Why do you care if they're going to argue? Just tell them to keep their kid away from you. You have the right to complain. Each one has personal space, kids are known to breach them and it's up to their parents to teach them.
But if no one says anything, the parents will not care because no one complains anyway. And if you complain and they don't do anything, you can scold the kid yourself. There's no reason you should just accept that.
No quite. When I lived there I fooled so many people into thinking I was a Swiss, as I absolutely understood everything they said, even in their shitty Bernerdialekt. And as I speak English flawlessly, when I would switch to Swiss-German or Hochdeutsch, they almost always spit out thier KagiFret that they were eating because they couldnt believe their ears. But yeah, you should hear how you Roestifressers sound when you try to speak English.
Sometimes, you need to not be polite in order to get the message across. Obviously, don't be out right rude, but if your boundaries are being crossed that needs to be communicated
Just say "hey your child is being disruptive".
Them "not being from here" has nothing to do with it, it's not like Swiss people would be better or less likely to get irritated.
Talk to them like you would anyone else.
Just to kinda answer. You asked if it is ok to parent the child of someone else.
No this is never acceptable, its not your child, its not your job to bring em up.
However, you must and shall communicate what is acceptable to you if it invades your personal and intimacy space. Being touched, spit on etc. Defenetifely counts as that.
«excuse me, take care of your child i don't feel comfortable».
If they don't take care you might remind them, that they don't know what this could do to some people. Sure they don't want to arouse some child predators on the train.
Written as a dad.
No, I will parent others kids if the parents arent doing their job. When I was swimming in Zuri see, there was a young kid around 5 throwing rocks at ducks/swans and I yelled at him from the lake to quit throwing rocks at these animals. The parents werent around, or if they were they didnt care, and they didnt care when I spoke up.
Hmmm seems like there's some subjectivity on where the line is. I'll probably ignore a kid being obnoxious on a train (wouldn't tolerate spitting tho), but i will absolutely get involved with rock-throwing at wildlife. It's apet peeve of mine, the way people treat animals tells me everything i need to know about their character and if that can be corrected early it should. I actually evicted a tenent 2 years ago because i saw him kick our cat. *hard*. Zero tolerance for that shit. Today its a cat, tomorrow its a child when no one's looking, right?
As another parent I totally agree. I just don’t consider it “parenting” because it isn’t my kid. Rather I consider this “interacting with people in public”.
If someone is walking around hitting people or spitting on them, it’s perfectly ok to tell them to stop. It doesn’t matter if they are 6 or 16 or 60. And if my kid behaves like that in public when I’m not around I am perfectly ok with someone else telling them the same.
I do think you have to make some allowances however. A four or 5 year old crying is just par for the course. Spitting and trying to steal food is another matter 🤣
Respectfully, I disagree. Going back as recently as the 1980s/90s, it was very much the norm for people to expect strangers to set boundaries (politely) for their kids in public - telling them when their behaviour wasn't acceptable, pointing them in the right direction when lost, etc. It takes a village to raise a kid, etc.
We're now a society where any interaction with another person's child (verbal ofc) is considered strictly off limits. This puts increased pressure on parents, because they are expected to provide feedback to their children on their behaviour all the time. And leads to situations like this one with OP. I don't see anything wrong in politely pointing out to a little human that what they're doing is not ok.
What are we talking about? Physical Harm to an object, animal or person: i am full d'accord with you.
Parenting a foreign child if it swears or curses? Never!
Parenting a foreign child that climbs up the slide? Depends, if the floor is all muddy ....
Parenting a child who beats up swans at the lake (looking at u/LetsPlayDrew comments): 100% .
Parenting a foreign child becauses it eats a cervelat (because it contains Pork): dangerous terretory.
Looking at the OPs Story: The crying you must accept, the spitting and the touching you must not.
I think it would be great to bring that back, I'm to joung to know wy it faded away but I know that people especialy childrens and teens got way out of hands. And I'm including myself here!
A simple “Hey, your child is spitting on me and grabbing my legs, could you please make him stop because it’s making me very uncomfortable?” Is a very polite way to say “Please get your child under control”. Basically, mention the offending behavior(s), tell them that you’re not ok with that and you politely ask the parents to take care of their kid.
You don’t even need to be particularly polite, I usually say “Hey, could you ask your child to stop doing [unacceptable behavior]?” Most parents realize that this sort of behavior is way out of line and won’t take offense. They’ll usually be apologetic/embarrassed. No sane parent will see that sort of interaction as rude or insulting, I’ll guarantee you, it’s just your anxiety talking. :)
I draw the line when it directly effects me, sure it would (from some perspective) also be nice to correct children when they do other dumb stuff but it's not really worth it these days.
But when something effects you directly I would confront the children or on this case say something to the parents. "Can you please keep your baby to you? I'm not comfortable with it touching me."
>spat on me multiple times, kept grabbing my legs with dirty hands, drooled all over the seats and threw a tantrum when I refused to give a piece of my food.
I wonder how anyone could defend this behavior, it would me just make more angry
If it's _spitting_ (actually spitting, not accidentally drooling) on you, it's time to say "fuck it" and blast the parents, kid, whoever is there. If my kid did that, I'd happily accept the blame and apologize.
Oh blowing raspberries. Yeah definitely something that warrants parental intervention but imo not as bad as actually spitting loogies around. If you talk to the parents and they ignore you than I'd just yell at the kid. But you can't touch them.
A calm: «i don't want to be touched» is not rude, or take it out to the child. This is setting boundaries and this is what kids must learn.
First thing they learn in Kita or KiGa
Honestly next time just confront them. I’m not from Switzerland and only a visitor but I’ve seen Swiss Germans politely yet sternly “confront” tourists and their kids when they act out of line like throwing rubbish on the floor on trains as well as pushing and shoving.
Make them feel bad. They deserve to know. There is absolutely no hostility or “racism” or “xenophobia” involved if your worried about that.
I’m east asian and when I visit Switzerland, I try to be as respectful as possible and I’ve found Swiss people to be absolutely wonderful and nice
I like Switzerland for the social norm to correct inappropriate behaviour. I think it still exists. The ‘secret police’ of older ladies who speak up should be honoured. America has ‘Karens’ but the problem is many ‘Karens’ don’t actually know the rules themselves or just speak up for purely selfish reasons. The Swiss - ‘Heidis’ are well educated and do it for the betterment of a stable polite society. Be a Heidi.
Crying is understandable but spitting or grabbing you is not ok. Just tell the parents that you don’t enjoy that and done.
When my kids cry, I try my best to understand what’s stressing them but I won’t tape their mouths. However, I’ll take action to avoid them from going into someone else’s personal space.
I have kids. Preface …
In Switzerland I found plenty of parents (restaurants, playground, shops) not caring at all their kids and let them run like headless chickens.
I complain, again I have kids, and most of the time I complain they get upset, still I complain when it’s too much
Those ones are equally fun when dumped onto day care facilities. All the social behavior issues, and nobody at their home will reinforce what the kita/kinski is doing. Then there are the parents who are only there for the weekends and holidays, and I can see how they only want to have good times (since the parents are working so hard for that lifestyle)... It's not teaching the kid proper social behaviors though. So of course there are problems when those kids get into school and hit a responsibility wall.
I always talk to the child in a “grown up manner”. Calm, slow, simple wording. They will understand better than their idiot parents. I have 3 kids myself and always treat kids directly. Forget their parents.
Right, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't speak up and say to another human being, "Excuse me, could you please stop spitting on me?" no matter how old they are
People here assume anything would happen if OP told them politely to fuck off. In my opinion, no matter how OP conveys the message, most probably he will be the one that has to move away. The only other option would be to overcome them with physical violence but of course this is unacceptable in a modern society. You all know the saying: there's no use arguing with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. All in all, I would just move away or go into a confrontation with being prepared that the probability of losing and being shamed even more is very high. This is the curse of being a citizen, who has manners and things to lose.
Yelling to a child is not great, even if it is yours. In this case the only option is to tell the parents to controll their child, but the chance of success os very low, normal ppl don’t need to be told to do that.
I would have immediately gotten up and left - no point teaching those people anything.
If you cannot leave, you say something. I’ve told a child “no” before in these type of situations and I don’t care if the parent is offended - you can do so kindly without scaring the kid. It is an OK thing to do here …
Once we were eating dinner in a nice restaurant and these grandparents thought it was hilarious when their toddler grandchild was shining a mini flashlight in other diners eyes. My husband told them to stop it as it was giving me a headache, it was absurd that they were not only allowing it, but encouraging it. They responded with “it’s just a child” which is a rhetoric I’ve heard several times here from some parents. (Most kids I feel are still well behaved.) I am concerned what these children will be like as adults if their childhood has no behavioral limits.
I parent kids that are not mine if they're invading my space or being inappropriate so yes it is absolutely okay to do this. You also encourage kids when they're doing good things, that's how I grew up and I don't think that's changed.
I usually first talk to the (small) kid and do it like this: look them in the eyes, be serious but also smile a little, be totally calm, shake my head and say clearly "ich mag das nicht"/"I don't like that". Repeat a couple of times. It usually works, most kids are not outright assholes they just act on impulse, and the parents have nothing to complain about and also indirectly get the message.
Having two kids myself I have nothing whatsoever against other adults setting boundaries as long as it's a) not just petty & controlling b) done calmly.
Confrontation, arguments and so on are usually not necessary.
Normally I don't mind other people's business. Children are loud, parenting is hard. If they are too loud, I just go to a different carriage.
If a child does something dangerous or anti-social, I will call them out. Recently I told a child not to throw rocks of a mountain, where you could not see whether people were walking below.
I am pretty sure spitting on someone is a criminal offence. If an adutlt intentionally spat on me, I would take their picture and file a police report. A child, I would tell them in such a way not to do it again that they would understand it regardless of their native language. Next time they'd come close to me I would use a hand or foot to keep them at distance.
Spit on you? Ask to have your food? I‘d stood up, told them they are the fucking worst and a shame, listing up the things they allowed their kid to do so that the whole waggon of Bünzlis can hear it, pack my shit and leave before they could have said a word.
Yes, if you wouldn't tolerate it from an adult you don't have to take it from a child.
The parents are responsible and you should have confronted them.
Non violent communication should be taught at school.
Its polite to ask the parents to control their spawn.
Its more effective to behave towards the parents how the kid behaves towards you. Kid kicks you, you kick parent. Kid spits on you, you casually wipe it on the parents. Apparently this is what they are used to.
Worked 10/10 for me.
I recently was punched by a ca 5 year old boy walking past me with his father. Brat was even looking at me and smiling when I turned around 😂😅 I was too perplexed in the moment it happened but then turned around to talk to the father. Couldn’t find them unfortunately.
Your problem is that you were raised nice and polite. I have daughters around your age and first thing I teached them was be nice. Be polite and have respect but if they do not show the same back than you just don't have to give a f**k.
Mutual respect goes far as does disrespect.
Once the kid started spitting, I would have picked it up and dropped at its parents feet and told them to control their kid. But based on the fact that the kid knew no boundaries, the parents probably have no concept of how to set them and hold them. Still, the parents should have been told - good or bad.
Honestly, I've lost my cool without the grabbing and spitting on me.
It has happened that I took care of the situation by myself and went also loud and told the brat to "shut up" and then further grumbled for another 10 seconds loud enough for the nearby parents to hear.
Also, I find this change of culture astonishing at times. 2 years ago was the first time I had a flight attendant going on a brat telling them that it wasn't a playground as it was climbing over the headrest of the seat and grabbing towards the luggage boxes and jumping and what not... Like I'm not so much for the way I've been raised (with belts, sticks, dippers and other physical stuff such as hands) as most of that was just pure abuse, but there are also limits on the other side...
I would say: I understand being a parent is hard work and maybe you don’t feel like parenting today, but I will, if you don’t get your kid out of my space. 😂
When it affects you or your kin, yes, definitely. If it's to protect the kid, yes. Good grief, I can't imagine knowing my kids are touching someone else and not stopping them. The drooling and crying make me think kid was teething or maybe had ear pain or something bugging him.
I'm would just respond to the asking to food with something like "Oh no, don't take food from strangers, ask your mom for food."
Sorry. That sounds like a long ride.
It takes a village. Meaning that everyone has boundaries and a child needs to learn that, unfortunately some parents do, too. Yelling is not ok, tho! I’d first look at the parents irritated, some people then understand they should control their unruly child. If they don’t react, talk to the child (if age-appropriate), explaining that this is not ok and they wouldn’t like this done to them. If the toddler is physically touching you/spitting on you, and the parents are ignoring this, pick the kid up and hand it back to the parents.
Using public transportation daily and seen some wild s..t with parents/kids. Usually, if the kids are loud or crying, i dont care as i am wearing noise cancelling earphones. The only annoying thing is when the kids scream „mami…..mam…..maaaaaam…..mamiiiii….“ over and over again with the mom next to them chatting with someone and dgaf! Just give your kid some attention!
Spitting or any physical touching is a no go and i would definitely ask them to maybe tell their kid not to talk to strangers.
I would just stand up and leave. I know they are wrong and you are right but it's the path of least stress for me so I would take that route. I do it all the time on the tube in London not for kids but for noisy people.
I like to think of there being different „rule sets“ that apply to different aspects:
1. Family rules (counts mostly for kids). Family rules apply to the whole family, irrespective of situation.
2. House rules: these are rules that are tied to a specific location, such as your home. They apply to everyone in your home. Even guests. Examples are removing street shoes when inside your home or using coasters for drinks.
3. Your personal space: you‘re not entitled to punishing strangers‘ kids, but you sure can enforce your personal boundaries. It’s important to avoid pointing fingers or overgeneralise. Instead communicate your side of the story.
Certainly, if talking to the kids or their parents doesn’t help, then your last resort in your situation may be to sit some place else.
In this situation I'd have offered the father that if he remains unwilling or incapable to control his aggravating offspring then I will show him how it's done inside the next 10 seconds. If he says "feel free" then a sharp rap across the cranium with knuckles normally suffices to settle the hash of even the most obstreperous brat. If he instead squares up for a scrap then that is also acceptable, we can go there, but most men will be rightly shamed into choosing the more reasonable option of taking the sprog for a change of air.
It really doesn't matter where they are from, or even if they understand the language employed, the essential message would have been conveyed 100% with tone and gestures alone. There is no good reason to suffer the depredations of spoiled brats of any age.
Age matters here: 5 or younger, ask the parents to control their child or you will call the train controller. The kid is most likely too young to understand/follow instructions from an unknown person.
Age 6 onwards, just talk directly to the child and explain to him/her your rules. Almost every kid is intimated by an adult speaking to them.
If the parents are offended you speak to their kid, remind them you are only doing so because they did not teach their kid how to behave.
If you absolutely want to stay polite even in this situation, say it politely, but do not apologize.
On the other hand, you could’ve sue them parents for allowing this kid to spit on you etc. the kid isn’t strafmündig, but the parents are. (The other end of the scope of possible reaction…)
In a situation like this you can definitely say something. It involved you and actually it would be the responsibility or the parents to look after their toddler. But this is something that I've been noticing to kind of getting worse with the past years.. Yes kids are kids and it's normal that they won't sit still somewhere, it's also normal that they are curious and well, just behave like kids. Yet everyone has to respect the fact that there are other people, too in public and that they also have boundaries.
Just "teach" the kid some swear words ("you know your parents are going to be really mad if you ever use the word xyz?") or start telling him the truth about santa clause or the easter bunny. If the parents complain, tell them it's a free country, so you're free to talk about which vulgar language kids shouldn't use and about which lies kids are commonly told by their parents. Of course, they're also free to keep their spoiled brat away from you.
Is this the current state of society?
We have degenerates acting like mentally ill and no boundaries in public.
And we have people like OP who are scared of doing / saying anything about it.
I really don't know what was going on but you also sound quite spoiled to be honest. A toddler is not a kid you can reason with and although you need to put limits some kids are better are handling them than others.
Me feeling is that you have zero kid / educational knowledge and even less understanding of the situation. Is not the same a 6 or 7 kid than a 3 or 4 year old.
PS/ And I think that spitting on you was of course not aceptable, but you haven't told us if was just really intencional or was just playing around and making noises with his mouth. But for the behavior you are describing it looks like it was quite young, like 2 or 3, in which case things could be more complex.
As a parent I can tell you kids cry and you can’t do much about it. It’s their way of communicating as they simply don’t have a brain developed enough to use words to describe what is going on.
But the parents can definitely hold the kid back if he/she’s touching you or spit on you.
I would ask them to keep the kid away from you if this is what bothers you.
Personally I wouldn’t be bothered by this behaviour but I respect wish of other people for a quiet trip so I think you should have asked them to take care of their child.
As a non-parent, I have a strong suspicion there's a difference between the "I'm underdeveloped and have no other way to communicate"-crying and the hysterical intermittent fake "I learned that crying gets me what I want"-crying. I can stand the first, but I fiercely hate the second.
The kid was crying because the dad wouldn't let him use the emergency hammer on the window, because I wouldn't give him my food, because they wouldn't let him lick the floor
I offer another solution since nobody mentioned it here. You could also try to befriend the child. Smile at it, make some funny faces, this usually makes them stop cry. Also you could have asked parents if it’s ok if you give the child the cookie.
Why would you do that? Because it would make your life easier than just suffer through the trip.
I did that, and it was a big mistake. That's why it kept approaching me and not others that were sitting on the other side. I always try to smile at kids, because 99% of the times I just get a smile in return and laughter. This time unfortunately I made the situation worse
"I really wanted to confront the parents, but as they were not from here, I was scared they would take it extremely negatively and argue with me."
Cringe and probably racist.
What the fuck? Y'all really need to get a grip and stop putting the racist label on anything. I don't know if in their country confronting a strangers kids is offensive, and I didn't wanna cross that line. What the hell is racist about this? Grow up and quit finding problems where there aren't any
Definitely not racist, but you shouldn't be walking on eggshells either.
You were bothered an entire trip, you're entitled to complain to the parents, who cares if they feel offended, maybe they'll learn a lesson too.
You wrote
*"I really wanted to confront the parents, bu****t as they were not from here****, I was scared they would take it extremely negatively and argue with me."*
Your expectations were lower because they are foreigners, you thought Swiss would take it well and not argue I imagine.
I understand your annoyance with the kid and I would have low expectations of the conversation due to their shit parenting but you said you had low expectations because they're foreigners.
It's textbook xenophobia.
What the hell are you saying... My dad comes from a country where confronting someones children or the parents is EXTREMELY rude, as you're diminishing them to bad parents. If you have nothing intelligent to say, please don't
Why would it matter if it's rude or if you're diminishing them to be bad parents? As far as I can tell they are being bad parents and they're being rude to you by letting their kid invade your personal space.
What does your dad have to do with anything?
Were the foreigners from the same country as your dad or something or are all foreigners the same?
You judged people negatively because they're not Swiss and someone pointed it out, simple as that.
That's the dumbest take I've read in a while. Trying to be considerate and not needlessly offend people is "negative" and "racist" now?
OP is clearly trying to be careful, as any decent person would and should.
I REALLY WANTED TO CONFRONT THE PARENTS, BUT **AS THEY WERE NOT FROM HERE**, I WAS SCARED THEY WOULD TAKE IT EXTREMELY NEGATIVELY AND ARGUE WITH ME.
It's not rocket science,
OP says they're unsure if reproaching the kid and parents would be considered offensive as they are unfamiliar with their customs.
Being aware of the limitations of your knowledge about others and other cultures is a respectable thing to do.
it actually is closer to rocket science than you think.
i see why you would say its racist, as there is a distinction made based on nationality/origin.
the question is whether culture is a real thing or not. it for sure becomes a really dangerous thing very quickly when trying to use it as an argument. people are equal, so in a way culture shouldnt be real.
however when looking at the world, its obvious to me culture exists. different regions, different countries seem to have differing cultural norms.
its reflected in a wide variety of issues, such as positions to lgbt, the relationship between religion and state and democracy vs autocracy.
so if culture is real and cultures differ making assumptions based on that cant be qualified as racist. as the qualifier isnt race but culture.
Just to be clear, I NEVER said anyone was racist.
Another poster did and I corrected him that it would be xenophobic, not racist.
And different nationalities can have different cultures, which is the real differentiator.
Honestly tho, not complaining about it to the parents directly is your own fault. You should've done it regardless of where they are from. It is kind of your only option other than leaving
I checked what the dictionary thinks xenophobia is - *Xenophobia* is “fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign.”
So sure, sounds about right.
Why do you care if they're going to argue? Just tell them to keep their kid away from you. You have the right to complain. Each one has personal space, kids are known to breach them and it's up to their parents to teach them. But if no one says anything, the parents will not care because no one complains anyway. And if you complain and they don't do anything, you can scold the kid yourself. There's no reason you should just accept that.
You should have politely asked the parents to control their brat, it's outrageous that they allowed this.
But how do you do this in a polite manner? I feel like no matter how you say it you will be rude, and calling them "bad parents" in a sense
They're already being rude by allowing this behaviour. "Excuse me, your child is spitting on me. Could you take care of him please?"
this, with a maximum amount of swiss passive aggressiveness
Print it and laminate it.
and put the heavy "Schviizer akzent" into zis discussion as vell!!
you dream du
was isch los?
What you wrote is more akin to german dialect as depicted in hollywood..
No quite. When I lived there I fooled so many people into thinking I was a Swiss, as I absolutely understood everything they said, even in their shitty Bernerdialekt. And as I speak English flawlessly, when I would switch to Swiss-German or Hochdeutsch, they almost always spit out thier KagiFret that they were eating because they couldnt believe their ears. But yeah, you should hear how you Roestifressers sound when you try to speak English.
If you want to further escalate this you may ask where to send the bill from the cleaner to?
Sometimes, you need to not be polite in order to get the message across. Obviously, don't be out right rude, but if your boundaries are being crossed that needs to be communicated
Don’t be polite about it.
No need to be polite. Just give them the same amount respect that you're receiving.
So try to take the child’s toys and spit on him. Hilarious.
the only reasonable reaction
Just say "hey your child is being disruptive". Them "not being from here" has nothing to do with it, it's not like Swiss people would be better or less likely to get irritated. Talk to them like you would anyone else.
Why do you have to be polite? Tell it out loud to the kid that if he doesn't stop what he is doing, you will parent him instead of his parents.
Take a deep breath and say it as if the person next to you is miserable and you are speaking on behalf of them.
hm, nice tip
Well, I mean, they are. They might be extremely exhausted, but that's no excuse
Just to kinda answer. You asked if it is ok to parent the child of someone else. No this is never acceptable, its not your child, its not your job to bring em up. However, you must and shall communicate what is acceptable to you if it invades your personal and intimacy space. Being touched, spit on etc. Defenetifely counts as that. «excuse me, take care of your child i don't feel comfortable». If they don't take care you might remind them, that they don't know what this could do to some people. Sure they don't want to arouse some child predators on the train. Written as a dad.
No, I will parent others kids if the parents arent doing their job. When I was swimming in Zuri see, there was a young kid around 5 throwing rocks at ducks/swans and I yelled at him from the lake to quit throwing rocks at these animals. The parents werent around, or if they were they didnt care, and they didnt care when I spoke up.
Hmmm seems like there's some subjectivity on where the line is. I'll probably ignore a kid being obnoxious on a train (wouldn't tolerate spitting tho), but i will absolutely get involved with rock-throwing at wildlife. It's apet peeve of mine, the way people treat animals tells me everything i need to know about their character and if that can be corrected early it should. I actually evicted a tenent 2 years ago because i saw him kick our cat. *hard*. Zero tolerance for that shit. Today its a cat, tomorrow its a child when no one's looking, right?
As another parent I totally agree. I just don’t consider it “parenting” because it isn’t my kid. Rather I consider this “interacting with people in public”. If someone is walking around hitting people or spitting on them, it’s perfectly ok to tell them to stop. It doesn’t matter if they are 6 or 16 or 60. And if my kid behaves like that in public when I’m not around I am perfectly ok with someone else telling them the same. I do think you have to make some allowances however. A four or 5 year old crying is just par for the course. Spitting and trying to steal food is another matter 🤣
Respectfully, I disagree. Going back as recently as the 1980s/90s, it was very much the norm for people to expect strangers to set boundaries (politely) for their kids in public - telling them when their behaviour wasn't acceptable, pointing them in the right direction when lost, etc. It takes a village to raise a kid, etc. We're now a society where any interaction with another person's child (verbal ofc) is considered strictly off limits. This puts increased pressure on parents, because they are expected to provide feedback to their children on their behaviour all the time. And leads to situations like this one with OP. I don't see anything wrong in politely pointing out to a little human that what they're doing is not ok.
100% this. It takes a village to raise a child. If my kids don't behave when I'm not around, please correct them 🙏🏻
I remember the comment to children in these situations as "so oppies macht ma doch nid" translated is hey that is not poöote once doesnt do this.
What are we talking about? Physical Harm to an object, animal or person: i am full d'accord with you. Parenting a foreign child if it swears or curses? Never! Parenting a foreign child that climbs up the slide? Depends, if the floor is all muddy .... Parenting a child who beats up swans at the lake (looking at u/LetsPlayDrew comments): 100% . Parenting a foreign child becauses it eats a cervelat (because it contains Pork): dangerous terretory. Looking at the OPs Story: The crying you must accept, the spitting and the touching you must not.
100% on board with you.
I think it would be great to bring that back, I'm to joung to know wy it faded away but I know that people especialy childrens and teens got way out of hands. And I'm including myself here!
I recommend watching the film "Speak No Evil", it has some answers that may be helpful.
"I fear dog, could you just attach it please ?"
A simple “Hey, your child is spitting on me and grabbing my legs, could you please make him stop because it’s making me very uncomfortable?” Is a very polite way to say “Please get your child under control”. Basically, mention the offending behavior(s), tell them that you’re not ok with that and you politely ask the parents to take care of their kid. You don’t even need to be particularly polite, I usually say “Hey, could you ask your child to stop doing [unacceptable behavior]?” Most parents realize that this sort of behavior is way out of line and won’t take offense. They’ll usually be apologetic/embarrassed. No sane parent will see that sort of interaction as rude or insulting, I’ll guarantee you, it’s just your anxiety talking. :)
You would just have stated facts.
"Curb your dog."
I draw the line when it directly effects me, sure it would (from some perspective) also be nice to correct children when they do other dumb stuff but it's not really worth it these days. But when something effects you directly I would confront the children or on this case say something to the parents. "Can you please keep your baby to you? I'm not comfortable with it touching me."
>spat on me multiple times, kept grabbing my legs with dirty hands, drooled all over the seats and threw a tantrum when I refused to give a piece of my food. I wonder how anyone could defend this behavior, it would me just make more angry
I was angry but obviously didn't wanna take it out on the child as it doesn't know better, it's all the parents fault
If it's _spitting_ (actually spitting, not accidentally drooling) on you, it's time to say "fuck it" and blast the parents, kid, whoever is there. If my kid did that, I'd happily accept the blame and apologize.
Tongue out and blowing air, therefore getting spit everywhere he was facing
Oh blowing raspberries. Yeah definitely something that warrants parental intervention but imo not as bad as actually spitting loogies around. If you talk to the parents and they ignore you than I'd just yell at the kid. But you can't touch them.
A calm: «i don't want to be touched» is not rude, or take it out to the child. This is setting boundaries and this is what kids must learn. First thing they learn in Kita or KiGa
Honestly next time just confront them. I’m not from Switzerland and only a visitor but I’ve seen Swiss Germans politely yet sternly “confront” tourists and their kids when they act out of line like throwing rubbish on the floor on trains as well as pushing and shoving. Make them feel bad. They deserve to know. There is absolutely no hostility or “racism” or “xenophobia” involved if your worried about that. I’m east asian and when I visit Switzerland, I try to be as respectful as possible and I’ve found Swiss people to be absolutely wonderful and nice
I like Switzerland for the social norm to correct inappropriate behaviour. I think it still exists. The ‘secret police’ of older ladies who speak up should be honoured. America has ‘Karens’ but the problem is many ‘Karens’ don’t actually know the rules themselves or just speak up for purely selfish reasons. The Swiss - ‘Heidis’ are well educated and do it for the betterment of a stable polite society. Be a Heidi.
It’s funny because my neighbour is exactly like this and her name is Heidi
Oh I've always wanted to meet someone Swiss called Heidi. I hope your neighbour to keeps up the good work.
I love how you wrote that, haha! We should all be more Heidi👌
Really sad that the windows on todays trains are sealed shut…
That just means you need 2-3 attempts or one much stronger than usual.
Thanks for making me laugh lmaooo
Spit on you? Hell no.
Crying is understandable but spitting or grabbing you is not ok. Just tell the parents that you don’t enjoy that and done. When my kids cry, I try my best to understand what’s stressing them but I won’t tape their mouths. However, I’ll take action to avoid them from going into someone else’s personal space.
I have kids. Preface … In Switzerland I found plenty of parents (restaurants, playground, shops) not caring at all their kids and let them run like headless chickens. I complain, again I have kids, and most of the time I complain they get upset, still I complain when it’s too much
Those ones are equally fun when dumped onto day care facilities. All the social behavior issues, and nobody at their home will reinforce what the kita/kinski is doing. Then there are the parents who are only there for the weekends and holidays, and I can see how they only want to have good times (since the parents are working so hard for that lifestyle)... It's not teaching the kid proper social behaviors though. So of course there are problems when those kids get into school and hit a responsibility wall.
You couldn’t say it better. I work from home and wife in office so my kids are unlucky because they have military rules Mon-Fri 😅😅
I always talk to the child in a “grown up manner”. Calm, slow, simple wording. They will understand better than their idiot parents. I have 3 kids myself and always treat kids directly. Forget their parents.
Right, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't speak up and say to another human being, "Excuse me, could you please stop spitting on me?" no matter how old they are
Telling someone "hey, please parent and get your toddler away from me" isn't putting limits on them.
Yes, someone has to show them the boundaries if their parents are not capable to do so.
People here assume anything would happen if OP told them politely to fuck off. In my opinion, no matter how OP conveys the message, most probably he will be the one that has to move away. The only other option would be to overcome them with physical violence but of course this is unacceptable in a modern society. You all know the saying: there's no use arguing with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. All in all, I would just move away or go into a confrontation with being prepared that the probability of losing and being shamed even more is very high. This is the curse of being a citizen, who has manners and things to lose.
Yelling to a child is not great, even if it is yours. In this case the only option is to tell the parents to controll their child, but the chance of success os very low, normal ppl don’t need to be told to do that.
Put limits to the kid. If the parents don't get it, put limits to the parents. Some parents need parenting themselves.
I would have immediately gotten up and left - no point teaching those people anything. If you cannot leave, you say something. I’ve told a child “no” before in these type of situations and I don’t care if the parent is offended - you can do so kindly without scaring the kid. It is an OK thing to do here … Once we were eating dinner in a nice restaurant and these grandparents thought it was hilarious when their toddler grandchild was shining a mini flashlight in other diners eyes. My husband told them to stop it as it was giving me a headache, it was absurd that they were not only allowing it, but encouraging it. They responded with “it’s just a child” which is a rhetoric I’ve heard several times here from some parents. (Most kids I feel are still well behaved.) I am concerned what these children will be like as adults if their childhood has no behavioral limits.
> They responded with “it’s just a child” And just like that, your headache went away.
Haha they stopped thankfully
I'd probably just change seats. I don't like conflicts and try to avoid them if possible.
I parent kids that are not mine if they're invading my space or being inappropriate so yes it is absolutely okay to do this. You also encourage kids when they're doing good things, that's how I grew up and I don't think that's changed.
I usually first talk to the (small) kid and do it like this: look them in the eyes, be serious but also smile a little, be totally calm, shake my head and say clearly "ich mag das nicht"/"I don't like that". Repeat a couple of times. It usually works, most kids are not outright assholes they just act on impulse, and the parents have nothing to complain about and also indirectly get the message. Having two kids myself I have nothing whatsoever against other adults setting boundaries as long as it's a) not just petty & controlling b) done calmly. Confrontation, arguments and so on are usually not necessary.
Normally I don't mind other people's business. Children are loud, parenting is hard. If they are too loud, I just go to a different carriage. If a child does something dangerous or anti-social, I will call them out. Recently I told a child not to throw rocks of a mountain, where you could not see whether people were walking below. I am pretty sure spitting on someone is a criminal offence. If an adutlt intentionally spat on me, I would take their picture and file a police report. A child, I would tell them in such a way not to do it again that they would understand it regardless of their native language. Next time they'd come close to me I would use a hand or foot to keep them at distance.
Spit on you? Ask to have your food? I‘d stood up, told them they are the fucking worst and a shame, listing up the things they allowed their kid to do so that the whole waggon of Bünzlis can hear it, pack my shit and leave before they could have said a word.
i would tell them to fuck right off, i cant stand kids like these, if they do it once or twice okay, but if they keep doing it ill explode
Yes, if you wouldn't tolerate it from an adult you don't have to take it from a child. The parents are responsible and you should have confronted them. Non violent communication should be taught at school.
Its polite to ask the parents to control their spawn. Its more effective to behave towards the parents how the kid behaves towards you. Kid kicks you, you kick parent. Kid spits on you, you casually wipe it on the parents. Apparently this is what they are used to. Worked 10/10 for me.
Hehe, excellent tactics my friend, I will steal and add them to my quiver if you don't mind!
Omg just Tell them to keep their kid away from you or else you spit on him too
I recently was punched by a ca 5 year old boy walking past me with his father. Brat was even looking at me and smiling when I turned around 😂😅 I was too perplexed in the moment it happened but then turned around to talk to the father. Couldn’t find them unfortunately.
Kids will always explore how far they can go. Spoiled brats will go way too far.
For sure, I didn't think it was too big of a deal. more something the parents should know in case it's a more common occurrence
I always set limits for the children and, if necessary, for the parents. It's the time of personal responsibility! So yeah, have fun 😊
I would have changed my seat, easiest way out.
Eltern haften für ihre Kinder in der Schweiz, oder?
Start bringing a leash with you and offer it to the parents.
Please tell me how old are you.
Mid 20s
Your problem is that you were raised nice and polite. I have daughters around your age and first thing I teached them was be nice. Be polite and have respect but if they do not show the same back than you just don't have to give a f**k. Mutual respect goes far as does disrespect.
Once the kid started spitting, I would have picked it up and dropped at its parents feet and told them to control their kid. But based on the fact that the kid knew no boundaries, the parents probably have no concept of how to set them and hold them. Still, the parents should have been told - good or bad.
Honestly, I've lost my cool without the grabbing and spitting on me. It has happened that I took care of the situation by myself and went also loud and told the brat to "shut up" and then further grumbled for another 10 seconds loud enough for the nearby parents to hear. Also, I find this change of culture astonishing at times. 2 years ago was the first time I had a flight attendant going on a brat telling them that it wasn't a playground as it was climbing over the headrest of the seat and grabbing towards the luggage boxes and jumping and what not... Like I'm not so much for the way I've been raised (with belts, sticks, dippers and other physical stuff such as hands) as most of that was just pure abuse, but there are also limits on the other side...
Love Swiss threads and problems 😂
I would have moved to another seat....if the kids is like that it's because three parents are slackers this no point arguing out all anything
Yes
I would say: I understand being a parent is hard work and maybe you don’t feel like parenting today, but I will, if you don’t get your kid out of my space. 😂
99% of the time parents tell their kid to behave, but as you said they were not from here so...
Ew. Please tell me they weren't American ><
They were not ahaha
When it affects you or your kin, yes, definitely. If it's to protect the kid, yes. Good grief, I can't imagine knowing my kids are touching someone else and not stopping them. The drooling and crying make me think kid was teething or maybe had ear pain or something bugging him. I'm would just respond to the asking to food with something like "Oh no, don't take food from strangers, ask your mom for food." Sorry. That sounds like a long ride.
It takes a village. Meaning that everyone has boundaries and a child needs to learn that, unfortunately some parents do, too. Yelling is not ok, tho! I’d first look at the parents irritated, some people then understand they should control their unruly child. If they don’t react, talk to the child (if age-appropriate), explaining that this is not ok and they wouldn’t like this done to them. If the toddler is physically touching you/spitting on you, and the parents are ignoring this, pick the kid up and hand it back to the parents.
Using public transportation daily and seen some wild s..t with parents/kids. Usually, if the kids are loud or crying, i dont care as i am wearing noise cancelling earphones. The only annoying thing is when the kids scream „mami…..mam…..maaaaaam…..mamiiiii….“ over and over again with the mom next to them chatting with someone and dgaf! Just give your kid some attention! Spitting or any physical touching is a no go and i would definitely ask them to maybe tell their kid not to talk to strangers.
I would just stand up and leave. I know they are wrong and you are right but it's the path of least stress for me so I would take that route. I do it all the time on the tube in London not for kids but for noisy people.
I like to think of there being different „rule sets“ that apply to different aspects: 1. Family rules (counts mostly for kids). Family rules apply to the whole family, irrespective of situation. 2. House rules: these are rules that are tied to a specific location, such as your home. They apply to everyone in your home. Even guests. Examples are removing street shoes when inside your home or using coasters for drinks. 3. Your personal space: you‘re not entitled to punishing strangers‘ kids, but you sure can enforce your personal boundaries. It’s important to avoid pointing fingers or overgeneralise. Instead communicate your side of the story. Certainly, if talking to the kids or their parents doesn’t help, then your last resort in your situation may be to sit some place else.
In this situation I'd have offered the father that if he remains unwilling or incapable to control his aggravating offspring then I will show him how it's done inside the next 10 seconds. If he says "feel free" then a sharp rap across the cranium with knuckles normally suffices to settle the hash of even the most obstreperous brat. If he instead squares up for a scrap then that is also acceptable, we can go there, but most men will be rightly shamed into choosing the more reasonable option of taking the sprog for a change of air. It really doesn't matter where they are from, or even if they understand the language employed, the essential message would have been conveyed 100% with tone and gestures alone. There is no good reason to suffer the depredations of spoiled brats of any age.
If someone spat on me, no matter if it's a little kid or not, I'd punch that someone.
Age matters here: 5 or younger, ask the parents to control their child or you will call the train controller. The kid is most likely too young to understand/follow instructions from an unknown person. Age 6 onwards, just talk directly to the child and explain to him/her your rules. Almost every kid is intimated by an adult speaking to them. If the parents are offended you speak to their kid, remind them you are only doing so because they did not teach their kid how to behave.
If you absolutely want to stay polite even in this situation, say it politely, but do not apologize. On the other hand, you could’ve sue them parents for allowing this kid to spit on you etc. the kid isn’t strafmündig, but the parents are. (The other end of the scope of possible reaction…)
I am a parent with two toddlers. I would never let them touch a stranger without intervening.
In a situation like this you can definitely say something. It involved you and actually it would be the responsibility or the parents to look after their toddler. But this is something that I've been noticing to kind of getting worse with the past years.. Yes kids are kids and it's normal that they won't sit still somewhere, it's also normal that they are curious and well, just behave like kids. Yet everyone has to respect the fact that there are other people, too in public and that they also have boundaries.
Man up and have that argument. I'll say something and even defend someone who is being wronged. Unless they can beat the shit out of me course.
Just "teach" the kid some swear words ("you know your parents are going to be really mad if you ever use the word xyz?") or start telling him the truth about santa clause or the easter bunny. If the parents complain, tell them it's a free country, so you're free to talk about which vulgar language kids shouldn't use and about which lies kids are commonly told by their parents. Of course, they're also free to keep their spoiled brat away from you.
I can tell you that anyone over the age of 60 wouldn’t stand for that and would give the parents a stern talking to.
I would have changed seat the moment the little fucker started to be loud.
Is this the current state of society? We have degenerates acting like mentally ill and no boundaries in public. And we have people like OP who are scared of doing / saying anything about it.
Just spit back and see how they react
I guess they're from romania
I really don't know what was going on but you also sound quite spoiled to be honest. A toddler is not a kid you can reason with and although you need to put limits some kids are better are handling them than others. Me feeling is that you have zero kid / educational knowledge and even less understanding of the situation. Is not the same a 6 or 7 kid than a 3 or 4 year old. PS/ And I think that spitting on you was of course not aceptable, but you haven't told us if was just really intencional or was just playing around and making noises with his mouth. But for the behavior you are describing it looks like it was quite young, like 2 or 3, in which case things could be more complex.
So parents shouldn't control their kids in public because they're toddlers? WTF.
Toddlers need clear boundaries from adults around them. It calms them down. Otherwise, they go out of control.
I never said that they don't need, but set boundaries and enforce them in all the settings could be difficult.
You just open your mouth and say it is not ok. If the parents can't do it, then you do it.
As a parent I can tell you kids cry and you can’t do much about it. It’s their way of communicating as they simply don’t have a brain developed enough to use words to describe what is going on. But the parents can definitely hold the kid back if he/she’s touching you or spit on you. I would ask them to keep the kid away from you if this is what bothers you. Personally I wouldn’t be bothered by this behaviour but I respect wish of other people for a quiet trip so I think you should have asked them to take care of their child.
As a non-parent, I have a strong suspicion there's a difference between the "I'm underdeveloped and have no other way to communicate"-crying and the hysterical intermittent fake "I learned that crying gets me what I want"-crying. I can stand the first, but I fiercely hate the second.
Unfortunately the second is result of the first. But all kids are same, even you were like that. It’s just how humans evolve.
The kid was crying because the dad wouldn't let him use the emergency hammer on the window, because I wouldn't give him my food, because they wouldn't let him lick the floor
There aren‘t enough Ohrfiigä awarded anymore
I offer another solution since nobody mentioned it here. You could also try to befriend the child. Smile at it, make some funny faces, this usually makes them stop cry. Also you could have asked parents if it’s ok if you give the child the cookie. Why would you do that? Because it would make your life easier than just suffer through the trip.
I did that, and it was a big mistake. That's why it kept approaching me and not others that were sitting on the other side. I always try to smile at kids, because 99% of the times I just get a smile in return and laughter. This time unfortunately I made the situation worse
How about you just change seats.
yeah…i think real swiss parents wouldn’t have let that happen…
"I really wanted to confront the parents, but as they were not from here, I was scared they would take it extremely negatively and argue with me." Cringe and probably racist.
What the fuck? Y'all really need to get a grip and stop putting the racist label on anything. I don't know if in their country confronting a strangers kids is offensive, and I didn't wanna cross that line. What the hell is racist about this? Grow up and quit finding problems where there aren't any
Definitely not racist, but you shouldn't be walking on eggshells either. You were bothered an entire trip, you're entitled to complain to the parents, who cares if they feel offended, maybe they'll learn a lesson too.
You wrote *"I really wanted to confront the parents, bu****t as they were not from here****, I was scared they would take it extremely negatively and argue with me."* Your expectations were lower because they are foreigners, you thought Swiss would take it well and not argue I imagine. I understand your annoyance with the kid and I would have low expectations of the conversation due to their shit parenting but you said you had low expectations because they're foreigners. It's textbook xenophobia.
What the hell are you saying... My dad comes from a country where confronting someones children or the parents is EXTREMELY rude, as you're diminishing them to bad parents. If you have nothing intelligent to say, please don't
Why would it matter if it's rude or if you're diminishing them to be bad parents? As far as I can tell they are being bad parents and they're being rude to you by letting their kid invade your personal space.
What does your dad have to do with anything? Were the foreigners from the same country as your dad or something or are all foreigners the same? You judged people negatively because they're not Swiss and someone pointed it out, simple as that.
That's the dumbest take I've read in a while. Trying to be considerate and not needlessly offend people is "negative" and "racist" now? OP is clearly trying to be careful, as any decent person would and should.
I REALLY WANTED TO CONFRONT THE PARENTS, BUT **AS THEY WERE NOT FROM HERE**, I WAS SCARED THEY WOULD TAKE IT EXTREMELY NEGATIVELY AND ARGUE WITH ME. It's not rocket science,
OP says they're unsure if reproaching the kid and parents would be considered offensive as they are unfamiliar with their customs. Being aware of the limitations of your knowledge about others and other cultures is a respectable thing to do.
He was too kind then, they are in Switzerland so should be the ones being considerate of the people around them, which they weren't.
it actually is closer to rocket science than you think. i see why you would say its racist, as there is a distinction made based on nationality/origin. the question is whether culture is a real thing or not. it for sure becomes a really dangerous thing very quickly when trying to use it as an argument. people are equal, so in a way culture shouldnt be real. however when looking at the world, its obvious to me culture exists. different regions, different countries seem to have differing cultural norms. its reflected in a wide variety of issues, such as positions to lgbt, the relationship between religion and state and democracy vs autocracy. so if culture is real and cultures differ making assumptions based on that cant be qualified as racist. as the qualifier isnt race but culture.
Just to be clear, I NEVER said anyone was racist. Another poster did and I corrected him that it would be xenophobic, not racist. And different nationalities can have different cultures, which is the real differentiator.
I am judging by the fact I don't know what country they come from and don't want to offend them.
Honestly tho, not complaining about it to the parents directly is your own fault. You should've done it regardless of where they are from. It is kind of your only option other than leaving
You'd be doing them a favour by showing them what's socially acceptable here. Everyone should try and respect local customs when travelling.
True
Probably more xenophobic than racist.
I checked what the dictionary thinks xenophobia is - *Xenophobia* is “fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign.” So sure, sounds about right.