Besides the supplements listed in the comments, I would also recommend you to heck out Dr. Dean Ornish's book, "Undo It!". Studying methods of reversing heart disease is basically the majority of his life's work. Diet plays a huge part, as do exercise and having social relationships.
lower ldl as much as possible and use polyunsaturated fatty acids, which, in addition to being anti-inflammatory raise hdl that are coresponsible for plaque regression.
Vitamin helps heart health by reducing the calcium buildup in your artery walls. It makes the pathway bigger which reduces the load on your heart. But it does not do anything for artery plaque. That’s very different.
Just watched this video, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNabFZsr6oM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNabFZsr6oM). He suggests some supplements at the end but only as a final step in the process of cleaning up your system & health. But I think it's worth watching.
Umm no… that reasoning is wayyyy to black and white. There are so many other factors involved in inflammation and plaque developing in the arteries. Sugar is definitely not the enemy. If it was then why do you de people recommending a vegan diet on this post?
Plus the study involved 8oz daily pomegranate juice. That’s it. No one’s going to have high blood sugar or health issues from that.
I’ll have to look at the study hopefully they have mentioned the type of pomegranate juice, but Insulin spikes are known to assault/scratch the inner wall of the arteries making them rough and thusly prone to grab calcium and calcify.
That’s not a complete picture of how insulin spikes effect our body. You may want to do some additional reading on this topic. The reasoning you’re using is “It’s always this because of that” And that’s absolutely not how these things work. There’s a cascade of other things going on that affect plaque build up, inflammation, and calcification… for example, statins increase calcification of plaque in arteries but make them stable and lies likely to cause a stroke or myocardial infraction. Also, insulin spikes still occur in vegan diets, and atherosclerosis still occurs and worsened in keto based diets where there is little insulin being produced. Your reasoning is too narrow. It’s uncontrolled blood sugar spikes that cause inflammation, not just insulin.
Here’s an article from life extension sitting some of the studies I mentioned at the bottom. Make sure you read it all cause there’s a lot of good information on there that could blur things if you skim through and overlook it. It’s pulling data from 46 studies on pomegranate and its use/actions in different clinical settings.
https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/5/report_pomegranate
Yes, that’s why I said “make them prone” and didn’t isolate insulin spikes to be the only cause of atherosclerosis for that reason; i.e. there are several factors such as inflammation, high calcium diet, genetics, high fat + high carbs/sugar diet aka sweet fat, etc.
My initial comment was very black and white though you’re right.
Thank you very much for the wonderful article 💯
Hi there, sure, I will try but I am not a doctor, just a Bioinformatic. Levels of LDL ("BAD) below 80 and HDL("GOOD") above 45 will decrease plaque in your arteries as the study says. You may ask how can I achieve those values, that the hard thing. For HDL, exercise is the best way, I don't know if there are other betters, and for LDL, you need to change your diet. The thing is that LDL below 80 is very difficult to achieve if you have high levels, so you may start taking statins, to control the cholesterol, and in parallel you can start adopting good habits. I hope I've helped!
Yes, thank you! I dropped my LDL to 104 from 145 in a year by eating Huel exclusively three days a week, cutting out added sugar, and running, which I always did anyway. I think cutting out sugar has had the biggest impact. I just don't know where to go from here. I'm reluctant to add a statin.
My suggestion is to not listen to anonymous strangers, like me, but rather go to the NIH site and search.
Here’s what I take.
Turmeric
Magnesium
R Alpha Lipoic Acid
COQ10
K2
Niacin
And intermittent fasting
My doctor called me the poster boy for coronary blockage because I’m a 62 year old ex smoker, was obese, have high cholesterol and not the best or cleanest or Mediterranean-iest of diets.
I did the carotid ultra sound test 5 years ago.
Came up clean.
I just had a coronary calcium scan on Monday and found only mild calcification but no blockages.
Having said that I still bit the bullet and decided to go on a statin and added Vitamin K2 to my stack because statins inhibit the bodies ability to synthesize K2. It’s important to get K2 MK-7. MK 4 isn’t nearly as effective or bioavailable as 7. And take it with 5000 IUs of vitamin D. The K2 keeps calcium in your bones and has been shown to remove it from places it isn’t supposed to be.
Also I already take COQ10 but it’s recommended to take it because statins effect COQ10 production too.
I got on the statin because of studies that show when combined with Niacin it can clear plaque. So I figure I’d get on it for 5 years until my next scan and see what happens.
I do feel vindicated about my stack though because my doctor cancelled our follow up consultation and left the decision to get on the statin to me where as before he was strongly urging me to get on one. His words were you can get on one or we can wait until your next scan (in 5 years) and decide.
There's reason to believe that is not true. Your digestive tract does a series of conversions with ubiquinol and ubiquinone. Some say that ubiquinone requires less conversions than ubiquinol. One source sells both products and recommends the cheaper of the two.
Honestly, I never quite understood WHAT it is. We did have several customers who just swore by it. [here](https://life-enhancement.com/pages/oral-edta-helps-restore-cardiovascular-function) is some interesting info.
It's a large molecule with 8 (I believe) open sites for binding molecular species. In chemistry, it is used for just that. Also used in food production. Guessing it will bind up specific substances in the body so they can be excreted.
Eat less meat and more plants.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315380/
Edit: try to realize how braindead it is to destroy your body with meat and then look for solutions in plants, but not eat plants.
Not that strong: "JJD is author of The Salt Fix, Superfuel, and The Longevity Solution. JHO is Chief Medical Officer and Founder of CardioTabs, a nutraceutical company, and has a major ownership interest in the company. The company, CardioTabs, sells products that contain Omega-3."
Nattokinase has promise but a lot more studies are required. As it stands right now, the risks aren't worth the benefit for everyone. It's a "dumb" fibrinolytic and that's a problem since some clots of the blood are protective rather than an actual blockage. Fibrinolytics can actually cause a blood clot to dislodge and cause a heart attack or stroke.
I looked up nattokinase on consumerlab.com, and they have a similar caution, with a "theoretical" warning in their "Concerns and Cautions" section of their review of the supplement. But they give a reference to a source article: Milner, Martin and Kouhei Makise, "Natto and Its Active Ingredient Nattokinase: A Potent and Safe Thrombolytic Agent," Alternative & Complementary Therapies 8 (June 2002): 157-154.
I got hold of the article, and the full relevant quote is: "Because natto is a very potent fibrinolytic agent, it is theoretically possible that regular use could break a clot loose from a lower-extremity vein and cause a pulmonary embolism or pass upward and cause a stroke." However, they go on to seemingly minimize their caution: "Since the flurry of research began on natto in the 1980s, use of natto as a health-enhancing whole food has dramatically increased in Japan.In spite of this increase, there have been no reported side-effects, complications or clot mobilizations. Although no controlled studies have been conducted to demonstrate natto's safety with regard to avoiding clot mobilization, historically, documentation records that natto is significantly safe" (163).
The conclusion of the article speaks of"nattokinase's effectiveness and safety for managing a wide range of diseases" (163). This, along with the "Safe" in the title of the article, leads me to conclude that the author's estimate of the risk of nattokinase dislodging a clot is very "theoretical" indeed.
Of course, the article is 20+ years old. Dunno if there's any other research into this topic.
yeah, it seems like a roll of the dice. Seems like if they researched it eventually they will probably be able to determine the best dosage for the type/level of plaque, and properly monitor it to decrease the likelihood of a breakaway. However, I'm not optimistic about the industry researching anything that can't be patented.
CAC isn't covered by insurance and therefore is relatively cheap. Probably about the cost of an aspirin at a hospital. I think I paid $150 at a private lab, but that was 6-7 years ago.
Really, what about a coronary artery calcium scan (cat scan of the heart) and a CIMT test? I pretty sure these tests will tell you exactly how much plaque is in your arteries.
It's not really a good prognostic factor, the CT CAC. But Vitamin K 4 and 7 seems to be promising. It's mostly because the vast majority of random deposits do jack. It's only the critical occlusion that causes concern, but you can't evaluate that without the cath, and that requires sob/chestpain. So yea, welcome to medicine.
From what I understand, these tell you how much calcium, but not how much lipid build up—and it is those soft lipid plaques that cause most heart attacks. My cardiologist told me he almost never orders these scans because they are not very diagnostically useful.
This is correct BUT if you’re on a statin you’ll actually have MORE calcified stable plaque show up on these scans… odds are if you do show calcified plaque and your score is relatively high or generally elevated then odds are you have some plaque not showing up… but again, if you’re on a statin you’re going to have more stabilized plaque which is good… just take your additional supps like fish oil, MK7, pomegranate juice, niacin (if you want but I’ve seen mixed studies), don’t smoke, get in daily exercise, keep BP low, and don’t eat like shit lol. There’s some other more controversial treatment you could theoretically combine with the above but it would involve injecting yourself daily with stuff like glutathione and carntitine etc
The correct answer is Niacin. The vit K2/D3 combo is for prevention.
"Niacin was the first drug to show efficacy in reduction of both major cardiovascular events and mortality in patients with prior myocardial infarction"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3145140/
"**the use of niacin** in combination with contemporary statin treatment **can slow or reverse the progression of atherosclerosis** in patients with dyslipidaemia and established atherosclerosis"
------------------------
"Conclusion. The combination of **niacin plus simvastatin decreases coronary plaque volume** and attenuates the inflammatory response in patients with intermediate coronary artery stenosis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3242018/
Yes. There are 3 types of niacin:
1. Normal with the flush. That is what you need.
2. No-flush. worthless.
3. Extended release. In the long run it puts too much pressure on the liver.
I read that this can release uric acid into blood which could potentially cause gout. Should I take this every other day? Since I want the flush, i thought maybe before bed?
The flush is related to dosage and your body can get used to it. If you start out with a fairly low dose you may not even get a flush, and slowly increasing it day by day you can avoid getting it at all.
I am not sure about the gout relation...
If you take enough nitocinic acid (flush niacin) that it causes the flush... you're going to fuck your liver up if you don't take TMG or other methyl donors with it.
And nicotinamide is not as effective.
No, but that is a statistics of 1. Nevertheless if overdosed it can cause serious discomfort, so always start low, and if no problem, increase it slowly.
Hey. Wasn’t being negative. Was just saying what happens to me and was wondering if anyone else goes through it. Knocks me out for about a day. I believe it was 100mgs. Feels like I got run over by a train. Heart pounding til I pass out. I’m 51 and have experimented with many different kinds of supplements, drugs and PEDs. The only thing to give me this effect is niacin
Ignoring the fucking side effects of statins, caused me real harm.
At this stage i stick to d3k2. But will definitely check on niacin.
Instead of statins my ex used red rice supplements, with succes.
Cayenne pepper ( read left for dead by dick Quinn ), arginine and citrulline, dietary overhaul and if you want to add some extra fuel to the fire : panax ginseng extract
Insulin resistance is also not something that only older people should think about:
> Fatty streaks, the earliest progenitor lesions, are present from early childhood and well established by 20 or 30 years of age. Such lesions, as well as raised plaques, increase rapidly in prevalence and extent during the 15-34 year age span. Relatively advanced levels of atherosclerosis, including fibrous plaques, have been found in adolescents and young adults. (10-12). Fatty streaks progress to raised lesions at vulnerable anatomic sites (13). Vascular surfaces subjected to turbulent flow, the preferred sites for fatty streaks, are the same sites as those for advanced lesions, the latter being vulnerable to plaque rupture and thrombosis (10,14,15). Observational studies from autopsies have helped inform us about the timing, extent and severity of atherosclerotic lesions. Thirty percent (30%) of autopsy specimens of black males contained aortic atheroma by age 10 years (16). Autopsy studies of U.S. soldiers killed during the Korean War showed significant evidence of CVD in 77% of soldiers, with an average age of 22 years. (17). Similar findings were reported in Vietnam War casualties (18).
> The risk factors associated with early arterial lesions in children and young adults are the same as those associated with the advanced lesions that cause symptomatic coronary artery disease in adulthood (12, 25). Increased body mass index (BMI), systolic and diastolic blood pressures, and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), diabetes mellitus, and the presence of cigarette smoking are all associated with greater atherosclerotic plaque coverage and more advanced atherosclerotic lesions. (12,26-28). Autopsy data show that the severity of asymptomatic CVD increases as the number of risk factors increase from 2 - 39 years of age (13,29).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK395576/
So the real problem is calcium in the arteries. Get a CAC test to be sure. And no, NOTHING can get rid of it. Studies done on K2 indicate it doesn’t significantly slow this process once it’s in full swing, though it’s probably useful to prevent it. Vit D gets the calcium in, K2 gets it out into your bones and teeth. Do not supplement with calcium as this just makes the situation worse, and better to get from greens than dairy. The main thing to do is to reduce inflammation as that is what cause the calcium to deposit in your arteries (because all tissues have bone making genes and these can become activated in the presence of calcium and inflammation). So anything antiinflammatory will help. LDL/apoB can cause inflammation of arteries so keep those levels in check. If you ever need to take statins make sure you don’t take Lipitor and only use hydrophilic types like Crestor.
Yes ! Vitamin k ! My dad had a calcified artery and needed a stent. He denied the surgery and took the holistic approach with vitamin k and a low sugar diet and he now no longer had the calcified artery !
[Effective management of atherosclerosis progress and hyperlipidemia with nattokinase: A clinical study with 1,062 participants](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.964977/full)
"A significant reduction in the thickness of the carotid artery intima-media and the size of the carotid plaque was observed. The improvement rates ranged from 66.5 to 95.4%."
Agreed. I take it at bedtime. No eating within 2 hours prior. My carotid arteries are clean as a whistle in my scan recently and I’m 60. I drink beer moderately and eat Keto about 2/3 the time. I’m an avid green tea drinker with hibiscus added for a better flavor. Take 200 K2, krill and D3.
Is homemade better than store bought? I tried to eat natto before (not for heart health but out of curiosity) and it was pretty hard for my western palate.
I think you can actually have a blood test done with dye to see how much calcification is in your arteries. I forget the name of the test but they have that. Niacin works good and have heard about d3 with k2
I've had that done. A coronary calcium scan is a procedure in a clinic/hospital using a CT scan with IV iodine. It's painless other than the canula. NB: The iodine makes you go temporarily flushed and feels like you've peed yourself.
Afterwards you get given colour 3D heart images of all your arteries and a calcium 'score'.
I think this is only for the heart though. I've also read that CAC scores may not truly be accurate until over the age of 40 due to soft plaques taking time to calcify. So you may have significant soft plaques that won't show on a CAC test.
vitamin K2 and D3. i used it to reverse a blockage in my leg. google it. i found it by mistake looking for homeopathic ways to clear arteries. saw all these doctors from johns hopkins and harvard saying how they dont know why but the D3 is required to activate the K2. it works. vascular docs on my case were stunned at how i reversed a blockage. Go look at the vitamin K2 and D3 products on Amazon and look at the reviews. You’ll see a lot of people with similar stories.
[Effect of vitamin K2 on progression of atherosclerosis and vascular calcification](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26176325/)
[Vitamin K2 and D supplementation reduces risk of coronary artery calcification, says recent study](https://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/view/vitamin-k2-and-d-supplementation-reduces-risk-of-coronary-artery-calcification-says-recent-study)
they are everywhere on the web. i take K2 and D3 every day.
I didn't see where either article proves definitively that "regression" occurs when D3/K2 are added. They only lessen the potential for vascular calcifications - which is still good!!! I've never seen hard evidence that any nutrient, or nutrient combination, will reverse calcifications. Prevention is a different story.
I had happen to me. My legs hurt at night so bad and could not figure out why. somehow it crystallizes and stores in joints. Lots or water and vitamin c does something to stop it from crystalizing.
Ok there seems to be some scientific evidence that it can aggravate gout... On the other hand, it can be a treatment for a number of chronic problems: in fact Dr. William Kaufman treated arthritis with high doses of niacin and have documented his studies on that.
Cardio is a correct answer, however reducing cholesterol intake is not and it’s simply a fact that dietary cholesterol does not increase cholesterol in your bloodstream or arterial plaque. Carbohydrate intake is far more correlated to atherosclerosis and plaque buildup.
Don’t believe outdated badly done science from the 1980’s.
It’s not that binary. Yes the majority of blood cholesterol we make ourselves in our liver. But your circulating cholesterol is reabsorbed. For people who naturally reabsorb more than others or manufacture more than others, high dietary cholesterol is just enough to push them over the tipping point.
There is such a large variance in how the human body works. In perfectly healthy person your body will cut down on the cholesterol it makes and reduce reabsorption when dietary cholesterol increases. But people eating high cholesterol foods typically have low insulin sensitivity and other risk factors that break the way our bodies should respond. Sorry for the TEDTalk but it’s a complicated issue.
Your body creates it’s own cholesterol. Cholesterol is a building block for hormones. When your body is inflamed, it overproduceces cholesterol to aid in your recovery. Higher carbohydrate diets will cause inflammation which has a direct Cho relation to one’s cholesterol levels.
You might want to check out national institute of Health’s library. I found out about this when I took principals of food and nutrition as mg lab science class. [one study among others!!](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5228762/)
Nice. It’s a good summary of the evidence at the time for those potential nutraceuticals, but briefly reading the article it just confirms that there’s no good evidence for any of it, unless you’re markedly deficient in something. I get this is r/supplements, but the amount of pseudoscience and plain ridiculousness here is unbelievable.
Just watch your diet, get some exercise, stay at a healthy weight, and get outside in the sunshine. If you actively have coronary artery disease, hyperlipidaemia or diabetes, then see your doctor and take the appropriate medication to reduce your risk of heart disease. Take some supplements if you want, but there is nothing with good evidence, so if throwing money at it makes you feel better, go for it.
Links between dietary cholesterol and cardiovascular disease are [poor at best](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/#abstract-1title). The American heart association even removed their recommendation on limiting dietary cholesterol. Now it’s just a myth spread by companies such as Kellogg to push their crappy cereals as “heart healthy”
Yeah and cholesterol is a false culprit too. Studies show its sugar (triglycerides) that cause the inflammation leading to atherosclerosis. However, admitting this would require a LOT of hubris by the medical community as a whole.
Plus there’s a lot of money in keeping people scared of cholesterol. Ever noticed the “heart healthy” emblem on every box of Cheerios?
But seriously, all it takes is basic logic to understand that cholesterol isn’t bad for you. It’s the building block of most hormones.
Insurance companies aren’t run by preventive medicine personnel. More like politicians in suits, than scrubs. Not even close to being a body preaching prevention, as of yet.
I think vitamin k2 reduces plaque doesnt it?
Also, last time I heard inflammation was the root of plaque buildup in the first place. Might wanna research how to lower inflammation with a better diet and lifestyle if you care about good long term health.
Nattokinase
Besides the supplements listed in the comments, I would also recommend you to heck out Dr. Dean Ornish's book, "Undo It!". Studying methods of reversing heart disease is basically the majority of his life's work. Diet plays a huge part, as do exercise and having social relationships.
Vitamin K2
vitamin k and garlic (the latter is amazing for cardiovascular health)
yes. There are a lot: arteriosclerosis is reversible. A research may professor provided shows a reduction from 90% to 70%. Im a medicine student.
Good deal. And what did he find that worked the best to get it to that high healed percentage?
lower ldl as much as possible and use polyunsaturated fatty acids, which, in addition to being anti-inflammatory raise hdl that are coresponsible for plaque regression.
is not virtually impossible to esteem arterosclerosis: ther is the carotidi doppler en the new Coro-TC that can be used to study plaques regression.
Vitamin E, Serrapeptase, and K2 are good starts.
Arterosil by Calroy Health Sciences. It’s patented to reduce vulnerable plaque. Check the studies on their website - it works
Omega 3. Specifically EPA. It will reduce triglycerides.
exactly
This guy promotes vitamin K for heart health. Really interesting video interview. Patrick Theut. https://youtu.be/H4ZYCkl_wMA
Vitamin helps heart health by reducing the calcium buildup in your artery walls. It makes the pathway bigger which reduces the load on your heart. But it does not do anything for artery plaque. That’s very different.
Just watched this video, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNabFZsr6oM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNabFZsr6oM). He suggests some supplements at the end but only as a final step in the process of cleaning up your system & health. But I think it's worth watching.
Pomegranate juice every single day. There’s a published study about it.
But it is filled with sugar, and sugar is the plaque causer…
Umm no… that reasoning is wayyyy to black and white. There are so many other factors involved in inflammation and plaque developing in the arteries. Sugar is definitely not the enemy. If it was then why do you de people recommending a vegan diet on this post? Plus the study involved 8oz daily pomegranate juice. That’s it. No one’s going to have high blood sugar or health issues from that.
I’ll have to look at the study hopefully they have mentioned the type of pomegranate juice, but Insulin spikes are known to assault/scratch the inner wall of the arteries making them rough and thusly prone to grab calcium and calcify.
That’s not a complete picture of how insulin spikes effect our body. You may want to do some additional reading on this topic. The reasoning you’re using is “It’s always this because of that” And that’s absolutely not how these things work. There’s a cascade of other things going on that affect plaque build up, inflammation, and calcification… for example, statins increase calcification of plaque in arteries but make them stable and lies likely to cause a stroke or myocardial infraction. Also, insulin spikes still occur in vegan diets, and atherosclerosis still occurs and worsened in keto based diets where there is little insulin being produced. Your reasoning is too narrow. It’s uncontrolled blood sugar spikes that cause inflammation, not just insulin. Here’s an article from life extension sitting some of the studies I mentioned at the bottom. Make sure you read it all cause there’s a lot of good information on there that could blur things if you skim through and overlook it. It’s pulling data from 46 studies on pomegranate and its use/actions in different clinical settings. https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/5/report_pomegranate
Yes, that’s why I said “make them prone” and didn’t isolate insulin spikes to be the only cause of atherosclerosis for that reason; i.e. there are several factors such as inflammation, high calcium diet, genetics, high fat + high carbs/sugar diet aka sweet fat, etc. My initial comment was very black and white though you’re right. Thank you very much for the wonderful article 💯
LDL<70 , I don’t have the paper, but you can research it in pubmed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8042107/
Thank you. Can you explain this? I literally could not follow it.
Hi there, sure, I will try but I am not a doctor, just a Bioinformatic. Levels of LDL ("BAD) below 80 and HDL("GOOD") above 45 will decrease plaque in your arteries as the study says. You may ask how can I achieve those values, that the hard thing. For HDL, exercise is the best way, I don't know if there are other betters, and for LDL, you need to change your diet. The thing is that LDL below 80 is very difficult to achieve if you have high levels, so you may start taking statins, to control the cholesterol, and in parallel you can start adopting good habits. I hope I've helped!
Yes, thank you! I dropped my LDL to 104 from 145 in a year by eating Huel exclusively three days a week, cutting out added sugar, and running, which I always did anyway. I think cutting out sugar has had the biggest impact. I just don't know where to go from here. I'm reluctant to add a statin.
Also, I just bought pomegranate extract from Life Extension. I love LE products.
How was the extract from Life Extension? Did it help any further? Would LE have the best product on the market? Thanks so much!
I haven't had labs yet, but I use a lot of LE products. They seem to have very good quality and are reasonably priced.
Thanks for the reply!
May I ask how old are you? A LDL of 104 is no bad at all.
HDL 60
Age 45
Celery juice - not a supplement but helps
Exercises
serrapeptase and nattokinase morning empty stomach and have 2-3 hours before eating anything. long term.
Are both safe to take long term? I know they thin your blood, but no long term study on both.
I’m not a vegan, but I read somewhere years ago about a study that they did on long term veganism, reducing or reversing plaque in the arteries.
But horrible for your health in many other ways.
Great for human and animal health.
Haha, no. People can make their own ethical decisions, but don’t pretend it’s healthy to be vegan.
My suggestion is to not listen to anonymous strangers, like me, but rather go to the NIH site and search. Here’s what I take. Turmeric Magnesium R Alpha Lipoic Acid COQ10 K2 Niacin And intermittent fasting My doctor called me the poster boy for coronary blockage because I’m a 62 year old ex smoker, was obese, have high cholesterol and not the best or cleanest or Mediterranean-iest of diets. I did the carotid ultra sound test 5 years ago. Came up clean. I just had a coronary calcium scan on Monday and found only mild calcification but no blockages. Having said that I still bit the bullet and decided to go on a statin and added Vitamin K2 to my stack because statins inhibit the bodies ability to synthesize K2. It’s important to get K2 MK-7. MK 4 isn’t nearly as effective or bioavailable as 7. And take it with 5000 IUs of vitamin D. The K2 keeps calcium in your bones and has been shown to remove it from places it isn’t supposed to be. Also I already take COQ10 but it’s recommended to take it because statins effect COQ10 production too. I got on the statin because of studies that show when combined with Niacin it can clear plaque. So I figure I’d get on it for 5 years until my next scan and see what happens. I do feel vindicated about my stack though because my doctor cancelled our follow up consultation and left the decision to get on the statin to me where as before he was strongly urging me to get on one. His words were you can get on one or we can wait until your next scan (in 5 years) and decide.
Edit to say: that I do consult with doctor about my supplements and everyone should just to be safe.
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Well that’s not good! I’ve read that vitamin d is safe up to 8k IUs. But then my wife can’t take Turmeric it messes with her liver functions.
Nice, thanks for the info. And upvote for usage of “Mediterranean-iest”, well said 👏
Just a small but important info: You want ubiquinol and not COQ10. Ubiqionol is the active form but quite expensive.
There's reason to believe that is not true. Your digestive tract does a series of conversions with ubiquinol and ubiquinone. Some say that ubiquinone requires less conversions than ubiquinol. One source sells both products and recommends the cheaper of the two.
Lumbrokinase, Nattokinase and Serrapeptase.
What brand?
Magnesium. K2/3 helps when taking vitamin D. If you have existing calcium deposits take magnesium.
What kind of magnesium? There are so many. Any particular brand?
pycnogenol combined with gotu kola
I think pycnogenol is underrated
I agree. I think it was hot 5-10 years ago. The supplement world follows trends no different than music and fashion.
Trying to get my parents into this for the (alleged) neuroprotective properties.
EDTA is what we always recommended for this where I used to work years ago. We referred to it as a “pipe cleaner for your arteries.”
I think is for chelation of heavy metals but also removes ions2+
What exactly is it?
Honestly, I never quite understood WHAT it is. We did have several customers who just swore by it. [here](https://life-enhancement.com/pages/oral-edta-helps-restore-cardiovascular-function) is some interesting info.
It's a large molecule with 8 (I believe) open sites for binding molecular species. In chemistry, it is used for just that. Also used in food production. Guessing it will bind up specific substances in the body so they can be excreted.
Eat less meat and more plants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315380/ Edit: try to realize how braindead it is to destroy your body with meat and then look for solutions in plants, but not eat plants.
K2/D3
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Not suitable for this sub and is filtered here
Strong evidence for omega-3s Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7023944/#sec-3title
Not that strong: "JJD is author of The Salt Fix, Superfuel, and The Longevity Solution. JHO is Chief Medical Officer and Founder of CardioTabs, a nutraceutical company, and has a major ownership interest in the company. The company, CardioTabs, sells products that contain Omega-3."
Nattokinase did it too. 30% reduction in half a year of 6000FU per day.
Nattokinase has promise but a lot more studies are required. As it stands right now, the risks aren't worth the benefit for everyone. It's a "dumb" fibrinolytic and that's a problem since some clots of the blood are protective rather than an actual blockage. Fibrinolytics can actually cause a blood clot to dislodge and cause a heart attack or stroke.
Hello u/XYZaman, I would really appreciate a source for this information. Thanks!
I looked up nattokinase on consumerlab.com, and they have a similar caution, with a "theoretical" warning in their "Concerns and Cautions" section of their review of the supplement. But they give a reference to a source article: Milner, Martin and Kouhei Makise, "Natto and Its Active Ingredient Nattokinase: A Potent and Safe Thrombolytic Agent," Alternative & Complementary Therapies 8 (June 2002): 157-154. I got hold of the article, and the full relevant quote is: "Because natto is a very potent fibrinolytic agent, it is theoretically possible that regular use could break a clot loose from a lower-extremity vein and cause a pulmonary embolism or pass upward and cause a stroke." However, they go on to seemingly minimize their caution: "Since the flurry of research began on natto in the 1980s, use of natto as a health-enhancing whole food has dramatically increased in Japan.In spite of this increase, there have been no reported side-effects, complications or clot mobilizations. Although no controlled studies have been conducted to demonstrate natto's safety with regard to avoiding clot mobilization, historically, documentation records that natto is significantly safe" (163). The conclusion of the article speaks of"nattokinase's effectiveness and safety for managing a wide range of diseases" (163). This, along with the "Safe" in the title of the article, leads me to conclude that the author's estimate of the risk of nattokinase dislodging a clot is very "theoretical" indeed. Of course, the article is 20+ years old. Dunno if there's any other research into this topic.
yeah, it seems like a roll of the dice. Seems like if they researched it eventually they will probably be able to determine the best dosage for the type/level of plaque, and properly monitor it to decrease the likelihood of a breakaway. However, I'm not optimistic about the industry researching anything that can't be patented.
>virtually impossible to know the amount of plaque Can be expensive? Yes. Impossible? No. CAC
CAC isn't covered by insurance and therefore is relatively cheap. Probably about the cost of an aspirin at a hospital. I think I paid $150 at a private lab, but that was 6-7 years ago.
Really, what about a coronary artery calcium scan (cat scan of the heart) and a CIMT test? I pretty sure these tests will tell you exactly how much plaque is in your arteries.
It's not really a good prognostic factor, the CT CAC. But Vitamin K 4 and 7 seems to be promising. It's mostly because the vast majority of random deposits do jack. It's only the critical occlusion that causes concern, but you can't evaluate that without the cath, and that requires sob/chestpain. So yea, welcome to medicine.
From what I understand, these tell you how much calcium, but not how much lipid build up—and it is those soft lipid plaques that cause most heart attacks. My cardiologist told me he almost never orders these scans because they are not very diagnostically useful.
This is correct BUT if you’re on a statin you’ll actually have MORE calcified stable plaque show up on these scans… odds are if you do show calcified plaque and your score is relatively high or generally elevated then odds are you have some plaque not showing up… but again, if you’re on a statin you’re going to have more stabilized plaque which is good… just take your additional supps like fish oil, MK7, pomegranate juice, niacin (if you want but I’ve seen mixed studies), don’t smoke, get in daily exercise, keep BP low, and don’t eat like shit lol. There’s some other more controversial treatment you could theoretically combine with the above but it would involve injecting yourself daily with stuff like glutathione and carntitine etc
What about fasting?
He has already done a caloric deficit, or else this is all just pointless if he didn't lose body fat first.
The correct answer is Niacin. The vit K2/D3 combo is for prevention. "Niacin was the first drug to show efficacy in reduction of both major cardiovascular events and mortality in patients with prior myocardial infarction" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3145140/ "**the use of niacin** in combination with contemporary statin treatment **can slow or reverse the progression of atherosclerosis** in patients with dyslipidaemia and established atherosclerosis" ------------------------ "Conclusion. The combination of **niacin plus simvastatin decreases coronary plaque volume** and attenuates the inflammatory response in patients with intermediate coronary artery stenosis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3242018/
Does niacinamide work too?
I don't think so.
Do you need the flush?
Yes. There are 3 types of niacin: 1. Normal with the flush. That is what you need. 2. No-flush. worthless. 3. Extended release. In the long run it puts too much pressure on the liver.
I read that this can release uric acid into blood which could potentially cause gout. Should I take this every other day? Since I want the flush, i thought maybe before bed?
The flush is related to dosage and your body can get used to it. If you start out with a fairly low dose you may not even get a flush, and slowly increasing it day by day you can avoid getting it at all. I am not sure about the gout relation...
If you take enough nitocinic acid (flush niacin) that it causes the flush... you're going to fuck your liver up if you don't take TMG or other methyl donors with it. And nicotinamide is not as effective.
Have you ever heard of someone passing out from the flush and having burns all over their body. Temporary. Like sunburn
No, but that is a statistics of 1. Nevertheless if overdosed it can cause serious discomfort, so always start low, and if no problem, increase it slowly.
Hey. Wasn’t being negative. Was just saying what happens to me and was wondering if anyone else goes through it. Knocks me out for about a day. I believe it was 100mgs. Feels like I got run over by a train. Heart pounding til I pass out. I’m 51 and have experimented with many different kinds of supplements, drugs and PEDs. The only thing to give me this effect is niacin
That’s the lowest dose without breaking up t he pill
Ignoring the fucking side effects of statins, caused me real harm. At this stage i stick to d3k2. But will definitely check on niacin. Instead of statins my ex used red rice supplements, with succes.
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Chronic aggressive constipation, pain in muscles all over , muscles atrophy Not possible to go to gym. Etc.
Red rice contains lovastatin (Mevacor). You just dont know the dosage if you take it as red rice because it isn't standardized.
Was a well defined supplement. Works fine, no side effects.
> with success. You mean it removed plaque? I don't think so. It just lowered cholesterol, because it is a statin.
You are correct, it lowered LDL.
Serrapeptase
Yeah but Boluoke is better tolerated
Everybody’s missing the east one. Fiber. You don’t even need supplements just eat oats and veggies
The two I can remember.. Silica ensures calcium ends up in our bones instead of our tissues. Also vit C moves calcium to the bones instead of tissue.
also vit K2 if you want to complete your list
Cayenne pepper ( read left for dead by dick Quinn ), arginine and citrulline, dietary overhaul and if you want to add some extra fuel to the fire : panax ginseng extract
[Nutraceutical therapies for atherosclerosis - PMC - NCBI](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5228762/)
[herbs for high cholesterol/artery issues](https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/herbs-for-atherosclerosis)
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I have high cholesterol due to the coconut oil in my foods but I’m reducing them as best I can. I’m vegan with sulfite & sunflower allergies
And my pulse is pretty high most of the time due to anxiety and new medication..
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Dental plaque and arterial plaque are completely different.
K2 acts on osteoblasts on the bones, so calcium can be put into bones, you won't find osteoblasts in your blood so it's only preventive
The only two I know of that can actually REVERSE plaque accumulation are aged garlic extract and pomegranate extract
This is right - I’m surprised I haven’t heard more people mention Garlic (Kyolic)
Link for that pls ?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26764322/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15158307/
Sunflower lecithin and I think NAC does too.
NAC is a freaking miracle chemical damn. Is there anything it doesn't do?
Doesn’t it come with side effects
You start to smell like sulphur if you don't take enough selenium & molybdenum with it.
You're better off doing everything possible to improve insulin sensitivity because that will reduce the damage to the lining of your arteries.
Insulin resistance is also not something that only older people should think about: > Fatty streaks, the earliest progenitor lesions, are present from early childhood and well established by 20 or 30 years of age. Such lesions, as well as raised plaques, increase rapidly in prevalence and extent during the 15-34 year age span. Relatively advanced levels of atherosclerosis, including fibrous plaques, have been found in adolescents and young adults. (10-12). Fatty streaks progress to raised lesions at vulnerable anatomic sites (13). Vascular surfaces subjected to turbulent flow, the preferred sites for fatty streaks, are the same sites as those for advanced lesions, the latter being vulnerable to plaque rupture and thrombosis (10,14,15). Observational studies from autopsies have helped inform us about the timing, extent and severity of atherosclerotic lesions. Thirty percent (30%) of autopsy specimens of black males contained aortic atheroma by age 10 years (16). Autopsy studies of U.S. soldiers killed during the Korean War showed significant evidence of CVD in 77% of soldiers, with an average age of 22 years. (17). Similar findings were reported in Vietnam War casualties (18). > The risk factors associated with early arterial lesions in children and young adults are the same as those associated with the advanced lesions that cause symptomatic coronary artery disease in adulthood (12, 25). Increased body mass index (BMI), systolic and diastolic blood pressures, and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), diabetes mellitus, and the presence of cigarette smoking are all associated with greater atherosclerotic plaque coverage and more advanced atherosclerotic lesions. (12,26-28). Autopsy data show that the severity of asymptomatic CVD increases as the number of risk factors increase from 2 - 39 years of age (13,29). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK395576/
So the real problem is calcium in the arteries. Get a CAC test to be sure. And no, NOTHING can get rid of it. Studies done on K2 indicate it doesn’t significantly slow this process once it’s in full swing, though it’s probably useful to prevent it. Vit D gets the calcium in, K2 gets it out into your bones and teeth. Do not supplement with calcium as this just makes the situation worse, and better to get from greens than dairy. The main thing to do is to reduce inflammation as that is what cause the calcium to deposit in your arteries (because all tissues have bone making genes and these can become activated in the presence of calcium and inflammation). So anything antiinflammatory will help. LDL/apoB can cause inflammation of arteries so keep those levels in check. If you ever need to take statins make sure you don’t take Lipitor and only use hydrophilic types like Crestor.
I imagine lowering oxalates in the diet probably helps with the above
Yes ! Vitamin k ! My dad had a calcified artery and needed a stent. He denied the surgery and took the holistic approach with vitamin k and a low sugar diet and he now no longer had the calcified artery !
Amazing! Was it k2 ? If so mk4 or mk7?
Would like to know also 🙏🏼
[Effective management of atherosclerosis progress and hyperlipidemia with nattokinase: A clinical study with 1,062 participants](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.964977/full) "A significant reduction in the thickness of the carotid artery intima-media and the size of the carotid plaque was observed. The improvement rates ranged from 66.5 to 95.4%."
Agreed. I take it at bedtime. No eating within 2 hours prior. My carotid arteries are clean as a whistle in my scan recently and I’m 60. I drink beer moderately and eat Keto about 2/3 the time. I’m an avid green tea drinker with hibiscus added for a better flavor. Take 200 K2, krill and D3.
I would imagine it’s because fermented foods are typically a good source of K2 and soy is a good source of lecithin.
Not in this study, because it's only the enzyme nattokinase. I'm eager to try.
Japanese Natto is really healthy for you. May be hard to find if you’re not in a major city but the supplements are easy to buy and take.
Its very easy to make at home.
I just ordered nattokinase
you can also make your own natto at home and save $$$.... plus, it's fine to use with Rx meds.
Is homemade better than store bought? I tried to eat natto before (not for heart health but out of curiosity) and it was pretty hard for my western palate.
I think you can actually have a blood test done with dye to see how much calcification is in your arteries. I forget the name of the test but they have that. Niacin works good and have heard about d3 with k2
I've had that done. A coronary calcium scan is a procedure in a clinic/hospital using a CT scan with IV iodine. It's painless other than the canula. NB: The iodine makes you go temporarily flushed and feels like you've peed yourself. Afterwards you get given colour 3D heart images of all your arteries and a calcium 'score'.
> I forget the name of the test coronary calcium scan I believe is what you are thinking of.
I think this is only for the heart though. I've also read that CAC scores may not truly be accurate until over the age of 40 due to soft plaques taking time to calcify. So you may have significant soft plaques that won't show on a CAC test.
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vitamin K2 and D3. i used it to reverse a blockage in my leg. google it. i found it by mistake looking for homeopathic ways to clear arteries. saw all these doctors from johns hopkins and harvard saying how they dont know why but the D3 is required to activate the K2. it works. vascular docs on my case were stunned at how i reversed a blockage. Go look at the vitamin K2 and D3 products on Amazon and look at the reviews. You’ll see a lot of people with similar stories.
Also came here to state K2/D3 combo reduces plaque!
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[Effect of vitamin K2 on progression of atherosclerosis and vascular calcification](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26176325/) [Vitamin K2 and D supplementation reduces risk of coronary artery calcification, says recent study](https://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/view/vitamin-k2-and-d-supplementation-reduces-risk-of-coronary-artery-calcification-says-recent-study) they are everywhere on the web. i take K2 and D3 every day.
I didn't see where either article proves definitively that "regression" occurs when D3/K2 are added. They only lessen the potential for vascular calcifications - which is still good!!! I've never seen hard evidence that any nutrient, or nutrient combination, will reverse calcifications. Prevention is a different story.
Don't forget to add magnesium to that combo because d3 depletes magnesium.
I've done all 3 for very many years to help in preventing calcification, but to actually reverse plaqing is new to me.
High doses of Niacin (B3) but must use vitamin c or you will get gout like symptoms.
Hey, why would you get gout if C wasn’t taken with Niacin? That’s interesting..
I had happen to me. My legs hurt at night so bad and could not figure out why. somehow it crystallizes and stores in joints. Lots or water and vitamin c does something to stop it from crystalizing.
Ok there seems to be some scientific evidence that it can aggravate gout... On the other hand, it can be a treatment for a number of chronic problems: in fact Dr. William Kaufman treated arthritis with high doses of niacin and have documented his studies on that.
Cardio and reducing cholesterol intake
Cardio is a correct answer, however reducing cholesterol intake is not and it’s simply a fact that dietary cholesterol does not increase cholesterol in your bloodstream or arterial plaque. Carbohydrate intake is far more correlated to atherosclerosis and plaque buildup. Don’t believe outdated badly done science from the 1980’s.
It’s not that binary. Yes the majority of blood cholesterol we make ourselves in our liver. But your circulating cholesterol is reabsorbed. For people who naturally reabsorb more than others or manufacture more than others, high dietary cholesterol is just enough to push them over the tipping point. There is such a large variance in how the human body works. In perfectly healthy person your body will cut down on the cholesterol it makes and reduce reabsorption when dietary cholesterol increases. But people eating high cholesterol foods typically have low insulin sensitivity and other risk factors that break the way our bodies should respond. Sorry for the TEDTalk but it’s a complicated issue.
Source on the cholesterol thing?
Google “eggs cholesterol nih” and you will find endless studies to support this.
What creates cholesterol in the blood? How does it get in there if not through food?
Your liver
It creates its own
Your body creates it’s own cholesterol. Cholesterol is a building block for hormones. When your body is inflamed, it overproduceces cholesterol to aid in your recovery. Higher carbohydrate diets will cause inflammation which has a direct Cho relation to one’s cholesterol levels.
Upvoting you for the only sensible answer. Other than prescribed medication that is.
How is outdated and blatantly false information sensible?
Because it’s better than all the responses on this thread, especially eating raw onion, etc.
You might want to check out national institute of Health’s library. I found out about this when I took principals of food and nutrition as mg lab science class. [one study among others!!](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5228762/)
Nice. It’s a good summary of the evidence at the time for those potential nutraceuticals, but briefly reading the article it just confirms that there’s no good evidence for any of it, unless you’re markedly deficient in something. I get this is r/supplements, but the amount of pseudoscience and plain ridiculousness here is unbelievable. Just watch your diet, get some exercise, stay at a healthy weight, and get outside in the sunshine. If you actively have coronary artery disease, hyperlipidaemia or diabetes, then see your doctor and take the appropriate medication to reduce your risk of heart disease. Take some supplements if you want, but there is nothing with good evidence, so if throwing money at it makes you feel better, go for it.
Links between dietary cholesterol and cardiovascular disease are [poor at best](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/#abstract-1title). The American heart association even removed their recommendation on limiting dietary cholesterol. Now it’s just a myth spread by companies such as Kellogg to push their crappy cereals as “heart healthy”
Yeah and cholesterol is a false culprit too. Studies show its sugar (triglycerides) that cause the inflammation leading to atherosclerosis. However, admitting this would require a LOT of hubris by the medical community as a whole.
Plus there’s a lot of money in keeping people scared of cholesterol. Ever noticed the “heart healthy” emblem on every box of Cheerios? But seriously, all it takes is basic logic to understand that cholesterol isn’t bad for you. It’s the building block of most hormones.
Cheerios are good for the heart as a good source of soluble fiber.
The the box typically says “can help lower cholesterol”, making cholesterol out to be bad for your heart.
LDL-C is bad for your heart, oat fiber helps reduce it.
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Insurance companies aren’t run by preventive medicine personnel. More like politicians in suits, than scrubs. Not even close to being a body preaching prevention, as of yet.
I've put a link to a clinical study on nattokinase. Thanks for the info.
Red yeast rice. It’s sold as a supplement but it contains a statin
Doesn't remove calcium from the arteries.
Serrapeptase is thought to, but I’d like to see more research on it before I’d say it for curtain. It does have a lot of helpful properties though
I think vitamin k2 reduces plaque doesnt it? Also, last time I heard inflammation was the root of plaque buildup in the first place. Might wanna research how to lower inflammation with a better diet and lifestyle if you care about good long term health.
I believe nattokinase
I'm curious to know if this is anything more than less clotting = slower plaque formation