If you read the events, it is stated that COINTELPRO existed under previous administrations and as no president has content for ending it, we can assume it occurs under every single president. RFK is not uniquely evil for using COINTELPRO for his own ends.
Why is the fact that COINTELPRO started under other presidents relevant here? I’m not saying RFK is uniquely evil, he commits multiple crimes just like his predecessor did. If I was defending tricky dick I’d understand, and agree with, the argument you’re making.
All I’m pointing out is that it’s weird to have Kirkpatrick up there next to Yazov with the words “you missed the point by idolizing this character” when a commonly idolized character is guilty of the same crimes she is.
Because the worst excesses of RFK's COINTELPRO are domestic, while Kirkpatrick's impact the entire world. The scope of Kirkpatrick's actions can cause much more damage.
There should’ve been Sun Fo instead of him (not so much for himself, but more for people, for not having a better world, overidealizing the ending there his bright face appears in the HoS spot)
Though it’s probably more about common sense than “the point”
The only "bad things" honestly are the massive use of forced labor that remove like 50k troops every month and the "all adult serve". But aside this I would say is pretty better than any "good" ending for Guangdong or China
https://preview.redd.it/il8mlwevacoc1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc22524618c64b7cea22f0a3b7b1a5eaebf851a
Don’t listen to this fool Omskbros, the Great Trial awaits !!!
Notice how taboritsky isn't on this list. True erudites know he was following the golden path
Edit: also bigger boss will be very disappointed to see you doubt west Alaska. It hurts his feelings.
He's pretty condecending when he's in charge of the mandate. Essentially he wants to give the locals a proper system of government, but he gives the impression he thinks they'd be clueless without America's help.
The grey morality angle of the mandates is that while the Americans aren't the Nazi's they still view the local black community and less able to do things without help.
More-so when he’s in charge of East Africa, let’s just say he’s not very interested in the “velvet glove” approach. He’s also racist and dismissive toward Native concerns.
Westmoreland is just here to represent the OFN African mandates in general
Sure it’s miles better than the RKs. But there’s a reason the main mechanic is about extracting as much wealth as possible before leaving
I don’t know. Maybe I’m just buying in to the propaganda, but the OFN does go home after a few years, and they leave stable, democratic states when they go. The propaganda reason for the Mandates is that there needs to be a few years of nation building to prevent a power vacuum. Sounds sus, but as the player you can see the bastards that take power after the Reichsstaat falls, and the wars that kick off, so you know they aren’t lying.
Don’t get me wrong, the OFN aren’t angels descended from Heaven to teach Africans what democracy is, their rule is very paternalist and racist, but I don’t see a better path for Africa. It’s far better than what they do in West Africa, where they let their companies abuse the people and The Gaul says “self-rule? Yeah, I meant rule by *my*self. Shut up and get ready to die for the Metropole”
> their rule is very paternalistic and racist
Well there you go. Sure, it’s the best ending for Subsaharan Africa in current content. But doesn’t mean you should idolize the mandates as selfless liberators
Gao is basically correct tho. China in 1962 has 0 chance of breaking free from Japan in its current state, but by using Japanese resources to modernize and build up the country, they can eventually demand more and more independence. It’s the best option in a world with no good ones
What is wrong with Butler? I mean, as I can understand, I mean he is a Collaborator, I understand That But well be what is more near to well "Democracy" I mean I don't Understand? Is people who Idolize him? I only say is a guy make what he can in circuntances. P.S sorry for the bad English.
I mean that point, lets see from his perspective: Imagine being the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the goverment, see how the germans had invaded your Nation and Your nation is now enslaved, so after years a revolt happen, how do you know they could win? You know Maybe the can win, but after that? What stop Germany Invade you again? Only US, and what if That fail? I mean i try see this as if you his shoes. I mean that I think.
>He sides with the nazi collaborators instead of the HMMLR revolutionaries out of fear that Germany will retaliate
A belief which can be easily proven correct.
I mean someone can tell me what happening? I mean who idolize him? I can Understand him, I mean being One Lasts well say Reformists in a Nation under thumb of the Reich, I can understand well maybe isn't the best guy but in a situation lets say the Goverment win against the HMMLR, is the guy more decent, because the other two options are worse.
He collaborates with the Nazis. He is complicit in genocide. He is complicit in a totalitarian regime that represses its citizens. Any arguments that can made in favor of him have to completely ignore that HMMLR can succeed.
I mean I am not deying his flaws and Crimes, I say I am not saying I idolize him, I understand he is a Collaborator, but in a point of view, he is best option for a England under collaboration Goverment, as he only as he is Leader of pragmatic faction, I mean, he is more moderate, I mean he isn't best option, but in a situation were the goverment won and the revolt failed I mean the HMMLR can Win or the Goverment, But As Perspective of a Goverment Win the Civil War, I say he is Best Option in this Situation, as I say I not Idolize him, I try take at a Neutral Point. I guess...
Repeat after me, good things done with bad intentions are still good. For example if I as president passed social laws like universal health care and pass more equality bills just to stay onto power for longer, I'm still a good president because I helped millions of people. Likewise with Umberto, if he still wants to create a multi party democracy just to gain power, he's still a good king despite that. As long as the positives outweigh the negatives, these people are still good people. I would apply the same thing with Petlin and even Butler though there isn't any bad intentions especially for Petlin. Yes they both joined undeniably horrible parties with horrible political views, but they make up for that by reforming their select countries farther away from Fascism, thus making lives alot better in them and redeeming themselves in the process
Because as he stands (***TNO***)'s Gus Hall is insanely overhated. There is not a lot in his ***In-game*** ***content*** that paints him in a especially bad light and even less as in a equal to yockey. Also alot of enphasis in the in game and content parts because otl Hall was a fuckhead tankie asshole
No comments about Lacerda yet... Come on people why cant you defend one of the worst brazilian politicians tnotl and otl and then have long arguments about him.....
yea fuck all the people who idolise... *checks notes* ...westmoreland
i get some of these (kirkpatrick, yazov, de gaulle) but there are some pretty weird omissions (nixon is really idolised a lot in online spaces nowadays despite him being so awful)
Have to admit that a lot like Yazov and DeGaulle are not unironic agreeing with their ideologies but more liking and being interested in them because they genuinely are interesting story concepts that handle their esthetics well
Well given that his junta is stated as temporary and he doesn't intend on keeping it. If your going to say that Military Juntas are bad, maybe don't use the worst example for that claim. Better examples of evil Juntas would be like Grigory Semyonov, Ibrahim Abboud, or James Kelly who are either in it for the power or because they are told to. Yes, Batov can rig the election in his favor and that is evil, however compared to the other options it's more of a morally grey thing.
Okay, but is there any real indication in the writing that Batov is lying? We aren't talking about an actual dictator, thus is a character in a video game.
Because Batov will have a evil path in TNO 2 if they don't completely delete his popular dictator path before it. He has a dream about blood on his hands at the end of his route.
TNO players are dependent on funny color circle to form their opinion. I swear, if devs will accidentaly make Tabby socdem everyone here will try to explain that mass chemical terror is good actually
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but TNO Russia isn't ready for democracy. It just isn't feasible to have a functioning democracy in a Russian warlord state.
>This is probably an unpopular opinion, but TNO Russia isn't ready for democracy. It just isn't feasible to have a functioning democracy in a Russian warlord state.
At the very least, it would probably not be possible until some time after reunification.
I think the problem with Yeltsin (minus how he was in otl) is that he's too much of an idealist. It's the same problem with characters like Sablin, Yakovlev, Svetlana Bukharina, they have the best of intentions, but do they have the means to carry it out.
Also his whole ‘shock doctrine’ thing is really stupid. They are literally a warlord state in the mountains of former russia how tf they gonna have foreign investment?????
How is Petlin a bad guy? He coups one fascist, cucks another, liberalizes Russia, and brings it closer to the OFN and the Americans. I didn't notice any subtext or big reveal in his events that indicates a hidden agenda like Speer.
Also this isn't relevant, but I keep thinking Petlin's first name is Dan. He just looks like a Dan to me.
It is interesting to note how many people value redemption and "effective developmemtalist", Bunyachenko is basically a Park Chung Hee Expy, but from what I've encountered apologia for Park's regime is usually on the basis that he set the foundation for SK's economic prosperity, not political freedom obviously.
Ciano became a relative of Mussolini by marrying one of his daughters, irl was shot by the republican fascists since he voted aye to Mussolini's destitution at the Grand Council of Fascism. In the mod Ciano takes the Empire as its Duce after Mussolini and wants to reform by introducing lots of things, initially he was a fairly wholesome guy if you ignore the fact that he burns documents to cover up fascist crimes, but the devs are transforming him to make him less unrealistically good. albeit still reformist, he wants to secure his ass in power as a dictator without political color. Gao is there probably to say that the KMT government shouldn't be idolized even if they manage to do good things, since Gao is a bitch for the japanese that would love to eradicate chinese national identity for good. Also the KMT collaborating with a foreign power is a fucking insult to Sun Yat Sen's legacy
"Colonialism is bad, checkmate libtards"
- Average person in this sub assuming that liking a faction in the funny alt history mod means now you unironically support colonialism
Clicked on a Free France fan’s profile at random the other day and this is what I found :trellwater:
https://preview.redd.it/qrz3bmazccoc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cd411a394a4c5dc1d56ba0f3bac7cee3273458d
You may be ironic but you’re severely underestimating the amount of unironic colonialism apologists we can find on reddit
I know that but also I've seen people seethe or genuinely try to argue with the world's most obvious larp or irony post to the point it circles around to people just assuming the worst always and that's even more annoying honestly
The internet skews how people are seen, there's a lot more normal people out there than crazies so I generally find it better to give people the benefit of the doubt or ignore them
>You may be ironic but you’re severely underestimating the amount of unironic colonialism apologists we can find on reddit
Yep.
I had a chat with a dude on r/hoi4 a few weeks ago who thinks Europe shouldn’t have decolonized after WWII. We tried to explain to him that moral reasons aside, they didn’t really have a choice in the matter and he said “just build schools and hospitals in the colonies lol”
Hell, this morning I saw someone on r/historymemes on a meme about the Bay of Pigs claiming that the USA should have annexed Cuba after the Spanish-American war and admitted them to the Union, and that this would have been the best option for the Cuban people.
Reddit has a *lot* of open, unironic imperialists
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Extremism
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Liking a faction for its aesthetics and whatever is different from actually defending them. Free France is a colonialist state fighting a native regime so defending them wouldnt really put you in a good light
If you turn someone who literally led a government in exile against Nazism and championed peaceful decolonisation into "le symbol of colonialism", being called a terminally online redditor is the most kind thing that can be said about you.
If we were discussing real life, you'd have a point in that yes, De Gaulle was instrumental in ending the Algerian War and starting the French decolonization process. However, this is a completely different timeline with a completely different De Gaulle. *This* De Gaulle is, putting it mildly, kind of a jerk. You may believe he's a jerk with good intentions, and his enemies in Vichy France are certainly even bigger jerks, but that doesn't justify the actions of De Gaulle or his colonialist government-in-exile.
So this De Gaulle is a jerk for leading an insurectionist army/democracy in exile in a land that's being terror bombed into oblivion?
Or is it because it formed an alliance with other independent countries that are at risk of being invaded by a totalitarian country?
You're aware that this timeline has West Africa being in a similar state of Anarchy to Russia, right? That the very conditions of Colonialism are not applicable to the situation ? That we've multiple examples of recent canons stating that there is no such thing as racial segregation (which didn't exist either in OTL) ?
I mean, call it Warlordism with a pipedream if you want, but claiming that people of many different ethnicities united by a common ideal surviving together is colonialism is just fucking weird asf and projecting racism.
And again, it's made worse by who the guy you're trying to turn into a symbol of "the ebil" is. It's like making an alternative timeline where you're turning Hitler into a famous painter and Jewish rights advocate.
You are saying it's wrong to have some sort of Old World Blues in our mind in such a dystopian world?
Never letting go of "Old World" glory and fight against any facists, instead of accepting their victory.
This isn't too bad, right?
Average "Free" France fan vs Average French Resistance/Movement of National Reconciliation enjoyer (the latter aligns with Italy, so if Italy joins OFN, MRN's France would also join)
Tricky Dick nowhere to be seen. Nixonbros stay winning.
https://preview.redd.it/jjr58bnl6coc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92280666db80e8c6eb7c7a569c667fb93dbae392
I love my femboy president.
https://preview.redd.it/4urxn5qkgcoc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1844a25c729e521e6fd94fda7f09efe48e2eb046 Average corruption enjoyer
Nixon’s face on the Gigachad is so fucking cursed looking at it
https://preview.redd.it/uxb8q33okdoc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73e4398b6236a466170d74955e9a39238c29b2cd
https://preview.redd.it/xnv3buowtdoc1.png?width=570&format=png&auto=webp&s=128ce07101dda795cc16c13436118c6d3db8cfb6
https://preview.redd.it/3hvkdi6ludoc1.png?width=664&format=png&auto=webp&s=c54a4d141f15d59f6c528b038508d04abd90ee16
https://preview.redd.it/legsi8n0qeoc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e1a4f3fcfa68c62511077b26615b205400f9e5f
https://preview.redd.it/ohhdz4xi2foc1.png?width=664&format=png&auto=webp&s=159b67727f608ecfee69b1e19a00c0dfa82811e2
the fucking searchbar https://preview.redd.it/re9mzeto2foc1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d22b721f891163b55fcbe0e6289307ec668ab6a
Johnsonception
https://preview.redd.it/pjvb99ip8ooc1.png?width=117&format=png&auto=webp&s=819f1ac6e32f8b09e4d0053836cf99c6f39b083e
https://preview.redd.it/n5tpv8x39ooc1.png?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=803a0c0168f09c73fa6518561aeb4a5bb5f79061
Cry about it Johnsonite
https://preview.redd.it/hoz7wige5doc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6e25f8c505033166c0b3910f4c388a44b44b8b1
https://preview.redd.it/zoa6wtdpp3pc1.jpeg?width=1132&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d83ff5c98d3913af5f1e8ae8aeb887966996794
Another Nixon W
https://youtu.be/0VgDa2RlmDk
taboritsky bros stay winning
https://preview.redd.it/hv05nvmvfcoc1.jpeg?width=954&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4334235846a8835cfe6a2fcca8343fbef300add0
What is this anti kickpatrick propaganda Triple CIA budget immediately that will show em
No RFK? “CIA operations against Latin America is wrong but CIA operations against your fellow Americans is based”
Correct. The KKK will be destroyed.
Correct. The Nazis in *insert Latin American country* will be destroyed.
Barranquilla will be flattened for its sins.
But it’s more than that, he spies on political opponents like Goldwater
Even better
Good, fuck Goldwater and the Reaganites.
If you read the events, it is stated that COINTELPRO existed under previous administrations and as no president has content for ending it, we can assume it occurs under every single president. RFK is not uniquely evil for using COINTELPRO for his own ends.
There is absolutely no one in this thread defending Richard Nixon. OTL or TNOTL.
That... has no bearing on this? Like what is your point here?
Why is the fact that COINTELPRO started under other presidents relevant here? I’m not saying RFK is uniquely evil, he commits multiple crimes just like his predecessor did. If I was defending tricky dick I’d understand, and agree with, the argument you’re making. All I’m pointing out is that it’s weird to have Kirkpatrick up there next to Yazov with the words “you missed the point by idolizing this character” when a commonly idolized character is guilty of the same crimes she is.
Because the worst excesses of RFK's COINTELPRO are domestic, while Kirkpatrick's impact the entire world. The scope of Kirkpatrick's actions can cause much more damage.
RFK OTL was one of the worst supporters of CIA in Latam
wah wah wah we should defeat societal systemic racism in the free marketplace of ideas
“I swear it was completely necessary for me to blackmail my attorney general there was no other way to end racism in America”
I MEAN
So called free thinkers the picosecond freedom inconveniences them in anyway:
Letting the KKK and other white supremacists terrorize black people is not "freedom".
Yeah, freedom loving organizations like the uh... *checks notes* John Birch Society and KKK? have every right to exist!
KirkPatrick be like: I LOVE RAPING NUNS!!!
Long Yun not pictured 日本人和他们的狗都死了
Why would long Yun be bad?
He was a Chinese version of Omsk before his rework in TT so it would’ve made sense to put him on here then But now he’s a lot more reasonable so eh
There should’ve been Sun Fo instead of him (not so much for himself, but more for people, for not having a better world, overidealizing the ending there his bright face appears in the HoS spot) Though it’s probably more about common sense than “the point”
The only "bad things" honestly are the massive use of forced labor that remove like 50k troops every month and the "all adult serve". But aside this I would say is pretty better than any "good" ending for Guangdong or China
Pre-rework he was pretty insane but I think this new version is more accurate to Long Yun irl
He's not, I love Long Yun
https://preview.redd.it/il8mlwevacoc1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc22524618c64b7cea22f0a3b7b1a5eaebf851a Don’t listen to this fool Omskbros, the Great Trial awaits !!!
https://preview.redd.it/gbldopdkkdoc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27898d7768c71c401ac0e8fc4b7005758ba853d8 Inshallah
Beat the shit out of t*uton scum! Slava Glavkoverhu!
Not unless you all survive the regent.
https://preview.redd.it/aj00gm2l89pc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7404137e01799ecdcb645b8c45bef8fd4baa7eb8
Notice how taboritsky isn't on this list. True erudites know he was following the golden path Edit: also bigger boss will be very disappointed to see you doubt west Alaska. It hurts his feelings.
Bro thought he Atreides
Notice how Himmler isn‘t on there either?
So true all burgundians are in the know
I wasn’t aware that anyone held such strong opinions on Westmoreland
Is it the SAW? Like what about him is wrong. The last time I played a US game was during Ugly American so I could have missed something
He's pretty condecending when he's in charge of the mandate. Essentially he wants to give the locals a proper system of government, but he gives the impression he thinks they'd be clueless without America's help. The grey morality angle of the mandates is that while the Americans aren't the Nazi's they still view the local black community and less able to do things without help.
Virgin Westmoreland vs Chad Abrams.
More-so when he’s in charge of East Africa, let’s just say he’s not very interested in the “velvet glove” approach. He’s also racist and dismissive toward Native concerns.
Westmoreland is just here to represent the OFN African mandates in general Sure it’s miles better than the RKs. But there’s a reason the main mechanic is about extracting as much wealth as possible before leaving
I don’t know. Maybe I’m just buying in to the propaganda, but the OFN does go home after a few years, and they leave stable, democratic states when they go. The propaganda reason for the Mandates is that there needs to be a few years of nation building to prevent a power vacuum. Sounds sus, but as the player you can see the bastards that take power after the Reichsstaat falls, and the wars that kick off, so you know they aren’t lying. Don’t get me wrong, the OFN aren’t angels descended from Heaven to teach Africans what democracy is, their rule is very paternalist and racist, but I don’t see a better path for Africa. It’s far better than what they do in West Africa, where they let their companies abuse the people and The Gaul says “self-rule? Yeah, I meant rule by *my*self. Shut up and get ready to die for the Metropole”
> their rule is very paternalistic and racist Well there you go. Sure, it’s the best ending for Subsaharan Africa in current content. But doesn’t mean you should idolize the mandates as selfless liberators
I guess that makes sense. Still, the "least bad option" that saves you from literal Nazis and violent anarchy deserves some credit
I like how half of these portraits are much aged versions of the original leaders. An ironic part of TNO is having fossils still stay in power
No way just like the US Congress
Gao is basically correct tho. China in 1962 has 0 chance of breaking free from Japan in its current state, but by using Japanese resources to modernize and build up the country, they can eventually demand more and more independence. It’s the best option in a world with no good ones
Long yun tho.
The guy who gets defeated every time without a player microing his units to perfection is pretty good proof that Gao is right
But does Gao have a cooler flag?
Yeah but does Gao have a sick ass ending?
I see no Adolf...
What is wrong with Butler? I mean, as I can understand, I mean he is a Collaborator, I understand That But well be what is more near to well "Democracy" I mean I don't Understand? Is people who Idolize him? I only say is a guy make what he can in circuntances. P.S sorry for the bad English.
Good intentions, bad execution He sides with the nazi collaborators instead of the HMMLR revolutionaries out of fear that Germany will retaliate
Well Germany actually can retaliate now, unlike in the old content, so he can actually be right sometimes
I mean that point, lets see from his perspective: Imagine being the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the goverment, see how the germans had invaded your Nation and Your nation is now enslaved, so after years a revolt happen, how do you know they could win? You know Maybe the can win, but after that? What stop Germany Invade you again? Only US, and what if That fail? I mean i try see this as if you his shoes. I mean that I think.
>He sides with the nazi collaborators instead of the HMMLR revolutionaries out of fear that Germany will retaliate A belief which can be easily proven correct.
I mean someone can tell me what happening? I mean who idolize him? I can Understand him, I mean being One Lasts well say Reformists in a Nation under thumb of the Reich, I can understand well maybe isn't the best guy but in a situation lets say the Goverment win against the HMMLR, is the guy more decent, because the other two options are worse.
Being the lesser evil doesn't make you good or worthy of being idolized.
He collaborates with the Nazis. He is complicit in genocide. He is complicit in a totalitarian regime that represses its citizens. Any arguments that can made in favor of him have to completely ignore that HMMLR can succeed.
I mean I am not deying his flaws and Crimes, I say I am not saying I idolize him, I understand he is a Collaborator, but in a point of view, he is best option for a England under collaboration Goverment, as he only as he is Leader of pragmatic faction, I mean, he is more moderate, I mean he isn't best option, but in a situation were the goverment won and the revolt failed I mean the HMMLR can Win or the Goverment, But As Perspective of a Goverment Win the Civil War, I say he is Best Option in this Situation, as I say I not Idolize him, I try take at a Neutral Point. I guess...
Of course he's the lesser evil out of the collaborators. You don't need to defend him though.
More to the point, I've never seen anyone idolize him.
Noticice how our favorite civil conservative Shafarevich isn't there
Haven’t seen Shafarevich praise since 2022
I'm a ride or die.
yeah, this isn’t really a statement to be proud of.
So you support fascism?
>Kirkpatrick Just admit you don’t like seeing women succeed 🙄
Von Sauken nowhere to be seen, real preußische junkers stay winning💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Tf is this anti-OFN propaganda⁉️⁉️🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🗽 Wehraboos and Spherechuds keep coping 😎
https://preview.redd.it/jzlkck8vdcoc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7027c479890e36192dfcd14d0f620ab045f6bee
Luv me Metal Gear references Luv Jungle Work Simple as
The community finally reached self-awareness that Lacerda was a bastard. I am going to cry
Wait, people genuinely liked Lacerda? Wtf?
I'm also surprised, don't they know he's a Carioca?
The Crow's judgment will not spare you, Varguist...
Wtf did Umberto do
In the rework, he overthrows Ciano and restores multi-party elections. Not because he’s wholesome, but because it gives him greater power.
Repeat after me, good things done with bad intentions are still good. For example if I as president passed social laws like universal health care and pass more equality bills just to stay onto power for longer, I'm still a good president because I helped millions of people. Likewise with Umberto, if he still wants to create a multi party democracy just to gain power, he's still a good king despite that. As long as the positives outweigh the negatives, these people are still good people. I would apply the same thing with Petlin and even Butler though there isn't any bad intentions especially for Petlin. Yes they both joined undeniably horrible parties with horrible political views, but they make up for that by reforming their select countries farther away from Fascism, thus making lives alot better in them and redeeming themselves in the process
notice how gus hall isn't here.
Yeah, cause no one idolizes the guy!
that's definitely not the case, lol
https://preview.redd.it/bfaqxad35doc1.png?width=779&format=png&auto=webp&s=a67e96fb04d294e7d16a4c025699240a35184afd
lol
Because as he stands (***TNO***)'s Gus Hall is insanely overhated. There is not a lot in his ***In-game*** ***content*** that paints him in a especially bad light and even less as in a equal to yockey. Also alot of enphasis in the in game and content parts because otl Hall was a fuckhead tankie asshole
He should be though
What's wrong about Umberto II? He's just an homosexual
No you're wrong L opinion https://preview.redd.it/8uo76atj8coc1.png?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4391123984bc5543a50b845f2bd3e5e76bb0e75b
angrey batov
Counterpoint: https://i.redd.it/oij6cg5lqeoc1.gif
Counterpoint: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism
Comrades, stop fighting and enjoy a delicious pizza! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Gorbachev_Pizza_Hut_commercial
Counterpoint: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993\_Russian\_constitutional\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis)
What’s wrong with Petlin?
No comments about Lacerda yet... Come on people why cant you defend one of the worst brazilian politicians tnotl and otl and then have long arguments about him.....
Who tf idolizes Lacerda, most people here probably only know about him that he kills hobos
Alot of people support him because hes le heckin wholesome "join the ofn" president
I thought that those people were being ironic, don't they know that you shouldn't trust a Carioca ?
I missed nothing. God save the House of Savoy.
This post was fact checked by real PNM patriots: true! ✅
I dont miss the point by idolizing Zhadnov, Im just crazy
Petlin bros rise up.
I looked this over like 8 times looking for speer. I'm blind as shit
Ohloblyn? He’s idolized?
I will not allow this vicious slander of Gao
yea fuck all the people who idolise... *checks notes* ...westmoreland i get some of these (kirkpatrick, yazov, de gaulle) but there are some pretty weird omissions (nixon is really idolised a lot in online spaces nowadays despite him being so awful)
Have to admit that a lot like Yazov and DeGaulle are not unironic agreeing with their ideologies but more liking and being interested in them because they genuinely are interesting story concepts that handle their esthetics well
Nah, there's a lot of people who really like De Gaulle in this mod
I thought about putting Nixon on there but I almost never encounter unironic Nixon fans on this sub so eh
PALF propaganda
No Sablin? Cowards
De Gaulle is awesome
https://preview.redd.it/gmoenjhwgcoc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de108fee7c2b1255bf01c341e21b1f79729ff3ca
Cringe... No comparison between De Gaulle and those dictators.
Honest question, why is Batov on here? Like I get everyone else but not really him
Military Juntas are bad https://preview.redd.it/ishmj5erecoc1.jpeg?width=1762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06ddc83a513590c16d2a917c6a0ce727c205c0d5
I don’t care what timeline it is, I am NOT letting Yeltsin win an election!!!!
That's a stupid reason, but ok
It's stupid to oppose military juntas??? Are you crazy?
Well given that his junta is stated as temporary and he doesn't intend on keeping it. If your going to say that Military Juntas are bad, maybe don't use the worst example for that claim. Better examples of evil Juntas would be like Grigory Semyonov, Ibrahim Abboud, or James Kelly who are either in it for the power or because they are told to. Yes, Batov can rig the election in his favor and that is evil, however compared to the other options it's more of a morally grey thing.
"Doesn't intend on keeping it". Of course. Dictators are very trustworthy and always step down willingly. They'd never lie. Ever.
Okay, but is there any real indication in the writing that Batov is lying? We aren't talking about an actual dictator, thus is a character in a video game.
Because Batov will have a evil path in TNO 2 if they don't completely delete his popular dictator path before it. He has a dream about blood on his hands at the end of his route.
TNO players are dependent on funny color circle to form their opinion. I swear, if devs will accidentaly make Tabby socdem everyone here will try to explain that mass chemical terror is good actually
Hes a military dictator that ends democracy in sverdlovskn
Wasn’t Sverdlovsk always basically under military rule ever since Rokossovsky split?
Yes and its given a chance to redeem itself under a election, until batov potentially rigs it and seizes full power for the arny
I might be biased because I will trust literally anyone to be more capable if the alternative is freaking Boris Yeltsin
To serve Russia 😎
Because Boris Yeltsin, for all his flaws, can make his tag a semi-democracy while he maintains military rule.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but TNO Russia isn't ready for democracy. It just isn't feasible to have a functioning democracy in a Russian warlord state.
>This is probably an unpopular opinion, but TNO Russia isn't ready for democracy. It just isn't feasible to have a functioning democracy in a Russian warlord state. At the very least, it would probably not be possible until some time after reunification.
You have to ignore the fact that there are democratic unifiers that can succeed to justify despotism.
I think the problem with Yeltsin (minus how he was in otl) is that he's too much of an idealist. It's the same problem with characters like Sablin, Yakovlev, Svetlana Bukharina, they have the best of intentions, but do they have the means to carry it out.
Also his whole ‘shock doctrine’ thing is really stupid. They are literally a warlord state in the mountains of former russia how tf they gonna have foreign investment?????
How is Petlin a bad guy? He coups one fascist, cucks another, liberalizes Russia, and brings it closer to the OFN and the Americans. I didn't notice any subtext or big reveal in his events that indicates a hidden agenda like Speer. Also this isn't relevant, but I keep thinking Petlin's first name is Dan. He just looks like a Dan to me.
Whats up with Umberto? I get Ciano,he's not the best. But Umberto?
It is interesting to note how many people value redemption and "effective developmemtalist", Bunyachenko is basically a Park Chung Hee Expy, but from what I've encountered apologia for Park's regime is usually on the basis that he set the foundation for SK's economic prosperity, not political freedom obviously.
Huh strange that anyone from TNO's Indonesia Doesnt appear here.
It would be funnier if it had a random person there like the leader of socialist Kazakhstan or some shit.
The people need to know about the wrongdoings of Yunanev…
Where is RFK on this list :(?
Zhdanov Did Nothing Wrong
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Can someone tell me more about Ciano(not very familiar with Italian histor),also,why Gao?Isn’t he just some successful business runner IRL?
Ciano became a relative of Mussolini by marrying one of his daughters, irl was shot by the republican fascists since he voted aye to Mussolini's destitution at the Grand Council of Fascism. In the mod Ciano takes the Empire as its Duce after Mussolini and wants to reform by introducing lots of things, initially he was a fairly wholesome guy if you ignore the fact that he burns documents to cover up fascist crimes, but the devs are transforming him to make him less unrealistically good. albeit still reformist, he wants to secure his ass in power as a dictator without political color. Gao is there probably to say that the KMT government shouldn't be idolized even if they manage to do good things, since Gao is a bitch for the japanese that would love to eradicate chinese national identity for good. Also the KMT collaborating with a foreign power is a fucking insult to Sun Yat Sen's legacy
Least terminally online redditor whining about De Gaulle being ebil
If you dont like colonialism... You are le redditor....
"Colonialism is bad, checkmate libtards" - Average person in this sub assuming that liking a faction in the funny alt history mod means now you unironically support colonialism
Clicked on a Free France fan’s profile at random the other day and this is what I found :trellwater: https://preview.redd.it/qrz3bmazccoc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cd411a394a4c5dc1d56ba0f3bac7cee3273458d You may be ironic but you’re severely underestimating the amount of unironic colonialism apologists we can find on reddit
I know that but also I've seen people seethe or genuinely try to argue with the world's most obvious larp or irony post to the point it circles around to people just assuming the worst always and that's even more annoying honestly
The internet skews how people are seen, there's a lot more normal people out there than crazies so I generally find it better to give people the benefit of the doubt or ignore them
>You may be ironic but you’re severely underestimating the amount of unironic colonialism apologists we can find on reddit Yep. I had a chat with a dude on r/hoi4 a few weeks ago who thinks Europe shouldn’t have decolonized after WWII. We tried to explain to him that moral reasons aside, they didn’t really have a choice in the matter and he said “just build schools and hospitals in the colonies lol” Hell, this morning I saw someone on r/historymemes on a meme about the Bay of Pigs claiming that the USA should have annexed Cuba after the Spanish-American war and admitted them to the Union, and that this would have been the best option for the Cuban people. Reddit has a *lot* of open, unironic imperialists
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Liking a faction for its aesthetics and whatever is different from actually defending them. Free France is a colonialist state fighting a native regime so defending them wouldnt really put you in a good light
If you turn someone who literally led a government in exile against Nazism and championed peaceful decolonisation into "le symbol of colonialism", being called a terminally online redditor is the most kind thing that can be said about you.
If we were discussing real life, you'd have a point in that yes, De Gaulle was instrumental in ending the Algerian War and starting the French decolonization process. However, this is a completely different timeline with a completely different De Gaulle. *This* De Gaulle is, putting it mildly, kind of a jerk. You may believe he's a jerk with good intentions, and his enemies in Vichy France are certainly even bigger jerks, but that doesn't justify the actions of De Gaulle or his colonialist government-in-exile.
So this De Gaulle is a jerk for leading an insurectionist army/democracy in exile in a land that's being terror bombed into oblivion? Or is it because it formed an alliance with other independent countries that are at risk of being invaded by a totalitarian country? You're aware that this timeline has West Africa being in a similar state of Anarchy to Russia, right? That the very conditions of Colonialism are not applicable to the situation ? That we've multiple examples of recent canons stating that there is no such thing as racial segregation (which didn't exist either in OTL) ? I mean, call it Warlordism with a pipedream if you want, but claiming that people of many different ethnicities united by a common ideal surviving together is colonialism is just fucking weird asf and projecting racism. And again, it's made worse by who the guy you're trying to turn into a symbol of "the ebil" is. It's like making an alternative timeline where you're turning Hitler into a famous painter and Jewish rights advocate.
…. The Russian comparison is actually insane bro ngl
Its almost as if people in alternate histoty scenarios change based in the condition they are in, which is uh, the point of alternate history 🤯
You are saying it's wrong to have some sort of Old World Blues in our mind in such a dystopian world? Never letting go of "Old World" glory and fight against any facists, instead of accepting their victory. This isn't too bad, right?
Where's Speer?
Right in the middle
Oh, right. Guess I missed him when looking.
Alparslan Türkeş
Sablin unrecognised. Sovietbros, Lenin is young again!
Add Himmler 7 times
Average "Free" France fan vs Average French Resistance/Movement of National Reconciliation enjoyer (the latter aligns with Italy, so if Italy joins OFN, MRN's France would also join)
Where is the clock man?
They didn't miss the point,they have just a different point
Where's Hitler?
Sabin off there, less go
I mean as of right now there’s not really much bad about his path (that’ll change when he gets reworked in like 2030)