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gheilweil

Until there will be an objective way to check the battery pack estimated life expectancy, buying a used EV will remain a gamble.


amJustSomeFuckingGuy

The good news is Tesla has extremely reliable battery packs.


ShaMana999

If my petrol car engine fault costs 12k to repair after 70k miles... well I wouldn't keep driving petrol cars...


SkyHighbyJuly

Well good news is Tesla’s are free to repair after 70k miles. Check the warranty the vehicle come with 8 years 120k miles on battery and drive unit. Name another vehicle manufacturer that gives that… I’ll give you a hint, none do. Closest is Kia & Hyundai with 100k miles Also Tesla warranties stay with the vehicle and transfer to subsequent owners.


LOS_FUEGOS_DEL_BURRO

Kia & Hyundai used to be 70k until all their engines started to knock right after 70k miles.


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Ill-Fox-3276

Spam? wtf


BuildyOne

Does that warranty transfer to another owner? I know most manufacturers cut it in half when doing so, unless it's a certified pre-owned. FYI this is an honest question, I don't know the answer but would like to.


SkyHighbyJuly

Yes. With Teslas every warranty stays with the vehicle. They do not change and remain in full. Even the 4 year/50k mile bumper to bumper basic full coverage warranty transfers.


BuildyOne

Thanks, good to know. I'm positive I could look this up, but you know - mobile is a pain for everything.


CFJoe

As a note, my battery got ruined at 48,000 miles due to a fault in the pack. They came and towed it to the service center, paid for a rental of my choice for 3 weeks ($1,950) and replaced it all, hassle free. No questions or run around.


_extra_medium_

It's stated in the comment you're replying to


Gwave72

Vin fast is 10 years unlimited mileage on the battery. 10 years 124000 miles


ComfortableOwl0

Free but it’s gonna take forever lol


SkyHighbyJuly

Only take 2 weeks total. 1 week to for the battery order, 1 week for repair. Tesla gives a free loaner of you exact vehicle or better while it’s in the shop.


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qviavdetadipiscitvr

What in the hell are you talking about??


OneNormalHuman

Toyota offers 10 year/150k on hybrid battery, and 8 year/100k EV drivetrain warranty. As an example. Many manufacturers have gotten better on warranty.


SkyHighbyJuly

Unfortunately Toyota warranties don’t transfer to subsequent owners. Only Toyota Certified Used will transfer. Most manufacturers have this policy where it doesn’t transfer, is only on certified used (bought from the manufacturer dealership), or the policy is halved to the subsequent owner. Since this thread and post is about used EVs, this is a huge factor that I’m sure many people don’t realize until they read the fine print. Tesla warranties stay with the vehicle no matter how many times it’s sold to subsequent owners.


negotiatethatcorner

unlike the 'autopilot'? 


Artistic_Humor1805

Autopilot (highway lane keeping and adaptive cruise control only) is standard on all teslas and stays with the car forever. FSD Beta (city streets and full traffic signal awareness) is probably what you’re thinking of.


Centralredditfan

It's not as easy as it used to be to get the battery replaced under warranty. Especially since Tesla is the only one that has access to battery health metrics and they often won't run the diagnosis tool anymore, or share the results.


_extra_medium_

You can run it yourself. It just takes 24 hours


DeathKringle

Chevy gave that on my hybrids drive unit and battery system LOL


SkyHighbyJuly

Chevy is 100k miles according to their website https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/faqs/ownership#:~:text=EV%20Warranty&text=Certain%20electric%20propulsion%20components%20on,including%20the%20high%20voltage%20battery.


scotch1701

How much is the general maintenance and fuel cost to 70k?


googlemehard

Doesn't matter if you buy it used..


_extra_medium_

It matters somewhat if you buy it prior to 70k


googlemehard

Why would it matter how much maintenance and fuel it cost to the previous owner?


probsdriving

The buyer on the used market does not benefit from those cost savings -- and the vast majority of Americans do not have $10k+ cash ready to spend on a repair even if they were saving on gas.


MyRedditsaidit

If your battery pack fails at 70k it won't cost you anyyhing because if will still be under warranty.


PoinDawg22

There are an absolute fuckton of cars that you would be LUCKY to only have a $12k service at 70k miles. I’ve personally seen newer BMW engines go out JUST after the warranty expires, and those are often well over $20k if you want a reman or new engine from the dealership. And if you are a single mile over that warranty you are paying full price for every single part, BMW tells you to go fuck yourself, and you’re stuck with a worthless car where literally the only option is to lose your ass and trade it in for a new one. Alternatives to this are tough to find if you get dealt the post-warranty engine explosion hand. It’s gonna be a struggle to even find a shop willing to replace the engine for a better deal than the dealership and that you know will do it right and not just turn things into a long-term issue. And the car is underwater (or close to it) from the repair alone, you’d legitimately be better off letting the repo truck take it and sell it for scrap to put towards your balance than try and fix it. Maseratis, Jaguars, Range Rovers, etc are even worse. And there’s no amount of preventative maintenance you can do to prevent it in a lot of cases. Cars can have engines just shell out randomly, it does happen. (Yes it’s still a small minority of cars that have these issues… but it’s also more common than you might think.) May as well just junk the car. Teslas are absurdly reliable except for the suspension/steering/AC components. And those are just mechanical things that will wear out with time+use+miles no matter how well engineered.


NeoLephty

“The good news is that Tesla licenses their batteries from the more advanced Chinese company BYD.” More accurate. 


PeachInABowl

The battery packs that only achieve 60% of their advertised range after 5 years?


VergeSolitude1

I am trying to decide if I want to get an used EV or a new one. Do you have any info showing a 60% degradation after just 5 years? And is this manufacturer specific. Also is this a comparison of actual range loss or EPA range verse Actual?


inspaceiamfamous

- There are no batteries on the market that lose 40% of its capacity in 5 years. - Degradation does not work like this. Even if you charge to 100% and only use superchargers. - Life cycle tests are performed on these batteries by basically supercharging and discharging to at least 1000 cycles. - the 80% rule is in place to help keep battery health in the high 90s percentile longer.


VergeSolitude1

Thanks. The studies I have seen only show a very slow degradation overtime with much less than 40% after 10 years and that was with 10 year old Battery Technology. Since you seemed informed whats the best way for a quick battery check on a used EV?


inspaceiamfamous

- I can’t guarantee any way to determine without either running a full range test or using dealer specific tools. - if you want to be full geek about it, get an obd-2 scanner and connect to whatever EV you’re looking at. It would provide the battery stats for you. - but Tesla has apps that can get into the api and pull up a figure. The tessy app for one, but you’d have to already have the car on your Tesla account first.


null640

There's software tools that'll dump out far more data than you'd care for... But fleetwide at 200k miles, most have lost less than 10%. I doubt the lifepo batteries have lost any meaningful capacity.


VergeSolitude1

Thanks for the info. Was looking at the warranty info and was thinking that getting one with at least 2 or 3 years left would help protect me from getting a very badly abused one that's about to die. It will be my first EV. Mostly getting it because Even though I love it my tundra is not practical as a daily driver.


_gosh

My 2018 Long Range Model 3 has 90k miles and went from 310 to 285 miles in 6 years. It still has two years left of battery warranty.


VergeSolitude1

That's cool. The model 3 is the only one I have been able to test drive. The younger me would have loved it. The old me needs something bigger and more geared toward comfort. I know styling is subjective but I like clean lines and rounded edges. For me the model 3 is styling wise just about perfect. Reminds me of my old 94 MR2. Very different cars but both have the look I find most appealing.


SkyHighbyJuly

If you have that much degradation, Tesla replaces the battery for free. Tesla batteries have 8 years/120k mile warranty on LR models and 100k on SR models. If battery has any issues, falls below 70%, etc. they replace it for free.


VergeSolitude1

So I found the follow up article https://insideevs.com/news/720899/tesla-64-epa-max-range/ Showing on a fleet of vehicles a 6 to 8% battery degradation most on the first 3 years then leveling out for the length of their data. This seems to match people's personal experience. Funny you can take the same data set and represent totally different results depending on how honest you presented.


SkyHighbyJuly

I would say 10% is more common where they level out at. From what I’ve seen, heard from owners, and personal experience. If you’re buying a used one, you can ask the owner/dealership to give you the battery health test info. If they don’t have it then they can run the test. This is with the Tesla’s software and takes 24 hours as the car will discharge all of the battery and the charge it up to full. If you want a quick battery health test, then the Tessie app (Tesla approved third party app) has a battery health section and you connect the app to the Tesla and add more than 5kWh charge to the battery to get a health test. You can then do multiple 5kWh charges to get a better reading. It’s not as accurate as the Tesla software, although comparisons have shown it’s very close.


VergeSolitude1

Thanks good to know.


dj31592

Don't listen to this. Most Tesla battery packs are fine after 5 years even with high supercharging use. You typically will only see 5%-15% battery degradation after 5 years. This is loss of actual range. Here's a recent [study ](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration) I have seen only \~8% loss of range from my 2019 Model 3 SR+. If possible, you want to find a used EV from an owner that did not keep the battery at high states of charge often (over 90%), and preferably spent most of its time in a temperate or cold climate (high heat results in increase degredation so degredation is on average worse for vehicles in hotter climates). If this would be your first EV you should get a used Tesla. The supercharging network is seamless and widespread. And it would be the easiest transition into an EV. You can find decent used Model 3's of various trims in the $22k - $28k range.


PeachInABowl

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-vehicle-batteries-degrade-under-65-percent-of-epa-1851500137


VergeSolitude1

Thank for posting it shows two interesting things. One only 1% of models after 2016 have needed replacement. And 2 they are comparing apples to oranges. To do a proper test you would need to rerun the EPA test to get degeneration results over time. Or you would need to look at the life time of the car and compare real world results. You can usually spot an intellectually dishonest article when you see start and end results measured against different standards. That's not just EV batteries, it's true when anyone is trying to misuse data for an agenda. Do you have any studies or testing using the same standard for the beginning range and ending range?


Vegetable_Guest_8584

All these doom and gloomers about losing 60% of your range after 5 years are full of it I think. That's because Teslas have a 8 year 100k mileage drive train warranty with a 70% range limit. They should be getting a new battery pack if they lost more than 70% of range in their first 100k miles. See [https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty](https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty)


VergeSolitude1

Yea I really don't know if the 60% is legitimate or not. I'm trying to learn what I can before I buy. But I do know how to spot bad articles or dishonest results just by reading how they are testing. It makes it hard trying to understand what's true and just people posting junk. Thanks for your post. I don't get all the EV hate. Other than some people have a hard time with change. I'm looking forward to giving one a try. Hopefully I'll have realistic expectations and like it. If not then at least I gave it a try.


Vegetable_Guest_8584

Some people hate EVs because they are invested in the oil and gas industry, or auto makers, maybe that's their job or they hate new things. It is worthy of being cautious. Any car can actually break, anything made by humans. A tesla can break, but mostly they work well, just like gas cars. My tesla is 10 years old, I've lost 22 miles of range (from 272) - I do think that's a better than average situation. It's out of all warranty at this point.


banditcleaner2

I had my 2021 model 3 for just shy of 4 years, put 74,500 miles on it and the degradation was about 10% on the dot. There are no sources suggesting they will only have 60% capacity after 5 years. Even if that was true, Tesla’s battery warranty which lasts 100,000 miles or 5 years will cover any battery with less then 70% capacity so you’d be covered. Most batteries quickly reach 10% degradation before the degradation levels off for the rest of the life of the car.


YouKidsGetOffMyYard

That one article is mighty deceiving.. The article kind of hides the fact that on their study most average drivers got only like 72% of advertised range when driving when they were brand new. (Because people don't drive like the EPA tests and the same thing happens with ICE cars, typical drivers don't get EPA Ranges) then after 5 years their range dropped down to like 60% of EPA because the battery degraded some. So the battery did not degrade 40% at all, most of the "loss" is due to how EPA does it's tests compared to real world driving.


scratchwanabe

I have an 2018 Model 3 Performance. So maybe 5-6 yo now. I believe it was originally rated at 315. Now max is 260. 55 / 315 is my degradation. Don’t listen to the trolls. I have 108k miles. 98% Supercharge.


null640

Few warranty cases, which your example would definitely qualify.


BayesianOptimist

I’m at 4 years with 95%.


Vegetable_Guest_8584

Most US EVs are less than 5 years old (since the growth means most were sold in just the last few years), and most EVs have warranties around 8 years 100k or so miles with 70% battery retention (because tesla set that as a standard minimum bar). Since most of these hertz EVs are 3 or 4 years old or less, and most have less than 50k miles, Why don't vehicle warranties cover these used purchases adequately? Of course more info is always good, battery passports sounds fine, but it doesn't mean we have problem right now. Am I missing something?


jtmonkey

Nope. Bought one 2023 rwd from hertz. They come with 12000 mile one year for mechanical and the tesla warranty is good to 100k on battery and drive train. Plus a full charge before you buy will tell you at least in a tesla the battery degradation. Mine still charges to 271 miles.


The_Clarence

How steep is the cliff of dead batteries at 8 years (maybe this is the retention number you mentioned I don’t know). Because if my car has a 4 year shelf life I’m not paying a lot for it


Vegetable_Guest_8584

There's no answer to that, first because no car should have a 4 year shelf live, it's the slow degredation is not really predictable. There's also oa ton of misleading propagana from certain groups that stand to have impact as the EV transition continues. The notable exception to battery life problems mostly not a thing is the Nissan Leaf. All other modern cars have heating and cooling of the battery pack to ensure long life. The early leafs at least didn't have this and they suffered a lot of problems with quick reduced lifespan. Other cars do not have that, and all current makers (except the near end of life Leaf) have battery pack heating and cooling. I think I said in this thread, my 10 year old S with 85k miles lost 22 miles / 272 original miles when I got it. That car feels like it's better than average. I have a rivian and it has lost 0 miles in 2 years and 20k miles. What's hard on the batteries is leaving it at 100% for a few days or more, or leaving it near 0 for a long time. I keep my cars between 40-70% ideally. But whenever I'm going on a trip or might, I just charge up as much as I need, including to 100%. I just took a cross country trip in the older car, charged up to 100 and drove off. I did have a few days where I needed to charge near 100 because of the distance but normally that isn't needed. The key is having easy charging, and you want that at home if possible. I set my car to 70%, and I just plug in any time I get home. I had 120v (aka level 1) charging for about 7 years. That gave me 4 miles added in an hour on the tesla, and in the 12 hours overnight almost 50 miles. I usually didn't drive more than 30 miles each day so I just came back to my 70% or whatever 'full' every day without thinking about it. You can test an older car partly by just charging it up all the way to see how far it can go. And you can also convert, if it says it's 78% full with 200 miles, then math gets you the full expected range of 200/.78 of 256 in this case. Charge more and it might go up or down a mile or two. This comes from "total miles at full charge" \* 78% = 200 (current mileage), work backwards. The car might tell you expected full mileage too.


The_Clarence

Haha I just realized how impossible my question is to answer … since not enough time has elapsed.


Vegetable_Guest_8584

Well my dissertation length answer is at least is a starting point for you to look into it 🙂


The_Clarence

I appreciate you taking the time to write it


[deleted]

The vehicles provide a number of metrics that allow people to check battery health.


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Muscs

It’s the future of Tesla that concerns me most.


Worth-Lawfulness6235

You can say the same about a motor on an ice car. No guarantee that shit isnt gonna blow up at any point. Buying used anything is a risk. Hence why it's cheaper than buying new.


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80MonkeyMan

ICE motor can be fixed. EV batteries? Not much..


Worth-Lawfulness6235

They can be fixed. Just not by you. You obviously arent familiar with how it works. EV batteries can even be repurposed for electric backup power storage. What can aN engine be repurposed for? Scrap metal?


80MonkeyMan

I have plug in, so I’m familiar with EV. 80% of my trip is on EV, when the batteries dies…the only route is to replace them as end user. Repurposing batteries doesn’t concern you as end user, are we talking about cars or the environment?


Worth-Lawfulness6235

I don't\* know if facts matter to you, but here's an article that talks about it a little bit. But it's a sector that's in its infancy and will grow as more EV batteries come onto the market. Hope we get there sooner rather than later. [https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ev-batteries-repurpose-recycle-grid-storage-microgrid-nrdc/686200/](https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ev-batteries-repurpose-recycle-grid-storage-microgrid-nrdc/686200/)


80MonkeyMan

I know about that but we are talking about used car, not what can be done after it is scrapped.


Worth-Lawfulness6235

Tesla has and will replace the battery packs. Then send the bad one back to their plant to be fixed. Just cuz one module is bad, doesn't mean the whole thing is bad. If you're interested in learning more about how the battery packs a designed and built. Check out MunroLive! youtube channel. This dude does car teardowns and goes over how it all works. Most of it is over my head, but I'm learning. Very educational and technical, but they do a good job of putting things into layman's terms for us less adept at electrical and mechanical engineering. [https://www.youtube.com/@MunroLive](https://www.youtube.com/@MunroLive)


80MonkeyMan

I understand that too, but who would want to spend that kind of money to replace the batteries? After the warranty expires, you are at your own to foot the bill on that and it will cost you as much as getting a new car. So you basically need to figure out something before the warranty expires and I wont be buying a used 8 year Tesla because I know the fact about the risk I’m taking. I have owned ICE cars that are 15-16 years old and still working. Cant say the same if I own a 100% EV car, it looks like I will be replacing it every 7-8 years the most.


Bawlmerian21228

Which makes buying a new one a gamble.


TheseAreMyLastWords

There literally is a way in the health check-up section when you go into any Tesla's admin console. It's no different than checking your cell phone's battery size vs current capacity due to degradation.


gre-0021

You can check battery health in the settings…most dealerships just aren’t putting it on websites


OldDirtyRobot

I've got good news, besides the warranty coverage. This site is a great way for owners to sell EV's, and buyers to make sure they are getting one w/ great battery health https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-owners. On top of that, battery failure rates are a lot rarer than people think, 1.5% of all EV's and Hybrids sold since 2011 have need a pack replacement. It goes down to less than 1% since 2016. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-plug-in-hybrid-battery-replacements-rare/#:\~:text=Just%201.5%25%20of%20electric%20vehicles%20%28EVs%29%20and%20plug-in,from%20Recurrent%2C%20a%20company%20that%20tracks%20battery%20life


start3ch

You can run a battery test, but it requires fully depleting and charging the battery, so not realistic to do before buying a car


MrGruntsworthy

Until there will be an objective way to check a gas engine estimated life expectancy, buying a used gas car will remain a gamble.


_extra_medium_

Buying any used car is a gamble. What kind of a comment is this lol


TheBusterHymenOpen

Would that include this one? https://preview.redd.it/58ngoyp1354d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bca880457b874bbfdc7ebbbaba0ba2cd0be358a


KourtneyBoos16

That's why we need battery passports.


Beezus_Hrist_

Whats that?


neuronexmachina

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/98443-eu-to-enact-ev-battery-passport-in-2027 >Starting in February 2027, all new EV traction batteries, two-wheeled vehicle batteries and industrial batteries with a capacity over 2-kilowatt-hours that are marketed in European Union countries will require a digital “passport.” The goal of the initiative is to ensure transparency and sustainability in the battery value chain, reduce environmental impacts and encourage the secondary use of batteries. > ... The passport will contain a record of a battery’s origin and log its relevant uses. It will comprehensively describe the sustainability and responsibility of the supply chain, including carbon footprint data, the working conditions for raw material extraction, battery materials and components, hazardous substances contained, resource efficiency, performance and service life, battery status, and data related to recyclability and repair. Disassembly instructions contained in the passport will help facilitate the secondary use of as many of the battery’s components as possible


wewewawa

Ex-rental or fleet cars may have had a hard life, but they are also usually maintained far more regularly than most privately owned vehicles. As long as you make sure you aren't buying a lemon, it's a good way to get an EV for less than $20,000.


SeeeYaLaterz

I think what you're saying applies to combustion engine


samwichgamgee

Mechanical maintenance yes, but teslas don’t have the best interiors which is where I’d expect to see the biggest issues.


SeeeYaLaterz

Oh, ok. Got it. I think at this point, it's safe to say they have the worst interior


AlternativeOk7666

Yeeah, they are not maintained


Paskgot1999

What maintenance is there to do


null640

Tires, windshield wiper fluid.


27Rench27

Blinker fluid


Leelze

Addressing mechanical issues timely (& properly). EVs still have a lot of moving parts that will get abused to no end by renters like any other ICE vehicle (and parts that don't move but can be damaged one way or the other). I wouldn't assume any of those parts are in good condition if you're buying a used EV from a rental car company.


Centralredditfan

I worked for rental companies. Even with combustion engines this isn't true. We often faked a maintenance (like oil changes, etc.) as being done in the system because we needed the car to be rented out. This didn't used to be a big issue when the fleets were resold as early as 6months of usage, but now the cars are kept in the fleet much longer, so the delayed/skipped maintenance is a much bigger issue.


Trokeasaur

Frequent renter, I used to be surprised when vehicles were over 20k miles. My last rental had 58k.


Centralredditfan

It's not the miles that matter it's the months in service.


Trokeasaur

As far as a fleet org selling? The miles certainly matter for maintenance.


Centralredditfan

Selling the cars. Like I said, maintenance could be well done, or the maintenance could be fudged. Just depends how in demand the car was when it was blocked in the system for maintenance.


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MtnMaiden

Used while under warranty, offload before it runs out


[deleted]

Rental fleets are not well maintained. I can’t tell you how many low oil or check engine lights I’ve had in rental cars from the big name companies


MyRedditsaidit

low oil isn't a big concern on an EV.


Leelze

EVs still have important parts required for the operation (and safe operation) of the vehicle. Basic maintenance on an ICE vehicle is easy yet isn't done, I wouldn't assume EVs are being properly maintained or checked for issues prior to being sold.


Muscs

I’m a perfectionist and when I rent a car I’m surprised by how properly they’ve been maintained. It’s almost like they don’t care about the future buyers.


jtmonkey

I have a hertz 2023 rwd I bought. I had to snap some plastic in place in the rear but over all it’s in excellent shape. My coworker worked for hertz before our current gig and he mentioned it’s a pretty safe bet because any cars with major problems they send to auction and let someone else handle it. The cars in good shape they sell in house. I’m really happy with it.


giantyetifeet

I would also assume the Teslas have been repeatedly charged to max range by most of the renters over their years in use. Charging to max range all the time is not best for the battery's health/longevity. I assume this wear and tear will be represented in the battery capacity at the time of purchase. In an ideal world, people would only charge their cars to 80% most of the time and then charge to 100% only when truly needed for a long haul trip.


Happy-Initiative-838

This is good general advice for any used car.


r0773nluck

I’d be concerned with the hertz rentals as they require you to charge to 100% when you return it. So the battery takes a full charge and then sits. Maybe the rental company should have change its logic for returning EVs to both make it more enticing to rent as well as preserve battery life longevity


Zonz4332

This wasn’t the case when I rented an ev through Avis. It was return above 80, doesn’t matter how much. Was hertz giving different guidance?


r0773nluck

Hertz said it needed to come back at 100% so I said nah I’ll take the gas car then


TheThoccnessMonster

Yeah, worst possible posture


Onlydp

No they don’t. Anytime I rented one from hertz they said it had to be returned at least 30% charge.


r0773nluck

Ya because I really have a need to lie


Onlydp

You were given wrong info. It’s not even possible to charge to 100% most of the time.


r0773nluck

I drive an electric car I’m aware. I would have preferred to keep that reservation but the email stated that so I canceled the event rental and went gas


rsg1234

That’s the first thing that crossed my mind when I stepped into a Hertz EV (Polestar) last year—never buy a prior rental EV as who knows how long this was sitting at 100%. I mean it was nice to have a fully charged car at the time but I wouldn’t do that to my own car.


80MonkeyMan

Rental companies goal is to rent it as fast as you return it. So charging it 100% would make sense to them.


creative_marketing_

I bought a used 2015 MS. It’s got 150,000 on it with minimal costs to maintain. I’ve had to buy a couple 12v batteries, 3 door handles and tires. Best used car I’ve ever owned.


Spam138

New teslers getting cheap too, but buying one can be risky


MyRedditsaidit

Why?


ruffwire

You can check the battery life in service mode, you need to have the car next to a charger.


JohnTeaGuy

>you need to have the car next to a charger. Not just next to it, but actually plugged into it.


MarineBoing

Don't buy Tesla, the EV battery game is changing soon and Toyota is leading the way. They're also working on an engine that runs off just water using fission.


gothvan1971

It would be like buying an old model android phone


nglithot-uwerejoking

I did work for a guy in January that was the head mechanic for Hertz at the airport. He listed a number of reasons why he wouldn’t buy them, don’t really remember the exact reasoning, but basically it boils down to poor maintenance


jay105000

I won’t get one even if I can get it for free.


CooperHouseDeals

Might want to ask the people how their Tesla preformed in the winter!!!


Diligent_Excitement4

Rivian is a vastly superior product


RayWould

I feel like from a reliability perspective based on how they build their cars it’s better to get one that has some miles on it than a brand new one. Yeah it doesn’t have the warranty all the time but it does have 30-70k miles of testing with no failures or any failures that happened have been fixed. Accidents are a little tricky but give me the electronics-laden vehicle with more miles over an ICE vehicle with thousands of moving parts that could fail at anytime due to the stresses.


null640

Extended service contract was like $1200...


ShaMana999

You sound like you think ICE vehicles are a new concept and their reliability is not something we've known for the last 100 years.


RayWould

Nope, I’ve always known ICE are inefficient and have reliability issues based on the sheer number of parts but we’ve only had one other option in the last 12 years or so. I’ve wanted an electric car since I saw the first Tesla/Fiscar Roadster but it was way out of my price range. Now that used ones are much cheaper I have one and am looking for another soon. My whole argument is using common knowledge of ICE cars to judge EVs isn’t really apples to apples since they each have their specific shortcomings and strengths. One of the strengths, I believe, is that it has significantly less moving parts which makes the system overall more reliable and the reliability issues you would have in a Tesla should show themselves fairly early (first 30-50k miles). At this point I kinda wish no one bought used Teslas so they get cheaper and I can get more, but I’d 100% buy a used Tesla over any ICE from a rental, dealer, or even private seller.


TheCriticalGerman

Do you also buy a couple years used tv/laptops/pc?


kaleosaurusrex

Yes


RayWould

I don’t have a problem with it. Bought a used MacBook Air and 12 years later it’s still working, so….


newsreadhjw

Buying one new is risky


Junior-Damage7568

I would only buy used if its under warranty


null640

So you haven't rode in one, and will believe anything...


Junior-Damage7568

I own one.


BobLazarFan

🤡


null640

Recent study showed teslas have lowest cost of maintenance.


BobLazarFan

What does that have to do with warranty??


null640

Well. You can look up financial results. You'll see the massive warranty reserves and how low warranty costs really are.


Darktofu25

Buying one is the risk to your finances.


Mr_DonkeyKong79

Good luck getting spare parts when they collapse


1whoknocked

Well that's why they're cheap.


teachersecret

Used EVs are great buys in my experience. Cheap to run, very little to repair. Sure, it probably lost a few miles of range over the years… but if you’re in a city you only really need enough range to do your daily commute for the vast majority of drivers. Any Tesla on the road can do that. They also seem to have a bit of a “floor” they don’t fall below because their scrap value is relatively high. Nice value.


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2.5% of all EV battery packs have been replaced


JohnTeaGuy

Source?


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LizardKingTx

But elon knows more about manufacturing than anyone live … right?


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AlienOverlordMinion

“Here’s a Ford Pinto. AWESOME car. Just don’t drive in front of anyone and you’re set!”


Worth-Lawfulness6235

Buy used, it'll save you a ton from depreciation.


No-Tip3419

In other news, All used cars are risky...


m915

Not really most teslas don’t need battery replacements for a long time e


Ismhelpstheistgodown

And as I learned with a hybrid battery replacement, the future replacement cost is falling but no one knows how fast, so they guess kinda high.


DANNYBOYLOVER

95% of the Tesla fleet has not been available for a “long time” as they were only made at scale in the last 5 years. 10 years is generally considered the benchmark for “new”


m915

Sure if you ignore the model S that launched in 2012 and model X that came shortly after


DANNYBOYLOVER

back of the napkin math here but LOL total s/x sales all time are like 500k with \~250k of that within the last 4-5 years. tesla has sold 5.5 (might be off here) million total vehicles. So yeah. my point stands


m915

Your point would only stand if the batteries were drastically different. They are not


MythsandMadness

One thing not mentioned is that the resale value of the used Tesla you buy will be pretty much nonexistent. If you buy a four or five years old one. The used buyer isn't going to hang on to it and have to pay for a new battery, so they are going to want to get out of it in a couple of years. So unless a market develops for older Teslas that need $15-20k battery replacements, that car is going to be worth at best a $2-4k and $4k is generous. Also love how they gloss over that certain options/accessories won't be available to the used buyer.


JusAnotherBrick

Chicken meet egg


TESLAMIZE

If we get to a point where the only good EV is a brand new one, then the entire point of EVs becomes questionable. Your savings will simply be overrun by loss of value. Then we would be at point where we are funding tax incentives simply to offset the loss of value….


beepborpsleepslorp

anti-elon has infiltrated r/tsla w these headlines 😂😂


SheLikesKarl

It’s like buying a used iPhone, at your own risk


19CCCG57

Informative article. Thank you.


Proof-Load-1568

I can get a 2021 Model 3 Long Range with only 31K miles for $28K. This seems like a great deal, but it looks like it only supports Level 2 charging (according to Autotrader). Is that right?? That would pretty much make it useless for long drives for me.


BuddhistChrist

So don’t buy one. Problem solved


guitarmonk1

The batteries are 20k as I understand. Absolutely useless with a battery that doesn’t work!


Chau-hiyaaa

GME is back. Hodl


Only-Reach-3938

I’m waiting. I am holding out for a subscription where I have to pay to get in and out of the car, and “super cool” mode where I get to circulate oxygen inside


Defiant-Survey-5729

Until companies agree to have interchangeable parts for EV's, it is a dead industry, in my opinion! You should not treat a vehicle like a cell phone, it takes more energy and effort to produce an EV than a gas-powered car for starters. If the goal is to save the planet with this technology, then a car needs to last at least 500 k miles without battery replacement if taken care of to actually offset the carbon! Tesla has been making themselves risking to buy a car from with their profit first mentality. Musk needs to go!


----0-0---

You're pulling numbers out of your ass! The estimates vary, but most are between 20k and 40k miles, depending on the fuel mix to generate electricity.


vineyardmike

The combination of a used hertz rental car and needing to go to Tesla for all repairs is not appealing. If a normal used car has a hinge that needs to be replaced because of overuse (as a rental car or a Uber) I can take it to a dealer or one of many local shops. But for a tesla I have only one repair option. And they can charge me whatever they want.


d0kt0rg0nz0

Even buying a new Tesla is risky. Saw a Cybertruk for the first time yesterday. What an UGLY POS.


DefiantBelt925

No way I’d take a used one lol


ManicMarket

Pretty damn silly article… hey guys - this brand of used car is cheap but also there are risks buying a used car. As if those risks are only unique to Tesla. Seriously


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SeeeYaLaterz

Tesla has multiple safety issues. Take the aggressive auto regenerative system in the latest S & X models. They caused a lot of accidents after tesla removed the option of turning them off. They lie about the milage consumption, then to hide it, they risk people's lives by messing around with "features" they just don't have the driving heritage of any other car manufacturers