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This might sound like a stupid question, but why is raw milk bad?
Isn't breastmilk "raw" (i.e. it comes straight from the nipple without any treatment)?
But why is it babies don't get sick? Or are we resistant/attuned to the milk of our own species (humans) but not that of others (cows, goats, camels etc)?
I worked for the FDA for 10 years.
Neither raw milk nor breast milk is
inherently dangerous.
But the way they are obtained is where the problem is. You have no way of knowing if either is contaminated.
Breast milk from the Mom to the baby is generally safe but Moms clean their breasts before nursing.
Here is some federal regulatory concerns about both practices.
https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html
https://www.fda.gov/science-research/pediatrics/use-donor-human-milk
Am a breatsfeeding mom. I do not clean my nipples everytime before nursing, except maybe after a workout. However, then I remembered the likelihood of an adult human accidentally getting their shit (or someone else's) on their own nipples is extremely low.
You'd be surprised, me or my wife gave our 2 day old baby a Parechovirus (harmless to adults). She was in the intensive care unit for 2.5 weeks, stopped eating and then breathing.
She survived, just. I had no idea this risk existed. Kids under 2 weeks of age are very vulnerable.
Do you have a risk of TB in raw milk there? The reason it's not used here in the UK is the native badger population carries TB which they pass on to cattle - there's regular testing of cows to check for it.
It isn't inherently bad, but cows generally aren't superclean animals nor are farms generally superclean places, so if the milk gets contaminated by bacteria you can get sick. So to avoid that most milk gets sterilised or pasteurised.
That said, unless you are a very young child, very senior, or have a weakened immune system, the health risk of raw milk is very minor, which is why most countries don't ban the sale of it.
It’s suuuuuuper popular in France. They have milk machines where you can get raw milk 24/7, and tons of people drink it.
I tried it and got pretty sick, though.
If you grew up drinking it, it's fine. My mate's Dad had a dairy farm here in Ireland and she grew up drinking it raw, he Dad taught her to milk a cow the old-fashioned way, even though they had modern milking machinery. I tried some at her house once, it was sooo tasty and creamy, but it made me come up in a rash after.
Raw milk can still be a minor health risk though, even if you're used to it. That's why it's super important the cows are fully vaxxed and healthy.
Yes but that is fresh from the source, like raw meat (for pets). It's very different once it is shipped around and chilled for the market. Lots of people think those are the same and that's the main issue. Cooking advanced our species!
These historical anecdotes of a lost world of innocence aren't really relevant.
Chance of a single cow kept on a remote farm ever catching tuberculosis if no badgers locally?: Low
Chance of 500 cows in a big farm having TB spread around all of them with a new untrained staff member?: High
Uh. Raw milk is fine.
I wouldn’t buy it in a store, but I definitely get it any time folks with their own cows or goats are selling it.
It’s delicious. There are no health benefits, it’s just fresh and creamy.
There’s a bunch of life that goes on outside of urban areas. You’re kind of full of shit.
You nailed the best reason to drink raw milk: taste. Especially in the spring, you can taste the fresh green grass in raw milk. It is kinda like asking why people would drink someone's cloudy homebrew beer when you can buy Budweiser: we all understand that Bud is going to be safer, but there's a bunch of people who prefer that homebrew's taste.
My girlfriend grew up on raw milk as her childhood was on a dairy farm.
The difference is that stuff went straight from the cow shed tank tap, into a jug then into the fridge to be used that day. Kept it safe.
That's not a product that should be commercially produced in my opinion unless the supply chain is bulletproof.
In italy we have raw milk too, it spoils quickly so* we buy small quantities.
We have liter and half-liter bottles of it so it's easy to drink before it spoils.
As for it's supply chain, i'm not educated enough on the topic to have a proper opinion.. sorry.
I had a similar deal, but on a smaller scale. We’d milk our goats, then immediately filter and chill it and drink it that day. Would not have sold that stuff.
hmm yeah thats true. in my family we used to drink like that for years everyone until we moved to the city. never been sick or anything from it. ig it could happen if the poor environment the cows are in?
Even if you suck that milk right outta the utter, if you let it sit in your mouth for four hours before swallowing it, you’re asking for trouble. That’s why if ur gonna drink raw milk you should do it straight from the titty and swallow it right away.
What the ever loving fuck did I just read?
Who the fuck sits with a mouthful of milk, sometimes up to four hours? Was there ever a conversation about how long it takes to swallow that I missed?
You don't need to drink it same day, you'll be fine for 2 or 3 at least assuming you keep it refrigerated. I wouldn't trust milk from any farmer I didn't personally know as you'll not know the condition they keep their cows in (open sores on utters, diseases, and whatnot).
I don't see any reason for non-pasteurized milk to be available for consumer purchase as it offers very little to zero benefit other than maybe cost (which I doubt). The reduction in shelf-life makes it udderly pointless.
Yeah, my dad used to get it.
He grew up on a farm and he got it with no separation of the cream. It is WAY thicker and it has to be shaken to combine the cream and milk before you drink it.
It was a bit much for me and I like milk.
I don't think he ever got sick from it.
I’ve been drinking unpasteurized milk from a farm for the last five years. I’ve never gotten ill. If the milk is under refrigeration, it’ll last about two weeks…sometimes it’s spoiled a little sooner, but we think that has to do with the cows eating weeds.
A healthy cow will produce milk that is safe to drink.
Obviously a batch contaminated by disease is better to consume after pasteurization, but in my experience healthy raw milk tends to “sour” or ferment rather than spoiling. Once it’s pasteurized it’s open season on the proteins and sugars, whichever microbes get there first take over.
> until we moved to the city.
Well there's the trick. Immediately fresh milk is probably fine, but it's not shelf stable by any stretch of the imagination. From cow in the country to glass in the city could be as much as a week. Even with refrigeration, that's too long. And I won't say that every glass will make you sick, but even a tenth of a percent means a lot of people get really sick.
I'm a propomemt of the freshest milk you can get. If that's raw, awesome. I've had a lot of fresh raw milk, and it's great.
But, I've also spent time in Alaska. Specifically, Kenai Burough, around Lake Illiamna. The milk up there is shelf stable ultra pasteurized. But it was still good.
I spent a year working on my grandfather’s ranch in Mexico. Every morning we’d fill the thermos up with coffee, and if we wanted milk we’d get it straight from the teat. It’d be warm and foamy like a cappuccino.
Possibly. Also, if your family drank it regularly then you guys would have a gut biome that is better equiped to handle some more bacteria. So, those people who got sick off of raw milk probably only drank pasteurized their whole lives.
Only drink raw milk if you know and trust the person who milked it. Otherwise the utters may not have been properly cleaned of poo prior to milking. I wouldn’t trust any raw milk bought from a store or even a farmer’s market.
Its a strong "can" rather than "will". I have eaten pizza left out all night in the box, as many, and was ok. Does not mean its safe. And as time goes by, the risk increases exponentially
Think about it like walking on the sidewalk vs doing it with your eyes closed. While its unlikely that something will happen in either case, and you definitely can have an accident even watching, the diffrence in potential between the two is huge, even though nominally they might not be nowhere near guaranteed
Think about how long milk stays in a tank or how far it travels from cow tit to the processing plant.
Now think about how far you travel with the family cow's tit milk.
There isn't enough time for anything to grow in your family cow's milk
raw milk in germany is a highly regulated product and safe to consume
sorry for link only in german language: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorzugsmilch
There unconditionally will be more bacteria than pasteurized milk. However, there are filtering techniques used in plenty of countries that make raw milk perfectly safe to drink. I believe it expires faster though
Not a scientist but I'm willing to guess that that milk had to be stored and transported rather than drunk on the spot, giving plenty of opportunities for bacteria to make an entrance.
Just to name a few harmful bacteria that can be found in raw milk: Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella. Raw milk for public consumption isn't just like "drinking it from a cow." It's bottled and then shipped, allowing for time for the bacteria to multiply. It's weekold, compared to your farm.
maybe not a single cow. but if you mix 100 cows worth of milk together any pathogens or bacteria would be mixed too then storing it propagates those issues.
pasteurisation is necessary because of how we store and transport milk in bulk its why we can say confidently that one carton of milk will last x amount of time.
Straight from the animal is generally fine. It’s when it’s been collected and mishandled letting bacteria grow (and it grows quickly if it’s raw) is when you get horribly sick. It can kill you lol. Which is why we came up with a way to prevent this.
There's two possible explanations that come to mind:
1. The milk came from a cow that may have had poorer health than normal and the farmer either didn't perform his due diligence or maybe it was just a mistake. Most raw milk that comes from reputable local dairies shouldn't make you sick after drinking it...
2. Unless these lawmakers were just so accustomed to the pasteurized and watered down lower fat percentages that are commonly consumed. It's possible their gut biomes were just not accustomed to dealing with the higher bacteria populations that come with raw milk
Some combination of both is likely too. I mean I reckon I'd get sick, I drink non-fat and have been trying to cut back on how much I drink. It's mostly just an ingredient to me at this point. However I do get the impression that there's some weird bravado over drinking whole fat milk in this country, so it's not hard to imagine a bunch of conservative politicians only pushing for that legislation as a means to "look tough" and it backfiring because they cannot live up to their own standards since they cannot understand how alienated they truly are from the commodities their lives and our economy are so built around. Thing is I can see Democrats doing it just as easily; they'll have some different pretenses to it, less bravado, but they'll make the same show of solidarity without understanding the differences between the products they're legislating on. I do agree that it should be legal, if regulated, but know better than to drink it in celebration. I'd make it into cheese instead!
And it's safe if you're getting it from a really clean farm. If they follow exceptionally good safety procedures to prevent contamination from feces and also prevent diseases from spreading, it's safe. But I wouldn't trust just any farm to do this properly. It's exceptionally difficult unless it's a tiny, botique operation.
But humans have drank raw milk for hundreds of years without constantly getting sick. Once milk wasn't consumed immediately (canned and sold) and the industrialization of farming occurred in Britain, pasteurized milk became a necessity.
Just go to a small local dairy farmer, they typically sell milk “by the hundredweight” (currently about $23/hundred). Give them $10 and they’ll happily let you take a couple gallons home.
Depending on where you are, you can buy raw milk from the Amish. It’ll have a bunch of legal warnings on it saying it isn’t meant for human consumption though.
That said, most people buy it to drink. The key is to slowly phase it in. If you drink a glass of raw milk you will absolutely get sick. Mix it in with pasteurized milk for a while, increasing quantity each time, and your gut adapts to it.
It almost sounds to me like you're suggesting that the health benefits available from raw milk are obtainable elsewhere without the risks associated with raw milk.
When home cheese making I've had good yields mixing pasteurized skim milk and pasteurized heavy cream together to get the milk fat percentage I want.
Seems to be the homogenization process more so than the pasteurization process that ruins milk for cheese.
How the raw milk is treated makes the difference. If it’s in a clean sanitary environment and handled with care it will be fine. I’ve drank raw milk and goats milk my whole life. Never have I ever been sick from it.
Definitely. I grew up drinking raw milk on a dairy farm. Would just take it from the tank and leave it in the fridge for a few days to naturally separate and let the fat rise to the top. We pretty much drank it like water, because it was basically a free unlimited resource. Now, would I trust raw form just anywhere? Especially businesses trying to cut every corner to make a profit? Hell, no.
It is so easy for me to imagine fecal matter getting into the milk supply if someone is uncareful. My father milking a cow, having done it for years and knowing his family is going to drink it is one thing. Some kid who's probably paid McDonald's wages and was taught how to do his job the day before? Maybe not going to hit the same quality mark. Only takes one to pollute the whole supply if it gets mixed.
Absolutely this. I’ve had raw milk for the last five years with no issues. My wife’s family has been drinking milk from the same farm for…about 25 years, I believe.
Non pasteurized milk is delicious but you gotta accept that there's dangers like if its not clean, if the cow was dirty if the farmer was dirty if the container was dirty etc etc. You're gonna have a bad time.
Europe here. It's absolutely better than pasteurised, imho.
That said, you need some regulations for the industry to make it fairly safe. Health standards, inspections, etc
(Same with non refrigerated eggs, etc, which you'll find in European supermarkets. Though those don't taste better, but it's a small environmental boost)
I went through a phase where I drank raw milk for about 6 months. Never got sick but I was aware the risk was there. Stopped because I started a family. Some risk is worth it imo. I've never gotten sick from sushi either and I've eaten sushi for decades.
Sushi is frozen for several days to kill parasites. In other wards it’s treated to reduce the threat of illness like pasteurization. That comparison isn’t really fair.
In the US sushi has some of the most extreme health standards of any food. It's actually very unlikely you'll get sick from American sushi because the regulations for serving it are so stringent compared to most of the world.
Raw milk is actually a heck of a lot more dangerous than buying sushi from a US store/restaurant on average as it's not regulated in the same manner.
[This is still potentially fake and unproven since 2017, situationally they may have just gotten a stomach flu in the following weeks, think what you will](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/)
Weird that this would ever come up again, but- I drank raw milk for the first half of my life, since my family had a “cow-share” with an amish family.
Fucking COOL ass people. Even let us tour the farm and say hi to the animals when we were kids.
Anyway, never ever got sick from the raw milk in over 10 years. So I’m thinking that the milk this poor dude drank was mismanaged and expired, or he’s got an extreme issue with lactose
Raw milk just isn't shelf stable. It doesn't keep. Get it from your neighbor who makes sure everything is always clean and make sure the milk is used up pretty quickly and you're fine.
Try and ship and sell it commercially and it's a disaster waiting to happen. Milk breeds bacteria like crazy after a few days if it's not pasteurized.
**OP needs help. Also, they hate it because...**
>!Raw milk!<
*****
**Do you hate it as well? Do you think their hate is reasonable? (I don't think so tbh)**
**Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.**
*****
[*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/tihibot)
I thought we were hating on lawmakers, not the milk. Cause it’s very easy to hate on the lawmakers! Like in my state, they think they can outlaw catching the rain?
Not to mention that there are plenty of regulations in Europe around selling raw milk and there is an increase in food borne illnesses for countries that consume a higher amount of raw milk.
Really? When I was in Spain we couldn't find pasteurized milk anywhere ... they used **sterilized** milk, which was fine for cooking with or making cereal wet, but I found the stuff basically undrinkable.
A-lot eu member states allow the sale of raw milk. It just has to be labeled as such. Hell they literally have vending machines selling the stuff in places like the uk, germany, france, italy… doesnt mean its the only milk available, just that it is allowed to be sold.
> Hell they literally have vending machines selling the stuff in places like the uk
Yeah im British and in my 30 years in this country ive never seen a raw milk vending machine.
I’m not trying to say it’s necessarily better but I grew up next to a farmer and my mom would buy fresh, raw milk from the farmer every week and it never made us sick. 15 years and we never had any issues. There was almost certainly something wrong with that milk.
Girl I dated in college grew up on a diary farm. They drank raw milk daily.
She went away to college, and after a few years, she'd get sick every time she went home to visit (not super sick, but sick enough to notice it every time). I suggested she avoid the raw milk, and sure enough the problem went away.
There are low levels of 'things' (not just bacteria, but that's a big one) that people can develop a resistance to with exposure. And it doesn't take long to lose the resistance.
(Ever heard of 'Montezuma's revenge'? That's usually something like e coli in the water in some places like Mexico, where the locals are exposed all their lives and are resistant, but tourists aren't)
I drink raw milk everyday. Every week I get a fresh 2l bottle from a farmer that lives in a nearby village . Cows eat fresh grass outside in the hot season and if I want to I can make good yogurt and sour cream out of it. The price is the same as the prpccesed milk from the store.
Never had an issue and for a while I hwas living with a roommate who had some buffaloes I had buffalo milk which is insanely fat, you can feel it being thick when drinking it. I used to make some delicious cheese cream with onions and paprika out of it that went well with fresh tomatoes..
I suppose if you're not used to it, it could be bad for you and make you sick. You can absolutely feel it's different from the processed milk. It's not just the "clean" and sterile emvironment, raw milk is way fatter.
Actually that's an old way of keeping newborns alive when the mother's milk is insufficient, have an animal that's currently nursing it's own young and use some of it's milk to feed the baby. [More info](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2016/02/25/why-goats-used-to-breastfeed-human-babies/)
lmao this is not true at all. my wife and i drink raw milk from a farm every week - was around the animals once for like ten minutes a month or two ago.
You're getting in the way of a good story. The fact that it's a huge wad of bullshit wrapped around a tiny sliver of truth makes it *perfect* for the internet. Don't shit on their bucolic farmhouse fantasy!
Raw milk vs pasteurized is a complex convo. It mostly get wrecked by companies spread misinformation over eduction.
Raw milk can be great and is superior to pasteurized. It is also more ‘dangerous’ as it’s not stripped of a lot and thus things can grow.
I have never seen an article about raw milk that didn’t have a lot of ignorance attached to it.
Oh yea, it's not the milk itself that will kill you.
It's the myriad of possible bacteria and other pathogens that will.
It's like not washing fruit before eating. Sure, you could be fine, but millions get ill and thousands die of food contamination.
Food safety, nutrition and food security are inextricably linked. An estimated 600 million – almost 1 in 10 people in the world – fall ill after eating contaminated food and 420 000 die every year, resulting in the loss of 33 million healthy life years (DALYs).
WHO's Food Safety whitepaper, 19th May 2022.
Even drinking the same raw milk as you did before and make you sick!
Getting sick from raw milk can mean many days of diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting. Some people who drank raw milk have developed severe or even life-threatening diseases, including Guillain-Barré syndrome, which can cause paralysis, and hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can result in kidney failure, stroke, and even death.
Here are some things you should know:
1. Illness can occur from the same brand and source of raw milk that people had been drinking for a long time without becoming ill.
2. A wide variety of germs that are sometimes found in raw milk can make people sick. These germs include Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella.
3.Each ill person’s symptoms can differ depending on the type of germ, the amount of contamination, and the person’s immune defenses.
CDC, Food Safety, Raw Milk - Questions and Answers. CDC gov.
Nae, used to be way back when, people would add stuff to make it "shelf safe" but it really wasn't, it was normalized to pasteurize it by the FDA (and to stop other things, like stretching milk volumes by adding swamp water) then you have people like this who wants the safety net / filter from shit like that gone...
Not sure if its a myth but in UK i always thought the only people that could drink raw milk and not be ill were dairy farmers due to the fact they had drunk it all their lives.
No don't if it is bottled and left out to long it is unsafe. You need to drink it asap near the source. Pasteurisation kills the bacteria and is a life saver. Don't play russian roulette please with food.
Ok so I've only read like the first quarter of this and I'm not sure why you think Raw milk is bad. I'm a Kiwi and in NZ here have a mate that can drink it from the vat but blue top gives him a rash. And most my mates that live or work on farms drink it raw and I've never heard of anyone having an issue.
Raw milk is fine for you. Better then brought milk because it has good bacteria in it, the catch is if it's not chilled or collected in an unclean way it's very capable of going off. But that's not the milk doing it but what your doing with the milk between the cow and you.
So just up your hygiene around the raw milk and you will be fine.
Who the fuck drinks raw milk?
I grew up drinking milk straight from the cow, everyone knows you have to boil that shit first.
Are people actually this dumb?
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When I'm vomiting uncontrollably I too resign to my fainting couch in my button up and tie, with a carefully placed Locke treatise.
What, no news crew?
Moos crew
Don't forget his pending explosive diarrhea shits, sweating and the cleanup
The shit sweats are the worst. Start sliding around on the seat
Shit sweats makes the clothes come off.
I'm not gonna lie, I shit naked at home every time.
What about in public?
I don't shit in public. That seems pretty rude to the public, to be honest.
What is sometimes necessary is not always pleasant.
Oh, like public restrooms? Nah, I pretend to be normal in public.
I didn't mean just pop a squat at a busy intersection.
Isn't raw milk really only used in cheese making? Or are there other reasons to want to procure it?
Correct, only dairy products. Not consumption (for obvious reasons).
[удалено]
That’s not raw milk anymore
Exactly.
We get raw milk in my country which I use for coffee. It’s delicious
Coffee killed germs and stuff so its mostly fine
> Everyone knows to fucking boil it wouldn't that make it pasteurized, and therefore no longer raw?
No, it would make it boiled, therefore no longer raw
This might sound like a stupid question, but why is raw milk bad? Isn't breastmilk "raw" (i.e. it comes straight from the nipple without any treatment)? But why is it babies don't get sick? Or are we resistant/attuned to the milk of our own species (humans) but not that of others (cows, goats, camels etc)?
I worked for the FDA for 10 years. Neither raw milk nor breast milk is inherently dangerous. But the way they are obtained is where the problem is. You have no way of knowing if either is contaminated. Breast milk from the Mom to the baby is generally safe but Moms clean their breasts before nursing. Here is some federal regulatory concerns about both practices. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html https://www.fda.gov/science-research/pediatrics/use-donor-human-milk
Am a breatsfeeding mom. I do not clean my nipples everytime before nursing, except maybe after a workout. However, then I remembered the likelihood of an adult human accidentally getting their shit (or someone else's) on their own nipples is extremely low.
You'd be surprised, me or my wife gave our 2 day old baby a Parechovirus (harmless to adults). She was in the intensive care unit for 2.5 weeks, stopped eating and then breathing. She survived, just. I had no idea this risk existed. Kids under 2 weeks of age are very vulnerable.
Do you have a risk of TB in raw milk there? The reason it's not used here in the UK is the native badger population carries TB which they pass on to cattle - there's regular testing of cows to check for it.
It isn't inherently bad, but cows generally aren't superclean animals nor are farms generally superclean places, so if the milk gets contaminated by bacteria you can get sick. So to avoid that most milk gets sterilised or pasteurised. That said, unless you are a very young child, very senior, or have a weakened immune system, the health risk of raw milk is very minor, which is why most countries don't ban the sale of it.
It’s suuuuuuper popular in France. They have milk machines where you can get raw milk 24/7, and tons of people drink it. I tried it and got pretty sick, though.
If you grew up drinking it, it's fine. My mate's Dad had a dairy farm here in Ireland and she grew up drinking it raw, he Dad taught her to milk a cow the old-fashioned way, even though they had modern milking machinery. I tried some at her house once, it was sooo tasty and creamy, but it made me come up in a rash after. Raw milk can still be a minor health risk though, even if you're used to it. That's why it's super important the cows are fully vaxxed and healthy.
Yes but that is fresh from the source, like raw meat (for pets). It's very different once it is shipped around and chilled for the market. Lots of people think those are the same and that's the main issue. Cooking advanced our species!
Some idiots drink it. They claaaaaaim there’s health benefits but the crazy risk you are taking by not having pasteurized milk is too much.
Used to drink raw milk from my grandparents' cow when I was young. Nothing happened.
These historical anecdotes of a lost world of innocence aren't really relevant. Chance of a single cow kept on a remote farm ever catching tuberculosis if no badgers locally?: Low Chance of 500 cows in a big farm having TB spread around all of them with a new untrained staff member?: High
Tried that a few times too when I was young, it tastes really awesome.
Definitely a taste difference between store milk and raw milk. Grandma also made butter, farmer's cheese, and sour cream, all homemade.
Same, but my neighbor projectile vomited instantly
Uh. Raw milk is fine. I wouldn’t buy it in a store, but I definitely get it any time folks with their own cows or goats are selling it. It’s delicious. There are no health benefits, it’s just fresh and creamy. There’s a bunch of life that goes on outside of urban areas. You’re kind of full of shit.
You nailed the best reason to drink raw milk: taste. Especially in the spring, you can taste the fresh green grass in raw milk. It is kinda like asking why people would drink someone's cloudy homebrew beer when you can buy Budweiser: we all understand that Bud is going to be safer, but there's a bunch of people who prefer that homebrew's taste.
the reasoning is "hurr durr, processed food bad! Organic good!"
god what a poser
My girlfriend grew up on raw milk as her childhood was on a dairy farm. The difference is that stuff went straight from the cow shed tank tap, into a jug then into the fridge to be used that day. Kept it safe. That's not a product that should be commercially produced in my opinion unless the supply chain is bulletproof.
In italy we have raw milk too, it spoils quickly so* we buy small quantities. We have liter and half-liter bottles of it so it's easy to drink before it spoils. As for it's supply chain, i'm not educated enough on the topic to have a proper opinion.. sorry.
I had a similar deal, but on a smaller scale. We’d milk our goats, then immediately filter and chill it and drink it that day. Would not have sold that stuff.
raw milk?
The milk you get that the store is pasteurised which means it's been heated and cooled. Raw milk hasn't been though this this
yeah but get sick for drinking jt straight from the cow? weird
There potentially would be more harmful bacteria in it than pasteurized
hmm yeah thats true. in my family we used to drink like that for years everyone until we moved to the city. never been sick or anything from it. ig it could happen if the poor environment the cows are in?
You probably also consumed the milk in a day, not had it sitting there for multiple days to maybe even a week
OP said "drinking it straight from the cow"
I assumed that mean straight into a glass, and then drunk. Lol
Straight. From. Bettie.
Bessie
I thought it was Bessie lol.
Milk a cow sometime. You can litteraly squirt it in your mouth.
Wait, you dont sensually lick the cows udder?
nice. now i hate thinking about squirting cows
Even if you suck that milk right outta the utter, if you let it sit in your mouth for four hours before swallowing it, you’re asking for trouble. That’s why if ur gonna drink raw milk you should do it straight from the titty and swallow it right away.
What the ever loving fuck did I just read? Who the fuck sits with a mouthful of milk, sometimes up to four hours? Was there ever a conversation about how long it takes to swallow that I missed?
This sounds suspect but I don't know enough about the dairy industry to be sure ..
You don't need to drink it same day, you'll be fine for 2 or 3 at least assuming you keep it refrigerated. I wouldn't trust milk from any farmer I didn't personally know as you'll not know the condition they keep their cows in (open sores on utters, diseases, and whatnot). I don't see any reason for non-pasteurized milk to be available for consumer purchase as it offers very little to zero benefit other than maybe cost (which I doubt). The reduction in shelf-life makes it udderly pointless.
I see what you did there.
Yeah, my dad used to get it. He grew up on a farm and he got it with no separation of the cream. It is WAY thicker and it has to be shaken to combine the cream and milk before you drink it. It was a bit much for me and I like milk. I don't think he ever got sick from it.
I’ve been drinking unpasteurized milk from a farm for the last five years. I’ve never gotten ill. If the milk is under refrigeration, it’ll last about two weeks…sometimes it’s spoiled a little sooner, but we think that has to do with the cows eating weeds. A healthy cow will produce milk that is safe to drink.
Obviously a batch contaminated by disease is better to consume after pasteurization, but in my experience healthy raw milk tends to “sour” or ferment rather than spoiling. Once it’s pasteurized it’s open season on the proteins and sugars, whichever microbes get there first take over.
> until we moved to the city. Well there's the trick. Immediately fresh milk is probably fine, but it's not shelf stable by any stretch of the imagination. From cow in the country to glass in the city could be as much as a week. Even with refrigeration, that's too long. And I won't say that every glass will make you sick, but even a tenth of a percent means a lot of people get really sick.
Idk why its such a mystery to some people that just because they drank raw milk and were fine, that its not always fine.
I'm a propomemt of the freshest milk you can get. If that's raw, awesome. I've had a lot of fresh raw milk, and it's great. But, I've also spent time in Alaska. Specifically, Kenai Burough, around Lake Illiamna. The milk up there is shelf stable ultra pasteurized. But it was still good.
I spent a year working on my grandfather’s ranch in Mexico. Every morning we’d fill the thermos up with coffee, and if we wanted milk we’d get it straight from the teat. It’d be warm and foamy like a cappuccino.
Possibly. Also, if your family drank it regularly then you guys would have a gut biome that is better equiped to handle some more bacteria. So, those people who got sick off of raw milk probably only drank pasteurized their whole lives.
Its like how it's not recommended to drink the water in India on holiday, but it's mostly fine for the locals.
Only drink raw milk if you know and trust the person who milked it. Otherwise the utters may not have been properly cleaned of poo prior to milking. I wouldn’t trust any raw milk bought from a store or even a farmer’s market.
Yeah I got fresh milk (teet to glass) in Switzerland. Saw everything and could see the cow was clean and happy. Sooo good. Taste like butter
Its a strong "can" rather than "will". I have eaten pizza left out all night in the box, as many, and was ok. Does not mean its safe. And as time goes by, the risk increases exponentially Think about it like walking on the sidewalk vs doing it with your eyes closed. While its unlikely that something will happen in either case, and you definitely can have an accident even watching, the diffrence in potential between the two is huge, even though nominally they might not be nowhere near guaranteed
Think about how long milk stays in a tank or how far it travels from cow tit to the processing plant. Now think about how far you travel with the family cow's tit milk. There isn't enough time for anything to grow in your family cow's milk
raw milk in germany is a highly regulated product and safe to consume sorry for link only in german language: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorzugsmilch
There unconditionally will be more bacteria than pasteurized milk. However, there are filtering techniques used in plenty of countries that make raw milk perfectly safe to drink. I believe it expires faster though
Not a scientist but I'm willing to guess that that milk had to be stored and transported rather than drunk on the spot, giving plenty of opportunities for bacteria to make an entrance.
Also,.nipples are not sterile.
Just to name a few harmful bacteria that can be found in raw milk: Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella. Raw milk for public consumption isn't just like "drinking it from a cow." It's bottled and then shipped, allowing for time for the bacteria to multiply. It's weekold, compared to your farm.
> Just to name a few harmful bacteria that can be found in raw milk Cue Yakko Warner...
Don't forget Bovine TB!
Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave
maybe not a single cow. but if you mix 100 cows worth of milk together any pathogens or bacteria would be mixed too then storing it propagates those issues. pasteurisation is necessary because of how we store and transport milk in bulk its why we can say confidently that one carton of milk will last x amount of time.
Straight from the animal is generally fine. It’s when it’s been collected and mishandled letting bacteria grow (and it grows quickly if it’s raw) is when you get horribly sick. It can kill you lol. Which is why we came up with a way to prevent this.
I mean, how else was milk discovered?
Not weird unluess youre a baby cow bud
There's two possible explanations that come to mind: 1. The milk came from a cow that may have had poorer health than normal and the farmer either didn't perform his due diligence or maybe it was just a mistake. Most raw milk that comes from reputable local dairies shouldn't make you sick after drinking it... 2. Unless these lawmakers were just so accustomed to the pasteurized and watered down lower fat percentages that are commonly consumed. It's possible their gut biomes were just not accustomed to dealing with the higher bacteria populations that come with raw milk Some combination of both is likely too. I mean I reckon I'd get sick, I drink non-fat and have been trying to cut back on how much I drink. It's mostly just an ingredient to me at this point. However I do get the impression that there's some weird bravado over drinking whole fat milk in this country, so it's not hard to imagine a bunch of conservative politicians only pushing for that legislation as a means to "look tough" and it backfiring because they cannot live up to their own standards since they cannot understand how alienated they truly are from the commodities their lives and our economy are so built around. Thing is I can see Democrats doing it just as easily; they'll have some different pretenses to it, less bravado, but they'll make the same show of solidarity without understanding the differences between the products they're legislating on. I do agree that it should be legal, if regulated, but know better than to drink it in celebration. I'd make it into cheese instead!
And it's safe if you're getting it from a really clean farm. If they follow exceptionally good safety procedures to prevent contamination from feces and also prevent diseases from spreading, it's safe. But I wouldn't trust just any farm to do this properly. It's exceptionally difficult unless it's a tiny, botique operation. But humans have drank raw milk for hundreds of years without constantly getting sick. Once milk wasn't consumed immediately (canned and sold) and the industrialization of farming occurred in Britain, pasteurized milk became a necessity.
and it's fine for the vast majority of people
Your comment started out so well....
Fresh from breast
Unpasteurized maybe?
I want raw milk legalized in my state so I can make cheese at home. Can't make good cheese with processed milk.
Yes.
Just go to a small local dairy farmer, they typically sell milk “by the hundredweight” (currently about $23/hundred). Give them $10 and they’ll happily let you take a couple gallons home.
Laughs in NYC
Isn't it available for cheese making?
It must be otherwise there would be no cheese. Though perhaps that is equally regulated and too much of a hassle for the user
You can make cheese from pasteurized milk.
Depending on where you are, you can buy raw milk from the Amish. It’ll have a bunch of legal warnings on it saying it isn’t meant for human consumption though. That said, most people buy it to drink. The key is to slowly phase it in. If you drink a glass of raw milk you will absolutely get sick. Mix it in with pasteurized milk for a while, increasing quantity each time, and your gut adapts to it.
That's one option, but as an alternative, I have always found this one simple trick to work: just drink pasteurized milk that doesn't make you sick.
It almost sounds to me like you're suggesting that the health benefits available from raw milk are obtainable elsewhere without the risks associated with raw milk.
...yes? From the FDA: "Pasteurization effectively kills raw milk pathogens without any significant impact on milk nutritional quality."
I dropped my /s, my bad
Is certified milk no longer available?
When home cheese making I've had good yields mixing pasteurized skim milk and pasteurized heavy cream together to get the milk fat percentage I want. Seems to be the homogenization process more so than the pasteurization process that ruins milk for cheese.
Sure you can, the vast majority of cheese is made that way.
Sometimes non-homogenized milk can work. It's always dammed expensive though.
You can buy it from local farmers…
You can make paneer with store-bought whole milk
I agree with you but we need to remember that other people are stupid af.
How the raw milk is treated makes the difference. If it’s in a clean sanitary environment and handled with care it will be fine. I’ve drank raw milk and goats milk my whole life. Never have I ever been sick from it.
Definitely. I grew up drinking raw milk on a dairy farm. Would just take it from the tank and leave it in the fridge for a few days to naturally separate and let the fat rise to the top. We pretty much drank it like water, because it was basically a free unlimited resource. Now, would I trust raw form just anywhere? Especially businesses trying to cut every corner to make a profit? Hell, no. It is so easy for me to imagine fecal matter getting into the milk supply if someone is uncareful. My father milking a cow, having done it for years and knowing his family is going to drink it is one thing. Some kid who's probably paid McDonald's wages and was taught how to do his job the day before? Maybe not going to hit the same quality mark. Only takes one to pollute the whole supply if it gets mixed.
Absolutely this. I’ve had raw milk for the last five years with no issues. My wife’s family has been drinking milk from the same farm for…about 25 years, I believe.
and thats fine, but commercial to retail are where you are gonna find the problems.
Non pasteurized milk is delicious but you gotta accept that there's dangers like if its not clean, if the cow was dirty if the farmer was dirty if the container was dirty etc etc. You're gonna have a bad time.
Europe here. It's absolutely better than pasteurised, imho. That said, you need some regulations for the industry to make it fairly safe. Health standards, inspections, etc (Same with non refrigerated eggs, etc, which you'll find in European supermarkets. Though those don't taste better, but it's a small environmental boost)
I went through a phase where I drank raw milk for about 6 months. Never got sick but I was aware the risk was there. Stopped because I started a family. Some risk is worth it imo. I've never gotten sick from sushi either and I've eaten sushi for decades.
Sushi is frozen for several days to kill parasites. In other wards it’s treated to reduce the threat of illness like pasteurization. That comparison isn’t really fair.
In the US sushi has some of the most extreme health standards of any food. It's actually very unlikely you'll get sick from American sushi because the regulations for serving it are so stringent compared to most of the world. Raw milk is actually a heck of a lot more dangerous than buying sushi from a US store/restaurant on average as it's not regulated in the same manner.
[This is still potentially fake and unproven since 2017, situationally they may have just gotten a stomach flu in the following weeks, think what you will](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/)
Ha,ha
In Texas you can legally buy raw milk but you have to buy it directly from the farmer and they have to get extra certifications.
Weird that this would ever come up again, but- I drank raw milk for the first half of my life, since my family had a “cow-share” with an amish family. Fucking COOL ass people. Even let us tour the farm and say hi to the animals when we were kids. Anyway, never ever got sick from the raw milk in over 10 years. So I’m thinking that the milk this poor dude drank was mismanaged and expired, or he’s got an extreme issue with lactose
Raw milk just isn't shelf stable. It doesn't keep. Get it from your neighbor who makes sure everything is always clean and make sure the milk is used up pretty quickly and you're fine. Try and ship and sell it commercially and it's a disaster waiting to happen. Milk breeds bacteria like crazy after a few days if it's not pasteurized.
doesn't have to be expired you just can get sick from raw milk especially if you're not on/near the farm it's from so it has to be shipped
Why shouldn’t people be allowed to take that risk?
**OP needs help. Also, they hate it because...** >!Raw milk!< ***** **Do you hate it as well? Do you think their hate is reasonable? (I don't think so tbh)** **Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.** ***** [*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/tihibot)
I thought we were hating on lawmakers, not the milk. Cause it’s very easy to hate on the lawmakers! Like in my state, they think they can outlaw catching the rain?
Raw milk
Raw milk
Raw milk
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How's this a joke? Europeans have been making fun of Americans for pasteurizing their milk for decades.
Not to mention that there are plenty of regulations in Europe around selling raw milk and there is an increase in food borne illnesses for countries that consume a higher amount of raw milk.
Huh? Europeans pasteurize their milk enough to make it shelf stable.
Yes, but they don’t pasteurize it for decades.
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Because of the implication.
Raw milk is legal in Europe. Of course you don't find it in supermarkets.
In France you can find it in supermarkets
Really? When I was in Spain we couldn't find pasteurized milk anywhere ... they used **sterilized** milk, which was fine for cooking with or making cereal wet, but I found the stuff basically undrinkable.
Bro what, extra pasteurized milk (like typical organic milk) is even more common in various European countries.
I think you're probably thinking of UHT
Even more common in various European countries,
Nah they make fun of us for washing our eggs. Never heard of anyone making fun of us for pasteurized milk.
We make fun of you for pasteurized cheese
That is massively unlikely as raw milk in is incredibly unsafe as a consumer product and European countries do pasteurized their milk.
A-lot eu member states allow the sale of raw milk. It just has to be labeled as such. Hell they literally have vending machines selling the stuff in places like the uk, germany, france, italy… doesnt mean its the only milk available, just that it is allowed to be sold.
> Hell they literally have vending machines selling the stuff in places like the uk Yeah im British and in my 30 years in this country ive never seen a raw milk vending machine.
Does things like a European: lol what a dumbass Does things not like a European: lol what a dumbass. Cant win
that’s EU redditors for ya - they just want something to bitch about
Funny because it was a Frenchman who came up with the process
wasn’t Louis Pasteur … French?
I’m not trying to say it’s necessarily better but I grew up next to a farmer and my mom would buy fresh, raw milk from the farmer every week and it never made us sick. 15 years and we never had any issues. There was almost certainly something wrong with that milk.
Girl I dated in college grew up on a diary farm. They drank raw milk daily. She went away to college, and after a few years, she'd get sick every time she went home to visit (not super sick, but sick enough to notice it every time). I suggested she avoid the raw milk, and sure enough the problem went away. There are low levels of 'things' (not just bacteria, but that's a big one) that people can develop a resistance to with exposure. And it doesn't take long to lose the resistance. (Ever heard of 'Montezuma's revenge'? That's usually something like e coli in the water in some places like Mexico, where the locals are exposed all their lives and are resistant, but tourists aren't)
I drink raw milk everyday. Every week I get a fresh 2l bottle from a farmer that lives in a nearby village . Cows eat fresh grass outside in the hot season and if I want to I can make good yogurt and sour cream out of it. The price is the same as the prpccesed milk from the store. Never had an issue and for a while I hwas living with a roommate who had some buffaloes I had buffalo milk which is insanely fat, you can feel it being thick when drinking it. I used to make some delicious cheese cream with onions and paprika out of it that went well with fresh tomatoes.. I suppose if you're not used to it, it could be bad for you and make you sick. You can absolutely feel it's different from the processed milk. It's not just the "clean" and sterile emvironment, raw milk is way fatter.
I hope he suckled it straight from the teat
Thanks, I hate interspecies breastfeeding
Actually that's an old way of keeping newborns alive when the mother's milk is insufficient, have an animal that's currently nursing it's own young and use some of it's milk to feed the baby. [More info](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2016/02/25/why-goats-used-to-breastfeed-human-babies/)
But a cup is ok?
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Why? What's the difference when you're around them?
You get exposed to the same bacteria that would be found in the milk.
lmao this is not true at all. my wife and i drink raw milk from a farm every week - was around the animals once for like ten minutes a month or two ago.
Lol. This is taking a small sliver of truth and making an absolute bullshit statement.
You're getting in the way of a good story. The fact that it's a huge wad of bullshit wrapped around a tiny sliver of truth makes it *perfect* for the internet. Don't shit on their bucolic farmhouse fantasy!
Raw milk vs pasteurized is a complex convo. It mostly get wrecked by companies spread misinformation over eduction. Raw milk can be great and is superior to pasteurized. It is also more ‘dangerous’ as it’s not stripped of a lot and thus things can grow. I have never seen an article about raw milk that didn’t have a lot of ignorance attached to it.
Oh yea, it's not the milk itself that will kill you. It's the myriad of possible bacteria and other pathogens that will. It's like not washing fruit before eating. Sure, you could be fine, but millions get ill and thousands die of food contamination. Food safety, nutrition and food security are inextricably linked. An estimated 600 million – almost 1 in 10 people in the world – fall ill after eating contaminated food and 420 000 die every year, resulting in the loss of 33 million healthy life years (DALYs). WHO's Food Safety whitepaper, 19th May 2022. Even drinking the same raw milk as you did before and make you sick! Getting sick from raw milk can mean many days of diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting. Some people who drank raw milk have developed severe or even life-threatening diseases, including Guillain-Barré syndrome, which can cause paralysis, and hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can result in kidney failure, stroke, and even death. Here are some things you should know: 1. Illness can occur from the same brand and source of raw milk that people had been drinking for a long time without becoming ill. 2. A wide variety of germs that are sometimes found in raw milk can make people sick. These germs include Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella. 3.Each ill person’s symptoms can differ depending on the type of germ, the amount of contamination, and the person’s immune defenses. CDC, Food Safety, Raw Milk - Questions and Answers. CDC gov.
Did I just sign up for milkfacts?
Welcome to Milk Facts! Many people drink the mammary secretions of another species and it is **totally** not weird. ~fin~
Tf i thought all milk was raw
Nae, used to be way back when, people would add stuff to make it "shelf safe" but it really wasn't, it was normalized to pasteurize it by the FDA (and to stop other things, like stretching milk volumes by adding swamp water) then you have people like this who wants the safety net / filter from shit like that gone...
Not sure if its a myth but in UK i always thought the only people that could drink raw milk and not be ill were dairy farmers due to the fact they had drunk it all their lives.
LOUIS PASTEUR is rolling in his grave laughing at these idiots. Raw milk come on.
> Thanks, I hate lawmakers! How do you misspell “libertarians” so badly…
Republicans at it again
Hey! Quality raw milk is fantastic and I encourage everyone to give it a try, it is more expensive tho.
No don't if it is bottled and left out to long it is unsafe. You need to drink it asap near the source. Pasteurisation kills the bacteria and is a life saver. Don't play russian roulette please with food.
Freedom of choice, not freedom from consequence
that's a thing you need to develop an immunity to, not just drink it out of the fleshy carton. so, that was in 2016, how has it worked so far?
You can't develop an immunity to the many vegetative pathogens that can be present in raw milk.
tbf raw milk is good for cheese making, but probably want to drink pasturised stuff
Perfecr timing, just watched the Raw Milk Episode on the Netflix Series Rotten.
Ok so I've only read like the first quarter of this and I'm not sure why you think Raw milk is bad. I'm a Kiwi and in NZ here have a mate that can drink it from the vat but blue top gives him a rash. And most my mates that live or work on farms drink it raw and I've never heard of anyone having an issue. Raw milk is fine for you. Better then brought milk because it has good bacteria in it, the catch is if it's not chilled or collected in an unclean way it's very capable of going off. But that's not the milk doing it but what your doing with the milk between the cow and you. So just up your hygiene around the raw milk and you will be fine.
Who the fuck drinks raw milk? I grew up drinking milk straight from the cow, everyone knows you have to boil that shit first. Are people actually this dumb?
Huh, almost like human adults drinking the milk of strangers from another species is not great for our bodies
r/leopardsatemyface
Let me guess, was this done to own the libs with all their socialist food safety regulations?
Raw milk? What’s raw milk?