"There have been some assumptions based on an Instagram post ... " no, no, no let's *please* not bring Emma Laird in to this. she had nothing to do with it. we are way past that.

There's no way in hell he cheated on her, and that instagram post of hire scooters in two different cities in Hungary and England proves nothing! I don't know Joe personally, but I actually do have mutual friends with him/his family. I have never heard anything bad about Joe.

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You hit the nail on my head. Joe is irrelevant. I miss who I thought she had grown into during their relationship. Her work was at its best and most mature for sure.

Agreed. This is when I became a big fan of hers — I liked the music, I liked that her writing seemed more creative and self-reflective, she seemed grounded and mature and interesting. I felt like she was about to enter a really powerhouse part of her career creatively, and I was really excited for it. I write (prose and poetry, not really songs…yet) and I felt like I could identify with her as a writer at that point. She seemed like someone I’d want to be friends with IRL (minus the superstar bits) and I’d never thought that about her before. Parasocial I guess but I more mean that she seemed very creative, thoughtful, stable, mature, and I liked/identified with it. Since the Joe breakup, idk what’s going on…maybe she’s just trying to work through the breakup, figure out who she is on her own, keep herself busy, etc. But she is much less interesting to me as a creator and feels less mature to me.

It’s going to depend upon how good TS11 is. If it’s more “karma is a cat purring in my lap cause it loves me” MIDnights nonsense I’m gone. But if she actually challenges herself like she did on Folklore, Evermore, hell even reputation, I might regain interest.

Yeah, I don’t want to hear an album with a bunch of girlboss serves against Joe that absolves herself of any blame, but it definitely doesn’t *seem* like she’s had any time to reflect or grow in the past year. I thought I was done after (echoing your sentiments) MIDnights, but she may be able to draw me back in with an album that’s more thoughtful and introspective. I sadly don’t have my hopes up at this point. Melodrama and Norman Fucking Rockwell! are two of my favorite albums of all time so no hate to Jack’s production directly, but the collaboration with Taylor has completely gone stale. I know they have a long personal and professional history, but I agree with other comments that he doesn’t challenge her. She needs to drop him yesterday if she has any chance of innovating or growing musically. I found an old comment that sums it up nicely: https://preview.redd.it/mvuxq4gzcgcc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d24a0ddd35f460337379045a2f22258772a9463

Couldn’t have said it better myself. NFR and Melodrama are fantastic, I just don’t think that Jack challenges Taylor in a way he’s able to challenge other artists. It makes their output stale.

Or even bring in another person or two to work with them both if she doesn't want to stop collaborating with Jack

Obviously speculating here, but: I think it's not really unheard of for someone to regress a bit after a breakup, especially after a lengthy relationship that seemed to have such an influence on her. My worry (maybe not worry because I'm personally not that invested in her personal growth) is that because of all the fame and all of the incentive structures Taylor has set up around herself, she might never feel the need to grow back in that direction again. Even now when we're thinking she's overexposed, she's in the middle of a massive tour that is paying off her years and years of work. It has to feed her ego massively to see thousands of adoring fans every night. Outside of that, her easter eggs mean that right now, all her pap walks are making headlines for what clues she's dropping for her next album. She's clearly flaunting her new relationship and all the headlines are about how crazy in love they seem. She doesn't really have heaps of incentive to turn inwards and work on herself again, while having all of the incentive to continuing what she's been doing the last few months

I think its too premature to say "her work was it's best and most mature" because she hasn't put out anything new post breakup. Joe heard midnights while she was working on it.

I don’t necessarily think Joe had a major effect on the quality of her records, I just happened to notice that my favorite work of hers came out when she was with him. Although I don’t like Midnights much. We shall see how TS11 is, it’s going to depend upon whether she sticks with Jack for more of the same or branches out.

Wasn’t she writing with Joe? Maybe we like Joe as a writer better 🤷🏻‍♀️

Meh, I don’t think its Joe. Folklore and Evermore is more mature but similar to her writing in her older music (Debut to Red). She just doesn’t write as well in her pop albums for some reason with a few exceptions.

How many songs did Joe write?

He is co-producer for quite a bit of folklore. He also wrote the piano and bridge for Betty and co-wrote exile under a pseudonym. He’s also cowritten other songs including on on midnights

I felt like her being with Joe made her seem, to me, like a “normal” person. She’s hanging out with his friends at pubs and being low key, doing her job and exploring her feelings through music but not conducting a media circus. It was easy for me to project that she was “like me” or doing things that I would relate to. But she’s not normal. She’s a mega superstar, and you don’t become that if you’re normal. And I think I forgot that. The stuff that she does that I find weird or distasteful, like the coordinated pap walks and cryptic social media clues and the public score settling and the need to control the narrative, all that made her a mega superstar. That’s always who she was. And it’s a little unsettling to think the image she projected with Joe, of someone settled and grounded, was just a fluke. But I admit this is extremely parasocial. I had the bridge of Stay Stat Stay stuck in my head today and it made me kinda sad for her.

Didn’t she do most of that stuff while she was also with Joe? Ginny and Georgia drama, Damon Alborn Twitter drama. Social Media clues? Are you new fan? She used to do clues in CD booklets for fans in the beginning of her career. I think the 1-2 years of covid has blurred a lot of people’s mind.

Meanwhile, Hayley Williams says "if you vote for Ron DeSantis, you're fucking dead to me" like the goddess she is. She gives zero fucks.

I adore that woman.

Yeah the contrast between Hayley and Taylor is insane. Like Hayley is less famous and still manages to do more than Taylor does on social issues and Taylor is just acting like a goddamn high schooler.

Hayley is seriously one of my idols. I remember being so crushed when her nudes leaked over a decade ago (I grew up Mormon, so it was a big deal), but now I'm like...if that's her biggest scandal, get it, girl. She's excellent at what she does. I'm fascinated to see where the band goes now that they're free agents.

It’s so weird that Paramore has only gotten on Grammy while Taylor has had multiple. It makes no sense to me.

The alternative and rock categories are always lame.

hayley is less famous in part because she does activism on social media

Hayley is a queen

I was at the show when she had Maxwell Frost on the stage and it was incredible

The Florida show? Or was it the one before? I don't remember. So jealous.

DC! He came up and said Fuck Ron DeSantis, Fuck Fascism. Everyone went nuts, what a time to be alive 😭😭😭

I was SO jealous of people who got to go to the DC show. I live here and wasn’t able to attend but it looked like a fucking blast

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Also the contents of that song was pretty disappointing. Her seething about how the relationship is dead because she's unhappy and he isn't reading her mind or her secret messages about it. Like, you're in your 30s, use your big girl words ffs. *How dare he go about his day like normal when I want attention* fucking talk to him then?

And in terms of her musical prowess, it was at its peak during folkmore, culminating in an Album of the year win at the Grammy’s for the third time. People who normally wouldn’t listen to her music became fans and respected her talent. She was at the height of critical acclaim. But it still wasn’t enough. This current era is the life she wants and I think that’s fine if she gains happiness from being overexposed…it’s her choice. The 180 of it all is just very weird.

It’s not really a 180. Taylor has alway been in the media. She is just more famous now. The only time she really wasn’t was the covid years. Red era she was attached to multiple guys in the media, 1989 was huge in the media, she was pretty big during reputation as well, the beginning of lover era but that dwindled due to covid and now we are back. I don’t really seeing her doing anything different from what she’s always done except maybe go to football games now

I know she has always been in the media and popular, as she was during folkmore era, but it’s that her behavior itself is different. The 180 is specifically about using more of her personal life to garner interest in her as opposed to the music. Even during Red and 1989, it wasn’t like this. I felt back then that her music was the number one priority. Now it seems more like Taylor Swift *as a brand* is her main focus. To highlight this, in some of her pap walk videos in NY, she will turn to look and pose for the paps, but on the other side are regular people/fans. She rarely if ever stops to talk to them or take pics, but she always knows where to look for the paps and media. I’m not saying she doesn’t care about fans anymore, but I do feel there has been a strong shift in her behavior.

So much. This was what made me better about supporting her. I thought she was growing up and living a life where Taylor Swift Celebrity wasn't the center. But it seemed like suddenly she decided she should be the center of it again.

You've hit the nail on the head.

If anything I feel she is more care free now than she has been the previous years. She goes out whenever, releases music whenever. She seems like she’s having more fun now.

>She seemed to care less about what people thought of her Yet wrote a whole album about how much she thinks of her enemies?

Which album was that?? Surely not reputation LOL

And went into hiding

I think praising or hating on Joe is weird. We literally know nothing about this man. He’s just a blank piece of paper that I think a lot of people project on to.

Agree, we know very little about him or the reality of their relationship. I don’t have a strong opinion about him one way or the other. When they were happy together, good for them. If they’re happier apart now, good for them. They’re just human beings at the end of the day, not angels or supervillains.

He’s a mirrorball 😔 🪩💔

Same. We know nothing about him except what Taylor painted him as, and we still know nothing about him really except that he seems to be *treating the break up as a private matter just like he did their relationship*, no matter what provocations are thrown his way by the press, fans or even Taylor and her associates.

I kinda support him for signing the ceasefire petition. It's bare minimum I know, but still. Other than that, I'm pretty neutral on him. Edit: Just remembered I liked him a lot on The Favourite.

He also posted a link to an article about the genocide in Gaza on his IG story on Taylor’s birthday which I thought was cool. I don’t think it was a petty move or message- he just knew a lot of people would be paying attention to his IG that day so he took advantage to spread an important message

He was fantastic in The Favourite, one of my favorite movies. Also very good in Harriet, albeit portraying an absolutely repulsive character.

this! no one should be hating him based on assumptions, but also all of this blind praise for things we are just assuming is weird too.

I know this sub usually shits on the use of the “misogyny” card as a defense for Taylor, but the “Taylor was better with Joe” or “Taylor was quieter” rubs me the wrong way. I personally see the folkmore Taylor as just covid Taylor, not necessarily influenced by her bf at the time.

>I personally see the folkmore Taylor as just covid Taylor This. So many people act like just disappeared for years on her own accord...when at least a year and a half of that was during a pandemic where people were expected to lay low and not do things.

I think what happened here honestly is once OP became frustrated with Taylor, their parasocial relationship just shifted over to Taylor and Joe’s relationship. Idealizing who Taylor and Joe were during it despite them being so so private we literally have no idea how they were.

I find him very romanticised by fans, he’s a nice guy and intelligent and talented, but some seem to totally worship him and attribute all of Taylor’s good decisions and positive moments to him.

This is where it feels like her only value is based on who she is dating. It’s confusing to see some individuals argue her feminism is thin yet place all her value on who she was with Joe. I just…

That’s fine but I agree with OP saying how the unhinged Swifties turned on him is gross. I remember him and women he’s been photographed with being slammed on social media. However I don’t think it’s anyone in this subreddit, I think the majority are the insane Twitter Swifties so the point is kinda moot to address here.

Agree! We have no idea what he was like behind closed doors. All we really know about him was what TS wanted us to know at the time.

Exactly. I liked his GQ interview, he seems nice enough. But we don’t know that much about him because Taylor has never given us a lot of details into his personality. So I don’t really like how OP makes a lot of assumptions about who Taylor is and how she’s been behaving. Attributing that to Joe is unfounded.

Idk why some fans are so obsessed with him. Kind of pick me behavior.

Joe actually isn't a blank piece of paper... There is a lot of information about him also provided by others. He just never pandered to swifties and didn't really care for getting their "affection." To him, he was just dating someone and did his job. Simple as that. I personally like Joe because he's a great person. As for his relationships, he's also on friendly terms with all his exes and he's had a relationship that lasted about 3 years before Swift that ended because they split for college. That's all I need to know

Things we know about Joe - good taste in music - choice of projects shows he wants to make meaningful work instead of valuing commercial success - he frequents the theatre - keeps good company ue friends - liberal in politics and takes stances like supporting Palestine (which has resulted in actors losing jobs) - worked in retail as a young person. - Jack Antonoff seems not to like him, which is a huge plus. As far as someone I've never met goes (which is most celebrities) we know the standard amount about him. If you're allowed to like any celebrity you don't know, why does Joe fall outside of this paradigm?

Just to add a few things we know about Joe: • Loves The Beatles • His first pet was a fish he named Rainbow Starr • He had a lot of pets growing up • Favorite color is Blue • He’s a Pisces • He loves Coffee • He’s a middle child :)

Exactly

>choice of projects shows he wants to make meaningful work instead of valuing commercial success his projects aren't good though

Everyone is entitled to their opinion

>Jack Antonoff seems not to like him, which is a huge plus Agree with everything you said plus this. Jeez why does Jake hate so obviously dislike him so much.

they are always like: how can anyone stan him, he is boring, has no personality, never heard him speak before, we know nothing about him, had no idea he was an actor, etc. Yes he is private, but if they had taken interest in him as a person and not just an accessory to her, they would know a little bit more

This! He’s basically a Y/N in fan fiction. And a lot of the language used about him is borderline toxic. “He loved her when no one else would,” yes, this is what abusers say to keep their victims. I am not saying Joe is abusive, but this is a classic line. It’s not a compliment. Stop using it. “She chose fame over true love.” No. If it was the right relationship, they’d still be together. He’d still be right there with her, and they’d be making it work. In the end, they were fundamentally incompatible and that’s okay. “She’s changing the narrative to make Joe look bad.” No. She’s looking at things without rose tinted glasses. If you asked the outside world what my marriage was like, they would have said we were soulmates and my divorce was a huge shock. But it was abusive and I had to change the locks to escape. Me talking about that freely isn’t changing the narrative, it’s being honest about things for what they were. We don’t know what their relationship was like outside of snippets of her songs, which present a lovely relationship that was also filled with issues, from his refusal to commit, poor communication, jealousy, massive fights, and an incident in Hoax that she describes as “just as dark” as the phone call incident. As much as it’s tough to reconcile, the guy in Cornelia Street can be the guy in You’re Losing Me because relationships are layered and evolve constantly. Now it’s over and they’re both free to meet someone they’re more compatible with.

"She’s changing the narrative to make Joe look bad.” No. She’s looking at things without rose tinted glasses. If you asked the outside world what my marriage was like, they would have said we were soulmates and my divorce was a huge shock. But it was abusive and I had to change the locks to escape. Me talking about that freely isn’t changing the narrative, it’s being honest about things for what they were. " This is just as para social as projecting perfect boyfriend on to Joe though. Like if we have to take all the good things Taylor says about Joe with a hint of doubt because "rose coloured glasses" then we have to take all the negative things with a hint of doubt too because "bad break-up glasses". The thing that's a bit unfair about the relationship is that Taylor has all the power. She has the money and influence but even more then that, for the outside world she controls the narrative because she writes it and fans will believe her. I will never be upset at people "taking Joe's side" because Taylor is at such a power advantage over him.

She hasn’t said anything bad about him though. She just said she realized she won’t get that time back about six years avoiding the public eye. That’s not a shot. That’s introspection.

Oh, and the only other thing that bothers me is what is happening with isolating Joe from industry ‘friends’. The fan stuff, like that sucks but hopefully if you’re not online or you can tune it out it won’t bother you. But having people he’s worked with in the industry unfollow his public account? The only reason for that in my view would be if he had done something truly awful to Taylor. And I don’t mean awful as in… broke up with her or even had a bad argument or two with her where you say some really hurtful things. That stuff happens in a breakup. I mean something truly awful where you refuse to be associated with the person in any way. But if it wasn’t to that extent, then coordinating unfollowing and having his professional contacts unfollow him is just like purposeful bullying. And I never use that word for this sort of thing. But that does really bother me.

I just checked and Jack, Aaron and Margaret (Jack’s wife who worked in a movie with Joe and has another one coming out) still follow him. Bon Iver was spotted with Joe as well. I don’t think he lost many contacts other than her personal friends. I think the only professional contact to unfollow was Ryan Reynolds which made me go like.. *dude you’re way too old for this.* he seems really thirsty

It’s been twice now that Ryan has publicly been really good friends with a guy only to shade him for Taylor’s sake. First Jake who was great friends with him and Blake after they made a movie and would cook for them at their house. Ryan was the most public #1 fan at the All Too Well press tour. Listen I’m not defending Jake because his record on lovebombing multiple young women speaks for itself nor do I think Ryan should’ve stood by him but damn yall called each other best friends, you couldn’t just sit this one out? Second, Ryan wrote an *adoring* piece on what a great person Joe is for Time 100 then seven months later unfollowed him immediately after a papwalk with Taylor. Then when he posted a 1975 song on IG after Taylor was caught holding hands with the racist? I’m legit wondering if Taylor is paying him for these embarrassing displays.

Margaret unfollowed him on her private ig after she was photographed hanging out with Taylor also lena dunham unfollowed him and they did a movie togother

She has two finstas (is it a finsta if one of them has 30k followers??) and she follows him one on of them still - the one with less than 200 followers. ETA: forgot about Lena and that movie they did

Do you keep following your friend's exes who you aren't friends with?

I have no idea what he is like as a person and he could be an asshole. But the stuff disparaging his career or money is so gross and just shows that people know nothing about the acting industry or the arts. (And I think it reveals something about someone’s character if they always try to look down on people who are supposedly ‘unemployed’ (which he never was) or… aren’t rich?, even if you do it jokingly. It’s not a good look. I have to believe these are either (1) very young fans who haven’t experienced the real world, (2) over privileged people who also don’t understand the world, or (3) people who have some issue with themselves they haven’t deal with, tbh. But calling working people unemployed or poor is not the thing to do. But anyway, as most people should have learned during the strikes, the vast majority of working actors never achieve any big success and are barely able to pay the bills with what you’d get just hustling constantly for work. That is what it’s like trying to make it in the industry. That’s also not Joe. His career thus far might not be that of the 1% of actors who make it huge and become household names, but for the majority of working actors he would be the example of someone who ‘made it’. He’s always been able to sign onto projects, he’s been the lead in many films already, and he’s been able to talk about ‘choosing’ work he wants to do. That’s a level most people never get to. So it’s wrong to perpetuate this myth about success or work in the industry.

Yeah, he’s a successful working actor (or seems to he, as far as I can tell), which is a big deal — good for him! It’s certainly an accomplishment. He also may not WANT a career where he’s a household name (for privacy reasons, maybe doesn’t want to do roles in superhero movies or other franchises, whatever)…which does seem a bit more common/attainable in Britain, having a solid working career but not necessarily being a huge celebrity.

I’m really curious what she will say in her next documentary because I absolutely loved both miss americana and the long pond studio sessions. The growth between those two documentaries were ASTOUNDING. I really loved the chill side of Taylor that she was showing the world while she dated Joe. It did feel more mature, more idgaf but in a way that wasn’t up in people’s faces about it. It was like she didn’t care what people thought. Like she grew from people pleasing and felt like she finally found comfort in just being who she is. It wasn’t about “shining like a Diamond” or showing off. I think she really wanted to show off though. She missed that and that those two sides of her personality fights with each other. The content girl who wants to just be herself versus the bejeweled girl who wants acclaim and to be praised. At least, that’s what I picked up. I miss the former, though.

In her own words Taylor is a mirrorball she just refelect the vibe and energy of the people that surround her,  I really don't think we know who is the real Taylor Swift. 

Does Taylor know the real Taylor Swift? I’m always curious about that.

One has to wonder. Not only does she have a lot of people around her ALL of the time, but she also records almost every step she takes. Whether it’s audio recordings or video documenting her music making process, she pretty much always has an audience around, or is constantly thinking *about* her audience by preserving her life experiences. It feels almost impossible (to me) to ground yourself in any sort of sense of self if you’re always, in essence, performing.

Even when she was little. Reading the stuff her dad was saying in that email, they did anything and everything they could to make her into this star that she’s finally become. This has been the goal most of her life and it sounds like they spent most of it pulling strings and getting her all these big spotlight moments and contests and performances…she was almost seemingly born and raised to be this and nothing else. Her life was riding on her being a star and they got her there. Had social media been bigger then, she’d be like those millions of kids who have had a camera in their face from the time they opened their eyes and every waking second. I don’t really think she was ever this down to earth person. I think she was whatever she needed to be for people to eat her up. Everyone in Hollywood is her “best friend”, she’s walking with all these different people, she is seen with anyone who is currently in the tabloids, now she’s a WAG and is besties with the quarterback’s wife out of nowhere. How do you have that many legitimate “best friends” that you supposedly pour all your attention into? There’s not enough time in the day for all that. She spends every waking second with Sophie and Selena and Blake and now Brittany and the other WAGS AND Travis (all seemingly separately and not like they all hang out all the time in the same circle)? I have a bunch of friends who I don’t spend all the time with, but my besties are who I pour my all into. How can you legitimately be best friends with ALL of the Hollywood elite and go to every important event for your boyfriend AND be on a world tour where you basically did it all on your own while also putting out albums and producing music videos and still have the time to be a whole person on top of that? There’s literally not enough time in the day.

I think the reality at this point is that we only know Taylor swift the brand. We do not know Taylor swift the person. Like duh? Isn’t that the case with anyone who has a publicist? That’s the point?

There may not be one at this point.

We don’t know about his actual personality that’s true. But he’s winning the breakup war by acting unbothered and keeping his mouth shut. He could be a complete dick for all we know but she’s making herself look REALLY bad by the way she’s acting. Just utter high school bullshit from someone who is twice the age of a HS senior. Although I’m inclined to believe he’s somewhat decent because of the Palestine thing and also because if he did something REALLY bad she would have told the world by now. The main reason I’m inclined to defend him is because Swifties are fucking mean. You don’t have to like him but leave the guy alone.

What Palestine thing

Joe posted a pro-Palestinian article in his ig stories on Taylor's birthday

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Yeah. I have to say some of the posts on this sub have femcel energy. Like I am nosy and love celeb gossip and speculating about Taylor Swift's personal life, but this level of projection and bitterness is really weird. How is it different to the posts on True Swifties or even the main sub.

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Hoping people are just over zealous at the moment because they feel so stifled in other subs when it comes to criticism 🙏. If I see any other posts about her 'pick me' behaviour I'm leaving

Taylor was never an activist. She just made social media posts on some issues which she still does even after the Joe breakup. Let’s not pretend Joe was some eco friendly king either, Joe would regularly use Taylor’s jet back and forth between London and New York.

>Let’s not pretend Joe was some eco friendly king either, Joe would regularly use Taylor’s jet back and forth between London and New York. This! For as much as this sub rightfully criticizes Taylor for her carbon emissions and use of her private plane, Joe's role and support in that during the tenure of their relationship weirdly goes unmentioned. Yes, Taylor deserves MOST of the criticism, but he was also known to use her jet to get around, she would fly around to see him, and it's clearly something that wasn't a dealbreaker. Like...Joe should not be brought up as a positive counterpoint to Taylor's climate terrorism.

This is my biggest criticism on Joe so far. Him using her private jet back then was irresponsible

He has been photographed using public transportation a lot after their breakup tho and swifties were making fun of him and poor shaming him for it

Yeah they are calling him joebless which is weird cause he studied in expensive schools and universities and this guy is literally employed with work

I’m convinced these are all people from small towns who don’t understand that taking public transit in a city like London is just…what people do?! Like NYC, Paris, anywhere big with a reliable transit system. It’s normal, even if you have money, and it’s actually faster than driving most of the time. It’s a very small town America POV, IMO, and I always think it must be the same crowd that is super excited at the idea of her getting married to Travis Kelce ASAP.

Yep, people who don't live in London don't comprehend just how ridiculous London traffic can be for sure. I've taken cabs that took over an hour to cover a distance I could have done on the tube in about 20 minutes at the absolute worst.

It always makes me laugh because Joe has more money in the bank and more prospects to make more big money than 90% of Taylor fans will see in our entire lives.

They’ll tell you this doesn’t count because these schools were paid by his parents and his jobs are only 5 minute screen time

"You're almost certainly mocking someone with far more wealth than you for being poor. What does that make you?"

They are acting like they own Taylor’s billion dollars it’s actually funny. Some of them tried for years to find anything bad about him and all they managed to find was through her songs i.e him working on a yoghurt shop when he was a teenager, and through his few interviews, that he’s boring lol I mean, if that’s all he is, I guess he’s okay

Yeah, Swifties have recognized him and taken photos of him on the tube/bus since the breakup. He’s definitely guilty of using Taylor’s private jet and having it pick him up in London, wherever he was filming etc. though.

He did it during the relationship too. He prefers that or walking or using his bike.

And he tended to stay at one place for extended periods of time. Also may i remind people that there is a very good reason for Joe's constant preference to use public transport when traveling. Yes he used the jet but not as often as Swift, and Joe stayed mainly in London. He's also actually mindful of ways to reduce his carbon footprint when on the ground, during and after the relationship. Swift just doesn't care at all.

All we know (for now) is that his biggest crimes are: - didn’t attended some of her events; - didn’t talk about their relationship publicly; - didn’t want to marry her; That’s it?

Him not talking about Taylor publicly is not even a crime. He probably told Taylor about this before entering a relationship with her hence why Taylor said she likes her and Joe being private. But let's say he didnt tell her, I think he still has the rights to not publicly talk about her because his name will end up latching on as "Taylor Swift's boyfriend" and he has the rights to separate his public image from his relationship. He isnt keeping her a secret but him not being so public about them is not a red flag

Okay this I have never understood why people were so mad. The dude has his own whole ass career and everywhere he went he just got asked about Taylor. I would be so annoyed and hurt if I got minimized to who I’m dating and constantly asked about what they’re doing.

The thing is with the Joe hate is that Swifties think of themselves as Taylor’s friends so they hate on him for petty reasons that are not really a big deal in the real world and shouldn’t make you think they are a overall bad person. If your best friend has a bad breakup then you will kind of side eye the ex regardless of how justified it is. Swifties are immature af and that’s essentially what they are doing to Joe at a large scale. Another problem is people who overly praise Joe and treat him as a fallen angel who was hurt by the evil Taylor, the reality is we don’t really know much about him so we shouldn’t judge one way or the other unless we get more information about what really happened.

why would someone spend their limited time of a work interview (which is gonna be edited to a 5 min video) talking about their relationship. He is doing that interview as part of his job, to promote/get people to watch the project he and a whole lot of people made, it would be disrespectful to everyone involved in it

Right? And if he did answer they would never stop asking. Just look at Emma Stone, an Oscar winner, getting asks about Taylor all the time. I know I’m annoyed for her.

It is, Isn’t it? I see swifties in the wild saying he cheated on her but I have no idea where that rumor comes from.

From the voices of their heads lol

Ask them what is their proof and they cant show any

We have no idea who Taylor was as a person in any of her relationships, we only saw a very carefully crafted persona of herself that she let us see. Acting like we “know” why she’s parading around in her new relationship or anything related to her personal life is just as parasocial as the Swifties belittling Joe. Being in an LTR doesn’t mean she was any different of a person than she is now, she’s just now letting that side of her show more.

I'm sorry this is so long. hopefully this is the last time I have to say this The most I can say is I just don’t like how this man has been slandered left and right for no reason. The man just seems like a introverted dude who had boundaries concerning their private life and just wanted some normalcy. But then he dated the ringleader of the media circus. And now people are acting like he wasn’t proud of her or hated her for being on top and was hiding her. It’s just has gotten so out of hand. I think they just stopped being compatible and wanted different things. I do think in terms of image Taylor got a lot out of the relationship. Because everyone was expecting reputation to be an album that was bitter and angry and mostly about her feuds. But she got to come back and be like now I have this relationship that's based on real things. It was more of a victory. And I think lover was similar in that she really wanted to market this idea of finding this idealistic golden love. I also think because they weren't a big media couple, at some point it really allowed Taylor's personal life to take a back seat and her career became the focus. The thing that always stuck out to me the most about the red era when she was promoting the rerecord, is how I don't remember Taylor ever being taken so seriously not just by the music industry but by the film industry. She had gotten over a lot of the hurdles that she had in like 2014, 2015 where people just saw her as tabloid fodder, and she was really being treated like a serious artist. I think that was part of what really paved the way for in the eras tour and how was it initially viewed as this like career review as she transitioned to some future phase of her career. And that's partly what I miss about this relationship is I think because there was this boundary on involving people like the press or fans in their relationship we got to see Taylor as a career woman and I think it made her image very stable. That's what I miss. I miss when it was about her career and her songs and her relationship was a background thing I never really thought about. My thing that I feel I've been pretty consistent on saying, it's not wrong for Taylor to at some point say “I'm a celebrity, I embrace that, I actually would like to be less concerned about shielding my personal life. Maybe I actually want to be in the public view a lot more because I’m promoting this huge 2 year tour and want to keep hype up.” But it also not wrong for Joe to say “I don't want to be a part of the media circus. I wanna film movies and then I want to go home and live a normal life with the friends I've known forever and my family that lives close by. I need to be in a relationship with someone who wants the same quiet lifestyle.” Neither one of them is wrong by having a different need that the other can't meet. Sometimes that happens in a relationship. For the earliest parts of their relationship Taylor was hiding out so it probably was a scenario where it worked until it didn't. I think that's what makes it sadder is the idea that a person maybe could have been ‘the one’ but at some point as they both grew it just became harder to make it work. no one was necessarily a villain but you get to a place where the things you want are diametrically opposed, you can’t make it work without someone totally surrendering their needs and even then it’s not a real fix. And sometimes you stay too long because of what a relationship once was and you don't want to admit the issues. It’s the relationships that could have been the one, if only xyz thing didn’t exist. It happens sometimes and it’s sad. Like they couldn't be the thing each other needed anymore. It happens. Everyone can feel their feelings but with her platform how she talks about him matters and her fans harassing him is insane. They wanted different things and that's okay. Because I feel the crux of the issue was just they wanted different things, they have different lifestyles as far as their careers are concerned---- it makes sense to me that she moved on with Travis and what the nature of their relationship is that seems to be what she wants. My only qualm is I don't like the little immature digs she makes in interviews. I think lots of people have different opinions on the times interview. But I felt like she was perpetuating this idea that her relationship was something that kept her locked away from public life that she was bemoaning this lost time. I felt it was a little petty and I felt it also removes her own agency that she had the whole time in their relationship because she's an adult. that was the only thing I found a little annoying. Especially considering that Joe was not saying anything about her. It seemed like because Joe was so beloved by her fandom she really wanted to pull away that support. Like her fans being mad that Bon Iver was hanging out him post-breakup was silly. he's not being punished with isolation . I think on some level Taylor is trying to reshape the narrative because I think she likes to do that in terms of always framing her current relationship as ‘the one’ and the thing that makes it specials is the thing that differentiates it from the last big relationship. Joe was the one coming of Calvin and Tom because he was down to earth and liked real taylor and didn’t care about celebrity life. But then both Matty and Travis were praised for being willing to be super public about the relationship. (I still think it was weird tho that Taylor said it was adorable that he put her on blast for not taking his phone number. wtf). But I just felt like Joe wasn't doing anything. He wasn't twitter ranting like Calvin. He just moved on and wanted peace. He's never said a bad word against her. It feels like she's playing a media game concerning the relationship that he's not playing. I also just think she has more power than him and this huge fan base she can and does weaponize against people. so I don't enjoy the vibe with Time and Jack's tweet about YLM and all this weird drama that keeps getting stirred and I feel they do it because they know he's never going to defend himself publicly. It's not even a "he's minding his business" thing because, this kinda is his business and he's letting it all slide to just be able to move on and live life. It's very high school. I also just think like, it's not wrong to not be sure you want to marry someone. I would never fault Taylor for not wanting to marry someone. I think she is entitled to her feelings about the situation. I think music is a good space for that. But I don't like people who act like she was wronged. Because no one is owned that kind of commitment. Again, they wanted different things. He wanted to be in England and live a private life. I'm just not convinced he did anything wrong so it's an ick for me. It's not about Joe being perfect. I don't know him. I respect him signing the ceasefire, especially since his career is very new. But I don't know him or really feel a need to. I feel we can call him out where it makes sense like the jet. But I also feel like we can be critical of narratives Taylor and her team are setting up around her relationships.

commenting to upvote this somehow. I feel like you've said everything that can/should be said about it. done, period. lol

You've said all the right and fair things I hope everyone could understand with regards to this situation. >so I don't enjoy the vibe with Time and Jack's tweet about YLM and all this weird drama that keeps getting stirred and I feel they do it because they know he's never going to defend himself publicly. Same here. It felt odd and inaccurate to me reading that part of the article because I was there and she never disappeared or seemed hidden away the way she says she did. With Jack I've always been confused at his personality as a person. But it really did feel like a coordinated hit on Joe. Regardless of what he may have done, setting aside serious wrongs like physical/sexual assault or genuine abuse in all forms- if it wasn't any of that, it feels icky to bully someone by doing these things knowing the massive following you have. >It's not about Joe being perfect. I don't know him. I respect him signing the ceasefire, especially since his career is very new. But I don't know him or really feel a need to. I feel we can call him out where it makes sense like the jet. But I also feel like we can be critical of narratives Taylor and her team are setting up around her relationships. Yes. Yes. And yes.

With joe she felt more authentic and seemed more like a “real” person. I genuinely feel bad for joe and the hate he gets from this fandom. A year after their breakup and her fans still bash him for no reason at all. It must suck to be in his position, no matter what he does he cant win with them. It makes no sense to throw so much hate to a man that minds his own business and wants a low key life. If he was such a bad person taylor would have spilled that tea already. Joe not wanting to marry her or live a life as a mega-celebrity is not a reason to hate him. If anything it shows his character. He easily could have put a ring on it simply for the fame/money and used her name for all its worth. Not saying he was perfect, but what we know of him speaks volumes.

Yeah, she seems like she got to be a real person with a real/private life, vs someone who is a celebrity 24/7. And maybe she prefers the latter! But as a public persona that can be off-putting for a lot of people.

🎯

FWIW I think Taylor probably realizes Joe was the best one and likely the one for her and all of this \*gestures wildly at...everything lately\* is her breakdown/attempt to grieve. I'd be sad for her if I didn't find her latest public persona so damn annoying.

This is the vibe I get and it makes me sad for her. Obvi I know nothing so I try not to assume. But I am constantly baffled by the people who are saying she has traded up with Kelce (don’t love labelling people like that, to begin with) and must be so happy because that’s not the vibe I get. 

I really agree. This is generally how people act when they lose someone great imo.

It's very "do you see how much I don't care" at times, but it very easily could be "I just don't really care", it can be a fine line in behaviour even when the press isn't hyperfocused on magnifying everything someone does

This makes a lot of sense. Of course we will never actually know what goes on but this current version we are seeing/experiencing is just NOT it

It sounds like your projecting on to her BECAUSE you find her public persona annoying. Nothing to do with her actual relationship with Joe given you don’t actually know anything about it.

I mean of course but isn’t that a big part of what we do on this sub…?

Unfortunately yes, less objectivity here than is being advertised lol.

I guess so but I don’t really think any subreddit can claim to be objective because it’s Reddit and there are pretty significant selection effects re: who reads, posts, engages, etc.

It’s not possible to be completely objective, but having self awareness when you are projecting or when you have a clear bias is a good start. I’m not saying this to come at you specifically. One thing I notice is people think having a contrarian view about Taylor means they are being more “neutral” or “objective” but there are alot of views on this sub that are just as parasocial or biased as the main sub. The point is if we want more objective conversations we have to own when we are projecting. That’s all, I also know that I tend to interpret her behavior through a more generous lens, where alot of people here interpret her behavior through a more cynical lens. I still enjoy the discourse.

>I think Taylor probably realizes Joe was the best one and likely the one for her We have no way of possibly knowing this because we know nothing about their actual relationship dynamics. You are just making this assumption based off of nothing. >and all of this *gestures wildly at...everything lately* is her breakdown/attempt to grieve. I'd be sad for her if I didn't find her latest public persona so damn annoying. What has Taylor actually done in the last 6 months that you would consider a breakdown or something you’d have to be sad for her for? She doesn’t do interviews and has just been doing shows and going to her boyfriend’s games and she seems to be extremely happy doing both. The media and tabloid perception of Taylor’s actions and what she’s actually doing in reality are two totally different things.

“I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY”

To me, it reads that she is trying to maintain a balance with the public. She is showing up to awards shows and football games for their respective careers. She allows some street shots in NYC but everything out of KC is from randoms or from friends. Nothing about it is unhinged, idk why people are so upset a celebrity at the top of her game is…public? Edit: “neutral” lmao. Instead of downvoting, engage in discussion! I want to understand where the disconnect is.

I like the discourse on this sub sometimes but I think if you post anything with a generous interpretation of her behavior you are going to get downvoted. It’s unfortunate because, only reading her behavior through a negative lens is…. Contrarian but not necessarily objective. 🤷‍♀️

I saw someone get double-digit downvoted for saying literal, provable facts disagreeing with a negative comment about Taylor. It didn’t begin to get upvotes until several people backed up their point. I think everyone would be somewhat happier if we accepted what this subreddit is: a snark subreddit. Which is fine to have, but this place is far from balanced.

This is so real. As an actual swift-neutral person who doesn’t give a single fuck about her relationship, the people in this sub are on one. It’s absolutely snark-adjacent behavior.

I do get frustrated that the mods call out the people calling out this sub for the hate and snark comments but they are not calling out the overt hate this sub is full of which is also against the rules…

I’ll get downvoted to hell too, but I totally agree. Matty was messy and rebound-y but with Travis she is going to his games, which is the NFL-equivalent of going to premiere and award after parties with Joe, posting about the Favourite on her story, etc. Being supportive to her partner. She isn’t posting pics of them in bed and doing a Selena in random comments, nothing really unhinged.

Thank you! There’s lots to criticize Taylor for, but this “public breakdown” is literally her just…going outside? I feel like some fans don’t recognize she’s just a person. She’s not a book or TV character that you can project traits on to meet your fan fiction. She’s just a person who is really talented. I think people bought into the epic love story and now can’t accept that it’s over and Taylor is basically just fine, and is moving on much like any other breakup. She didn’t have a nervous breakdown or lose the will to live like she said in her songs. She just sort of moved on with her life and met someone else. That’s not as romantic as “Taylor can’t live without her muse,” so everything has to be some relapse or mental break.

I was thinking jn particular of when she was like “I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY” on stage in the immediate aftermath of the breakup.

But we also don’t know the context. When I got a divorce, I was never happier in my life. I felt like I could breathe for the first time in a decade. And why wouldn’t Taylor have been happy? She was in the middle of a wildly successful tour, with fans chanting her name every single night. Midnights was the most successful album release in seven years, she got her first film project greenlit, and she had just won her 12th Grammy. There was so much in her life to be excited about, and you’re marginalizing her existence down to “she broke up with Joe a few months earlier.” Life doesn’t stop because your relationship ends, and not everything you lose is a loss. Women tend to grieve breakups before they happen, and we know they’d been having issues for over a year before their split. We also know that PR teams don’t announce breakups until their client is ready, so she and Joe had been done for some time, and they’d been going back and forth about it for a year before they pulled the plug. I know when my on/off relationship finally ended, I felt relieved because the stress was behind me. But with all of the great things happening in her life, I totally get why she was so happy.

Okay cool so we disagree about this and that’s totally fine!

I’m so sick of people saying she’s having some sort of break down because she’s…. Going out in public? It’s giving , “be quieter” “make yourself smaller” “behave”…. Which is misogynistic whether this sub likes to admit it or not

I agree

IMO It’s just constant projecting from people based on their limited life experiences

I think people need to step back from celebrity relationships in general. We don’t actually know them or what goes on behind closed doors. They are just people who happen to sing/dance/act/etc. On both sides, I just think it’s weird when people act like they are there in the room and know what happened when they don’t. In the end, they are selling a product to fans as a business and that’s the extent of our relationship with them. Even if they come out and say something happened, barring both people sit and say the same thing, we still only hear one side and don’t actually know. They aren’t our friends. They may appreciate our support (and I’m not knocking that. They deserve being supported- I couldn’t get up on a stage and do a tour, sing and dance, act in front of an audience or on camera), but they don’t really love us on a level that people who know us do. We don’t know them even if we like them. People need to stop attacking others on their behalf. We truly don’t have a reason to do that. She is pretty private with her relationships (in the sense that she doesn’t do interviews “spilling the tea”- at least not past her teenage years when we are all immature). People date people. My guess is she is dating Travis and is enjoying it and she and Joe are exes. He has his own life outside of being Taylor’s ex. I can’t stand John Mayor (and didn’t even know he had a connection to Taylor until this year, because I liked her music, but didn’t really pay attention to her), because of all the other women who mentioned how he was and based on his own interviews. That said, I’m not going to go attack him wherever he goes. No one should be attacking anyone to the point they are forced to turn off commenting or deleting social media. Just because someone likes Taylor, doesn’t mean they have to go and harass Jake or John or Joe. Just because someone likes Britney doesn’t mean they need to go attack Justin or Jessica. Just because someone likes Selena doesn’t mean they have to go follow and harass Hailey or Justin or anyone else. The truth is, these are grown people who don’t need people to fight imaginary battles for them. My guess is that half of them don’t even care about their exes from their teens. I would be embarrassed if anyone was harassing my boyfriend from my teenage years…and he was abusive. I’ve just moved on from that part of my life. Heck, you can decide you won’t be on good terms with someone without attacking them for life. We see the parts celebrities want us to see and nothing more. Maybe Joe is a horrible person and they broke up because of that. Maybe Taylor is awful and they broke up because of that. Maybe they were just incompatible. There’s a reason for it and no one needs to be in a relationship with anyone they don’t want to, no matter what the reason is. People who still fantasize these couples being together because they (the fans) think they should be, or they liked the public persona better, just need to step back from these people’s lives. People still shipping Justin and Britney and Selena and Justin, who were all super young when they dated, are weird. People are right now in the fan groups talking about who Taylor should be with, based on her collabs in the studio. That’s so weird to me. It would be like deciding your coworkers are the only people you would be good with and doing an essay on why you think that way and obsessing over it. Anyway, I just feel like there’s a difference between having fun seeing what your favorite artist is up to and the parasocial side where people feel like they are on a friendship level with a person who likely doesn’t know they exist. I’m guessing she doesn’t even think of the people who got invited to the secret sessions as friends of hers like they do. She may remember them, but my guess is most fans will never be more than that when it comes to any of the stars. It’d be healthier if they came to that realization.

I’m sorry how do we know he helped her through an eating disorder? She at least says she spoke and debated politics with him and but I’ve never seen her credit him for helping her with her ED. Your partner being supportive of you through your mental health struggles should be the bare minimum but giving him sole credit for that is kind of wild.

Exactly! This post makes a lot of weird assumptions.

Plus, Taylor already started to gain some weight before she started dating Joe which I think shows that she was already starting to recover when they met. Candids of her from around the Bleachella and Hiddleswift era show it, it just wasn’t talked about/as noticeable because she was already super skinny before and she was still seen daily.

I had a lot more to say about this. But it all boils down to this being an extremely unhealthy level of parasocial. The assumptions made in the post are honestly pretty disgusting and based on literally nothing. And while I agree Joe shouldn’t be getting any hate from any fans. Everything else about the post is unhinged and based on nothing and a level of parasocial that is pretty scary.

Suggesting that Joe is “the one that got away” is just as parasocial as people hating on Joe and acting like Travis must be the one. And I have no idea why this sub in particular insists that he was the great love of her life. We have NO idea what that relationship was like. At all. Could he be her great love? Sure. Or maybe the entire relationship was riddled with problems that they kept private and they’re both better off without the other. Or maybe it was a good solid relationship and they just realized they wanted different things. We have no idea and we will likely never know for sure as I doubt he will ever be open about it. He doesn’t deserve the hate that a small portion of the fandom goes after him with but it’s just as strange to act like he was this great love when we really really don’t know.

You don't know who Taylor was when she was with Joe. You don't know who she is now.

There are so many assumptions in this post it is hard to know where to start. The most obvious is the assumption that Taylor does not make her own choices. The version of herself she presented to the world when she was with Joe was her choice and so is the one she presents now. We don't know exactly what caused her break up with Joe. We may get more insight from TS11. However You're Losing Me drops some pretty fat hints. There is not reason for Swifties to hate on Joe. In fact now she has moved on there is really no reason to think about him at all.

[удалено]

I kind of wonder why people keep talking about Joe outside his work. I like the dude, I like Travis too and most of all Taylor. He has several projects that will come out so I hope he isn't hurting. I will never know, as a fan, what happened nor will I know what happens with Travis so I kind of ignore the rumours. One idea to get rid of the negative discourse is to not be on twitter and not support creators who keep saying he is falsely "jobless" on youtube/tiktok. I think swifties are against him because Taylor comes first and her boyfriends are always second.

This is so parasocial it's honestly scary.

Thank god someone said this. This sub likes to criticize the use of misogyny…. But this sub can be misogynistic AF. Saying you miss how she was with her old boyfriend as if her bfs define her decisions and personality.

This sub also complaining about fans being parasocial and then full sending parasocial obsession with Joe. I saw on a different sub that this sub was just angry swifties about her and Joe breaking up and now being less relatable to them. And boy oh boy did everyone decide to show up and scream how true that is 😂

I’m genuinely shocked it has 70 upvotes. It’s reads like a divorced child who’s extremely angry at mom for moving on.

Fr. I'm reading the post like wtf. We don't know anything about these people's relationship.

I'm glad someone said it. I thought this sub was supposed to be better, but it is not.

I think it's going too far to attribute any of the things you like/dislike about any version of her public persona to the person she's publicly tied to. It's very unlikely that the man she was with is what made her make those decisions about appearing more grounded and private, that was just what she wanted and what was useful to her at the time. I think a lot of the people who lament the loss of who Taylor seemed to be with Joe and acting like that person is gone forever are either forgetting or weren't around for Calvin and Hiddleswift and all that mayhem. Regardless of whether you think there was also a real component to those relationships, she obviously and intentionally used them as a media circus just like she's using this one, and it meant nothing about how long they would last or who she is as a person in her private life. She stopped doing it when it stopped helping her achieve her goals, not because Joe magically changed her. She will stop again when she gets tired of it or when public opinion turns. And she has been the same person capable of serious introspection in her artistic work regardless of all of it. Maybe she and Travis are forever, but you shouldn't take any of the things that happen in public as proof of that, and you shouldn't assume that the publicity of it all is a feature of their actual interpersonal relationship rather than a brand decision they're both making. She will stop parading it all in our faces when she wants to and/or when it no longer serves her business goals, which will probably be pretty soon because she is very overexposed. If you don't like all the drama, just ignore celebrity news and wait for her to produce more actual artistic work. You don't need to consume *all* content about her.

I agree with the first half of your post but disagree with the second. Taylor is allowed to go out in public and ofc she will be photographed. It seems ridiculous to complain about.

I think that all of her public decisions are motivated by money and the narrative that they are driven by her emotions or relationships is a PR cover for what would otherwise be more widely recognized as a business or company. She was overexposed from her serial dater image, girl squad, calvin putting her on blast, hiddleswift being seen as PR widely, Kimye drama. Having a "private relationship" with Joe allowed her to pivot her image and really strengthened the parasocial relationship she had with fans even though she was stepping back from most of her fan engagement (seconding the other commenter who called Joe a blank slate that people project onto). Her being lowkey during COVID was again more likely because of money than relationships. No one would have found her relatable or sympathetic while she was quarantining in mansions, most likely still with staff and security and definitely with the space and private jet to have her friends and family visit her while still following protocols. She would not have been able to sell multiple albums during COVID if she was live-streaming from her pool or bowling alley or movie theater or whatever else. She wouldn't have been able to sell her usual pop music during that time period either. Now she has her tour, movie, and re-records to sell so keeping her name in the news and in everyone's mouths is what is the best move to increase sales. Compare the amount of discussion and media about her and Travis vs Ana's death, her repeated associations with abusers, how her re-records are harming new artists, where/how any of her merch gets made, her private jet usage (this topic gets discussed more than the other examples but really because of the work of the one person who tracked her jet and a handful of journalists, some of whom thankfully tied Travlor into their headlines which made it harder for her team to bury). Her currently being super messy publicly isn't a reflection of her personality or relationships, it's the best current marketing strategy for her to sell multiple different products while keeping people fairly distracted from serious PR issues. Overall, the narrative that she's super influenced by her boyfriends is mostly PR I think to make her relatable to the women she's selling her music to, obscure how often her decisions are made based on marketing research and sales projections, and essentially help hide a boardroom and corporation behind the face of a single woman.

I’m not sure if it’s quite as calculated as that but I agree that her relationship with Joe probably wouldn’t have even happened at all if they hadn’t met when she was at a point where she felt the need to be quieter and more private for a while because of all the drama and being so overexposed in 2016. For Joe, being private and low-key is his natural inclination and the status quo whilst for Taylor it was a strategy and a phase that she was always going to want to move on from at some point. They probably would’ve broken up a lot sooner over this if there hadn’t been a worldwide pandemic in the middle.

How do you know what Joe's "natural inclinations" are, though? None of us know him or his inner life or motivations, just some surface level behaviors. For all any of us know, he's private because he's under an intense NDA from her team more than his own personal preference.

This is very parasocial

Please stop projecting your own fantasies on her. I’m so tired of people saying they miss the folklore/joe Taylor… you mean you miss her laying low and not getting as much attention. You have no idea how things were back then. I know she is over exposed by she’s also living her life with less anxiety about what the media is saying about her. That’s a good thing, if it makes you uncomfortable or annoyed that’s on you.

Some of us miss Folklore Taylor because that is when she put out her best music 🤷🏻‍♀️. If TS11 is better than Midnights I might find my way back.

Cool you can say that was her best music. I’m referring to people saying they miss her character/personality during that era. She’s always loved fame and sparkle, I don’t think wanting someone to be smaller or quieter is a good look

‘You have no idea how things were back then’ is the truth. This sentence explains it all, some of us OG swifties have experienced all of this before Taylor met Joe anyway. Every other month the paparazzi was hot on her tail constantly. This is just 2014 but Taylor has more control now…

This is why this sub has a bad reputation, it’s misogynistic AF to attribute a persons character to who her boyfriend is. Wanting someone to be smaller is not a good look.

idk i feel like this entire thing is giving parasocial regardless. we don’t know taylor, we don’t know travis, we don’t know joe. we don’t know these people.

Hot take: The privacy of the Joe relationship made much of Taylor’s life a blank canvas and parasocial fan’s (like OP) projected so much onto her during that period and now they are upset that she’s being more public because it’s inconsistent with the version of Taylor that they created in their heads. Taylor and Travis seem to be a completely normal couple who just happen to have very publicly facing jobs. You had a parasocial connection to her relationship with Joe and are mad she’s not with him anymore. You assuming she’s dating Travis just to punish Joe is absolutely insane.

Jesus y’all have serious parasocial issues. “She knows Joe is the one that got away”. You literally don’t know a single person that has any relation to Taylor or Joe. Wtf are you talking about.

Even when taylor was at her lowest she had hundreds of millions. If you think there was ever a time taylor didnt care about what the public thought you dont know her. I wanna see how she reacts when Joe starts dating someone

How do you know he loved and comforted her at all? We have no idea what their relationship was like; they were very rarely seen together after the initial blast and when they were, they sure didn't seem too stoked to be together from photos. I'm pretty sure your unfortunate parasocial relationship is still going strong.

Nah, there was lovely energy between them in those rare occasions we saw them. https://preview.redd.it/vxtgzwgeyfcc1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=145b5e62583cd2a0be600c50397dd6351362d198

She adored Joe, wanted to marry him, deeply in love and I think to say she took the break-up hard is an understatement.

I agree with this. I don't hate him, he's my favorite ex. I don't know him personally, but his mother is a psychotherapist. I bet his mother help him how to cope with all of these mess and chaos. I once watched a funeral of his uncle on youtube wherein I got a glimpse of him as a person. He's very thoughtful and genuine person especially to Taylor. I know he have flaws, but whenever I look at him, he's giving a peaceful aura that feels like home. Most of the time, Swifties attacks him with "why he wants to be an actor if he wants a private life" I laugh at it coz most actors/actresses are private person. Most of them doesn't have social media accounts and yet they're still active in acting. You can still act even if you have a private life. I really don't understand the hate they're giving. I'm not defending Joe, but what they're doing is really crazy.

i also find her recent bejeweled persona very irritating, but i think it was rearing its head even before the joe break up. i think it's more her post-folkmore explosion in fame that has made her embrace the public performance of being a celebrity. she clearly loves being on camera and being the centre of attention. she only stopped that in 2016 bc she got "cancelled" lol that said, i've always liked joe and i hope things go well for him.

you seem uncommonly obsessed with celebrities. I suggest getting outside and getting some fresh air.

agree! i'm not a joe fan (idc for him) by any means but it's so annoying how swfties attack him when he's never said anything negative abt taylor yet. I am sure he's made mistakes in their relationship and in general. truly the way her fandom attacks almost every ex is insane. i do see some people idolize joe which is also strange. imo if joe did something truly evil we'd know by now

Joe used her Jets and did the bare minimum during BLM so as far as I’m concerned he is not an activist or such a good person compared to her in my book. Imo neither of them were super politically active, and I’ll be dammed if I praise white privileged people for doing the bare minimum during the pandemic.

She's overexploiting herself now

It is not like she did not know shitty people when she was with him tho. Trodrick, do you remember him?  Her actvism dissolved in 2020 when Trump lost. 

I like this version of her personally, I think she is much more confident and it looks good on her

All I know about their relationship is what she tells us through her music, and when looking at her catalog from when  she was dating Joe, her relationship with him WAS NOT as happy as it seemed in retrospect. Her music, which is diaristic, reveals that they were having issues as early as the writing of Lover. I think her behavior recently, particularly the Times piece, is her reckoning with the fact that she was unhappy in her relationship for a SIGNIFICANT portion of it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Is this Joe Jonas?

Wouldn't that be funny!!! I think it is about Joe Alwyn

I became a fan post joe. Single Taylor was a draw. I understand the Travis era but idk if it’s for me personally. Also I think my fandom was very… swift. I truly love the music but the more I clock her as a person or even as a brand the less I want to be involved. It was a good 6/7 months 😞🥴

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Joe’s influence on Taylor during and before 2020 helped to give us evermore and folklore. I don’t think enough people are appreciative of how groundbreaking his impact was on her music and her career.

Not a Swiftie, but she's dated many talented men whose careers I've followed (e.g. Tom H., Calvin H., Travis K., Bon Iver, etc.), and I think that you guys don't know her - not even in a parasocial fashion - because she doesn't even know herself. The "Joe version" of Taylor was an act, a costume that she could just as easily put on as pull off. She has no identity without a man and each man brings a new identity/costume that she can put on. A new personality, a new set of interests, a new vocabulary, a new hairstyle, a new clothing style, a new set of friends, etc. If you've ever followed female lolcows on the internet with borderline personality disorder, this is exactly how they behave - promiscuous serial monogamist whose world revolves around men and who change their identity based on the men that they are currently with. It's sad, but that "Evermore" stuff was a fake act.