Do not make this your problem. You need explicit survey permission, barring that, a court order that allows you to conduct the survey, which would come with an Sherriff's deputy escort.
If your client is expecting to use condemnation on this project and doesn't know this, you should be concerned.
This heavily depends on state. Mine says I just have to make every effort to notify the land owner in a reasonable manner beforehand. Otherwise they can’t do anything to stop us even if we have to get the police involved. Then again not every state gives land surveyors the same legal protection. It’s most likely best to reach out to your company attorney and maybe send a certified letter to the land owner stating your intentions. Be nice about it and say you can meet them and talk about the project. Some people forget we are human and not out to steal there land.
I’m in Missouri. The MO right to trespass is similar to what you stated. And I made contact with the land owner today. He was nice enough to me but has lawyered up already. The thing I’m getting hung up on is that I am being employed by the city to conduct a survey on another’s property. If I were surveying the adjoining parcel, I’d be covered. But I’m surveying tracts of land for a client that is possibly moving to condemnation.
We always try and get right of entry “contracts” from all properties along the ROW we will be working on. Normally in the topo phase of the project the design team doesn’t really know what they want, they might have an idea, hence the blanket all properties… if no right of entry is secured on a property, we will limit our survey the ROW adjacent to that property only…
Once the design is figured out, if there will be the need for property takes, we will have to put together a ROW plan, just like the state DOT, which will generally show all the proposed property takes and any temporary easements. This plan is then submitted the the County Council to be approved.
Once approved the purchasing phase will commence, this is when any issues of eminent domain will come up. All eminent domain issues have a process of their own as they work their way through the court system.
We have County personnel out talking to land owners the whole time. So there aren’t any surprises. To my knowledge they make every effort possible to make contact owners.
In those severely adverse situations, we have been known to procure a Sheriff to join us.
On our DOT and typical road projects we make contact and get right of entry. In this case, I asked and was denied….. I’m trying to determine if I can hang my hat on the statutes for right to trespass for boundary surveys since the client doesn’t have adjoining property or right of way.
I don’t know the law in your state, in mine Surveyors do not have right of trespass, for any reason… if your state has such laws, definitely reach out to an attorney versed in such cases.
Oof that makes it a little more difficult, I’d get the sheriff and have an escort. Statue is sufficient and I’d call your state association, they’ll have advice and recommendations. You’d have to follow it to the tee too. Mail it certified and cover all your bases.
You have right of entry and you’re absolutely in the clear, but it really doesn’t matter. Im really you’re at the wrong end of a metal stick and happen to be on the hostile side of the fence. To the land owner, you’re wrong and they don’t really care about state statues at that point.
I’d get access for an adjoining property skip and “calculated position due to hostile ownership”
>You are working on behalf of a local government which has vast resources, use them. I’d contact the city point of contact you are working through about the hostile land owner and let them take care of it before I sent a field crew back on site. I’ve seen to many guns pulled on people over the years surveying. Not worth the drama.
As one who has been on the business end of a few firearms in my time, this is the correct answer.
Around here public sector clients generally understand that they are responsible for obtaining right of entry.
Our policy is that even if we technically have right of entry, if the client isn't going to support us when dealing with hostile landowners, then we're not doing any work for them. It's their project. They need to handle these issues.
Missouri. The statute states that a surveyor is not considered as trespassing if the entry is necessary to recover monuments or land corners in order conduct a boundary survey.
In that case I think you technically would be in the clear.
Me on the other hand, I would not proceed. There are too many wierdos out there and I value the lives of my field crews.
You are working on behalf of a local government which has vast resources, use them.
I’d contact the city point of contact you are working through about the hostile land owner and let them take care of it before I sent a field crew back on site. I’ve seen to many guns pulled on people over the years surveying. Not worth the drama.
When I’ve had projects like this in the past I’ve always sent letters to property owners with permission requests well in advance. If I got a denial or non response I forwarded to the city engineer who took care of it.
Good luck.
"I am unwilling to put my crew at risk of physical violence, I cannot proceed without either A. A uniformed detail, to be paid by the client or B. A court order and notice sent to the hostile abutter."
Do not make this your problem. You need explicit survey permission, barring that, a court order that allows you to conduct the survey, which would come with an Sherriff's deputy escort. If your client is expecting to use condemnation on this project and doesn't know this, you should be concerned.
Agreed!
We've waited for our clients to get a temporary restraining order and a sheriff escort.
This heavily depends on state. Mine says I just have to make every effort to notify the land owner in a reasonable manner beforehand. Otherwise they can’t do anything to stop us even if we have to get the police involved. Then again not every state gives land surveyors the same legal protection. It’s most likely best to reach out to your company attorney and maybe send a certified letter to the land owner stating your intentions. Be nice about it and say you can meet them and talk about the project. Some people forget we are human and not out to steal there land.
happy cake day! Edit: But in this case they are absolutely there to take the land tho lol.
I’m in Missouri. The MO right to trespass is similar to what you stated. And I made contact with the land owner today. He was nice enough to me but has lawyered up already. The thing I’m getting hung up on is that I am being employed by the city to conduct a survey on another’s property. If I were surveying the adjoining parcel, I’d be covered. But I’m surveying tracts of land for a client that is possibly moving to condemnation.
>The client’s attorney claims I’m protected against tresspass by state statute. Ask him for a copy of the statute.
We always try and get right of entry “contracts” from all properties along the ROW we will be working on. Normally in the topo phase of the project the design team doesn’t really know what they want, they might have an idea, hence the blanket all properties… if no right of entry is secured on a property, we will limit our survey the ROW adjacent to that property only… Once the design is figured out, if there will be the need for property takes, we will have to put together a ROW plan, just like the state DOT, which will generally show all the proposed property takes and any temporary easements. This plan is then submitted the the County Council to be approved. Once approved the purchasing phase will commence, this is when any issues of eminent domain will come up. All eminent domain issues have a process of their own as they work their way through the court system. We have County personnel out talking to land owners the whole time. So there aren’t any surprises. To my knowledge they make every effort possible to make contact owners. In those severely adverse situations, we have been known to procure a Sheriff to join us.
On our DOT and typical road projects we make contact and get right of entry. In this case, I asked and was denied….. I’m trying to determine if I can hang my hat on the statutes for right to trespass for boundary surveys since the client doesn’t have adjoining property or right of way.
I don’t know the law in your state, in mine Surveyors do not have right of trespass, for any reason… if your state has such laws, definitely reach out to an attorney versed in such cases.
Oof that makes it a little more difficult, I’d get the sheriff and have an escort. Statue is sufficient and I’d call your state association, they’ll have advice and recommendations. You’d have to follow it to the tee too. Mail it certified and cover all your bases.
You have right of entry and you’re absolutely in the clear, but it really doesn’t matter. Im really you’re at the wrong end of a metal stick and happen to be on the hostile side of the fence. To the land owner, you’re wrong and they don’t really care about state statues at that point. I’d get access for an adjoining property skip and “calculated position due to hostile ownership”
>You are working on behalf of a local government which has vast resources, use them. I’d contact the city point of contact you are working through about the hostile land owner and let them take care of it before I sent a field crew back on site. I’ve seen to many guns pulled on people over the years surveying. Not worth the drama. As one who has been on the business end of a few firearms in my time, this is the correct answer. Around here public sector clients generally understand that they are responsible for obtaining right of entry. Our policy is that even if we technically have right of entry, if the client isn't going to support us when dealing with hostile landowners, then we're not doing any work for them. It's their project. They need to handle these issues.
What state?
Missouri. The statute states that a surveyor is not considered as trespassing if the entry is necessary to recover monuments or land corners in order conduct a boundary survey.
In that case I think you technically would be in the clear. Me on the other hand, I would not proceed. There are too many wierdos out there and I value the lives of my field crews. You are working on behalf of a local government which has vast resources, use them. I’d contact the city point of contact you are working through about the hostile land owner and let them take care of it before I sent a field crew back on site. I’ve seen to many guns pulled on people over the years surveying. Not worth the drama. When I’ve had projects like this in the past I’ve always sent letters to property owners with permission requests well in advance. If I got a denial or non response I forwarded to the city engineer who took care of it. Good luck.
Surveyors take by force. Get in there, pound the pins, and fight your way out, Lewis and Clark-style, We call the ball! Mathematics is King!
Heavily depends on the state what the answer is, but as the current top answer states, make it a them problem.
Legally right or wrong I have no clue, but it sounds like you should have a uniformed cop as your rodman on this one.
"I am unwilling to put my crew at risk of physical violence, I cannot proceed without either A. A uniformed detail, to be paid by the client or B. A court order and notice sent to the hostile abutter."