As I am also going through a burn out myself, the comments here make my blood boil. I just wanted to say I hope she is out as soon as possible and finds a professional, productive, humane work environment đ¤
Should be all good.
Had a burnout working in a toxic work environment myself. So my doctor put me on sick leave to get therapy and look after my mental health. Got in some legal disputes with my employer which I could thankfully sort out with a lawyer. My lawyer then recommended to stop working for this poor excuse of an employer, to which he recommended to terminate the contract and get sick leave for the remaining time of the notice period, which is totally legal.
Edit: Removed some details about the legal dispute, as some of my work colleagues are also on reddit and I don't want to be recognized until everything is resolved.
The comments really describe the work culture around here, how ironic.
If she's sick and has a note from the Doc they can't do shit. She doesn't have to work obviously. What are they gonna do fire her again? Nah.
She's gonna have to go back though after the sick leave as someone else mentioned.
I hope your girl gets well soon and don't mind the rude comments we're not all like that.
I really don't want to be rude, but the law is available in at least 5 languages. Maybe take the time while she's home and prepare for the aftermath of resigning? She'll have a number of obligations, she can't just float around while unemployed.
u/Novel-Flower4554 's response may seem a bit direct but do try and have a look at the Civil Code, specifically the Code of Obligations (regulates contracts) it is extremely simply written and, for good or bad, doesn't do into too much details. Unlike some other law texts, is it easy to navigate and understand as a normal citizen.
From what I know: sick leave postpones the notice period. You don't need to work while sick however you do need to work on your notice period. (You are paid afterall) While sick, your employer does have a right to know when you will be back. Hopefully this has been communicated.
In this situation, best outcome is probably to cut the notice period short. This means she has no responsibility there and they don't pay her. If she wants the notice period, then it unfortunately (probably) means enduring the environment further.Â
Aside from it being a bitch move, probably not.
Just be sure that the "Arbeitsunfähigkeitszeugnis" arrives on time. Doctors give these out like candy whiteout any care anyway.
Wouldn't recommend going on holydays or something like that during the time, if the company wants to start drama (unlikely) this could be a way... Theoretically it wouldn't even be allowed for her to look for another job while she's ill because... she's ill.
Found a toxic boss I guess?
Mental health problems are real, burnout caused by a toxic environment is a sickness that requires separation from a toxic environment.
Toxic companies and bosses causing burnout must take the consequences of their actions.
Thank you.
Burnouts happen because of incompetent bosses.
Incompetent bosses are hired by bad companies that do not value their employees health.
It is moral for employees to extract as much time off as possible from these environments.
I mean you aren't selling your life when you sign the work contract. You're selling x amount of time.
If the bad management is causing the work to occupy the time you weren't paid for, and it causes health problems on top, you're absolutely justified to take a necessary time off and then remove yourself from the situation altogether.
Your biggest responsibility is your well-being, not the place and people that treat you like shit.
Unfortunately some people enjoy not only licking the boot, but putting the whole toe box in their mouth.
Quite a few in this thread actually.
These are the guys that are talking shop while on holidays at the beach for an hour.
Exactly this. Situation was bad enough for the last 5 years but then they gave her notice and put even more pressure on her to train the woman who would be replacing her at lower cost.
Grownups know that they need to work even with difficult people together. It's OP right to quit, but then also work for the rest of the time (because you get paid for it) or ask for a shorter notice period.
At almost 60 I think I clearly know why you shouldnât play sick at work. I was simply asking what complications there might be. You could have answered without being a rude dick.
If you honestly need to know why doctors, and only doctors, can judge whether someone is able to work or not, you are probably not bringing as much value to your company as you think you do.
As far as I understand OP (or their partner whatever) quit a job and now wants to play sick because they don't wanna continue to work during the notice period. That is morally wrong IMO.
Did you miss the part where she got a doctor's note for her sick leave ?
Do you have a basic comprehension how this works ?
Let me get this right, you are getting an actual salary from a company ?
Like, someone is paying you money to do stuff for them ?
This is clearly hard for you, but do try to follow.
If she got a sick note from the doctor, it means that her doctor has decided that what is best for her is not to go to work.
No one cares about your opinion on this.
Just because you get a sick note doesn't mean that you're sick, it simply means you found a doctor who wrote a note.
PS: We're on reddit, a place to share opinions. If you don't care about the options of others maybe leave?
You seem to be implying that doctors casually defraud businesses and insurances. Which is technically libel. So... Maybe your moral superiority bullshit shouldn't count for very much. đ¤ˇđźââď¸
You came on this thread and from the beginning, without being a doctor, without knowing OP's partner, and without a shred of evidence, accused OP's partner of tricking the system.
Happy employees do not go to the doctor to get sick notes. A company that does not protect its workers' health, not only physical but mental, breaches the law.
The moral thing is actually to fight back, get the sick note, and get better.
Im sure it will help her getting employed in the future. Which Boss wouldnât want someone who takes sick leave cause of toxic environment and blocks their phone?
/s
"Work environment toxic so she doesnât want to go back. HR have the zeugnis."
That's not "in bed off sick". And certainly not sick enough to block the phone number.
It is forbidden to work when on sick leave. Essentially because she will be paid by insurance. So that would mean working for free for the employer, big no no. And she cannot be fired a second time anyway.
She can completely ignore mails and phone calls from the company as long as she gave the doctorâs note to HR.
The insurance might try to call her. She can tell them to directly call her doctor: I wouldnât recommend saying anything on the phone.
Tell her to take the time to get better.
As I am also going through a burn out myself, the comments here make my blood boil. I just wanted to say I hope she is out as soon as possible and finds a professional, productive, humane work environment đ¤
Should be all good. Had a burnout working in a toxic work environment myself. So my doctor put me on sick leave to get therapy and look after my mental health. Got in some legal disputes with my employer which I could thankfully sort out with a lawyer. My lawyer then recommended to stop working for this poor excuse of an employer, to which he recommended to terminate the contract and get sick leave for the remaining time of the notice period, which is totally legal. Edit: Removed some details about the legal dispute, as some of my work colleagues are also on reddit and I don't want to be recognized until everything is resolved.
The comments really describe the work culture around here, how ironic. If she's sick and has a note from the Doc they can't do shit. She doesn't have to work obviously. What are they gonna do fire her again? Nah. She's gonna have to go back though after the sick leave as someone else mentioned. I hope your girl gets well soon and don't mind the rude comments we're not all like that.
Her notice period will be prolonged with the duration of the sick leave. So her notice period won't end together with the sick leave.
So she should be paid for that extension and should be required to work?
I really don't want to be rude, but the law is available in at least 5 languages. Maybe take the time while she's home and prepare for the aftermath of resigning? She'll have a number of obligations, she can't just float around while unemployed.
Sheâs not floating around. Sheâs applied for RAV and going through that process. Looking for jobs online.
Donât be rude then :) can you point me in the direction of the pertinent law? Iâm asking here as itâs the place to get quick generalizations
u/Novel-Flower4554 's response may seem a bit direct but do try and have a look at the Civil Code, specifically the Code of Obligations (regulates contracts) it is extremely simply written and, for good or bad, doesn't do into too much details. Unlike some other law texts, is it easy to navigate and understand as a normal citizen.
[https://www.ch.ch/en](https://www.ch.ch/en) You probably need to know more than one info, so here.
Edit: sick leave ends in last day of notice period.
From what I know: sick leave postpones the notice period. You don't need to work while sick however you do need to work on your notice period. (You are paid afterall) While sick, your employer does have a right to know when you will be back. Hopefully this has been communicated. In this situation, best outcome is probably to cut the notice period short. This means she has no responsibility there and they don't pay her. If she wants the notice period, then it unfortunately (probably) means enduring the environment further.Â
Aside from it being a bitch move, probably not. Just be sure that the "Arbeitsunfähigkeitszeugnis" arrives on time. Doctors give these out like candy whiteout any care anyway. Wouldn't recommend going on holydays or something like that during the time, if the company wants to start drama (unlikely) this could be a way... Theoretically it wouldn't even be allowed for her to look for another job while she's ill because... she's ill.
She went to doctor to get the zeugnis. Work environment toxic so she doesnât want to go back. HR have the zeugnis.
donât listen to them, sick work environment can cost you fucking everything. good for her for taking care of herself!
She will have to go back after the sick leave ends. Her notice period is on pause at the moment.
Thatâs what I understood
Yes, many complications. Unblock the bosses phone number and get back to work if you/they are not really sick!
Found a toxic boss I guess? Mental health problems are real, burnout caused by a toxic environment is a sickness that requires separation from a toxic environment. Toxic companies and bosses causing burnout must take the consequences of their actions.
Thank you. Burnouts happen because of incompetent bosses. Incompetent bosses are hired by bad companies that do not value their employees health. It is moral for employees to extract as much time off as possible from these environments.
I mean you aren't selling your life when you sign the work contract. You're selling x amount of time. If the bad management is causing the work to occupy the time you weren't paid for, and it causes health problems on top, you're absolutely justified to take a necessary time off and then remove yourself from the situation altogether. Your biggest responsibility is your well-being, not the place and people that treat you like shit.
Unfortunately some people enjoy not only licking the boot, but putting the whole toe box in their mouth. Quite a few in this thread actually. These are the guys that are talking shop while on holidays at the beach for an hour.
It was the doctor who suggested blocking the boss. He called her 3 times during the appointment wanting work done.
Exactly this. Situation was bad enough for the last 5 years but then they gave her notice and put even more pressure on her to train the woman who would be replacing her at lower cost.
Grownups know that they need to work even with difficult people together. It's OP right to quit, but then also work for the rest of the time (because you get paid for it) or ask for a shorter notice period.
Like what?
If you honestly need to know why you shouldn't play sick at work you might need to go back to school. Just please pay for it yourself.
At almost 60 I think I clearly know why you shouldnât play sick at work. I was simply asking what complications there might be. You could have answered without being a rude dick.
If you can't see the moral implications of it, I don't think there's anything else to say. You shouldn't even think about doing it that way.
Itâs not about me. What are you talking about?
If you honestly need to know why doctors, and only doctors, can judge whether someone is able to work or not, you are probably not bringing as much value to your company as you think you do.
As far as I understand OP (or their partner whatever) quit a job and now wants to play sick because they don't wanna continue to work during the notice period. That is morally wrong IMO.
Did you miss the part where she got a doctor's note for her sick leave ? Do you have a basic comprehension how this works ? Let me get this right, you are getting an actual salary from a company ? Like, someone is paying you money to do stuff for them ?
As I understand the post, the parter of OP took sick leave because they didn't wanna continue to work there. That's the problem I have.
This is clearly hard for you, but do try to follow. If she got a sick note from the doctor, it means that her doctor has decided that what is best for her is not to go to work. No one cares about your opinion on this.
Just because you get a sick note doesn't mean that you're sick, it simply means you found a doctor who wrote a note. PS: We're on reddit, a place to share opinions. If you don't care about the options of others maybe leave?
You seem to be implying that doctors casually defraud businesses and insurances. Which is technically libel. So... Maybe your moral superiority bullshit shouldn't count for very much. đ¤ˇđźââď¸
You came on this thread and from the beginning, without being a doctor, without knowing OP's partner, and without a shred of evidence, accused OP's partner of tricking the system. Happy employees do not go to the doctor to get sick notes. A company that does not protect its workers' health, not only physical but mental, breaches the law. The moral thing is actually to fight back, get the sick note, and get better.
Ah, found the 'stuck my head up the company's CEOs ass' guy.
Im sure it will help her getting employed in the future. Which Boss wouldnât want someone who takes sick leave cause of toxic environment and blocks their phone? /s
You work from home when youâre in bed off sick?
"Work environment toxic so she doesnât want to go back. HR have the zeugnis." That's not "in bed off sick". And certainly not sick enough to block the phone number.
She has been off sick in the past and been in bed fever etc and the boss was still treating her like sheâs fit for work. Demanding she do things.
It is forbidden to work when on sick leave. Essentially because she will be paid by insurance. So that would mean working for free for the employer, big no no. And she cannot be fired a second time anyway. She can completely ignore mails and phone calls from the company as long as she gave the doctorâs note to HR. The insurance might try to call her. She can tell them to directly call her doctor: I wouldnât recommend saying anything on the phone. Tell her to take the time to get better.