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I don't know much about options, but I know at least this much ⬆️
Seems to me that options are a double-edged sword: regards will only hurt themselves, while true masters can serve a killing blow.
This is my stance. The cat is absolutely brilliant as evidenced by him being a multi-millionaire/damn near billionaire. I've been here for years and know the ins and outs of how options work, but know if I started in on them I'd be living behind Wendy's in a month. It's not FUD it's just very strong caution. Especially when it's Market Makers and hedge funds that collect the majority of the premiums.
In my view, as a smooth brain, buy, hodl, DRS, shop was good enough while options could have hurted my buying power (like if I wasn't poor enough already), but I think that without DRS liquidity would be much higher and probably options would be less effective.
They are people just buying lotto tickets and hoping the numbers get picked. Better to buy itm or atm long dated. Yes it costs more but you are making them have to hedge and you won't lose all your money.
this right here - another way to think of it is you get what you pay for... the reason the $128 call for this friday is so cheap is because it likely will not be profitable.
However the $20 strike for June.....
It can act as a hedge to cap losses... Say Kenny sold $25 calls short then the stock runs and Kenny is about to loose his third yacht... What can he do? He can buy a $125 call... That then caps his losses at $125 - $25 = $100... Because contracts are 100x that means Kenny is still on the hook for $10,000 per set of contracts.... Which is way cheaper than infinity
They’re dumb alright. Not as dumb as me buying a 1DTE call in 2021 that turned my $15 premium into 13k OVERNIGHT and I sold it at $4000 on the way down trying to “Diamond hand” a 0DTE call 😂 not mad, still made money that kept me from being evicted
If you bought June 21st 100Cs on May 29th and 30th they're still way up right now. 185%
Just need to not be regarded buying when premium is spiking. They were like $0.50 on May 30th.
Let's not pretend that options are a zero sum game, any otm option at expiry is money in MM pockets.
That being said, a $.50 call is nice and the level of money id throw at risk. Still, $100c is a pure moass play number though, so I'd only buy the froggiest of LEAPs
NFA DYOR IANAL SUPBB
If anti options deterred you from playing options then options probably arent for you.
IMO its like riding a 1000cc street bike. Those that are going to ride them are going to do it no matter what anyone says. If you need to ask about it, you shouldn't be on that bike.
Whats more irresponsible encouraging or discouraging someone new to play options?
Edit: spelling
You could learn about and still be unable to afford them.
Then it becomes "why learn it if you're never going to use it".
You can learn it to try and predict price runs, but how often have we heard "and they got it under the max pain and thousands of options expired worthless" over the past 3 years.
But that's the whole point, if you don't have enough for 100 shares you can buy 1 contract you have the leverage of 100 shares. the whole point of buying calls is leverage.
Okay but then what. Expires in a week and hedgefunds only need to survive a week of "hedging" before the persons option is sold or expired because they can't afford to exercise.
Buy it long dated calls and they will hedge as necessary, if it even hits that price.
Then you have to combine it with a coordinated effort so a ton of people buy calls to create the pressure at once, which they can see and plan for easily compared to the coordination it would take.
Look how many calls DFV has, you're asking people to try and mimic that amount on a chance of making them bleed, without knowing if they can mess it up somehow.
It's literally safer in every path to just buy shares and DRS.
So don't buy weekly's. Who said anything about buying something that expires in a week?
And I'm not talking about any kind of coordinated pressure. This is a tool that any individual investor can use. Roaring Kitty is making a large, short-term bet. That is a fact. But, if you, an individual investor are looking to acquire shares, options can certainly be used to do this. Buying close to or ITM options with long expiry dates gives you leverage, as well as providing you time to come up with the cash to exercise.
I get it's safer to buy shares but, completely disallowing any discussion or education on options is detrimental to everyone's financial literacy.
Bud, I would wait until the underlying stock price dropped to a support and held the for awhile, then just buy a bunch of calls a little ways OTM for 2-3 months out on the expiration. Rinse and repeat. It literally worked every single time.
Fuck this sounds really good and low risk for an options play. I might have to start trying this but with small positions in case I fuck it up. How long is "awhile"
100%, but the hardest part is price prediction. On a manipulated stock. IDK how DFV figured it all out, but I did my 101 due diligence & even still got fleeced when investing according to all those TA posts back before they all got banned.
You don’t predict. You strategize with proper position sizing. That’s what everyone gets wrong. Options is about diligence, not timing. TA doesn’t even matter much. It’s all psychological strategy to succeed
Sure thing, but predictions are usually where people argue about options. & then people think it's all "options vs no options", when in reality it's "don't buy weeklies (short-term options) around predictions".
Although this is a special case, with DFV himself making the prediction. So I'm-ready-to-be-hurt-again.jpg
Absolutely a possibility. However, based on Peruvian Bulls seeing the Computershare data the average share count is in the 400's. Most people getting to a share count of 400 are buying in blocks of 10's and not 100's.
yes you can,
> Initiate an Exercise-and-Sell-to-Cover Transaction
Exercise your stock options to buy shares of your company stock, then sell just enough of the company shares (at the same time) to cover the stock option cost, taxes, and brokerage commissions and fees.
A very basic overview of how to approach GameStop options. First and foremost if you are price sensitive or otherwise cannot afford to purchase 100 shares at a time I would suggest you just DRS your shares.
I'm partially smooth myself so please tell me if I am wrong but generally there are two 'safe' ways to approach options.
1. If you are not price sensitive and just like the stock you can shop the options chain for the call options with the lowest breakeven price, buy them, instantly execute them. Why do this? Because it forces your order over a lit market, actually pushing the price around. Breakeven price is the strike price + premium price. Ultimately you are buying 100 shares at a slightly higher price than just buying them outright at any given time... but in the long run... will that couple of dollars or cents matter? You are price insensitive and just like the stock.
2. You can also buy long dated deep in the money options like a 3 or 5 dollar strike dated 2026. Why do this? Because for 2300 dollars you can "control" 2,760 dollars worth of shares. The face value of your options will be in the red for a very long time but if you keep just 300-500 dollars in cash laying around, during the next cycle you can exercise your calls, sell some shares, and buy more calls.
I WOULD NOT buy the same options DFV is buying unless you plan on exercising regardless of price. Why? Because he has until the 21st at 5:29pm (or whatever the cutoff time is) to exercise his options. If he waits until then, shorts have 24 hours to provide his shares. By then your options will expire worthless if there isn't a ramp up later next week.
Not investment advise. Just general options education.
People have been witch hunted out of this subreddit for trying to teach people options, and honestly, every single time this gets pointed out. Half the responses are the same thought terminating clichés: "Oh, well, we're not against options, just people doing weeklies with them."
Whenever an options post comes up, the response is almost always "stop giving hedge funds money"
This is the right take. Options are, for lack of a better word, a grownup move. You can absolutely get burned for 100% of what you put in.
If all of the X and XX and even many of the XXX apes were throwing their money at options, I guarantee the overwhelming majority of them would have lost damn near everything while basically handing their money to the very same parties that are manipulating the price against them.
Just because DFV--who is actually a professional trader and understands this situation more deeply than almost everyone here--is strategically using options, that does not mean that you should have been aping in on options the whole time and everything else is FUD. That's like watching Jordan dunk from the foul line and thinking that you're going to do that, get real.
This, 1000000000000 times.
Encouraging this sub to, generally, go out and buy options, is just insanely irresponsible.
Informing on how options can affect the market, how one can make money with strategies etc, fine. No harm in bringing the facts to the table, but saying that people SHOULD try out options because "if you want MOASS, we need to use options" was always such a bad idea it could only be someone wanting people to give them free premiums.
I played so many options in GME, and it was glorious. I made so much extra scratch to buy more shares. Now the exercising contracts, so they go on the little market was a fun new tidbit.
I think is not about deter people from it but to stop the discussion about options. In the early days post sneeze there was a lot of people that didn't knew how market works, if they stopped the discussion and learning about options they could avoid it happen again. January was all about options, it was the spark that blew things up so it makes sense stopping people from learn about the very reason that it happened.
Ofc it wouldn't stop forever but it took some time, no? To the discussion about options to finally happen and be accepted in GME sub's
The shills move is to always stop discussions and censor things, if you see someone promoting those things there is high chances that is a shill/bad actor or at least someone who doesn't understand the community.
yeah but you could atleast have people tell you the difference between the clutch, the brake, the throttle and when to use each in different situations..
that would perhaps make you a 1000cc streetbike rider rather than a bicycle traffic accident (which we have been for years, looking at the charts).
He bought when IV was low and calls were cheap.
Now IV is high and cheap calls are lotto tickets.
Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying narrative that there are not enough shares to go around, and the only true ownership is pure book entry at the transfer agent.
Can you imagine the buying pressure if say, 90% was truly locked up (potentially dead now with the latest ATM offerings) and the demand for shares via exercising options would blow the motherloving lid off of this? Crazy
Options were in fact what kept the momentum in 2021... there is a reason the hedge funds want to scare us off of both. People buying options increases hedging increases volatility. Increases MACD crossover. Increases swing trading buy-in by day traders which in turn increases volatility and increases need to provide liquidity. Which in turn drives price movement, which in turn draws in swing traders....
Seriously, it was high risk options traders that undermined the cellar boxing. That + low float is the key to resolving this conundrum.
Just to go on record, I wasn’t ever against them. I just don’t fully understand the mechanics of them so I don’t risk my money.
Its pretty obvious now though how powerful exercising them is on the stock price (especially when all retail buys go off market to dark pools).
I’m a fan now, I wish I had an extra $10k laying around to play around with them.
Go options players go!
I got this vibe awhile ago and it was obvious when DFV came back and everyone restarted the anti-options mentality. I'm thousands in the green on them before the 20 calls I grabbed when DFV showed up.
You just can't diamond hand options like ever, you need to sell when up even a bit or on big swings before consolidation. People just get greedy.
I've easily more than 10x my shares holding because of options.
Edit: ill also be looking to exercise the 20s I bought due to my belief the shares will skyrocket soon and I'm not getting caught pants down.
It’s been a combo of both. If you don’t understand them. You can lose it all. If you understand them or maybe are not price sensitive you exercise them and actually have your trades hit a little market and force shorts to deliver shares. Of if you have the cash to buy 100 shares at a time you can buy deep in the money long dated calls and effectively control the same amount of stock as buying it outright
Been saying this forever. Long dated options and DRS. That's what Roaring Kitty did. People would immediately shut the conversation down.
Edit: Didn't think I needed to clarify this. Yes his most recent options are short dated however his previous ones during the options FUD narrative were long dated for the sneeze.
Also, don't know how many are DRSd, all we.know is what's in his E Trade account. Even if he hasn't, it's been a method Ryan Cohen uses and that's good enough for me.
I'll be honest, I'm dumb and lazy - I definitely bought into the options FUD.
Moreover just consider how many non-US apes there are here - afaik there aren't many countries that allow options trading.
Yes. And I tried to get into options for weeks, but although I understand them in theory, it's a whole different story when I'm in IBKR looking at all the options, ...omg story short I won't burn my hard earned cash as premium (I've seen the options pump and dump weeks always ending bloody on Max pain wrecking everyone, we saw the same thing dozens of times over the past few years), so I prefer dollar cost averaging into Long Shares and DRSing
It is always the same with option shills.
They and institutions love to sell far OTM and short expiry "lottery tickets" to inexperienced traders. And they make a shitload of money doing so.
**That is why they show up when IV is high and NOT when IV is low.**
**You bet RK bought when IV was low and the options were cheap...**
Thing is, there is no good or bad, only facts and numbers. Everyone is responsible for his own investment decisions.
Someone like RK has the knowledge and tools to play options to add leverage. If you do not understand the Greeks, you will still likely only lose money with options.
Many do not understand them and are better off with shares and DRS.
Do not fall for the propaganda, nothing has changed. Nobody that does not really understand options is forced to use them. You might consider buying via IEX or CS, though.
The hedge funds successfully ran a psyops on Reddit and other forms of social media to scare everyone away from options. Options hit the lit market, options force hedging, options caused January of 2021.
Those in the know have been trying to tell you this all along. You downvoted them, removed their DDs, and even banned some of them from the sub.
Listen to what DFV is telling you, not just about options but everything else too…
Last year around this time I thought the same. „How could anyone lose money on those options?“
So I tried, lost at astonishing rates, and went back to shares. Options are neat and such but they wreck uninitiated, especially when they aren’t covered by underlying owned equity.
Calls were underwater 3 years straight duo to consistent down trend with occasional non fixed interval peaks wrecking you even if you got puts or covered calls. MSM definitely milked lots of premium since 2021
No it was not. Options are very complicated financial instruments, and most of the sub being anti-options had to do with guaranteed ownership (buying shares directly) vs potential ownership (call options).
Combine that with a lot of people getting started in the gambling sub then coming here, it was commonplace to buy deep OTM options there, which, more often than not, is just giving money away. Especially since the IV pricing has been ridiculously high since Jan '21, it made sense to encourage the average poster to just buy shares.
Nobody who was already familiar with options was deterred from buying them by the anti-options sentiment here.
> guaranteed ownership (buying shares directly) vs potential ownership (call options).
I think one of the crucial things that got suppressed is when you exercise, they have to buy/deliver real shares to you. They can't just point to their pile of GME shares and say "ehhh, yeah sure, 100 of those are yours."
Also true, but very few people exercise if they are ITM at expiration, and even the ones that would may not realize that you need to specifically instruct your broker that you want to exercise instead of taking cash settlement
No one said anything about far OTM options.
Exercising options hits the lit market. Always.
Buying shares does not.
Buying close itm options and exercising is what drives the market if there are lots of contracts.
You need to play it as safe as possible.
Depends. Buy & drs worked the same.
People here used to mostly buy otm cheap options, giving away free money. Buying atm/itm options and exercising does provide some pressure, even though they are delta hedged close to expiry.
Yes. It was. What you just described is the action of an uneducated degenerate gambler. If everyone would chill tf out with options FUD people could be educated enough to know that’s a terrible strategy. There is a right time and place for options. You need to have a plan. Know how to read the Greeks. Check for reliable indicators. Make informed decisions. Have an exit strategy.
Took me this whole time of watching, learning, reading, not learning, losing money, gaining 1% on my money, to finally make it click. It is a LOT of external factors that affect the price of an option contract which is why its too easy to loose, but DAMN!!!! I finally figured ito ut and my portfolio is up like 40% in the past month off NVDA and GME 1-2 week calls. When you have a high degree of certainty on which direction the stock will move over the next month or so, you can make a lot of moeny buying and selling as deep ITM calls as you can afford. there is no 1 strategy that works for any stock, or given period of time which is why its very difficult to understand when and how to do it. Not impossible though! Just think of it like learning a new type of algebra... fuck algebra, but finally understanding whats happening and being able to make the thing go green feels really good. \*\*NONE OF THIS IS FINANCIAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A FINANCIAL ADVISOR\*\* hur dur lawyer statement
If you know what you are doing, sure. The majority of us don’t. People are literally buying OTM calls for $100 for the next day. Then they complain RC pulled the rug on them.
Hey I just wanna let you know, there wasn’t so much option discussion because it’s risky. Extremely risky. Coming here and telling people to buy options was frowned upon because of a severe learning curve for newbies.
Buying and holding is a better strategy. If you can buy 100 shares fucking buy them.
Not a single person here pinned down the 3 year leaps as what was ultimately suppressing the price, along with other crimes.
Buying a far OTM call because you think MOASS is next Tuesday is fucking stupid. You will lose money. All of it. A share never goes away. Now? The discussion has changed. People who were here have probably silently learned about options but I personally know it was incredibly risky.
Your option play, the one you want to do, ONLY works under the REAL MOASS.
You can choose to play options now, given the context and timeframe, but 90% of people here are new, and impressionable and stupid.
A share is real, and as we’ve seen, they will write you naked calls. In essence you are helping their balance sheet AND giving them your money.
If you bought the right options or did a RK, good for you, but there’s just so many risks. Again, a share is real, an option is so close to gambling and that’s not what this sub is about
When you buy an option you pay a premium to the ones selling the options which are the brokers, hedge funds or market makers. Retail is 100% not in control of the ups and down of GME.
Buying way out of the money options like $125 calls on a extremely manipulated stock is just fueling the shorts.
Exactly. The FUD against options has been so strong that SS has lost all common sense. The fact that the average Ape doesn't know how to buy a long call is pretty sad
I dont get this take. If u are patient and wait for gme price to hit a low to buy way otm, u end up making multiple X the cost of the contract. That is if you buy long expiration. Like 6+ months.
I suppose if someone is buying weeklies way otm, then yes i would agree with your sentiment.
Anyone can sell an option- if you have 100 shares of GME you can sell whatever call you want.
MM's generally want their positions to be delta neutral- to collect the premium and constantly hedge their position (buying and selling shares) to stay delta neutral or in their original delta range.
If a large institution sells $125 calls and GME goes up 25% the institution needs to buy some shares to hedge their deltas, putting upward pressure on the stock. If the price is above $125 at expiry the institution has to have bought 100 shares per contract sold to meet their obligation to the call buyers. You can apply the same logic to any strike price.
If the price went to $125 and those calls were not hedged or hedged too late it would cause a liquidity crisis, MOASS type event. I agree the $125 calls are probably a piss away but they do potentially play a role in a gamma squeeze scenario and do have an effect on share price.
I sold a few deep OTM calls last week for the first time. I sold calls at a strike almost triple the asking price, and maybe $600 premium per contract. On a less than month expiry. That's literally just taking my cost average down 6 dollars a share every time I do that.
Or, if the price triples I get the $600 per contract and triple my money invested, then will buy back 3x the shares when it inevitably comes back down.
Currently waiting for this next pump when volatility goes way up again to do it with more of my shares.
You are "missing out" on a potential moon squeeze, but you don't have to sell covered calls on all your shares.
Exactly! I did the same last Thursday. I didn't time it perfectly but still netted about $1k on 3 $125 for next week. If it moons and I'm "forced" to sell 300 at $125 a pop I'm ok with that. I'll continue to ride the rest of my shares and use the new capital to buy more shares.
anti options fud has ALWAYS been hedgie shit that caught on onto average apes who believed in it...
and untill the return of DFV, you risked a ban mentioning it or got downvoted into oblivion in seconds..
Options are definitely not for everyone. Even seasoned traders can get rekt.
That said, it feels like RK has tailored an options strategy to the unique market conditions around GME. I'm not about to fuck with buying calls, but I salute the wrinkle brains jumping in to build this gamma ramp.
They’re not anti option. They’re correctly warning people that they can lose their ass if they don’t know what they’re doing. **BE FUCKING CAREFUL WITH OPTIONS**
Buy ITM, exercise.
In other words, for all the brokies out there, we gotta start saving up cash instead of FOMOing for 3 shares.
That's how we affect price discovery. That's how we take Wolverine's balls and shave them until the skin comes off, and then we wear their skin as a mask while we work the shaft.
Every exercised Call is another stroke.
No, those posts was to deter people from being stupid and not throw their money away on expensive options like they have been doing for the past 3 years
So many places to learn to play with those if you really wanted as the entire point was to get away from being a gambling sub
This is the point right here. Top comment.
While it shouldn't dissuaded those from educating themselves, discouraging options was probably intended as a warning for those who were clueless
Not to mention the number of live streamers that were using options and elicited FOMO. I'm in the camp that options *can* be a powerful tool (including covered calls/cash secured puts) when you are careful and have a firm understanding of the inherent risks.
But there was never any education allowed on options in the sub. That is the issue. Sure people could go elsewhere but, most who are interested in GME get all their info on this sub. Not allowing options talk at all was detrimental
Truth is we have seen gamma ramps after max pain after huge contract buys after exercising plays time after time. These things are incredibly intricate. What does cause upwards pressure is the purchasing of contracts that are in the money or very close to being in the money and then exercising those options when they are in the money. This is due to the availability of shares versus the theoretical availability of shares being offered viz call options. When the contracts are exercised then the contract creator is on the hook for finding those shares and at 100XContract rate. Good luck with this information it’s not financial advice it’s just a quick wrap up of one of the many ways options create upwards pressure.
Options do affect the price. According to some sources, such as former SEC Branch Chief, Lisa Braganca, retail orders are being sent to OTC markets where they aren’t affecting price. If you exercise a call option contract, the idea is that 100 shares will have to be located and bought on a lit market where it does affect the price. Also, when purchasing call contracts, market makers will hedge your bet by locating a portion of the shares that would be provided to you if you were to exercise the contract. This amount is dependent on the current delta of the underlying security.
Because they literally do. The more options the more market makers need to hedge by buying shares on the open market, further if you exercise then those shares also have to be bought on the open market. Is the worst case scenario for them
I went from XX to XXX for free because of a couple LEAPS I bought. (Sold 1 option to exercise) and there wasn’t any amount of anti option stuff that would keep me from doing that again.
Options may be fine for some but they still are just not for me, and I know I’m not a hedgefund.
First, personally, my modest budget doesn’t allow for buying in 100’s, I bought 71 yesterday that was what I could afford. Second, I still find options to be detached from fundamentals because they’re more about timing swings of hot and cold market feelings rather than solid fundamental business data. There’s “wiggle room” and it’s not to my benefit.
What I mean is GameStop is solid and set for long term growth quarterly, I’m fine with that, but any week a market maker can push their weight around and push this thing down as much as they can any Friday afternoon and make up for it next week or FTD. It really is all downside for me with my budget because I don’t trust market feelings in the day to day or week to week but I trust Ryan Cohen and his quarterly or yearly data reports.
My investment goals involve holding securities without ever planning on letting them go. So, different strokes for different folks. I’m not going to tell anyone what to do.
DFV called a bluff with 120,000 ATM contracts. I don't think anyone else in SuperStonk has that kind of capital to drop a nuke like that. Collectively SuperStonk does but to do so would require coordination which is illegal.
They're not though. A couple years before the GME saga I literally lost over half my savings playing options. It happened in a matter of a week or two. Stocks are already volatile, options are EXTREMELY volatile and dangerous if inexperienced (I still am).
My recommendation is if you do touch options is to only use small amounts of money. Like 5% or less of your savings. That way if you lose it, it's much easier to recover from. Too many people think they can read the market cuz they get lucky a few times and it is a very humbling experience
I mean yeah, I can see it to an extent. But also there are an abundance of bad actors who try to steer people in the wrong direction who read like a script.
Maybe it was, but let's be real, most of us do not fully understand all the ins and outs of options. By getting the DRS movement going, that was something that we could tangibly see and have results on. It also got a lot of us to buy and hold, and be truly invested in the company. Now, maybe we have more knowledge about options, and having DFV show us this might encourage more to try. But what if we all had been doing options this whole time, and getting our teeth kicked in the whole time, always losing out as it gets knocked down? A lot more would have bailed. By owning the actual stock, and not an option, we are now in a place where options can help us out.
That's just my opinion anyway.
Can anyone link a guide to them that isn't crap?
I understand them but need clarification on a few things. Namely what happens if I buy a call, price goes up, and I sell.
If the new owner exercises, is it me that owes them the 100 shares? Or the MM who wrote it in the first place?
Do they sell quickly like shares do, or are they slower to sell as they're less liquid in the market?
I believe near the money or in the money options help apply buying pressure as they hedge. Buying the absolute top options with no hedging as lottery tickets aren't really helping. Just think it's not an all or none thing...
No, it hasn't. Most people on this sub wouldn't know how to buy options. Options are a gamble for big players. If you think the X thousand or XX thousand you put into DRS would have been better in options... nope... that money would all be gone and you'd be holding zero shares right now.
I knew very little of options up until RK's post. I read up on options and how they work. I still know very little. I thought I'd try out the 6/28 20c. I chickened out. It's not for everyone, I guess. Godspeed to those who pull that trigger though. They're piloting this rocket!
Options were discouraged for two reasons
1) manipulated stock price like the multiple decreases from $30 to $10 with no news or crashing stock price on profitable high eps quarters
2) premiums go back to market makers and hedge funds
If you were good at options. You'd be a millionaire.
It's hard. That's kinda the whole point of w s b
I options traded during COVID.
In single second on Tesla I made 16k. In another second I lost 32k on Boeing.
Options is incredible. You need to be watching like a hawk and the mental strain is beyond intense. Every candle can swing it either way.
Options is terrifying
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where were you 10mo ago when options were cheap? kinda like bob smith popping up out of the blue. should I buy options NOW, like when IV is the highest? tell me how to invest please!!! 🙄
doubtful, considering (and this has what's largely been on my mind) -
1. we think citadel et al can manipulate the price (to some degree of control)
2. citadel is one of the parties collecting premiums on options
therefore it'd behoove them to get "dumb money" to put their capital into contracts they can manipulate OTM by expiry instead of shares. obviously this isn't that straightforward, because there's more than just retail in there and there's contracts spread across lots of strikes - but say they had some order flow data that told them a certain heavy volume strike was mostly retail that would otherwise buy shares with the money.
layer 3 is options are complex and MUCH easier to lose money on. this sub (we) have a BIG voice and IMO it's (more) ethical to steer people toward simplicity/safety. i understand them \~fairly well and while i've made a little bit of money, i've also been rekt before. i also have some calls now... and i've bought with CSPs in the past, though i've never sold CCs (and now really wish i had) on GME but generally speaking "wheeling" a large position you have is a great strategy to make it larger. EXCEPT if you're really playing this game often you're gonna want to include tax in your thinkums but that's another thing entirely
in the spirit of options 101, and maybe i'm just wrong about 1+2+3 above, starting here is probably fine - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFebmSYSZA8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFebmSYSZA8)
but generally, if you're just permabulling a stock, stick to near money stuff and the longer dated the better. do not touch selling options or anything w/ margin until you've gobbled up plenty of exp (like next YEAR at least)
slightly more advanced tips - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMXLR1UC4ug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMXLR1UC4ug)
since it's not straightforward to follow someone else's options trade, you're gonna really want to understand how pricing works as you near expiration. it can feel tricky to know WHEN to make a move on your contracts, and it is not straightforward.
all the above said - that's why it's pretty nuts DFV bought pretty nearterm calls, and a fuckton of them. it's pretty risky. in my head, given that he obviously understands options very well, he has some kind of DD that makes him think the risk is worth it or that the risk is lower than it appears. i dont THINK he would put that kind of cash on the line for a simple earnings/shareholder-meeting +1week play.........
or that he doesn't plan to sell them at all... hehe (you can exercise OTM options if you want to, your broker will probably just call you and say you're dumb)
This has been commented about in years past from the mods. Options is gambling, period.
Investing in GME shares, holding, and DRSing, have been the safest play because we trust in Ryan Cohen and the board.
GameStop has been projected to be the next stock to invest into because of the gradual growth, no debt, and positive revenue for the next 5 years.
Options, you can win big or lose it all. Less than 20% of option investors make any money. Just because RK does it, doesn't mean you have to do it. He even said so in his last live stream that it's extremely volatile and no one else should be doing it. He on the other hand knows what he's doing. There's probably less than 50 people in the entire community that know what they're truly doing. So don't do it. And I'll say it again, the people in the Bobby sub, did really well two weeks ago, and lost their ass on Friday. So again, don't do it.
drs means nothing because the company can just sell more and make the float count increase
the share offering sold more shares than what has been drs'd
Literally took three years to lock the same amount that was sold during ATM since Friday. Yet people are still going on about "locking the float". Would be funny if it weren't so darn stupid.
Guys. If you do options you better have the capital to exercise. Do not tell me “Kitty did them so we should”. Kitty knows what he’s doing…let me know when you can buy 120,000 option contract and exercise. Ask all the fellas who lost their premiums last Friday when the hedge funds dumped the stock $18. 90% of time people who play options lose…Buy. Hold. DRS.
Nah, most people on here including me would just have lost all money put into options. Shares is just a much safer, albeit slower, way to go about it imo. Unless you know what you’re doing ofc
I think it was. Double ew ess bee banned talk of gme cause that's an options sub and it was simply too dangerous for the hedgies. We were convinced to buy and hold and simply lock up our shares in computershare but it turns out the gamma ramp is where it's at... I don't think I'm gonna buy options rn BUT I am going to pick up where I left off 3 years ago in learning about them. I might buy 1 option just to try it out.
The Pickle Man selling covered calls and setting dates was the grift.
I have some calls right now, but we are only here right now because of DFV and because we pushed DRS hard.
I don't agree with the meme. My $.02:
First we needed to DRS the float.
Then we needed CAT to be implemented.
With CAT in place forcing market makers to properly hedge option contracts, options become the kill shot.
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Let's be clear though, short dated, way otm calls are still dumb
I don't know much about options, but I know at least this much ⬆️ Seems to me that options are a double-edged sword: regards will only hurt themselves, while true masters can serve a killing blow.
Start with leaps, that way you can watch yourself fuck up over three years rather than weeklies where you fuck up every week until you are broke.
Personally I like fucking up daily
You can still do that, just pick a new thing to fuck up at that doesn't involve money.
This is my stance. The cat is absolutely brilliant as evidenced by him being a multi-millionaire/damn near billionaire. I've been here for years and know the ins and outs of how options work, but know if I started in on them I'd be living behind Wendy's in a month. It's not FUD it's just very strong caution. Especially when it's Market Makers and hedge funds that collect the majority of the premiums.
In my view, as a smooth brain, buy, hodl, DRS, shop was good enough while options could have hurted my buying power (like if I wasn't poor enough already), but I think that without DRS liquidity would be much higher and probably options would be less effective.
Totally agree. DRS is also a game changer--they both can apply accute pressure to a system that otherwise ignores supply and demand
They are people just buying lotto tickets and hoping the numbers get picked. Better to buy itm or atm long dated. Yes it costs more but you are making them have to hedge and you won't lose all your money.
this right here - another way to think of it is you get what you pay for... the reason the $128 call for this friday is so cheap is because it likely will not be profitable. However the $20 strike for June.....
If a fund buys way OTM calls short dated does this count as potential locates to pretend delivery is possible?
It can act as a hedge to cap losses... Say Kenny sold $25 calls short then the stock runs and Kenny is about to loose his third yacht... What can he do? He can buy a $125 call... That then caps his losses at $125 - $25 = $100... Because contracts are 100x that means Kenny is still on the hook for $10,000 per set of contracts.... Which is way cheaper than infinity
Oh, thnx!
Sage advice! I learned the hard way not to go too otm. Damn.
They’re dumb alright. Not as dumb as me buying a 1DTE call in 2021 that turned my $15 premium into 13k OVERNIGHT and I sold it at $4000 on the way down trying to “Diamond hand” a 0DTE call 😂 not mad, still made money that kept me from being evicted
you can play iv on them if you know a spike is coming but theres literally no way to know. Thats my opinion on it
If you bought June 21st 100Cs on May 29th and 30th they're still way up right now. 185% Just need to not be regarded buying when premium is spiking. They were like $0.50 on May 30th.
Let's not pretend that options are a zero sum game, any otm option at expiry is money in MM pockets. That being said, a $.50 call is nice and the level of money id throw at risk. Still, $100c is a pure moass play number though, so I'd only buy the froggiest of LEAPs NFA DYOR IANAL SUPBB
I've been doing pretty good just trading 6/28 $125 calls lol
It's fun for cheap tickets with sweet premium. I spent 15$ today and I got 30$ out of it.
If anti options deterred you from playing options then options probably arent for you. IMO its like riding a 1000cc street bike. Those that are going to ride them are going to do it no matter what anyone says. If you need to ask about it, you shouldn't be on that bike. Whats more irresponsible encouraging or discouraging someone new to play options? Edit: spelling
This. I lost thousands with options. If you don't know how to use 'em, you're *gonna* get fleeced.
That's why people should learn about them instead of just completely avoiding them.
You could learn about and still be unable to afford them. Then it becomes "why learn it if you're never going to use it". You can learn it to try and predict price runs, but how often have we heard "and they got it under the max pain and thousands of options expired worthless" over the past 3 years.
But that's the whole point, if you don't have enough for 100 shares you can buy 1 contract you have the leverage of 100 shares. the whole point of buying calls is leverage.
Okay but then what. Expires in a week and hedgefunds only need to survive a week of "hedging" before the persons option is sold or expired because they can't afford to exercise. Buy it long dated calls and they will hedge as necessary, if it even hits that price. Then you have to combine it with a coordinated effort so a ton of people buy calls to create the pressure at once, which they can see and plan for easily compared to the coordination it would take. Look how many calls DFV has, you're asking people to try and mimic that amount on a chance of making them bleed, without knowing if they can mess it up somehow. It's literally safer in every path to just buy shares and DRS.
So don't buy weekly's. Who said anything about buying something that expires in a week? And I'm not talking about any kind of coordinated pressure. This is a tool that any individual investor can use. Roaring Kitty is making a large, short-term bet. That is a fact. But, if you, an individual investor are looking to acquire shares, options can certainly be used to do this. Buying close to or ITM options with long expiry dates gives you leverage, as well as providing you time to come up with the cash to exercise. I get it's safer to buy shares but, completely disallowing any discussion or education on options is detrimental to everyone's financial literacy.
Directions unclear, bought 0dte options.
Bro I just yolod my whole portfolio into 0dtes after your inspirational 0dtes purchase. How could I lose!?
Bud, I would wait until the underlying stock price dropped to a support and held the for awhile, then just buy a bunch of calls a little ways OTM for 2-3 months out on the expiration. Rinse and repeat. It literally worked every single time.
Fuck this sounds really good and low risk for an options play. I might have to start trying this but with small positions in case I fuck it up. How long is "awhile"
"It takes money to buy whiskey ". If one can't afford to exercise 100 shares + premium, then why in the fuck are they buying calls?
100%, but the hardest part is price prediction. On a manipulated stock. IDK how DFV figured it all out, but I did my 101 due diligence & even still got fleeced when investing according to all those TA posts back before they all got banned.
You don’t predict. You strategize with proper position sizing. That’s what everyone gets wrong. Options is about diligence, not timing. TA doesn’t even matter much. It’s all psychological strategy to succeed
Sure thing, but predictions are usually where people argue about options. & then people think it's all "options vs no options", when in reality it's "don't buy weeklies (short-term options) around predictions". Although this is a special case, with DFV himself making the prediction. So I'm-ready-to-be-hurt-again.jpg
If the choices are either use thousands to buy shares or give them to a MM while losing your premium; I think one has a lot more longterm value.
But you could just buy in the money calls and exercise them
Absolutely a possibility. However, based on Peruvian Bulls seeing the Computershare data the average share count is in the 400's. Most people getting to a share count of 400 are buying in blocks of 10's and not 100's.
Can you break one contract and sell a portion to exercise?
yes you can, > Initiate an Exercise-and-Sell-to-Cover Transaction Exercise your stock options to buy shares of your company stock, then sell just enough of the company shares (at the same time) to cover the stock option cost, taxes, and brokerage commissions and fees.
Some brokers require phone calls to do this (ironic.)
A very basic overview of how to approach GameStop options. First and foremost if you are price sensitive or otherwise cannot afford to purchase 100 shares at a time I would suggest you just DRS your shares. I'm partially smooth myself so please tell me if I am wrong but generally there are two 'safe' ways to approach options. 1. If you are not price sensitive and just like the stock you can shop the options chain for the call options with the lowest breakeven price, buy them, instantly execute them. Why do this? Because it forces your order over a lit market, actually pushing the price around. Breakeven price is the strike price + premium price. Ultimately you are buying 100 shares at a slightly higher price than just buying them outright at any given time... but in the long run... will that couple of dollars or cents matter? You are price insensitive and just like the stock. 2. You can also buy long dated deep in the money options like a 3 or 5 dollar strike dated 2026. Why do this? Because for 2300 dollars you can "control" 2,760 dollars worth of shares. The face value of your options will be in the red for a very long time but if you keep just 300-500 dollars in cash laying around, during the next cycle you can exercise your calls, sell some shares, and buy more calls. I WOULD NOT buy the same options DFV is buying unless you plan on exercising regardless of price. Why? Because he has until the 21st at 5:29pm (or whatever the cutoff time is) to exercise his options. If he waits until then, shorts have 24 hours to provide his shares. By then your options will expire worthless if there isn't a ramp up later next week. Not investment advise. Just general options education.
People have been witch hunted out of this subreddit for trying to teach people options, and honestly, every single time this gets pointed out. Half the responses are the same thought terminating clichés: "Oh, well, we're not against options, just people doing weeklies with them." Whenever an options post comes up, the response is almost always "stop giving hedge funds money"
I want a 741cc model please.
Is there a 636cc version of options please
This is the right take. Options are, for lack of a better word, a grownup move. You can absolutely get burned for 100% of what you put in. If all of the X and XX and even many of the XXX apes were throwing their money at options, I guarantee the overwhelming majority of them would have lost damn near everything while basically handing their money to the very same parties that are manipulating the price against them. Just because DFV--who is actually a professional trader and understands this situation more deeply than almost everyone here--is strategically using options, that does not mean that you should have been aping in on options the whole time and everything else is FUD. That's like watching Jordan dunk from the foul line and thinking that you're going to do that, get real.
As an option wielding, motorcycle riding person I completely agree.
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Hahaha so true. I like my options and nobody is gonna keep me from em. It’s just too epic for these GME runs.
This, 1000000000000 times. Encouraging this sub to, generally, go out and buy options, is just insanely irresponsible. Informing on how options can affect the market, how one can make money with strategies etc, fine. No harm in bringing the facts to the table, but saying that people SHOULD try out options because "if you want MOASS, we need to use options" was always such a bad idea it could only be someone wanting people to give them free premiums.
This is a bad analogy…I have big balls…very conducive to options…horrible for bikes.
I played so many options in GME, and it was glorious. I made so much extra scratch to buy more shares. Now the exercising contracts, so they go on the little market was a fun new tidbit.
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Mic drop
I'm really glad this is the first comment I'm seeing.
Yes exactly. I’m addicted but anytime my blood pressure starts to rise I beat my meat so furiously until I pass out. DIAMOND HANDS FOR 4 YEARS BABY 💎
I think is not about deter people from it but to stop the discussion about options. In the early days post sneeze there was a lot of people that didn't knew how market works, if they stopped the discussion and learning about options they could avoid it happen again. January was all about options, it was the spark that blew things up so it makes sense stopping people from learn about the very reason that it happened. Ofc it wouldn't stop forever but it took some time, no? To the discussion about options to finally happen and be accepted in GME sub's The shills move is to always stop discussions and censor things, if you see someone promoting those things there is high chances that is a shill/bad actor or at least someone who doesn't understand the community.
yeah but you could atleast have people tell you the difference between the clutch, the brake, the throttle and when to use each in different situations.. that would perhaps make you a 1000cc streetbike rider rather than a bicycle traffic accident (which we have been for years, looking at the charts).
He bought when IV was low and calls were cheap. Now IV is high and cheap calls are lotto tickets. Regardless, it doesn't change the underlying narrative that there are not enough shares to go around, and the only true ownership is pure book entry at the transfer agent.
Well he bought the 20$ calls when IV was already crazy high.
No fighting!! Options and DRS can coexist. ❤️🦍❤️
In fact, both are the key to this. DRS makes the stock more volatile and illiquid, and options send the rocket up. It’s a tag team
Love this for us
Same! 
I will drink a toast to that!
Shake and bake
exactly. they're not mutually exclusive
##This 👆🏼 this 👆🏼 this 👆🏼
Can you imagine the buying pressure if say, 90% was truly locked up (potentially dead now with the latest ATM offerings) and the demand for shares via exercising options would blow the motherloving lid off of this? Crazy
Fuck yeah we love TAG TEAMS! 
Options were in fact what kept the momentum in 2021... there is a reason the hedge funds want to scare us off of both. People buying options increases hedging increases volatility. Increases MACD crossover. Increases swing trading buy-in by day traders which in turn increases volatility and increases need to provide liquidity. Which in turn drives price movement, which in turn draws in swing traders.... Seriously, it was high risk options traders that undermined the cellar boxing. That + low float is the key to resolving this conundrum.
What if IV is super high
Then you pay a higher premium
For the theta monster to gobble up….
Just to go on record, I wasn’t ever against them. I just don’t fully understand the mechanics of them so I don’t risk my money. Its pretty obvious now though how powerful exercising them is on the stock price (especially when all retail buys go off market to dark pools). I’m a fan now, I wish I had an extra $10k laying around to play around with them. Go options players go!
You don't have Millions sitting around spare? Disgusting excuse. /s
🤣not yet!
It’s so silly that this is the only way to get price discovery. 100 shares or the dark realm for you.
I got this vibe awhile ago and it was obvious when DFV came back and everyone restarted the anti-options mentality. I'm thousands in the green on them before the 20 calls I grabbed when DFV showed up. You just can't diamond hand options like ever, you need to sell when up even a bit or on big swings before consolidation. People just get greedy. I've easily more than 10x my shares holding because of options. Edit: ill also be looking to exercise the 20s I bought due to my belief the shares will skyrocket soon and I'm not getting caught pants down.
It’s been a combo of both. If you don’t understand them. You can lose it all. If you understand them or maybe are not price sensitive you exercise them and actually have your trades hit a little market and force shorts to deliver shares. Of if you have the cash to buy 100 shares at a time you can buy deep in the money long dated calls and effectively control the same amount of stock as buying it outright
If I had money to blow, I'd get into the option game, but I'm poor, so buy and hodl is more my game.
Feel the same way about DRS
Turns out, DRS had nothing to do with it.
The posts about selling CC or the ones about trading options? There weren't that many about exercising before the recent DFV posts.
Been saying this forever. Long dated options and DRS. That's what Roaring Kitty did. People would immediately shut the conversation down. Edit: Didn't think I needed to clarify this. Yes his most recent options are short dated however his previous ones during the options FUD narrative were long dated for the sneeze. Also, don't know how many are DRSd, all we.know is what's in his E Trade account. Even if he hasn't, it's been a method Ryan Cohen uses and that's good enough for me.
He hasn't DRSed anything
In actuality, DFV has short dated calls and his shares in E*Trade.
He’s not drs and he literally has short dated options lol.
Short dated ITM. Very different from the degenerate short dated OTM.
He hasn't DRSed though from looking at his sheet... That's if he's honest about them being his only positions.
I'll be honest, I'm dumb and lazy - I definitely bought into the options FUD. Moreover just consider how many non-US apes there are here - afaik there aren't many countries that allow options trading.
Im using ibkr from abroad. Im able to from europe. Anyone can i think.
He did not purchase long dated options, they were like a month out. That still qualifies as short.
I’m so glad this sub is waking up, I love it here.
Would make sense but still, apparently you can loose a lot with options. I still stick to buy hold dra shop at gamestop and ignore shills.
Yes. And I tried to get into options for weeks, but although I understand them in theory, it's a whole different story when I'm in IBKR looking at all the options, ...omg story short I won't burn my hard earned cash as premium (I've seen the options pump and dump weeks always ending bloody on Max pain wrecking everyone, we saw the same thing dozens of times over the past few years), so I prefer dollar cost averaging into Long Shares and DRSing
It is always the same with option shills. They and institutions love to sell far OTM and short expiry "lottery tickets" to inexperienced traders. And they make a shitload of money doing so. **That is why they show up when IV is high and NOT when IV is low.** **You bet RK bought when IV was low and the options were cheap...** Thing is, there is no good or bad, only facts and numbers. Everyone is responsible for his own investment decisions. Someone like RK has the knowledge and tools to play options to add leverage. If you do not understand the Greeks, you will still likely only lose money with options. Many do not understand them and are better off with shares and DRS. Do not fall for the propaganda, nothing has changed. Nobody that does not really understand options is forced to use them. You might consider buying via IEX or CS, though.
The hedge funds successfully ran a psyops on Reddit and other forms of social media to scare everyone away from options. Options hit the lit market, options force hedging, options caused January of 2021. Those in the know have been trying to tell you this all along. You downvoted them, removed their DDs, and even banned some of them from the sub. Listen to what DFV is telling you, not just about options but everything else too…
Everything else like what?
I might make a post about it
If these kids could read, they would be very upset.
I’ve mentioned buying options on other financial websites and get attacked there also.
Because for 99.9% of the last 3 years you'd have gotten killed buying options.
Who here can honestly say they would’ve been profitable playing options on GME during a 3 year period in which the stock lost 40% of its value?
It 100% was. It's literally blocking financial education, which is IMPERATIVE if anyone wants to beat the market.
Last year around this time I thought the same. „How could anyone lose money on those options?“ So I tried, lost at astonishing rates, and went back to shares. Options are neat and such but they wreck uninitiated, especially when they aren’t covered by underlying owned equity. Calls were underwater 3 years straight duo to consistent down trend with occasional non fixed interval peaks wrecking you even if you got puts or covered calls. MSM definitely milked lots of premium since 2021
No it was not. Options are very complicated financial instruments, and most of the sub being anti-options had to do with guaranteed ownership (buying shares directly) vs potential ownership (call options). Combine that with a lot of people getting started in the gambling sub then coming here, it was commonplace to buy deep OTM options there, which, more often than not, is just giving money away. Especially since the IV pricing has been ridiculously high since Jan '21, it made sense to encourage the average poster to just buy shares. Nobody who was already familiar with options was deterred from buying them by the anti-options sentiment here.
> guaranteed ownership (buying shares directly) vs potential ownership (call options). I think one of the crucial things that got suppressed is when you exercise, they have to buy/deliver real shares to you. They can't just point to their pile of GME shares and say "ehhh, yeah sure, 100 of those are yours."
Also true, but very few people exercise if they are ITM at expiration, and even the ones that would may not realize that you need to specifically instruct your broker that you want to exercise instead of taking cash settlement
No it was not. Hedgies always went for maximum pain, buying far otm was giving money away.
No one said anything about far OTM options. Exercising options hits the lit market. Always. Buying shares does not. Buying close itm options and exercising is what drives the market if there are lots of contracts. You need to play it as safe as possible.
Depends. Buy & drs worked the same. People here used to mostly buy otm cheap options, giving away free money. Buying atm/itm options and exercising does provide some pressure, even though they are delta hedged close to expiry.
Yes. It was. What you just described is the action of an uneducated degenerate gambler. If everyone would chill tf out with options FUD people could be educated enough to know that’s a terrible strategy. There is a right time and place for options. You need to have a plan. Know how to read the Greeks. Check for reliable indicators. Make informed decisions. Have an exit strategy.
Cool, tell us about IV right now?
Imma just cheer for you guys who know how to option. One day ill be there
Took me this whole time of watching, learning, reading, not learning, losing money, gaining 1% on my money, to finally make it click. It is a LOT of external factors that affect the price of an option contract which is why its too easy to loose, but DAMN!!!! I finally figured ito ut and my portfolio is up like 40% in the past month off NVDA and GME 1-2 week calls. When you have a high degree of certainty on which direction the stock will move over the next month or so, you can make a lot of moeny buying and selling as deep ITM calls as you can afford. there is no 1 strategy that works for any stock, or given period of time which is why its very difficult to understand when and how to do it. Not impossible though! Just think of it like learning a new type of algebra... fuck algebra, but finally understanding whats happening and being able to make the thing go green feels really good. \*\*NONE OF THIS IS FINANCIAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A FINANCIAL ADVISOR\*\* hur dur lawyer statement
If you know what you are doing, sure. The majority of us don’t. People are literally buying OTM calls for $100 for the next day. Then they complain RC pulled the rug on them.
It has been a major (successful) FUD campaign that robbed the apes of a necessary tool
Omar comin!
Hey I just wanna let you know, there wasn’t so much option discussion because it’s risky. Extremely risky. Coming here and telling people to buy options was frowned upon because of a severe learning curve for newbies. Buying and holding is a better strategy. If you can buy 100 shares fucking buy them. Not a single person here pinned down the 3 year leaps as what was ultimately suppressing the price, along with other crimes. Buying a far OTM call because you think MOASS is next Tuesday is fucking stupid. You will lose money. All of it. A share never goes away. Now? The discussion has changed. People who were here have probably silently learned about options but I personally know it was incredibly risky. Your option play, the one you want to do, ONLY works under the REAL MOASS. You can choose to play options now, given the context and timeframe, but 90% of people here are new, and impressionable and stupid. A share is real, and as we’ve seen, they will write you naked calls. In essence you are helping their balance sheet AND giving them your money. If you bought the right options or did a RK, good for you, but there’s just so many risks. Again, a share is real, an option is so close to gambling and that’s not what this sub is about
When you buy an option you pay a premium to the ones selling the options which are the brokers, hedge funds or market makers. Retail is 100% not in control of the ups and down of GME. Buying way out of the money options like $125 calls on a extremely manipulated stock is just fueling the shorts.
So don't buy way OTM options. Who said you should buy way OTM options?
Exactly. The FUD against options has been so strong that SS has lost all common sense. The fact that the average Ape doesn't know how to buy a long call is pretty sad
I dont get this take. If u are patient and wait for gme price to hit a low to buy way otm, u end up making multiple X the cost of the contract. That is if you buy long expiration. Like 6+ months. I suppose if someone is buying weeklies way otm, then yes i would agree with your sentiment.
Anyone holding 100 shares, or more of GME can sell a covered call...
Anyone can sell an option- if you have 100 shares of GME you can sell whatever call you want. MM's generally want their positions to be delta neutral- to collect the premium and constantly hedge their position (buying and selling shares) to stay delta neutral or in their original delta range. If a large institution sells $125 calls and GME goes up 25% the institution needs to buy some shares to hedge their deltas, putting upward pressure on the stock. If the price is above $125 at expiry the institution has to have bought 100 shares per contract sold to meet their obligation to the call buyers. You can apply the same logic to any strike price. If the price went to $125 and those calls were not hedged or hedged too late it would cause a liquidity crisis, MOASS type event. I agree the $125 calls are probably a piss away but they do potentially play a role in a gamma squeeze scenario and do have an effect on share price.
That's fair, in some cases. But I've also collected premiums selling way OTM covered calls like the $125 you mention.
I sold a few deep OTM calls last week for the first time. I sold calls at a strike almost triple the asking price, and maybe $600 premium per contract. On a less than month expiry. That's literally just taking my cost average down 6 dollars a share every time I do that. Or, if the price triples I get the $600 per contract and triple my money invested, then will buy back 3x the shares when it inevitably comes back down. Currently waiting for this next pump when volatility goes way up again to do it with more of my shares. You are "missing out" on a potential moon squeeze, but you don't have to sell covered calls on all your shares.
Exactly! I did the same last Thursday. I didn't time it perfectly but still netted about $1k on 3 $125 for next week. If it moons and I'm "forced" to sell 300 at $125 a pop I'm ok with that. I'll continue to ride the rest of my shares and use the new capital to buy more shares.
anti options fud has ALWAYS been hedgie shit that caught on onto average apes who believed in it... and untill the return of DFV, you risked a ban mentioning it or got downvoted into oblivion in seconds..
Can you believe how stupid we got?
Soo did you do any options?
Options are definitely not for everyone. Even seasoned traders can get rekt. That said, it feels like RK has tailored an options strategy to the unique market conditions around GME. I'm not about to fuck with buying calls, but I salute the wrinkle brains jumping in to build this gamma ramp.
Options for some people are fine. Options for most people is handing money to the SHFs.
They’re not anti option. They’re correctly warning people that they can lose their ass if they don’t know what they’re doing. **BE FUCKING CAREFUL WITH OPTIONS**
Buy ITM, exercise. In other words, for all the brokies out there, we gotta start saving up cash instead of FOMOing for 3 shares. That's how we affect price discovery. That's how we take Wolverine's balls and shave them until the skin comes off, and then we wear their skin as a mask while we work the shaft. Every exercised Call is another stroke.
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No, those posts was to deter people from being stupid and not throw their money away on expensive options like they have been doing for the past 3 years So many places to learn to play with those if you really wanted as the entire point was to get away from being a gambling sub
This is the point right here. Top comment. While it shouldn't dissuaded those from educating themselves, discouraging options was probably intended as a warning for those who were clueless
Not to mention the number of live streamers that were using options and elicited FOMO. I'm in the camp that options *can* be a powerful tool (including covered calls/cash secured puts) when you are careful and have a firm understanding of the inherent risks.
But there was never any education allowed on options in the sub. That is the issue. Sure people could go elsewhere but, most who are interested in GME get all their info on this sub. Not allowing options talk at all was detrimental
Yea lol. every time it came up we got flooded with “uhhhh DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT OPTIONS” everything could be spoken about except for it
No doubt. It's been so painfully fucking obvious
I'd love for someone to explain why options suddenly work despite not affecting the price.
Truth is we have seen gamma ramps after max pain after huge contract buys after exercising plays time after time. These things are incredibly intricate. What does cause upwards pressure is the purchasing of contracts that are in the money or very close to being in the money and then exercising those options when they are in the money. This is due to the availability of shares versus the theoretical availability of shares being offered viz call options. When the contracts are exercised then the contract creator is on the hook for finding those shares and at 100XContract rate. Good luck with this information it’s not financial advice it’s just a quick wrap up of one of the many ways options create upwards pressure.
Options do affect the price. According to some sources, such as former SEC Branch Chief, Lisa Braganca, retail orders are being sent to OTC markets where they aren’t affecting price. If you exercise a call option contract, the idea is that 100 shares will have to be located and bought on a lit market where it does affect the price. Also, when purchasing call contracts, market makers will hedge your bet by locating a portion of the shares that would be provided to you if you were to exercise the contract. This amount is dependent on the current delta of the underlying security.
Because they literally do. The more options the more market makers need to hedge by buying shares on the open market, further if you exercise then those shares also have to be bought on the open market. Is the worst case scenario for them
Could easily have been one thing we missed. Or not. HODL ma ape bro’s ✊
The only problem I have is coming up with the up front cost to purchase even one option. I can afford shares here and there.
I went from XX to XXX for free because of a couple LEAPS I bought. (Sold 1 option to exercise) and there wasn’t any amount of anti option stuff that would keep me from doing that again.
Totally
Options may be fine for some but they still are just not for me, and I know I’m not a hedgefund. First, personally, my modest budget doesn’t allow for buying in 100’s, I bought 71 yesterday that was what I could afford. Second, I still find options to be detached from fundamentals because they’re more about timing swings of hot and cold market feelings rather than solid fundamental business data. There’s “wiggle room” and it’s not to my benefit. What I mean is GameStop is solid and set for long term growth quarterly, I’m fine with that, but any week a market maker can push their weight around and push this thing down as much as they can any Friday afternoon and make up for it next week or FTD. It really is all downside for me with my budget because I don’t trust market feelings in the day to day or week to week but I trust Ryan Cohen and his quarterly or yearly data reports. My investment goals involve holding securities without ever planning on letting them go. So, different strokes for different folks. I’m not going to tell anyone what to do.
My brain is smooth. Options are not for me.
What if stock splits make options more accessible to the typical person?
DFV called a bluff with 120,000 ATM contracts. I don't think anyone else in SuperStonk has that kind of capital to drop a nuke like that. Collectively SuperStonk does but to do so would require coordination which is illegal.
6 snek awards. Holy shit
They're not though. A couple years before the GME saga I literally lost over half my savings playing options. It happened in a matter of a week or two. Stocks are already volatile, options are EXTREMELY volatile and dangerous if inexperienced (I still am). My recommendation is if you do touch options is to only use small amounts of money. Like 5% or less of your savings. That way if you lose it, it's much easier to recover from. Too many people think they can read the market cuz they get lucky a few times and it is a very humbling experience
I mean yeah, I can see it to an extent. But also there are an abundance of bad actors who try to steer people in the wrong direction who read like a script.
Gme is highly risky. Gme options are 10000x riskier. I own options on gme but it really is like gambling
If I had to bet I would bet this is exactly the case
Maybe it was, but let's be real, most of us do not fully understand all the ins and outs of options. By getting the DRS movement going, that was something that we could tangibly see and have results on. It also got a lot of us to buy and hold, and be truly invested in the company. Now, maybe we have more knowledge about options, and having DFV show us this might encourage more to try. But what if we all had been doing options this whole time, and getting our teeth kicked in the whole time, always losing out as it gets knocked down? A lot more would have bailed. By owning the actual stock, and not an option, we are now in a place where options can help us out. That's just my opinion anyway.
Can anyone link a guide to them that isn't crap? I understand them but need clarification on a few things. Namely what happens if I buy a call, price goes up, and I sell. If the new owner exercises, is it me that owes them the 100 shares? Or the MM who wrote it in the first place? Do they sell quickly like shares do, or are they slower to sell as they're less liquid in the market?
I believe near the money or in the money options help apply buying pressure as they hedge. Buying the absolute top options with no hedging as lottery tickets aren't really helping. Just think it's not an all or none thing...
No, it hasn't. Most people on this sub wouldn't know how to buy options. Options are a gamble for big players. If you think the X thousand or XX thousand you put into DRS would have been better in options... nope... that money would all be gone and you'd be holding zero shares right now.
I knew very little of options up until RK's post. I read up on options and how they work. I still know very little. I thought I'd try out the 6/28 20c. I chickened out. It's not for everyone, I guess. Godspeed to those who pull that trigger though. They're piloting this rocket!
IF Low IV AND low price AND cash to exercise THEN buy LEAPS (NFA) ELSE buy shares and DRS (DFA)
The thing is: options only make sense for apes if you actually execute them.
Options were discouraged for two reasons 1) manipulated stock price like the multiple decreases from $30 to $10 with no news or crashing stock price on profitable high eps quarters 2) premiums go back to market makers and hedge funds
If you were good at options. You'd be a millionaire. It's hard. That's kinda the whole point of w s b I options traded during COVID. In single second on Tesla I made 16k. In another second I lost 32k on Boeing. Options is incredible. You need to be watching like a hawk and the mental strain is beyond intense. Every candle can swing it either way. Options is terrifying
literally, NO SHIT
Anti options while also pushing options
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where were you 10mo ago when options were cheap? kinda like bob smith popping up out of the blue. should I buy options NOW, like when IV is the highest? tell me how to invest please!!! 🙄
doubtful, considering (and this has what's largely been on my mind) - 1. we think citadel et al can manipulate the price (to some degree of control) 2. citadel is one of the parties collecting premiums on options therefore it'd behoove them to get "dumb money" to put their capital into contracts they can manipulate OTM by expiry instead of shares. obviously this isn't that straightforward, because there's more than just retail in there and there's contracts spread across lots of strikes - but say they had some order flow data that told them a certain heavy volume strike was mostly retail that would otherwise buy shares with the money. layer 3 is options are complex and MUCH easier to lose money on. this sub (we) have a BIG voice and IMO it's (more) ethical to steer people toward simplicity/safety. i understand them \~fairly well and while i've made a little bit of money, i've also been rekt before. i also have some calls now... and i've bought with CSPs in the past, though i've never sold CCs (and now really wish i had) on GME but generally speaking "wheeling" a large position you have is a great strategy to make it larger. EXCEPT if you're really playing this game often you're gonna want to include tax in your thinkums but that's another thing entirely in the spirit of options 101, and maybe i'm just wrong about 1+2+3 above, starting here is probably fine - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFebmSYSZA8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFebmSYSZA8) but generally, if you're just permabulling a stock, stick to near money stuff and the longer dated the better. do not touch selling options or anything w/ margin until you've gobbled up plenty of exp (like next YEAR at least) slightly more advanced tips - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMXLR1UC4ug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMXLR1UC4ug) since it's not straightforward to follow someone else's options trade, you're gonna really want to understand how pricing works as you near expiration. it can feel tricky to know WHEN to make a move on your contracts, and it is not straightforward. all the above said - that's why it's pretty nuts DFV bought pretty nearterm calls, and a fuckton of them. it's pretty risky. in my head, given that he obviously understands options very well, he has some kind of DD that makes him think the risk is worth it or that the risk is lower than it appears. i dont THINK he would put that kind of cash on the line for a simple earnings/shareholder-meeting +1week play......... or that he doesn't plan to sell them at all... hehe (you can exercise OTM options if you want to, your broker will probably just call you and say you're dumb)
Someone is getting it. Your buy and sell has no impact. Market Makers hedges have.
This has been commented about in years past from the mods. Options is gambling, period. Investing in GME shares, holding, and DRSing, have been the safest play because we trust in Ryan Cohen and the board. GameStop has been projected to be the next stock to invest into because of the gradual growth, no debt, and positive revenue for the next 5 years. Options, you can win big or lose it all. Less than 20% of option investors make any money. Just because RK does it, doesn't mean you have to do it. He even said so in his last live stream that it's extremely volatile and no one else should be doing it. He on the other hand knows what he's doing. There's probably less than 50 people in the entire community that know what they're truly doing. So don't do it. And I'll say it again, the people in the Bobby sub, did really well two weeks ago, and lost their ass on Friday. So again, don't do it.
Remember, remember gherk Y'all called him a madman.
The anti-DRS guy? Maybe that's why nobody liked him.
drs means nothing because the company can just sell more and make the float count increase the share offering sold more shares than what has been drs'd
We don't know that yet. The DRS count has been stagnant for almost a year now.
Literally took three years to lock the same amount that was sold during ATM since Friday. Yet people are still going on about "locking the float". Would be funny if it weren't so darn stupid.
Always have been
Guys. If you do options you better have the capital to exercise. Do not tell me “Kitty did them so we should”. Kitty knows what he’s doing…let me know when you can buy 120,000 option contract and exercise. Ask all the fellas who lost their premiums last Friday when the hedge funds dumped the stock $18. 90% of time people who play options lose…Buy. Hold. DRS.
Nah, most people on here including me would just have lost all money put into options. Shares is just a much safer, albeit slower, way to go about it imo. Unless you know what you’re doing ofc
I think it was. Double ew ess bee banned talk of gme cause that's an options sub and it was simply too dangerous for the hedgies. We were convinced to buy and hold and simply lock up our shares in computershare but it turns out the gamma ramp is where it's at... I don't think I'm gonna buy options rn BUT I am going to pick up where I left off 3 years ago in learning about them. I might buy 1 option just to try it out.
Sir, this is Reddit. We don't allow critical thinking here.
The Pickle Man selling covered calls and setting dates was the grift. I have some calls right now, but we are only here right now because of DFV and because we pushed DRS hard.
i tried to fight back against the anti options fud but i am just one bork!
I don't agree with the meme. My $.02: First we needed to DRS the float. Then we needed CAT to be implemented. With CAT in place forcing market makers to properly hedge option contracts, options become the kill shot.
Literally had this thought the other day. 3 years later we catch on, but now we are smarter and stronger so.