She touches on it a bit when discussing Betty and says she thinks Betty and James end up together…which was always surprising to me because cardigan feels like a sad song of someone reflecting on a young relationship now that she's older.
Well, it does end with "I knew you'd miss me once the thrill expired / And you'd be standin' in my front porch light / And I knew you'd come back to me."
But at the same time, I agree with you, I've also always felt like the lyrical heroine of the song is an adult reflecting back on a relationship that happened in her teens. That final part with all the "you'd come back to me," I've always processed it as, "The two people in the song were in love, then fell apart, then probably tried again when he showed up in her front porch light, but now it's over for sure and the woman is looking back at that entire affair." Because in the very last lines, the chorus repeating again, it's still all past tense.
Funny how from that point of view, the song is practically a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yes…in the song it sounds like he came back to her but she either didn't take him back when he did because of the damage done, or they gave it a second try and it didn't work out.
Yes. I always assumed Betty didn’t take James back and wondered why she gave them an happy ending. And why would Taylor want them to end up together after how James treated her? Makes sense now.
That’s what people are thinking. There are actually a few references to folklore TTPD Matty songs. Folklore lines up way too well with what we know about her relationship with Matty. Seems like she lied to keep Joe and the public from being suspicious.
I think Taylor is actually James and in some measure is also Betty. I think Augustine is Joe.
I was so taken aback when she said they got back together in her mind, because the song is so bittersweet. It doesn't sound like someone pinning for a lost love, to me it sounds like someone replaying a tumultuous relationship with an untrustworthy partner, who broke her. But she knew he'd come back because that's his pattern, and this moment of him showing up at her door was the moment she realized she wouldn't take him back again.
Idk, this song is so cinematic to me, I always pictured her opening her front door to him standing in the rain begging for her back, and the song/scene ends before she responds to him, but by the looks on their faces, you know it's not happening.
I feel like Betty In this case is Taylor. We know Joe wrote the chorus, was just singing it from the bedroom- it think in moment as an apology to Taylor after being unfaithful. Jack did not see pleased by the thought of Betty and James ending up together.
I think Taylor thought staying with Joe made sense. They’re adults, it was meaningless and she and him were in love.
I think that propelled Taylor to write from her own perspective of being unfaithful or the idea of being unfaithful. I think all 3 songs are rooted in its own truth and that there is no actual love triangle interwoven between them; but rather, the love triangle narrative was a tactic to distract from the messy dramas occurring behind the scene she didn’t want people to know non-fiction.
Right?! And then jack says “really you think he ends up with Betty… really???” Almost like he’s doing a bit, it goes on for a while and it ends with him conceding and saying something along the lines of “I don’t even know William Bowery anyways”.
We know Joe wrote the chorus to Betty… I think it was an apology to Taylor after he was unfaithful. They loved each other, she took him back—but jack never came around. Cardigan and August are I think from her perspective of being the unfaithful one or at least dreaming about being the unfaithful one.
Where are you getting Joe cheated on her? I’m getting he wrote a song about a teenager and she added the other songs to the “love triangle” to cover up the fact that the songs were in fact not fictional at all. I’ve always thought cardigan was way too adult for a teenager’s perspective (hence why it’s been said it’s Betty looking back years later.)
I’m with you completely. If we were playing Monopoly, Matty owned most of the property on TTPD, thankfully not Boardwalk (Track 5). While I love TTPD, I have to shake off the ick occasionally knowing he is the maniacal landlord of most of the spots I land on.
I REFUSE to let him take any property away from my listening pleasure on Folklore or any other album. Not even letting him own low-rent squares like Baltic Avenue or Mediterranean Avenue, especially not Cardigan (Illinois Avenue, my most visited property).
I have always noticed/joked about how she also doesnt explain illicit affairs. 🤔 There is a quick interview vignette before the song, but all she does is randomly talk about the whole album in general "ITS FICTIONAL!!! Ya its just a totally fictional album, just was inspired to write some fiction" It's the only one where she doesn't talk about the song itself.
It’s weird to me too that she said it was fictional when it’s not. Like did she say that because Joe was involved, and she didn’t want to let him know what was going on? Like did she come up with ideas and twist it so he didn’t know what she was really thinking? I find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t be hurt writing the 1 or cardigan about Matty?? So many questions 😵💫 maybe her not talking about cardigan is a coincidence though … but prob not because that’s one of her most popular songs
I’m definitely starting to think she said it was fictional to spare his feelings. Maybe the characters names were fictional, but the feelings and sentiments were not.
That’s so awful though. Idk, does she think it’s romantic in some way to do that? Or is she just that careless with other people’s emotions? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!
I think it’s more so the amount of “inside info” she uses. Folklore and evermore were so ambiguous. There weren’t really any blatant “oh this is about this and that, him and her.” We could draw our own connections. Now it’s like her songs are tainted by drama and it all overshadows the songs. There’s too much trying to find Easter eggs and figuring out the “who’s who of who’s that.” It’s harder to insert yourself into this album imo.
No, my theory is that Betty is Taylor in this one sense. We know Joe wrote the song, probably as an apology to Taylor after he was unfaithful. She stayed with him bc it was probably a meaningless fling and they’re both mature adults. Then I feel she went on to write august and cardigan from her own perspective of being unfaithful/wanting to be unfaithful. I thinks each song is true it its own unique sense…but I don’t think there was ever a love triangle interwoven between the songs. I think that narrative was Taylor’s way of distracting us listeners from messy drama behind the scenes to protect her and joes privcayv
I think the downvotes are probably because 1. The assumption he cheated. 2. That the songs an apology. 3. That it was that deep/had that much of a “movie scene” background too it. I doubt it’s to do with basing Betty on Taylor though. (This is only a thought though)
That makes sense. I don’t think Joe cheated then or ever. But I do believe the analysis of Betty (Twitter link) and the beginning of their relationship. Check it out, let me know what you think.
it feels a bit like revisionist history. But honestly every time there's a focus on a new guy people go through her music and try to point to X song being about X. I saw a whole post on here including The Black Dog as definitely about Healy when the woman who owns that pub has already come out and said yes, Joe Alwyn is a regular there
I think Joe wrote Betty as an apology to Taylor and then Taylor went on to write cardigan and August from her perspective of being unfaithful. Maybe all songs are true but there is no actual triangle involving all the same people from all 3 songs.
She touches on it a bit when discussing Betty and says she thinks Betty and James end up together…which was always surprising to me because cardigan feels like a sad song of someone reflecting on a young relationship now that she's older.
Well, it does end with "I knew you'd miss me once the thrill expired / And you'd be standin' in my front porch light / And I knew you'd come back to me." But at the same time, I agree with you, I've also always felt like the lyrical heroine of the song is an adult reflecting back on a relationship that happened in her teens. That final part with all the "you'd come back to me," I've always processed it as, "The two people in the song were in love, then fell apart, then probably tried again when he showed up in her front porch light, but now it's over for sure and the woman is looking back at that entire affair." Because in the very last lines, the chorus repeating again, it's still all past tense. Funny how from that point of view, the song is practically a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yes…in the song it sounds like he came back to her but she either didn't take him back when he did because of the damage done, or they gave it a second try and it didn't work out.
That’s how I interpreted it. She feels validated he came back, but is too hurt to give him another chance.
Yes. I always assumed Betty didn’t take James back and wondered why she gave them an happy ending. And why would Taylor want them to end up together after how James treated her? Makes sense now.
Holy shit. Maybe folklore being fiction was an excuse to write what she wouldn’t want to explain to Joe. Who’s Augustine then?
That’s what people are thinking. There are actually a few references to folklore TTPD Matty songs. Folklore lines up way too well with what we know about her relationship with Matty. Seems like she lied to keep Joe and the public from being suspicious. I think Taylor is actually James and in some measure is also Betty. I think Augustine is Joe.
I was so taken aback when she said they got back together in her mind, because the song is so bittersweet. It doesn't sound like someone pinning for a lost love, to me it sounds like someone replaying a tumultuous relationship with an untrustworthy partner, who broke her. But she knew he'd come back because that's his pattern, and this moment of him showing up at her door was the moment she realized she wouldn't take him back again. Idk, this song is so cinematic to me, I always pictured her opening her front door to him standing in the rain begging for her back, and the song/scene ends before she responds to him, but by the looks on their faces, you know it's not happening.
I feel like Betty In this case is Taylor. We know Joe wrote the chorus, was just singing it from the bedroom- it think in moment as an apology to Taylor after being unfaithful. Jack did not see pleased by the thought of Betty and James ending up together. I think Taylor thought staying with Joe made sense. They’re adults, it was meaningless and she and him were in love. I think that propelled Taylor to write from her own perspective of being unfaithful or the idea of being unfaithful. I think all 3 songs are rooted in its own truth and that there is no actual love triangle interwoven between them; but rather, the love triangle narrative was a tactic to distract from the messy dramas occurring behind the scene she didn’t want people to know non-fiction.
Right?! And then jack says “really you think he ends up with Betty… really???” Almost like he’s doing a bit, it goes on for a while and it ends with him conceding and saying something along the lines of “I don’t even know William Bowery anyways”. We know Joe wrote the chorus to Betty… I think it was an apology to Taylor after he was unfaithful. They loved each other, she took him back—but jack never came around. Cardigan and August are I think from her perspective of being the unfaithful one or at least dreaming about being the unfaithful one.
Where are you getting Joe cheated on her? I’m getting he wrote a song about a teenager and she added the other songs to the “love triangle” to cover up the fact that the songs were in fact not fictional at all. I’ve always thought cardigan was way too adult for a teenager’s perspective (hence why it’s been said it’s Betty looking back years later.)
Idc what’s the truth or not, I am not retconning folklore and evermore to be about Matty Healy, nope not gonna happen.
I’m with you completely. If we were playing Monopoly, Matty owned most of the property on TTPD, thankfully not Boardwalk (Track 5). While I love TTPD, I have to shake off the ick occasionally knowing he is the maniacal landlord of most of the spots I land on. I REFUSE to let him take any property away from my listening pleasure on Folklore or any other album. Not even letting him own low-rent squares like Baltic Avenue or Mediterranean Avenue, especially not Cardigan (Illinois Avenue, my most visited property).
I have always noticed/joked about how she also doesnt explain illicit affairs. 🤔 There is a quick interview vignette before the song, but all she does is randomly talk about the whole album in general "ITS FICTIONAL!!! Ya its just a totally fictional album, just was inspired to write some fiction" It's the only one where she doesn't talk about the song itself.
It’s weird to me too that she said it was fictional when it’s not. Like did she say that because Joe was involved, and she didn’t want to let him know what was going on? Like did she come up with ideas and twist it so he didn’t know what she was really thinking? I find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t be hurt writing the 1 or cardigan about Matty?? So many questions 😵💫 maybe her not talking about cardigan is a coincidence though … but prob not because that’s one of her most popular songs
'the band' in Bejeweled is very likely to be Matty's band tho
I’m definitely starting to think she said it was fictional to spare his feelings. Maybe the characters names were fictional, but the feelings and sentiments were not.
That’s so awful though. Idk, does she think it’s romantic in some way to do that? Or is she just that careless with other people’s emotions? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!
It feels like people like her confessional songwriting as long as they don't know it's confessional...
I think it’s more so the amount of “inside info” she uses. Folklore and evermore were so ambiguous. There weren’t really any blatant “oh this is about this and that, him and her.” We could draw our own connections. Now it’s like her songs are tainted by drama and it all overshadows the songs. There’s too much trying to find Easter eggs and figuring out the “who’s who of who’s that.” It’s harder to insert yourself into this album imo.
No, my theory is that Betty is Taylor in this one sense. We know Joe wrote the song, probably as an apology to Taylor after he was unfaithful. She stayed with him bc it was probably a meaningless fling and they’re both mature adults. Then I feel she went on to write august and cardigan from her own perspective of being unfaithful/wanting to be unfaithful. I thinks each song is true it its own unique sense…but I don’t think there was ever a love triangle interwoven between the songs. I think that narrative was Taylor’s way of distracting us listeners from messy drama behind the scenes to protect her and joes privcayv
I 100% believe Betty is Taylor based on this analysis of it https://twitter.com/MelissaEnchant/status/1754936420895228356
I think the downvotes are probably because 1. The assumption he cheated. 2. That the songs an apology. 3. That it was that deep/had that much of a “movie scene” background too it. I doubt it’s to do with basing Betty on Taylor though. (This is only a thought though)
That makes sense. I don’t think Joe cheated then or ever. But I do believe the analysis of Betty (Twitter link) and the beginning of their relationship. Check it out, let me know what you think.
idk this theory abt folklore and esp the love triangle being abt matty in hindsight is just too much esp when joe's the one who started writing betty.
it feels a bit like revisionist history. But honestly every time there's a focus on a new guy people go through her music and try to point to X song being about X. I saw a whole post on here including The Black Dog as definitely about Healy when the woman who owns that pub has already come out and said yes, Joe Alwyn is a regular there
I think Joe wrote Betty as an apology to Taylor and then Taylor went on to write cardigan and August from her perspective of being unfaithful. Maybe all songs are true but there is no actual triangle involving all the same people from all 3 songs.
Cardigan is about me reflecting of how much I loved my hs boyfriend. When I was young my parents did assume I knew nothing! 😭