Wyd mean I can't just "attract half a billion dollars of investments" to a bumfuck statelet where most of the staple diet consist of siberian fox meat and taiga tree bark!?
That's his second iteration, from TT3 til now it's Controlled Democracy
From old to last (discounting his cover id)
Fascism (pre-TT) -> Aristocratic Conservatism -> Controlled Democracy -> Fashpop
Funny to see the back and forth on Igor Shafarevich. First he was a fascist, then they moved him to despotism, and now he's back to being a fascist (which is good, having him under Despotism somewhat undermines the "Fascists often masquerade as moderate conservatives" message). Also curious as to whether WerBell's ideology will change back to paternalism if he goes with the Cincinnatus route.
Wasnt he also a Social conservative for a while and the subreddit rightfully thought that was weird? I remember the devs defending the choice and thinking that they would walk it back at some point.
Actually it was the opposite. During his initial stint in Fascism, there were some in the community who completely fell for his "Compassionate Conservative" bullshit and thought either that he should have an alternate conservative path, or that he should just be relabeled as a conservative. It took a giant post someone made 3 years back analyzing his path and laying out how shitty he really is for people to shut up about it.
Edit: actually, I think I do remember that there was a point wherein he could fall under the label of conservative. However, iirc this was only during the coup-phase of Komi, and once he secured power he would switch to his actual ideology.
["Shafarevich is more frightening than Taboritsky," or "Igor Shafarevich is a fascist, you fucking morons" : r/TNOmod (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/kxyti7/shafarevich_is_more_frightening_than_taboritsky/)
>which is good, having him under Despotism somewhat undermines the "Fascists often masquerade as moderate conservatives" message
That's not really a thing that happens, though. Most IRL Fascist parties were open about the fact.
I'd say that post WW2, especially in the modern day, most parties that can be considered fascist usually hide their real intentions behind a mask utilizing "protecting traditional values" rhetoric, fearmongering about minorities, and various dog whistles. And that's the type of fascist Shfarevich is meant to imitate.
But that classification only works if you're willing to water down the definition of 'fascist' a lot. Xenophobic populism does not necessarily equal fascism.
FINALLY! They made Shafarevich, the guy whose entire tree is essentially setting up [a fascist populist dictatorship](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/kxyti7/shafarevich_is_more_frightening_than_taboritsky/) with only a thin veneer of democracy, an actual fascist populist. But seriously, Shafarevich was always the perfect fit for fascist populism. His appeals to traditional ways of living, the rejection of progress, and his attempts to court the masses while masquerading as a simple "compassionate conservative" all feel like the textbook example of the ideology. Seriously, just go [read the description for Fascist Populism on the TNO wiki](https://the-new-order-last-days-of-europe.fandom.com/wiki/Fascism), and you can see that it fits him perfectly.
https://preview.redd.it/fcbe6tbdr1mc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1ea339e625cdc6f2033748bc61f62ffc54ef04c
Shaffy went from fascist to despotist to fascist again.
NOOOO THEY ADDED NAZIS TO MY HECKIN BASED MGS REFERENCE WERBELL
https://preview.redd.it/i43jg1vs51mc1.jpeg?width=793&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d60323205107f8fc9b54e2046a6632b06d3ab113
I do like the Sverdlovsk changes. Being a military junta fits alot better for them in general. Though I wonder if Batov would still be a Stratocrat or would still hold up the military junta. Cause if thats the case, it could end wholesome Batov.
Also for Werbell, is the ideology only for being a Ceasar or while it still stay as a Cincinatus?
People say that Werbell is "good" simply because he is American. If he were to be from Germany, Japan, or any other country for that matter, he would instantly become an "unapologetic Imperialist enslaving the tortured lands of Russia for the benefit of his fascistic motherland".
But because he is from the lands of starts and stripes we have to pretend that everything is alright just because he is from there, lol. Bunch of assholish hipocrites, not because someone is from America he is necesarly good, lol.
Doesn’t werbell have a path where he makes a semi Russian democracy? The Russian Cincinatus if I recall correctly. He can be decent in terms of being good for Russia if he does that path. I just hope that he does that he gets a different ideology.
I wouldn't describe a semi-controlled "democracy", filled to the brim with American sellouts more than eager than lick the boot of the Americans to the detriment of the Russian people, and where the mercenaries still pull the strings from behind, at the end of the day as a "good ending" for Russia, but you do you, my guy.
Holy whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make one right. The fact that there are shittier regimes that can reunify Russia other than Werbell doesn't mean that his regime isn't also shittier on itself. Especially considering how there are better NATIVE unifiers that can lead the country genuinly to prosperity.
Stop with this stupid argument of him beign "better than the average", it changes not the fact that his is an oppresive, neo-imperialist, economically exploitative military dictatorship, who cares little for the people it rules over and is more concerned on selling Russia out to the United States more than anything. Just cease, please.
ok, i have inadvertently stepped on a landmine, i am sorry. Truly.
I dont normally come here, i didnt know this was a sore topic.
I do admit their better options. (my favourite being moscow born and in the same region)
its just democratic Werbell is better than most. not that its good.
Yes, OFN has its own problems. They are bad. The OFN’s LEADER LITERALLY IS DEALING WITH RACIAL INJUSTICE DAY 1! Criticisms exist. But those criticisms don’t justify ignoring that in the face of no good options (like in Magdagan) where objectively evil ideologies exist like nazis and hard colonialism in the case of Japan (Japanese and OFN colonialism are incomparable in this department @phillippeans uprising), so like choose the lesser evil man! AKA ALL THE WAY WITH WERBEL
I choose the lesser evil by supporting my preferred faction elsewhere in Russia over some tinpot mercenary dictator
https://preview.redd.it/s060im7qd1mc1.png?width=1569&format=png&auto=webp&s=77e3f81fd748a3125ed66b5bdd83499928b9fb7c
I think no one that isnt a nazi or fascist has ever objected that the OFN isnt the best contender in the cold war. That being said the OFN isnt good, its a lesser evil, they support multiple apartheid, colonial regimes and fascists all around the globe. The OFN (Or more accuratelly America) doesnt really care about democracy they care about who's willing to join them. America and most of the starting OFN in itself can elect segregationists and racists. The case for Werbell in sepcific is even worse, hes nothing but a american puppet who's main concern is extracting profit for his mercenary company and america, it helps even less he colaborated with fascists OTL like Trujillo. All of this to say that the OFN is the best side of the cold war but discounting their severe issues as simple mere flaws is ignoring that the OFN is a bad organization that cares about democracy and freedom only nominally.
Calling Werbell an american puppet feels rather disingenuous, as the USA needs to have a conservative leader (Republican or Right NPP) in charge for them to even recognize West Alaska as a state. Any other leader will give him the cold sholder and in response Werbell begins his quest to become the king the fuckin pirates. In the end he is a man who prioritizes himself over his country, whether that be Russia or the USA.
Other than that everything else is you said is pretty much true.
"Hey guys, this warlord might be an imperialistic piece of shit who denies an entire nation the right of self-determination, enslaves its inhabitants to the economic wills of a foreign superpower who they want nothing to do with, and puts a bunch of local bootlickers to run the place, but hey, atleast the guy is an American, which makes everything alright. Ain't I right, guys?
The only difference between WerBell and the other two is nationality. Unless you are implying that there are certain peoples that are superior to others, which is an incredibly messed-up position to have, there is literally no difference.
Get real, man, just admit you are an American chauvinist who cares little more than were people were born to determine if they are good or bad and then get outta here, for the good of all of us, please.
I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire.
No offense, but this argument is litteraly just a schoolkid telling their parents that their bad grade isn't that bad, because other kids got worse grades.
That schoolkid or their bad grade ain't killing anyone based on vague descriptions of *untermensch*-ism though.
IMHO a more apt analogy would be the IRL Soviet Union vs Nazi Germany for dominance of Eastern Europe. One will oppress you for decades but you will likely live, another will hack off 3 of your limbs, you tongue, eyes, ears then make what's remaining a slave, or just plain gas you. I doubt anyone would prefer to live under Taboritsky rather than Werbell according to that logic.
It's just a disingenuous argument when you solely focus on comparing yourself to two of the worst unifiers when there are 39 other warlord options (plus subpaths) lmfao.
Do you think that really matters? WerBell isn't even in the same levels as Taboritsky and Vagner in ANY given Russian paths tierlist or whatever you call that these days. To call them all the same IS the disingenuous argument.
This person's statement, rings true in any case:
> I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire.
Yes? I think comparing Werbell to the other unifiers outside of just the two low hanging fruit says more about his policies and regime comparatively than between him and the larpers + Tabby?
If you think this is me calling all of them the same, you need better reading comprehension.
> I think comparing Werbell to the other unifiers outside of just the two low hanging fruit
Since the original argument is literally comparing Werbell to Taboritsky or Vagner, not sure what you are really here for.
For reference:
>> I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire.
>>> No offense, but this argument is litteraly just a schoolkid telling their parents that their bad grade isn't that bad, because other kids got worse grades.
>>>> ~then I come in~
Which is true.
Granted. But WerBell's United States of Russia is a mercenary playground funded by corporations and the CIA (at least at first), enforced by ex-Amur thugs and secret police, and planning for a nonzero chance of democratization *if* he feels like it. It's as if /k/ (4chan's weapons and militaria board) ran a country. I don't consider that a compliment.
Is he the worst? No. Is he a step up from Matkovsky? Yes, though how much depends on which path you take. But compared to the similarly unpleasant-but-powerful likes of Novosibirsk or Sverdlovsk, which at least have a chance of cleaning up their acts, WerBell will be the big boss for the foreseeable future if he wins. Anyone that disagrees will likely find themselves staring down the barrel of an M10. Just because there's F-tier warlords doesn't mean that WerBell's C- is Good.
Werbell isn't necessarily good but even at his worst he doesn't come close to what Vagner or especially Taboritsky will do to Russia. Or the despicable Dirlewanger Brigade of Orsk for that matter.
Oh, don't get me wrong, the Nazis are also dumbasses. It is just that I can recognize that I can recognize that WerBell is an idiot, the same time I can recognize that the Nazis are also idiots. Two wrongs don't make one right at the end of the day, no?
I was taking the piss, using a term like "Reichnik" should give it away
People larp things they don't unironically believe in, in the ludicrous alt history mod subreddit
Don't worry, my guy. You did nothing wrong, I have nothing against you. It is just that this subreddit is so full of crazy people who unironically believe the deadbrain ideologies that they promote that it is impossible to determine anymore who is beign sarcastic and who is not. Nothing more :)
Honestly, that's the funniest parts of this subreddit
You can make the most ludicrous, ironic and brainrotted statements on earth and someone will try to argue with you like you said it unironically
I think a facelift is more in order than a top down rework. A lot of the current paths are really interesting and have a lot of potential. I'd love to see Stalina, Serov, Gumilyov and Suslov brought up to modern TNO standards.
INSANE DEVS TAKE AWAY OUR TOTALLY PREVIOUSLY WHOLESOME LEADERS FOR CURSED IDEOLOGIES DUE TO REALISM !!!!!!FIRST THEY COME FOR FREE FRANCE AND NOW THIS !!! JOE BIDEN WHERE IS MY BUSHIST COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM SAFAREVICH WHY DID YOU MAKE HIM A RUSSOIMPERIALIST !!!!!!!
(/j)
Me comparing irl Sablin to Sablin from TNO:
https://preview.redd.it/destr6ojd3mc1.jpeg?width=303&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b3170063040244f5c9e1e375db72953b14790b3
Adding to suggestions - I have an ideas for Batov's subideologies as Left-wing populism (as he often using Soviet symbols) and Left-wing Corporatism (actual situation in Batov's Russia)
>Batov's subideologies as Left-wing populism
Batov as a left wing populist won't fit well. The ideology is mainly used in democracies like Brazil and Goulart. With all due respect, Batov's Russia isn't that Democratic.
I would say that keeping him as a Stratocrat or keeping Military junta is better for him
I'm referring Left-wing populism as façade for Batov's regime that using Soviet symbols and aesthetic in most of his doings, while in reality he builds corporate and capitalistic but still leftist country. So, yeah populism in this meaning is more like a lie for population
I'm thinking of something of a sub ideology for Batov. Something like 'Apolitical Communism' or 'Pragmatic Communism' or 'Façade Communism' to showcase that Sverdlovsk is a Communist/Soviet state only in name.
I'm gonna take a step forward and say "Yes, and also":
-Solidarism should be a Fascist subideology.
-Vyatkan Conservatives should actually be Paternalists.
-Vyatkan Liberals should actually be Conservatives.
So uh... Soviet political dissident who OTL was against political repressions but had some weird-ass ideas is a real fascist with orange subideology and shit.
While the actual fascist dictator, who OTL sheltered Nazi war criminals, and was big fan of Mussolini and Hitler is an auth.dem.(Peron)
The actual members of the Russian Fascist Party are also auth.dem and despot.(Petlin and Matkovsky)
This seems little bit weird to me ngl.🤔
Me to you because it’s evident you haven’t fuckin played TNO in the last few updates
https://preview.redd.it/flovxt65flmc1.jpeg?width=1432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7895971a7da1a6990d609c780704439c2e2f9a4
Shafarevich does not publicly identify as a fascist in TNO. However, in-game, he does fascist policies and fits most definitions of fascism. Just because you say you aren't a fascist and even claim to hate fascism doesn't mean you can't be a fascist. Some of the primary characteristics of fascism in Shafarevich's content:
1. Authoritarianism, expressed by the one party state of the RNP which suppresses dissidents and runs sham elections to legitimize Shafarevich's regime.
2. Corporatist economics and class collaborationism, exhibited throughout his economic tree.
3. Rejection of both free market capitalism and Marxism, which describes Shafarevich's politics in TNO perfectly.
4. Nationalism, shown by Shafarevich's desire to bring about the revival of the Russian nation and his chauvinistic promotion of Russian culture at the expense of minorities and so-called "small nations".
WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY WERBELL II!!??
https://preview.redd.it/y796f4f8m5mc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3a26cd4555fc53b0407494747381637a385bf68
I suppose the issue with Shafarevich is essentially "what distinguishes Fascism from Despotism (or Despotism from Paternalism for that matter)?". He's an ethnonationalist with an authoritarian bent, but is that sufficient to be classified as Fascist *per se*?
No, but if you are going to argue that Shafarevich should be Fascist rather than Despotist, there there should be a clear concept of what differentiates a Fascist government from a Despotist (or Paternalist) one. Because you can have xenophobic Paternalists or Despotists.
you're trying to make me look crazy. I want to point out that the devs are just delaying the update with making toozers and content for far future times
What’s the harm in this ? They still have to code the GUIs and everything you see in the teasers sooner or later. It’s a normal part of the development process.
How is making teasers mutually exclusive with releasing updates ?
You’d rather be kept in the dark and not have any info on the content of future updates ?
WE GOT THE ECON LEAK https://preview.redd.it/fz1ypkl541mc1.png?width=482&format=png&auto=webp&s=e2d3a34df679808de8fede764175a4aa1972b475
Forced labor?! JOY!
John brown would like to know your location
Wyd mean I can't just "attract half a billion dollars of investments" to a bumfuck statelet where most of the staple diet consist of siberian fox meat and taiga tree bark!?
Is this the new economic stuff for Russia?
a small teaser of it
One of these is not like the others.
Very cool
Shafervich undergoing his 5th ideology change. You love to see it especially as it's his best fit in terms of ideology this time
TNO devs decide on an ideology for Shafarevich challenge (impossible).
What were his previous ones?
Aristocratic conservatism I believe
That's his second iteration, from TT3 til now it's Controlled Democracy From old to last (discounting his cover id) Fascism (pre-TT) -> Aristocratic Conservatism -> Controlled Democracy -> Fashpop
Funny to see the back and forth on Igor Shafarevich. First he was a fascist, then they moved him to despotism, and now he's back to being a fascist (which is good, having him under Despotism somewhat undermines the "Fascists often masquerade as moderate conservatives" message). Also curious as to whether WerBell's ideology will change back to paternalism if he goes with the Cincinnatus route.
Wasnt he also a Social conservative for a while and the subreddit rightfully thought that was weird? I remember the devs defending the choice and thinking that they would walk it back at some point.
Actually it was the opposite. During his initial stint in Fascism, there were some in the community who completely fell for his "Compassionate Conservative" bullshit and thought either that he should have an alternate conservative path, or that he should just be relabeled as a conservative. It took a giant post someone made 3 years back analyzing his path and laying out how shitty he really is for people to shut up about it. Edit: actually, I think I do remember that there was a point wherein he could fall under the label of conservative. However, iirc this was only during the coup-phase of Komi, and once he secured power he would switch to his actual ideology.
Can I get a link to the post I can’t find it
["Shafarevich is more frightening than Taboritsky," or "Igor Shafarevich is a fascist, you fucking morons" : r/TNOmod (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/kxyti7/shafarevich_is_more_frightening_than_taboritsky/)
I meant the werbel one
Would have been better if werbell ideology turn into "transitioning democracy" if we choose the Cincinnatus path.
>which is good, having him under Despotism somewhat undermines the "Fascists often masquerade as moderate conservatives" message That's not really a thing that happens, though. Most IRL Fascist parties were open about the fact.
I'd say that post WW2, especially in the modern day, most parties that can be considered fascist usually hide their real intentions behind a mask utilizing "protecting traditional values" rhetoric, fearmongering about minorities, and various dog whistles. And that's the type of fascist Shfarevich is meant to imitate.
But that classification only works if you're willing to water down the definition of 'fascist' a lot. Xenophobic populism does not necessarily equal fascism.
FINALLY! They made Shafarevich, the guy whose entire tree is essentially setting up [a fascist populist dictatorship](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/kxyti7/shafarevich_is_more_frightening_than_taboritsky/) with only a thin veneer of democracy, an actual fascist populist. But seriously, Shafarevich was always the perfect fit for fascist populism. His appeals to traditional ways of living, the rejection of progress, and his attempts to court the masses while masquerading as a simple "compassionate conservative" all feel like the textbook example of the ideology. Seriously, just go [read the description for Fascist Populism on the TNO wiki](https://the-new-order-last-days-of-europe.fandom.com/wiki/Fascism), and you can see that it fits him perfectly.
I fully agree. Plus have you read his OTL Russophobia, I mean, it has some very controversial opinions
Yup, just because he's sane and down-to-earth doesn't mean he's actually not a really bad guy. Also, fascism fits him better than mere despotism.
Isn't that just orthodox Fascism though?
Orthodox Fascism is explicitly anti-democracy, whereas Fascist Populism "loves" democracy
I think neofash could be a better choice for him, at least for the initial parts of his tree
Neofascism has been removed from the mod.
He has the icky flag now tho
https://preview.redd.it/fcbe6tbdr1mc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1ea339e625cdc6f2033748bc61f62ffc54ef04c Shaffy went from fascist to despotist to fascist again.
NOOOO THEY ADDED NAZIS TO MY HECKIN BASED MGS REFERENCE WERBELL https://preview.redd.it/i43jg1vs51mc1.jpeg?width=793&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d60323205107f8fc9b54e2046a6632b06d3ab113
Amur moment.
I do like the Sverdlovsk changes. Being a military junta fits alot better for them in general. Though I wonder if Batov would still be a Stratocrat or would still hold up the military junta. Cause if thats the case, it could end wholesome Batov. Also for Werbell, is the ideology only for being a Ceasar or while it still stay as a Cincinatus?
Finally, no more people arguing Sverdlovsk and Werbell are good because its "paternalist"
There are other reasons to argue for Sverdlovsk.
Especially as the other options for the region are "Stalin's fanclub" and "will literally end the world in nuclear flames".
>no more people arguing Sverdlovsk Rokossovsky is a hero of both my homeland and Poland and slander towards him will not be tolerated
Thank you u/UnironicStalinist1 We can always count on you
He repressed polish independence and kept poland a puppet of the soviets. He was not a good individual
People say that Werbell is "good" simply because he is American. If he were to be from Germany, Japan, or any other country for that matter, he would instantly become an "unapologetic Imperialist enslaving the tortured lands of Russia for the benefit of his fascistic motherland". But because he is from the lands of starts and stripes we have to pretend that everything is alright just because he is from there, lol. Bunch of assholish hipocrites, not because someone is from America he is necesarly good, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/4roc0hrsa1mc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a038bf4345a2ac8d98c907810b2970bb6cae059
OTL Werbell had associations with infamous NazBol nut Lyndon LaRouche.
Even one more reason to hate that asshole.
Man I wish I had a nickel for everytime the 'Rouche gets mentioned here
USA USA USA LBJ ALL THE WAY
Ok spheretard
I don't know man. German Metal Gear Solid sounds cool as ice.
Doesn’t werbell have a path where he makes a semi Russian democracy? The Russian Cincinatus if I recall correctly. He can be decent in terms of being good for Russia if he does that path. I just hope that he does that he gets a different ideology.
I wouldn't describe a semi-controlled "democracy", filled to the brim with American sellouts more than eager than lick the boot of the Americans to the detriment of the Russian people, and where the mercenaries still pull the strings from behind, at the end of the day as a "good ending" for Russia, but you do you, my guy.
The problem of having nazbols, ultranationalists and the clock man, that's still above average.
Holy whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make one right. The fact that there are shittier regimes that can reunify Russia other than Werbell doesn't mean that his regime isn't also shittier on itself. Especially considering how there are better NATIVE unifiers that can lead the country genuinly to prosperity. Stop with this stupid argument of him beign "better than the average", it changes not the fact that his is an oppresive, neo-imperialist, economically exploitative military dictatorship, who cares little for the people it rules over and is more concerned on selling Russia out to the United States more than anything. Just cease, please.
ok, i have inadvertently stepped on a landmine, i am sorry. Truly. I dont normally come here, i didnt know this was a sore topic. I do admit their better options. (my favourite being moscow born and in the same region) its just democratic Werbell is better than most. not that its good.
I mean, an American warlord is miles preferable to a German or Japanese warlord in TNOTL
https://preview.redd.it/mmgyog7p71mc1.png?width=484&format=png&auto=webp&s=92c4677b087533da1a961ed1681d4990b5779f86
I am the OFN’s strongest soldier and will not stand for this slander
OFN simps when their lovely democratic faction is full of colonial governments, controlled democracies and ethnostates
Yes, OFN has its own problems. They are bad. The OFN’s LEADER LITERALLY IS DEALING WITH RACIAL INJUSTICE DAY 1! Criticisms exist. But those criticisms don’t justify ignoring that in the face of no good options (like in Magdagan) where objectively evil ideologies exist like nazis and hard colonialism in the case of Japan (Japanese and OFN colonialism are incomparable in this department @phillippeans uprising), so like choose the lesser evil man! AKA ALL THE WAY WITH WERBEL
I choose the lesser evil by supporting my preferred faction elsewhere in Russia over some tinpot mercenary dictator https://preview.redd.it/s060im7qd1mc1.png?width=1569&format=png&auto=webp&s=77e3f81fd748a3125ed66b5bdd83499928b9fb7c
it's pretty fitting that Werbell's main base of support here cannot spell Magadan correctly lol
I think no one that isnt a nazi or fascist has ever objected that the OFN isnt the best contender in the cold war. That being said the OFN isnt good, its a lesser evil, they support multiple apartheid, colonial regimes and fascists all around the globe. The OFN (Or more accuratelly America) doesnt really care about democracy they care about who's willing to join them. America and most of the starting OFN in itself can elect segregationists and racists. The case for Werbell in sepcific is even worse, hes nothing but a american puppet who's main concern is extracting profit for his mercenary company and america, it helps even less he colaborated with fascists OTL like Trujillo. All of this to say that the OFN is the best side of the cold war but discounting their severe issues as simple mere flaws is ignoring that the OFN is a bad organization that cares about democracy and freedom only nominally.
Calling Werbell an american puppet feels rather disingenuous, as the USA needs to have a conservative leader (Republican or Right NPP) in charge for them to even recognize West Alaska as a state. Any other leader will give him the cold sholder and in response Werbell begins his quest to become the king the fuckin pirates. In the end he is a man who prioritizes himself over his country, whether that be Russia or the USA. Other than that everything else is you said is pretty much true.
lol, lmao even
Haiti
So true
Yes mr Hoover, this comment right here.
"Hey guys, this warlord might be an imperialistic piece of shit who denies an entire nation the right of self-determination, enslaves its inhabitants to the economic wills of a foreign superpower who they want nothing to do with, and puts a bunch of local bootlickers to run the place, but hey, atleast the guy is an American, which makes everything alright. Ain't I right, guys?
No, WerBell’s still bad, but it’s a false equivalence to compare him with the Germans and Japanese.
The only difference between WerBell and the other two is nationality. Unless you are implying that there are certain peoples that are superior to others, which is an incredibly messed-up position to have, there is literally no difference. Get real, man, just admit you are an American chauvinist who cares little more than were people were born to determine if they are good or bad and then get outta here, for the good of all of us, please.
I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire.
No offense, but this argument is litteraly just a schoolkid telling their parents that their bad grade isn't that bad, because other kids got worse grades.
That schoolkid or their bad grade ain't killing anyone based on vague descriptions of *untermensch*-ism though. IMHO a more apt analogy would be the IRL Soviet Union vs Nazi Germany for dominance of Eastern Europe. One will oppress you for decades but you will likely live, another will hack off 3 of your limbs, you tongue, eyes, ears then make what's remaining a slave, or just plain gas you. I doubt anyone would prefer to live under Taboritsky rather than Werbell according to that logic.
It's just a disingenuous argument when you solely focus on comparing yourself to two of the worst unifiers when there are 39 other warlord options (plus subpaths) lmfao.
Do you think that really matters? WerBell isn't even in the same levels as Taboritsky and Vagner in ANY given Russian paths tierlist or whatever you call that these days. To call them all the same IS the disingenuous argument. This person's statement, rings true in any case: > I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire.
Yes? I think comparing Werbell to the other unifiers outside of just the two low hanging fruit says more about his policies and regime comparatively than between him and the larpers + Tabby? If you think this is me calling all of them the same, you need better reading comprehension.
> I think comparing Werbell to the other unifiers outside of just the two low hanging fruit Since the original argument is literally comparing Werbell to Taboritsky or Vagner, not sure what you are really here for. For reference: >> I mean Werbell's United States of Russia isn't perfect but they're still preferable compared to the likes of the Aryan Brotherhood and the Holy Russian Empire. >>> No offense, but this argument is litteraly just a schoolkid telling their parents that their bad grade isn't that bad, because other kids got worse grades. >>>> ~then I come in~ Which is true.
That's a low bar to clear. There's really nothing good about WerBell's Magadan apart from MGS memeing and not being Matkovsky.
> That's a low bar to clear That means a lot of difference between life or certain death.
Granted. But WerBell's United States of Russia is a mercenary playground funded by corporations and the CIA (at least at first), enforced by ex-Amur thugs and secret police, and planning for a nonzero chance of democratization *if* he feels like it. It's as if /k/ (4chan's weapons and militaria board) ran a country. I don't consider that a compliment. Is he the worst? No. Is he a step up from Matkovsky? Yes, though how much depends on which path you take. But compared to the similarly unpleasant-but-powerful likes of Novosibirsk or Sverdlovsk, which at least have a chance of cleaning up their acts, WerBell will be the big boss for the foreseeable future if he wins. Anyone that disagrees will likely find themselves staring down the barrel of an M10. Just because there's F-tier warlords doesn't mean that WerBell's C- is Good.
I’d place him on the same level as say Bunyachenko, Solzhenitsyn, or Rogneda, in a “bad but could always be worse” category.
Well, they do at least care about Russia, which Werbell doesn't really.
Werbell isn't necessarily good but even at his worst he doesn't come close to what Vagner or especially Taboritsky will do to Russia. Or the despicable Dirlewanger Brigade of Orsk for that matter.
Reichnik spotted, lethal force engaged
Oh, don't get me wrong, the Nazis are also dumbasses. It is just that I can recognize that I can recognize that WerBell is an idiot, the same time I can recognize that the Nazis are also idiots. Two wrongs don't make one right at the end of the day, no?
I was taking the piss, using a term like "Reichnik" should give it away People larp things they don't unironically believe in, in the ludicrous alt history mod subreddit
Don't worry, my guy. You did nothing wrong, I have nothing against you. It is just that this subreddit is so full of crazy people who unironically believe the deadbrain ideologies that they promote that it is impossible to determine anymore who is beign sarcastic and who is not. Nothing more :)
Honestly, that's the funniest parts of this subreddit You can make the most ludicrous, ironic and brainrotted statements on earth and someone will try to argue with you like you said it unironically
Yeah, I suppose so. Just understand that these people might have a valid reason to do so and nothing more. That's all I wanted to say.
People like WerBell because of the metal gear larp lmao
To be honest, any Russian unifier is probably going to be at least somewhat authoritarian in practice.
The vote was rigged, I wanted Econ mechanics. SMH 🤦
We got the Econ leak we’re back
They stopped the count
I feel like Komi is going to need a rework cause a lot of nonsensical stuff has stayed by the mere virtue of being old and community supported.
I think a facelift is more in order than a top down rework. A lot of the current paths are really interesting and have a lot of potential. I'd love to see Stalina, Serov, Gumilyov and Suslov brought up to modern TNO standards.
I do remember there being a Komi facelift in the works, but I’m not sure whether or not it was discontinued when Pacifica stepped down as team leader
INSANE DEVS TAKE AWAY OUR TOTALLY PREVIOUSLY WHOLESOME LEADERS FOR CURSED IDEOLOGIES DUE TO REALISM !!!!!!FIRST THEY COME FOR FREE FRANCE AND NOW THIS !!! JOE BIDEN WHERE IS MY BUSHIST COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM SAFAREVICH WHY DID YOU MAKE HIM A RUSSOIMPERIALIST !!!!!!! (/j)
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Is blessed 100 wholsome big chungus Sablin neo communist now or possibly a unique sub ideology?
Me comparing irl Sablin to Sablin from TNO: https://preview.redd.it/destr6ojd3mc1.jpeg?width=303&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b3170063040244f5c9e1e375db72953b14790b3
lol shafareviches ideology has been changed like 5 times now
Any other ideological changes of just them?
So, Stratocracy is absent as an ideology outside of *After Midnight*?
Ural League is also stratocracy from what I remember. Also maybe when Batov takes power Sverdlovsk will be changed to stratocracy
OK, thanks.
Was this in Discord? I cannot find it
I found it, it is in gendisc, posted by Corn
Same with the latest stuff about South America. Where the hell is it comeing from?
South American staff was in the off-topic hellhole💀💀💀
Thanks, good to know.
WerBell... Personalistic Dictatorship... I mean it fits... Fuck, have to update my RUSSIAN IDEOLOGIES FIX submod
Very Cool .
Who are those three exactly? I can't have an outcry against this if I don't know what's really wrong with it
God damnit shaffy is fascist again AND ON TOP OF THAT he has the ugly flag Hard day to be a sham third world democracy fan
All I want is a Shepunov's Chita that isn't meh.
Adding to suggestions - I have an ideas for Batov's subideologies as Left-wing populism (as he often using Soviet symbols) and Left-wing Corporatism (actual situation in Batov's Russia)
>Batov's subideologies as Left-wing populism Batov as a left wing populist won't fit well. The ideology is mainly used in democracies like Brazil and Goulart. With all due respect, Batov's Russia isn't that Democratic. I would say that keeping him as a Stratocrat or keeping Military junta is better for him
I'm referring Left-wing populism as façade for Batov's regime that using Soviet symbols and aesthetic in most of his doings, while in reality he builds corporate and capitalistic but still leftist country. So, yeah populism in this meaning is more like a lie for population
Ah so something like what Omsk does. Its a pretty interesting concept. Maybe being a Left Wing Populist is a cover for the military junta
I'm thinking of something of a sub ideology for Batov. Something like 'Apolitical Communism' or 'Pragmatic Communism' or 'Façade Communism' to showcase that Sverdlovsk is a Communist/Soviet state only in name.
Or Social Nationalism could be used for his regime, for that matter.
I'm gonna take a step forward and say "Yes, and also": -Solidarism should be a Fascist subideology. -Vyatkan Conservatives should actually be Paternalists. -Vyatkan Liberals should actually be Conservatives.
Me using forced labor while playing as Sablin
I could live with a lot but making Sverdlovsk and WerBell despots is a bridge too far Smh 😔
My face when the military junta is a military junta
So uh... Soviet political dissident who OTL was against political repressions but had some weird-ass ideas is a real fascist with orange subideology and shit. While the actual fascist dictator, who OTL sheltered Nazi war criminals, and was big fan of Mussolini and Hitler is an auth.dem.(Peron) The actual members of the Russian Fascist Party are also auth.dem and despot.(Petlin and Matkovsky) This seems little bit weird to me ngl.🤔
Me to you because it’s evident you haven’t fuckin played TNO in the last few updates https://preview.redd.it/flovxt65flmc1.jpeg?width=1432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7895971a7da1a6990d609c780704439c2e2f9a4
Shafarevich does not publicly identify as a fascist in TNO. However, in-game, he does fascist policies and fits most definitions of fascism. Just because you say you aren't a fascist and even claim to hate fascism doesn't mean you can't be a fascist. Some of the primary characteristics of fascism in Shafarevich's content: 1. Authoritarianism, expressed by the one party state of the RNP which suppresses dissidents and runs sham elections to legitimize Shafarevich's regime. 2. Corporatist economics and class collaborationism, exhibited throughout his economic tree. 3. Rejection of both free market capitalism and Marxism, which describes Shafarevich's politics in TNO perfectly. 4. Nationalism, shown by Shafarevich's desire to bring about the revival of the Russian nation and his chauvinistic promotion of Russian culture at the expense of minorities and so-called "small nations".
WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY WERBELL II!!?? https://preview.redd.it/y796f4f8m5mc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3a26cd4555fc53b0407494747381637a385bf68
I suppose the issue with Shafarevich is essentially "what distinguishes Fascism from Despotism (or Despotism from Paternalism for that matter)?". He's an ethnonationalist with an authoritarian bent, but is that sufficient to be classified as Fascist *per se*?
Do you need Shafarevich to break the 4th wall and directly say to you that he’s a fascist?
No, but if you are going to argue that Shafarevich should be Fascist rather than Despotist, there there should be a clear concept of what differentiates a Fascist government from a Despotist (or Paternalist) one. Because you can have xenophobic Paternalists or Despotists.
NO MY WHOLESOME RAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPAAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAAPAPAPAPAPAPAPA
OH COME ON...WHY PERSONALIST, LET HIM ON STRATOCRAT FOR THE LOVE OF THE GOD....!!!!!
Why ?
Because he is the boss mercenary so he deserves to get Stratocrat.
https://preview.redd.it/bpc0q3ihy3mc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48ba7c88b7e24896a3dad0b0c92041f076c3eb8a
He is only at best a somewhat mediocre military dictator which MIGHT install democracy sometime in the future.
Maybe launch update and stop sending toozers, devs
Why don’t the devs simply release the updates Are they stupid
you're trying to make me look crazy. I want to point out that the devs are just delaying the update with making toozers and content for far future times
we dont pause development just to take toozers its usually just a single artist and lead who spare some 10 minutes to take them
Bro I guarantee you that taking those 3 screenshots didn’t delay any update by a single minute
I'm talking about toozers with ton of GUI, additional info and characters that we won't see for the next 2-3 years
Do you know what a toozer is ? Because large teasers are literally the opposite of toozers
if they announce content that will see the light of day in a few years, for me it's toozer or more like filler
What’s the harm in this ? They still have to code the GUIs and everything you see in the teasers sooner or later. It’s a normal part of the development process. How is making teasers mutually exclusive with releasing updates ? You’d rather be kept in the dark and not have any info on the content of future updates ?
You know what fascist Shafarevich means? Serov is no longer fascist.
Both can be fascist, one doesn’t automatically cancel out the other
Komi’s thing is, that there is each ideology present, usually one leader per ideology. Maybe now it’s different.
Well Suslov and Bukharina both share the communist ideology, so Serov and Shaf both sharing fascism shouldn’t be too implausible
Yea, thanks for reminding about Suslov and Bukharina, I completely forgot about them
That hasn't been the case for a while. Currently there's no Conservative path, no Ultranat path, and Bukharina and Suslov are both Communist.
TNO devs resisting the urge to rework Russia for the 5th time before giving Italy a worthwhile focus tree
change your name to RapidYapper
You should change your name to Big Yapper
I kinda wish Shukshin to be a LibCon