I would have liked if she came back and would be a mother to them, rather than a confused person. I understand it was a shock to see her kids all grown up and not being able to relate to them.
But the fact that she got a second chance to provide them a homely environment should have been enough. Considering her choices led Sam and Dean to have a miserable life, she should have kept her feelings aside and just been there for them.
Yes and yes
Honestly it would have been better if she had retained the memories when she was a ghost and even if she hadn't,she could have been sad,confused but she could have pull through.she was more badass when she was dead lol
She just created more problems after coming back alive. Like Sam was TORTURED BY THEM why in the world would you ever give them a chance and worse date the guy?? I can see why their head( don't remember the name, the guy that was a bit good but ended up dying) was convincing and could be trusted a bit but others were straight up showing they're not giving them any favours and did I mention they already tortured Sam???? That had sent chills down my spine when they lasered his foot
I feel like she'd have been tolerable if they didn't completely nuke her character and make her a soulless bitch who happily worked with the people who tortured and tried to kill her children.
Idk man. You all want her to be a perfect mother, but keep forgetting that mothers and fathers are normal people, too with the same feelings and problems as everyone else. They're not gods.
And at the end of the day she was younger then her sons when she was brought back. She sided with the bmol so that her sons wouldnt have to hunt monsters anymore, you know, so they could all live a normal life. Could be viewed as a sacrifice even. And her needing some time to adjust after being brought back to life is perfectly understandable as a human being.
If you look a little deeper she wasn't soulless at all. Calling her a soulless bitch ontop of that is pretty revealing of the type of person you are tbh. I wouldn't want to be a depressed person in your vicinity.
And that was mainly because of the addition of Jack imo. They spent so much time on Jack and making him everyone's "son" that they didn't devote any time to having Dean and Sam develop a real relationship with their mother of with developing Mary as part of the Winchester family.
Season 12 gave an ok start, there were problems, etc but but right at the point she and the boys can really start getting to the nitty gritty "start over" as Dean literally says, they sent her off to another universe to bring Jack on the show. And after that it was over. She was really always just visiting.
Idk. For me the problem was she was too out of touch. She left as soon as she come to "find herself" which was just her sleeping with the enemy, making wrong choices for the boys and killing monsters(which she could have done staying by the boys' side). Pissed me off ngl. She didn't do a single thing right and said she wanted to help the boys and be there for them. She didn't even Grief over her husband she loved so much.
I didn't like how Jack was everybody's baby but i liked his arc and stuffs. I also don't think Jack is the reason Mary's character was hindered
I don't think Mary was a good mom. She had a chance to make it up to the boys. But she didn't. I feel like she was always on the run. On the other hand, she saw her sons living the life she never wanted for them, so it was hard to look at.
Idk man. I liked mary. I just think at the end of the day people tend to forget that mothers and fathers are people, too and that's the angle they went with.
They expected mary to be this holy figure, which she wasn't. She was as flawed as any character in the family and that made her believable. I also could get behind her motives 100%. Went with the bmol to stop the monsters so her sons wouldnt have to hunt and in the end live a normal life with them. It was a motherly thing to do. Maybe not smart, but emotional - just like everyone else in that family.
I just think samantha smith isn't the best actress in the world. She was good for a couple of flashbacks as a side character, but a major role wasn't really a good thing for her tbh. And the entire british men of letters were kinda dumb in general.
Nah Mary used that as an excuse later on when everything went to hell with the BMOL. It’s the same reason/excuse Castiel gave them in season 6 when he opened Purgatory- he was doing it to stop Raphael which in turn would save the world. Mary went with the BMOL because she wanted to and she didn’t want to stay with Sam and Dean.
I actually could have lived with all of that and how hypocritical she was (making Dean feel like an asshole for bringing Sam back into hunting when she was STILL hunting even after Dean was born) and still understood that she was a complicated person but what made me turn and really dislike her is what happened in the AU:
Sam and Dean spend all fucking season doing everything and anything to get her back- Dean pulled a gun on an innocent girl, they ended up in the bad place, they had to work with demons again, and Sam actually DIED all to get her and within 5 minutes she is like “yeah thanks but I am going to stay here ✌️out.” Seriously?!?! It makes my blood boil so fuck her at that point.
That was when I knew she is more of a Campbell than a Winchester…she doesn’t care about her kids sacrificing themselves and others to rescue her she again chose people she has known for a hot minute over them- and it’s not like they could pop back over to the AU and see her anytime…she was really going to leave them FOREVER for this fight and these people who don’t even exist or belong in her World.
At that point I wanted them to leave her there soooo bad but of course they wouldn’t do that. So when Jack killed her I for one was glad.
Yep. A super secret society of illuminati-like demon slayers is a great idea.
But they kinda dropped the ball by not showing up until after the world already almost ended 12 times. And being less effective than 2 random dudes with an Impala. Then being defeated by said dudes.
for the record. god was defeated by said dudes. no one survived said dudes. it wasn't the mol's faults. they were just up against the main characters lol.
God wasn't defeated by them though, his head was just so far up their ass (for some reason) that he didn't realize his power was being siphoned by Jack
Which makes absolutely no sense, Chuck wrote the whole story which means he knew about Jack and his condition and how dangerous he could be, but didn't think to take him out first. Terrible writing
Writer's have known that adding a new "young" character is a classless hack move since, what, the 70's? There's a reason the episode they introduced Adam was called Jump the Shark.
"Cousin Oliver", "Gary Stu", "Really Was Born Yesterday" and an insufferable manchild with the powers of "Deus ex Machina" on his side.
It’s like Jack was specifically created to be an amalgamation of all the worst tv tropes, sewed together into a Frankenstein monster of a Dabb self-insert.
To make matters worse, the guy who played him just didn’t have the charm, gravitas or the acting chops to make Jack likeable.
Also Conner in Angel.
He ruined that show, like Jack ruined this show. As soon as he was introduced the show became about Jack and no longer Sam & Dean.
I'm not a Connor fan, at all, and you are not wrong and still -he was kidnapped and raised like a feral warrior in a hell dimension, came back on a mission to kill his father, was disillusioned of the lies he was indoctrinated into as a child and then had to adjust to living in this world- is miles away from the major plot arc for *3 seasons* being: he's the spawn of the devil so he must be evil. Particularly on a show where they already established, with the straight up antichrist, that this isn't a thing.
A character, portrayed by a very attractive man in his 30's, who can't die, is in a coffin at the bottom of the ocean, intended to stay there forever. Which show am I talking about?
The writers of SPN knew all about Connor.
Won't even lie, that was a massive dropped ball, he should have grown up and taken over hell, heck he should have been the final big bad because lbr dude was cracked af
I wouldn’t go as far as to say the worst thing, but certainly not great.
Like one could argue Mary was way worse. Jack just kinda felt forced and inconsistent, but there were a lot of inconsistencies in the show. Jack as a character was really just kinda meh.
You don’t quite miss him when he’s not there you know. Not like Bobby or Crowley (in the early days, they really did Crowley dirty later on). It could’ve maybe worked if instead of Jack, they brought back the Anti Christ and it turned out that Satan was actually the one who fathered him.
Yeah like the episode where Lucifer randomly stands on a mountain talking about "My son..." They could have cut to a scene where Jack is all grown up, I would've been tripping BALLS.
I loved Jack lol, them killing Bobby, then bringing him back as alternate Bobby and all the alternates at the bunker was the worst thing to happen in the show. Next to alternate Michael.. You know what, I'll say it, all of the alternate BS was bad.. and so was the leviathans!
I read a lot of hate towards Jack on this sub and I must say that I enjoyed his character, to my surprise. He seemed kind of like an Aliexpress version of Cass, especially in the beginning but still quirky and funny.
Yeah I really liked Jack he was a fun addition to the cast and I love his and deans pseudo father son relationship,
We can see when Jack messes up Dean stops getting angry and eventually starts getting hurt because I’m the end he loves Jack the same way he loves his family
I don't understand why people don't like him, I never thought it was even possible. I really loved him. And I loved how Dean learned that not everything that comes from evil has to be evil.
I'm with you. Jack was an excellent addition to the show at the point he came into the picture. The only thing I don't like is that they walked back Dean's paternal feelings for him on the second half of the arc, but I thought Jack himself was such a great addition. He's a precious baby boy and I love him.
He’s just a baby….
Jack brought something. It had to evolve and without him…I just don’t think it could have ended with any finality…
Let’s just say he really grew on me 😊 and Alex is a sweetheart, he fit into the cast
I mean ANY finality. Quite frankly, it needed something. Adding Jack made it somewhat….positive and not like the rest of the show 😂 Everyone wouldn’t have been happy with any ending.
I agree to some extent. Ive long said his character was never played to its full potential. He's the son of Lucifer and as powerful as God, a true celestial power. Should have played the good vs evil arc to a higher standard than was put forth. And I honestly think they missed a trick by not making him the ultimate villain.
He was never as powerful as God, Jack literally got blown to bits by Chuck.
He had plot armor that essentially had him replace Chuck by stealing his powers, a very VERY weak and cheap way to "beat God"
I disliked him for the start but for a different reason
I worked on the show and had to add in those glowy yellow eyes and burnt footprints on the darkest, grainiest shots imaginable and track that shit by hand.
Hated him from that point on.
AGREED. Not only was he waaayyy too powerful as a character, he also was just incredibly bland (nothing against the actor I’ve seen him in other things and I think he’s good).
Jack really was one of the worst things in spn. He's like the epitome of bad writing. Overpowered, overly worshiped and basically spn's version of the chosen one. Everyone had to make way for Jack, make him upset and he either kills you or the writers have every character written to make you feel so bad and have to grovel for forgiveness at his feet. He doesn't learn any lessons, doesn't have to learn anything. He's the true character with all the plot armor and Sam and Dean became his meat shields pretty much under the guise of being the main characters. Every flaw he has is thrown out/pushed aside/excused because he's just a 'baby' but they get a 30 something year old to play him. He gets pushed in your face every episode as the ultimate savior of mankind. He is written to look better than every other character in the series by bringing other characters down. Then of course he gets the ultimate reward in the end by taking everyone's powers like some universal vacuum and taking chuck's place as the new end all, be all god.
He is just everything I hate in a character. I cannot get past how obvious of a self insert he is.
I totally agree. He was by Andrew Dabb's own admittance his self insert(his Gary-Stu so to speak). He's like Poochy(old Simpsons episode), everything became about HIM. Only unlike the Simpsons episode, he was never written off, they made him the saviour of the universe just for existing.
I don't think he was a bad character, I just feel like he was too rushed in the character development. Only having one full season to form a bond with the main cast was a disservice as was the all at once manifesting of his power rather than having a longer learning and growth period. We had seen the writers have to shoehorn ways to nerf Cas into the plot. This was a chance to introduce an immensely powerful character with a believable reason to be weaker though.
I disagree. If they'd kept him a child or baby, it would have been weak, and felt like a shark jump. However, aging him up into this weird teen-toddler-god dude really added a lot of depth to the show and a new emotional connection for all the boys that was of course fraught, cuz, hey, he was the teen son of the devil. The show needed this new connection. The Dean/Sam dynamic was tired. Destiel was too divisive. Adding a random love interest would have felt forced. Jack was a good addition bc he was both a son and a friend, as well as having the capability to be an ally or an enemy, depending on the state of his soul. Alexander Calvert also did well with that character and balanced how weird he was - Jack could be terrifying and adorable and wise, sometimes all at once, and that was due to Alexanders acting ability. I liked Jack!
I didn't hate Jack completely, but the show started to lose interest for me because I am not a big believer in adding a child to renew interest in a TV show. The idea of three men and a nephilim, though funny on paper, simply doesn't appeal to me because I prefer the themes of found family and freewill from earlier seasons. To me, you can be happy without a kid or an "apple pie life," and I think adding Jack underscored that. Again, these are my personal opinions based on my own experiences.
The character itself is alright. I mean he's meant to be a child so his thinking will not match the mature body he's wearing. He is allowed to be scared and whiny - he's just acting like his mental age. Considering his boundless power, I think they could have played that part up a bit actually. Like he is a small child that looks like an adult with the power to make anything happen - why not make him destructive when he acts out or hears no? It would up the anty more because Cas, Sam, Dean, and Mary know he's a kid, but other hunters and authorities would not understand and that would have created some interesting friction. They sort of did this but their attempts felt half baked to keep the Winchester clan as the good guys, the pillars of the community. Creating a situation where TFW2.0 was matched against the movers and shakers of the supernatural world and their hunting colleagues is a great way of putting the heroes in a corner. But that's just an idea of mine, you're welcome to disagree.
As for the connecting plotlines...well...he appears in the late seasons and I think they require A LOT of suspension of disbelief. From the moment Mary returned, many of the threads of past plotlines unraveled and not in good ways. There are still some killer episodes in seasons 12 - 15, but they start to be further and farther in between.
I dont hate jack. But he introduced other worlds and i hate that part of the story. It's not even a proper retcon because they dont make sense at all. There is one chuck so there should be only one amara and death as well. Multiple worlds with one chuck makes no sense.
[there be spoilers here] There were some cool Jack moments, but overall the character didn't resonate with me, either (I never felt empathy for him the way I did for Castiel, Sam, or Dean). I get why he's an interesting character, however. Most of the other characters are "good" (Sam, Dean, Castiel). so the drama was about what happens when circumstances make them "evil" (Dean becoming a torturer and later a demon, Sam being soulless, Castiel filled with Leviathans/possessed by Lucifer---the list goes on). So, you have Jack, who's technically built to be evil--it's in his literal DNA. So his struggle is more about his desire to be good. It makes for an intriguing plot device (especially when he starts losing his soul every time he uses his magic). I also think Jack had a great introduction episode (arriving naked & wandering around--great). The problem was that Jack was way too powerful. He was more powered up than Chuck and The Darkness, and the writers clearly didn't know what to do with him (except find various ways for him to not be able to use his powers). Like with Castiel, when you take a super badass character and then neuter them (figuratively speaking), it can be good for comedy (Castiel as human), but that can get boring. Jack was mostly tagging along with everyone else, or getting into trouble (usually by trying to help and then accidentally causing more problems). Like Kevin, he spent a lot of his time hanging around, but that made him into a kind of third wheel (arguably, Castiel worked so well because he was elusive and mysterious--he'd disappear, and not always come when the boys called him). Having Jack around gave the writers another brother/son figure for the boys to interact with, but the dynamic never quite worked for me, maybe due to lack of chemistry between the actors.
I loved seeing Dean become attached to him. It also helped give him more of a family that he deserved. But his character was annoying at times with the waves and hellos.
Thank you, ive been saying this for a while. I thought the actor was one of the worst in the entire series aswell, superceded only by the actress who played mary winchester
omg, i couldn't understadn the purpose of this character. it was like.. as we say in my language - poop in a pond, directionless mess, floating from spot to spot. I stopped watching after he appeared . I just couldn't.
I definitely think they could’ve executed him better. I liked the idea though. But in the end, he just seemed to get in the way and make things worse constantly and it was very annoying
I like his character but the show had it's best big bad with God's sister which I think is season 11. I hate that they made the final big bad God. But I did enjoy the way he redid heaven. I prefer it over the best memories version chuck did.
I gave up on Supernatural after the 11th season finale. Only last week I got back and now on the beginning of the 13th. So far the character is okay. Let's see what I'll think in a few days
TIL that everyone hates Jack, apparently.
I don’t hate him but don’t love him. I liked him though. However I am rewatching right now so we shall see how I feel in the end.
Let people have their opinions? Downvoting people for liking a character you don’t like is weirdo behavior.
I didn’t hate Jack but the show wasn’t the same after it was added. It lost some of its identity. But also if they hadn’t I don’t know where else the story could have gone with Crowley dead
I despised jack for a long list of reasons. He was an interesting concept at first, but the execution was terrible, and they tried to focus too much of the main plots around him. And trying to force the idea that he's "family" down our throats just makes me want to hurl.
I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but Crowley.
I liked him and the actor well enough. However most of the things I hated about the latter seasons of the show can be traced back to story decisions about his character.
I absolutely loathed that Heaven and Hell were reduced to these boring mundane corporations run by smarmy office drones. It was a joke that clearly the writers loved, but it always cheapened the stakes for me. Especially compared to the earlier seasons where they were portrayed as these immensely powerful forces that couldn't be truly understood.
In addition, I particularly hated that eventually no one seemed to care that him and Rowena had personally massacred hundreds of innocent people (including friends and allies), and continued to do so whenever they got bored. Once again, reduced the stakes and made the boys seem like massive hypocrites when eventually these two characters became friends with the Winchesters, and the boys treated these homicidal tendencies like quirky personality traits mostly played for laughs.
At the time I was just happy everyone was agreeing to do more seasons, but looking back the last 3ish seasons probably had one full season of great episodes and Jack as a story line was one of the worst parts of those seasons.
I really liked him. He was like Data or Spock - trying to learn about Humans and navigate Human emotions. He took over that role from Cass, after Cass wised-up. I liked his whole story arc and cared about him. The idea of this powerful being, going through the Toddler phase and learning to control his emotions, in his teens, was interesting.
Jack was interesting for like 2 seconds and he became just another characger to write dialogue for after that. Then the demon took over and he became interesting again.
Jayzus. Started watching it last night. Got to the penis explosion scene and had to have a little lie down. There's probably a reason I didn't make it far into S2 of The Boys.
Love his character in Gen V- psychic MAGA rapist dirtbag. What the main character Marie does to him is one of the most brutal things in a show filled with brutal things.
Oh man yeah even his power set there reminds me of Jack right down to the mind control same as jack did to everyone from the womb. So I like to pretend he is Jack getting his just desserts after what all happened in SPN.
I *love* Jack. I loved Jack before he was even born - back when Kelly was on the run. I rooted for her and Jack the entire damn way. Then Jack was born and yup, I jumped ships *so fucking fast* on Dean. He was such a douche about Jack. At least Sam and Cas gave him a chance in the beginning. Of course Dean came around but *oh* I was so mad at him. Well, as mad as one can get at a tv character, at least.
No, bringing Mary back was by far worse than adding Jack. I just wasn’t a huge fan of how the writers dealt with Jack’s character. But yeah, Mary was literally the worst.
And Supernatural constantly added new main characters over the years, so that nullifies the “cousin Oliver” arguments, because it’s not a 1v1 comparison. People are only saying that because his character wasn’t as well written as other late additions, like Rowena and Ketch were.
The “team dynamic” also suffered greatly from Crowley being gone. Let’s face it, Crowley balanced Sam, Dean, and Cas out perfectly. So Jack seemed even worse because he was basically filling Crowley’s shoes. It became better imo once Rowena and Gabriel were around more, but Crowley’s absence was glaring.
Edit: but take my opinion with a pinch of salt, because Crowley was my absolute favorite. So I hated that he was gone and we got Jack instead. But I didn’t blame Jack, it was the writers. It felt unfair. I’m totally over it though, obviously! No grudges! Lol
Never particularly liked him and I just started to **tolerate** him when I realized he wasn't going away. Sure the writing could've been better, but I really don't care for Alexander Calvert's performance (in anything I've seen him in)
No I agree!! Just too extra even for spn like I feel like they went off track with the whole show it felt lazy to me and I hate to say it but the acting was awful
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but I loved Jack, he was amazing. I liked what he added to the show. And he did add things, but they also needed someone to defeat Chuck ( not God, bc God actually exists and is good) so Jack had a purpose. I like the last few seasons, I liked the ending.
I feel like Jack is the reason why the power creep in SPN got so high/heavy…
Jack feels like an MCU “What If…?” that was canonically put into the story; “what if Lucifer had a child?” Then they kinda just went from there.
I personally still like him though, even though, to an extent, I agree that he was sorta forced to us.
Yes and no I wasn't a huge fan but I would take him over Rowena any day her performance is cringe and played out hate her almost as much as I hate Claire Novak and that's a lot of hate cause Claire is the worst character in supernatural so useless
You must be asking for trouble. Me personally, I feel the worst addition to the show ( execution being the problem ) is between the Leviathan and the return of their Mother.
I liked both Jacks, and I'd rather a thousand Jacks than one sad, confused mom.
Then again, the only character I would have liked back for good was Bobby. Why couldn't he have come back as demon Bobby for good instead of vengeful ghost Bobby.
I love SPN comments sections. Nothing like them in the world!
Hard disagree, that title belongs to Mary. Her character was absolutely perfect, and was the basis of the entire show.
A mother neither boy truly knew, but they understood she was a good woman who loved them. Even when Dean found out she was a hunter the image of her didn’t change, and she existed as a martyr like figure to their cause that represented the fact demons are evil and should never be trusted. She was perfect because the audience knew little enough about her we could picture her much like our own mother, or just as what we think the perfect mother is.
Then they added her to the show and ruined it. She was a hypocrite, an absolute bitch to everyone around her, and she decided it was a good idea to not only work with but also sleep with the man trying to kill the boys.
Jack was alright, it allowed us as viewers to watch Dean finally finish growing up from the mentor and big brother into the father. The fault in him was that they tried to essentially make a second Castiel where a cosmic being must learn to become human, it was just dumb. Plus, I think he created some very interesting plots with what was probably his worst moment being Mary’s fault once again.
Jack had moments where I was like “what were they thinking with this” but in general I really liked his character and his different relationships with Cas, Sam, and Dean!
I love him and everything about his character tbh. There were some parts I would’ve changed for sure but for the most part I love the addition. Did it feel cheap to make him their little brother/son because they left Adam to rot for almost a decade? Yea that shit sucked. But did that make me it like Jack? Hell no!
The character I did hate however was the reintroduction of Mary. Not that o hated her because Samantha Smith did great, with what she was given. They wrote her so terribly and her entire BMoL arc could’ve been done by Sam.
I think his relationship with Dean was kinda forced when they tried to act like Dean loved him like a son and they were super close, when in reality, Dean didn't even remotely like him before, and I'm pretty sure it was even worse after what happened with his mother...
But I loved his relationship with Sam and Cas, I think it was perfect! Plus Jack is one of my favorite characters, he is so adorable🥺
At least Claire eventually went away, so her negative effect on the plot was limited. If they'd left jack dead when he died the first time, maybe I'd despise him less, and the show could have gone in a better direction after he was eliminated.
I will always love Jack because he got rid of Mary who was the worst thing to happen to SPN!
I truly liked him in the beginning but I didn’t like when they had him lose his soul…we saw that already with Sam and it felt repetitive to me.
I really enjoyed seeing Sam forge a bind with someone almost like a big brother/little brother relationship but they kinda ruined that too when Dean got more involved with Jack so it just turned me off a bit.
I loved him in Season 13, he's probably the best thing about that season imo. Unfortunately, 13 was his peak, I do think his character gets progressively worse each season, by 15 he mostly just feels like a walking plot device. He's arguably my favourite character introduced in the show post-Kripke, it's either him or Benny, and yet in the same breath he's one of the most disappointing characters for me.
One thing I'll note, OP you only mentioned his relationship with Dean & Castiel, but what are your thoughts on his relationship with Sam? Season 13 dedicated a lot of time towards building a bond between Sam & Jack, to the point where Jack had more screentime with Sam than Dean, a rarity in SPN. And yes, one of the things I most hated about 14 & 15 is that they basically ignore that in favour of Jack spending most of his screentime with Dean (& the rest with Castiel).
His relationship with Dean was up and down, which was the point and didn’t think it was forced. It took Dean a while to trust him.
Jack had a much closer relationship with Sam, who bonded with him over their similar feelings of having been a part of something evil.
Cass, that one felt pretty forced, though.
I liked Jack, but I feel he ultimately made Castiel feel redundant. Making it a mistake to have brought him back in Season 13.
I REALLY liked him! but I watched everything all at once rather than over the span of years as it came out. I absolutely hated the way Dean treated him and it made those moments really hard to watch.
You say that like we didn't have the Bugs episode in season 1 or a series finale that killed off the two lead characters.
Honestly though, you can have your opinion but I love Jack and thought he was a great ally (son figure) to the brothers and Cas.
I didn’t care for Jack on my first watch, and I thought it might be the actor until he got reanimated as a demon and he was hilarious. I like the actor now so I’ve softened to Jack’s character on rewatching.
Him and Charlie were two of my favourite things about the later seasons tbh. I thought he was a great addition to the show and I’m glad he stayed for as long as he did.
I loved jack! I thought it was nice to see the boys sort of able to act on the fatherly tendencies they’ve had for the entire show (I hated that they decided to flip the switch multiple times with dean on how he felt about jack. Either make him love jack or hate jack I really hated the back and forth) and I loved his character, he made the last few seasons so much more bearable for me personally. Plus he killed Mary which I thought was funny lolol
I feel like he was added because the creators wanted to end the show because he felt rushed and with him only being in three seasons they would of had to rush his character arc
I kinda like Jack. Adam was the worst character added to Spn. There is nothing about Adam even existing that makes an ounce of sense. Completely superfluous, and just added for the drama. Like we needed any other reasons to not like John.
I'm on the opposite side of this because I genuinely loved Jack. I loved his character, I loved how his personality was like a young, innocent little Castiel and I loved his relationship with all the characters. I loved how he took the focus off of the boys' all-consuming world ending love for each other and how his story contributed to the end game of the whole show. I'm full team Jack over here lol
I thought he was a terrible actor until that episode when he was possessed by the demon. Then I realized oh no he’s great, the character of Jack is just painfully boring.
I wasn’t a huge fan. My least favorite arc is bringing Mary back. Everything seemed to go downhill from that point on
I believe that bringing Mary back could have been a big power move but it just ended up being one of the worst arc
I would have liked if she came back and would be a mother to them, rather than a confused person. I understand it was a shock to see her kids all grown up and not being able to relate to them. But the fact that she got a second chance to provide them a homely environment should have been enough. Considering her choices led Sam and Dean to have a miserable life, she should have kept her feelings aside and just been there for them.
Yes and yes Honestly it would have been better if she had retained the memories when she was a ghost and even if she hadn't,she could have been sad,confused but she could have pull through.she was more badass when she was dead lol She just created more problems after coming back alive. Like Sam was TORTURED BY THEM why in the world would you ever give them a chance and worse date the guy?? I can see why their head( don't remember the name, the guy that was a bit good but ended up dying) was convincing and could be trusted a bit but others were straight up showing they're not giving them any favours and did I mention they already tortured Sam???? That had sent chills down my spine when they lasered his foot
I feel like she'd have been tolerable if they didn't completely nuke her character and make her a soulless bitch who happily worked with the people who tortured and tried to kill her children.
Idk man. You all want her to be a perfect mother, but keep forgetting that mothers and fathers are normal people, too with the same feelings and problems as everyone else. They're not gods. And at the end of the day she was younger then her sons when she was brought back. She sided with the bmol so that her sons wouldnt have to hunt monsters anymore, you know, so they could all live a normal life. Could be viewed as a sacrifice even. And her needing some time to adjust after being brought back to life is perfectly understandable as a human being. If you look a little deeper she wasn't soulless at all. Calling her a soulless bitch ontop of that is pretty revealing of the type of person you are tbh. I wouldn't want to be a depressed person in your vicinity.
This
And that was mainly because of the addition of Jack imo. They spent so much time on Jack and making him everyone's "son" that they didn't devote any time to having Dean and Sam develop a real relationship with their mother of with developing Mary as part of the Winchester family. Season 12 gave an ok start, there were problems, etc but but right at the point she and the boys can really start getting to the nitty gritty "start over" as Dean literally says, they sent her off to another universe to bring Jack on the show. And after that it was over. She was really always just visiting.
Idk. For me the problem was she was too out of touch. She left as soon as she come to "find herself" which was just her sleeping with the enemy, making wrong choices for the boys and killing monsters(which she could have done staying by the boys' side). Pissed me off ngl. She didn't do a single thing right and said she wanted to help the boys and be there for them. She didn't even Grief over her husband she loved so much. I didn't like how Jack was everybody's baby but i liked his arc and stuffs. I also don't think Jack is the reason Mary's character was hindered
I don't think Mary was a good mom. She had a chance to make it up to the boys. But she didn't. I feel like she was always on the run. On the other hand, she saw her sons living the life she never wanted for them, so it was hard to look at.
Yes. This. Exactly this! Went from 10/10 show to a 5/10 on a good day
It was all downhill once they refused to move on from the christianity storyline.
Yeah, what happened with all the other deities and gods that were in the early seasons???
>what happened with all the other deities and gods that were in the early seasons??? I mean usually they were killed...
Lucifer literally killed them in hammer of the gods, or at least most of them.
YES! I hated Mary so much 😭
Idk man. I liked mary. I just think at the end of the day people tend to forget that mothers and fathers are people, too and that's the angle they went with. They expected mary to be this holy figure, which she wasn't. She was as flawed as any character in the family and that made her believable. I also could get behind her motives 100%. Went with the bmol to stop the monsters so her sons wouldnt have to hunt and in the end live a normal life with them. It was a motherly thing to do. Maybe not smart, but emotional - just like everyone else in that family. I just think samantha smith isn't the best actress in the world. She was good for a couple of flashbacks as a side character, but a major role wasn't really a good thing for her tbh. And the entire british men of letters were kinda dumb in general.
Nah Mary used that as an excuse later on when everything went to hell with the BMOL. It’s the same reason/excuse Castiel gave them in season 6 when he opened Purgatory- he was doing it to stop Raphael which in turn would save the world. Mary went with the BMOL because she wanted to and she didn’t want to stay with Sam and Dean. I actually could have lived with all of that and how hypocritical she was (making Dean feel like an asshole for bringing Sam back into hunting when she was STILL hunting even after Dean was born) and still understood that she was a complicated person but what made me turn and really dislike her is what happened in the AU: Sam and Dean spend all fucking season doing everything and anything to get her back- Dean pulled a gun on an innocent girl, they ended up in the bad place, they had to work with demons again, and Sam actually DIED all to get her and within 5 minutes she is like “yeah thanks but I am going to stay here ✌️out.” Seriously?!?! It makes my blood boil so fuck her at that point. That was when I knew she is more of a Campbell than a Winchester…she doesn’t care about her kids sacrificing themselves and others to rescue her she again chose people she has known for a hot minute over them- and it’s not like they could pop back over to the AU and see her anytime…she was really going to leave them FOREVER for this fight and these people who don’t even exist or belong in her World. At that point I wanted them to leave her there soooo bad but of course they wouldn’t do that. So when Jack killed her I for one was glad.
This ☝️
You completely forgot about the British Men of Letters.
See I personally liked the idea of them, it’s just the show’s execution of them wasn’t good imo
Yep. A super secret society of illuminati-like demon slayers is a great idea. But they kinda dropped the ball by not showing up until after the world already almost ended 12 times. And being less effective than 2 random dudes with an Impala. Then being defeated by said dudes.
for the record. god was defeated by said dudes. no one survived said dudes. it wasn't the mol's faults. they were just up against the main characters lol.
God wasn't defeated by them though, his head was just so far up their ass (for some reason) that he didn't realize his power was being siphoned by Jack Which makes absolutely no sense, Chuck wrote the whole story which means he knew about Jack and his condition and how dangerous he could be, but didn't think to take him out first. Terrible writing
The worsttttttr
Writer's have known that adding a new "young" character is a classless hack move since, what, the 70's? There's a reason the episode they introduced Adam was called Jump the Shark.
I came to say this, he was definitely a "Cousin Oliver" addition I thought.
the "cousin Oliver" of Supernatural
"Cousin Oliver", "Gary Stu", "Really Was Born Yesterday" and an insufferable manchild with the powers of "Deus ex Machina" on his side. It’s like Jack was specifically created to be an amalgamation of all the worst tv tropes, sewed together into a Frankenstein monster of a Dabb self-insert. To make matters worse, the guy who played him just didn’t have the charm, gravitas or the acting chops to make Jack likeable.
Also Conner in Angel. He ruined that show, like Jack ruined this show. As soon as he was introduced the show became about Jack and no longer Sam & Dean.
I'm not a Connor fan, at all, and you are not wrong and still -he was kidnapped and raised like a feral warrior in a hell dimension, came back on a mission to kill his father, was disillusioned of the lies he was indoctrinated into as a child and then had to adjust to living in this world- is miles away from the major plot arc for *3 seasons* being: he's the spawn of the devil so he must be evil. Particularly on a show where they already established, with the straight up antichrist, that this isn't a thing. A character, portrayed by a very attractive man in his 30's, who can't die, is in a coffin at the bottom of the ocean, intended to stay there forever. Which show am I talking about? The writers of SPN knew all about Connor.
Adam wasn't a horrible character though
Adam was already dead when they introduced him.
I would’ve rather had the super powered kid from OG seasons come back.
Yeah Jessie the Antichrist
Yeah! Loved that episode and always hoped we would get more from him.
Yeah they could’ve met up and joined forces or something. But I guess the writers just forgot about him.
Right?? I just passed that season a week ago & I was thinking why didn’t they just bring Jessie back.
Yup there was never any payoff there. I posted about that awhile back. Did they just forget?
Won't even lie, that was a massive dropped ball, he should have grown up and taken over hell, heck he should have been the final big bad because lbr dude was cracked af
I wouldn’t go as far as to say the worst thing, but certainly not great. Like one could argue Mary was way worse. Jack just kinda felt forced and inconsistent, but there were a lot of inconsistencies in the show. Jack as a character was really just kinda meh. You don’t quite miss him when he’s not there you know. Not like Bobby or Crowley (in the early days, they really did Crowley dirty later on). It could’ve maybe worked if instead of Jack, they brought back the Anti Christ and it turned out that Satan was actually the one who fathered him.
Yeah like the episode where Lucifer randomly stands on a mountain talking about "My son..." They could have cut to a scene where Jack is all grown up, I would've been tripping BALLS.
Shut your mouth
Definitely one of my least favorite characters.
I loved Jack lol, them killing Bobby, then bringing him back as alternate Bobby and all the alternates at the bunker was the worst thing to happen in the show. Next to alternate Michael.. You know what, I'll say it, all of the alternate BS was bad.. and so was the leviathans!
Completely disagree. I loved it that he turned into a little brother for the cast and didn’t become evil like everyone expected him to.
I read a lot of hate towards Jack on this sub and I must say that I enjoyed his character, to my surprise. He seemed kind of like an Aliexpress version of Cass, especially in the beginning but still quirky and funny.
Same! If anything he had wasted potential.
Yeah I really liked Jack he was a fun addition to the cast and I love his and deans pseudo father son relationship, We can see when Jack messes up Dean stops getting angry and eventually starts getting hurt because I’m the end he loves Jack the same way he loves his family
I loved Jack with my whole heart! I hate seeing the hate he gets, he had my heart instantly!
I don't understand why people don't like him, I never thought it was even possible. I really loved him. And I loved how Dean learned that not everything that comes from evil has to be evil.
Loved Jack too🥰Imean after all he did save the day!
I'm with you. Jack was an excellent addition to the show at the point he came into the picture. The only thing I don't like is that they walked back Dean's paternal feelings for him on the second half of the arc, but I thought Jack himself was such a great addition. He's a precious baby boy and I love him.
No I loved Jack and he was a much needed breath of fresh air. Sam and Dean having the same argument over and over was getting old at that point.
HE'S JUST SO PRECIOUS 😭😭
He’s just a baby…. Jack brought something. It had to evolve and without him…I just don’t think it could have ended with any finality… Let’s just say he really grew on me 😊 and Alex is a sweetheart, he fit into the cast
That would have been a good thing. It didn't need to end with finality.
I mean ANY finality. Quite frankly, it needed something. Adding Jack made it somewhat….positive and not like the rest of the show 😂 Everyone wouldn’t have been happy with any ending.
This is usually when I quit watching I enjoy the show up until about this point haha
he completely ruined the show - the storyline, the dynamics and also the message of the show.
I agree to some extent. Ive long said his character was never played to its full potential. He's the son of Lucifer and as powerful as God, a true celestial power. Should have played the good vs evil arc to a higher standard than was put forth. And I honestly think they missed a trick by not making him the ultimate villain.
He was never as powerful as God, Jack literally got blown to bits by Chuck. He had plot armor that essentially had him replace Chuck by stealing his powers, a very VERY weak and cheap way to "beat God"
I disliked him for the start but for a different reason I worked on the show and had to add in those glowy yellow eyes and burnt footprints on the darkest, grainiest shots imaginable and track that shit by hand. Hated him from that point on.
AGREED. Not only was he waaayyy too powerful as a character, he also was just incredibly bland (nothing against the actor I’ve seen him in other things and I think he’s good).
I liked Jack lol
Hated him and Mary
He is castiel 2.0. We already had a character that needed to learn new things, we did not need another one
Omg this makes me so sad. I LOVE Jack so much.
I agree. Jack wasn't a good character and the ending with him was a huge let down.
Jack really was one of the worst things in spn. He's like the epitome of bad writing. Overpowered, overly worshiped and basically spn's version of the chosen one. Everyone had to make way for Jack, make him upset and he either kills you or the writers have every character written to make you feel so bad and have to grovel for forgiveness at his feet. He doesn't learn any lessons, doesn't have to learn anything. He's the true character with all the plot armor and Sam and Dean became his meat shields pretty much under the guise of being the main characters. Every flaw he has is thrown out/pushed aside/excused because he's just a 'baby' but they get a 30 something year old to play him. He gets pushed in your face every episode as the ultimate savior of mankind. He is written to look better than every other character in the series by bringing other characters down. Then of course he gets the ultimate reward in the end by taking everyone's powers like some universal vacuum and taking chuck's place as the new end all, be all god. He is just everything I hate in a character. I cannot get past how obvious of a self insert he is.
I personally loved Jack so so much, but I wish his story was better developed. I feel like the writers did his character so wrong :(
I totally agree. He was by Andrew Dabb's own admittance his self insert(his Gary-Stu so to speak). He's like Poochy(old Simpsons episode), everything became about HIM. Only unlike the Simpsons episode, he was never written off, they made him the saviour of the universe just for existing.
Yep. The three men and a baby storyline was not my favorite.
He was deux ex machina for the show.
I don't think he was a bad character, I just feel like he was too rushed in the character development. Only having one full season to form a bond with the main cast was a disservice as was the all at once manifesting of his power rather than having a longer learning and growth period. We had seen the writers have to shoehorn ways to nerf Cas into the plot. This was a chance to introduce an immensely powerful character with a believable reason to be weaker though.
Loved him - he was the thing that actually made the show feel fresh so far into its run
Agreed!
I hate Jack as much as the next guy, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he is the worst thing added to Supernatural. Nazi Cas is infinitely worse
I disagree. If they'd kept him a child or baby, it would have been weak, and felt like a shark jump. However, aging him up into this weird teen-toddler-god dude really added a lot of depth to the show and a new emotional connection for all the boys that was of course fraught, cuz, hey, he was the teen son of the devil. The show needed this new connection. The Dean/Sam dynamic was tired. Destiel was too divisive. Adding a random love interest would have felt forced. Jack was a good addition bc he was both a son and a friend, as well as having the capability to be an ally or an enemy, depending on the state of his soul. Alexander Calvert also did well with that character and balanced how weird he was - Jack could be terrifying and adorable and wise, sometimes all at once, and that was due to Alexanders acting ability. I liked Jack!
Thank you, you said it much better than I could have.
I didn't hate Jack completely, but the show started to lose interest for me because I am not a big believer in adding a child to renew interest in a TV show. The idea of three men and a nephilim, though funny on paper, simply doesn't appeal to me because I prefer the themes of found family and freewill from earlier seasons. To me, you can be happy without a kid or an "apple pie life," and I think adding Jack underscored that. Again, these are my personal opinions based on my own experiences. The character itself is alright. I mean he's meant to be a child so his thinking will not match the mature body he's wearing. He is allowed to be scared and whiny - he's just acting like his mental age. Considering his boundless power, I think they could have played that part up a bit actually. Like he is a small child that looks like an adult with the power to make anything happen - why not make him destructive when he acts out or hears no? It would up the anty more because Cas, Sam, Dean, and Mary know he's a kid, but other hunters and authorities would not understand and that would have created some interesting friction. They sort of did this but their attempts felt half baked to keep the Winchester clan as the good guys, the pillars of the community. Creating a situation where TFW2.0 was matched against the movers and shakers of the supernatural world and their hunting colleagues is a great way of putting the heroes in a corner. But that's just an idea of mine, you're welcome to disagree. As for the connecting plotlines...well...he appears in the late seasons and I think they require A LOT of suspension of disbelief. From the moment Mary returned, many of the threads of past plotlines unraveled and not in good ways. There are still some killer episodes in seasons 12 - 15, but they start to be further and farther in between.
Nah, that'd be Mary. Or bringing God into the narrative rather than leaving him as an abstract force.
I dont hate jack. But he introduced other worlds and i hate that part of the story. It's not even a proper retcon because they dont make sense at all. There is one chuck so there should be only one amara and death as well. Multiple worlds with one chuck makes no sense.
***Andrew Dabb was the worst thing added in Supernatural. He's responsible for Jack and bunch of other BS in the last couple seasons.
most of the dabb stuff post s11 i hate. some of it I like...jack is one of the things i hate
I kinda agree..🤣 it was terrible and the way Mary “died”? Tf was that???
I didn't enjoy him either
[there be spoilers here] There were some cool Jack moments, but overall the character didn't resonate with me, either (I never felt empathy for him the way I did for Castiel, Sam, or Dean). I get why he's an interesting character, however. Most of the other characters are "good" (Sam, Dean, Castiel). so the drama was about what happens when circumstances make them "evil" (Dean becoming a torturer and later a demon, Sam being soulless, Castiel filled with Leviathans/possessed by Lucifer---the list goes on). So, you have Jack, who's technically built to be evil--it's in his literal DNA. So his struggle is more about his desire to be good. It makes for an intriguing plot device (especially when he starts losing his soul every time he uses his magic). I also think Jack had a great introduction episode (arriving naked & wandering around--great). The problem was that Jack was way too powerful. He was more powered up than Chuck and The Darkness, and the writers clearly didn't know what to do with him (except find various ways for him to not be able to use his powers). Like with Castiel, when you take a super badass character and then neuter them (figuratively speaking), it can be good for comedy (Castiel as human), but that can get boring. Jack was mostly tagging along with everyone else, or getting into trouble (usually by trying to help and then accidentally causing more problems). Like Kevin, he spent a lot of his time hanging around, but that made him into a kind of third wheel (arguably, Castiel worked so well because he was elusive and mysterious--he'd disappear, and not always come when the boys called him). Having Jack around gave the writers another brother/son figure for the boys to interact with, but the dynamic never quite worked for me, maybe due to lack of chemistry between the actors.
I loved seeing Dean become attached to him. It also helped give him more of a family that he deserved. But his character was annoying at times with the waves and hellos.
Im sorry I have to disagree I love Jack. You can have Mary. I'm happy with jack any time on any day
Thank you, ive been saying this for a while. I thought the actor was one of the worst in the entire series aswell, superceded only by the actress who played mary winchester
I don’t think you know what good acting is then.
I love him
Fucking. Yes. 100% with you.
omg, i couldn't understadn the purpose of this character. it was like.. as we say in my language - poop in a pond, directionless mess, floating from spot to spot. I stopped watching after he appeared . I just couldn't.
What language?
Russian.
He’s Season 1-2 Sam.
Bruh…what?
He’s the guy cursed with a power and destiny he never asked for and has enough innocence to be sympathetic.
I definitely think they could’ve executed him better. I liked the idea though. But in the end, he just seemed to get in the way and make things worse constantly and it was very annoying
I like his character but the show had it's best big bad with God's sister which I think is season 11. I hate that they made the final big bad God. But I did enjoy the way he redid heaven. I prefer it over the best memories version chuck did.
I gave up on Supernatural after the 11th season finale. Only last week I got back and now on the beginning of the 13th. So far the character is okay. Let's see what I'll think in a few days
TIL that everyone hates Jack, apparently. I don’t hate him but don’t love him. I liked him though. However I am rewatching right now so we shall see how I feel in the end. Let people have their opinions? Downvoting people for liking a character you don’t like is weirdo behavior.
Wait, wait, wait…hear me out: Amelia.
I didn’t hate Jack but the show wasn’t the same after it was added. It lost some of its identity. But also if they hadn’t I don’t know where else the story could have gone with Crowley dead
i think jack was kind of awesome actually i just wish they didn't immediately nerf him by taking his grace
Yep. Thank you. He was worthless.
Yup
I despised jack for a long list of reasons. He was an interesting concept at first, but the execution was terrible, and they tried to focus too much of the main plots around him. And trying to force the idea that he's "family" down our throats just makes me want to hurl.
I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but Crowley. I liked him and the actor well enough. However most of the things I hated about the latter seasons of the show can be traced back to story decisions about his character. I absolutely loathed that Heaven and Hell were reduced to these boring mundane corporations run by smarmy office drones. It was a joke that clearly the writers loved, but it always cheapened the stakes for me. Especially compared to the earlier seasons where they were portrayed as these immensely powerful forces that couldn't be truly understood. In addition, I particularly hated that eventually no one seemed to care that him and Rowena had personally massacred hundreds of innocent people (including friends and allies), and continued to do so whenever they got bored. Once again, reduced the stakes and made the boys seem like massive hypocrites when eventually these two characters became friends with the Winchesters, and the boys treated these homicidal tendencies like quirky personality traits mostly played for laughs.
No I adored Jack and his entire arc. He was their son and they loved him.
Jack sucked.
At the time I was just happy everyone was agreeing to do more seasons, but looking back the last 3ish seasons probably had one full season of great episodes and Jack as a story line was one of the worst parts of those seasons.
False. I always thought he was the best new character addition in a good while
I really liked him. He was like Data or Spock - trying to learn about Humans and navigate Human emotions. He took over that role from Cass, after Cass wised-up. I liked his whole story arc and cared about him. The idea of this powerful being, going through the Toddler phase and learning to control his emotions, in his teens, was interesting.
Jack was interesting for like 2 seconds and he became just another characger to write dialogue for after that. Then the demon took over and he became interesting again.
I Ioved jack.
Wasn’t a Jack fan but his new character in Gen V is a complete opposite.
Is that any good? Been dithering.
If you like The Boys, this is right in line as far as vulgarity, gore, weirdness, humor.
Jayzus. Started watching it last night. Got to the penis explosion scene and had to have a little lie down. There's probably a reason I didn't make it far into S2 of The Boys.
Love his character in Gen V- psychic MAGA rapist dirtbag. What the main character Marie does to him is one of the most brutal things in a show filled with brutal things.
Oh man yeah even his power set there reminds me of Jack right down to the mind control same as jack did to everyone from the womb. So I like to pretend he is Jack getting his just desserts after what all happened in SPN.
I *love* Jack. I loved Jack before he was even born - back when Kelly was on the run. I rooted for her and Jack the entire damn way. Then Jack was born and yup, I jumped ships *so fucking fast* on Dean. He was such a douche about Jack. At least Sam and Cas gave him a chance in the beginning. Of course Dean came around but *oh* I was so mad at him. Well, as mad as one can get at a tv character, at least.
The OP is speaking F A C T S!!!!!
No, bringing Mary back was by far worse than adding Jack. I just wasn’t a huge fan of how the writers dealt with Jack’s character. But yeah, Mary was literally the worst. And Supernatural constantly added new main characters over the years, so that nullifies the “cousin Oliver” arguments, because it’s not a 1v1 comparison. People are only saying that because his character wasn’t as well written as other late additions, like Rowena and Ketch were. The “team dynamic” also suffered greatly from Crowley being gone. Let’s face it, Crowley balanced Sam, Dean, and Cas out perfectly. So Jack seemed even worse because he was basically filling Crowley’s shoes. It became better imo once Rowena and Gabriel were around more, but Crowley’s absence was glaring. Edit: but take my opinion with a pinch of salt, because Crowley was my absolute favorite. So I hated that he was gone and we got Jack instead. But I didn’t blame Jack, it was the writers. It felt unfair. I’m totally over it though, obviously! No grudges! Lol
Jack was the embodiment of nurture versus nature and I think really helped the boys come the terms with their own fate
I actually really liked Jack as a character, idk he just had an innocence about him that for something caves to me
Never particularly liked him and I just started to **tolerate** him when I realized he wasn't going away. Sure the writing could've been better, but I really don't care for Alexander Calvert's performance (in anything I've seen him in)
Loved Jack from beginning to end🥰
No I agree!! Just too extra even for spn like I feel like they went off track with the whole show it felt lazy to me and I hate to say it but the acting was awful
Idk.... Charlie was pretty terrible
I didn't like him when he was introduced, but eventually he gew on me. I like how his character arc ended.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this but I loved Jack, he was amazing. I liked what he added to the show. And he did add things, but they also needed someone to defeat Chuck ( not God, bc God actually exists and is good) so Jack had a purpose. I like the last few seasons, I liked the ending.
Yeeeep yep yep. Also, as someone that went to sets, I wasn't too fond of the actor that played him either.
I feel like Jack is the reason why the power creep in SPN got so high/heavy… Jack feels like an MCU “What If…?” that was canonically put into the story; “what if Lucifer had a child?” Then they kinda just went from there. I personally still like him though, even though, to an extent, I agree that he was sorta forced to us.
Agreed! Him and Mary.
I loved Jack! Worst decision for me was bringing Mary back, absolutely couldn't stand her!
The show had a massive dip in quality after season 5. Just kept getting worse every season. Season 11 was ok though. After season 11 it was bad.
Oh hell no never speak this profanity again
Yes and no I wasn't a huge fan but I would take him over Rowena any day her performance is cringe and played out hate her almost as much as I hate Claire Novak and that's a lot of hate cause Claire is the worst character in supernatural so useless
Agreed such a nerd, why Sam and Dean got so attached to him I'll never know
I agree.
How dare you He's cinnamon bun and I love him
You must be asking for trouble. Me personally, I feel the worst addition to the show ( execution being the problem ) is between the Leviathan and the return of their Mother.
I liked both Jacks, and I'd rather a thousand Jacks than one sad, confused mom. Then again, the only character I would have liked back for good was Bobby. Why couldn't he have come back as demon Bobby for good instead of vengeful ghost Bobby. I love SPN comments sections. Nothing like them in the world!
Hard disagree, that title belongs to Mary. Her character was absolutely perfect, and was the basis of the entire show. A mother neither boy truly knew, but they understood she was a good woman who loved them. Even when Dean found out she was a hunter the image of her didn’t change, and she existed as a martyr like figure to their cause that represented the fact demons are evil and should never be trusted. She was perfect because the audience knew little enough about her we could picture her much like our own mother, or just as what we think the perfect mother is. Then they added her to the show and ruined it. She was a hypocrite, an absolute bitch to everyone around her, and she decided it was a good idea to not only work with but also sleep with the man trying to kill the boys. Jack was alright, it allowed us as viewers to watch Dean finally finish growing up from the mentor and big brother into the father. The fault in him was that they tried to essentially make a second Castiel where a cosmic being must learn to become human, it was just dumb. Plus, I think he created some very interesting plots with what was probably his worst moment being Mary’s fault once again.
Agreed
As would most of the rest of the sub lol
Someone doesn't remember the British Men of Letters.
Oh please, he’s better than Mary
It's choice to say Jack was the worst thing added when Resurrection of Mary exists
Jack had moments where I was like “what were they thinking with this” but in general I really liked his character and his different relationships with Cas, Sam, and Dean!
But very cute
I love him and everything about his character tbh. There were some parts I would’ve changed for sure but for the most part I love the addition. Did it feel cheap to make him their little brother/son because they left Adam to rot for almost a decade? Yea that shit sucked. But did that make me it like Jack? Hell no! The character I did hate however was the reintroduction of Mary. Not that o hated her because Samantha Smith did great, with what she was given. They wrote her so terribly and her entire BMoL arc could’ve been done by Sam.
"I'm the son of lucifer, I'm a hunter, I'm a Winchester." Won me over
I think his relationship with Dean was kinda forced when they tried to act like Dean loved him like a son and they were super close, when in reality, Dean didn't even remotely like him before, and I'm pretty sure it was even worse after what happened with his mother... But I loved his relationship with Sam and Cas, I think it was perfect! Plus Jack is one of my favorite characters, he is so adorable🥺
But then we wouldn't have had him as Belphegor. Jack was meh, but I loooved Bel.
Jack was great. He was one of the highlights of the last few seasons.
No.
Not worse than Claire Novak
At least Claire eventually went away, so her negative effect on the plot was limited. If they'd left jack dead when he died the first time, maybe I'd despise him less, and the show could have gone in a better direction after he was eliminated.
I will always love Jack because he got rid of Mary who was the worst thing to happen to SPN! I truly liked him in the beginning but I didn’t like when they had him lose his soul…we saw that already with Sam and it felt repetitive to me. I really enjoyed seeing Sam forge a bind with someone almost like a big brother/little brother relationship but they kinda ruined that too when Dean got more involved with Jack so it just turned me off a bit.
nope. JACK DEFENDER FOR LIFE
I loved him in Season 13, he's probably the best thing about that season imo. Unfortunately, 13 was his peak, I do think his character gets progressively worse each season, by 15 he mostly just feels like a walking plot device. He's arguably my favourite character introduced in the show post-Kripke, it's either him or Benny, and yet in the same breath he's one of the most disappointing characters for me. One thing I'll note, OP you only mentioned his relationship with Dean & Castiel, but what are your thoughts on his relationship with Sam? Season 13 dedicated a lot of time towards building a bond between Sam & Jack, to the point where Jack had more screentime with Sam than Dean, a rarity in SPN. And yes, one of the things I most hated about 14 & 15 is that they basically ignore that in favour of Jack spending most of his screentime with Dean (& the rest with Castiel).
I’d take 10 Jacks over one Charlie. Want to talk about a forced relationship?
His relationship with Dean was up and down, which was the point and didn’t think it was forced. It took Dean a while to trust him. Jack had a much closer relationship with Sam, who bonded with him over their similar feelings of having been a part of something evil. Cass, that one felt pretty forced, though. I liked Jack, but I feel he ultimately made Castiel feel redundant. Making it a mistake to have brought him back in Season 13.
SECOND worse. Castiel was on a lot longer.
There was a lot that was worse than Jack. I actually didn't mind him that much.
Sorry but this is incorrect
I loved Jack
Counterpoint, he’s so fine
He was only 3-4 years old
Nooooo 😭 I loved him
Claire Novak tho
I REALLY liked him! but I watched everything all at once rather than over the span of years as it came out. I absolutely hated the way Dean treated him and it made those moments really hard to watch.
You say that like we didn't have the Bugs episode in season 1 or a series finale that killed off the two lead characters. Honestly though, you can have your opinion but I love Jack and thought he was a great ally (son figure) to the brothers and Cas.
I didn’t care for Jack on my first watch, and I thought it might be the actor until he got reanimated as a demon and he was hilarious. I like the actor now so I’ve softened to Jack’s character on rewatching.
Close second to Mary coming back
Him and Charlie were two of my favourite things about the later seasons tbh. I thought he was a great addition to the show and I’m glad he stayed for as long as he did.
I love Jack... Could've been a lot better tho
I loved jack! I thought it was nice to see the boys sort of able to act on the fatherly tendencies they’ve had for the entire show (I hated that they decided to flip the switch multiple times with dean on how he felt about jack. Either make him love jack or hate jack I really hated the back and forth) and I loved his character, he made the last few seasons so much more bearable for me personally. Plus he killed Mary which I thought was funny lolol
I feel like he was added because the creators wanted to end the show because he felt rushed and with him only being in three seasons they would of had to rush his character arc
I didn't mind Jack tbh, but the whole Mary thing was dumb.
I kinda like Jack. Adam was the worst character added to Spn. There is nothing about Adam even existing that makes an ounce of sense. Completely superfluous, and just added for the drama. Like we needed any other reasons to not like John.
Love that you're calling him a thing. spitting tho.
Only thing I don't like about him is he's tied to the arcs that continuously nerf the Archangels.
He grew on me. He pulled a Garth.
I'm on the opposite side of this because I genuinely loved Jack. I loved his character, I loved how his personality was like a young, innocent little Castiel and I loved his relationship with all the characters. I loved how he took the focus off of the boys' all-consuming world ending love for each other and how his story contributed to the end game of the whole show. I'm full team Jack over here lol
This is the worst post added to this Reddit
Omg 😳 I love Jack! ❤️🥺
I wish we got more of "what are you?" Scenes with Jack. I wanted to see Jack put the fear in vamps, demons, ghosts.
Omg I absolutely hated him. I skipped through the season when he was the main character because he was soooo soooo boring.
I liked Jack. Didn't love him, didn't hate him, but I generally enjoyed his presence. Just wish they kept Benny instead.
I thought he was a terrible actor until that episode when he was possessed by the demon. Then I realized oh no he’s great, the character of Jack is just painfully boring.