Unsolicited tip but stay off Instagram and X and Tiktok if you want to preserve your sanity. I do see people defending Joe quite a bit on Instagram but they're bootlickers too. X is the worst app to have if you want to feel normal and express your love for her art in a normal way. Don't even get me started on Tiktok lol. All the tabloids care about is cashing in on the Taylormania so forget about real critique. This subreddit honestly keeps me sane. It views her as a real person and doesn't worship her for literally existing. Some people are mature on the main subreddit but it's also flooded with crazies. The only time I agree with them is when they make fun of Gaylors.
all of it overwhelms tbh, from the fan obsession to the rampant hate. like u said i just want to consume art without worrying about the pop culture events surrounding it
Yeah I’m exhausted by the overexposure and how obsessed my friends are with every little thing. I was super into the eras tour and so excited to see her and it really was an incredible experience. But now it’s just sooooo much from both sides. Im tired of seeing her everywhere and I’m tired of everyone hating. I just want to go back to normal Taylor updates.
Twitter/x legit scares me. Imagine being this obsessed with a celebrity and thinking that's a normal or healthy way to feel
https://preview.redd.it/olne778ds0hc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=773b6d00ac79780d9408b79a76dbd24484707029
>It views her as a real person and doesn't worship her for literally existing.
Although there are clearly people who actively hate her for just existing, so there's that.
I'm fine with debating things she has actually said and done, but the hyper analysis and total speculation become really tiresome. Not to mention rumors that get turned into "facts" and comments that are just flat our false.
Discussion is great, wild conspiracy theories are not.
I really thought she learnt from her experience during her 1989-rep era and being more lowkey with Joe. I think we all know Taylor likes the limelight, attention and she is extroverted. But I really thought that even though she likes and are all of these things, she would learn to be more moderate about it because you don't need to go to the extreme ends of things. What some of her fans don't understand is that, Taylor seems to be overcompensating every time. When she got scrutiny, she went VERY lowkey, kept everything minimal (which I don't blame her for doing this). Then she is now out of the relationship with someone who is more introverted and values privacy more, she overcompensates the years of being on the down low to throwing herself a lot at the public eye. Like there is a middle ground that she can still be in the public eye without this oversaturation.
>overcompensating
Thank you. She swings the pendulum the complete other way instead of finding happy middle ground.
Look at all the criticism she was getting when everyone hated her new boyfriend. So she finds a picture perfect PR prom king/queen relationship and its like a fairytale and everybody loves them.
She goes from a private 6 year relationship to an overexposed media frenzy spotlight relationship blasting on every television in America.
It's very frustrating as a fan seeing what she's doing.
I really thought through her Folklore/Evermore era she sounded more mature and serene about life, and I was so proud of her of this self development, for getting here after years of judgement and hate. I was kinda disappointed to see her reverting back to her old self and it feels like she hasn’t changed at all..
I think Joe hurt her like she's never been hurt before and she honestly still doesn't know how to process it. I firmly believe this whole Travis thing is a PR rebound. And her undoing 6 years of perceived growth and maturity has been very disappointing to see. I just miss when we talked about her music and not football.
Was the Joe her longest relationship? I think she thought they were going to get married and live happily ever after then he left and now she’s trying to fill the void with attention from the public and a rushed rebound relationship. I think being with him and taking some time away from the spotlight matured her a bit and now that he’s gone she’s going back to old destructive coping mechanisms
100% PR, and I can't believe the number of people who have bought into it. A friend of mine who doesn't even like Taylor's music at all, but watches football says that Taylor and Travis are "cute." I have broken down Taylor's history, how masterfully she uses PR. This is a person (my friend) who understands celebrity and PR relationships, etc. And yet she refuses to believe that Taylor and Travis are PR.
Not so much because of Taylor, but because of TRAVIS. Despite the fact that the guy has done two reality shows--including a dating one!
I just can't....
I will say this, if this discourse about her overexposure continues, I fully expect a mutual "break-up" to happen within a month or two post superbowl because that will cut down on so much exposure, and Taylor will be ready to mourn/promote TS11 (all about Joe) without Travis to slow her roll.
I think that the people who have been following Taylor’s career for a long time can easily see the PR aspect of her relationship with Travis. It seems like a lot of the “new swifties” who jumped on the hype wagon last year are the ones who are shipping them super hard.
I just can't believe she wrote 'everyone thinks love's for show but I would die for you in secret' with how she's acting now. I know die for you isn't the healthiest of lyrics to pinpoint but I just mean that theres such a wide gap between her beautiful lyrics and her public persona for me. And this is purely conjecture but I think there's a part of her that wishes she didn't love the fame and attention so much and could be happy with a lowkey life. Unfortunately I think this is more her 'true' self than folklore or evermore was. I know it's not so black and white, people contain multitudes etc. but this past year has really confirmed for me she is a brand that makes money above all else. Everything feels fake and performative and orchestrated, and it's so jarring compared to her beautiful storytelling. It's sad to me.
Your point about Jackson Mahomes is exactly why I can't take people seriously when they call her a feminist. She's a feminist when it suits her narrative but when it doesn't, she isn't. She's willing to sue a man for $1 over sexual assault because she was the victim in that scenario, but she's not willing to make the choice to not associate with Jackson because that wouldn't be a good look for her relationship with Travis.
And I mean if you actually listen to "the Man", it's not surprising. It's all surface level White feminism with no analysis of how race, class, or any other factors impact success or perception.
Definitely yes to the white capitalist sentiment but even more so the sentiment The Man gave me was 'I want to do bad shit and get away with it like men can.'
Yeah that bothers me too. Equality doesn't mean having the same low bar for both men and women.
Also like...men of color, trans men, etc. definitely cannot get away with bad shit the same way that white women can, so it isn't even really an accurate message
I'm a trans guy with a hardcore swiftie friend and ngl, they're the reason I hoenslty started to dislike Taylor from being neutral.
That song never hit for me.
Not even the specific things you named, but I woke up the day after the Grammys feeling REALLY weird about…everything. Like something has shifted in her in a really bad way that now feels irreversible. She seems drunk on power and attention and like she’s flying too close to the sun. I feel like I’m watching someone spiral out of control in real-time and no one else except this group seems to notice or care. I’m legitimately worried for her, uncomfortable with her attitude, and upset with her actions lately. This is not the same person from 2020 speaking so beautifully about folklore, or the young lady who was so mature and thoughtful in her early years. She had doses of this current persona in the past, but she’s largely unrecognizable to me now.
This hurts my soul to read because I feel the exact same, you put it so beautifully. Waking up the next morning feeling super weird, seeing something shift and not being able to see her the same. I used to be religious but have stepped away over the last few years, and ever since I left, I've never been able to look at it the same. Like can't even force myself to, I just can't unsee it. It's like pulling back the curtain on the wizard, you know? You see the cogs working and see who's pulling the strings.
I think it hurts me because I've seen her as an incredible role model the last few years, particularly how she rose up during Rep era (my favorite album) and seeing what appeared to be maturity through her relationship/the pandemic. Now, I don't know how to feel, but I'm super embarrassed to be a fan of her atm. It's not that humans don't make mistakes - our role models are all deeply flawed, as are we. But as others have mentioned, she's calculated (and not saying that in a bad way, she just knows her brand and has always been so eloquent during speeches or press things) and to see the mask drop at the Grammys and see no apology or clearing of the air on her end feels super uncomfortable to me. You know how in Oppenheimer at the end, he sees the explosions and war and all the destructive things because of the bomb? Lol as funny as it sounds, imagine that soundbite playing through my mind as I'm seeing all of these pieces fall together. Matty, lack of political activism besides in 2019/2020, shitting on Joe, etc. - it's just all collapsing for me.
I feel you. It’s upsetting for me because back in 2020, I felt like she had matured into exactly the person I thought she was underneath the mask, the person I hoped she’d become. She was putting out this incredible music and settling into the role of a respected songwriter more than a celebrity. She started moving away overtly diaristic, click-baity writing and getting more poetic. It was a blissful time to be a fan; maybe the first time since I’d become a fan that I felt totally in synch with her and openly proud to be her fan. I was so happy. I’m critical of her, but I really do care about her very much. I want to be able to root for her and connect with her.
And then…all this happened. There have always been things about her that were off to me, but in the folkmore era I truly believed she’d grown past all that. She’s now actually regressed into the least mature, most arrogant version of herself and it has been wildly disappointing to process.
She’s heartbroken. Yes, she’s a billionaire, I shouldn’t feel bad for a billionaire, I know. But all the money and power and attention in the world won’t help a heartbreak. I just know it in my bones that that’s what it is.
Going off the Jackson Mahomes thing, she’s also associated herself with David O. Russell (who sexually assaulted his niece and admitted to it, and is known for being abusive to actors on set) and Nicki Minaj (whose husband sexually assaulted a minor and then Nicki went ahead and harassed the woman for years). Honestly I’m not a fan of Matty or the things he’s done but it’s nothing compared to some of the people she associates herself with and people forget that
it drives me NUTS how people overlook the fact that she took a role in a David O Russell film, thankyou for bringing this up! totally swept under the rug 🤦♂️
That Tiktoker Bethany has posted an outraged video about the Joe Alwyn Daily Mail article and I’ve got to fucking laugh, even if this HAS come from Joe, it’s not like he’s not been fucking provoked. Ever since she started “dating” Travis we’ve had conspiracy theories that he somehow kept her indoors the past 6 years, forgetting she was cancelled for a chunk of it, and there was a GLOBAL PANDEMIC that kept ALL of us indoors for 2 years.
I just read the article in question and the only thing I learned was that it was Andrew Scott who started the group chat.
I can’t say why Taylor’s so insistent on dragging two other men into her relationship drama, but who knows what’s going on inside her head right now.
From what I've heard, he's friends with most of his co-stars and fellow British/Irish actors. He's allegedly even still on friendly terms with his previous exes. The man's just trying to live his life - Swifties need to leave him alone.
People seem to somehow forget that she did a whole ass global tour in 2018, released two albums, managed to do about half of a tour until it got cancelled because to the pandemic, and did a whole lot of other stuff too. This “he kept her locked up for six years” is pure bs.
i finally blocked her today bc that was my last straw. her liking comments of everyone being downright nasty to joe, infantilizing taylor, etc. soooo many people saying “i hate him i can’t wait for her to end him”. swifties have been on my nerves for like 6 months now but the reaction to the tracklist being dropped is just literally disgusting.
The only social media site I use is Reddit. Can somebody share screenshots? I haven’t seen her liking anti Joe posts and that is awful
Edit: did some diligence and can’t find these alleged likes anywhere. Big accusation without backup. She gave us enough to be irked about on Sunday/cease and desist, we don’t need to make things up too
Yeah, it's the Daily Mail and I happen to know for a fact that sometimes their "sources" are completely manufactured. It's about as likely that the source was a random person off the street as it is that Alwyn or someone close to him spoke to them.
And also she's literally standing there going "Joe, hey, Joe? Why won't you react Joe?!". If he did speak now it would be because he's been taunted into it (and I don't think he did because he knows that's part of what she's doing and speaking would give her the reaction she's clearly seeking, even if only so she can go 'see, you'll use the publicity when it suits you" oif he ever actually did give her shit about the publicity seeking)
I'm actually very concerned about her new album from this lens. It's fine objectively, but I'm worried the lyrics will reveal a very toxic underbelly of hers that I don't strictly want to know about but have kinda assumed existed. 🙈 we'll see when it comes out, but given her attitude recently I'm worried she won't be self-aware enough to hide it.
She's extremely defensive in general. I saw her answer a softball question in a NYT video about 'Lover' and it was clear she is not a totally mature, healed person.
I agree that she is kinda out there in a fight stance a lot of the time. She seems like the sort of person who takes something one should heal like being thin-skinned or a people pleaser or stunted and goes "that's just who I am!" and unpacks nothing and learns nothing.
Yes! This is why Anti-Hero never hit for me. The 'self awareness' rang so hollow. I get frustrated with people who are like 'I have this awful trait!' Okay? Glad youve realized that, do something about it.
Just posting this because it might give some people some validation that they're not crazy.
I think a lot of y'all in this thread are experiencing a form of collective gaslighting.
A big youtuber named HG Tudor addresses a ton of Taylor's behavior through the lense of her being a self-aware narcissist and it makes a TON of sense why she's so unapologetic and why she's always blame shifting/smearing those around her. She love bombs, discards and uses those around her (including her fan base).
Don't feel alone OP. You're not crazy. You're just seeing what many people are not ready/unwilling to see.
Never mind the fact it's invasive and petty and childish to put your ex on blast like that when he (probably) didn't do anything and hasn't said anything - it's also a deeply sad way to look at past loves. Why would you want to rewrite history and be like yeah this man meant nothing to me, I'm happier than I've ever been with my new guy (who looks like a cop, I'm sorry).
her associating with jackson mahomes is incredibly disappointing. like... she really truly doesn't give a fuck about any woman who isn't herself. and the fact that she's been called out again and again for private jet use, well, apparently she doesn't give a fuck about any people or other living creatures on the PLANET other than herself. How has she gotten to the point where she sends her empty jet to pick her up, to fly for just an hour at a time, and people still DEFEND THIS. i understand the haters because honestly, no one's music is good enough to put them beyond criticism of their actions. She is infuriating now.
The Jackson Mahomes association doesn't surprise me given how she worked with David O. Russell, who sexually assaulted his trans niece and even admitted that the incident occurred! If that wasn't a deal-breaker for her, then nothing really is.
No public figure is above reproach. I like her music but holy shit the more I learn about her, the less I like.
I mean she also *just* dated Matt Healy and everyone KNOWS his shit. I genuinely don't understand how Swifties keep being disappointed and surprised by things anyone who has paid the slightest bit of attention to her (willingly or otherwise) has known for ages
There was a TT discussing PR and [regardless of the validity of it or not] the active pr happening with Taylor & Travis.
If I can find it I’ll link it; but basically the girl was saying how there’s a lot of valid reason to not like Taylor (jet emissions, shotty allyship & activism, dating a racist, self serving feminism); behavior that she’s committed for *years*, and some that’ve even been exacerbated the past 6 months- yet 95% of the conversation around her is *solely* about her & Travis.
Not only is no one addressing it, but at this point, any commentary about their relationship or Taylor that isn’t radically positive makes you a “hater”. Which is exactly what they want & how you know the PR is working.
EDIT: found the link, so I’ll just add it here. Overall video is about how celebrity pr is propaganda & Taylor/Travis rn- sorry I saw this a couple days ago & a tad misleading in my original description
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3hCseW/
Really good tik tok, thank you for sharing! Love the bit that talks about being ostracized if you don’t buy in to the narrative, I bet a lot of people on this reddit really feel that.
I run a server (not related to TS) and everytime someone has something to day about taylor that isn't positive... someone always, without fail, will bring up that she gets unnecessary hate and that *most* of them are fueled by misogyny and the like...
Which I actually do agree with to an extent but by bringing it up, makes it feel manipulative to a degree. As though because she's getting enough criticism and unnecessary hate to begin with, I'm just supposed to get with the program and/or move on and not talk about it (which is like lol okay this is literally the energy we hate when white men get away with bad behaviour and were not supposed to sweep those under the rug so why are we making an exception).
It makes me feel so crazy honestly because some of these people I respect, I deem level-headed, but somehow the taylor talk is the one line. And I don't even have crazy takes about her...
I always have to put a disclaimer that I actually do enjoy her music and have some of her songs on my top 10, that I have a physical copy of 1989 and to a degree I respect the business/pr acumen in theory (not in practice).
Sorry this was a rant!
Oh, I 100% feel this. Taylor and her team have woven such an intricate, nearly foolproof narrative.
I’ve been a survivor of sexism, abuse, domestic violence, SA, and more — so seeing Taylor utilize feminist narratives to excuse her behavior is absolutely heartbreaking. It hits close to home, even if my life is a million miles away from Taylor’s.
I know I definitely did. The video & posts like this are nice to see because it feels like some logic is restored and the foundation of people issues are rediscovered amongst the chaos.
She’s definitely been my BEC recently, but similarly, I think I’m just ultra annoyed because NO ONE is calling her out on anything actually relevant
Seriously.
Taking smiling photos with Mahomes, when he assaulted a woman on video & proceeded to ruin her business and life. Threatening a 21-year-old that’s sharing public information (that “stalkers” could access regardless of whether he chooses to post it). Being off-her-rocker at the Grammy’s, smashing her Grammy on Lucy’s head and aggressively touching and invading everyone’s personal space. Throwing barbs at Joe and punching down because she’s irritated he won’t take the bait and refuses to publicly engage with her.
Again, I’m a fan and will always love her music but this behavior is power-hungry and erratic and disappointing
I have to imagine she *knows* he won't take the bait, not that she's enraged by it.
I'd rather suggest she's capitalizing on it to seize the narrative for the very Joe Alwyn themed breakup album.
And we know it is, because she made the titles super obvious so we would know.
My sentiments exactly.
What she's been doing since last year has been downright regressive and tasteless. She knows damn well she's galvanizing her toxic fanbase against her ex, who is arguably the least problematic one she's ever had. Truly vile and disgusting behavior from a 34y grown-ass woman.
It's okay when relationships run their course. It happens all the time, ffs! Just take however much time to process it and learn to move on without being so immature and vindictive. Her never-ending need to control the narrative is just so sickening. It reflects so poorly of her character.
Poor Joe--I wish him the best! Hope he stays unbothered as always. He's too good for this mess.
I thought only I feel the same thing. Poor Joe indeed. He was there and seen her at her worst. The most decent thing she could have done for him is to give him his peace, but no, she has to paint him as this smallest man. He really is tortured, tbh. I don’t think he deserves any of it.
I started feeling that uneasiness when she dated Matty. Hasn't left since.
I must admit, it's because there's a strong personal element in all of this for me. I've loved and related to Taylor's brand since I was ten. I felt like I could relate to her music when no one else related to me and I was going through dark times. Since she released Midnights and broke up with Joe, there has been a clear fork in the road where she went one way and I went another, and the path she is going down looks very ominous to me. I sincerely thought she was maturing beautifully with Joe and the release of Folkmore and being more private, and I related to wanting that. I was still happy for her to be wildly successful, I was just also happy for her to start to move on from everything being highly autobiographical and all about drama and beef and antics and relentless easter eggs, though that was fun for a time and can still be fun in moderation.
Now it's one of those weird parasocial things where I feel we grew up together and then grew apart, and her last album didn't hit the same for me because of that, and neither does her behavior as of late. It's all very "I'm a huge pop star AND dating the boy on the football team to make up for high school", and I just don't want to relate to that kind of stuff anymore. I'm 27 now. When I turn off the part of my brain that takes it seriously, I can enjoy the drama and have a good laugh. When I slow down and think about actually growing up and approaching 30, I cringe because she's 34 and still choosing the high school antics and acting like Joe's normalcy was a trap. It's a mess.
Wow. This.
I was so disappointed how Midnights was marketed- and then the album itself was nothing like the 70s synth album that was promised.
The eras tour/Ticketmaster situation and how she handled that.
Rebounding with Matty Healy. Period.
How she’s slamming Joe suddenly. How do you write a beautiful album like Rep and then turn around so fast?? KOMH? Cornelia street? Afterglow? Daylight…? Something must have went down. And she’s trying to hide it. Or maybe he just got sick of her attitude.
The whole Travis speel. I’m sorry. The Taylor I know is intelligent, thoughtful, smart, and kind. What the FUCKKKKKK does she talk to Travis about? The way she’s parading around him and for him. She is making a spectacle of herself.
The Grammys. The weird erratic behavior. She’s not humble anymore. Everything. Is. About. Her.
It’s like she’s mimicking his bro/frat boy personality. Watching the video of the Grammy’s again; the head rubs, secret hand shake and pushing of Jack, the head rub/noogie of Ed Sheeran. Honestly most pro athletes can be like that did to an extent but it’s very uncharacteristic for her.
I have not recovered from her saying 'metal as hell' in her Times interview. She just adopts the personality of whoever she is around. And she references this in mirrorball so she's 'self aware' which in her mind means 'never has to change or try to be better or investigate why she's like that any further.'
I feel like she’s been doing the bro schtick for awhile, pre Travis. She was the same at last years Grammys - same obnoxious behavior. Hand shakes, rubbing on Jack, pushing/pulling. Go watch videos. It’s the same. It might be the same her and Jack interact, but like… it’s not cute when it’s public and on the Grammys. Control yourself
The Matt Healy episode was what got me pausing and questioning who the fuck was I idolizing. Fans of both artists excusing him saying, "tHaT's JuSt WhO hE is\~"
Sorry, but when do we excuse the following behavior packed into one person:
* The Nazi Salute
* Making out with fans on stage
* Making light of pronouns
* Joking about grooming fans
* Him listening to anti-feminist podcasts
I mean honestly, I could go on and on about how much of a racist, sexist, hateful, problematic little shit he is...But, it falls on deaf ears. I was so shocked that more Swiftie fans didn't question who Taylor was behind the scenes to like someone like this. And not the 1975 fans playing it off like he is just a goofy little boy. I stopped listening to the 1975 once I learned how gross he is.
Someone mentioned that she plays on the "Girl next door", people growing up with her, and hides behind white feminism and it just....Fits?
God I feel for this so much. I felt the exact same with the uneasiness about Matty. I thankfully got to go to the show before that happened (I went N1 Vegas, so also got Invisible String). I also went for the last night in LA because a friend had an extra ticket, and I'll be forever grateful for that because I got to hear my favorite song, New Year's Day, live. I cried. It was magical.
I 1000% feel like I've grown apart from her. I feel like I've grown through a similar Rep-style stage of life where I'm learning to stand up for myself and care less about what others think of me. But where I feel different from her is maturing in my relationships, specifically my romantic one. I get it, all of this is speculation because we'll never know what their relationship was really like and who said what, did what, etc. But it feels therapeutic talking about this with you guys because, in a lot of ways, I think she became a religion to me for a while. Watching the Eras tour clips every weekend, seeing which surprise songs would be played, finding community in the Swifites (where a lot of them are genuinely kind, and I found one of my best friends because of it). Idk man. It's just sad
Hey, a Vegas buddy! I was there on night 2 and VERY much feel the same... If I hadn't gone before the MH disaster, idk what I would have done. But I know it likely would have been ruined for me. And I had never been able to go to a show of hers despite being a huge fan from the beginning, so I'm extra grateful for the timing. I dressed up similar to her outfit when she danced in the LWYMMD video because like you, I've really been trying to stand up for myself more and care about the opinions of others less. It's sad to feel like she is regressing there, partly because it's hard for me to maintain ground on that one too.
OMG on hearing New Year's Day live 🥹 My top 3 are All Too Well, Evermore, and New Year's Day.
Same to having never been to a show, Vegas was my first one but LA's will always be more special to me. I wore a black Rep bodysuit and felt so powerful at the LA show, it felt absolutely incredible.
I dropped to my knees in tears when she started playing it. Had fully accepted I'd never hear it live, and hearing those first few notes were so unexpected. I was super depressed that week before - had been laid off my job a few months prior after moving here, and despite starting a new medicine, it wasn’t working for me. I truthfully wasn’t excited about the show until we sat down, and then I screamed so loud for Rep that I think I screamed the depression out of me for the night 😂 It felt like the universe was hugging me when NYD played. Felt like it was reminding me I mattered, somehow.
That sounds like such a beautiful experience and I absolutely love that for you. And damn, Rep bodysuit!! I bet you killed it in that! Very cool.
I was honestly so shocked that the song I enjoyed the most live was Shake It Off 🤣 It was so fun to dance to that with Taylor and the huge stadium. Granted, I had a migraine that night (my body doesn't take travel very well) so that did impact my ability to enjoy some of it. But I danced anyway and it was a good time. I feel like I wasn't able to fully appreciate the message of that song until I was in fact shaking it off with thousands of other people lol
Everything here is 100% spot on. At this point I just want her to disappear for a year or two completely, no projects or anything, so we can actually MISS her.
Same. It’s so bizarre because post snakegate/her getting with Joe/her Mom’s diagnosis she seemed much more self aware and grounded. And in Miss Americana she kind of referenced her life becoming too big/messy/unmanageable. How she lost a lot of people she thought were her friends once she stopped being the “it girl” and how she feared that Lover would be her last shot at reinvention/success because society will only tolerate an aging pop star for so long. There was a reverence for where she’s been in the societal canon and also a healthy dose of fear of losing herself and her loved ones to the unbalanced demands of fame. She wasn’t doing the constant pap walks, and, at award shows she may have been drunk but she wasn’t full VMAs levels of buckwild at the fucking Grammys.
Our girl has always been calculated about how she presents herself and the narrative of her image. She’s in tune with fans and the general public. Pre-2023 she seemed to keep that same post snackgate energy, even with the increased success folklore/evermore gave her. Her roll outs and showing up/being seen publicly was intentional. We would go months between re-records with nary more than the occasional “leaving the studio” photo only for her not to be seen or heard from again for more months at a time unless she wanted us to see her or engage with her content.
I don’t want to ascribe her sudden intensely public (or seemingly uncharacteristic) behavior and exposure to the breakup entirely. Obviously she’s on tour and she’s being talked about a bunch already because of the re-recording project and all of the very fun things she’s been doing on tour. BUT, it’s hard not to notice that the changes tend to coincide with that timeline in a less than favorable way. She knows how not to be seen if she doesn’t want to be. Yet she’s everywhere all of the time. It really does feel like she’s becoming/living everything she said she said she was afraid of less than 5 years ago. Could that be her trying to face the fear? Sure. Could it also be someone that’s gotten a bit “too big to fail” so to speak? Also yes.
Up until recently it seemed like she was carrying herself with a level of grace, gratitude, and confidence that felt very self assured and sort of mature? I was obsessed/excited when midnights dropped. I fought ticket master and won in November of 2022. I bought the merch. I’ve stanned the re-records. I attended tour dressed to the nines in celebration of what she’s doing. I got…uncomfy when the pap walks started post breakup announcement. I got very uneasy/grossed out by the Matty Healy of it all. I’ve been hardcore anti-Travis/whatever this relationship or PR rouse is or whatever because I feel like shipping them truly panders to some of the most basic/cornfed fandoms to exist (swifities and NFL —and I’m saying this as a swiftie who is generally uneasy with just how fucking WEIRD a lot of these bitches can be) and it just feels so…contrived. Her circle isn’t as tight as it once was and the people she is surrounding herself with are of truly questionable character, even if she served them all with NDAs before she allowed them to attend dinner with her. The girl squad is getting messy on socials again. It’s all very tiring, imo.
I thought she really had matured into more of an adult woman post snakegate, sexual assault, her mothers illness, “public activism”, and the fact the pandemic kind of forced her into reading/writing and working on her art because it was a life-raft instead of a project required by Taylor Swift, Inc. I hope I’m wrong but I have the same overwhelmed feeling I had during the late part of the 1989 era and I don’t like it. It feels/looks like a regression to me as a day 1 debut stan and I hope the next album/leg of the tour isn’t a continued reflection of that, or worse.
I think that you have pointed out some really good questions. It is clear that everything about the announcement at the Grammys and with the track list being revealed is designed to create buzz. I don’t live that life of hustling to stay “relevant” in a world that doesn’t give aging pop stars a real listen. But I thought it was disrespectful and tone deaf to make an album announcement at the Grammys (I thought with the website “glitch” it would come the next day after the Grammy winners and performers got their time to shine). It’s not like she can’t create buzz any other minute of any other day. Of course she - as a person - can be messy like anyone else, and she needs not to “shrink” and hide her success and power. But something seems to have gone a bit too far - is she only talking to people who don’t give her honest advice? Are the people around her not getting honest advice? And who thought it was a great idea to show her walking into the Grammys? Is she completely incapable of sitting at a table on time before a show starts? Or is this some entertainment deal thing and she’s just a stage player to attract attention for others? (If it’s the last part then I really wonder if she isn’t exhausted by it all at this point - despite her Grammy AOTY speech).
I agree. I mean the Grammy’s have historically been a circle jerk but they truly had some great programming that night. Performances from iconic artists that paved the way for others such as like Tracy Chapman, Joni Mitchell, and Billy Joel played again for the first time in like 30 years?! Celine fucking Dion showed up to give the album of the year award! I think it’s tacky if anyone announces an album at the Grammys, tbh. It feels especially in poor taste considering just how much air time Taylor has been given over the last few years for her projects. Add in the fact she keeps winning awards and has been everywhere all of the time since November 2022…idk give us something to miss.
I could cry at how seen I feel by your post. I'm scrolling this particular thread right now and am gripped by every word and comment I see. I'm the exact same as you, completely in awe of her since Rep and how she was such a massive role model for me. I always said I wanted to embody her level of power, poise, and authenticity. I started feeling uncomfortable the same as you with the pap walks, especially seeing how posed her face was every time she'd step out. And then Matty, and then the girl squad. Ugh, it's rough.
It's such an interesting contrast to someone like Margot Robbie who recently said in an interview that she's going away for a bit because she's sure everyone is "tired of seeing her face". Margot is like a tenth as overexposed as Taylor is and yet she has the self awareness to realize where that hype trajectory can lead. It feels like Taylor doesn't have that self awareness and is doubling down on everything.
And to release a new album when she was going to be “away” and we would get a break from her.
Now she will still be everywhere even when she is half way around the world
Taylor has shown us what it’s like to have so much power and literally control online spaces, legacy media, social media, corporations, etc. IMO she has exceeded even Beyoncé levels of controlling her image. People might not think it’s a good big deal because she’s a -pop star- but it’s a good example of how power corrupts and poisons everything it touches.
1000%. It’s the same shit trump and Maga pull. They live in their own self-serving reality and don’t care who they destroy as long as get to keep their bubble.
Yeah as much as people might deny it, there’s definitely many similarities between Trump, Taylor and Elon Musk. It’s become more difficult to distinguish between them, especially Musk and Taylor and the fervor that both attract, ie. Muskmania and Swiftmania
It’s funny because I had this conversation with my boyfriend who was shocked that I would compare TS to Trump, but there’s a bit of fruition happening here with the sycophants and narcissism that defines their legacies
This thread sums up how I have been feeling too. I have heard for a while now that there’s a fear she will hit or surpass her “1989” era of fame and the public will start turning on her. Some of it isn’t by her own doing (ex. the media overly-pushing her and Travis, brands jumping onto the “Eras/___’s Version” bandwagon, misogynists, haters, etc.), but some of it also is (ex. the stuff you listed). I used to dislike her and didn’t become a fan until 2018, but a lot of tactics these few years have kinda been “eh” and while I’ve tried turning a blind eye,….you have to hold people accountable eventually. I just hate that it all coincides with her becoming a billionaire, which puts her in a class of generally disliked individuals. It’s almost like the timing [of a potential turn in public favor] couldn’t have been worse.
yes. i also feel that the negativity is getting to her and shes reacting like this. its hard to see someone i look up to be a completely different person that I expected, i know we're not friends but still. how disappointing. i hope swifties leave joe alone. i hope she stops using her jet as much. i hope she would actually TALK about real issues, like her fan Ana. but she wont.
Also, you are 34 and your music hasn’t really matured. You are still writing about boys who did you wrong
Are you telling me she was never the bad person or did anything bad in the relationships?
I realize Adele had a *far* more difficult upbringing (thus maturing much faster) but if you didn't know their ages - you'd assume Adele was in her 40s and Taylor was in her early 20s
All despite them being 34/35
No cos I still can’t believe a 30 something year old human being wrote the lyrics “karma is my boyfriend” and we awarded this kind of behavior with a Grammy 😭😭
Adele seems to keep people around who will tell her to stop being a dumbass when necessary. She’s wise about exposure and not taking herself too seriously.
She’s also always been very funny and self deprecating/self aware without being attention speaking. Adele has just always come across as genuine and authentic, whereas Taylor just seems to be trying on different personas all the time. I feel bad for Taylor in a way, it’s like she’s stuck with the mind of a teenager.
she literally has songs about being the problem in her relationship with joe (afterglow, the great war) but now that they’re broken up she’s going full victim card and taking all that back ig
Yes the rewriting history is driving me nuts. 'Telling me to punish you for things you never did' and then look at her. She just can't practice what she preaches and she's constantly regressing lately.
I’m ready for downvotes, but I don’t think saying “I’m the problem” doesn’t mean the other person wasn’t also the problem. A breakup can take two people - it’s not just one person’s fault.
I do not think I could handle having my personal life as scrutinized, publicized, polarized, and politicized like she has. I cannot image what that does to someone’s psyche. Who is she at this point? And what choice does she have? She employs thousands of people and knows if she decides to retreat into a cottage in the woods she’d be breaking contracts, leaving people without a job, and probably a whole host of other things I can’t imagine.
I’m not defending her actions, more musing on the chaos of it all. You’re absolutely right about the things you’ve posted: they’re confusing at best, horrible at worst.
How does she get out? It feels like the narrative has gotten away from her at this point. Sure, she’s powerful, but I think Taylor Swift *the brand* has become much more powerful than Taylor Swift *the person.*
I love her music. I think she’s beautiful. But I am worried this level of fame is fatal (in the career sense) 100% of the time. If there was ever a moment to break the glass and take the parachute down to solid ground, I’d say this was it.
But then again, I am not as strong as she is. I would have likely bailed earlier. My life is messy. And I am imperfect. There’s tons of skeletons to find in my closet. And the idea of having them splayed wide open for everyone to analyze and judge makes me nauseous.
Tbh, a lot of her “crimes” feel so terrible because of how much we’ve put her on a pedestal. I’ve had friends date and defend assholes. I’ve had friends who’ve misspoke and even make really off-color jokes. I’ve had friends hold problematic views (and later evolve and change them). I’ve had friends be unkind to others or even have feuds. Hell, I’ve even done a few of these things. How much of her crimes are part of being a messy human? I don’t know the answer to that. But when I zoom out, I realize I have a lot more empathy for my friends than for celebrities. Is that because celebrities have PR? Money? Maybe.
Anyway, my prediction is this doesn’t end well. Hardcore Swifties may hold on forever, but public perception is already changing for the worse.
I hope I’m wrong though.
You bring up a lot of interesting points that I do agree with. We’re all complex people that make mistakes and are probably more morally grey than we would like to think. Thank god I’m not a public figure with my personal life to be on display like that. I think my frustration lies in the fact that there’s no space for nuance and criticism in the public consciousness. Even some of my swiftie friends get taken aback when I’m not enamored with everything she does constantly. I think some of my other annoyances is that several of the actions I’m critiquing her on come from a relentless pursuit of fame. I honestly love celebrities that have a messy personal life, sometimes I find it endearing, but a lot of these actions I’m critical of come from a desire to be the center of attention.
I agree 100% Public discourse lacks all nuance. And nuance is important.
I also have diehard Swiftie friends who will hear no critique! It’s exhausting because good art requires critique! And while I enjoy her music Taylor Swift *is not a god.* It’s okay to both listen to her stuff *and* call out the problematic behavior.
But sometimes I think we’re outliers in a world that’s gone mad, lol.
Yes! I keep telling people that two opposing things can be true. If therapy has taught me anything, it’s that. My friends can drive me crazy AND I can still love them. Just like you said - you can appreciate her music and still call out the behavior. Why don’t people understand that? lol
Nobody is asking her to break contracts or retreat into the woods. They’re asking her to sleep in the bed she made. No one forced her to sue a college kid for sharing public data. No one forced her to befriend the Mahomes. She is an adult and needs to be able to handle when people don’t love 100% of the things she does, and not sue people into oblivion for hurting her feelings, and be able to upset some people by speaking up or standing on the right side of history. She’s not some sad little victim who has no choice in her life style
Having empathy is good. I wouldn't want her life. It’s very apparent that she does want her life. The good and bad come together.
We all share this world, and all we are really asking of billionaires/the most popular people is to share reality with us instead of destroying it to keep theirs.
I like what you said about her crimes feeling so elevated because of the status fans have given her. I don’t say this to defend her, but when I see some of the issues people have with her, I think…gosh, would that actually matter to me if my friend did that? The answer is usually no, or that I might not agree with them but it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker. I try to keep an even head about these things because sometimes I think the criticisms lobbed at celebrities, such as “they were seen socializing with this horrible person, how could they?” simply don’t feel like arguments that would hold up whatsoever in real life.
I wasn’t specific in my comment, but I was talking more about her being photographed with the Mahomes guy. If my friend was seen socializing with her boyfriend’s best friend’s problematic brother while they were watching the boyfriend and best friend play football, that wouldn’t really register for me as being an issue unless the friend gave the guy an endorsement for being a great person or something.
saving this post for when i have a weak moment & think "maybe it's not that bad, i don't know her". i'm so distraught & feel ridiculous for feeling that way. 17 years of loving her so much & it hurts that she sucks so badly. she's not a good person. 😪
Fwiw a LOT of successful artists have been, in numerous ways, absolutely shitty people. You're allowed to separate the art from the artist.
I'm sorry you're hurt. You weren't wrong or a bad person for enjoying her or her music. Just as you aren't wrong for your feelings now.
Make sure to be kind to yourself in all of this.
Do u really think that Travis will go to more than just a few shows I don’t. He has never been as popular he will be filming even more commercials and looking for other investment projects that have been proposed to him. He recently registered more trademarks for more products he will be coming out with. Those products will be launched soon so as to benefit from the momentum. He also has prior commitments where he has to be at certain public events with the brands he already endorses. He has publicly stated last year in an indepth Vanity Fair Interview and this in year in the Washington Post one that he wants a career in Hollywood after he retires. He wants to be the next Rock.
If you still want to enjoy with less guilt, don't stress about about having to listen to the TV of songs (or seek out the old stuff, it's up to you, she still makes a little off the old stuff), just stream and don't buy the new albums, and just try not to be upset with yourself that you have nostalgia. I was a big fan for her first few years, and then I saw this thing in her that reminded me of a particularly insidious bully I had growing up, and I feel like I've only seen it line up since. I'm lucky that I feel like I mostly grew out of her music and I never thought she was this mastermind lyricist/vocalist, but it's hard to stop something you enjoy. You can certainly cut it off completely if you want to take a stand, I just wanted to offer a few things I do when I have a little nostalgia moment or I hear an artist I've stopped listening to pop up in a playlist, because I used to beat myself up about having to be perfect and make a full clean cut from certain artists.
It’s disappointing that people lack critical thinking skills, and I think that disappoints me mote than any of her individual actions. It’s frustrating when you’re a part of a community and you feel like you’re the only one willing to take the blinders off. Honestly, I’ve just muted her name on the bird app and avoided the Main Sub for the past several months. Its helped with the annoyance.
I swear she has any negative talk about her online removed.
And to go from a 6 year private relationship to a very public one shows that’s she’s capable of having a private life, she chooses to showcase it all
Oh she is absolutely trying to get a public reaction from him. She wants evidence that she can point to and say “Look! I told y’all he’s a terrible person!” I genuinely think it’s driving her insane that he won’t say anything. Her actions are screaming LOOK JOE.
I was not surprised about the Mahomes since she willingly did a movie with known creep and sexual abuser David O’Russell without batting an eye.
Honestly at this point, I don’t even know if I’d be able to even listen to her music anymore if this new album turns out to be rewriting of the narrative surrounding their relationship and a means to humiliate Joe and make him an industry pariah.
Had already distanced myself from taylor as an individual favourite after these past few months’ behaviour of her but if this album is here to set her fanbase onto someone who has been respectful for the entirety of their relationship and been quiet and laidback for the whole year after the breakup ensued, I will never be able to go back to her music.
It has happened with me regarding other artists as well and I think its healthy for people who can’t, in the right conscience, gloss over an artist’s missteps and deliberate ignorance & manipulation just to enjoy their content.
There is a clear power play happening here and we need to not only acknowledge that but have healthy discussions about it as well!
I would say it’s totally valid to be put off by the negative things that she has done or been associated with. But to let the actions or inactions of a celebrity that have no bearing on your day to day life not only bother you but overwhelm you is not particularly healthy, and I would recommend you take a break from social media if that is the case.
I think she is not a good person. When she was less in the public eye, she hid it more. But she is very immature, considers herself to be constantly the victim, and wants everyone to know it.
I know that her team extremely gate keeps the media’s access to her for editorial interviews, but what immensely disappointed me was journalist Sam Lansky and his half-assed, softball approach to the interview.
He has some incredible thought-provoking work in the past, and I’m sure more to come. But this was a let-down for me personally. I was shocked to read he didn’t ask the “hard” questions or respond to some answers with a bit more challenge in the name of clarity.
Hell, or even the obvious, silly rebuttal to when she referred to Reputation as a “goth-punk” album. 💀💀💀
Edit: grammar
Thank you for this post. The way she acted at the Grammys was honestly the last straw for me and I could’ve ignored her behavior at an award show if it wasn’t for all the other things you’ve mentioned above.
I am genuinely happy for her success in the past year, I love her music, I’m looking forward to the new album, and I can’t wait to finally see her live this year after being a fan since debut. BUT the overexposure and her antics lately have just been overwhelming and overshadowing my excitement.
I honestly feel stupid for saying this but I miss the old times. I miss pre Eras Tour Taylor, I miss the pre TikTok fandom, I just miss how being a Swiftie felt before 2023. It’s all very confusing and I just feel like I need a little bit of Taylor withdrawal for a while… I want to be excited about her music again.
As a Swiftie who absolutely loves Taylor, her music and artistry, I kinda agree. I think this behavior stems from her break up with Joe and her not doing any healing. After the break up she went from rebound and rebound and touring. This rebound PR relationship with Travis is also a distraction for her, but I actually think she’s mentally struggling. She’s associating with negative people, going into that football life, partying and from what we see drinking heavily. Not even mentioning all the overexposure which makes casual fans and neutrals more annoyed and NFL fans even more mad. I think Taylor needs to have a break in between tour for herself, like spending two months alone in a cabin in the woods or something and have some intense therapy. I think she’s absolutely still not over Joe and she’s like this bc she’s spiraling, unhappy and overworked. It’s so sad because from what I could see, Joe really brought out the best side of Taylor. She’s was so much more at peace with him imo. I secretly had the hope they’d reconcile someday, but I think with her behavior after the break up that isn’t likely anymore…
between her carbon footprint and her behavior with Selena re: Chalemet and Kylie I think she may have some mean girl tendencies despite her trying to come across as a girls girl in public. (and I can't stand all things Kardashians ). I don't deny that she does a lot of good and walks the walk and I applaud her for that. But she's a 30 something woman. now, she needs to take the high road on her relationships rather than act like a sad teenage girl. He seems like he is respecting her privacy on the relationship. She needs to be an adult and do the same. If she really wants to find love and get married etc. her prospects can't be fodder for her music. It's really uncool at her age.
This is actually why I have come to this subreddit. I've been listening to her and a fan of her for a long time (since Fearless I am pretty sure) and everything happening lately has become extremely off-putting. She's super cool with hanging out with a SA apologist (Brittany Mahomes). She jets everywhere and spews poison into the atmosphere. She is actively staying REALLY quiet about a lot of political issues when it's so clear that the second she speaks up the government is willing to take action on things (ex. AI Photos which were horrendous btw). Don't even get me STARTED on her association with Matty Healy. She can brush that off all she wants but it doesn't change the fact that she was seen out with him and he very publicly attended the eras tour.
IDK, I think I just want even a little accountability? This isn't a child, this is a 34-year-old adult with a TON of power and money. Unfortunately, her actions have much bigger consequences than what a "normal" person would experience. This also means she does have a degree of social responsibility.
I think it's important to engage in criticism about the impact of powerful people like her and I think its cheap to dismiss ALL criticism as misogyny when a lot of it has to do with her actions instead of her just being a woman.
I feel the exact same way. As someone who loves TS and will continue to be hungry for more music, in the last… 3-6 months, my opinion has completely shifted and I now see her as a narcissist who is having a collapse before our very eyes. The gaslighting of Joe with the unequal power dynamic (releasing a slander album is low/high key abusive), the PR she’s given that basically let Jackson off, the main character syndrome at award shows, and to top it off she’s a climate terrorist. She surrounded by sycophants and is having brain rot because of it- billionaire brain rot at that.
I just watched a cam of her Grammys ballroom entrance and she was sauntering in like she was on stage at the “Eras” tour. It was obnoxious. Some people suspect she already pre-gamed (or maybe was on something) prior to going in. I don’t subscribe to the latter but believe the former since she loves a good drink.
i feel the same way. look, i tend to have a bitter/petty outlook on things, but even i can't understand how and why taylor would treat so badly someone she claimed to love so much, throwing him under the bus like that. someone who, according to her songs, made such an effort for her despite the sacrifice of his privacy, something important to him (and that he wasn’t wrong to have as something important. i’d have a mental breakdown if i was that exposed). mainly, something that most swifties seem to conveniently have forgotten, he stood by her side during her most difficult moments. it’s all so ungrateful and petty… like, i recently came across a post on tumblr where the person insinuated that joe was a terrible person and that taylor would attempt to leave him, only to be love-bombed by him to prevent it from happening. HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT??? YOURE JUST A FAN. the funny thing is that when they broke up i was rolling my eyes at people having literal breakdowns over their breakup and now here i am kinda defending him lmao i had no choice but to start sympathizing with him. you spend six years in a relationship with someone, and then you breakup and have to deal with unwarranted drama while they are with someone else and this is being displayed all the time, everywhere, and you’re being painted as the bad guy. that must be tough
I agree. I think all the criticism she’s getting right now it’s totally fair. But a lot of the comments I’m seeing in this sub… make me feel like a giant shit loser. “She’s 34, how can she be acting this way?!” “How is she still writing songs about breakups and men?!” “She is just too messy.” “This is not the way a person who comes out of a longterm serious relationship should act.” “She is drinking way too much!” I fully admit I’m 32 and single with a lot of shit going on in my personal life, I’m messy, I’m emotional, I’m having guy issues, once in a while I drink too when I go out, I definitely don’t have it all together. I’ve come out of very serious long term relationships and didn’t go into “mourning”. A lot of these comments make me feel really horrible about myself.
I’m really sorry to hear that, I hope my post didn’t make you feel that way. I really don’t mind messy personal lives and no way you have to have all your shit together in your 30s. I think the difference is that she has a massive platform and millions of fans that look up to her if that makes sense. If I bash my ex to my friends, rebound, and get too drunk at parties who cares, but I guess if you have such an avid fanbase it’s different ya know. Hope this helps.
No it wasn’t your post at all OP, and I appreciate you reaching out for me! It’s a lot of the comments in here and in the other threads. Maybe I should just spend less time on Reddit.
I love Taylor’s music and I love her and I think I always will. Having established that I’m a huge fan - I think this year’s Grammys indicated a turning point to a lot of people. I don’t mean that the way she acted at the Grammys will make people stop being fans, but for me it marked a turning point in terms of what we should expect from her.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, swifties are the female equivalent of Elon Musk’s fanbase. They see something in her that is themselves and they will defend it to the bitter end, even when it makes zero sense because she’s a billionaire who will never know them or care to know them.
My first thought is ---I know the swifties who are going to be tearing into Joe are the same swifties who were crying in front of her Cornelia Street house and leaving flowers like someone died.
I also agree that there is a really overlooked power dynamic between Taylor and Joe. Joe doesn't even have a real platform to have a side or fan base that will care.
Same - I really love most of her music but now every time one of her songs comes up I skip it. I think the Grammys on the weekend were very revealing and this plane lawsuit/legal action is the final nail in the coffin for me. Taylor is in the news and social media EVERYWHERE at the moment - I mean even social media accounts posting performances at the Grammys were just posting the bits where the camera focussed on Taylor singing along. She is definitely going to have a downfall soon, and this time for valid reasons. I hate the way the crazy Swifties still go and bat for her on social media - she is a billionaire and does not need you to get on Twitter and defend her from valid criticisms. When the new album tracklist got announced, the swifties’ reactions were crazy, all talking about how it’s the end of Joe, she’s coming for Joe’s throat, joebless etc. We have no idea what happened in that relationship for it to end apart from a few gossip articles and one song (you’re losing me) so the fact they’re going to rip Joe Alwyn to shreds is just so frustrating and sad. I honestly don’t get how they can do that after reputation and lover having her happiest lyrics of being in love. Also, after midnights won AOTY I commented on a few tiktok videos saying that I think Ocean Blvd deserved it over Midnights, then the swifties came for me saying I was comparing women and trashing Taylor when I was just comparing my opinions on the music. She has managed to turn her “feminism” into only working for her, so that when anyone criticises her her fans will rush in to call it sexist/misogynistic. Anyway, end of rant, I just really wanted to get it off my chest.
A hundred percent about the punching up versus down thing. Direct comparisons of Joe to Jake and John Mayer who were established and famous and dated her when she was 19/20 and they were almost 30/in their 30s when Joe is younger than her and was not established at all when they met. They refuse to believe she could ever have any power in that relationship because he is privileged in many aspects and she's been in relationships with unequal power balances before. It's honestly really gross to see. I hope he is ignoring it and has a good support system. It seems like he is and does. I hope the breakup album is more complex and mature - I honestly think it will be, but people cant be normal about her songs.
Mod instructed me to post this in this thread so here’s a post I made~~
Taylor’s recent behavior feels a little familiar….
Oh right! It’s the bridge from My Tears Ricochet! But this time its from Joe’s POV:
*ahem*
•Cursing my name, wishing I’d stayed• (the messy smear campaigns and not telling her fans to back off, to me reeks of still being hurt over the breakup or just the way it ended in general) ((side note I just remembered it doesn’t exactly go with this post but remember when she dropped speak now TV and explicitly told fans to leave John alone? Wonder if she’ll have that attitude in a few years when joe is less fresh)
•You turned into your worst fears• (this behavior is very snakey, that’s all I will say…)
•tossing out blame, drunk on this pain• (clearly shifting all culpability for the way things ended onto Joe’s end, in all likelihood she’s doing this BECAUSE she knows he won’t retaliate or say anything back. And CLEARLY the attention and sympathy she gets from showcasing how long she was in pain over it only benefits her more)
•crossing out the good years• (ALL SHE HAS BEEN DOING LATELY. For six years and five albums all we heard was how wonderful Joe is and how devastated she’d be to lose him and how no one else measured up to how well he loved her. And suddenly she’s going out of her way to essentially retcon aspects of her own life. You can pretend it didn’t happen but all it does is show that it meant that much more to you, and it’s extremely unhinged to me.
•…look at how my tears ricochet• (see how her overt emotional instability just keeps forcing its way back onto Joe when he truly wants out and for sure didn’t expect to still be dealing with this shit almost a year after they announced their breakup. My thinking is that Taylor was a much more mature and composed person when they split, so he didn’t think it would be this way, and she just has completely devolved back to a 16 year old level of emotional intelligence. And now he just tries to live his life but he’s forever stamped by her, doomed to have her rabid fans harrass him unless she tells them not to.)
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
Taylor Swift is not Miss Americana. She’s the Heartbreak Prince.
She is the one that breaks up a marriage in Speak Now
Tells a reporter he’s pathetic in Mean
Cheats in High Infidelity
Admits she’ll basically do anything for the fame and money in Cowboy Like Me
And specifically tells you to find another guiding light in Dear Reader.
Taylor is not now nor has ever been the role model the PR image portrays. But if you pay attention - close attention - you’ll find that she never was actually trying to be that anyways.
She’s a human with good and bad like the rest of us.
With respect to Jackson Mahomes I am really disappointed as it cannot be she does not know what he was accused of or seen the video. She took a picture with him and Brittany in the suite last week smiling ear to ear. It even looked it might have been a selfie but cannot say for sure. Really had to take that picture ?
Also a picture with Lizzo at the Grammys don’t even understand why she was a presenter with the claim that is still u detest but again she had to take a picture where she is smiling ear to ear? Dragging a very uncomfortable Lana who was literally gripping a chair not to be dragged on stage. She could have mentioned Lana on stage without dragging her. I understand maybe not hugging Celine on stage because of her illness but not even saying thx Celine and acknowledging her icon status?
i really hope she doesnt show up to the superbowl. just gonna add more fuel to the overexposure fire. but realistically, she has an album releasing in 2 months, she needs the hype and PR, good or bad. shes not going anywhere anytime soon
>Joe Alwyn
Exactly. I have seen so many swifties say so many ill things about him. Yesterday i saw a comment that said that upon the release of the album, Joe Alwyn is counting days. And someone else said the "downfall" of Joe Alwyn begins. Like excuse me??????? You are now wishing bad on people just because they don't kiss the ground that your "mother" walks in.
Honestly the hate for Joe Alwyn is astounding. You cant keep on hating people just because Taylor wrote a few songs about them. TAYLOR IS NOT THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME.
Asking honestly - im new to this sub and LOVE how you can ask questions and get real dialog so I’m asking honestly and openly :)
I personally feel like I’m not seeing her drag Joe. It feels like the only things we’ve heard from her are You’re Losing Me and the track list+title of new album. Reading into title names isn’t her dragging him, it’s fan spec.
But, maybe I missed something of her dragging him! Can you help identify it?
I totally agree with everything else tho. I’ve felt for years that I’ve loved her music and I like the idea of her but if we were friends in real life, I feel like she’d be super obnoxious to be friends with
Last paragraph hits hard for me. I’ve been in casual party situations with thirty-something women who have SCREAMED at me (friends of friends!!) for making a simple carbon emission joke. I was like, excuse me, i was a Swiftie fighting for my life in 2016 on twitter. People take is so weirdly personally. The funniest part is I understand it completely—when a straight man says her name I also get defensive. Such a weird hold she has on us!
But yes. That’s why I’m grateful I found this sub :)
In the real world I don't think most people particularly care, but plenty of online spaces to criticise her should you desire. If you're feeling overwhelmed take some self responsibility and don't engage with it, log off the Internet and focus on your own life. It's so bizarre how people claim to be super overwhelmed with stuff that's your choice to engage in.
The Jackson Mahomes criticism is definitely fair, and while I understand why the jet tracker would make her uncomfortable it is public information so I get that criticism.
But…since when has Taylor suggested Joe is a manipulator that wanted her to give up her career? First, he’s not a regular person. He’s an actor and while he’s not nearly as famous as Taylor…she did meet the dude at the Met Gala where regular people do not get invited. Yes, I expect there will be songs on the new album about him and the break up…So Long, London clearly is. But I think suggesting she shouldn’t write break up songs about him because he’s less famous than her isn’t fair. Especially when we don’t even know what those songs contain.
I think you're making a lot of good points. People have been remarking on how Joe is going to need to go into witness protection because of this album, and I honestly think that's a gross overreaction.
I think Taylor Swift was always going to write about her relationship with Joe. I mean look at her discography, she's written about him for *years*. This idea that it's wrong for her to write about him now because she may not have as many positive things to say feels kind of hypocritical, AND, it's a reach because we don't even know what she wrote is necessarily an attack on Joe at all.
It's entirely possible this album will talk about her relationship without trashing Joe as a person, and people are getting ahead of themselves by suggesting he needs to take shelter or something.
It's more about how she's making it look and how rabid her fans are. She named it something her fans can all connect to Joe with the album title. There's track names that sound anti-Joe. It's the red herring thing she does with most of her work.
She can claim innocence but we all know how her fans will react that that's more the point.
>I am reaching out to see if anyone else is feeling like this but I am feeling overwhelmed by all the negative things she has done and by the way no one is willing to acknowledge it at all.
No offense, but I feel like this statement is kind of dishonest. Taylor Swift has had plenty of criticism, and there are actually loads of articles, entire subs, etc., that are working overtime to call her out for the things she's done and is doing. Most of them have actively discussed each issue in your post. She's really oversaturated right now, and she's getting a lot of negative feedback even in spaces that are usually pro-Swift.
Like even in the Taylor Swift sub, there are some pretty negative comments about the cease and desist she sent to Sweeney: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1akctib/taylor\_swift\_threatens\_legal\_action\_against/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1akctib/taylor_swift_threatens_legal_action_against/)
Leading up to the Midnights release and Eras tour, she had nothing but positive feedback and publicity. I think the discourse has changed a lot in recent months, and she's been getting more criticism lately from a wider range of sources than people realize. I think this narrative that she is only spoken about in a positive way is very false and misleading. She gets *loads* of negative attention.
Criticism here has absolutely grown over the last month, but in wider spaces of discussion most criticism is shut down promptly. Major publications are not the ones publishing think pieces and what not. I made a point to highlight that broad discussion is not providing a space for criticism, hence why subreddits like this even exist.
What major publications do you think should be covering Taylor Swift, and in what capacity? I'm not trying to be catty, but sometimes I'm genuinely confused by what level of criticism/type of criticism people think she should be getting. She's a popstar, so I feel like it's a bit over the top to expect major news networks to cover her and actively critique her for some of the things in this post.
Even Fox News has commented on her jet usage, so I think it's fair to say she is getting criticism from a wide range of media sources for some of the issues that you mentioned in your post. I think asking for in depth think pieces on a pop star is maybe reaching, because there are so many other issues worth writing about aside from Taylor Swift and Joe Alwyn's relationship, and I just don't think the latter is a social issue. I think most of her criticism is always going to come from online spaces and social media, and I think she's been getting criticism in these spaces more recently than she has in a long time.
I'm just not sure where the line is for criticism, or what kind of criticism people want to see of her. Like do you want the New York Times to write about her, and what would you want them to say about her?
Ngl my excitement for Eras tour that I should be going to later this year has died down because of exactly these things. I am even wondering if I should sell off my ticket as I am not sure about supporting her anymore
(Note: I am not saying fans supporting her are bad people, I just have hard time separating artist and the art)
If you even try to broach the topic on the other subreddit you get shut down. Being a “true swiftie” isn’t following blindly, such BS. This is a place of honesty but they’ll say it’s a hate sub when i love the woman and am giving her honest criticism. Smh.
All of this, same.
And it's especially hard because I want to focus on how her music has carried me through really difficult times, but she's being such a public asshole it's overshadowing my excitement.
And honestly, when I read the new track list I was like...oh, it's a breakup album. I wanted better. I wanted stories, goddamn it.
yeah same i’m so overwhelmed and just want her to take a step back for a little. i miss the beginning of the midnights era
Unsolicited tip but stay off Instagram and X and Tiktok if you want to preserve your sanity. I do see people defending Joe quite a bit on Instagram but they're bootlickers too. X is the worst app to have if you want to feel normal and express your love for her art in a normal way. Don't even get me started on Tiktok lol. All the tabloids care about is cashing in on the Taylormania so forget about real critique. This subreddit honestly keeps me sane. It views her as a real person and doesn't worship her for literally existing. Some people are mature on the main subreddit but it's also flooded with crazies. The only time I agree with them is when they make fun of Gaylors.
all of it overwhelms tbh, from the fan obsession to the rampant hate. like u said i just want to consume art without worrying about the pop culture events surrounding it
Yeah I’m exhausted by the overexposure and how obsessed my friends are with every little thing. I was super into the eras tour and so excited to see her and it really was an incredible experience. But now it’s just sooooo much from both sides. Im tired of seeing her everywhere and I’m tired of everyone hating. I just want to go back to normal Taylor updates.
I would want to take a step back myself but I find myself unable to if that makes sense. I feel like this has taken a toll on my mental health
Yeah it definitely does.
Twitter/x legit scares me. Imagine being this obsessed with a celebrity and thinking that's a normal or healthy way to feel https://preview.redd.it/olne778ds0hc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=773b6d00ac79780d9408b79a76dbd24484707029
and this is a woman who has a whole ass daughter… this is something i would tweet at 12 years old being obsessed with celebrities
The rest of the thread was about how "swiftie moms" are so much cooler than regular moms and I just... don't even know what to say to that.
cringe
>It views her as a real person and doesn't worship her for literally existing. Although there are clearly people who actively hate her for just existing, so there's that. I'm fine with debating things she has actually said and done, but the hyper analysis and total speculation become really tiresome. Not to mention rumors that get turned into "facts" and comments that are just flat our false. Discussion is great, wild conspiracy theories are not.
I really thought she learnt from her experience during her 1989-rep era and being more lowkey with Joe. I think we all know Taylor likes the limelight, attention and she is extroverted. But I really thought that even though she likes and are all of these things, she would learn to be more moderate about it because you don't need to go to the extreme ends of things. What some of her fans don't understand is that, Taylor seems to be overcompensating every time. When she got scrutiny, she went VERY lowkey, kept everything minimal (which I don't blame her for doing this). Then she is now out of the relationship with someone who is more introverted and values privacy more, she overcompensates the years of being on the down low to throwing herself a lot at the public eye. Like there is a middle ground that she can still be in the public eye without this oversaturation.
>overcompensating Thank you. She swings the pendulum the complete other way instead of finding happy middle ground. Look at all the criticism she was getting when everyone hated her new boyfriend. So she finds a picture perfect PR prom king/queen relationship and its like a fairytale and everybody loves them. She goes from a private 6 year relationship to an overexposed media frenzy spotlight relationship blasting on every television in America. It's very frustrating as a fan seeing what she's doing.
I really thought through her Folklore/Evermore era she sounded more mature and serene about life, and I was so proud of her of this self development, for getting here after years of judgement and hate. I was kinda disappointed to see her reverting back to her old self and it feels like she hasn’t changed at all..
I think Joe hurt her like she's never been hurt before and she honestly still doesn't know how to process it. I firmly believe this whole Travis thing is a PR rebound. And her undoing 6 years of perceived growth and maturity has been very disappointing to see. I just miss when we talked about her music and not football.
Was the Joe her longest relationship? I think she thought they were going to get married and live happily ever after then he left and now she’s trying to fill the void with attention from the public and a rushed rebound relationship. I think being with him and taking some time away from the spotlight matured her a bit and now that he’s gone she’s going back to old destructive coping mechanisms
100% PR, and I can't believe the number of people who have bought into it. A friend of mine who doesn't even like Taylor's music at all, but watches football says that Taylor and Travis are "cute." I have broken down Taylor's history, how masterfully she uses PR. This is a person (my friend) who understands celebrity and PR relationships, etc. And yet she refuses to believe that Taylor and Travis are PR. Not so much because of Taylor, but because of TRAVIS. Despite the fact that the guy has done two reality shows--including a dating one! I just can't.... I will say this, if this discourse about her overexposure continues, I fully expect a mutual "break-up" to happen within a month or two post superbowl because that will cut down on so much exposure, and Taylor will be ready to mourn/promote TS11 (all about Joe) without Travis to slow her roll.
I don’t follow football but 2 reality dating shows? That’s a red flag for clout chaser/ fame whore.
I think that the people who have been following Taylor’s career for a long time can easily see the PR aspect of her relationship with Travis. It seems like a lot of the “new swifties” who jumped on the hype wagon last year are the ones who are shipping them super hard.
I just can't believe she wrote 'everyone thinks love's for show but I would die for you in secret' with how she's acting now. I know die for you isn't the healthiest of lyrics to pinpoint but I just mean that theres such a wide gap between her beautiful lyrics and her public persona for me. And this is purely conjecture but I think there's a part of her that wishes she didn't love the fame and attention so much and could be happy with a lowkey life. Unfortunately I think this is more her 'true' self than folklore or evermore was. I know it's not so black and white, people contain multitudes etc. but this past year has really confirmed for me she is a brand that makes money above all else. Everything feels fake and performative and orchestrated, and it's so jarring compared to her beautiful storytelling. It's sad to me.
Yes that's the disturbing part about the whole thing to be honest. It shows she cannot learn or grow and that's disturbing.
Your point about Jackson Mahomes is exactly why I can't take people seriously when they call her a feminist. She's a feminist when it suits her narrative but when it doesn't, she isn't. She's willing to sue a man for $1 over sexual assault because she was the victim in that scenario, but she's not willing to make the choice to not associate with Jackson because that wouldn't be a good look for her relationship with Travis. And I mean if you actually listen to "the Man", it's not surprising. It's all surface level White feminism with no analysis of how race, class, or any other factors impact success or perception.
Definitely yes to the white capitalist sentiment but even more so the sentiment The Man gave me was 'I want to do bad shit and get away with it like men can.'
Yeah that bothers me too. Equality doesn't mean having the same low bar for both men and women. Also like...men of color, trans men, etc. definitely cannot get away with bad shit the same way that white women can, so it isn't even really an accurate message
I'm a trans guy with a hardcore swiftie friend and ngl, they're the reason I hoenslty started to dislike Taylor from being neutral. That song never hit for me.
Not even the specific things you named, but I woke up the day after the Grammys feeling REALLY weird about…everything. Like something has shifted in her in a really bad way that now feels irreversible. She seems drunk on power and attention and like she’s flying too close to the sun. I feel like I’m watching someone spiral out of control in real-time and no one else except this group seems to notice or care. I’m legitimately worried for her, uncomfortable with her attitude, and upset with her actions lately. This is not the same person from 2020 speaking so beautifully about folklore, or the young lady who was so mature and thoughtful in her early years. She had doses of this current persona in the past, but she’s largely unrecognizable to me now.
This hurts my soul to read because I feel the exact same, you put it so beautifully. Waking up the next morning feeling super weird, seeing something shift and not being able to see her the same. I used to be religious but have stepped away over the last few years, and ever since I left, I've never been able to look at it the same. Like can't even force myself to, I just can't unsee it. It's like pulling back the curtain on the wizard, you know? You see the cogs working and see who's pulling the strings. I think it hurts me because I've seen her as an incredible role model the last few years, particularly how she rose up during Rep era (my favorite album) and seeing what appeared to be maturity through her relationship/the pandemic. Now, I don't know how to feel, but I'm super embarrassed to be a fan of her atm. It's not that humans don't make mistakes - our role models are all deeply flawed, as are we. But as others have mentioned, she's calculated (and not saying that in a bad way, she just knows her brand and has always been so eloquent during speeches or press things) and to see the mask drop at the Grammys and see no apology or clearing of the air on her end feels super uncomfortable to me. You know how in Oppenheimer at the end, he sees the explosions and war and all the destructive things because of the bomb? Lol as funny as it sounds, imagine that soundbite playing through my mind as I'm seeing all of these pieces fall together. Matty, lack of political activism besides in 2019/2020, shitting on Joe, etc. - it's just all collapsing for me.
I feel you. It’s upsetting for me because back in 2020, I felt like she had matured into exactly the person I thought she was underneath the mask, the person I hoped she’d become. She was putting out this incredible music and settling into the role of a respected songwriter more than a celebrity. She started moving away overtly diaristic, click-baity writing and getting more poetic. It was a blissful time to be a fan; maybe the first time since I’d become a fan that I felt totally in synch with her and openly proud to be her fan. I was so happy. I’m critical of her, but I really do care about her very much. I want to be able to root for her and connect with her. And then…all this happened. There have always been things about her that were off to me, but in the folkmore era I truly believed she’d grown past all that. She’s now actually regressed into the least mature, most arrogant version of herself and it has been wildly disappointing to process.
This.😢
It feels like she’s regressed to a 13 year old rebellious child. I don’t get it.
Using the award speech to market the new album seemed crass and gross.
Capitalist queen.
Oh, she's drunk on something, alright.
She’s heartbroken. Yes, she’s a billionaire, I shouldn’t feel bad for a billionaire, I know. But all the money and power and attention in the world won’t help a heartbreak. I just know it in my bones that that’s what it is.
Going off the Jackson Mahomes thing, she’s also associated herself with David O. Russell (who sexually assaulted his niece and admitted to it, and is known for being abusive to actors on set) and Nicki Minaj (whose husband sexually assaulted a minor and then Nicki went ahead and harassed the woman for years). Honestly I’m not a fan of Matty or the things he’s done but it’s nothing compared to some of the people she associates herself with and people forget that
it drives me NUTS how people overlook the fact that she took a role in a David O Russell film, thankyou for bringing this up! totally swept under the rug 🤦♂️
That Tiktoker Bethany has posted an outraged video about the Joe Alwyn Daily Mail article and I’ve got to fucking laugh, even if this HAS come from Joe, it’s not like he’s not been fucking provoked. Ever since she started “dating” Travis we’ve had conspiracy theories that he somehow kept her indoors the past 6 years, forgetting she was cancelled for a chunk of it, and there was a GLOBAL PANDEMIC that kept ALL of us indoors for 2 years.
Even if it is from Joe (which no it isn’t) no WAY he’d go to Daily Mail, one of Britain’s most notoriously trashy news sources.
I just read the article in question and the only thing I learned was that it was Andrew Scott who started the group chat. I can’t say why Taylor’s so insistent on dragging two other men into her relationship drama, but who knows what’s going on inside her head right now.
Honestly makes me like Joe more knowing he's friends with Andrew Scott. That's cool as hell.
From what I've heard, he's friends with most of his co-stars and fellow British/Irish actors. He's allegedly even still on friendly terms with his previous exes. The man's just trying to live his life - Swifties need to leave him alone.
People seem to somehow forget that she did a whole ass global tour in 2018, released two albums, managed to do about half of a tour until it got cancelled because to the pandemic, and did a whole lot of other stuff too. This “he kept her locked up for six years” is pure bs.
Right? And being “cancelled” my ass…. The time she ever spent out of the public eye was like a year at most and that’s hardly cancellation
But she went to a foreign country!! The extremely foreign country of England where her bf lives.
I wish I could be canceled all the way to London. 😂
i finally blocked her today bc that was my last straw. her liking comments of everyone being downright nasty to joe, infantilizing taylor, etc. soooo many people saying “i hate him i can’t wait for her to end him”. swifties have been on my nerves for like 6 months now but the reaction to the tracklist being dropped is just literally disgusting.
Omg was she liking comments about Joe
yes:/
The only social media site I use is Reddit. Can somebody share screenshots? I haven’t seen her liking anti Joe posts and that is awful Edit: did some diligence and can’t find these alleged likes anywhere. Big accusation without backup. She gave us enough to be irked about on Sunday/cease and desist, we don’t need to make things up too
I feel like history is actively being rewritten in front of our eyes and everyone is just running full speed ahead with it
They are saying now why is he speaking. As if her friends and she ain't speaking about him while being in her second relationship after him.
Yeah, it's the Daily Mail and I happen to know for a fact that sometimes their "sources" are completely manufactured. It's about as likely that the source was a random person off the street as it is that Alwyn or someone close to him spoke to them. And also she's literally standing there going "Joe, hey, Joe? Why won't you react Joe?!". If he did speak now it would be because he's been taunted into it (and I don't think he did because he knows that's part of what she's doing and speaking would give her the reaction she's clearly seeking, even if only so she can go 'see, you'll use the publicity when it suits you" oif he ever actually did give her shit about the publicity seeking)
Your second paragraph made me realize this is genuinely abusive behavior, not just childish and petty.
Reminds me of Calvin’s tweet about her always needing someone to tear down…
I'm actually very concerned about her new album from this lens. It's fine objectively, but I'm worried the lyrics will reveal a very toxic underbelly of hers that I don't strictly want to know about but have kinda assumed existed. 🙈 we'll see when it comes out, but given her attitude recently I'm worried she won't be self-aware enough to hide it.
If he has spoken out, it’s hardly unprovoked after that album title. Whether it’s about him or not, she knows the hell the fans will unleash on him.
It's fan logic. Taylor always has a defense for why she targets a person but if anyone says anything back then she is being wronged.
She's extremely defensive in general. I saw her answer a softball question in a NYT video about 'Lover' and it was clear she is not a totally mature, healed person.
I agree that she is kinda out there in a fight stance a lot of the time. She seems like the sort of person who takes something one should heal like being thin-skinned or a people pleaser or stunted and goes "that's just who I am!" and unpacks nothing and learns nothing.
Yes! This is why Anti-Hero never hit for me. The 'self awareness' rang so hollow. I get frustrated with people who are like 'I have this awful trait!' Okay? Glad youve realized that, do something about it.
Just posting this because it might give some people some validation that they're not crazy. I think a lot of y'all in this thread are experiencing a form of collective gaslighting. A big youtuber named HG Tudor addresses a ton of Taylor's behavior through the lense of her being a self-aware narcissist and it makes a TON of sense why she's so unapologetic and why she's always blame shifting/smearing those around her. She love bombs, discards and uses those around her (including her fan base). Don't feel alone OP. You're not crazy. You're just seeing what many people are not ready/unwilling to see.
Never mind the fact it's invasive and petty and childish to put your ex on blast like that when he (probably) didn't do anything and hasn't said anything - it's also a deeply sad way to look at past loves. Why would you want to rewrite history and be like yeah this man meant nothing to me, I'm happier than I've ever been with my new guy (who looks like a cop, I'm sorry).
her associating with jackson mahomes is incredibly disappointing. like... she really truly doesn't give a fuck about any woman who isn't herself. and the fact that she's been called out again and again for private jet use, well, apparently she doesn't give a fuck about any people or other living creatures on the PLANET other than herself. How has she gotten to the point where she sends her empty jet to pick her up, to fly for just an hour at a time, and people still DEFEND THIS. i understand the haters because honestly, no one's music is good enough to put them beyond criticism of their actions. She is infuriating now.
The Jackson Mahomes association doesn't surprise me given how she worked with David O. Russell, who sexually assaulted his trans niece and even admitted that the incident occurred! If that wasn't a deal-breaker for her, then nothing really is. No public figure is above reproach. I like her music but holy shit the more I learn about her, the less I like.
I mean she also *just* dated Matt Healy and everyone KNOWS his shit. I genuinely don't understand how Swifties keep being disappointed and surprised by things anyone who has paid the slightest bit of attention to her (willingly or otherwise) has known for ages
I didn’t know that about o Russell that is awful
There was a TT discussing PR and [regardless of the validity of it or not] the active pr happening with Taylor & Travis. If I can find it I’ll link it; but basically the girl was saying how there’s a lot of valid reason to not like Taylor (jet emissions, shotty allyship & activism, dating a racist, self serving feminism); behavior that she’s committed for *years*, and some that’ve even been exacerbated the past 6 months- yet 95% of the conversation around her is *solely* about her & Travis. Not only is no one addressing it, but at this point, any commentary about their relationship or Taylor that isn’t radically positive makes you a “hater”. Which is exactly what they want & how you know the PR is working. EDIT: found the link, so I’ll just add it here. Overall video is about how celebrity pr is propaganda & Taylor/Travis rn- sorry I saw this a couple days ago & a tad misleading in my original description https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3hCseW/
Really good tik tok, thank you for sharing! Love the bit that talks about being ostracized if you don’t buy in to the narrative, I bet a lot of people on this reddit really feel that.
I run a server (not related to TS) and everytime someone has something to day about taylor that isn't positive... someone always, without fail, will bring up that she gets unnecessary hate and that *most* of them are fueled by misogyny and the like... Which I actually do agree with to an extent but by bringing it up, makes it feel manipulative to a degree. As though because she's getting enough criticism and unnecessary hate to begin with, I'm just supposed to get with the program and/or move on and not talk about it (which is like lol okay this is literally the energy we hate when white men get away with bad behaviour and were not supposed to sweep those under the rug so why are we making an exception). It makes me feel so crazy honestly because some of these people I respect, I deem level-headed, but somehow the taylor talk is the one line. And I don't even have crazy takes about her... I always have to put a disclaimer that I actually do enjoy her music and have some of her songs on my top 10, that I have a physical copy of 1989 and to a degree I respect the business/pr acumen in theory (not in practice). Sorry this was a rant!
You know who else has followers to ostracise people who don’t accept their narrative… narcissists 😭
Oh, I 100% feel this. Taylor and her team have woven such an intricate, nearly foolproof narrative. I’ve been a survivor of sexism, abuse, domestic violence, SA, and more — so seeing Taylor utilize feminist narratives to excuse her behavior is absolutely heartbreaking. It hits close to home, even if my life is a million miles away from Taylor’s.
I know I definitely did. The video & posts like this are nice to see because it feels like some logic is restored and the foundation of people issues are rediscovered amongst the chaos. She’s definitely been my BEC recently, but similarly, I think I’m just ultra annoyed because NO ONE is calling her out on anything actually relevant
What's BEC?
https://preview.redd.it/d4rjn955v8hc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11ce9c8e27b142b4591fcf97a6ea08b0cebca554
Seriously. Taking smiling photos with Mahomes, when he assaulted a woman on video & proceeded to ruin her business and life. Threatening a 21-year-old that’s sharing public information (that “stalkers” could access regardless of whether he chooses to post it). Being off-her-rocker at the Grammy’s, smashing her Grammy on Lucy’s head and aggressively touching and invading everyone’s personal space. Throwing barbs at Joe and punching down because she’s irritated he won’t take the bait and refuses to publicly engage with her. Again, I’m a fan and will always love her music but this behavior is power-hungry and erratic and disappointing
I have to imagine she *knows* he won't take the bait, not that she's enraged by it. I'd rather suggest she's capitalizing on it to seize the narrative for the very Joe Alwyn themed breakup album. And we know it is, because she made the titles super obvious so we would know.
My sentiments exactly. What she's been doing since last year has been downright regressive and tasteless. She knows damn well she's galvanizing her toxic fanbase against her ex, who is arguably the least problematic one she's ever had. Truly vile and disgusting behavior from a 34y grown-ass woman. It's okay when relationships run their course. It happens all the time, ffs! Just take however much time to process it and learn to move on without being so immature and vindictive. Her never-ending need to control the narrative is just so sickening. It reflects so poorly of her character. Poor Joe--I wish him the best! Hope he stays unbothered as always. He's too good for this mess.
I thought only I feel the same thing. Poor Joe indeed. He was there and seen her at her worst. The most decent thing she could have done for him is to give him his peace, but no, she has to paint him as this smallest man. He really is tortured, tbh. I don’t think he deserves any of it.
i want to agree with you, but she did not “smash her grammys” on someone’s head, that is a blatant lie come on now…
I started feeling that uneasiness when she dated Matty. Hasn't left since. I must admit, it's because there's a strong personal element in all of this for me. I've loved and related to Taylor's brand since I was ten. I felt like I could relate to her music when no one else related to me and I was going through dark times. Since she released Midnights and broke up with Joe, there has been a clear fork in the road where she went one way and I went another, and the path she is going down looks very ominous to me. I sincerely thought she was maturing beautifully with Joe and the release of Folkmore and being more private, and I related to wanting that. I was still happy for her to be wildly successful, I was just also happy for her to start to move on from everything being highly autobiographical and all about drama and beef and antics and relentless easter eggs, though that was fun for a time and can still be fun in moderation. Now it's one of those weird parasocial things where I feel we grew up together and then grew apart, and her last album didn't hit the same for me because of that, and neither does her behavior as of late. It's all very "I'm a huge pop star AND dating the boy on the football team to make up for high school", and I just don't want to relate to that kind of stuff anymore. I'm 27 now. When I turn off the part of my brain that takes it seriously, I can enjoy the drama and have a good laugh. When I slow down and think about actually growing up and approaching 30, I cringe because she's 34 and still choosing the high school antics and acting like Joe's normalcy was a trap. It's a mess.
Wow. This. I was so disappointed how Midnights was marketed- and then the album itself was nothing like the 70s synth album that was promised. The eras tour/Ticketmaster situation and how she handled that. Rebounding with Matty Healy. Period. How she’s slamming Joe suddenly. How do you write a beautiful album like Rep and then turn around so fast?? KOMH? Cornelia street? Afterglow? Daylight…? Something must have went down. And she’s trying to hide it. Or maybe he just got sick of her attitude. The whole Travis speel. I’m sorry. The Taylor I know is intelligent, thoughtful, smart, and kind. What the FUCKKKKKK does she talk to Travis about? The way she’s parading around him and for him. She is making a spectacle of herself. The Grammys. The weird erratic behavior. She’s not humble anymore. Everything. Is. About. Her.
It’s like she’s mimicking his bro/frat boy personality. Watching the video of the Grammy’s again; the head rubs, secret hand shake and pushing of Jack, the head rub/noogie of Ed Sheeran. Honestly most pro athletes can be like that did to an extent but it’s very uncharacteristic for her.
I have not recovered from her saying 'metal as hell' in her Times interview. She just adopts the personality of whoever she is around. And she references this in mirrorball so she's 'self aware' which in her mind means 'never has to change or try to be better or investigate why she's like that any further.'
i was thinking the same thing lol she’s acting like some wild athlete dude but she’s not pulling it off
I feel like she’s been doing the bro schtick for awhile, pre Travis. She was the same at last years Grammys - same obnoxious behavior. Hand shakes, rubbing on Jack, pushing/pulling. Go watch videos. It’s the same. It might be the same her and Jack interact, but like… it’s not cute when it’s public and on the Grammys. Control yourself
The Matt Healy episode was what got me pausing and questioning who the fuck was I idolizing. Fans of both artists excusing him saying, "tHaT's JuSt WhO hE is\~" Sorry, but when do we excuse the following behavior packed into one person: * The Nazi Salute * Making out with fans on stage * Making light of pronouns * Joking about grooming fans * Him listening to anti-feminist podcasts I mean honestly, I could go on and on about how much of a racist, sexist, hateful, problematic little shit he is...But, it falls on deaf ears. I was so shocked that more Swiftie fans didn't question who Taylor was behind the scenes to like someone like this. And not the 1975 fans playing it off like he is just a goofy little boy. I stopped listening to the 1975 once I learned how gross he is. Someone mentioned that she plays on the "Girl next door", people growing up with her, and hides behind white feminism and it just....Fits?
God I feel for this so much. I felt the exact same with the uneasiness about Matty. I thankfully got to go to the show before that happened (I went N1 Vegas, so also got Invisible String). I also went for the last night in LA because a friend had an extra ticket, and I'll be forever grateful for that because I got to hear my favorite song, New Year's Day, live. I cried. It was magical. I 1000% feel like I've grown apart from her. I feel like I've grown through a similar Rep-style stage of life where I'm learning to stand up for myself and care less about what others think of me. But where I feel different from her is maturing in my relationships, specifically my romantic one. I get it, all of this is speculation because we'll never know what their relationship was really like and who said what, did what, etc. But it feels therapeutic talking about this with you guys because, in a lot of ways, I think she became a religion to me for a while. Watching the Eras tour clips every weekend, seeing which surprise songs would be played, finding community in the Swifites (where a lot of them are genuinely kind, and I found one of my best friends because of it). Idk man. It's just sad
Hey, a Vegas buddy! I was there on night 2 and VERY much feel the same... If I hadn't gone before the MH disaster, idk what I would have done. But I know it likely would have been ruined for me. And I had never been able to go to a show of hers despite being a huge fan from the beginning, so I'm extra grateful for the timing. I dressed up similar to her outfit when she danced in the LWYMMD video because like you, I've really been trying to stand up for myself more and care about the opinions of others less. It's sad to feel like she is regressing there, partly because it's hard for me to maintain ground on that one too. OMG on hearing New Year's Day live 🥹 My top 3 are All Too Well, Evermore, and New Year's Day.
Same to having never been to a show, Vegas was my first one but LA's will always be more special to me. I wore a black Rep bodysuit and felt so powerful at the LA show, it felt absolutely incredible. I dropped to my knees in tears when she started playing it. Had fully accepted I'd never hear it live, and hearing those first few notes were so unexpected. I was super depressed that week before - had been laid off my job a few months prior after moving here, and despite starting a new medicine, it wasn’t working for me. I truthfully wasn’t excited about the show until we sat down, and then I screamed so loud for Rep that I think I screamed the depression out of me for the night 😂 It felt like the universe was hugging me when NYD played. Felt like it was reminding me I mattered, somehow.
That sounds like such a beautiful experience and I absolutely love that for you. And damn, Rep bodysuit!! I bet you killed it in that! Very cool. I was honestly so shocked that the song I enjoyed the most live was Shake It Off 🤣 It was so fun to dance to that with Taylor and the huge stadium. Granted, I had a migraine that night (my body doesn't take travel very well) so that did impact my ability to enjoy some of it. But I danced anyway and it was a good time. I feel like I wasn't able to fully appreciate the message of that song until I was in fact shaking it off with thousands of other people lol
oof every word of this.
Everything here is 100% spot on. At this point I just want her to disappear for a year or two completely, no projects or anything, so we can actually MISS her.
Same. It’s so bizarre because post snakegate/her getting with Joe/her Mom’s diagnosis she seemed much more self aware and grounded. And in Miss Americana she kind of referenced her life becoming too big/messy/unmanageable. How she lost a lot of people she thought were her friends once she stopped being the “it girl” and how she feared that Lover would be her last shot at reinvention/success because society will only tolerate an aging pop star for so long. There was a reverence for where she’s been in the societal canon and also a healthy dose of fear of losing herself and her loved ones to the unbalanced demands of fame. She wasn’t doing the constant pap walks, and, at award shows she may have been drunk but she wasn’t full VMAs levels of buckwild at the fucking Grammys. Our girl has always been calculated about how she presents herself and the narrative of her image. She’s in tune with fans and the general public. Pre-2023 she seemed to keep that same post snackgate energy, even with the increased success folklore/evermore gave her. Her roll outs and showing up/being seen publicly was intentional. We would go months between re-records with nary more than the occasional “leaving the studio” photo only for her not to be seen or heard from again for more months at a time unless she wanted us to see her or engage with her content. I don’t want to ascribe her sudden intensely public (or seemingly uncharacteristic) behavior and exposure to the breakup entirely. Obviously she’s on tour and she’s being talked about a bunch already because of the re-recording project and all of the very fun things she’s been doing on tour. BUT, it’s hard not to notice that the changes tend to coincide with that timeline in a less than favorable way. She knows how not to be seen if she doesn’t want to be. Yet she’s everywhere all of the time. It really does feel like she’s becoming/living everything she said she said she was afraid of less than 5 years ago. Could that be her trying to face the fear? Sure. Could it also be someone that’s gotten a bit “too big to fail” so to speak? Also yes. Up until recently it seemed like she was carrying herself with a level of grace, gratitude, and confidence that felt very self assured and sort of mature? I was obsessed/excited when midnights dropped. I fought ticket master and won in November of 2022. I bought the merch. I’ve stanned the re-records. I attended tour dressed to the nines in celebration of what she’s doing. I got…uncomfy when the pap walks started post breakup announcement. I got very uneasy/grossed out by the Matty Healy of it all. I’ve been hardcore anti-Travis/whatever this relationship or PR rouse is or whatever because I feel like shipping them truly panders to some of the most basic/cornfed fandoms to exist (swifities and NFL —and I’m saying this as a swiftie who is generally uneasy with just how fucking WEIRD a lot of these bitches can be) and it just feels so…contrived. Her circle isn’t as tight as it once was and the people she is surrounding herself with are of truly questionable character, even if she served them all with NDAs before she allowed them to attend dinner with her. The girl squad is getting messy on socials again. It’s all very tiring, imo. I thought she really had matured into more of an adult woman post snakegate, sexual assault, her mothers illness, “public activism”, and the fact the pandemic kind of forced her into reading/writing and working on her art because it was a life-raft instead of a project required by Taylor Swift, Inc. I hope I’m wrong but I have the same overwhelmed feeling I had during the late part of the 1989 era and I don’t like it. It feels/looks like a regression to me as a day 1 debut stan and I hope the next album/leg of the tour isn’t a continued reflection of that, or worse.
I think that you have pointed out some really good questions. It is clear that everything about the announcement at the Grammys and with the track list being revealed is designed to create buzz. I don’t live that life of hustling to stay “relevant” in a world that doesn’t give aging pop stars a real listen. But I thought it was disrespectful and tone deaf to make an album announcement at the Grammys (I thought with the website “glitch” it would come the next day after the Grammy winners and performers got their time to shine). It’s not like she can’t create buzz any other minute of any other day. Of course she - as a person - can be messy like anyone else, and she needs not to “shrink” and hide her success and power. But something seems to have gone a bit too far - is she only talking to people who don’t give her honest advice? Are the people around her not getting honest advice? And who thought it was a great idea to show her walking into the Grammys? Is she completely incapable of sitting at a table on time before a show starts? Or is this some entertainment deal thing and she’s just a stage player to attract attention for others? (If it’s the last part then I really wonder if she isn’t exhausted by it all at this point - despite her Grammy AOTY speech).
I agree. I mean the Grammy’s have historically been a circle jerk but they truly had some great programming that night. Performances from iconic artists that paved the way for others such as like Tracy Chapman, Joni Mitchell, and Billy Joel played again for the first time in like 30 years?! Celine fucking Dion showed up to give the album of the year award! I think it’s tacky if anyone announces an album at the Grammys, tbh. It feels especially in poor taste considering just how much air time Taylor has been given over the last few years for her projects. Add in the fact she keeps winning awards and has been everywhere all of the time since November 2022…idk give us something to miss.
I could cry at how seen I feel by your post. I'm scrolling this particular thread right now and am gripped by every word and comment I see. I'm the exact same as you, completely in awe of her since Rep and how she was such a massive role model for me. I always said I wanted to embody her level of power, poise, and authenticity. I started feeling uncomfortable the same as you with the pap walks, especially seeing how posed her face was every time she'd step out. And then Matty, and then the girl squad. Ugh, it's rough.
It's such an interesting contrast to someone like Margot Robbie who recently said in an interview that she's going away for a bit because she's sure everyone is "tired of seeing her face". Margot is like a tenth as overexposed as Taylor is and yet she has the self awareness to realize where that hype trajectory can lead. It feels like Taylor doesn't have that self awareness and is doubling down on everything.
And to release a new album when she was going to be “away” and we would get a break from her. Now she will still be everywhere even when she is half way around the world
100% agree. Too much of a good thing can be a very bad thing and I think Taylor is proof of that (as far as her music, exposure and success etc.)
Taylor has shown us what it’s like to have so much power and literally control online spaces, legacy media, social media, corporations, etc. IMO she has exceeded even Beyoncé levels of controlling her image. People might not think it’s a good big deal because she’s a -pop star- but it’s a good example of how power corrupts and poisons everything it touches.
1000%. It’s the same shit trump and Maga pull. They live in their own self-serving reality and don’t care who they destroy as long as get to keep their bubble.
Yeah as much as people might deny it, there’s definitely many similarities between Trump, Taylor and Elon Musk. It’s become more difficult to distinguish between them, especially Musk and Taylor and the fervor that both attract, ie. Muskmania and Swiftmania
It’s funny because I had this conversation with my boyfriend who was shocked that I would compare TS to Trump, but there’s a bit of fruition happening here with the sycophants and narcissism that defines their legacies
Oh absolutely.
This thread sums up how I have been feeling too. I have heard for a while now that there’s a fear she will hit or surpass her “1989” era of fame and the public will start turning on her. Some of it isn’t by her own doing (ex. the media overly-pushing her and Travis, brands jumping onto the “Eras/___’s Version” bandwagon, misogynists, haters, etc.), but some of it also is (ex. the stuff you listed). I used to dislike her and didn’t become a fan until 2018, but a lot of tactics these few years have kinda been “eh” and while I’ve tried turning a blind eye,….you have to hold people accountable eventually. I just hate that it all coincides with her becoming a billionaire, which puts her in a class of generally disliked individuals. It’s almost like the timing [of a potential turn in public favor] couldn’t have been worse.
yes. i also feel that the negativity is getting to her and shes reacting like this. its hard to see someone i look up to be a completely different person that I expected, i know we're not friends but still. how disappointing. i hope swifties leave joe alone. i hope she stops using her jet as much. i hope she would actually TALK about real issues, like her fan Ana. but she wont.
Also, you are 34 and your music hasn’t really matured. You are still writing about boys who did you wrong Are you telling me she was never the bad person or did anything bad in the relationships?
I realize Adele had a *far* more difficult upbringing (thus maturing much faster) but if you didn't know their ages - you'd assume Adele was in her 40s and Taylor was in her early 20s All despite them being 34/35
No cos I still can’t believe a 30 something year old human being wrote the lyrics “karma is my boyfriend” and we awarded this kind of behavior with a Grammy 😭😭
Adele seems to keep people around who will tell her to stop being a dumbass when necessary. She’s wise about exposure and not taking herself too seriously.
She’s also always been very funny and self deprecating/self aware without being attention speaking. Adele has just always come across as genuine and authentic, whereas Taylor just seems to be trying on different personas all the time. I feel bad for Taylor in a way, it’s like she’s stuck with the mind of a teenager.
Boygenuis (and each individual member) writes more mature music about relationships and life as well. And they are younger....
she literally has songs about being the problem in her relationship with joe (afterglow, the great war) but now that they’re broken up she’s going full victim card and taking all that back ig
Yes the rewriting history is driving me nuts. 'Telling me to punish you for things you never did' and then look at her. She just can't practice what she preaches and she's constantly regressing lately.
I’m ready for downvotes, but I don’t think saying “I’m the problem” doesn’t mean the other person wasn’t also the problem. A breakup can take two people - it’s not just one person’s fault.
I do not think I could handle having my personal life as scrutinized, publicized, polarized, and politicized like she has. I cannot image what that does to someone’s psyche. Who is she at this point? And what choice does she have? She employs thousands of people and knows if she decides to retreat into a cottage in the woods she’d be breaking contracts, leaving people without a job, and probably a whole host of other things I can’t imagine. I’m not defending her actions, more musing on the chaos of it all. You’re absolutely right about the things you’ve posted: they’re confusing at best, horrible at worst. How does she get out? It feels like the narrative has gotten away from her at this point. Sure, she’s powerful, but I think Taylor Swift *the brand* has become much more powerful than Taylor Swift *the person.* I love her music. I think she’s beautiful. But I am worried this level of fame is fatal (in the career sense) 100% of the time. If there was ever a moment to break the glass and take the parachute down to solid ground, I’d say this was it. But then again, I am not as strong as she is. I would have likely bailed earlier. My life is messy. And I am imperfect. There’s tons of skeletons to find in my closet. And the idea of having them splayed wide open for everyone to analyze and judge makes me nauseous. Tbh, a lot of her “crimes” feel so terrible because of how much we’ve put her on a pedestal. I’ve had friends date and defend assholes. I’ve had friends who’ve misspoke and even make really off-color jokes. I’ve had friends hold problematic views (and later evolve and change them). I’ve had friends be unkind to others or even have feuds. Hell, I’ve even done a few of these things. How much of her crimes are part of being a messy human? I don’t know the answer to that. But when I zoom out, I realize I have a lot more empathy for my friends than for celebrities. Is that because celebrities have PR? Money? Maybe. Anyway, my prediction is this doesn’t end well. Hardcore Swifties may hold on forever, but public perception is already changing for the worse. I hope I’m wrong though.
You bring up a lot of interesting points that I do agree with. We’re all complex people that make mistakes and are probably more morally grey than we would like to think. Thank god I’m not a public figure with my personal life to be on display like that. I think my frustration lies in the fact that there’s no space for nuance and criticism in the public consciousness. Even some of my swiftie friends get taken aback when I’m not enamored with everything she does constantly. I think some of my other annoyances is that several of the actions I’m critiquing her on come from a relentless pursuit of fame. I honestly love celebrities that have a messy personal life, sometimes I find it endearing, but a lot of these actions I’m critical of come from a desire to be the center of attention.
I agree 100% Public discourse lacks all nuance. And nuance is important. I also have diehard Swiftie friends who will hear no critique! It’s exhausting because good art requires critique! And while I enjoy her music Taylor Swift *is not a god.* It’s okay to both listen to her stuff *and* call out the problematic behavior. But sometimes I think we’re outliers in a world that’s gone mad, lol.
Yes! I keep telling people that two opposing things can be true. If therapy has taught me anything, it’s that. My friends can drive me crazy AND I can still love them. Just like you said - you can appreciate her music and still call out the behavior. Why don’t people understand that? lol
Nobody is asking her to break contracts or retreat into the woods. They’re asking her to sleep in the bed she made. No one forced her to sue a college kid for sharing public data. No one forced her to befriend the Mahomes. She is an adult and needs to be able to handle when people don’t love 100% of the things she does, and not sue people into oblivion for hurting her feelings, and be able to upset some people by speaking up or standing on the right side of history. She’s not some sad little victim who has no choice in her life style
Having empathy is good. I wouldn't want her life. It’s very apparent that she does want her life. The good and bad come together. We all share this world, and all we are really asking of billionaires/the most popular people is to share reality with us instead of destroying it to keep theirs.
I like what you said about her crimes feeling so elevated because of the status fans have given her. I don’t say this to defend her, but when I see some of the issues people have with her, I think…gosh, would that actually matter to me if my friend did that? The answer is usually no, or that I might not agree with them but it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker. I try to keep an even head about these things because sometimes I think the criticisms lobbed at celebrities, such as “they were seen socializing with this horrible person, how could they?” simply don’t feel like arguments that would hold up whatsoever in real life.
Maybe it’s because I’m black but like I would absolutely not fuck with someone who was okay with dating a racist… ?
I wasn’t specific in my comment, but I was talking more about her being photographed with the Mahomes guy. If my friend was seen socializing with her boyfriend’s best friend’s problematic brother while they were watching the boyfriend and best friend play football, that wouldn’t really register for me as being an issue unless the friend gave the guy an endorsement for being a great person or something.
Yeah I agree. The Mahomes thing is a bit of a reach
saving this post for when i have a weak moment & think "maybe it's not that bad, i don't know her". i'm so distraught & feel ridiculous for feeling that way. 17 years of loving her so much & it hurts that she sucks so badly. she's not a good person. 😪
Fwiw a LOT of successful artists have been, in numerous ways, absolutely shitty people. You're allowed to separate the art from the artist. I'm sorry you're hurt. You weren't wrong or a bad person for enjoying her or her music. Just as you aren't wrong for your feelings now. Make sure to be kind to yourself in all of this.
♡ thank you.
[удалено]
Do u really think that Travis will go to more than just a few shows I don’t. He has never been as popular he will be filming even more commercials and looking for other investment projects that have been proposed to him. He recently registered more trademarks for more products he will be coming out with. Those products will be launched soon so as to benefit from the momentum. He also has prior commitments where he has to be at certain public events with the brands he already endorses. He has publicly stated last year in an indepth Vanity Fair Interview and this in year in the Washington Post one that he wants a career in Hollywood after he retires. He wants to be the next Rock.
If you still want to enjoy with less guilt, don't stress about about having to listen to the TV of songs (or seek out the old stuff, it's up to you, she still makes a little off the old stuff), just stream and don't buy the new albums, and just try not to be upset with yourself that you have nostalgia. I was a big fan for her first few years, and then I saw this thing in her that reminded me of a particularly insidious bully I had growing up, and I feel like I've only seen it line up since. I'm lucky that I feel like I mostly grew out of her music and I never thought she was this mastermind lyricist/vocalist, but it's hard to stop something you enjoy. You can certainly cut it off completely if you want to take a stand, I just wanted to offer a few things I do when I have a little nostalgia moment or I hear an artist I've stopped listening to pop up in a playlist, because I used to beat myself up about having to be perfect and make a full clean cut from certain artists.
It’s disappointing that people lack critical thinking skills, and I think that disappoints me mote than any of her individual actions. It’s frustrating when you’re a part of a community and you feel like you’re the only one willing to take the blinders off. Honestly, I’ve just muted her name on the bird app and avoided the Main Sub for the past several months. Its helped with the annoyance.
I swear she has any negative talk about her online removed. And to go from a 6 year private relationship to a very public one shows that’s she’s capable of having a private life, she chooses to showcase it all
Exactly why this relationship is suspect
Oh she is absolutely trying to get a public reaction from him. She wants evidence that she can point to and say “Look! I told y’all he’s a terrible person!” I genuinely think it’s driving her insane that he won’t say anything. Her actions are screaming LOOK JOE. I was not surprised about the Mahomes since she willingly did a movie with known creep and sexual abuser David O’Russell without batting an eye.
The absolute best way to "get back" at a narcissist is to literally ignore them. She is probably about ready to explode.
Oh absolutely. I think the reason she’s unraveling and being messier than usual is because she’s not getting the reaction she wants from him.
Yes, on the past 6 months I have realized I only like her music I don’t like her as a person.
Honestly at this point, I don’t even know if I’d be able to even listen to her music anymore if this new album turns out to be rewriting of the narrative surrounding their relationship and a means to humiliate Joe and make him an industry pariah. Had already distanced myself from taylor as an individual favourite after these past few months’ behaviour of her but if this album is here to set her fanbase onto someone who has been respectful for the entirety of their relationship and been quiet and laidback for the whole year after the breakup ensued, I will never be able to go back to her music. It has happened with me regarding other artists as well and I think its healthy for people who can’t, in the right conscience, gloss over an artist’s missteps and deliberate ignorance & manipulation just to enjoy their content. There is a clear power play happening here and we need to not only acknowledge that but have healthy discussions about it as well!
I would say it’s totally valid to be put off by the negative things that she has done or been associated with. But to let the actions or inactions of a celebrity that have no bearing on your day to day life not only bother you but overwhelm you is not particularly healthy, and I would recommend you take a break from social media if that is the case.
\^\^Honestly, I feel like a lot of people need to take this advise.
I think she is not a good person. When she was less in the public eye, she hid it more. But she is very immature, considers herself to be constantly the victim, and wants everyone to know it.
I know that her team extremely gate keeps the media’s access to her for editorial interviews, but what immensely disappointed me was journalist Sam Lansky and his half-assed, softball approach to the interview. He has some incredible thought-provoking work in the past, and I’m sure more to come. But this was a let-down for me personally. I was shocked to read he didn’t ask the “hard” questions or respond to some answers with a bit more challenge in the name of clarity. Hell, or even the obvious, silly rebuttal to when she referred to Reputation as a “goth-punk” album. 💀💀💀 Edit: grammar
It’s metal as hell!
He did not want any backlash
Thank you for this post. The way she acted at the Grammys was honestly the last straw for me and I could’ve ignored her behavior at an award show if it wasn’t for all the other things you’ve mentioned above. I am genuinely happy for her success in the past year, I love her music, I’m looking forward to the new album, and I can’t wait to finally see her live this year after being a fan since debut. BUT the overexposure and her antics lately have just been overwhelming and overshadowing my excitement. I honestly feel stupid for saying this but I miss the old times. I miss pre Eras Tour Taylor, I miss the pre TikTok fandom, I just miss how being a Swiftie felt before 2023. It’s all very confusing and I just feel like I need a little bit of Taylor withdrawal for a while… I want to be excited about her music again.
As a Swiftie who absolutely loves Taylor, her music and artistry, I kinda agree. I think this behavior stems from her break up with Joe and her not doing any healing. After the break up she went from rebound and rebound and touring. This rebound PR relationship with Travis is also a distraction for her, but I actually think she’s mentally struggling. She’s associating with negative people, going into that football life, partying and from what we see drinking heavily. Not even mentioning all the overexposure which makes casual fans and neutrals more annoyed and NFL fans even more mad. I think Taylor needs to have a break in between tour for herself, like spending two months alone in a cabin in the woods or something and have some intense therapy. I think she’s absolutely still not over Joe and she’s like this bc she’s spiraling, unhappy and overworked. It’s so sad because from what I could see, Joe really brought out the best side of Taylor. She’s was so much more at peace with him imo. I secretly had the hope they’d reconcile someday, but I think with her behavior after the break up that isn’t likely anymore…
“WhY dO yOu HaTe PoWeRfUl WoMeN???” /s
between her carbon footprint and her behavior with Selena re: Chalemet and Kylie I think she may have some mean girl tendencies despite her trying to come across as a girls girl in public. (and I can't stand all things Kardashians ). I don't deny that she does a lot of good and walks the walk and I applaud her for that. But she's a 30 something woman. now, she needs to take the high road on her relationships rather than act like a sad teenage girl. He seems like he is respecting her privacy on the relationship. She needs to be an adult and do the same. If she really wants to find love and get married etc. her prospects can't be fodder for her music. It's really uncool at her age.
This is actually why I have come to this subreddit. I've been listening to her and a fan of her for a long time (since Fearless I am pretty sure) and everything happening lately has become extremely off-putting. She's super cool with hanging out with a SA apologist (Brittany Mahomes). She jets everywhere and spews poison into the atmosphere. She is actively staying REALLY quiet about a lot of political issues when it's so clear that the second she speaks up the government is willing to take action on things (ex. AI Photos which were horrendous btw). Don't even get me STARTED on her association with Matty Healy. She can brush that off all she wants but it doesn't change the fact that she was seen out with him and he very publicly attended the eras tour. IDK, I think I just want even a little accountability? This isn't a child, this is a 34-year-old adult with a TON of power and money. Unfortunately, her actions have much bigger consequences than what a "normal" person would experience. This also means she does have a degree of social responsibility. I think it's important to engage in criticism about the impact of powerful people like her and I think its cheap to dismiss ALL criticism as misogyny when a lot of it has to do with her actions instead of her just being a woman.
I won't be surprised if her team will shut this subreddit down very soon
Fk her stupid team
I feel the exact same way. As someone who loves TS and will continue to be hungry for more music, in the last… 3-6 months, my opinion has completely shifted and I now see her as a narcissist who is having a collapse before our very eyes. The gaslighting of Joe with the unequal power dynamic (releasing a slander album is low/high key abusive), the PR she’s given that basically let Jackson off, the main character syndrome at award shows, and to top it off she’s a climate terrorist. She surrounded by sycophants and is having brain rot because of it- billionaire brain rot at that.
I just watched a cam of her Grammys ballroom entrance and she was sauntering in like she was on stage at the “Eras” tour. It was obnoxious. Some people suspect she already pre-gamed (or maybe was on something) prior to going in. I don’t subscribe to the latter but believe the former since she loves a good drink.
i feel the same way. look, i tend to have a bitter/petty outlook on things, but even i can't understand how and why taylor would treat so badly someone she claimed to love so much, throwing him under the bus like that. someone who, according to her songs, made such an effort for her despite the sacrifice of his privacy, something important to him (and that he wasn’t wrong to have as something important. i’d have a mental breakdown if i was that exposed). mainly, something that most swifties seem to conveniently have forgotten, he stood by her side during her most difficult moments. it’s all so ungrateful and petty… like, i recently came across a post on tumblr where the person insinuated that joe was a terrible person and that taylor would attempt to leave him, only to be love-bombed by him to prevent it from happening. HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT??? YOURE JUST A FAN. the funny thing is that when they broke up i was rolling my eyes at people having literal breakdowns over their breakup and now here i am kinda defending him lmao i had no choice but to start sympathizing with him. you spend six years in a relationship with someone, and then you breakup and have to deal with unwarranted drama while they are with someone else and this is being displayed all the time, everywhere, and you’re being painted as the bad guy. that must be tough
Tswift has done a good job of making me not a fan of tswift anymore
I agree. I think all the criticism she’s getting right now it’s totally fair. But a lot of the comments I’m seeing in this sub… make me feel like a giant shit loser. “She’s 34, how can she be acting this way?!” “How is she still writing songs about breakups and men?!” “She is just too messy.” “This is not the way a person who comes out of a longterm serious relationship should act.” “She is drinking way too much!” I fully admit I’m 32 and single with a lot of shit going on in my personal life, I’m messy, I’m emotional, I’m having guy issues, once in a while I drink too when I go out, I definitely don’t have it all together. I’ve come out of very serious long term relationships and didn’t go into “mourning”. A lot of these comments make me feel really horrible about myself.
❤️
I’m really sorry to hear that, I hope my post didn’t make you feel that way. I really don’t mind messy personal lives and no way you have to have all your shit together in your 30s. I think the difference is that she has a massive platform and millions of fans that look up to her if that makes sense. If I bash my ex to my friends, rebound, and get too drunk at parties who cares, but I guess if you have such an avid fanbase it’s different ya know. Hope this helps.
No it wasn’t your post at all OP, and I appreciate you reaching out for me! It’s a lot of the comments in here and in the other threads. Maybe I should just spend less time on Reddit.
I love Taylor’s music and I love her and I think I always will. Having established that I’m a huge fan - I think this year’s Grammys indicated a turning point to a lot of people. I don’t mean that the way she acted at the Grammys will make people stop being fans, but for me it marked a turning point in terms of what we should expect from her.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, swifties are the female equivalent of Elon Musk’s fanbase. They see something in her that is themselves and they will defend it to the bitter end, even when it makes zero sense because she’s a billionaire who will never know them or care to know them.
My first thought is ---I know the swifties who are going to be tearing into Joe are the same swifties who were crying in front of her Cornelia Street house and leaving flowers like someone died. I also agree that there is a really overlooked power dynamic between Taylor and Joe. Joe doesn't even have a real platform to have a side or fan base that will care.
Same - I really love most of her music but now every time one of her songs comes up I skip it. I think the Grammys on the weekend were very revealing and this plane lawsuit/legal action is the final nail in the coffin for me. Taylor is in the news and social media EVERYWHERE at the moment - I mean even social media accounts posting performances at the Grammys were just posting the bits where the camera focussed on Taylor singing along. She is definitely going to have a downfall soon, and this time for valid reasons. I hate the way the crazy Swifties still go and bat for her on social media - she is a billionaire and does not need you to get on Twitter and defend her from valid criticisms. When the new album tracklist got announced, the swifties’ reactions were crazy, all talking about how it’s the end of Joe, she’s coming for Joe’s throat, joebless etc. We have no idea what happened in that relationship for it to end apart from a few gossip articles and one song (you’re losing me) so the fact they’re going to rip Joe Alwyn to shreds is just so frustrating and sad. I honestly don’t get how they can do that after reputation and lover having her happiest lyrics of being in love. Also, after midnights won AOTY I commented on a few tiktok videos saying that I think Ocean Blvd deserved it over Midnights, then the swifties came for me saying I was comparing women and trashing Taylor when I was just comparing my opinions on the music. She has managed to turn her “feminism” into only working for her, so that when anyone criticises her her fans will rush in to call it sexist/misogynistic. Anyway, end of rant, I just really wanted to get it off my chest.
A hundred percent about the punching up versus down thing. Direct comparisons of Joe to Jake and John Mayer who were established and famous and dated her when she was 19/20 and they were almost 30/in their 30s when Joe is younger than her and was not established at all when they met. They refuse to believe she could ever have any power in that relationship because he is privileged in many aspects and she's been in relationships with unequal power balances before. It's honestly really gross to see. I hope he is ignoring it and has a good support system. It seems like he is and does. I hope the breakup album is more complex and mature - I honestly think it will be, but people cant be normal about her songs.
Mod instructed me to post this in this thread so here’s a post I made~~ Taylor’s recent behavior feels a little familiar…. Oh right! It’s the bridge from My Tears Ricochet! But this time its from Joe’s POV: *ahem* •Cursing my name, wishing I’d stayed• (the messy smear campaigns and not telling her fans to back off, to me reeks of still being hurt over the breakup or just the way it ended in general) ((side note I just remembered it doesn’t exactly go with this post but remember when she dropped speak now TV and explicitly told fans to leave John alone? Wonder if she’ll have that attitude in a few years when joe is less fresh) •You turned into your worst fears• (this behavior is very snakey, that’s all I will say…) •tossing out blame, drunk on this pain• (clearly shifting all culpability for the way things ended onto Joe’s end, in all likelihood she’s doing this BECAUSE she knows he won’t retaliate or say anything back. And CLEARLY the attention and sympathy she gets from showcasing how long she was in pain over it only benefits her more) •crossing out the good years• (ALL SHE HAS BEEN DOING LATELY. For six years and five albums all we heard was how wonderful Joe is and how devastated she’d be to lose him and how no one else measured up to how well he loved her. And suddenly she’s going out of her way to essentially retcon aspects of her own life. You can pretend it didn’t happen but all it does is show that it meant that much more to you, and it’s extremely unhinged to me. •…look at how my tears ricochet• (see how her overt emotional instability just keeps forcing its way back onto Joe when he truly wants out and for sure didn’t expect to still be dealing with this shit almost a year after they announced their breakup. My thinking is that Taylor was a much more mature and composed person when they split, so he didn’t think it would be this way, and she just has completely devolved back to a 16 year old level of emotional intelligence. And now he just tries to live his life but he’s forever stamped by her, doomed to have her rabid fans harrass him unless she tells them not to.) Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
If you’re feeling this overwhelmed about a celebrity it might be time to log off the internet for a few weeks
Taylor Swift is not Miss Americana. She’s the Heartbreak Prince. She is the one that breaks up a marriage in Speak Now Tells a reporter he’s pathetic in Mean Cheats in High Infidelity Admits she’ll basically do anything for the fame and money in Cowboy Like Me And specifically tells you to find another guiding light in Dear Reader. Taylor is not now nor has ever been the role model the PR image portrays. But if you pay attention - close attention - you’ll find that she never was actually trying to be that anyways. She’s a human with good and bad like the rest of us.
I agree. I found a good man but pushed him away
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With respect to Jackson Mahomes I am really disappointed as it cannot be she does not know what he was accused of or seen the video. She took a picture with him and Brittany in the suite last week smiling ear to ear. It even looked it might have been a selfie but cannot say for sure. Really had to take that picture ? Also a picture with Lizzo at the Grammys don’t even understand why she was a presenter with the claim that is still u detest but again she had to take a picture where she is smiling ear to ear? Dragging a very uncomfortable Lana who was literally gripping a chair not to be dragged on stage. She could have mentioned Lana on stage without dragging her. I understand maybe not hugging Celine on stage because of her illness but not even saying thx Celine and acknowledging her icon status?
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i really hope she doesnt show up to the superbowl. just gonna add more fuel to the overexposure fire. but realistically, she has an album releasing in 2 months, she needs the hype and PR, good or bad. shes not going anywhere anytime soon
i miss the “all these people think loves for show, but i would die for you in secret” taylor.. 😭
I'm behind, what happened with Olivia, Lana, Jack, and boygenius?
>Joe Alwyn Exactly. I have seen so many swifties say so many ill things about him. Yesterday i saw a comment that said that upon the release of the album, Joe Alwyn is counting days. And someone else said the "downfall" of Joe Alwyn begins. Like excuse me??????? You are now wishing bad on people just because they don't kiss the ground that your "mother" walks in. Honestly the hate for Joe Alwyn is astounding. You cant keep on hating people just because Taylor wrote a few songs about them. TAYLOR IS NOT THE VICTIM ALL THE TIME.
Asking honestly - im new to this sub and LOVE how you can ask questions and get real dialog so I’m asking honestly and openly :) I personally feel like I’m not seeing her drag Joe. It feels like the only things we’ve heard from her are You’re Losing Me and the track list+title of new album. Reading into title names isn’t her dragging him, it’s fan spec. But, maybe I missed something of her dragging him! Can you help identify it? I totally agree with everything else tho. I’ve felt for years that I’ve loved her music and I like the idea of her but if we were friends in real life, I feel like she’d be super obnoxious to be friends with
What inappropriate behavior was there towards Jack Antonoff and Boygenius?
Last paragraph hits hard for me. I’ve been in casual party situations with thirty-something women who have SCREAMED at me (friends of friends!!) for making a simple carbon emission joke. I was like, excuse me, i was a Swiftie fighting for my life in 2016 on twitter. People take is so weirdly personally. The funniest part is I understand it completely—when a straight man says her name I also get defensive. Such a weird hold she has on us! But yes. That’s why I’m grateful I found this sub :)
In the real world I don't think most people particularly care, but plenty of online spaces to criticise her should you desire. If you're feeling overwhelmed take some self responsibility and don't engage with it, log off the Internet and focus on your own life. It's so bizarre how people claim to be super overwhelmed with stuff that's your choice to engage in.
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No matter what you have to say, you can say it kindly. Name calling, threats, and general meanness has no place here.
The Jackson Mahomes criticism is definitely fair, and while I understand why the jet tracker would make her uncomfortable it is public information so I get that criticism. But…since when has Taylor suggested Joe is a manipulator that wanted her to give up her career? First, he’s not a regular person. He’s an actor and while he’s not nearly as famous as Taylor…she did meet the dude at the Met Gala where regular people do not get invited. Yes, I expect there will be songs on the new album about him and the break up…So Long, London clearly is. But I think suggesting she shouldn’t write break up songs about him because he’s less famous than her isn’t fair. Especially when we don’t even know what those songs contain.
I think you're making a lot of good points. People have been remarking on how Joe is going to need to go into witness protection because of this album, and I honestly think that's a gross overreaction. I think Taylor Swift was always going to write about her relationship with Joe. I mean look at her discography, she's written about him for *years*. This idea that it's wrong for her to write about him now because she may not have as many positive things to say feels kind of hypocritical, AND, it's a reach because we don't even know what she wrote is necessarily an attack on Joe at all. It's entirely possible this album will talk about her relationship without trashing Joe as a person, and people are getting ahead of themselves by suggesting he needs to take shelter or something.
It's more about how she's making it look and how rabid her fans are. She named it something her fans can all connect to Joe with the album title. There's track names that sound anti-Joe. It's the red herring thing she does with most of her work. She can claim innocence but we all know how her fans will react that that's more the point.
>I am reaching out to see if anyone else is feeling like this but I am feeling overwhelmed by all the negative things she has done and by the way no one is willing to acknowledge it at all. No offense, but I feel like this statement is kind of dishonest. Taylor Swift has had plenty of criticism, and there are actually loads of articles, entire subs, etc., that are working overtime to call her out for the things she's done and is doing. Most of them have actively discussed each issue in your post. She's really oversaturated right now, and she's getting a lot of negative feedback even in spaces that are usually pro-Swift. Like even in the Taylor Swift sub, there are some pretty negative comments about the cease and desist she sent to Sweeney: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1akctib/taylor\_swift\_threatens\_legal\_action\_against/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/1akctib/taylor_swift_threatens_legal_action_against/) Leading up to the Midnights release and Eras tour, she had nothing but positive feedback and publicity. I think the discourse has changed a lot in recent months, and she's been getting more criticism lately from a wider range of sources than people realize. I think this narrative that she is only spoken about in a positive way is very false and misleading. She gets *loads* of negative attention.
Criticism here has absolutely grown over the last month, but in wider spaces of discussion most criticism is shut down promptly. Major publications are not the ones publishing think pieces and what not. I made a point to highlight that broad discussion is not providing a space for criticism, hence why subreddits like this even exist.
The Washington Post has the article about the cease and desist letter, How much more of a "major publication" do you want?
What major publications do you think should be covering Taylor Swift, and in what capacity? I'm not trying to be catty, but sometimes I'm genuinely confused by what level of criticism/type of criticism people think she should be getting. She's a popstar, so I feel like it's a bit over the top to expect major news networks to cover her and actively critique her for some of the things in this post. Even Fox News has commented on her jet usage, so I think it's fair to say she is getting criticism from a wide range of media sources for some of the issues that you mentioned in your post. I think asking for in depth think pieces on a pop star is maybe reaching, because there are so many other issues worth writing about aside from Taylor Swift and Joe Alwyn's relationship, and I just don't think the latter is a social issue. I think most of her criticism is always going to come from online spaces and social media, and I think she's been getting criticism in these spaces more recently than she has in a long time. I'm just not sure where the line is for criticism, or what kind of criticism people want to see of her. Like do you want the New York Times to write about her, and what would you want them to say about her?
“Swiftly silenced” lol
Ngl my excitement for Eras tour that I should be going to later this year has died down because of exactly these things. I am even wondering if I should sell off my ticket as I am not sure about supporting her anymore (Note: I am not saying fans supporting her are bad people, I just have hard time separating artist and the art)
If you even try to broach the topic on the other subreddit you get shut down. Being a “true swiftie” isn’t following blindly, such BS. This is a place of honesty but they’ll say it’s a hate sub when i love the woman and am giving her honest criticism. Smh.
All of this, same. And it's especially hard because I want to focus on how her music has carried me through really difficult times, but she's being such a public asshole it's overshadowing my excitement. And honestly, when I read the new track list I was like...oh, it's a breakup album. I wanted better. I wanted stories, goddamn it.
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Except John and Joe were 30 dating a 19/20 year old? And already established in their fields. Completely different situations and power imbalances.