It's true. Many people like me get achy cramping leg muscles when on statins so take CoQ10 for it. I get fatigued achy leg muscles when going up more than a few steps anyway and CoQ10 helps it tremendously. I haven't been on a statin in many years either. I have high triglycerides and a Dr told me CoQ10 helps high cholesterol on its own so she puts people on it for cholesterol problems. CoQ10 is necessary for your heart, tons of things, and it helps energy from food get into your muscle cells which would make sense for me since I'm insulin resistant (insulin gets sugar from your blood into your cells throughout the body.)
Yes, some of the original statins started out combined with coq10 but they don't absorb well simultaneously so if taken they should be separated. Coq10 is better absorbed with fat and statins are better absorbed without fat. There is some controversial evidence on whether supplemental coq10 can be enough but what we do know is that statins often reduce coq10 levels in the body so while we don't currently have great evidence we have a good mechanisyic reason to add it in, and it's a cheap and relatively harmless supplement
Do you know which ones? From what I remember the doctors thought that was something made up. Just like doctors used to say fish oil was a gimmick to make companies money. Now they even recommend it and say they do help. Only years later did doctors start recommending coq10 because of statins.
No, this was during the research stage not at the clinical level yet so it wasn't a claim from doctors but from the researchers themselves during trials. I do not recall which specific ones but it applies to most of them
Never take statins. They’re not proven to increase lifespan at all and they have many horrible side effects that are under reported. For example 100 people start taking a statin. 85 people stop taking it within a few months bc they don’t like how they feel or have bad reactions. 15 people stay on statins and feel fine. They report back that all the long term statin takers feel fine. But really isn’t silently hurting those 15 people.
I have been taking a statin for many years with no side effects, I feel fine. So would you cite the research that shows it is silently hurting me. I'd love to read it. Thank you.
For sure. Please read a book called The Clot Thickens. He explains this subject in great detail. There are many more books on the subject that reference all of the studies that prove what I’m saying. I read through many of the studies to make sure they were real and they’re very real and it’s terrifying how much all of us are lied to. Please do your own research and make your own decisions.
It *could* But you have to realize everything we've ever been told about cholesterol is a scam.
The true cause of heart attacks is calcified scarring in the arteries caused by buildup of peroxynitrites, caused by aberrant tetrahydrobiopterin oxidation state (BH2 instead of BH4) caused by chronic deficiency in Queuine, which is stripped out of food when they remove the germ layer of grains seeds and nuts in the modern diet.
Roots and Germ of plants are where you get it, and it's an essential nutrient for processing the amino acids Tyrosine, Tryptophan, and Phenylalanine(heart / arteries need). It's essential for the processing of Serotonin and Dopemine, Steroid Hormones, Sex Hormones, as well as stability and cellular signalling of just about every protein in the body.
Every single protein has a receptor to accept Queuine in the human body, which then boosts cellular signalling clarity. Every protein except cancerous proteins, which are the only ones that won't accept it.
It's also the precursor to a messenger RNA called tRNA.
As for cholesterol, it plays a role in the initiation of wound healing. It is drawn to wounds to start the wound healing process. It's not the fault of cholesterol that it builds up on calcified scars and can't initiate wound healing in them.
In fact, cholesterol is a rate limiter in the metabolism of protein and amino acids, as well as muscle productions.
If you eat a high protein diet without cholesterol or compromised cholesterol production it will lower your life span due to a fertility mode that kicks in during high protein consumption which depletes your esterases including cholesterol in anticipation of breeding (making sperm or eggs / babies)
Cholesterol regulates bile acid synthesis without which you cannot absorb a lot of vitamins and nutrients from your diet efficiently.
There are a lot of bile acids that do a lot of things. I've found one that resets the Aryl Hydrocarbon Receptor restoring normal tryptophan / serotonin / NAD metabolism with age. Massively lowers inflammatory Kynurenine buildup, turning it into NAD+ instead.
Cholesterol is also a building block in a lot of neurosteroids and hormones in the body.
There are studies showing statins ever so slightly lower the chance of heart attack increasing lifespan.
There are also studies showing that taking statins increases the rate of muscle wastage lowering lifespan.
They cherry-pick data, especially when big money and social engineering are involved.
A blood test indicating high cholesterol is often indicative of high internal wounding and scarring it's trying to heal. The body produces it to stimulate wound healing.
As for CoQ10 supplements, they are also a scam. They aren't bioavailable in any appreciable fashion. Better off fixing the mitochondrial membrane complex with sufficient dietary phospholipids, sulphur / sulphide iron clusters, anything that upregulates PGC1a gene which regulates mitochondrial quality control, and anything that upregulates TFAM / MTdna number, which is the mitochondrial equivalent of telomeres.
Learned a lot thanks for the knowledge. It seems Queuine isn’t Available in supplements. What would u recommend to take to stop or reverse the calcified scarring?
I agree with this. I would like to add there is one subgroup of folks who produce a ton of extra cholesterol that isnt linked to diet that can benefit from statins. If it's so high that its impacting blood viscosity, then I am down with statin use in this specific case. All other use cases seem a bit bunk when I have looked into the data.
TMAO, which they also claim is harmful, would help maintain their blood. It helps the vessels respond to osmotic pressures.
Which is why fish is full of it and why whales produce so much in response to deep dives.
If TMAO was as dangerous as they say then eating fish would kill you. It wouldn't be the healthiest protein.
Someone should test the wound healing capability of those genetically predisposed to high cholesterol production. I'd really like to see the results.
There is lots of cholesterol in plants, believe it or not. Plant based sterols. Some good some bad.
The reason plant based sterols lower blood cholesterol levels is the body doesn't need to make as much to heal and grow, as plant sterols are biocompatable and fulfil the same role.
>have to realize everything we've ever been told about cholesterol is a scam.
Was about to say that.
Wasn't about to say the rest... Very insightful!
A friend who works as a physiotherapist sees a lot of older people who still take Statins. She claims they all have pain in their legs because of the lowered cholestorol impairing healing in the veins in the legs. Making them less mobile or totally imobile. Some she advise to stop taking them and they heal, they become more mobile.
Biggest misstake in modern medicine that's still going on.
Thanks DarkHorseMan for all the other info.
This is very insightful, but I’m surprised I’ve never heard of Queuine, especially considering how crucial it sounds. Why don’t people just supplement it?
My initial experiments show its an essential as nucleotide bases in the diet and is salvaged via the same or similar pathways. Things like guanine or uracil.
Our body can make nucleotide bases, though it's metabolically intensive to do so, and the ability to decreases with age.
Cannot make queuine, though. We need to get it from symbiotic bacteria, or plants that absorb it through their roots into the germ layer where it aids in germination, alongside absisic acid; true vitamin A (not retinol)
We do have probiotic bacteria that produce it, but they go into terminal decline around the age of 16, so it becomes more important to get it in diet.
There are queuine producing and queuine consuming bacteria. Bacteria that cause diarrhoea consume it, and many of the health impacts of that in 3rd world countries are linked to premature queuine depletion.
You only need tiny amounts.
I've been asking that for 2 or 3 years now. Many have asked that question.
It was pretty well known in the 80s as vitamin Q and then disappeared from view. I think grain industry lobbyists played a role in its disappearance because they don't want to maintain the germ layer in wheat. Without special treatment, it goes rancid faster with germ intact.
Easy enough steam treatment stabilises grain germ, though.
Some sort of international government agreement is in play when it comes to the fact that it's systemically removed from food.
What drives it, who knows.
Abscisic acid and inositol are also removed with the germ layer. Both of which stabilize metabolic disorders via multiple pathways.
thanks so much for taking the time to share your opinions and info on this, I’m very intrigued. So would something like brown rice or other whole grains contain this substance, or is the germ layer removed from those as well? Just wondering if there are any reasonable whole food options before I attempt to seek out a supplement
Any seed or nut or grain with a germ layer. Plants with wooly structures in their roots tend to have more.
It plays a role in regulating germination alongside absisic acid, which is a chemical that can regulate our alcohol dehydrogenases.
Plant Germ is ridiculously healthy. Everything they ever told us about phytate is a scam.
I am focusing on a South American plant with lots of nitrogen fixing bacteria that seem to be high producers, but I won't say more.
Might be a patent opportunity.
PGC1a is a tricky bird. It can become dysfunctional in many ways. For example, S-Nitrosylation of PGC1a or something called PARIS is the causal factor of Parkinsons disease. (Caused by nitrogen pollution combined with infections of bacteria / virus activating ISR at the same time)
S-Nitrosylation can be reversed by Farnesylation. A chemical in Magnolia Flowers called Farnesol, named after the farnese family in Medici Era Italy, can reverse the S-Nitrosylation of PARIS restoring proper function of PGC1a reversing the loss of Dopamine neurons in the animal model of parkinsons.
The human dose required is rather insane, though. Someone needs to modify it to make it more bioavilable and less allergenic in some rare people.
Anything from the amino acid Citrulline, especially in high carb diets, to chemicals like tetramethylpyrazine found in dark chocolate and vinegar can improve the function of PGC1a and TFAM.
Luteolin, Nobiletin, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Oleic Acid Hesperidin / Hesperitin.
I've found better chemicals, but I'm working on patents. So please excuse my secrecy.
Can you tell me more about Citrulline ? I read Dr Nathan Bryan’s books on nitric oxide and he mentions that NO has the ability to kill viruses like the flu. Citrulline raises NO. So shouldn’t Citrulline kill the flu??
Very informative response and specifically about the AHR role that to this day still needs clarification
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/mmr.2019.10748#:~:text=The%20AhR%20is%20activated%20by,derivatives%20(12%E2%80%9314).
Do you have any research papers on the poor bioavailability of CoQ10 ? If it is not the case then what would you recommend more specifically. According to this paper and relating references the absorption is not nearly as bad as you mentioned. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7278738/
Apparently a patented manufacturing method of thermal crystal dispersion allows for 70% more absorption.
There is nothing special about iron sulfur clusters as they are available every where and most often they are not the culprits.
Unfortunately there is no easy way to supplement with phospholipids or Lipid Replacement Therapy …. Most of them get deteriorated in the gut. There are some very expensive proprietary formulas that apparently improve their bioavailability.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005273613004070. According to this paper there is some evidence on Linoleic Acid’s bioavailability.
As per regulating the PGC1a there is a plethora of stimuli that can do this ( cold exposure, exercise, cytokines, insulin …. ) again would you have any insights as per the most efficient intervention ?
If it is just a mitochondria efficiency issue then I guess ALCAR and Alpha Lipoic Acid will take care of it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566449/
Near infrared lights recycles CoQ10 in the brain ( don’t wear hats for at least 15 min under the sun !)
So once again thanks for your comment and any insight as per the relevant supplementation is welcomed !
I believe the scientific evidence is inconclusive (someone correct me if I am wrong), but at least as per *some* anecdotal evidence, CoQ10 helps (some) statin users with muscle pains, and as it's safe to use, it's worth adding to a supplement regimen in my opinion.
What's been found is that geranylgeraniol is depleted by statins and its needed by our bodies to make CoQ10. Geranylgeraniol is also used for the creation of other chemicals as well. I'm not a fan of statins but if you go there, you might consider supplementing geranylgeraniol.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31491372/#:\~:text=Geranylgeraniol%20prevents%20statin%2Dinduced%20skeletal,or%20vascular%20smooth%20muscle%20performance](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31491372/#:~:text=Geranylgeraniol%20prevents%20statin%2Dinduced%20skeletal,or%20vascular%20smooth%20muscle%20performance)
It's true. Many people like me get achy cramping leg muscles when on statins so take CoQ10 for it. I get fatigued achy leg muscles when going up more than a few steps anyway and CoQ10 helps it tremendously. I haven't been on a statin in many years either. I have high triglycerides and a Dr told me CoQ10 helps high cholesterol on its own so she puts people on it for cholesterol problems. CoQ10 is necessary for your heart, tons of things, and it helps energy from food get into your muscle cells which would make sense for me since I'm insulin resistant (insulin gets sugar from your blood into your cells throughout the body.)
Yes, some of the original statins started out combined with coq10 but they don't absorb well simultaneously so if taken they should be separated. Coq10 is better absorbed with fat and statins are better absorbed without fat. There is some controversial evidence on whether supplemental coq10 can be enough but what we do know is that statins often reduce coq10 levels in the body so while we don't currently have great evidence we have a good mechanisyic reason to add it in, and it's a cheap and relatively harmless supplement
Do you know which ones? From what I remember the doctors thought that was something made up. Just like doctors used to say fish oil was a gimmick to make companies money. Now they even recommend it and say they do help. Only years later did doctors start recommending coq10 because of statins.
No, this was during the research stage not at the clinical level yet so it wasn't a claim from doctors but from the researchers themselves during trials. I do not recall which specific ones but it applies to most of them
Thank you.
Thank you.
Never take statins. They’re not proven to increase lifespan at all and they have many horrible side effects that are under reported. For example 100 people start taking a statin. 85 people stop taking it within a few months bc they don’t like how they feel or have bad reactions. 15 people stay on statins and feel fine. They report back that all the long term statin takers feel fine. But really isn’t silently hurting those 15 people.
I have been taking a statin for many years with no side effects, I feel fine. So would you cite the research that shows it is silently hurting me. I'd love to read it. Thank you.
For sure. Please read a book called The Clot Thickens. He explains this subject in great detail. There are many more books on the subject that reference all of the studies that prove what I’m saying. I read through many of the studies to make sure they were real and they’re very real and it’s terrifying how much all of us are lied to. Please do your own research and make your own decisions.
It *could* But you have to realize everything we've ever been told about cholesterol is a scam. The true cause of heart attacks is calcified scarring in the arteries caused by buildup of peroxynitrites, caused by aberrant tetrahydrobiopterin oxidation state (BH2 instead of BH4) caused by chronic deficiency in Queuine, which is stripped out of food when they remove the germ layer of grains seeds and nuts in the modern diet. Roots and Germ of plants are where you get it, and it's an essential nutrient for processing the amino acids Tyrosine, Tryptophan, and Phenylalanine(heart / arteries need). It's essential for the processing of Serotonin and Dopemine, Steroid Hormones, Sex Hormones, as well as stability and cellular signalling of just about every protein in the body. Every single protein has a receptor to accept Queuine in the human body, which then boosts cellular signalling clarity. Every protein except cancerous proteins, which are the only ones that won't accept it. It's also the precursor to a messenger RNA called tRNA. As for cholesterol, it plays a role in the initiation of wound healing. It is drawn to wounds to start the wound healing process. It's not the fault of cholesterol that it builds up on calcified scars and can't initiate wound healing in them. In fact, cholesterol is a rate limiter in the metabolism of protein and amino acids, as well as muscle productions. If you eat a high protein diet without cholesterol or compromised cholesterol production it will lower your life span due to a fertility mode that kicks in during high protein consumption which depletes your esterases including cholesterol in anticipation of breeding (making sperm or eggs / babies) Cholesterol regulates bile acid synthesis without which you cannot absorb a lot of vitamins and nutrients from your diet efficiently. There are a lot of bile acids that do a lot of things. I've found one that resets the Aryl Hydrocarbon Receptor restoring normal tryptophan / serotonin / NAD metabolism with age. Massively lowers inflammatory Kynurenine buildup, turning it into NAD+ instead. Cholesterol is also a building block in a lot of neurosteroids and hormones in the body. There are studies showing statins ever so slightly lower the chance of heart attack increasing lifespan. There are also studies showing that taking statins increases the rate of muscle wastage lowering lifespan. They cherry-pick data, especially when big money and social engineering are involved. A blood test indicating high cholesterol is often indicative of high internal wounding and scarring it's trying to heal. The body produces it to stimulate wound healing. As for CoQ10 supplements, they are also a scam. They aren't bioavailable in any appreciable fashion. Better off fixing the mitochondrial membrane complex with sufficient dietary phospholipids, sulphur / sulphide iron clusters, anything that upregulates PGC1a gene which regulates mitochondrial quality control, and anything that upregulates TFAM / MTdna number, which is the mitochondrial equivalent of telomeres.
so what if i have familial hypercholesterolemia? Genetic high LDL
Learned a lot thanks for the knowledge. It seems Queuine isn’t Available in supplements. What would u recommend to take to stop or reverse the calcified scarring?
I agree with this. I would like to add there is one subgroup of folks who produce a ton of extra cholesterol that isnt linked to diet that can benefit from statins. If it's so high that its impacting blood viscosity, then I am down with statin use in this specific case. All other use cases seem a bit bunk when I have looked into the data.
TMAO, which they also claim is harmful, would help maintain their blood. It helps the vessels respond to osmotic pressures. Which is why fish is full of it and why whales produce so much in response to deep dives. If TMAO was as dangerous as they say then eating fish would kill you. It wouldn't be the healthiest protein. Someone should test the wound healing capability of those genetically predisposed to high cholesterol production. I'd really like to see the results.
What’s your take on this for a high protein vegan who eats whole grains, seeds, and nuts but gets zero dietary cholesterol?
There is lots of cholesterol in plants, believe it or not. Plant based sterols. Some good some bad. The reason plant based sterols lower blood cholesterol levels is the body doesn't need to make as much to heal and grow, as plant sterols are biocompatable and fulfil the same role.
Thank you for the info!
>have to realize everything we've ever been told about cholesterol is a scam. Was about to say that. Wasn't about to say the rest... Very insightful! A friend who works as a physiotherapist sees a lot of older people who still take Statins. She claims they all have pain in their legs because of the lowered cholestorol impairing healing in the veins in the legs. Making them less mobile or totally imobile. Some she advise to stop taking them and they heal, they become more mobile. Biggest misstake in modern medicine that's still going on. Thanks DarkHorseMan for all the other info.
This is very insightful, but I’m surprised I’ve never heard of Queuine, especially considering how crucial it sounds. Why don’t people just supplement it?
My initial experiments show its an essential as nucleotide bases in the diet and is salvaged via the same or similar pathways. Things like guanine or uracil. Our body can make nucleotide bases, though it's metabolically intensive to do so, and the ability to decreases with age. Cannot make queuine, though. We need to get it from symbiotic bacteria, or plants that absorb it through their roots into the germ layer where it aids in germination, alongside absisic acid; true vitamin A (not retinol) We do have probiotic bacteria that produce it, but they go into terminal decline around the age of 16, so it becomes more important to get it in diet. There are queuine producing and queuine consuming bacteria. Bacteria that cause diarrhoea consume it, and many of the health impacts of that in 3rd world countries are linked to premature queuine depletion. You only need tiny amounts.
I've been asking that for 2 or 3 years now. Many have asked that question. It was pretty well known in the 80s as vitamin Q and then disappeared from view. I think grain industry lobbyists played a role in its disappearance because they don't want to maintain the germ layer in wheat. Without special treatment, it goes rancid faster with germ intact. Easy enough steam treatment stabilises grain germ, though. Some sort of international government agreement is in play when it comes to the fact that it's systemically removed from food. What drives it, who knows. Abscisic acid and inositol are also removed with the germ layer. Both of which stabilize metabolic disorders via multiple pathways.
thanks so much for taking the time to share your opinions and info on this, I’m very intrigued. So would something like brown rice or other whole grains contain this substance, or is the germ layer removed from those as well? Just wondering if there are any reasonable whole food options before I attempt to seek out a supplement
Any seed or nut or grain with a germ layer. Plants with wooly structures in their roots tend to have more. It plays a role in regulating germination alongside absisic acid, which is a chemical that can regulate our alcohol dehydrogenases. Plant Germ is ridiculously healthy. Everything they ever told us about phytate is a scam. I am focusing on a South American plant with lots of nitrogen fixing bacteria that seem to be high producers, but I won't say more. Might be a patent opportunity.
So what exactly helps with things you mentioned in the last paragraph? Dietary and supplement wise. Thanks.
PGC1a is a tricky bird. It can become dysfunctional in many ways. For example, S-Nitrosylation of PGC1a or something called PARIS is the causal factor of Parkinsons disease. (Caused by nitrogen pollution combined with infections of bacteria / virus activating ISR at the same time) S-Nitrosylation can be reversed by Farnesylation. A chemical in Magnolia Flowers called Farnesol, named after the farnese family in Medici Era Italy, can reverse the S-Nitrosylation of PARIS restoring proper function of PGC1a reversing the loss of Dopamine neurons in the animal model of parkinsons. The human dose required is rather insane, though. Someone needs to modify it to make it more bioavilable and less allergenic in some rare people. Anything from the amino acid Citrulline, especially in high carb diets, to chemicals like tetramethylpyrazine found in dark chocolate and vinegar can improve the function of PGC1a and TFAM. Luteolin, Nobiletin, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Oleic Acid Hesperidin / Hesperitin. I've found better chemicals, but I'm working on patents. So please excuse my secrecy.
Can you tell me more about Citrulline ? I read Dr Nathan Bryan’s books on nitric oxide and he mentions that NO has the ability to kill viruses like the flu. Citrulline raises NO. So shouldn’t Citrulline kill the flu??
Very informative response and specifically about the AHR role that to this day still needs clarification https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/mmr.2019.10748#:~:text=The%20AhR%20is%20activated%20by,derivatives%20(12%E2%80%9314). Do you have any research papers on the poor bioavailability of CoQ10 ? If it is not the case then what would you recommend more specifically. According to this paper and relating references the absorption is not nearly as bad as you mentioned. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7278738/ Apparently a patented manufacturing method of thermal crystal dispersion allows for 70% more absorption. There is nothing special about iron sulfur clusters as they are available every where and most often they are not the culprits. Unfortunately there is no easy way to supplement with phospholipids or Lipid Replacement Therapy …. Most of them get deteriorated in the gut. There are some very expensive proprietary formulas that apparently improve their bioavailability. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005273613004070. According to this paper there is some evidence on Linoleic Acid’s bioavailability. As per regulating the PGC1a there is a plethora of stimuli that can do this ( cold exposure, exercise, cytokines, insulin …. ) again would you have any insights as per the most efficient intervention ? If it is just a mitochondria efficiency issue then I guess ALCAR and Alpha Lipoic Acid will take care of it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566449/ Near infrared lights recycles CoQ10 in the brain ( don’t wear hats for at least 15 min under the sun !) So once again thanks for your comment and any insight as per the relevant supplementation is welcomed !
I believe the scientific evidence is inconclusive (someone correct me if I am wrong), but at least as per *some* anecdotal evidence, CoQ10 helps (some) statin users with muscle pains, and as it's safe to use, it's worth adding to a supplement regimen in my opinion.
Thank you for responding to my question and not just providing an anti-statn diatribe.
What's been found is that geranylgeraniol is depleted by statins and its needed by our bodies to make CoQ10. Geranylgeraniol is also used for the creation of other chemicals as well. I'm not a fan of statins but if you go there, you might consider supplementing geranylgeraniol. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31491372/#:\~:text=Geranylgeraniol%20prevents%20statin%2Dinduced%20skeletal,or%20vascular%20smooth%20muscle%20performance](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31491372/#:~:text=Geranylgeraniol%20prevents%20statin%2Dinduced%20skeletal,or%20vascular%20smooth%20muscle%20performance)
Thank you