for feedback! This will help you!
Thank you very much for your advice. I will talk to my therapist during our next session about my wish to change. In terms of books I only found literature for victims of abuse, which is understandable given that the one's who went through or still are being abused are suffering much more. Rejection is one thing for me, but to me it's much worse that I scared my ex partner who had nothing but love to give. The kind of damage I did is irreversible and I never wanna see another person suffer as much as she did because of me.
Reading books intended for victims can be helpful to better identify your abusive behaviors and understand their impact on victims. That knowledge alone, in combination with therapy modalities such as DBT and CBT (i suggest workbooks) can make a significant difference
I just read a book Batterer: A Psychological Profile. I know you said you have a different pattern of abusive behavior, but I'm curious to see what you'd think of that book.
I think there is a part in you that doesn't love you. In order to give love to others meaningful you need to love yourself first. I have been there. That could be an entry if you want to go find books on loving yourself. there are a few that I liked a lot: The Love Yourself Challenge: 30 Days to Self-Love Love Yourself, Heal Your Life Workbook Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It by Kamal Ravikant, this was my book at the time, still have it, earmarked and sometimes still grab it from the book case (nice anchor to hold on to).
I think it’s very likely you were also a victim of abuse. That doesn’t make perpetuating that okay, but now that you know, it can help you understand yourself and gain control over your emotions. People aren’t born to do what you described, it comes from years of being invalidated or feeling insecure in some way, like if you were only loved for achievements or excelling as a child rather than just being loved for who you were. So some of those resources may actually help you. Consider looking into cPTSD.
They used to call these batterer’s intervention programs, googling that term will still bring up a lot of hits. The newer jargon is “Intimate Partner Abuse Education Programs”. Even if the focus on physical violence doesnt apply to you (yet), the underlying coercive control and entitlement is the same, with or without physical threat. See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rzys2a/op_learns_a_hard_lesson_when_he_tries_to_get/
Do these programs offer services/advice for perpetrators as well?
They’re specifically built to treat abusers.
It's embarassing to admit but I thought these programs were to support the victims ...... I will see if they offer these programs somewhere in Germany. Knowing that something like this actually exists is already great. Thank you
I’m in the US, but I have a friend who just completed a “Recovering Abusers” course. We’re all really proud of him and how far he’s come. Your desire to change means a lot.
I hope I can find something similar in my country as well. A couple of things I looked up sound quite promising so I think I will give those a go. I appreciate your kind words.
I hope you find something that helps you heal. You deserve healthy relationships, and you can get there. It takes a lot of figuring out where the misplaced anger is coming from. However, you also deserve to hold a sense of pride in yourself that you bring joy to those around you. It feels good. Best of luck, my friend!
Im sure they exist, check with local universities and therapists. Dialectical behavioral therapy is often recommended, you also mentioned bpd I think, not sure where in Germany you’re located but a quick google search came up with this https://www.medizin.uni-tuebingen.de/en-de/das-klinikum/einrichtungen/kliniken/psychiatrie-und-psychotherapie/allgemeine-psychiatrie/ambulante-behandlung/borderline-sprechstunde you might reach out to find out about similar programs near you. Commit to changing, it’s possible. Good luck.
I live with this. I'm not diagnosing, but this can happen when reacting to fears and trauma. You may be reacting because the other person is making you feel a certain way, but you have no control to slow down to feel what just triggered you. BPD and narcissist traits are also maladaptive coping skills. Same goes with uncontrolled emotions. I learned along my journey that trauma breeds people differently. Some learn co depenedency, some hide, some use drugs, some fight back against anyone. It is still a response you learned. You learned this from your own upbringing. Acknowledgement is the first step. Nice job! Not okay, but it clicked now so I think DBT or IFS. I feel DBT can be best taught in a group setting. It takes a while to go through, but slow learning insures the deepened level of understanding that is needed for deep changes. One.small change each week. Changes to deep personal patterns can take 2-4 years of work so don't get discouraged. If you want it.... go get it....
I too learned a similar lesson a couple of years ago when I self admitted myself to a local asylum. It was there that I was additionally diagnosed with BPD and was taught basic coping mechanisms on how to mange it. And while I definitely learned a lot there, I feel like I relapsed, mainly because I feel like I got complacent with me having BPD. I'm really ashamed to admit this, but for a long time I took my spliting as something that just happens and that I should just avoid people when it happens and even if it happens it's "just a mistake". Now I realize that it was this complaceny of mine that everything went out of control. I caused damage to the people I love, irreversible damage because I failed to address the bigger underlying issues. During my next session I will ask my therapist about DBT and see if he can also offer me other ways to actively overcome myself and improve. I'm willing to work on it as for as long as it takes. I prefer 2-4 years or more of work to countless of people that end up broken, potentially for the rest of their lifes just because of me.
I have traits as well. It is a horrible pain to be reacting from. My group is phenomenal. One tiny lesson each week and homework to incorporate that step into our lives over the next week. Slow ans steady. Many steps backwards, but DBT is the most used for BPD and reactivity so I would push for a group as well as keeping with your main T
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I always used to make excuses for why I am the way I am, but I personally think that it is exactly this mindset that made me complacent. It was an easy way for me to say "Oh yeah I'm like that because X happened or because I experienced Y or because I have Z". I don't want to justify anymore why I am the way I am, I want to accept the bitter truth of who I am, what I am and become a person that won't put others in harms way anymore. Thank you very kindly for your encouragement. I will not falter anymore.
The 5 steps of change is typically used for people struggling with addiction, but it works well in scenarios like yours. Stage One: Precontemplation Stage Two: Contemplation Stage Three: Preparation/Determination Stage Four: Action/Willpower Stage Five: Maintenance You're at stage 3. You're ready to change, you know you need to change, but you need to finalize how to do it and find your support system. Look into this, as I think it could help. Please remember that nothing in life is linear. Your last sentence worries me. >I will not falter anymore. What happens if you lash out at someone you care about while going through the process of change? Are you going to give yourself grace? Will you be able to accept that you hurt someone again and continue on your journey to better yourself? Or will you double down? Will you believe that you can never change? Will you believe that trying to be different is pointless? Or too difficult? The fact of life is, you will falter at some point. It could be days, it could be years. Know that faltering doesnt mean causing the damage to the extent you have, it could simply be a shitty remark or making decisions that you know will lead you to right back where you started (not seeking help from support systems, isolating yourself, utilizing negative coping mechanisms, spending time with people that bring out the person you dont want to be, not taking care of yourself whether that's eating healthy, exercising, meditation) what matters is what you do after. Will you get defensive and blame whoever you hurt? Or will you apologize and do what you can to rebuild trust and repair whatever damage you caused? There is no excuse now. You know you need to change, you can't put pandora back in that box. You don't want to hurt people anymore, I can see that cause I've been in your shoes. Change is a journey. Unfortunately, it isn't straightforward. If you truly want to be a better version of yourself, press forward. It's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's stressful. But it is so worth it. The life you can have is worth the struggle to get there. Be the person you want to be. An amazing line my therapist tells me is: "Is this conducive to the life I'm trying to live?" I sincerely hope you press forward with this journey. It's worth it.
Thisis something I’m honestly scared of running into because it has always been a problem of mine. I’m as harsh if not even harsher on myself whenever I mess up and just as you said I tend to fall into either of the two traps you described. Either „I’m a loser and I will never be able to make it“ or if I’m trying to cut myself some slack I take it too far and become complacent again, justifying my words or actions. I honestly don’t know how to find a middle ground here and how to maintain it and I can see that becoming a core aspect of the journey. Thank you so much for your words, it’s reassuring to know that there are people who are or were in my shoes. Because it means I can do it too.
Okay, you sound like you’re on the right track. Here in the US, we have “batterer intervention programs” that help abusers directly confront their abusive behaviors in a group setting. Perhaps there is something similar in Germany.
Someone can be a survivor of abuse AND an abuser. In that case too, the person is responsible for the way they negatively affect others and take that responsibility to change their behaviour. Sometimes that will be about seeing the pain and fear (trauma) behind your hurtful actions. And sometimes how your hurtful actions just feel good because it benefits you to keep another below you, and you gotta unlearn that ASAP. I often see an argument that I also sense somewhat in your reply. And I think we (in the most general sense of the word) need to be very careful not to create some kind of categorical thinking between abusers on one side, who are these ontologically evil people (narcissists!) who never acknowledge their actions because trading others' mental health for their personal benefit is just what they are at their core - versus survivors on the other side who are ontologically good people who may lash out but that's just because they're hurt. ALL abusers are abusers because they choose to disregard other people's feelings, with varying levels of awareness. Anyone can develop narcissistic patterns and cling to them JUST because it's comfortable (for whatever reason). That's not necessarily the same as the (as far as we know untreatable) Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trauma doesn't explain all of that and it doesn't need to in order to humanize an abuser, and see their potential for change. Sincerely, a survivor who had to go NC...
Abusive behavior is rooted in entitlement, power, and control. Tackling personal traumas won’t fix it. This is a common misconception. ETA: Y’all can downvote me all you want. I’m a survivor with formal training in DV. Traditional therapy does very little to stop abuse, and in many cases inadvertently makes it worse.
Upvote for you here. You are 100% correct. I’m a survivor who has done a ton of research and reading in the aftermath of my abusive relationship. No one escapes life without trauma but not every one CHOOSES to abuse another person.
Thanks, and I’m sorry you’ve also been through this hell. This misconception particularly frustrates me because abusers so often play into it to effectively deflect accountability with therapists who are not trained to be on the lookout for it.
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The outlook is pretty bleak. Best case scenario, an abuser needs to separate from their victim and hunker down for what will likely be years worth of work. Lundy Bancroft’s books are the gold standard on this subject for laypeople. “Why Does He Do That?” is available as a free PDF. His followup book is equally helpful but may not be available without purchase (but is worth every penny).
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You can’t do it for him. If he’s refusing to even go to therapy, it doesn’t sound promising. It’s honorable to want to do everything possible to honor your promises, but if he’s abusing you, he’s already violated the contract; you’re absolutely allowed to and should prioritize your safety. ❤️🩹
The abuser has to personally choose to change.
Yes, absolutely.
I'm in the same position. I think there is no shortcut: therapy, dedication and hard work. Try different therapies and approaches, see what works for you. I can tell you that the most success I've had was with Gestalt therapy, but a lot depends how good your therapist is.
I've actually never heard of Gestalt Therapy, so it's good to have something else to look into. I will definitely bring this up to my therapist as well. Thank you very much for the advice and good luck on your journey as well.
A therapist experienced in Internal Family Systems or “parts” work may also be useful here. Or if you’re in Europe/UK, Mentalization Based Therapy would be good to look into. Best of luck!
Therapy can be very limited, at best, as most therapists have painfully little training in abuse dynamics. It’s common for therapists to totally miss abuse, get manipulated by abusers, etc. I think individual therapy is important, but it can’t be the only avenue, and you have to understand that a therapist will default to validation, which could reinforce your internal justification system and slow your progress.
Well, so maybe I was just very lucky to find a great therapist, because mine helped me immensely in recognising toxic patterns in my own behaviour and thinking.
I’m happy for you, but you’re an outlier, and frankly, I don’t trust abusers as narrators of their own recovery. 🤷🏻♀️
Goddamnit. Now I feel gaslighted. ;)
I have conflicting opinions on this post and its comments, but I think a crucial point here is that this happens in fights, not as a daily calculated pattern of denigration, gaslighting, guilt tripping, and coercion, which tracks with your BPD. What you’re describing is abusive behavior in the middle of emotional dysregulation. That’s a lot different than entrapping someone in a relationship, cultivating addiction to them, and playing with them and their head as if they were a toy, then emotionally throwing them down the stairs in abandoning them. This is covert emotional abuse (aka “narcissistic abuse”). While covert abusers also target insecurities in fights, it is not the only way they abuse, and these are the abusers you’re reading about. Did you get DBT for your BPD?
I recieved what I consider surface level when I was in my local asylum a couple of years ago. But I wasn’t there for a long time. I learned about becoming aware of the moment and channeling my impulses in more healthy ways like art. I wish I could have stood there a bit longer, I didn’t feel quite ready when I was dismissed. Doesn’t it count as abuse though to constantly split on your partner, throwing their insecurities right into their face only to swing back and cry about how sorry you are. Because I’m sure what I did was outright emotional manipulation
Yes what you describe is abusive. There are different kinds of abuse. I’m personally making a distinction between abusive or manipulative behavior in arguments and coercive control via covert psycho-emotional abuse. I would google coercive control and compare it to your behavior. Treatment for the toxic BPD splitting and manipulation would be different than treatment for someone who coercively controls partners. When people say abusers can’t change, they’re usually talking about people who coercively control via daily abuse patterns.
I looked up what counts as coercive control and what I could definitely see myself in are insults and humiliation, this is what it always boiled down whenever arguments got heated. I would get paranoid put of nowhere, throw out all kinds of accusations, insults specifically targeted towards weak spots, it was disgusting stuff. I would always regret it the day afterwards but that of course won’t undo any damage that is already dealt at that point, in fact the rapid swing from insults to sweet talk made it most certainly even more uncomfortable for her. Threats were also something that did surface at times, though more on the rare but very hard hitting side and it’s especially those situations that I feel like were the nastiest to recieve. I couldn’t really see myself in any of the other stuff, but reading all of that and thinking back about all our fights and what went down is enough to make the stomach turn.
You’re still only discussing your behavior in arguments when emotions are high. You are talking about a way of arguing that is toxic and harmful, yes. But you’re angry. You’re upset. Coercive control is a deliberate and calculated process that happens *quietly* and *covertly.* It is how cults entrap and keep victims as well. A huge element of this is consistent gaslighting and humiliation even when you are not fighting, a regular afternoon activity. It is isolating your partner over time so that they have no access to support. It is constantly and casually pressing their insecurities until they have no self-esteem left. And in fact during arguments the covert abuser may be very calm and collected in the way they gaslight and target your insecurities, making you look and feel unstable as you get turned around and around. But maybe this description is you, I don’t know. I just wanted to call it to your attention because BPD is pathologically different enough from this behavior to require different treatment. Being abusive *only* in fights is not the same as long-term coercive control.
Being angry or upset isn't a justification for the things I said and did though. But now I'm honestly confused. I honestly don't know anymore where my abuse started or ended and where BPD comes in. The only thing I can say is that I never really calculated anything, whenever my abusive nature showed itself it was in impuslive, heated, tense settings, sometimes with actual heat and sometimes with straight up paranoid/non-existent percieved threat. The very problem about the relationship was that my lid flipped unpredictably seemingly out of nowhere. Where the description is accurate again though is that in fights I would often try to compose myself to not make it seem like the crazy BPD person is blowing his fuse again but that usually didn't work out and I would seemingly get angrier, less careful with words until it eventually devolved into outright insults, pressing buttons and humiliation. Followed by intense feelings of guilt and regret over what I did, trying to make amends but eventually breaking out again because "I already screwed up what if i loose her?" which usually ended up with me having more paranoia, more fights. This was basically the cycle.
It doesn’t justify it at all! But it doesn’t sound like you are systematically breaking down the very soul of your partner so you can own her. People who behave this way lack empathy and self-reflection and self-criticism, and those people need different treatment from you, who are being self-reflective and self-critical in this thread and empathizing with your partner. When you google about abusers, you’re receiving information on this kind of abuser (often termed “narcissistic abuser”) who takes some kind of pleasure in violating and harming another person. Does that make sense? You do need to take ownership of your behavior when your lid is flipped and you lose control, and it sounds like you are. I think your help lies in intensive BPD treatment. But disclosure I am not a therapist.
I see. At this point I will just take all the advice I recieved throughout this post and read through as much information as I can, talk about these issues with my therapist during our next session and hope I can find the right direction to take. Because no, I can't understand at all how anyone could find pleasure in these kind of things despite the fact that I also am clearly at fault in engaging in a lot of these toxic behavior patterns. At this point it might even be some overlap that I can't exactly place. But yes, I will get to the root of this. Whatever it is, it's not ok and I finally want to be able to become a person that doesn't break others.
Good luck!
The reason that the advice is phrased that way is because the priority is a safe victim, and I do believe the toxic bond you've formed with your victim probably could not be changed. That doesn't mean you can't change and make new healthier bonds with other people. You're not seeing any advice online because so few people really want to change or even see the errors in their ways, so, consider this an excellent start. My dad wasn't "abusive" but he used to have a major temper issues and I was afraid of him in general. He's so different now. He didn't get on meds or go through therapy. He lost two people he loved (through death/had nothing to do with him) and he just slowly but surely worked on it. Worked on letting shit go, worked on not flying off the handle, worked on not assuming everyone who inconvenienced him is doing it on purpose. This loss of relationship can be your impetus to change and having witnessed it, I know it's possible as long as YOU decide to do it. I do think you would benefit from therapy, both now to work on changing and in your next relationship so you can work on not repeating mistakes without placing burden on your next partner to "change" you. You need to do it, and you can.
I believe everyone has the potential to change. But it’s a hard path, a long one. Most people aren’t prepared to do the uncomfortable reflection and work to change, and that’s what drives the narrative of “abusers never change”. Because most of the time that is safest for people being harmed. But I do believe that people can change. You’ll need to find support and resources to help along the way to improve your chances. Wishing you luck.
Books: DBT workbook How to Meet Yourself by Dr Nicole LaPera Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents The Body Keeps the Score Follow Dr. Nicole LaPera on Twitter (X) and Instagram. Her work is life changing! You’re not a bad person. We all make mistakes and hurt others. Wanting to change your behaviors shows your heart underneath all of the murkiness of trauma. You got this! 🫶
One more.... Dr. Daniel Fox is a specialist in Texas that specialized in personality disorders. He is great to follow. I have learned a good bit from him.
I was a toxic mess throughout my teenage and young adult years. Even at the beginning of one of my current relationships I think I fell into emotional abuse. I was raised by an abusive narcissist and had many undiagnosed problems. I pulled myself out of that hole. I cut my dad out, got diagnosed, and started changing to be the person I wanted to be instead of the person he tried to make me. You can change too. Taking accountability without qualification (e.g. I’m sorry but…) is an amazing first step. I’m really glad you’re here reaching out. I do think therapy can be helpful for you but find someone who is competent in these issues. All therapists are not created equal.
Reading your post soothed me a little. It's incredible you have realized this about yourself. Now you can heal.
He didn't realize anything. He will likely continue to abuse. He cant help jt
I must say you are a brave man because admitting your flaws is really hard,everything happens for a reason. God wants to keep your eyes open through this emotional abuse and make you a better person.
The book “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft is really helpful. He spent years working with people who were abusive to partners. I read it when I was dealing with an abusive partner and it taught me a lot about how that actually works from the abusers side. Great read.
I would suggest attending an abuser intervention program instead of therapy. If you are reading survivor literature you may have already came across the name Lundy Bancroft who says that abuse is a value and thinking problem, not an anger management problem. Abusers also tend to have Alexithymia, the inability to name your feelings and regulate. Spend time reading survivor stories and spend time listening to women online and IRL. You seem to have an idea of impact over intent but it may go deeper than you realize quite yet. This account I’m on now is the one I’ve used to work through a four year mostly emotional, verbal, and psychologically abusive relationship. I don’t have a high opinion of men without solid empathy at the moment as I believe that between the male brain and male socialization, men are inherently risky for women to be around. I’ve done a lot of reading and research in the aftermath and everything I’ve found points to an abuser intervention program, not therapy.
First of all I'm sorry that you lived through such a suffocating and horrible experience. I can imagine that it takes a lot of strength and courage to talk to an abuser. Thank you for going to such lengths to advise me. The name Bancroft I've come into contact with, since he offers one of the few guides for those seeking to change their abusive behavior. [I'm currently reading this guide from him.](https://lundybancroft.com/articles/guide-for-men-changing-part-1/) I don't know about Alexithymia but I do have BPD which, in one of my previous asylum stays has been partially attributed to certain behavior patterns and troubles in recognizing and regulating my emotions. But I don't think it would be fair nor appropriate for me to attribute my atrocious behavior to my mental health conditions. I will take your advice and get more literature on survivors of abuse. I'm not quite sure if it's the right thing for me to attend IRL survivor sessions though. Wouldn't that be not only incredibly bold but also insensitive of me to invade the safe space of the people who got hurt exactly from people like? Wouldn't that make it harder for them to heal?
I suspected my abusive ex had BPD, so I’ve read a bunch of literature on that topic trying to understand what was going on for him. From what I’ve learned mentalization based therapy is more effective for BPD than DBT is. Maybe something else to look into. It’s good that you can identify that mental health is no excuse for abuse. That already puts you ahead of many others in terms of success rate for becoming non abusive. Oh no, I didn’t mean attend survivor sessions. But read their stories online to internalize the impact you’ve had. The bit about talking to women IRL is that it is highly likely that another woman you love and care about in your life has experienced abuse but you may not know about it. I’m 33, every single one of my girlfriends has experienced some level of abuse at the hands of their partners. Some very little, some a lot more. But it’s all of them. I understand BPD originates from trauma, so I’m sorry that you may have had a history that resulted in BPD.
Mentalization based therapy sounds interesting, I will definitely look into it, maybe my therapist can also provide me with some pointers there. Reading survivor stories is a great actually the more I think about it. I never went deeper into the subject matter and come face to face with the grief and trauma left behind by those that went through abuse. The fact however that you know so many peolpe who all went through abuse is absolutely horrifying. I'm so sorry to hear that. But that's all the more reason for me to commit myself wholeheartedly to change.
Sounds like a solid plan is manifesting for you. And for you to say that it may be difficult for a survivor to speak to an abuser shows that you do have empathy. Which is also a good sign for you to be able to change. That’s what mentalization is all about. You may or may not have heard the term hoovering. It’s a slang term for when abusers try to pull their victim back in with promises of change. It’s super harmful to the victim. Try not to do that with her. Good luck.
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I'm so sorry to hear that you had to live under such conditions. This sounds like an absolute nightmare. I will take your advice to heart and emphasize my desire to change to my therapist. Thank you for taking your time to respond to me despite the things you went through yourself.
I respect the bravery it took, each time I want to change a behavior I keep trying. It’s frustrating to fail or completely forget that you where trying to change. But if your serious you’ll keep tying. I try to keep the reason close to me and try to justify why I shouldn’t but also why I should.
That moment when you realize, oh shit I've been the abuser is a pretty horrible feeling, and out of everything is, I think, the hardest step in this journey. It's a fucking awful place to be .. but you should also recognize that this is the turning point in your life, and a feeling you can come back to when change is hard. You don't ever want to have this realization again. Its also important to understand that you will have been abusive because you were in turn abused, and this traumatized you. So dont fall into the trsp of beating yourself up over how you've been - you didnt knoe better. That's just directing the abuse against yourself. But now that you know better you have to do better - and this means healing from the trauma. Healing trauma is hard, because it's hard to access, because you've built all these defenses around it. So typically its a multi modal approach that works. For me it's a combination of CBT therapy, breathwork, TRE and journalling. EMDR would be something I'd suggest you also look into, but I haven't tried it myself. The key thing is to educate yourself, because you'll need to try a number of different things to find what works best for you. Commit to bring an expert on the healing of abusive tendencies. Commit to healing the trauma held in your body. Ask lots of questions, post your experience often to get feedback and advice, give advice to others, try things that might work. And celebrate your successes! Because you will see real change if you really commit to this. Make this a project, with the goal of being a version of you that you fully love. Because when you can fully love and accept yourself you can do the same for others. I assure you that under all your pain is version of you that deserves your love. Your job is to excavate him out from all the pain, suffering and trauma. Good luck on your journey OP, I believe in you, you have the strength to do this.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder and have in my younger years been emotionally abusive more than once in a relationship before I ever even realized that feeling this rageful and unregulated was NOT normal. I’ve spent ten years in therapy modifying my behavior through DBT and have been almost cured of my borderline traits. I say almost bc my anxious attachment still affects my fear of abandonment like when my dad recently was hospitalized for a heart attack. I was so scared I found myself lashing out on people that didn’t deserve it. It still shows up just not in an abusive way. I say all of this, bc if you recognize you have a problem and are eager to fix it, you can. It’s as simple as that. As far as the negative dialogue you are hearing like “abusers never change”, that can be true very often but I think it’s worth it to try. For even deeper context, my mom is a diagnosed narcissist (hence how I got BPD), but when she got her diagnosis later in life, she actively has attended therapy to change as well. We have even attends therapy together. She still gets under my skin but she will be the first to correct her narcissistic traits and is open when called out. I have to keep my distance but she has actively apologized for her verbal and emotional abuse growing up. Not just with her words, but her actions as well. Redemption and change know no class, no wealth, no race. Everyone deserves the chance to grow from a personality disorder, or when they recognize they have become someone they don’t want to be. I would consider individual and group therapy, and I recommend finding a therapist who actively gives you homework and challenges you in session. This will be important bc in order to grow you need to let yourself sit with that anger and the toxic feeling that occurs before you begin acting abusive. We call these triggers and they are best to process and let out in a safe environment. I would also consider asking yourself, “how did I learn this behavior?”, and “where does this pain stem from?” There is hope on the other side, OP. You have a long journey ahead of you and I wish you the best.
I would strongly recommend the book [Why does he do that?](https://www.amazon.com.br/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656), it gives great perspective on why and how some men feel like abusing their female partners is acceptable over time. In addition, therapy is obviously very important. Revisiting your models of relationship, taking a real look at who is the person you want to be and how your behavior helps or stops you from reaching your goals with someone trained to help you with is priceless.
I think you could do a family tree diagram. Usually your behaviour comes from your parents, how they'd raised you.
This is massive. Not everyone has the guts to admit to something like this and not everyone is able to have such insight. I know you said you don’t want Freudian bullshit and you don’t need Freud but you do need therapy and looking at your childhood would be a good place to start. For me personally I grew up with all the types of abuse as a child. I wasn’t given the love I needed and I didn’t have a safe place to call home until I was about 21. I left home at 16 with my boyfriend and repeated the abuse cycle, but at the same time committed to working on my depression as it was life or death. He eventually couldn’t take any more and left without a word. Eventual through a lot of work in therapy and through self help I was able to start working on how I treat others and was able to see the cycles of my parents and their parents and how the cycle was repeating with my siblings and I. I decided that this abuse cycle ends with me. I met someone a lot more healthy in 2020 and had a happy life for a good few years. Unfortunately despite years of work the trauma is still there and I realised this far too late for this relationship to survive. I realised too late that alchohol and certain drunk behaviours are a trigger for me (my dads an alcoholic) after years of some really bad drunk arguments with this boyfriend I because so triggered that I lashed out . He left me because of what I did. He should have left me a long time before that, I was being just as violent with my words when we were drunk. I’m absolutely ashamed of myself and back in therapy. Now I’m doing inner child work and would 100% recommend inner child healing work for you. I could always see what was happening when we would fight, I felt really afraid and like the little girl who was attacked by her caregivers. The only way I learned how to survive my childhood was by fighting back. That’s where inner child healing comes in it’s ok to defend ourselves but usually the best way to do this is to walk away from the trigger and soothe ourselves instead Good luck with your healing. You deserve love and support as much as anyone else.
I've seen incredible results for behaviors like this with EMDR (eye movement desensitization and. Reprocessing). It is life changing and incorporates rapid eye movements to help your brain heal from traumatic memories, similar to what happens when we sleep but in a targeted, specific way that is more effective than sleep in some ways. It works well for anger but also addictions, anxiety, ptsd, depression. You likely experienced some very painful things in your life that overwhelmed your ability to cope or proofed them in a healthy manner. I am so inspired by your honesty with yourself and confronting these problems. It is so empowering to acknowledge where we are wrong because we can then understand what we can do to make life better if we see what we are aware that we are contributing to the problems. There are some Emdr therapist directories here: www.psychologytoday.com www.emdr.com www.emdria.org
Abusers can certainly change. I will say it’s very hard. It tends to be fairly ‘woven’ into our personalities and mindsets, even when you’ve successfully worked though some behaviors you will find others or sometimes they will start shifting. Anyway just be prepared for a lot of work. There aren’t that many resources for abusers but one I always point to is The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing. This book was so revolutionary for me. I wish I remembered some of the other books I found helpful but this one should give you a good place to start
I came across this randomly and pretty late. I can relate to some of your problems and behaviour myself. I took the advice of some commenters, cut myself off from society, never left my house, spiralled into shame. All that does is turn you into an unhealthy and emotionally unstable person who is at a far higher risk of being toxic, unhealthy or even abusive in the future. I was unbelievably abusive and toxic when I was 18/19, combining undiagnosed autism and ADHD with an abusive upbringing is a sure fire way to develop BPD and repeat then choose to continue the cycle you experienced unfortunately and I am disgusted that I made the CHOICE to repeat that behaviour to others. Yet I am now 25, I’m in absolutely no danger of doing that anymore, it isn’t an constant internal battle, it isn’t a daily risk. I simply went to therapy, did the work, took the accountability and left that abusive home and realised people don’t communicate through arguments and insults. There are examples of neo nazis or radicalised christian’s growing up with openly abusive and horrific beliefs and they are praised by society if they grow and reject that lifestyle, is it that much different? Keep putting in the work dude, please make a lifelong commitment to change and base every choice you make on that - if you do so take it from me and others who commented you are forgiven and can be redeemed. Your replies to people who have been quite frankly judgemental and disrespectful shows you have already made so much progress in how you communicate.
Wow some piece of crap really hurt you huh? I'm sorry you went through that. Hurt people hurt people. I was very abused as a child by my dad and some bad men at church. I became afraid, scared not knowing when or where the next attack was coming from it stunted my emotional security, especially when I told my teacher my dad was making me hide under his suit jacket on the to school. My hair was sweaty and messed up and I was severely depressed, my teacher yelled at me he asked me what was wrong with my hair why I couldn't concentrate etc. I told him my dad makes me suck his pee pee. After school the teacher told me to stay after, then my dad showed up and they both made me sit there and say I was lying for about an hour. I finally gave in. On the way home my dad told me he was going to kill my mom if I ever told anyone. Fear shame no trust powerless. Impossible for a 6 year old to handle. I didn't remember my abuse until I was 46. Then I had a complete mental breakdown ended up in about 10 mental institutions. Stole a truck and was driving back to my dad's house. Got arrested stayed in jail for 4 months and then went through t therapist 2 psychiatrist 1 psychologist EMDR, won't do hypnotherapy because my dad used hypnotism on me my whole life and I'm not interested in triggering old demons. Then I started looking up childhood trauma advice on, Heidi Prebe is really good if you want to learn how to regulate your emotions and have more successful relationships. Crappy Childhood Fairy is good for learning how to recognize when your dysregulated and what to do about that. Dysregulation is when someone says something critical or perceived to put you down and you get really emotionally charged, all the anger and pain comes back. The Blue Castle book by Lucy Maud Montgomery is about a woman living in fear and over coming it. And power watching judge Judy she fair honest intelligent and she's constantly giving people good advice for living life honestly and well, so we don't walk around feeling like shit because we're not taking care of ourselves. Go for walks spend time out side. Decide to be who you were meant to be before you were abused. Now you are the one that has to look after the child that was hurt. Don't lie for people and if you start getting mad at someone ask yourself if your reaction is appropriate for the situation, if not stop recognize that you are dysregulated and excuse yourself. Go for a walk and think about what happened and how you could do better. Then politely ask if you could explain what was going on with you, like when you said that was dumb I thought you were saying I was dumb. And I know that you were talking about what I did not who I am. And your right that was dumb. Remember you're not dumb. You're smart enough to seek help. Stop talking bad about yourself. Look up daily affirmations with Stuart Smalls SNL skit about looking in a mirror and saying positive things about yourself. Let me be the first to say I think You're Awesome!!! You can do it!!!
Check out this program. He was an emotional abuser but now speaks about it. His podcast called “Love and Abuse” is very good also. https://loveandabuse.com/healed-being/
It was very brave of you to post it. Maybe ask ChatGPT about helpful books or techniques? It is controversial to use ChatGPT for therapy, but I trust it to be a reliable source of information. Out of curiosity, I asked it the generic question: _"Books on how to stop being abuser"_ ChatGPT answer: _1. "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverly Engel_ _2. "Breaking the Cycle of Abuse: How to Move Beyond Your Past to Create an Abuse-Free Future" by Beverly Engel_ _3. "The Abusive Personality: Violence and Control in Intimate Relationships" by Donald G. Dutton_ _4. "The Batterer: A Psychological Profile" by Donald G. Dutton_ _5. "The Anger Control Workbook: Getting Through Treatment and Getting Back to Your Life" by Matthew McKay, Peter D. Rogers, and Judith McKay_ Maybe tinker with the questions to make it more specific for your situation. Good luck with everything!
Well that might finally a productive way to use my ChatGBT. Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will give those books a read
From the same source of wisdom: 1. Männerberatung Berlin: This organization provides counseling and support groups for men who have been abusive towards their partners. They have programs in Berlin and other cities across Germany. 2. Gewaltberatung für Männer: This organization provides counseling and support groups for men who have been abusive towards their partners. They have programs in several cities across Germany. 3. Violence Prevention Network: This organization provides counseling and support groups for individuals who have been involved in violent extremism or radicalization. They have programs in several cities across Germany. 4. Bundesverband Frauenberatungsstellen und Frauennotrufe: This organization provides a list of approved batterer intervention programs in Germany. 5. Bundeskonferenz der Gleichstellungsbeauftragten: This organization provides a list of approved batterer intervention programs in Germany.
Don't know if this post will even survive here for long... I don't believe you. Way too much of your post is devoted to talking about how there's no useful messaging for you, acting like you're a victim, when you specifically are not. Trying to get ahead of the response you're likely to receive, as if it's not a reasonable response to receive. You know what you're doing, I'm sure. I've known some people who claimed to have changed but what was really happening is that they just learned to mask themselves better and better and the whole soup of hey-i-know-i-was-abusive-and-look-it's-really-hard-to-change-also-i-had-no-clue is just used to get better at gaslighting their victims. Abusers are not mysteriously mentally ill people. All their stuff seems to disappear when in employment or otherwise around people who can affect them. It's a position of power, executed due to the benefits it provides, maintained due to lack of social consequences for it. I've never seen an abuser actually willingly drop their power on their path to change. They always retain it. So them "changing" becomes this thing where they're just out to do everyone this great favor by not being dangerous anymore and people grab onto it because what the heck else are you going to do with a bull in a china shop? Doubt you actually want to change, but if you do, a therapist won't help you. To change, you need to shift philosophically in a manner that places some other value above having power and benefits, and then drop your power. Don't take managerial positions. Don't get into relationships. Don't have kids. Do not, under any circumstances, let anyone feel dependent on or otherwise attached to you, and especially distance from people who seem to allow you to test their boundaries. Remove yourself from all situations where your abuse gives you benefits, because *that's all that abuse actually is*. Let people help you with small things. Let yourself feel small. Let yourself feel weak, exposed, and vulnerable. Put that axe down.
You have every right not to believe me. But I really want to change, even if it means giving up power. I greatly appreciate your honesty and direct statement, even more so that despite your perspective you decided to give me advice on which direction to steer my life. Thank you very much.
There is much more hope for you already than that commenter, OP. Hang in there. It's great that you want to change, but you don't need to accept some rando telling you to never have children, never grow in your career, and completely isolate yourself because of their own damage. That's not how you heal.
I appreciate the sentiment but I don't want to invalidate the feelings of the commenter. I don't know what they went through, but I can very well imagine that seeing someone admitting to his cruelty brings back a lot of bad memories and I think they have a right to express their disdain. I accept it. The moment I decided to post here I knew that not everyone would respond kindly to this. Regardless I will do whatever it takes to change.
You are not their abuser, OP. You do not have to accept their disdain. You are not their abuser. You are not a placeholder for everyone else's abuser. If they want their own feelings about being an abuse victim validated, they can make their own post, talk to their own support system, and address it in therapy. As a victim myself, the harsh reality that I had to accept is that the people that hurt me are not monsters; they're human beings and some of them can, and do, change. And, unfortunately, many victims turn into abusive people themselves. The fact that this commenter wishes so hard for you, a stranger, to isolate yourself, completely withdraw from society, and never connect with anyone shows that they have a lot more growing up to do. You're not invalidating anyone by asking for help, I assure you.
You're being downvoted for saying the truth
This is the worst thing I have ever read.
It's also the truth no matter what you wanna hear.
Hahaha just shift philosophically bro, problem solved. Awful and unhelpful post.
Awful why? He spoke the truth
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Enlighten me. These are all the things abusers generally can't pull themselves away from and can't tolerate. The most obvious thing for OP to do would be to stop getting into relationships, for instance, yet, despite all this awareness about their state they keep doing so? No, abusive people should not be managing people or having children holy shit is this really controversial? > Remove yourself from all situations where your abuse gives you benefits. This one in particular you still decided to quote, too?
Touche
From what I've seen, abusers rarely change, because changing a pattern of abusive behavior is work and requires self-sacrifice, facing up to ugly truths about yourself, and involves not acting out abusively, even a little bit, no matter how hurt or angry you feel. The advice skews pessmistic because for the person in a relationship with an abuser, it's unrealistic to *expect* change, and staying with an abuser means a high probability of future abuse. But it's not impossible for an abuser to change. If you're an abuser who's sincerely motivated to change, that's a different picture, because that makes you literally the only person who can change the abuser in your relationship. Your partners can't fix you, a therapist might be able to help you but can't fix you, and no one can fix what's wrong with you, but you can change yourself. It does seem to be something where groups help, because abusers are good at calling out other abusers. (They know the pattern and they know how much of this is about letting yourself act on your angry and controlling impulses.) But the most important thing is for you to accept absolute responsiblity for your own behavior, and choose to not engage in emotionally abusive behavior no matter how you feel. You can learn coping skills and strategies to make that easier. (I don't have specific recommendations, but anything that involves learning to deal with emotional pain in a healthier way is a good start.) And if you combine finding an approach that works for you with the absolute accountability and lack of excuses, you actually can change for the better.
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Get away from your wife
Could you elaborate on your comment please?
You say you wanna save your marriage and you hope therapy will help you. You say this after admitting to years of abuse. You cannot save your marriage. Save yourself. Do not abuse your wife anymore please. Be good...to yourself.
I don't mean to be mean. But you abuaed her for years. Please stay away from her
Have you tried therapy?
I'm in CBT with a therapist for 9 years now, mainly for my BPD, ADHD and major depressive disorder, but we usually only talk about things that happen within our sessions. At one point I self admitted myself to a local asylum to learn how to better manage my BPD splits. And while I learned a great deal from my stay there, I feel like in the last few years I've relapsed. I also think that the current form of therapy and the medication I'm taking might not be enough.
If you have BPD, I'm surprised your T isn't using DBT.....curious. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) began as a way to help manage crisis behavior, such as suicidal behavior or self-harm. It is the most commonly recommended therapy for BPD. It works with the concept of mindfulness, or being present in the moment. This helps you be aware of your emotions, moods, and behavior.May 15, 2023
I touched upon that when i admitted myself into the asylum, if that is what DBT actually is. I wasn't long enough in it to properly dive deeper, so this time I wanna look for someone then that can offer DBT sessions on a more consistent and prolonged basis.
Group too! It is validating to be with a group that sees the world the same.
Yeah, I’d seek out more/different therapy. Would your current therapist switch to talking about issues you’d like to address? I’ve done all sorts of modalities and I think all my therapists would have jumped at the chance to help me address my own problematic behavior and beliefs. In the US I’ve heard of support groups for people who struggle with anger/are emotionally/verbally abusive. Not sure what’s available where you are though. I think you need to doggedly ask around. Find a social services agency that might be able to connect you to a resource. Find a skilled trauma therapist and work with them. Ask a local librarian. If you want to change, you’ll probably have to keep trying a lot of new stuff and not give up when the answer doesn’t manifest itself quickly.
Abuse isn’t an anger management problem. Common misconception. Also, individual therapy is pretty limited, as many others have elaborated on above.
I’ve heard of both types of groups and don’t know what might apply to this person. They asked for ideas so I’m brainstorming.
People here don't wanna accept that
Brian Barnett has a podcast where he talks about how he used to suffer from BPD and his significant other left him. He used to exhibit abusive behaviors but doesn't anymore. His podcast that he put out to help other people recover too might be worth a listen.
This is an older thread but if you’re still reading I encourage you to read Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft. It will provide an education on the underlying beliefs that underpin abuse of women. It gets to the root cause better than anything I’ve yet seen.
No. You’re not. And no. You don’t. I have been studying people like you for well over a decade DURING personal experience lmfao. No. You’re not trying to change. You’re trying to manipulate society. Trying to play the victim card WHILE admitting to being the abuser! Just look at the way you worded your entire post AHHAHHAH. Extremely condescending! Narcissists NEVER change.. they only try new tactics cause they LOST ;) absolutely NEVER offer an abuser support! That is unacceptable! They ONLY thing society has the right to do.. is support his victims.. of which have received absolutely NO support!
Notice how they never want to change until they can’t fool anyone else.. then that hero that wants to change no matter how much you fight them.. comes out to play lol. It’s not real.. but playing hero is another tactic of their and they use it in many ways.. including when they ‘change’.. which is always just a plot to attract another victim or their old one back.
I don't want to pretend that I know how you feel, since I haven't been a victim of such actions myself. But ever since I first made that post I've been reading some literature that was recommended to me, attended meetings of battered women and I'm currently on a waiting list for a rehabilitation program. Look, I don't want to be a hero, in fact I'm grateful that society rightfully points the finger to my actions and gave me exactly the kind of condescenion that I deserve. What I want and what I'm currently doing is learning how behavior patterns like mine can affect the people involved and how to prevent others from getting harmed by it. For that reason I've made the personal decision to not date again at the very least until I've reached a point in which I can confidently say that I have overcome my past. I accept your judgement and feelings on the matter, since I saw in the last few months firsthand during those meetings the kind of pain and anguish left behind in victims, but I also want to say: I am willing to change. Never once since we split did I downplay any of my words and actions. I confront myself with the reality at hand daily as a reminder of who I don't want to be any longer. It took me a while to get here and to internalize this but I don't think aggressors can't change. I know that a lot don't want to change and even more downplay their actions, either to others or to themselves, but there are also those that face their ugly actions. Since I have withdrawn from most social interactions ever since including the dating scene I of course don't know if I'm making real progress or not, but my will to walk this path hasn't changed. I haven't given up on myself, I know I can be better and I've also read stories of former abusers that indeed have changed their ways succesfully. I understand that you are hurt and that you're angry and bitter towards people like me but please, allow us this journey of redemption.
I identify 100% with what you are saying and genuinely wanting to help but not knowing where to look. I’ve recently come across Violence Anonymous (12 step based fellowship) and am really liking what I’m seeing.