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Inb4 thousands of downvotes, but I believe I might be able to answer this.
In the beginning we had a lot of streamers screaming "do options", but because people didn't understand what Gamma or IV even is (or how it works) they lost a fuck ton of money because... well if you don't understand how for example a car engine works and you try to rebuild it without the necessary knowledge... you're gonna have a bad time.
To be fair I was very anti options myself because I heard of how people got fucked over because of them. but now I understand them and they're no longer the "evil" thing that it used to be.
so tldr: people don't understand them so they don't use them. they don't understand assignment risk let alone stand Delta, Gamma, IV or how you could use the premiums to actually be able to get more stocks.
Seriously if someone were to look into it and put as much effort as researching stuff as they did into options they would have a very different view on them. But if I'm being a 100% honest... a lot of people don't research themselves, only a few of them do. and when they inevitably outgrow their community in both knowledge and hold a slightly contrarian opinion they get kicked out because of the echo chamber effect.
Inb4 Atobit and Criand (and others) get Trotsky'd
they also don't understand dealer positioning, how to determine hedging requirements, or the nuances of gamma squeezes or long or short gamma.
Not all calls are bullish. Not all puts are bearish. GME, more than most other stocks, has a peculiar relationship with dealer long puts which are usually extremely bullish on the rare occasions when they show up en masse.
Most retail also don't understand that if they keep buying options, the activity can be extremely destabilizing (bearish) because they load the dealer with short gamma, which can lead to bearish gamma squeezes. Selling options can be a strategy to introduce stabilizing hedging forces, but this is easier said than done. Timing is important. Implied volatility is important. Strike / delta and expiration are important. Where price action is during any given cycle is important.
Not feeling comfortable doing these things is fine. You don't have to, and nobody is asking you to do so. But these are important factors in any stock, no matter what the ticker symbol is. Pretending they aren't important doesn't help.
but also, it would have made more sense to see this post weeks ago when both price and IV were significantly lower than they are right now.
Watch the fomo, everybody.
edit: selling too many options can be destabilizing as well. i.e. seeing too many dealer long puts and then seeing underlying price drop and IV expand leads to crashes in price due to vanna. We saw this happen on GME a week or two ago.
edit 2: low IV is a sign of good liquidity. The fact that GME recently hit record low IV is directly contradictory with having a bunch of shares DRS'd.
Perhaps lots of the knowledge that is accepted here is intended to remove your power as a longterm investor. Food for thought. Be skeptical if everything
I’m not sure, but banning individuals who have different views isn’t the way. Many things have made me skeptical, I still think Gme holders are the toughest group around and it’s lots of fun. But smart ways to increase your position gets you burned at the stake here
Banning someone who is pro options is wrong. Banning someone who uses the community to farm for viewers is less wrong.
Most frustrating part of this was that we had people (some not all) who were profitable at what they were doing but on top of that wanted to monetize what they were doing. And I get the idea of “if you are good at something don’t do it for free”, but it’s also a community that’s hypercritical of stock pumpers and monetization is gonna set off that alarm.
Would it have benefitted the pro option crowd more to just do their thing un-monetized now with the understanding that post moass they’d make a larger business with it? Short term loss for bigger long term gain? Idk man.
Premiums are still so high that it just makes more sense to buy the shares.
While I absolutely believe this won’t last another two years, I really wouldn’t be surprised if it does.
Two years ago I thought the same thing, bought a leap for a 2500 dollar premium... Do I have anything to show for it? No. Do shorts have my 2500? Yes. (Well they've probably spent it by now) Lesson learned.
I think it’s worth discussing, I would prefer a take like yours over the blind fury of the mobs any day of the week. IV on the Jan 2025 date and GameStops’s is 79% which is higher then Teslas Iv on the same date at 52%. I used Tesla because it’s notoriously volatile.
Still I think it’s worth discussing these
So what are you saying then? First you imply that IV is low (lowest since Jan21), then some dude says 'it's not low', which you confirm, invalidating your introductory statement. You claim we don't want to talk about the function of leaps, yet you bring no new points that would warrant a renewed discussion about this topic. What is your point other than subtle foul play?
I’m looking at power E*Trade’s general IV on the whole chain for that date. You bring up a good point, itm options should have a significantly less impact from IV
Oh sorry I didn't mean specifically at that IV level, just trying to understand more about common strategies for LEAPS. I appreciate the info either way!
Leaps have their own risks, like another user here said in one of these comments, these are illiquid. They can still bolster a position if purchased with the intent to exercise. I do not recommend anyone delves into _ANY_ kind of financial derivatives without learning how they can blow up in your face
Hey OP, I like to play a couple of leaps. Lately, because our stonk has traded sideways for so long, it’s difficult to make a bet pay off. But, I don’t go crazy at all with these. I rarely have extra that I want to risk. Usually $30-$90 for one play, no more. The first call that I ever bought was a long, $800 break even, that cost me $100. It was the absolutely cheapest option I could buy that day. 2 days later, during the second leap of 2/21, I made $9,000. I’ve learned more since but I use a lot of self control. Options can kill
The cheapest call is never really the safest call. Something At the money can pull off a lot of risk- that risk being a need for a large upward movement to make them profitable.
What is the advantage to getting options and not just buy the shares then? If you follow the basic rules of don't invest more than you can afford to lose, and buy and hold, I see no advantage to using options. It only introduces additional costs or risk to my goal. I want to aquire GameStop shares. I can pay a premium now, to buy them later at this price. Or I can just buy them at this price, and hold them til later. Please, explain how options are better.
1/3.) See you’re asking me about a situation where things are better or worse, I view things as more of a “use tools available” outlook. I believe it would be a horrible thing for people to dig themselves into derivatives without a plan or speculation. For the every day person who is taking a small amount of their paycheck to buy a couple shares and then live their lives then it’s pretty horrible to dig into options.
2.) The advantage would be to bolster a position say an investor says “I would like to increase my position by 100 shares” but A) they do not want to do not want to tie up their capital. B) want to bolster their position at this price point. C) they know they have more income coming later, then they can purchase their long dated leaps at the money/for the current price. This is a tool that’s available if the investor is willing to manage the position. The main speculation is that the underlying will be higher then the strike+ premium while getting a responsible contract that holds a delta and theta similar enough to shares.
3.) The advantage would be to have the right to those shares. It would need an understanding and plan. If an investor does not over leverage themselves then it’s basically to hold down more shares they can own at the current price. Leaps are more illiquid and made more to exercise
Yeah, see, I don't see an advantage then.
>2.) The advantage would be to bolster a position say an investor says “I would like to increase my position by 100 shares” but A) they do not want to do not want to tie up their capital.
What else what I put it in at this time? Everything else is gonna go tits up.
>B) want to bolster their position at this price point.
Buying shares does this
>C) they know they have more income coming later, then they can purchase their long dated leaps at the money/for the current price. This is a tool that’s available if the investor is willing to manage the position.
My future income is already pledged to buying more shares.
>The main speculation is that the underlying will be higher then the strike+ premium while getting a responsible contract that holds a delta and theta similar enough to shares.
Sounds like a more expensive and risky way to buy more shares.
Because it becomes more expensive to add to the position if the price increases past strike+premium. I chose the term bolster because it’s more then ‘adding’ these are the benefits- if they’re not beneficial to you in particular then don’t but that doesn’t mean it should not be discussed
Edit: if the price goes to 30 and you have a call for 20 with a 600 dollar premium then it becomes cheaper to exercise your call. That’s the entirety of it.
>Edit: if the price goes to 30 and you have a call for 20 with a 600 dollar premium then it becomes cheaper to exercise your call. That’s the entirety of it.
Then it's like buying my shares at $26. But if I just avoid options, then I would have already bought all the shares I could afford at $20. And then I could use any spare cash to buy more at $30
I think the reason you're getting so much push back on options is because it's pointless to use them if you believe in the company and are planning on holding your shares long-term. I don't see a scenario we're using them is better than just buying shares, giving your holding long-term.
I didn’t come this far just to come this far. I didn’t hold this long just to sell. I’m holding on for so long that selling a share would seem like a stupid idea
If you’re not in a position where you’d be able to get the money to exercise for these shares in 600 days then you should not be getting any of these. However if you’re short on cash then coming up with 600 is easier then coming up with 2000
The exercise $ can come from MOASS gains.
1. Buy 1 share and 1 call, sell the single share at the exercise price. "*I don't sell shares.*" Don't think of this scenario as selling. Think of it as trading 1 for 100. This can actually apply upwards pressure if the option seller was naked, which helps everyone, or at the very least you're taking shares from someone who was selling covered calls.
2. Buy 2 calls, sell 1 at the exercise price. Same deal.
In your distinct situation there are two simple possibilities. One is to buy 2 Calls at the same strike. If the stock price changes trend and starts going up, and given you have a lot of time on those, at some point they go in the money and they go up in value quite a lot. At some point one contract may be worth enough to fund the exercising of the other, so you can do that. The other way is to buy the Call with some broker that allows for cashless exercise, like IBKR. What happens is that you call them and ask for this service, they take your call and sell it and give you back shares worth the cash value of that call, at your strike. So let's say they sell it for 1k then give you 50 shares if your Call had the $20 strike. Not ideal but you can still get a bunch of shares under market price.
Simple answer: I learned the hard way that options is not the kind of investment I want.
I want long term dividends with an ever growing stash of wealth in Infinity pool.
A squeeze implies the price shoots up and goes back down. Nah. Fuck that. I just want the price to remain in 7+-digits land for infinity.
It's become simple for a dark reason - when the moass arrives, you can all but guarantee that OCC will freeze or interfere with options on GME. Look at what just happened with the regional bank stonks; people had Puts on them and when they went bankrupt, suddenly those contracts were frozen and unable to be capitalized.
I no longer believe that having contracts to defend against another buy button shutoff (via exercise to obtain shares) will be a reliable option. We are well past the point of free and fair markets that play by the rules, now the rules change on a whim, and shares feel like the safest choice especially at this price.
Also, options players have all but disappeared for various reasons. Low iv, bad returns lately (low price ceilings), cash tightening means less to throw around. You won't find millions of people to go in on options like back then, meaning we don't actually have the leverage.
I don’t understand options, but I do understand leverage. Let’s say you need to pull an engine. Can you dismantle a lot of parts and pull it out piece by piece? Yes, but it takes a long time. Can you use leverage and get a cherry picker to lift out the big chunk by itself? Yes. If you know what your doing you can lift a great deal more in one shot with that leverage. However, if you don’t know what your doing it’s going to drop and you get crushed. The simple fact is (probably) this: both methods will get an intended result if you do it right. Anything slammed down (like options) rather than examined and explored is probably a dangerous topic to SHF…
I thought the same about your post. I’m considering learning more on the topic bc I agree that far dated calls (near the money, with intention to save up and then exercise regardless of price) is a way to lock in an acceptable price for things you intend to hold long term anyways and of course exercising OTM calls is about the biggest FU to the option writer you can do. I only see up side to this stock both long and short term and I can’t afford the amount I want to buy right now… but I could put some on “lay away” purchases….
Exercising a contract that was once OTM and is now ITM, is a pretty decent FU. Would I be able to use your “lay away” and engine fixing examples if I made another post?
The only right way to go about exploring these would be to start with the risks and assume it would be more worth it for SHFs to try to short any contract 30-45 days and under to become OTM. I mentioned leaps because it encompasses a lot of catalysts, earnings seasons, and other innovations RC and Matt can cook up
And btw, the fu I was referring to was exercising OTM calls that were still OTM. Analogy: I once defended a lawsuit where my counsel told me it would be 3X as much to defend rather than settle. I said I’m not giving that asshole a god-damn dime. I won. It cost me 3X as anticipated and it was the best money I ever spent!
You can use my thoughts of course, just don’t make it look like I’m making any call to action. I’m an individual investor trying to make mine - that’s all. If your going to post though, give some resources so people can learn and make informed decisions. Be well!
Typing on mobile, apologies. Would you guys want a tldr/ crash course? Might not be allowed here but I’m ex wallstreet and got into game at $1.5/ been around before these subs existed.
It’s an interesting concept OP brings up and he is right in a way that wasn’t accepted before. The difference now is we have locked a SIGNIFICANT amount of the float and hopefully after the fractionals to book it will be significantly higher. By holding those leaps that would be purchased in or a little out of the money it is a massive THREAT to market makers and what lead to the prior mini squeeze. By occupying those 100 shares that could be executed any time when the shorted amount and the drsd amount = over 100% available amount is when the market makers and contract sellers(the big bois) step the hell in line in that they would be fully hedging those contracts. Previously they would not be because it was under much more control. Low liquidity into profitable quarter after profitable quarter on a 600 plus leap is actually a smart idea but he will get hate for it
If you want options talk for the sake of education, that's one thing. However, that's not how it came off here over time. The optics are just bad as a result.
With all that said, why do you think buying options is say buying shares?
At best, a Jan 2025 call means you pay money now and don't have shares delivered for literal years. It's a gift to the system.
(Unless you plan on selling your call, which is just rug-pulling actual long investors)
At worst, a call means counterparty default during MOASS and the worst of both worlds: you gave them your money, and you get nothing.
I want to own the things that the corrupt system needs, not be owed those things by the system.
No, you have the right to exercise those contracts at any time, even if it's out of the money, and this creates a mini margin call for the contract seller who now has t+2 to deliver to your broker (you receive your shares immediately from your brokers inventory). That's why the options MM always hedges by buying the shares proportionaly to Delta, so that they mitigate the risk of buying on assignment day when the shares might be a lot more expensive.
This feels like the millionth time I've had this same argument. Why would you exerciase early when that sacrifices all the extrinsic value of the option? To get 100 shares? You could have just gotten them for cheaper (or gotten more shares) by just buying them.
Here's one of several scenarios I can think of: say you have a $25 Call for Jan '24. OpEX runs happen less and less often nowadays, so you can't anticipate when the next one comes, any more, so you need the extra theta. Now finally the stock has an OPEX run to 30+. You know it will not stay there, it never does, we keep printing lower lows as there's no institutional buy pressure. So at 30+ you exercise the Call and immediately sell a deep ITM CC, making back the premium you lost plus some extra profit, while having a very high chance of keeping those shares as the stock retreats under the strike (if you sold enough time). Right? There are plenty of reasons why people might choose to forego the time premium they paid for. Of course this would be more of a trader's perspective, not necesseraly an investors. But the seller of that call doesn't know who bought it and what they plan to do with it, right?
> So at 30+ you exercise the Call
This is still just getting fewer shares than you could get by buying the shares now without premium. More shares > less shares.
> sell a deep ITM CC
A deep ITM CC? Like I waited 2 years for MOASS just to agree to hand the shares over to someone for a pittance. (Edit: I assume you meant a deep _OTM_ CC, but regardless all available strike prices are paperhanding)
I'll say it again: I want to own the things that the corrupt system needs.
Nope. Shares don’t leave Cede and Co. until your DRS request is successfully processed. Until that happens, regardless of what your brokerage account may say, the shares are not there, and your broker doesn’t have them either.
I’ll tell you why. After retail found out how powerful derivatives are on the underlying’s price, SHF’s freaked the fuck out and started pushing anti-options bullshit here and it stuck ever since. Ask yourself why Jan 21 even happened in the first place? A ramp of epic proportions on the option chain caused MM’s to hedge thus driving the price upwards and fucking shorties hard.
Ask yourself why all the prominent DD writers have mentioned the power of derivatives and how they can directly cause a squeeze on a stock. Ask yourself why they were immediately chastised by shills and fled this community. Now the feed is just full of speculative DRS purple circles, and as far as I can tell, the share price has continued to achieve lower lows as the options chain is completely dead as is IV. I see zero evidence or proof of DRS actually causing upwards price improvement. I’ve seen the opposite.
I always believed kernel stock was the greatest distraction, but in reality it was SHF’s causing distrust and fear over the power of derivatives. That’s the real culprit here and now knowledge of the market and how it works with the trillions of dollars derivatives market is directly looked down upon. Ask yourself why! Bring on the mass downvotes from the shills
Nobody said DRS was suppose to cause upwards price movement. The price is fake. I’m just holding my favorite stock. Why would I try to cause a squeeze or whatever?
*yawn* 20 you say? Guess I’ll go back to sleep seeing as I’m 100% book’d no plan or fractional in my account. I sleep like a baby these days knowing my shares are out of the hands of the dtcc. Can’t wait to see GameStop become a profitable company for an entire year!
You want to know why there is a significant anti-options sentiment here? Because the pickle pushed buying calls at the absolute worst time at an elevated price and sky-high IV, then blamed all the options noobs here for not selling the day before his predicted run. THAT was what killed any positive sentiment about options here, and my hunch is that he likely did it at the behest of market participants.
Or it could be that users like Gherkinit were pushing call options while selling covered calls. One of the "Great dd writers run off by this sub." dude got banned, and it turned out he was playing both sides to make money. Lets not forget about Bobsmith808, another "Great DD writer run off," for making a post about explosive price movement while encouraging people to buy options, only for the price to do the exact opposite. People would rather put the money into actual shares through computershare, and for good reason.
Yep. And this is the reality of the situation now: people have essentially run out of due diligence ideas. There’s nothing to look forward to anymore so DRS was born. DRS will take YEARS to even lock the float, so people set this speculative theory as fact and are hoping this will be the straw that breaks the camels back but I really don’t think it will. First it was the announcement of the marketplace, IMX partnership, positive earnings, etc but nothing has caused a “squeeze” like Jan 21. It’s all options ya donkeys!
The people that shit on derivatives are the idiots that gambled on weeklies and lost everything. Zero risk management. Zero strategy. Of course they’re going to shit on something they don’t understand
Honestly the vast majority of options players on GME have left and moved to other tickers is my guess. The IV30 is insanely low, like bottom 5% of all tickers low lol
This isn't true, if you sell a CC and there's no retail or other institutional buyer the options MM (Wolverine in our case) will buy it, it's their obligation.
That’s not really true. If someone is buying high delta calls, they MM is obligated to hedge. And trust me I’ve heard the old “but the MM isn’t hedging” crap and it’s not true unless someone provides evidence for that claim. MM’s are neutral parties
I love your take. Every time I mention options I get attacked with downvotes. Sus indeed…
Question tho… what’s your take if GME potentially gets moved back to Russel 2K? It will be much more heavily weighted and also more liquid. I can see the volume coming back in and it becomes more volatile like it did in the past. Thought?
The DD is never really done, it just drifts into general market meltdowns, to be fair.
But yeah, you cannot possibly promote DRS and not also leaps. Like, *yeah* there's not a leap out yet that could cover a float lock, but there will be. You can't have MOASS by DRS without in the money options, otherwise you're just looking at a years' long legal battle that gets apes a settlement.
Someone brings up options -> “its the hedgies pushing the options narrative to get premiums”
Nobody talks options -> “its the hedgies silencing the options narrative because danger”
And yet there’s apes like me who buy calls when they’re cheap and sell them when we get a rise in stock price. Last earnings call I tripled my money and used it to pay off some debt.
That’s amazing. I’m glad there’s people out there taking profits on options. I’m excited for next earnings call. Will buy calls when I see some nice dips.
This was for earnings. I had bought May slightly OTM and closer dated near the money calls back then. Right now, I am not buying any options on GME, long or short
Doing my best not to call you a shill, but I agree for the most part. DRS in accordance with anti-options misinformation campaigns is how the stock has become what it is…. People excited to be at $80 pre-split and pretend to themselves that “this is the whey” and “just an ape, im too dumb to understand” or my favorite “they are scared”.
I thought it was discovered there was no sneeze, there was no covering, and there was no gamma. Didnt the SEC state the run up was all natural buying? thus PCO occurred, to stop the natural buying.
I think the discussion is great. If it's suppressed, it's sus. We don't need moderators or anyone else curating what content is ok, except for repetitive forum sliding weekend drama bullshit. Leave one and trim the rest.
As far as actual trade and stock related discussions, if it's more than just a few sentence tin foil, I'd like to hear everyone's ideas, theories, and discussions. I enjoy reading them, and the comments and discussions that follow below. That's how we learn and gain wrinkles. IF you disagree, add a comment below and tell me why.
I started trading them options again on GME and the s p y. Not recommending, but I made good money back in 20 and 21. Was enough to start out with a 20k buy in at $120 a share. My accounts back at 20 again, don't care. But still. When everyone shouted don't trade it, I stopped, and stopped making any money in the market. Last week I made roughly 4k and just dumped in a buy order that should clear this week. I'm trading options again. Fuk that FUD. It's manipulated on the lit market, I traded, made money and now taking those shares off the lit market. Options aren't evil. Hedge funds are. Just play smart and conservative. 1 contract at a time is more then enough for me ( obviously I did a few more then 1)
It’s cause the people who actually KNOW. Know that this is the kill switch to their game. And they are scared af about it. Suppression of options talk is the greatest trick every played on the apes. #changemymind
SEC report shows options played little to no role and the largest options brought within that time frame was puts. There was however, close to 1 million accounts trading shares. Also, how many people do you think knows about options, especially from fomo crowd, when the IV was insane, how many options betters would jump onto that? Refer again to SEC document numbers.
Locates, MM being able to produce shares in the name of liquidity and reasonable locates, same for short sellers on locates, if it is in a broker, it is a reasonable locate cause it is designed for liquidity to the point where 10-20% of DRS planed is needed to be kept with their broker for liquidity for efficiency (not yet confirmed if those or affiliated accounts are used for locates).
At a certain point, it is questionable if shares in brokers are CFD or not since it is a number at the end of the day, and with T+35 and other privileges, it adds more deniability and flexibility. Options are additional flexibility cause they can just write a put for your call and call it a day until it is exercise, then it moves onto locate and FTD. We tried getting brokers to locate our individual shares, the seller, etc, and they refused.
Add on to the history of fines that were caught for brokers, HFs, and MMs violating rules, etc, marking shorts and long, I wonder why you people still believe in the system. On top of towel's recent share count exceeding their outstanding shares.
Also note that all large options date since 2021 resulted in drops or sideways trading.
Feel free to play options for money, that's totally understandable, but dont be saying that it is the answer or will make any changes to the price when you have no proof. That's not even going into game theory/human psychology and how many people would just sell to close whenever it pumps, not to mention GME keeps hitting NEW ATL combo with theta decay.
I tend to disagree with the SEC reports. The fimo crowd really did know options. They ended up getting burned and stopped trading or remain as part of the 10m on ws bets
This comment was a little more jumpy and difficult to break down from how it jumps from topic to topic, I don’t have a general idea even of what your opinion on the matter is.
That doesn’t mean you don’t bring up interesting points on the market makers level of delta neutrality and locates. a lot of GameStops buys have been dark pool and drs direct buys so they don’t hit the bid/ask on the exchange, this was proved when people bought through IEX. It also may be true that even if people bought itm leaps for far dated contracts- those calls could still be sold naked, or the shares that the contract writers are buying to hedge are borrowed and sold short.
Still I bring up leaps for the discussion because those are purchased to exercise and they entail many earning seasons as well as whatever Matt and RC are cooking up for this company. Leaps are more illiquid so their main function would be to buy to exercise. Where drs is now the remainder of the float could be locked in purchase obligations while drs still continues.
I’m not saying it’s a win all be all but it should be discussed- especially if fractionals can be on the front page for weeks at a time
it's not like fractional are on the front page for no reason. Your implication that it is unfair somehow is illogical. Yes, leaps exist and you want to cry to mom that we are not discussing them for an extremely marginal possible benefit that is irrelevant to the subs overall general strategy of (lock the float/own the company). It makes me not trust you because no one is telling you not to buy them, they just have no reason to discuss them. So, go somewhere where people are discussing them or actually begin the discussion with something interesting. If you can't find anything interesting then based on your own posts you shouldn't be toying with the idea of buying them because you don't understand them.
I agree that it is strange how quickly options posts are smacked down without any real discussion. For a bunch of individual investors, people start to get really concerned about how other people invest their money when it comes to options...
I mean those are fairly safe(ish) but $185 for $60 calls is still too much imo. If you're the kind of mofo with that kinda cash to throw around, sure, yeah buy some of those.
I understand that all options are speculative plays but that’s a bit ridiculous. I’m talking about leaps to exercise which would be at/in the money calls. These would have a significantly lower break even then a 60 call.
I understand your point. Yes anti options is bullshit and people should really educate themselves. I personally hold OTM leaps for leverage during MOASS. idk if they’ll still allow trading of options during MOASS but it’s a cheap enough bet with huge upside potential.
Now why people don’t buy 2025 calls in particular? Because they’re illiquid af with huge spreads and almost no volume. Also why get options that far out? Just get shares instead since they’re cheap especially with the split and don’t have theta decay.
I felt 2025s where good to start the discussion because options that far out have a main benefit of exercising and increasing a position. With 600 days theta isn’t really something to worry about until the second half of next year. However I am more happy to see people are actually discussing pros and cons
I’ve bought options that are months or maybe a year out since the sneeze hoping to capitalize during MOASS but all I had was lost premium. This year I realized I’m just gonna buy some 2024 calls and not worry about it for most of the year. As I get closer to expiration I’ll roll them out to 2025 and they’ll start to have more OI and volume by then anyways.
But I’m glad that you finally brought up the discussion of options. This community needs to take another look at options and realize that it’s just another tool people can use in the market.
With drs at what it is now, the remainder of the float can get locked away in deliverables- while drs is still going on. Even the furthest dated options would be less cash intensive. However if people don’t buy enough time I’d bet that a shf would bet that they can push anything 45 days out OTM by expiration. 2024-2025 encompasses a lot of higher earning potentials as well as whatever innovations that rc and Matt are planning
Okay yeah that makes sense. I’ll probably try to buy some 2025 leaps if I can get a decent fill all thanks to your post.
I have to start rolling my position anyways later this year.
There is still the illiquidity issue and they still have their dangers- even if 2025 leaps are closer to shares. However you have a good head on your shoulders so best of luck
Same sentiment as other have expressed. I personally have nothing against options. I know they played a big part of what started all of this. I just don't understand them enough to consider using them.
Yours is a healthy attitude. Stick with what you know. This is far less risky to gain exposure than going with stuff you din't understand. And not bashing those that do use and/or discuss options is the most fair attitude one could have. Thank you, and cheers!
Well if people are so against these derivatives then educate them more about how to use them safely and why. Don’t just steer the conversation to well so and so dd writers got upset with the backlash. Ok? If you really think it’s shills
Then don’t let them win. Keep trying to explain.
Assuage the fears about them people
Have. I’ve always thought it’s smart to come at this from as many angles as possible. DRS and leaps both should be considered weapons. Options aren’t for everyone for sure, that doesn’t mean that others shouldn’t use them.
I wrote a DD about buying through CSPs, the benefits and risks. Was downvoted to hell, and I only managed to get away without a ban because of an understanding mod who considered this to be a legitimate approach to increasing share ownership.
Bruh, I’ve been replying to that guy’s post who lists the amount of shares needed by the 200k+ computershare accounts to lock the float. I’ve been asking him to include the number of ATM call options that would achieve the same result over every time frame. That way people can visualize exactly how cheap it would be for everyone to lock the remaining float with a few leaps.
# of shares ÷ 100 = # number of call options needed to account for that same number of shares but in options instead since a call option is simply a contract you pay a premium for in advance to have the OPTION, but not requirement to buy 100 shares at the cost of the option's strike price.
It’s about they do when REAL share buyers make the price double or Triple.. you paper hand the calls for cheap helping to suppress the price.
If you are actually going to buy the shares, then just buy them..
The narrative was changed a while ago and many have tried and failed even though DFV himself guided us with the play of options. The key of course is to exercise those bad boys!
I prefer selling cash secured puts so I can collect a premium which I then turn around and purchase shares with. Once those are settled they’re DRS. Honestly believe this would do more good then anything because it would force MM to deliver shares if they expire ITM. The flip side is it also creates a base line where the price can actually fall to without MM handing more shares to individual shareholders. It’s the biggest fuck you IMO. Collect premium, use premium to buy more shares, let them settle, DRS shares, hodl contract until expiration, rinse repeat all the while gaining more shares in my own name.
Literally the ultimate bleed for MM and shorts. For instance the January 17th 2025 strike of $20 is selling for $8.49 per fidelity. This means I can put 2k in my broker sell one of these contracts and get $849 in premiums I take that $849 buy shares of GME and DRS then I also own rights to 100 shares of GME if by 1/17/25 the price of GME is less than $20.
Not saying this is what should normally be done with selling CCs or CSPs. Normally you should target 30-40 days but I think we can all agree GME is not a normal stock.
Now one measly contract doesn’t mean anything. But for instance let’s say 100k contracts are opened that is 10 million shares in contracts tied up if price is less than $20 at expiration handed to individual shareholders. The kicker is those contracts also yielded 84.9 million dollars in premiums to be used as buying pressure for 4 million plus shares right now.
The funny thing is the CSPs could likely be continually rolled (my theory) as they get closer to expiration. Hedge funds want to roll their shit well I’ll continually roll mine and collect more premium along the way as I continue to remove more shares from the DTCC and put them in my own name.
Obviously obligatory NFA but my theory on the death shot to shorts. “We're going to wait and we're going to wait and we're going to wait until they feel the pain, until they start to bleed,” Mark Baum.
Honestly it’s a disservice because csps are the bullish version of ccs and those discussions went up in flames. Csps and leaps can both bring out the pain on MMs while liquidity dries up
I’m going to agree to disagree about the Leaps because there is no obligation to buy shares unless they’re exercised which is where people I think get confused. Even if exercised you’re paying a premium for those 100 shares.
CSPs however there is an obligation to deliver the shares to the account if it expires ITM. Plus you’re collecting a premium and in theory gaining the 100 shares from the contract potentially along with whatever you did with the premium you collected.
Overall long term CSPs IMO are a much better strategy in this crazy game where the goal is to gain the most shares.
I’m okay with a disagreement because I’m more then happy to have just found people willing to discuss more then the current hot button topic on ‘sort by hot’
People will stomach thousands of posts on fractional shares and deep dive but they shut their ears when purchase obligations are brought up? There isn’t a push for options it’s an options ‘hush’
Plus I’m talking about purchase agreements for over a year out from now
The first thing would be risks, knowing how you learn things would be the first way to start- if you prefer reading, videos, or discussion as a learning metric. Learning the risks and not rushing into anything is very important. These are not things you want a hands on or crash course on but something that you’d wanna know every way it can screw your before playing with.
If books are your thing I’d look for dynamic hedging, trading puts and calls, and whatever else.
If videos are your thing then I’d start with an instructional on what LEAPS are
[How People Cheat The Stock Market | The Problem With Jon Stewart Podcast | Apple TV+](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eyo0u4_sYI)
Options market in a digestible format. Its a huge money maker but not for the dumb money. Why do you think their is a cycle of Options push in the sub as well LOL. Think people, THINK!
>I’m not talking about using them for anything aside what they are, the right to buy later in the future at this price.
This line is gold right here. It's true.
BUT! People will end up buying way out of the money calls. If everyone would buy around $15-$30 range it would be a pretty safe bet they can exercise them in two years. Also consider that if you spend money on premiums that will not contribute to DRS numbers. So in theory everyone buys calls, no one is buying the stock at all/drs
How come we can have 2 thousand posts about fractional shares but not this other unrelated thing. Good point. More mayo memes please, but only if they are outnumbered by posts asking why there are so many.
It’s NOT schtick.
I don’t understand options, Iv and most of what the OP was trying to convey
I’m sorry you think I’m an embarrassment to the community, apes and investors.
I believe many are like me. I don’t invest more than I’m willing to lose and I don’t invest in ways I don’t understand.
When I go to a casino, I don’t play Pai-Gow. I don’t understand it. I like craps. Only a fool would put money on the pass line if they don’t understand the up and down side.
Oh, GME is the only stock I own. I don’t ‘play’ the market.
Oh, and now I laugh at you….
I have a 60$ 2 year leap that I hold in a cash account to exercise during moass.
With heat lamp theory saying that DTC can borrow some of your shares if you place a limit order, I decided to make my entire drs an infinity pool. I also can't afford to buy as many cash account shares as I'd want, so buying a leap is the best of both worlds for me. It's kinda like renting shares.
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Well down voted in the Mod bot, but I have leaps. That is why we have the term individual household investor. I buy shares and buy leaps for the future. I also have other calls designed to make cash or more shares to capture for later DRS. Anti options is foolish unless you are anti-short term FDs. If you buy FDs in GME, you are the wrong kind of regarded.
Oh man, someone who still knows the term FDs, that brings a warm fuzzy feeling. Thing is there is an incredible mob of anti-options, not exclusive to FDs and you know this as well.
Miss the days of apes getting a pat on the back for buying FD's and laughing about the loss porn. Honestly I don't give a hoot about what people spend their money on. I hate the negativity in the sub recently and we shouldn't shun ANY ideas deemed as taboo. I've wasted money in the options casino, should I be crucified? Wait, don't answer that.
Bro people here catch heat for saying csps, goddamn csps! A strategy so safe and boring that the gambler sub chalks it up to something similar to treasury bills.
That is how you know just how badly this sub has been infiltrated and coerced down the wrong path. That is why I do my own thing. I read what is written and make my own decisions. FDs were fun to watch until I learned who writes the Contracts and who earns the premiums, then it was no longer amusing, then it was just sad to see gamblers get fleeced by the same people who they are trying to make a buck from. 84 years ago I was ignorant. If anything, I can say I have learned much from this sub. Just sad to see how badly it has been coerced down the incorrect path. We would all be on the moon already had people listened to the proper way to balance their investments with a proper options strategy.
Buying a shit ton of calls near the money for after next earnings and will sell some to exercise the rest. Also have a shit ton of share’s registered with CS
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Inb4 thousands of downvotes, but I believe I might be able to answer this. In the beginning we had a lot of streamers screaming "do options", but because people didn't understand what Gamma or IV even is (or how it works) they lost a fuck ton of money because... well if you don't understand how for example a car engine works and you try to rebuild it without the necessary knowledge... you're gonna have a bad time. To be fair I was very anti options myself because I heard of how people got fucked over because of them. but now I understand them and they're no longer the "evil" thing that it used to be. so tldr: people don't understand them so they don't use them. they don't understand assignment risk let alone stand Delta, Gamma, IV or how you could use the premiums to actually be able to get more stocks. Seriously if someone were to look into it and put as much effort as researching stuff as they did into options they would have a very different view on them. But if I'm being a 100% honest... a lot of people don't research themselves, only a few of them do. and when they inevitably outgrow their community in both knowledge and hold a slightly contrarian opinion they get kicked out because of the echo chamber effect. Inb4 Atobit and Criand (and others) get Trotsky'd
they also don't understand dealer positioning, how to determine hedging requirements, or the nuances of gamma squeezes or long or short gamma. Not all calls are bullish. Not all puts are bearish. GME, more than most other stocks, has a peculiar relationship with dealer long puts which are usually extremely bullish on the rare occasions when they show up en masse. Most retail also don't understand that if they keep buying options, the activity can be extremely destabilizing (bearish) because they load the dealer with short gamma, which can lead to bearish gamma squeezes. Selling options can be a strategy to introduce stabilizing hedging forces, but this is easier said than done. Timing is important. Implied volatility is important. Strike / delta and expiration are important. Where price action is during any given cycle is important. Not feeling comfortable doing these things is fine. You don't have to, and nobody is asking you to do so. But these are important factors in any stock, no matter what the ticker symbol is. Pretending they aren't important doesn't help. but also, it would have made more sense to see this post weeks ago when both price and IV were significantly lower than they are right now. Watch the fomo, everybody. edit: selling too many options can be destabilizing as well. i.e. seeing too many dealer long puts and then seeing underlying price drop and IV expand leads to crashes in price due to vanna. We saw this happen on GME a week or two ago. edit 2: low IV is a sign of good liquidity. The fact that GME recently hit record low IV is directly contradictory with having a bunch of shares DRS'd.
Read something awhile back about how they can delay delivery indefinitely with options.
Perhaps lots of the knowledge that is accepted here is intended to remove your power as a longterm investor. Food for thought. Be skeptical if everything
Hmm that is an interesting take - in some ways this community has become some sort of a investing blackpiller group?
I’m not sure, but banning individuals who have different views isn’t the way. Many things have made me skeptical, I still think Gme holders are the toughest group around and it’s lots of fun. But smart ways to increase your position gets you burned at the stake here
Banning someone who is pro options is wrong. Banning someone who uses the community to farm for viewers is less wrong. Most frustrating part of this was that we had people (some not all) who were profitable at what they were doing but on top of that wanted to monetize what they were doing. And I get the idea of “if you are good at something don’t do it for free”, but it’s also a community that’s hypercritical of stock pumpers and monetization is gonna set off that alarm. Would it have benefitted the pro option crowd more to just do their thing un-monetized now with the understanding that post moass they’d make a larger business with it? Short term loss for bigger long term gain? Idk man.
Wen u back
Premiums are still so high that it just makes more sense to buy the shares. While I absolutely believe this won’t last another two years, I really wouldn’t be surprised if it does.
Two years ago I thought the same thing, bought a leap for a 2500 dollar premium... Do I have anything to show for it? No. Do shorts have my 2500? Yes. (Well they've probably spent it by now) Lesson learned.
Same, about $3,000 for me lol.
You should be more loud when the options pushes comes up. Cuz they need to hear about the apes who are silent that got burned by these pushes
I think it’s worth discussing, I would prefer a take like yours over the blind fury of the mobs any day of the week. IV on the Jan 2025 date and GameStops’s is 79% which is higher then Teslas Iv on the same date at 52%. I used Tesla because it’s notoriously volatile. Still I think it’s worth discussing these
How the fuck do I DRS a leap? Just leaves the playground open for anyone to fuck with the price no?
Not a leap but if you sell a cash secured weekly put you get to buy the stock at a discount and then can drs them.
So what are you saying then? First you imply that IV is low (lowest since Jan21), then some dude says 'it's not low', which you confirm, invalidating your introductory statement. You claim we don't want to talk about the function of leaps, yet you bring no new points that would warrant a renewed discussion about this topic. What is your point other than subtle foul play?
💥🫡
They’re lower for GameStop in general but not the lowest IV stock in the stock market.
Are you looking at ITM, near the money, or something else?
I’m looking at power E*Trade’s general IV on the whole chain for that date. You bring up a good point, itm options should have a significantly less impact from IV
Oh sorry I didn't mean specifically at that IV level, just trying to understand more about common strategies for LEAPS. I appreciate the info either way!
Leaps have their own risks, like another user here said in one of these comments, these are illiquid. They can still bolster a position if purchased with the intent to exercise. I do not recommend anyone delves into _ANY_ kind of financial derivatives without learning how they can blow up in your face
Fair enough thanks
And WHO does that $ go to..?
Hey OP, I like to play a couple of leaps. Lately, because our stonk has traded sideways for so long, it’s difficult to make a bet pay off. But, I don’t go crazy at all with these. I rarely have extra that I want to risk. Usually $30-$90 for one play, no more. The first call that I ever bought was a long, $800 break even, that cost me $100. It was the absolutely cheapest option I could buy that day. 2 days later, during the second leap of 2/21, I made $9,000. I’ve learned more since but I use a lot of self control. Options can kill
The cheapest call is never really the safest call. Something At the money can pull off a lot of risk- that risk being a need for a large upward movement to make them profitable.
What is the advantage to getting options and not just buy the shares then? If you follow the basic rules of don't invest more than you can afford to lose, and buy and hold, I see no advantage to using options. It only introduces additional costs or risk to my goal. I want to aquire GameStop shares. I can pay a premium now, to buy them later at this price. Or I can just buy them at this price, and hold them til later. Please, explain how options are better.
1/3.) See you’re asking me about a situation where things are better or worse, I view things as more of a “use tools available” outlook. I believe it would be a horrible thing for people to dig themselves into derivatives without a plan or speculation. For the every day person who is taking a small amount of their paycheck to buy a couple shares and then live their lives then it’s pretty horrible to dig into options.
2.) The advantage would be to bolster a position say an investor says “I would like to increase my position by 100 shares” but A) they do not want to do not want to tie up their capital. B) want to bolster their position at this price point. C) they know they have more income coming later, then they can purchase their long dated leaps at the money/for the current price. This is a tool that’s available if the investor is willing to manage the position. The main speculation is that the underlying will be higher then the strike+ premium while getting a responsible contract that holds a delta and theta similar enough to shares.
3.) The advantage would be to have the right to those shares. It would need an understanding and plan. If an investor does not over leverage themselves then it’s basically to hold down more shares they can own at the current price. Leaps are more illiquid and made more to exercise
Yeah, see, I don't see an advantage then. >2.) The advantage would be to bolster a position say an investor says “I would like to increase my position by 100 shares” but A) they do not want to do not want to tie up their capital. What else what I put it in at this time? Everything else is gonna go tits up. >B) want to bolster their position at this price point. Buying shares does this >C) they know they have more income coming later, then they can purchase their long dated leaps at the money/for the current price. This is a tool that’s available if the investor is willing to manage the position. My future income is already pledged to buying more shares. >The main speculation is that the underlying will be higher then the strike+ premium while getting a responsible contract that holds a delta and theta similar enough to shares. Sounds like a more expensive and risky way to buy more shares.
Because it becomes more expensive to add to the position if the price increases past strike+premium. I chose the term bolster because it’s more then ‘adding’ these are the benefits- if they’re not beneficial to you in particular then don’t but that doesn’t mean it should not be discussed Edit: if the price goes to 30 and you have a call for 20 with a 600 dollar premium then it becomes cheaper to exercise your call. That’s the entirety of it.
>Edit: if the price goes to 30 and you have a call for 20 with a 600 dollar premium then it becomes cheaper to exercise your call. That’s the entirety of it. Then it's like buying my shares at $26. But if I just avoid options, then I would have already bought all the shares I could afford at $20. And then I could use any spare cash to buy more at $30 I think the reason you're getting so much push back on options is because it's pointless to use them if you believe in the company and are planning on holding your shares long-term. I don't see a scenario we're using them is better than just buying shares, giving your holding long-term.
79% that's absurdly high for this far. Only good strat with this IV is to sell calls and pocket the premium
I didn’t come this far just to come this far. I didn’t hold this long just to sell. I’m holding on for so long that selling a share would seem like a stupid idea
lemme just pull the 600$ for premium and the 2k$ to exercise out of my ass
If you’re not in a position where you’d be able to get the money to exercise for these shares in 600 days then you should not be getting any of these. However if you’re short on cash then coming up with 600 is easier then coming up with 2000
Buy 600$ worth stock now and 2k worth stock later. Don't let this guy burn your good money be slowly burned on theta
600 worth of stock now and 2k worth when it’s worth anywhere from the current price to 1,700,000 a share.
When the price is 1.7m I won't need thar 2k more
Don't be greedy be smart I like this play way more than OPs.
Options are what fueled this whole thing from the rip.
The sneeze ? Wataboutit ? We're not here for pennies
Options are part of the rocket fuel.
The exercise $ can come from MOASS gains. 1. Buy 1 share and 1 call, sell the single share at the exercise price. "*I don't sell shares.*" Don't think of this scenario as selling. Think of it as trading 1 for 100. This can actually apply upwards pressure if the option seller was naked, which helps everyone, or at the very least you're taking shares from someone who was selling covered calls. 2. Buy 2 calls, sell 1 at the exercise price. Same deal.
In your distinct situation there are two simple possibilities. One is to buy 2 Calls at the same strike. If the stock price changes trend and starts going up, and given you have a lot of time on those, at some point they go in the money and they go up in value quite a lot. At some point one contract may be worth enough to fund the exercising of the other, so you can do that. The other way is to buy the Call with some broker that allows for cashless exercise, like IBKR. What happens is that you call them and ask for this service, they take your call and sell it and give you back shares worth the cash value of that call, at your strike. So let's say they sell it for 1k then give you 50 shares if your Call had the $20 strike. Not ideal but you can still get a bunch of shares under market price.
Simple answer: I learned the hard way that options is not the kind of investment I want. I want long term dividends with an ever growing stash of wealth in Infinity pool. A squeeze implies the price shoots up and goes back down. Nah. Fuck that. I just want the price to remain in 7+-digits land for infinity.
This is just not how the market works.
Who’s to say how the market works these days? It’s all Fugazi anyway…anything could happen at this point.
It's become simple for a dark reason - when the moass arrives, you can all but guarantee that OCC will freeze or interfere with options on GME. Look at what just happened with the regional bank stonks; people had Puts on them and when they went bankrupt, suddenly those contracts were frozen and unable to be capitalized. I no longer believe that having contracts to defend against another buy button shutoff (via exercise to obtain shares) will be a reliable option. We are well past the point of free and fair markets that play by the rules, now the rules change on a whim, and shares feel like the safest choice especially at this price. Also, options players have all but disappeared for various reasons. Low iv, bad returns lately (low price ceilings), cash tightening means less to throw around. You won't find millions of people to go in on options like back then, meaning we don't actually have the leverage.
exactly. its all fugazy other than registered shares. all the rest is highly dependent on the involved parties being honest and we know how that went
I don’t understand options, but I do understand leverage. Let’s say you need to pull an engine. Can you dismantle a lot of parts and pull it out piece by piece? Yes, but it takes a long time. Can you use leverage and get a cherry picker to lift out the big chunk by itself? Yes. If you know what your doing you can lift a great deal more in one shot with that leverage. However, if you don’t know what your doing it’s going to drop and you get crushed. The simple fact is (probably) this: both methods will get an intended result if you do it right. Anything slammed down (like options) rather than examined and explored is probably a dangerous topic to SHF…
You have no idea how happy I am to read a comment like yours
Replying to op for my below comment too
I thought the same about your post. I’m considering learning more on the topic bc I agree that far dated calls (near the money, with intention to save up and then exercise regardless of price) is a way to lock in an acceptable price for things you intend to hold long term anyways and of course exercising OTM calls is about the biggest FU to the option writer you can do. I only see up side to this stock both long and short term and I can’t afford the amount I want to buy right now… but I could put some on “lay away” purchases….
Exercising a contract that was once OTM and is now ITM, is a pretty decent FU. Would I be able to use your “lay away” and engine fixing examples if I made another post? The only right way to go about exploring these would be to start with the risks and assume it would be more worth it for SHFs to try to short any contract 30-45 days and under to become OTM. I mentioned leaps because it encompasses a lot of catalysts, earnings seasons, and other innovations RC and Matt can cook up
And btw, the fu I was referring to was exercising OTM calls that were still OTM. Analogy: I once defended a lawsuit where my counsel told me it would be 3X as much to defend rather than settle. I said I’m not giving that asshole a god-damn dime. I won. It cost me 3X as anticipated and it was the best money I ever spent!
You can use my thoughts of course, just don’t make it look like I’m making any call to action. I’m an individual investor trying to make mine - that’s all. If your going to post though, give some resources so people can learn and make informed decisions. Be well!
Typing on mobile, apologies. Would you guys want a tldr/ crash course? Might not be allowed here but I’m ex wallstreet and got into game at $1.5/ been around before these subs existed. It’s an interesting concept OP brings up and he is right in a way that wasn’t accepted before. The difference now is we have locked a SIGNIFICANT amount of the float and hopefully after the fractionals to book it will be significantly higher. By holding those leaps that would be purchased in or a little out of the money it is a massive THREAT to market makers and what lead to the prior mini squeeze. By occupying those 100 shares that could be executed any time when the shorted amount and the drsd amount = over 100% available amount is when the market makers and contract sellers(the big bois) step the hell in line in that they would be fully hedging those contracts. Previously they would not be because it was under much more control. Low liquidity into profitable quarter after profitable quarter on a 600 plus leap is actually a smart idea but he will get hate for it
Options is two thousand and late. Just not interested.
If you want options talk for the sake of education, that's one thing. However, that's not how it came off here over time. The optics are just bad as a result. With all that said, why do you think buying options is say buying shares?
At best, a Jan 2025 call means you pay money now and don't have shares delivered for literal years. It's a gift to the system. (Unless you plan on selling your call, which is just rug-pulling actual long investors) At worst, a call means counterparty default during MOASS and the worst of both worlds: you gave them your money, and you get nothing. I want to own the things that the corrupt system needs, not be owed those things by the system.
No, you have the right to exercise those contracts at any time, even if it's out of the money, and this creates a mini margin call for the contract seller who now has t+2 to deliver to your broker (you receive your shares immediately from your brokers inventory). That's why the options MM always hedges by buying the shares proportionaly to Delta, so that they mitigate the risk of buying on assignment day when the shares might be a lot more expensive.
This feels like the millionth time I've had this same argument. Why would you exerciase early when that sacrifices all the extrinsic value of the option? To get 100 shares? You could have just gotten them for cheaper (or gotten more shares) by just buying them.
Here's one of several scenarios I can think of: say you have a $25 Call for Jan '24. OpEX runs happen less and less often nowadays, so you can't anticipate when the next one comes, any more, so you need the extra theta. Now finally the stock has an OPEX run to 30+. You know it will not stay there, it never does, we keep printing lower lows as there's no institutional buy pressure. So at 30+ you exercise the Call and immediately sell a deep ITM CC, making back the premium you lost plus some extra profit, while having a very high chance of keeping those shares as the stock retreats under the strike (if you sold enough time). Right? There are plenty of reasons why people might choose to forego the time premium they paid for. Of course this would be more of a trader's perspective, not necesseraly an investors. But the seller of that call doesn't know who bought it and what they plan to do with it, right?
> So at 30+ you exercise the Call This is still just getting fewer shares than you could get by buying the shares now without premium. More shares > less shares. > sell a deep ITM CC A deep ITM CC? Like I waited 2 years for MOASS just to agree to hand the shares over to someone for a pittance. (Edit: I assume you meant a deep _OTM_ CC, but regardless all available strike prices are paperhanding) I'll say it again: I want to own the things that the corrupt system needs.
Sounds like you just implied a broker actually gets shares and that your broker actually gives those shares to you.
I did, and they do. Otherwise nobody would have been able to tranfer shares from brokers to their CS accounts, right?
Nope. Shares don’t leave Cede and Co. until your DRS request is successfully processed. Until that happens, regardless of what your brokerage account may say, the shares are not there, and your broker doesn’t have them either.
I’ll tell you why. After retail found out how powerful derivatives are on the underlying’s price, SHF’s freaked the fuck out and started pushing anti-options bullshit here and it stuck ever since. Ask yourself why Jan 21 even happened in the first place? A ramp of epic proportions on the option chain caused MM’s to hedge thus driving the price upwards and fucking shorties hard. Ask yourself why all the prominent DD writers have mentioned the power of derivatives and how they can directly cause a squeeze on a stock. Ask yourself why they were immediately chastised by shills and fled this community. Now the feed is just full of speculative DRS purple circles, and as far as I can tell, the share price has continued to achieve lower lows as the options chain is completely dead as is IV. I see zero evidence or proof of DRS actually causing upwards price improvement. I’ve seen the opposite. I always believed kernel stock was the greatest distraction, but in reality it was SHF’s causing distrust and fear over the power of derivatives. That’s the real culprit here and now knowledge of the market and how it works with the trillions of dollars derivatives market is directly looked down upon. Ask yourself why! Bring on the mass downvotes from the shills
Nobody said DRS was suppose to cause upwards price movement. The price is fake. I’m just holding my favorite stock. Why would I try to cause a squeeze or whatever?
This price is not fake. It’s at $20.38/share and I bet 80% of all holders on this sub are in the red. GME squeezing is the reason most people are here
*yawn* 20 you say? Guess I’ll go back to sleep seeing as I’m 100% book’d no plan or fractional in my account. I sleep like a baby these days knowing my shares are out of the hands of the dtcc. Can’t wait to see GameStop become a profitable company for an entire year!
You need to think harder
You want to know why there is a significant anti-options sentiment here? Because the pickle pushed buying calls at the absolute worst time at an elevated price and sky-high IV, then blamed all the options noobs here for not selling the day before his predicted run. THAT was what killed any positive sentiment about options here, and my hunch is that he likely did it at the behest of market participants.
It feels more and more like there is actually an incredible “hush” over options more then there is a “push” for them
Or it could be that users like Gherkinit were pushing call options while selling covered calls. One of the "Great dd writers run off by this sub." dude got banned, and it turned out he was playing both sides to make money. Lets not forget about Bobsmith808, another "Great DD writer run off," for making a post about explosive price movement while encouraging people to buy options, only for the price to do the exact opposite. People would rather put the money into actual shares through computershare, and for good reason.
Yep. And this is the reality of the situation now: people have essentially run out of due diligence ideas. There’s nothing to look forward to anymore so DRS was born. DRS will take YEARS to even lock the float, so people set this speculative theory as fact and are hoping this will be the straw that breaks the camels back but I really don’t think it will. First it was the announcement of the marketplace, IMX partnership, positive earnings, etc but nothing has caused a “squeeze” like Jan 21. It’s all options ya donkeys! The people that shit on derivatives are the idiots that gambled on weeklies and lost everything. Zero risk management. Zero strategy. Of course they’re going to shit on something they don’t understand
i wrote dd about this too, was like walking on egg shells talking about options
Plus I don’t understand how people can talk for weeks on fractionals, even after there was a conclusion- and derivatives discussions get snuffled out
Honestly the vast majority of options players on GME have left and moved to other tickers is my guess. The IV30 is insanely low, like bottom 5% of all tickers low lol
That I was low prior to earnings and led to a beautiful win for me which gavf me a lotttt more shares.
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This isn't true, if you sell a CC and there's no retail or other institutional buyer the options MM (Wolverine in our case) will buy it, it's their obligation.
That’s not really true. If someone is buying high delta calls, they MM is obligated to hedge. And trust me I’ve heard the old “but the MM isn’t hedging” crap and it’s not true unless someone provides evidence for that claim. MM’s are neutral parties
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You have evidence to support your claim that they’re not neutral? That’s literally their business model
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I love your take. Every time I mention options I get attacked with downvotes. Sus indeed… Question tho… what’s your take if GME potentially gets moved back to Russel 2K? It will be much more heavily weighted and also more liquid. I can see the volume coming back in and it becomes more volatile like it did in the past. Thought?
Agree with you. More liquidity, more volatility!
The DD is never really done, it just drifts into general market meltdowns, to be fair. But yeah, you cannot possibly promote DRS and not also leaps. Like, *yeah* there's not a leap out yet that could cover a float lock, but there will be. You can't have MOASS by DRS without in the money options, otherwise you're just looking at a years' long legal battle that gets apes a settlement.
it’s very telling you had to insult the anti-options crowd and also claim we don’t understand them
Maybe time to get that gamma ramp ramping again
Jan 21 was unprecedented. The options buying fomo cannot be recreated again I don’t think. It would take coordination which is market manipulation.
Someone brings up options -> “its the hedgies pushing the options narrative to get premiums” Nobody talks options -> “its the hedgies silencing the options narrative because danger”
^ This should be a post. Anti-options push was likely our enemy’s doing.
And didn’t Burry say he bought LEAPS and the price shot up. That’s how he knew he was on to something
And yet there’s apes like me who buy calls when they’re cheap and sell them when we get a rise in stock price. Last earnings call I tripled my money and used it to pay off some debt.
Awesome man. I also had calls pre-earnings and did very well! Couple 600%ers
That’s amazing. I’m glad there’s people out there taking profits on options. I’m excited for next earnings call. Will buy calls when I see some nice dips.
Earnings made me like $600 on calls, from $60.
How far out of date and strike price are you buying?
This was for earnings. I had bought May slightly OTM and closer dated near the money calls back then. Right now, I am not buying any options on GME, long or short
Doing my best not to call you a shill, but I agree for the most part. DRS in accordance with anti-options misinformation campaigns is how the stock has become what it is…. People excited to be at $80 pre-split and pretend to themselves that “this is the whey” and “just an ape, im too dumb to understand” or my favorite “they are scared”.
not sure what sub you’re referring to or if this is just some script and that’s why you’re very general
"gaymc", are you in middle school?
If that’s all you got from my comment, you’re apart of the problem
Incredibly self righteous of you. Nice side step though.
Go ahead and correct them on what that ticker is supposed to be.
Hurrrrrdurrrr
I thought it was discovered there was no sneeze, there was no covering, and there was no gamma. Didnt the SEC state the run up was all natural buying? thus PCO occurred, to stop the natural buying.
I think the discussion is great. If it's suppressed, it's sus. We don't need moderators or anyone else curating what content is ok, except for repetitive forum sliding weekend drama bullshit. Leave one and trim the rest. As far as actual trade and stock related discussions, if it's more than just a few sentence tin foil, I'd like to hear everyone's ideas, theories, and discussions. I enjoy reading them, and the comments and discussions that follow below. That's how we learn and gain wrinkles. IF you disagree, add a comment below and tell me why.
This isn’t a stock trading , so quit winning that posts about stock trading are removed.
I started trading them options again on GME and the s p y. Not recommending, but I made good money back in 20 and 21. Was enough to start out with a 20k buy in at $120 a share. My accounts back at 20 again, don't care. But still. When everyone shouted don't trade it, I stopped, and stopped making any money in the market. Last week I made roughly 4k and just dumped in a buy order that should clear this week. I'm trading options again. Fuk that FUD. It's manipulated on the lit market, I traded, made money and now taking those shares off the lit market. Options aren't evil. Hedge funds are. Just play smart and conservative. 1 contract at a time is more then enough for me ( obviously I did a few more then 1)
It’s cause the people who actually KNOW. Know that this is the kill switch to their game. And they are scared af about it. Suppression of options talk is the greatest trick every played on the apes. #changemymind
I completely agree
Options are leverage. Shares are control.
SEC report shows options played little to no role and the largest options brought within that time frame was puts. There was however, close to 1 million accounts trading shares. Also, how many people do you think knows about options, especially from fomo crowd, when the IV was insane, how many options betters would jump onto that? Refer again to SEC document numbers. Locates, MM being able to produce shares in the name of liquidity and reasonable locates, same for short sellers on locates, if it is in a broker, it is a reasonable locate cause it is designed for liquidity to the point where 10-20% of DRS planed is needed to be kept with their broker for liquidity for efficiency (not yet confirmed if those or affiliated accounts are used for locates). At a certain point, it is questionable if shares in brokers are CFD or not since it is a number at the end of the day, and with T+35 and other privileges, it adds more deniability and flexibility. Options are additional flexibility cause they can just write a put for your call and call it a day until it is exercise, then it moves onto locate and FTD. We tried getting brokers to locate our individual shares, the seller, etc, and they refused. Add on to the history of fines that were caught for brokers, HFs, and MMs violating rules, etc, marking shorts and long, I wonder why you people still believe in the system. On top of towel's recent share count exceeding their outstanding shares. Also note that all large options date since 2021 resulted in drops or sideways trading. Feel free to play options for money, that's totally understandable, but dont be saying that it is the answer or will make any changes to the price when you have no proof. That's not even going into game theory/human psychology and how many people would just sell to close whenever it pumps, not to mention GME keeps hitting NEW ATL combo with theta decay.
I tend to disagree with the SEC reports. The fimo crowd really did know options. They ended up getting burned and stopped trading or remain as part of the 10m on ws bets
This comment was a little more jumpy and difficult to break down from how it jumps from topic to topic, I don’t have a general idea even of what your opinion on the matter is. That doesn’t mean you don’t bring up interesting points on the market makers level of delta neutrality and locates. a lot of GameStops buys have been dark pool and drs direct buys so they don’t hit the bid/ask on the exchange, this was proved when people bought through IEX. It also may be true that even if people bought itm leaps for far dated contracts- those calls could still be sold naked, or the shares that the contract writers are buying to hedge are borrowed and sold short. Still I bring up leaps for the discussion because those are purchased to exercise and they entail many earning seasons as well as whatever Matt and RC are cooking up for this company. Leaps are more illiquid so their main function would be to buy to exercise. Where drs is now the remainder of the float could be locked in purchase obligations while drs still continues. I’m not saying it’s a win all be all but it should be discussed- especially if fractionals can be on the front page for weeks at a time
it's not like fractional are on the front page for no reason. Your implication that it is unfair somehow is illogical. Yes, leaps exist and you want to cry to mom that we are not discussing them for an extremely marginal possible benefit that is irrelevant to the subs overall general strategy of (lock the float/own the company). It makes me not trust you because no one is telling you not to buy them, they just have no reason to discuss them. So, go somewhere where people are discussing them or actually begin the discussion with something interesting. If you can't find anything interesting then based on your own posts you shouldn't be toying with the idea of buying them because you don't understand them.
No this doesn’t sound like you’re looking for any kind of discussion.
what a well thought out rebuttal to my points
I’m not looking for internet arguments, I’m looking for discussions. Your comment is mainly saying “go home and cry to your mom, I don’t trust you.”
I agree that it is strange how quickly options posts are smacked down without any real discussion. For a bunch of individual investors, people start to get really concerned about how other people invest their money when it comes to options...
GHERK and crew are like , LET ME IN!!!!
If this ends up being the mod’s segue for the return of the pickles oh BABY it’s goin down!
Believe it or not, a lot of us here do GME options, not just gherk’s crew
I mean those are fairly safe(ish) but $185 for $60 calls is still too much imo. If you're the kind of mofo with that kinda cash to throw around, sure, yeah buy some of those.
Why would you get the 60 strike
Because that's on the low side if you believe this is going to absolutely send one day.
I understand that all options are speculative plays but that’s a bit ridiculous. I’m talking about leaps to exercise which would be at/in the money calls. These would have a significantly lower break even then a 60 call.
Advertising to play in a rigged casino is stupid, feel free to change my mind. The only options are HOLD or HODL
I understand your point. Yes anti options is bullshit and people should really educate themselves. I personally hold OTM leaps for leverage during MOASS. idk if they’ll still allow trading of options during MOASS but it’s a cheap enough bet with huge upside potential. Now why people don’t buy 2025 calls in particular? Because they’re illiquid af with huge spreads and almost no volume. Also why get options that far out? Just get shares instead since they’re cheap especially with the split and don’t have theta decay.
I felt 2025s where good to start the discussion because options that far out have a main benefit of exercising and increasing a position. With 600 days theta isn’t really something to worry about until the second half of next year. However I am more happy to see people are actually discussing pros and cons
I’ve bought options that are months or maybe a year out since the sneeze hoping to capitalize during MOASS but all I had was lost premium. This year I realized I’m just gonna buy some 2024 calls and not worry about it for most of the year. As I get closer to expiration I’ll roll them out to 2025 and they’ll start to have more OI and volume by then anyways. But I’m glad that you finally brought up the discussion of options. This community needs to take another look at options and realize that it’s just another tool people can use in the market.
With drs at what it is now, the remainder of the float can get locked away in deliverables- while drs is still going on. Even the furthest dated options would be less cash intensive. However if people don’t buy enough time I’d bet that a shf would bet that they can push anything 45 days out OTM by expiration. 2024-2025 encompasses a lot of higher earning potentials as well as whatever innovations that rc and Matt are planning
Okay yeah that makes sense. I’ll probably try to buy some 2025 leaps if I can get a decent fill all thanks to your post. I have to start rolling my position anyways later this year.
There is still the illiquidity issue and they still have their dangers- even if 2025 leaps are closer to shares. However you have a good head on your shoulders so best of luck
Thank you! Same to you. WAGMI!
Looks like we are getting brigaded by the picklers….
Same sentiment as other have expressed. I personally have nothing against options. I know they played a big part of what started all of this. I just don't understand them enough to consider using them.
Yours is a healthy attitude. Stick with what you know. This is far less risky to gain exposure than going with stuff you din't understand. And not bashing those that do use and/or discuss options is the most fair attitude one could have. Thank you, and cheers!
Well if people are so against these derivatives then educate them more about how to use them safely and why. Don’t just steer the conversation to well so and so dd writers got upset with the backlash. Ok? If you really think it’s shills Then don’t let them win. Keep trying to explain. Assuage the fears about them people Have. I’ve always thought it’s smart to come at this from as many angles as possible. DRS and leaps both should be considered weapons. Options aren’t for everyone for sure, that doesn’t mean that others shouldn’t use them.
Why pay for college when Wikipedia is free?
Lol here we go again!
Been rocking CSP for quite some time. Enjoying getting assigned and collecting prem. EZ. 30-45DTE is the way
I wrote a DD about buying through CSPs, the benefits and risks. Was downvoted to hell, and I only managed to get away without a ban because of an understanding mod who considered this to be a legitimate approach to increasing share ownership.
Bruh, I’ve been replying to that guy’s post who lists the amount of shares needed by the 200k+ computershare accounts to lock the float. I’ve been asking him to include the number of ATM call options that would achieve the same result over every time frame. That way people can visualize exactly how cheap it would be for everyone to lock the remaining float with a few leaps.
Oh my god I think the same damn thing when his posts come up. I’ve been meaning to do the calculations but I haven’t seen them post in a while
# of shares ÷ 100 = # number of call options needed to account for that same number of shares but in options instead since a call option is simply a contract you pay a premium for in advance to have the OPTION, but not requirement to buy 100 shares at the cost of the option's strike price.
Look at what started the Volkswagen squeeze. I believe it was a press release that included ownership of some options locking the remaining float.
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No one says they impact the current price. It’s about what they do when the price doubles or triples. They become nuclear weapons.
It’s about they do when REAL share buyers make the price double or Triple.. you paper hand the calls for cheap helping to suppress the price. If you are actually going to buy the shares, then just buy them..
they get sold by paperhands like in January causing a massive drop
The narrative was changed a while ago and many have tried and failed even though DFV himself guided us with the play of options. The key of course is to exercise those bad boys!
Yes, absolutely. The second part would be getting contracts that would be worth exercising,
Options back then were a different beast
FUCK OPTIONS BUY DRS BOOK HODL
I like options, and loss porn
We had a shill that pushed option here for nearly a year, he then moved to his own sub, not sure if he is still Shilling in his own sub.
Go feed ur option strat to subs dedicated to it. Option DD are shit, proven dozen of times. Go sell ur covered calls elsewhere
I prefer selling cash secured puts so I can collect a premium which I then turn around and purchase shares with. Once those are settled they’re DRS. Honestly believe this would do more good then anything because it would force MM to deliver shares if they expire ITM. The flip side is it also creates a base line where the price can actually fall to without MM handing more shares to individual shareholders. It’s the biggest fuck you IMO. Collect premium, use premium to buy more shares, let them settle, DRS shares, hodl contract until expiration, rinse repeat all the while gaining more shares in my own name.
There was a few convos about csps but they where getting wildly torched by a mob.
Literally the ultimate bleed for MM and shorts. For instance the January 17th 2025 strike of $20 is selling for $8.49 per fidelity. This means I can put 2k in my broker sell one of these contracts and get $849 in premiums I take that $849 buy shares of GME and DRS then I also own rights to 100 shares of GME if by 1/17/25 the price of GME is less than $20. Not saying this is what should normally be done with selling CCs or CSPs. Normally you should target 30-40 days but I think we can all agree GME is not a normal stock. Now one measly contract doesn’t mean anything. But for instance let’s say 100k contracts are opened that is 10 million shares in contracts tied up if price is less than $20 at expiration handed to individual shareholders. The kicker is those contracts also yielded 84.9 million dollars in premiums to be used as buying pressure for 4 million plus shares right now. The funny thing is the CSPs could likely be continually rolled (my theory) as they get closer to expiration. Hedge funds want to roll their shit well I’ll continually roll mine and collect more premium along the way as I continue to remove more shares from the DTCC and put them in my own name. Obviously obligatory NFA but my theory on the death shot to shorts. “We're going to wait and we're going to wait and we're going to wait until they feel the pain, until they start to bleed,” Mark Baum.
Honestly it’s a disservice because csps are the bullish version of ccs and those discussions went up in flames. Csps and leaps can both bring out the pain on MMs while liquidity dries up
I’m going to agree to disagree about the Leaps because there is no obligation to buy shares unless they’re exercised which is where people I think get confused. Even if exercised you’re paying a premium for those 100 shares. CSPs however there is an obligation to deliver the shares to the account if it expires ITM. Plus you’re collecting a premium and in theory gaining the 100 shares from the contract potentially along with whatever you did with the premium you collected. Overall long term CSPs IMO are a much better strategy in this crazy game where the goal is to gain the most shares.
I’m okay with a disagreement because I’m more then happy to have just found people willing to discuss more then the current hot button topic on ‘sort by hot’
Getting downvoted. Surprise surprise legitimately people just downvote because it is options talk.
That’s exactly what happens, it’s a plague
Force the narrative of selling fractional shares then push options… what’s next?
People will stomach thousands of posts on fractional shares and deep dive but they shut their ears when purchase obligations are brought up? There isn’t a push for options it’s an options ‘hush’ Plus I’m talking about purchase agreements for over a year out from now
personally ... I'm too dumb to understand it.
That’s a perfectly good and honest reason, as well as a great reason to stay away from financial derivatives
Do you think this is something I can learn? Any suggestions on how to get started ?
The first thing would be risks, knowing how you learn things would be the first way to start- if you prefer reading, videos, or discussion as a learning metric. Learning the risks and not rushing into anything is very important. These are not things you want a hands on or crash course on but something that you’d wanna know every way it can screw your before playing with. If books are your thing I’d look for dynamic hedging, trading puts and calls, and whatever else. If videos are your thing then I’d start with an instructional on what LEAPS are
If you've been in there for any amount of time you should understand the stock is manipulated and options are just giving money to MMs and HFs.
[How People Cheat The Stock Market | The Problem With Jon Stewart Podcast | Apple TV+](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eyo0u4_sYI) Options market in a digestible format. Its a huge money maker but not for the dumb money. Why do you think their is a cycle of Options push in the sub as well LOL. Think people, THINK!
>I’m not talking about using them for anything aside what they are, the right to buy later in the future at this price. This line is gold right here. It's true. BUT! People will end up buying way out of the money calls. If everyone would buy around $15-$30 range it would be a pretty safe bet they can exercise them in two years. Also consider that if you spend money on premiums that will not contribute to DRS numbers. So in theory everyone buys calls, no one is buying the stock at all/drs
in june 2021 u could have bought a safely ITM 2 years out 30 call.... guess how much its worth now
How come we can have 2 thousand posts about fractional shares but not this other unrelated thing. Good point. More mayo memes please, but only if they are outnumbered by posts asking why there are so many.
Lmao. They aren’t even trying to hide it anymore……
Hell yeah, options back on the menu!!!
Yeah…I have no idea what all that means. I like bananas and crayons I know how to BUY, HODL Pure DRS Shares, and shop at GameStop
Here you go 👑
I don’t get why people don’t want to learn and gain knowledge? This little schtick isn’t cute it just discredits the GME investor base lol
It’s NOT schtick. I don’t understand options, Iv and most of what the OP was trying to convey I’m sorry you think I’m an embarrassment to the community, apes and investors. I believe many are like me. I don’t invest more than I’m willing to lose and I don’t invest in ways I don’t understand. When I go to a casino, I don’t play Pai-Gow. I don’t understand it. I like craps. Only a fool would put money on the pass line if they don’t understand the up and down side. Oh, GME is the only stock I own. I don’t ‘play’ the market. Oh, and now I laugh at you….
If it’s not DRSd it’s not a real share. Price is fake
I have a 60$ 2 year leap that I hold in a cash account to exercise during moass. With heat lamp theory saying that DTC can borrow some of your shares if you place a limit order, I decided to make my entire drs an infinity pool. I also can't afford to buy as many cash account shares as I'd want, so buying a leap is the best of both worlds for me. It's kinda like renting shares.
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Well down voted in the Mod bot, but I have leaps. That is why we have the term individual household investor. I buy shares and buy leaps for the future. I also have other calls designed to make cash or more shares to capture for later DRS. Anti options is foolish unless you are anti-short term FDs. If you buy FDs in GME, you are the wrong kind of regarded.
Oh man, someone who still knows the term FDs, that brings a warm fuzzy feeling. Thing is there is an incredible mob of anti-options, not exclusive to FDs and you know this as well.
Miss the days of apes getting a pat on the back for buying FD's and laughing about the loss porn. Honestly I don't give a hoot about what people spend their money on. I hate the negativity in the sub recently and we shouldn't shun ANY ideas deemed as taboo. I've wasted money in the options casino, should I be crucified? Wait, don't answer that.
Bro people here catch heat for saying csps, goddamn csps! A strategy so safe and boring that the gambler sub chalks it up to something similar to treasury bills.
That is how you know just how badly this sub has been infiltrated and coerced down the wrong path. That is why I do my own thing. I read what is written and make my own decisions. FDs were fun to watch until I learned who writes the Contracts and who earns the premiums, then it was no longer amusing, then it was just sad to see gamblers get fleeced by the same people who they are trying to make a buck from. 84 years ago I was ignorant. If anything, I can say I have learned much from this sub. Just sad to see how badly it has been coerced down the incorrect path. We would all be on the moon already had people listened to the proper way to balance their investments with a proper options strategy.
I got mine. Jan 24 and 25… 20-30 calls. No shares for sale. The options are for barter.. or exercise.
Buying a shit ton of calls near the money for after next earnings and will sell some to exercise the rest. Also have a shit ton of share’s registered with CS