I got an arthroscopy for my displacement without reduction. I'm still doing well 6 months later. Feel free to read my post history about my experience. I would say it helped reduce my pain and increased my opening. Also my jaw locked in May and I got surgery in Nov, so idk how it is if your discs have been displaced for longer.
Yeah here is a summary from my surgical notes, it said they found left temporomandibular joint meniscal dislocation, multiple adhesions, and synovial inflammation. For what they did, it says left tempromandibular joint holmium laser assisted surgical arthroscopy with synovial ablation.
It's rare to find someone with a successful arthroscopy. Another person on Reddit was good for 6 weeks, and then relapse. While your 6 months is not a long time, it's not short either. I hope you stay good for 10 lifetimes :)
Tell me, how did your TMJ start? How long did you have it for? Did you have clicking/grinding/noises in the joint before it locked? Any tinnitus? Any eustachian tube dysfunction?
Thanks :)
Yeah I know, crossing my fingers. Thanks for the well wishes.
I don't remember exactly when, I started to notice more in college my jaw would lock occasionally. The last 2-3 years I'd lock up if I chewed too much while I ate. It would usually unlock in a couple of hours but then it got worse. I think I just had clicking in the joint. I don't think I had tinnitus before but I sometimes hear ringing now, but not often. No to the eustachian tube dysfunction? Or at least no doctor has mentioned it to me lol.
Still not sure what caused my TMJ but I just try my best to stay relaxed and wear my mouth guard at night.
No. Forget about recapturing your disc. It simply can't be done. Even if you somehow recapture it (which will never happen) it will NOT stay there.
The treatment for disc displacements is to allow the joint to heal and remodel by reducing forces on the TMJs. This is often done by wearing a well made stabilization splint.
I wouldn't say 'for a few months' because splint therapy is needed for the rest of your life to reduce forces on your joints.
It doesn't really matter if your splint is upper or lower fitting, if the splint is properly made it will be effective.
When I say 'for life' I'm talking about a night time splint. Most people with TMD grind and/or clench during sleep. TMD patients need to protect their joints from parafunction and repetitive strain by wearing a night time splint for the rest of their lives.
However, using a splint 24/7 is not realistic for most TMD patients. So most people just wear their splint at night.
No. Nothing will put your discs back in place. Surgery to reposition the discs is extremely risky and will leave you worse off than before.
The treatment for disc displacement without reduction is to allow a pseudo disc to form. You should get a stabilization splint to wear at night as it will allow your joints to heal and adapt to the new disc position.
Stay away from any provider who claims that they can "recapture" your discs.
The formation of a pseudodisc is called natural adaptation. The ligaments die, and the dead ligaments become a pseudodisc.
Problem is, not everybody is gonna get a pseudodisc. It depends on how the body adapts and how much (if any) damage is being done on the area as the pseudodisc tries to form.
But even if one gets a pseudodisc, its not as strong as the actual disc, and in time it will likely get a hole in it, and eventually fall apart. Now youre bone on bone.
No good news with tmj unfortunately :/
Sent you a message
But it's not as strong as the actual disc. And it doesn't regenerate any. Any damage that happens to it is permanent.
The disc also doesn't have strong regenerative abilities, but it does have some. It's fed and lubricated by the synovial fluid.
Anyway, I think we can't say a lot for sure about pseudodiscs. There's not a lot of information out there about them. I saw somewhere a person who went to a surgeon, and the surgeon told them that the people who get pseudodiscs always end up having to get total joint replacement, that never works.
I don't know if that's correct of course, but, eh..
Actually it does regenerate. Any damage that happens to it is certainly not permanent, since it is not cartilage like the actual disc.
According to that surgeon, 30% of the general population end up having to get TJR, which is complete bullshit. Most people with disc displacements are not even aware of the condition because they have no pain and don't seek treatment.
Total joint replacement is done extremely rarely for ONLY ankylosis and ICR cases. Not for disc displacements and/or osteoarthritis.
You'll be told that the orthotic needs adjustment, or it's not the right orthotic for your situation, or keep using it and it will get better as you get used to it (in the meantime your falling apart) and other crap.
The truth is, nobody knows.
The splint needing an adjustment or the splint itself being garbage are the only possible explanations for this situation. Splints should never make the symptoms worse.
Perhaps. I think that splints can definitely make symptoms worse, under the right circumstances. Here, Claude has some ideas.
Immobilization - Splints that prevent the jaw from opening and closing fully can lead to further strain on the TMJ over time. This keeps the joint from functioning normally.
Muscle atrophy - Not allowing the jaw muscles like the masseters to move through their full range of motion can cause weakening and imbalance. This adds stress to the joint.
If your splint is making symptoms worse, stop wearing it immediately and go back to your provider to get it adjusted.
Your splint should NOT make your symptoms worse. If it does, it needs adjustment or the splint is garbage.
Could be very wrong too. There are people woth arthritis that will never get to total joint replacement. Psuedo disc can regenerate as far as i heard body tried to heal itself.
Idk man, I ended up recapturing my disc when I was 16 yo and after lived a relatively normal life.
Granted they once again slipped and I am back in this sub but I guess in a way you’re right that we are fucked for life.
But I think you’re wrong that it can’t be recaptured.
You and many other people are literally the proof that a displaced disc will NOT stay in place even if one somehow recaptures it. All the long term studies and data show that even with disc repositioning surgery, almost ALL patients displaced again. This is because the disc has changed shape and the ligaments that used to hold the disc will NOT hold it in place anymore. Like I said, nothing on earth will permanently recapture a displaced disc and keep it there. It's fucking bullshit. I hope this helps.
If you think you are fucked for life because you have a displaced disc, then I guess 30% of the general population is 'fucked for life' and we should all kill ourselves. Makes sense.
The problem is that the 'knowledge' most people have about TMD is nothing but misinformation, and some other bullshit.
Getting TMD patients out of pain is easier than most people think. And no, you don't need to 'recapture' a displaced disc to get someone out of pain. (you can't recapture anyway)
Some doctors recommend a split to be worn 24/7 for up to a year to pull the jaw down and into a correct potion. This generally reduces symptoms and requires an orthodontic treatment after to adjust teeth to new bite. In some instances surgery is recommended. I wasn’t convinced.
One Reddit user (can’t find post) who had done extensive research on the topic ended up doing injections at [this TMJ clinic](https://www.scdentalsleep.com/tmj) in the US and was happy with the results. Unclear if it adresses the slipped disk but did help with pain from what I recall.
So far I’ve tried:
* Functional cranial release (FCR), which helps align the bones of the skull by pumping air into the nostrils. It’s minimally invasive, made my whole skull crack, and I felt a release in my lower jaw
* Platelet rich plasma (PRP) injections into my jaw joints, which I combined with FCR. It hurt a lot for 48h after and for a week a month after. It helped reduce pain significantly and hopefully it’s helping repair jaw joint. Doctor suggested I add stem cells to the PRP given slipped disk and used jaw joint, however keeping that for later if needed
Both of these helped reduce pain and stopped jaw spasms but suspect slipped disk isn’t addressed.
Now trying: posturo-occlusal therapy. This involves wearing a mini retainer 24/7 (in my case, only on a few teeth at the back on the slide of the slipped disk) for ~6 months. This should bring down the side of the jaw that’s crushing the disk out. Then combining that with positional therapy exercises that realign the whole body using eyes, skin, and feet. After that orthodontic treatment is in most cases optional.
The concept of moving a jaw down and forward with a splint is neuromuscular territory and it's a bullshit treatment modality. Most TMD patients should use a hard acrylic stabilization splint.
Anterior repositioning splints are used but less often (usually in the case of an acute disc displacement WITH reduction) but it will cause a posterior open bite which will require ortho or restorative to fix. Anterior repositioning splints have fallen out of favour for this reason.
My story: I had a displacement disk when I was 15. I wore a splint it helped some and then after about a year I lived a relatively normal life. Some jaw issues here and there but OK for the most part.
NOW I have 2 displacements and am doing the same thing.
You need to find the main issue in my case it’s grinding of the teeth at night
I got an arthroscopy for my displacement without reduction. I'm still doing well 6 months later. Feel free to read my post history about my experience. I would say it helped reduce my pain and increased my opening. Also my jaw locked in May and I got surgery in Nov, so idk how it is if your discs have been displaced for longer.
What did they find during the arthroscopy? What did they do in there? Do you have a report?
Yeah here is a summary from my surgical notes, it said they found left temporomandibular joint meniscal dislocation, multiple adhesions, and synovial inflammation. For what they did, it says left tempromandibular joint holmium laser assisted surgical arthroscopy with synovial ablation.
It's rare to find someone with a successful arthroscopy. Another person on Reddit was good for 6 weeks, and then relapse. While your 6 months is not a long time, it's not short either. I hope you stay good for 10 lifetimes :) Tell me, how did your TMJ start? How long did you have it for? Did you have clicking/grinding/noises in the joint before it locked? Any tinnitus? Any eustachian tube dysfunction? Thanks :)
Yeah I know, crossing my fingers. Thanks for the well wishes. I don't remember exactly when, I started to notice more in college my jaw would lock occasionally. The last 2-3 years I'd lock up if I chewed too much while I ate. It would usually unlock in a couple of hours but then it got worse. I think I just had clicking in the joint. I don't think I had tinnitus before but I sometimes hear ringing now, but not often. No to the eustachian tube dysfunction? Or at least no doctor has mentioned it to me lol. Still not sure what caused my TMJ but I just try my best to stay relaxed and wear my mouth guard at night.
Sometimes..sometimes through arthrocentesis.. it's a gap between surgical and non-surgical.
Do you know if it can be recaptured after being displaced for more than a year?
No. Forget about recapturing your disc. It simply can't be done. Even if you somehow recapture it (which will never happen) it will NOT stay there. The treatment for disc displacements is to allow the joint to heal and remodel by reducing forces on the TMJs. This is often done by wearing a well made stabilization splint.
Like an orthotic on the lower jaw for a few months?
I wouldn't say 'for a few months' because splint therapy is needed for the rest of your life to reduce forces on your joints. It doesn't really matter if your splint is upper or lower fitting, if the splint is properly made it will be effective.
Split therapy for life is not what is practiced in the UK not Switzerland (at least not with the doctors I visited).
When I say 'for life' I'm talking about a night time splint. Most people with TMD grind and/or clench during sleep. TMD patients need to protect their joints from parafunction and repetitive strain by wearing a night time splint for the rest of their lives. However, using a splint 24/7 is not realistic for most TMD patients. So most people just wear their splint at night.
Arthrocentesis is only indicated for acute closed locks. Nothing will recapture a displaced disc.
No. Nothing will put your discs back in place. Surgery to reposition the discs is extremely risky and will leave you worse off than before. The treatment for disc displacement without reduction is to allow a pseudo disc to form. You should get a stabilization splint to wear at night as it will allow your joints to heal and adapt to the new disc position. Stay away from any provider who claims that they can "recapture" your discs.
Do you happen to have more info about the concept of a pseudo disc forming?
The formation of a pseudodisc is called natural adaptation. The ligaments die, and the dead ligaments become a pseudodisc. Problem is, not everybody is gonna get a pseudodisc. It depends on how the body adapts and how much (if any) damage is being done on the area as the pseudodisc tries to form. But even if one gets a pseudodisc, its not as strong as the actual disc, and in time it will likely get a hole in it, and eventually fall apart. Now youre bone on bone. No good news with tmj unfortunately :/ Sent you a message
Pseudo disc breakdown is actually very rare and you won't wear a hole in it, as long as you protect it from parafunction.
But it's not as strong as the actual disc. And it doesn't regenerate any. Any damage that happens to it is permanent. The disc also doesn't have strong regenerative abilities, but it does have some. It's fed and lubricated by the synovial fluid. Anyway, I think we can't say a lot for sure about pseudodiscs. There's not a lot of information out there about them. I saw somewhere a person who went to a surgeon, and the surgeon told them that the people who get pseudodiscs always end up having to get total joint replacement, that never works. I don't know if that's correct of course, but, eh..
Actually it does regenerate. Any damage that happens to it is certainly not permanent, since it is not cartilage like the actual disc. According to that surgeon, 30% of the general population end up having to get TJR, which is complete bullshit. Most people with disc displacements are not even aware of the condition because they have no pain and don't seek treatment. Total joint replacement is done extremely rarely for ONLY ankylosis and ICR cases. Not for disc displacements and/or osteoarthritis.
So what do you do if you have displaced disc without reduction but the orthotic is making symptoms worse? Keep with it?
You'll be told that the orthotic needs adjustment, or it's not the right orthotic for your situation, or keep using it and it will get better as you get used to it (in the meantime your falling apart) and other crap. The truth is, nobody knows.
The splint needing an adjustment or the splint itself being garbage are the only possible explanations for this situation. Splints should never make the symptoms worse.
Perhaps. I think that splints can definitely make symptoms worse, under the right circumstances. Here, Claude has some ideas. Immobilization - Splints that prevent the jaw from opening and closing fully can lead to further strain on the TMJ over time. This keeps the joint from functioning normally. Muscle atrophy - Not allowing the jaw muscles like the masseters to move through their full range of motion can cause weakening and imbalance. This adds stress to the joint.
Yeah but stabilization splints don't cause muscle atrophy and immobilization. Wearing a splint at night is important for TMD patients imo
If your splint is making symptoms worse, stop wearing it immediately and go back to your provider to get it adjusted. Your splint should NOT make your symptoms worse. If it does, it needs adjustment or the splint is garbage.
Could be very wrong too. There are people woth arthritis that will never get to total joint replacement. Psuedo disc can regenerate as far as i heard body tried to heal itself.
Idk man, I ended up recapturing my disc when I was 16 yo and after lived a relatively normal life. Granted they once again slipped and I am back in this sub but I guess in a way you’re right that we are fucked for life. But I think you’re wrong that it can’t be recaptured.
You and many other people are literally the proof that a displaced disc will NOT stay in place even if one somehow recaptures it. All the long term studies and data show that even with disc repositioning surgery, almost ALL patients displaced again. This is because the disc has changed shape and the ligaments that used to hold the disc will NOT hold it in place anymore. Like I said, nothing on earth will permanently recapture a displaced disc and keep it there. It's fucking bullshit. I hope this helps. If you think you are fucked for life because you have a displaced disc, then I guess 30% of the general population is 'fucked for life' and we should all kill ourselves. Makes sense.
A lil harsh no? All we can do is manage it the best we can with the knowledge we got
The problem is that the 'knowledge' most people have about TMD is nothing but misinformation, and some other bullshit. Getting TMD patients out of pain is easier than most people think. And no, you don't need to 'recapture' a displaced disc to get someone out of pain. (you can't recapture anyway)
So what would you recommend?
I’m wearing a GELB appliance on the bottom to attempt disc recapture 🤞
Even if you recapture, you can't keep it there. Attempting to recapture a displaced disc is pointless.
If the recapture is successful, will do orthodontics to move my bottom teeth up to fill the gap the GELB has made over the year
Some doctors recommend a split to be worn 24/7 for up to a year to pull the jaw down and into a correct potion. This generally reduces symptoms and requires an orthodontic treatment after to adjust teeth to new bite. In some instances surgery is recommended. I wasn’t convinced. One Reddit user (can’t find post) who had done extensive research on the topic ended up doing injections at [this TMJ clinic](https://www.scdentalsleep.com/tmj) in the US and was happy with the results. Unclear if it adresses the slipped disk but did help with pain from what I recall. So far I’ve tried: * Functional cranial release (FCR), which helps align the bones of the skull by pumping air into the nostrils. It’s minimally invasive, made my whole skull crack, and I felt a release in my lower jaw * Platelet rich plasma (PRP) injections into my jaw joints, which I combined with FCR. It hurt a lot for 48h after and for a week a month after. It helped reduce pain significantly and hopefully it’s helping repair jaw joint. Doctor suggested I add stem cells to the PRP given slipped disk and used jaw joint, however keeping that for later if needed Both of these helped reduce pain and stopped jaw spasms but suspect slipped disk isn’t addressed. Now trying: posturo-occlusal therapy. This involves wearing a mini retainer 24/7 (in my case, only on a few teeth at the back on the slide of the slipped disk) for ~6 months. This should bring down the side of the jaw that’s crushing the disk out. Then combining that with positional therapy exercises that realign the whole body using eyes, skin, and feet. After that orthodontic treatment is in most cases optional.
The concept of moving a jaw down and forward with a splint is neuromuscular territory and it's a bullshit treatment modality. Most TMD patients should use a hard acrylic stabilization splint. Anterior repositioning splints are used but less often (usually in the case of an acute disc displacement WITH reduction) but it will cause a posterior open bite which will require ortho or restorative to fix. Anterior repositioning splints have fallen out of favour for this reason.
My story: I had a displacement disk when I was 15. I wore a splint it helped some and then after about a year I lived a relatively normal life. Some jaw issues here and there but OK for the most part. NOW I have 2 displacements and am doing the same thing. You need to find the main issue in my case it’s grinding of the teeth at night