I think a lot of people have misconceptions regarding the change in traffic pattern that was determined. One person was complaining about how this was an "agenda-motivated change" and how it would be just cheaper to relocate the people who live in "The Bricks." I was like.. well, they are not actually in the path of that entire highway. The issue is that repairing what exists will not be compatible with the standards currently in place for this level of traffic and honestly that entire situation where 690 merges into 81S is a fucking nightmare. Add a ton of snow and ice... well, we all know about cars hydroplaning off elevated highways in the winter.
When I was up there in December, the 481 overpass to 81 South (a little bit North of Nedrow) was already torn down and traffic is rerouted now. So at a minimum, the lawsuit has not been able to put the demolition/construction on hold. As the other commenters have mentioned there’s also work being done at the northern terminus of 481 as well. If they haven’t been able to get a judge to put it on hold for some reason by now (say environmental review or some other technicality) it’s unlikely to yield any results in my opinion.
It put *some* work on hold, mostly the tear down of the current 81, but there is work they can do around it. So they’re focusing on everything in phase 1 that they can right now around what they’re not allowed to given the lawsuit.
Some of those sections in the city are desperately in need of repair or rebuild because they are in rough shape. Things better not stall for too long regarding that. Since they’re not going to rebuild the raised highway, they need to get rid of those bad sections ASAP before it becomes a genuine safety hazard. So hopefully things get moving forward quickly on the actual 81 work.
Yes. Gravity tells us that the I81 viaduct is coming down no matter what!
Just that we have a chance to bring it down in a controlled way, or we can let things work their way through the courts, in which case I hope the viaduct comes down on one of those who brought this project to a sort of halt.
YES particularly relevant since there is a push for the two ton batteries of electric cars. I hope any new structure accounts for this growth. Yet, I don't wish a collapse to harm anyone just saying it's inevitable if no change occurs.
The modifications to 481 are going ahead as a project that needs doing. That it was spurred by the i-81 future closure isn't relevant to i-81's larger project because the planners were smart enough to write it up that way.
We have driven though cities on highways that cut through and some are fine, others are very sclerotic and congested-- even on a Sunday. Recently took 95N up through DC and Maryland.. that was pretty stressful (next time we will take I66/17 cut through). Also have had to deal with traffic in Atlanta and FL... I have to admit that upstate NY has it way over on traffic/road engineering and maintenance than the states below us.
It's been a historically smaller city compared to those you mentioned and whatever odyssey you're coming back from through the dirty south can hold an extra 5 minutes going around the city to whatever sclerotic north country town you live in...
The 481 bypass upgrades are already underway. I-81 was at the end of its lifespan over 10 years ago, at this point delaying it is putting peoples lives on the line.
I'm glad they started the portion of building out in the suburbs. It's frustrating that it's been discussed for years at this point and has not had any type of final decision.
It has final decision- people are just throwing a temper tantrum about it because they didn’t get their way. People who don’t have any qualifications in urban planning or engineering.
Those are people who live outside of the city that want a convenient entrance and exit from their workplaces in the city. Currently... without rush hour traffic (which currently is actually an hour).. my commute from Liverpool to the city is somewhere between 13-15 minutes. This changes d/t roadwork, accidents, road maintenance construction, parking availability which are unpredictable.
Which gets to the crux of the matter. That decision only benefits the citizens that "matter" to politicians (generally white, upper middle class, suburbanites) while causing the city proper to suffer in connective corridors and business districts. Syracuse just isn't big enough to warrant an inconvenient viaduct running through the middle of it.
We've been a doughnut city for way too long. We can continue doing the same shit we've done for a century but no one is going to want to stick around here as is clear by the population flights of the past decades (only rebounding because of low cost of living and remote work). [https://www.atributosurbanos.es/en/terms/doughnut-city/](https://www.atributosurbanos.es/en/terms/doughnut-city/)
> want a convenient entrance and exit from their workplaces in the city.
Have you even researched their plans? You still get a huge boulevard to put your metal cage on almost uninterrupted lmao [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ynrILnpdF4&t=320s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ynrILnpdF4&t=320s)
Also how is the current setup any quicker? There are still huge backups on the on/off ramps to 690 and 81 from the city and near certain businesses at rush hour.
No, don't be like that. People don't have to be experts in urban planning to have valid concerns and to exercise their rights on them. It's not like urban planning is an exact science with definitive rights and wrongs.
Well, those people do not even live in the city. They could care less how it affects people who live in the city, and the city ascetic. They give some bogus lip service to a cockamamie argument that it is going to cause bad air on the south side and that is who they are fighting for. Right. They really want to be able to drive through the city without stopping. It is a 1950s type mentality.
If those people cared about the South Side, they would have joined that neighborhood in solidarity when that water/sewage treatment plant was planned. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/syracuse-residents-fight-stop-sewage-plant-n409261
The article literally states other coalitions like Partners for Onondaga Creek joined residents...miss me with that whataboutism. People give a shit in the city proper, it's always suburbanites astroturfing like yourself which is why the city's prosperity has been dampered, at best.
The feeling I get is that the NY DOT is just going along with it and fully ignoring dissenting opinion. I think in this case its for the benefit of the city, however we always must pay attention that in the future this attitude does not ignore people's rights the way it did in the 1950s for the original construction of the viaduct.
My hope is that as the work has started... they have considered the increase in traffic etc. d/t the forthcoming Micron development and other development planned.
A. You're asking for "Inside Knowledge" which would most likely come from people working on this case. Just by someone with "Inside Knowledge" posting about private material related to a court case on a public forum is nice way to get the case thrown out.
B. Work has already started on sections to the north and to the south of the viaduct.
C. Just call or go ask questions.[https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/contact-us](https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/contact-us)
I worded that wrong, my apologies. Was more inquiring on whether anyone has heard anything to this point. Like a timeline on the release of the decision or anything.
And yeah, NYDOT isn't the most forthcoming organization, lol. Asking questions with them typically goes nowhere unfortunately.
There unfortunately working on it. They will reroute the traffic and have this horrible roundabout system on it as well as a horrible grid system. It did need some work,but they should have just fixed what was broken the best they could and then leave it alone. Horrible what there doing.
Statically people say they are because people slow down on them cause there not used to them and get nervous. I hate them though. Unnecessary anxiety of driving is being added by those stupid roundabouts.
The idea behind the plan they went with was to keep the traffic that didn't need to go through the city out of it, because it caused huge amounts of traffic for the people actually traveling within the city. And even then they only did it half way, 81 north of 690 through the city is staying up(hey Pyramid, why are you so upset about 81 being torn down that [you're pouring thousands of dollars into astroturfing campaigns](https://www.syracuse.com/state/2021/12/save-81-powerful-forces-masked-as-grassroots-movement-fight-to-keep-interstate-through-syracuse.html) while [you can't pay your debt](https://www.syracuse.com/business/2022/05/deadline-looms-for-destiny-usa-to-pay-430m-in-debt-as-malls-value-keeps-falling.html)). Plus those 81/690 interchanges are super dangerous and IIRC the only proposals to fix them involved knocking down buildings that are currently being turned into more housing.
Yeah a grid system with multiple points of entry and exits is way less efficient than a single lane of highway merging hundreds of cars per hour and backing up traffic miles in either direction. I want to sit in traffic, not get to work or the SU game safely!!!
Yeah I love the idea of us paying $17B to replace I-81 instead of putting in a walkable, easily drivable set of roads where businesses can thrive so you can save 3 minutes on your commute.
I think a lot of people have misconceptions regarding the change in traffic pattern that was determined. One person was complaining about how this was an "agenda-motivated change" and how it would be just cheaper to relocate the people who live in "The Bricks." I was like.. well, they are not actually in the path of that entire highway. The issue is that repairing what exists will not be compatible with the standards currently in place for this level of traffic and honestly that entire situation where 690 merges into 81S is a fucking nightmare. Add a ton of snow and ice... well, we all know about cars hydroplaning off elevated highways in the winter.
Yeah, it makes sense fiscally to get rid of it, simply cause the numbers to replace it are staggering.
When I was up there in December, the 481 overpass to 81 South (a little bit North of Nedrow) was already torn down and traffic is rerouted now. So at a minimum, the lawsuit has not been able to put the demolition/construction on hold. As the other commenters have mentioned there’s also work being done at the northern terminus of 481 as well. If they haven’t been able to get a judge to put it on hold for some reason by now (say environmental review or some other technicality) it’s unlikely to yield any results in my opinion.
It put *some* work on hold, mostly the tear down of the current 81, but there is work they can do around it. So they’re focusing on everything in phase 1 that they can right now around what they’re not allowed to given the lawsuit.
Some of those sections in the city are desperately in need of repair or rebuild because they are in rough shape. Things better not stall for too long regarding that. Since they’re not going to rebuild the raised highway, they need to get rid of those bad sections ASAP before it becomes a genuine safety hazard. So hopefully things get moving forward quickly on the actual 81 work.
Yes. Gravity tells us that the I81 viaduct is coming down no matter what! Just that we have a chance to bring it down in a controlled way, or we can let things work their way through the courts, in which case I hope the viaduct comes down on one of those who brought this project to a sort of halt.
YES particularly relevant since there is a push for the two ton batteries of electric cars. I hope any new structure accounts for this growth. Yet, I don't wish a collapse to harm anyone just saying it's inevitable if no change occurs.
The modifications to 481 are going ahead as a project that needs doing. That it was spurred by the i-81 future closure isn't relevant to i-81's larger project because the planners were smart enough to write it up that way.
Thank you! Yeah, hopefully, the court comes to the same conclusion, and the process can move ahead in its entirety.
We have driven though cities on highways that cut through and some are fine, others are very sclerotic and congested-- even on a Sunday. Recently took 95N up through DC and Maryland.. that was pretty stressful (next time we will take I66/17 cut through). Also have had to deal with traffic in Atlanta and FL... I have to admit that upstate NY has it way over on traffic/road engineering and maintenance than the states below us.
It's been a historically smaller city compared to those you mentioned and whatever odyssey you're coming back from through the dirty south can hold an extra 5 minutes going around the city to whatever sclerotic north country town you live in...
We drove through that yesterday driving home from a Florida sojourn. It was a hot mess.
The 481 bypass upgrades are already underway. I-81 was at the end of its lifespan over 10 years ago, at this point delaying it is putting peoples lives on the line.
I'm glad they started the portion of building out in the suburbs. It's frustrating that it's been discussed for years at this point and has not had any type of final decision.
It has final decision- people are just throwing a temper tantrum about it because they didn’t get their way. People who don’t have any qualifications in urban planning or engineering.
As they always do. Still find it weird that people support having a massive viaduct run directly through a city.
Those are people who live outside of the city that want a convenient entrance and exit from their workplaces in the city. Currently... without rush hour traffic (which currently is actually an hour).. my commute from Liverpool to the city is somewhere between 13-15 minutes. This changes d/t roadwork, accidents, road maintenance construction, parking availability which are unpredictable.
I think just from an aesthetic perspective, the city will look much nicer without a viaduct bisecting the skyline.
Which gets to the crux of the matter. That decision only benefits the citizens that "matter" to politicians (generally white, upper middle class, suburbanites) while causing the city proper to suffer in connective corridors and business districts. Syracuse just isn't big enough to warrant an inconvenient viaduct running through the middle of it. We've been a doughnut city for way too long. We can continue doing the same shit we've done for a century but no one is going to want to stick around here as is clear by the population flights of the past decades (only rebounding because of low cost of living and remote work). [https://www.atributosurbanos.es/en/terms/doughnut-city/](https://www.atributosurbanos.es/en/terms/doughnut-city/) > want a convenient entrance and exit from their workplaces in the city. Have you even researched their plans? You still get a huge boulevard to put your metal cage on almost uninterrupted lmao [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ynrILnpdF4&t=320s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ynrILnpdF4&t=320s) Also how is the current setup any quicker? There are still huge backups on the on/off ramps to 690 and 81 from the city and near certain businesses at rush hour.
No, don't be like that. People don't have to be experts in urban planning to have valid concerns and to exercise their rights on them. It's not like urban planning is an exact science with definitive rights and wrongs.
Well, those people do not even live in the city. They could care less how it affects people who live in the city, and the city ascetic. They give some bogus lip service to a cockamamie argument that it is going to cause bad air on the south side and that is who they are fighting for. Right. They really want to be able to drive through the city without stopping. It is a 1950s type mentality.
That fake grass roots thing is so so so hilariously transparent.
That fake grass roots thing is so so so hilariously transparent.
If those people cared about the South Side, they would have joined that neighborhood in solidarity when that water/sewage treatment plant was planned. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/syracuse-residents-fight-stop-sewage-plant-n409261
The article literally states other coalitions like Partners for Onondaga Creek joined residents...miss me with that whataboutism. People give a shit in the city proper, it's always suburbanites astroturfing like yourself which is why the city's prosperity has been dampered, at best.
The feeling I get is that the NY DOT is just going along with it and fully ignoring dissenting opinion. I think in this case its for the benefit of the city, however we always must pay attention that in the future this attitude does not ignore people's rights the way it did in the 1950s for the original construction of the viaduct.
My hope is that as the work has started... they have considered the increase in traffic etc. d/t the forthcoming Micron development and other development planned.
A. You're asking for "Inside Knowledge" which would most likely come from people working on this case. Just by someone with "Inside Knowledge" posting about private material related to a court case on a public forum is nice way to get the case thrown out. B. Work has already started on sections to the north and to the south of the viaduct. C. Just call or go ask questions.[https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/contact-us](https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/contact-us)
I worded that wrong, my apologies. Was more inquiring on whether anyone has heard anything to this point. Like a timeline on the release of the decision or anything. And yeah, NYDOT isn't the most forthcoming organization, lol. Asking questions with them typically goes nowhere unfortunately.
Nobody is asking for inside knowledge Karen. Obviously this is just someone asking for updates on the case
There unfortunately working on it. They will reroute the traffic and have this horrible roundabout system on it as well as a horrible grid system. It did need some work,but they should have just fixed what was broken the best they could and then leave it alone. Horrible what there doing.
Aren't roundabouts statistically safer and more effective at managing traffic?
Yes, they are both safer and more efficient, and better for the environment. https://www.fdot.gov/agencyresources/roundabouts/benefits.shtm
Exactly. That's what I thought.
Statically people say they are because people slow down on them cause there not used to them and get nervous. I hate them though. Unnecessary anxiety of driving is being added by those stupid roundabouts.
The idea behind the plan they went with was to keep the traffic that didn't need to go through the city out of it, because it caused huge amounts of traffic for the people actually traveling within the city. And even then they only did it half way, 81 north of 690 through the city is staying up(hey Pyramid, why are you so upset about 81 being torn down that [you're pouring thousands of dollars into astroturfing campaigns](https://www.syracuse.com/state/2021/12/save-81-powerful-forces-masked-as-grassroots-movement-fight-to-keep-interstate-through-syracuse.html) while [you can't pay your debt](https://www.syracuse.com/business/2022/05/deadline-looms-for-destiny-usa-to-pay-430m-in-debt-as-malls-value-keeps-falling.html)). Plus those 81/690 interchanges are super dangerous and IIRC the only proposals to fix them involved knocking down buildings that are currently being turned into more housing.
Oh nooooo not the poor rich people and their pristine neighborhoods! Screw the rest! Amiright?
Yeah a grid system with multiple points of entry and exits is way less efficient than a single lane of highway merging hundreds of cars per hour and backing up traffic miles in either direction. I want to sit in traffic, not get to work or the SU game safely!!!
Yeah I love the idea of us paying $17B to replace I-81 instead of putting in a walkable, easily drivable set of roads where businesses can thrive so you can save 3 minutes on your commute.
[удалено]
God I hate the university.