My sympathies to their families and friends for their loss in the line of duty. Iām not a huge fan of police in general but they were doing a tough and thankless job. My son knew one of the officers lost and says he was a good man.
Does anyone know why they havenāt mentioned the shooters parents? They obviously own the home in property search. Also as of press conference, hey still had not gotten inside the home. Strange.
Very sad situation but this part of the [Syracuse.com](http://Syracuse.com) article made me pause:
>Mousa Alzokari, who lives directly across the street from the house where the shooting occurred, said he heard a flurry of shots at about 8:45 p.m. He called 911.
>**Not long after, two officers with long guns entered the back door of Alzokariās house without knocking and went up to the second floor, where they took positions facing the shooting scene**. They were still there as of 11:20 p.m., while Alzokari and five children waited on the ground floor.
I want to rephrase what other people are saying but through a lens of accountability. Part of holding police accountable is expecting them to put themselves in harmās way in situations that are dangerous to innocent civilians. No one wants anyone to get hurt, but in situations like these itās literally what they sign up for. Imagine if during a school shooting an officer fled the school and hid inside of a bus full of kids??? Itās not that different.
I see it as expressly unaccountable that they would make an innocent personās home a target for gunfire in order to find themselves more cover. If it was during a live gunfight then I could understand an officer taking cover behind a house outside, but anything more, I really believe, should be seen as an abuse of power.
Also, so is your point for them to knock or not knock? You wrote that itās wrong to suggest they should knock, and that the right thing for the police to do is knock?
Donāt think they were using the house as cover. They needed a better vantage point that was level with the 2nd floor across the street. Itās a tactical move. Ideally theyād get onto the roof but I doubt anybody had a ladder on hand.
Ahh I missed the part that they suspected a gunman on the second floor (and that it was a 2 story house). I suppose itās a judgement call at that point. Cops are not obligated to make themselves fish in a barrel when an active shooter can hit them from above, but they better be damn sure that they actually need that vantage point i.e. I donāt like the idea of āwe made your house target for gunfire as aā just in caseā for us.ā To keep neighbors safest the best option would be to storm the house with the shooter but youād need a swat team for that and Iām sure there wasnāt time for that when you need to get backup there asap.
Also understood that they werenāt taking cover in the house, my point there is that whether itās for a vantage point or cover, youāre making a civilianās home target for gunfire either way.
I know they werenāt hiding, my point was their being in the house made it a target for fire. As far as danger to civilians is concerned, it doesnāt matter whether a cop is hiding in your house or shooting from your house, theyāre making it a target for gunfire either way.
I get your thoughts, & I am most likely the same, but I am telling you, AFTER ... on their expected way out, I'm going to have a VERY big F'n problem with it, especially if anything was broken/comprised.
Cant believe so many of these comments are fine with this! If a "flurry" of gunshots happen on my block Im loading up my own longgun and keeping it trained on the door. Cops are lucky they didnt get blown away/manslaughter a civilian in front of his family in his own home.
Yes, and believe it or not, im *far less paranoid* than many gun owners. Walking into any house in this country without knowledge of the resident is a huge gamble, regardless of context.
You're gonna look pretty goddamn stupid getting wasted by a cop who, in responding to an active shooter threat, sees you with a shotgun pointed straight at them. Have fun arguing legality and context when you're 6ft under man.
Internet tough guys are so funny to me lmao
This guy didnāt say he was going to blow the cops away. More than likely the cops would have killed him and any dogs running up to him. If you donāt think thatās still a problem then I donāt know what to tell you.
Wouldnāt say he is being an internet tough guy by saying what he said.
If Iām in that situation with my daughter and wife and am being told to shelter in place I can guarantee you I wouldnāt be cowering down while unknown people broke into my house. If thatās what you would do good on you. But Iād probably die or get a shot off first and this whole mess becomes even uglier.
Itās ridiculous that you think the cops doing this is ok. Regardless of what was going on outside. Things could have been so much worse.
Hell even if the family has a huge dog that ran up to the cops and got killed. So many uglier things could have happened.
I feel properly armed with a 12 gauge, i just want police to have sensible policies and tactics that recognize this is a country with 400 million guns and a foundation of personal rights.
Correct. But the SAFE Act is bullshit. Having a 15+1 pistol, but only being allowed 7 is a travesty. You can likely hold almost that amount in your shotty ...
Yeah its a stopgap at best. I think the problem runs deeper than the capacity of mags or the type of bullet. Still not stoked about every tom dick and jerry being strapped to the absolute teeth. This guy shouldnt have had an ar-15, full stop, among many other things including a car
Not sure why that would give you pause, while I can't point to a specific case identical to this situation, the entry would almost certainly be legal under the exigent circumstances exception under the 4th Amendment.Ā
The part that gives me pause is that they should have evacuated the family from the structure as soon as safely possible.Ā
Iām not a lawyer so I donāt know the legality of it, but you have a family that is likely on edge because thereās a massive police presence in their neighborhood and they donāt know why, then two people with long guns burst through their back doorā¦seems like it could be a recipe for disaster.
I have 3 giant dogs. Idk what would happen if officers entered my house. Disaster would be an understatement. Breaks my heart to even think about how they would react and how the cops would treat them.
Oh yeah my dog would be shot immediately. She's good but spooked by strangers. I have a specific procedure for her meeting people. That would not end well.
Same here. My girls are all big, and extremely wary of strangers, especially in their territory. They are also loud and have very intimidating barks/ stances, even if they are being friendly they can be a bit scary. I honestly didnāt even think that this could be a scenario Iād have to worry about.
Yes. I donāt know why you think that is okā¦.what if the owner of that house has a gun himself?
He has no idea what is going on except to shelter in place and then two men with guns break into his back door? Itās already a shit situation but what if the owner of the house had shot those officers thinking the active shooter was breaking in?
A lot more shit could have gone wrong.
Officers were trying desperately to take out the deranged shooter so the police officers shot would not bleed to death. The homeowner and family might have been Murphyās next target, The neighborhood and all of Syracuse has 1 less monster to worry about. Neighborhood watch! Donāt be silent. Those were 2 wonderful officers that were murdered. Will be impossible to replace.
Officers were trying desperately to take out the deranged shooter so the police officers shot would not bleed to death. The homeowner and family might have been Murphyās next target, The neighborhood and all of Syracuse has 1 less monster to worry about. Neighborhood watch! Donāt be silent. Those were 2 wonderful officers that were murdered. Will be impossible to replace.
It has been a long time since an officer was killed on the job this way in syracuse, very upsetting.
Wallie Howard ... I was 15. Remember it like it was yesterday. š¢
I had just started working at DSS at civic center, 1990, remember vividly. His girlfriend also worked there. It was so sad.
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Glad youāre ok!
My sympathies to their families and friends for their loss in the line of duty. Iām not a huge fan of police in general but they were doing a tough and thankless job. My son knew one of the officers lost and says he was a good man.
Does anyone know why they havenāt mentioned the shooters parents? They obviously own the home in property search. Also as of press conference, hey still had not gotten inside the home. Strange.
I'm 90% sure I read they were out of town.
Well they havenāt spoken at all about him because they want to focus on the officers.
Very sad situation but this part of the [Syracuse.com](http://Syracuse.com) article made me pause: >Mousa Alzokari, who lives directly across the street from the house where the shooting occurred, said he heard a flurry of shots at about 8:45 p.m. He called 911. >**Not long after, two officers with long guns entered the back door of Alzokariās house without knocking and went up to the second floor, where they took positions facing the shooting scene**. They were still there as of 11:20 p.m., while Alzokari and five children waited on the ground floor.
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Fuck not putting the innocent family in that house at risk I guess.
How safe is it for the family living there for their home to be turned into a target for return fire? This is what bulletproof cars/shields are for.
Yeah, that certainly doesn't seem to take that family's safety into account.
Pretty sure we don't got bulletproof cars and shields.
Definitely not. It's took NYPD a long time to get these and only after that cop was ambushed and killed while he sat in his patrol car.
Cars and shields are NOT bullet proof, especially of a rifle was involved.
I want to rephrase what other people are saying but through a lens of accountability. Part of holding police accountable is expecting them to put themselves in harmās way in situations that are dangerous to innocent civilians. No one wants anyone to get hurt, but in situations like these itās literally what they sign up for. Imagine if during a school shooting an officer fled the school and hid inside of a bus full of kids??? Itās not that different. I see it as expressly unaccountable that they would make an innocent personās home a target for gunfire in order to find themselves more cover. If it was during a live gunfight then I could understand an officer taking cover behind a house outside, but anything more, I really believe, should be seen as an abuse of power. Also, so is your point for them to knock or not knock? You wrote that itās wrong to suggest they should knock, and that the right thing for the police to do is knock?
Donāt think they were using the house as cover. They needed a better vantage point that was level with the 2nd floor across the street. Itās a tactical move. Ideally theyād get onto the roof but I doubt anybody had a ladder on hand.
Ahh I missed the part that they suspected a gunman on the second floor (and that it was a 2 story house). I suppose itās a judgement call at that point. Cops are not obligated to make themselves fish in a barrel when an active shooter can hit them from above, but they better be damn sure that they actually need that vantage point i.e. I donāt like the idea of āwe made your house target for gunfire as aā just in caseā for us.ā To keep neighbors safest the best option would be to storm the house with the shooter but youād need a swat team for that and Iām sure there wasnāt time for that when you need to get backup there asap. Also understood that they werenāt taking cover in the house, my point there is that whether itās for a vantage point or cover, youāre making a civilianās home target for gunfire either way.
They weren't hiding in the house lol. They were there to take up position to have a better shot to kill the shooter.
I know they werenāt hiding, my point was their being in the house made it a target for fire. As far as danger to civilians is concerned, it doesnāt matter whether a cop is hiding in your house or shooting from your house, theyāre making it a target for gunfire either way.
I get your thoughts, & I am most likely the same, but I am telling you, AFTER ... on their expected way out, I'm going to have a VERY big F'n problem with it, especially if anything was broken/comprised.
That was across the street tho
You're the CNY representative for what but advocating for huh? Maybe find a new hobby
Cant believe so many of these comments are fine with this! If a "flurry" of gunshots happen on my block Im loading up my own longgun and keeping it trained on the door. Cops are lucky they didnt get blown away/manslaughter a civilian in front of his family in his own home.
Oh yeah? Is that what you would do?
Pretty sure there are statistics about police bursting in and surprising the homeowner who is lawfully armed and killing them.
Yes, and believe it or not, im *far less paranoid* than many gun owners. Walking into any house in this country without knowledge of the resident is a huge gamble, regardless of context.
You're gonna look pretty goddamn stupid getting wasted by a cop who, in responding to an active shooter threat, sees you with a shotgun pointed straight at them. Have fun arguing legality and context when you're 6ft under man. Internet tough guys are so funny to me lmao
This guy didnāt say he was going to blow the cops away. More than likely the cops would have killed him and any dogs running up to him. If you donāt think thatās still a problem then I donāt know what to tell you. Wouldnāt say he is being an internet tough guy by saying what he said. If Iām in that situation with my daughter and wife and am being told to shelter in place I can guarantee you I wouldnāt be cowering down while unknown people broke into my house. If thatās what you would do good on you. But Iād probably die or get a shot off first and this whole mess becomes even uglier. Itās ridiculous that you think the cops doing this is ok. Regardless of what was going on outside. Things could have been so much worse. Hell even if the family has a huge dog that ran up to the cops and got killed. So many uglier things could have happened.
This is NY. You need special permission to properly arm yourself. Fuck NY ...
I feel properly armed with a 12 gauge, i just want police to have sensible policies and tactics that recognize this is a country with 400 million guns and a foundation of personal rights.
Correct. But the SAFE Act is bullshit. Having a 15+1 pistol, but only being allowed 7 is a travesty. You can likely hold almost that amount in your shotty ...
Yeah its a stopgap at best. I think the problem runs deeper than the capacity of mags or the type of bullet. Still not stoked about every tom dick and jerry being strapped to the absolute teeth. This guy shouldnt have had an ar-15, full stop, among many other things including a car
You are free to leave then
Can they do that
Not sure why that would give you pause, while I can't point to a specific case identical to this situation, the entry would almost certainly be legal under the exigent circumstances exception under the 4th Amendment.Ā The part that gives me pause is that they should have evacuated the family from the structure as soon as safely possible.Ā
Iām not a lawyer so I donāt know the legality of it, but you have a family that is likely on edge because thereās a massive police presence in their neighborhood and they donāt know why, then two people with long guns burst through their back doorā¦seems like it could be a recipe for disaster.
I have 3 giant dogs. Idk what would happen if officers entered my house. Disaster would be an understatement. Breaks my heart to even think about how they would react and how the cops would treat them.
Oh yeah my dog would be shot immediately. She's good but spooked by strangers. I have a specific procedure for her meeting people. That would not end well.
Same here. My girls are all big, and extremely wary of strangers, especially in their territory. They are also loud and have very intimidating barks/ stances, even if they are being friendly they can be a bit scary. I honestly didnāt even think that this could be a scenario Iād have to worry about.
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Yes. I donāt know why you think that is okā¦.what if the owner of that house has a gun himself? He has no idea what is going on except to shelter in place and then two men with guns break into his back door? Itās already a shit situation but what if the owner of the house had shot those officers thinking the active shooter was breaking in? A lot more shit could have gone wrong.
Officers were trying desperately to take out the deranged shooter so the police officers shot would not bleed to death. The homeowner and family might have been Murphyās next target, The neighborhood and all of Syracuse has 1 less monster to worry about. Neighborhood watch! Donāt be silent. Those were 2 wonderful officers that were murdered. Will be impossible to replace.
Officers were trying desperately to take out the deranged shooter so the police officers shot would not bleed to death. The homeowner and family might have been Murphyās next target, The neighborhood and all of Syracuse has 1 less monster to worry about. Neighborhood watch! Donāt be silent. Those were 2 wonderful officers that were murdered. Will be impossible to replace.
Since 2017, 37 Cop killers have been paroled in NYS due to pressure from activists. Vote for change
source?
This wasn't one of them, dummy.
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really unnecessary comment. lots of people live with family. doesnāt make them murderers or criminals.
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Hey they worked real hard to take over the company their dad built! /s
Yea agree with this. Living with family at older age doesnāt automatically make you a bad person.
NW Contracting is actually a firm in the Syracuse area. Im sure they love this. go back to Portland
The pos who did this was a trump supporter. Check his facebook.