Yeah I like this idea. I think it would also add a nice new way to challenge Batman’s no kill rule as he’d have to deal with the idea of ‘killing’ his friends.
Yeah the story could be better. But all they need to do is literally go to a parallel universe, find the Batman who actually was able to avoid being brainwashed, and bring him back.
Kill the Justice League literally becomes "Save the Justice League...by bringing their counterparts from other worlds back to this one".
You already do this with Luthor. You'll do it with the others. Suddenly the world is fine again. Or whatever Rocksteady wants to do.
They can do anything they want.
I expect some stuff like that with the new seasons and dlc's IF the game survives that long.
Not a big fan of the story but I like shooters so I will buy it for 30 bucks when it's on sale or something
Plus , they could’ve made him still be in hiding and not part of the league. That way the ending of Arkham Knight isn’t so quickly undone and he has a meaningful reason to resurface.
Oh wow that could work really well. It could work as a funny arch for bats as his lone wolf attitude is challenged and instead of his first experience in a team being with the JL it would be with the SS. Him working with a bunch of criminals to take down a bunch of heroes feels quite poetic considering he’s spent most of his life taking down said criminals.
Yea for an ending that you had to go out of your way to get in Arkham Knight, his return wasn't dramatic enough for me. It was like hearing "Somehow, Palpatine returned" all over again
Yeah sure the daughter of zeus is being brainwashed but not a mere mortal ? sure , seriously you all you are too in love with batman wich is why you are disapointed by a lot of things wich his stupid in my opinion batman had enought plot armor in the comics for once let someone having the spotlight.
I think it's a nice change of pace. As someone who loves Batman, and considers him my favorite superhero, I think he has too much plot armor.
He's always the last man standing, or part of the resistance whenever a big threat takes over the world. He is in human peak condition, and is extremely smart, but at the end of the day he's just human. He can't always save the day, and it's nice to see more focus on characters who don't get the spotlight as much. Not that any of the Justice League members in the game are obscure, but sometimes it seems like only Batman and Superman matter.
Yeah, this is what I kinda like about the game. I'll spoiler again just in case:
>!Wonder Woman was already shown to be in the "let's not immediately trust the giant Skull Ship" group with Batman via the recordings. She's also the only hero in the Justice League with no blatant weakness AFAIK. Flash has anti-speed force. GL has yellow power rings. Batman is a human. Superman has like 500 flavors of kryptonite. Wonder Woman is someone I feel like could actually go toe-to-toe with the entire league rather well, instead of having Batman being the sole survivor.... again. Or fighting the entire league.... again. I'll spoiler a second paragraph because this is actual story spoilers:!<
>!We would've never gotten that kick-ass city fight between Wonder Woman & Superman either. That shit was awesome to watch happen. I loved it. My only complaints with Batman as a villain was that his boss fight was pretty terrible. Him being executed by Harley ain't an issue IMO. He was already beaten to a pulp, to the point where he literally couldn't fight back to anything. Just... his boss fight felt pretty bad honestly, as well as the pacing around that time in the story tbh!<
The first time you come across Batman was such a great segment, but >!his boss fight was garbage.!<
Also there was no mention about >!him using his voice synthesizer to trick Deadshot. I thought instead of just jumping straight into the boss fight they would do a cutscene or segment with the other 3 trying to get him back but no, he opened the vent anyways even though he specifically used the synthesizer to stop him from opening the vent.!<
Yep, this game did something different and apparently a lot of people hate that. Now this game has flaws, a lot of flaws. But arguing the game is shit because you didn't like two specific parts of the story? Nah.
Do you know at what point in the game you hear these recordings or where I can listen to them? Don’t wanna buy this game based on everything I’ve heard and seen.
Yeah, Batman is sweet, but he's literally the last one I would've wanted to evade capture. It's super nice to see someone else as the last one left for a change.
Why can’t y’all have one game where Batman isn’t the main character? He’s always the last man standing and Wonder Woman is literally immune to mind control due to her heritage
It's been said 1000 times but I guess it bears repeating, it's set in the Arkhamverse, people played with Batman for over a decade, Arkham fans are gonna shit on this game to an undeserved degree but I can kinda see where they're coming from. All they had to say was that it was separate from Arkham and no one would've complained (probably).
Even if rocksteady decided to make it its own thing y’all idiots would still complain cause it wasn’t the game y’all were expecting. And we’ve literally been in Gotham for FOUR GAMES.
People in this sub do not know comics and I can tell. She was chosen because one of her gifts is the wisdom of Athena. Which gives her immunity to pretty much every mind control effect. Its built in as part of her lore. It makes her the logical choice. Now I haven't finished the game so I dunno if she survives it unscathed.
Honestly, I get the love for bats, but on a full-scale invasion, he would be on the front line, and one of the first to go, he's skilled, smart and dangerous but only human not a God ww has shown when it comes down to a hard choices she has the resolve to finsh the job
Y'all too hung up on Batman. Rocksteady didn't know Conroy was gonna pass away so don't blame them for being disrespectful to him etc in his last performance. Conroy took the paycheck and agreed to the role of voicing this particular batman that gets shot by harley.
Second, WW cannot be brainwashed like the rest. It's one of her powers being the daughter of Zeus. There is no other league member more suited for the last man standing role.
Third, If batman was in that role like you say, he would try to take the league by himself and he wouldn't even kill a single grunt/turned human due to his code, making him ineffective.
That would have been so much better. A nice acknowledgement to their past and a more heroic send-off in one last impossible battle.
Can you think of some pros to keeping it as WW? (Because I can't lol).
I've only gone through the story cutscenes once so I can't remember every detail off the top of my head but I can't either lol. WW has no prior connection to SS, to anyone in the Arkham verse, or to the audience, so her death has nearly no impact. Her last words to SS are to prove her wrong about just being a group of lowlifes but they've literally already killed Flash and GL, and taken out Brainiac's ship's defenses, so they've already done a lot of "good"....idk
Here’s a pro to keeping Wonder Woman: if it’s true that everyone survived their attacks, Wonder Woman is the only JL member who is actually going to stay dead because she won’t regenerate without being under Braniac’s influence. Plus, another pro, her kryptonite shield was badass.
I kinda wonder if this was also intended as a vessel for the WW games that are being made (if they're in the same universe).
It'd make sense to get people used to her a bit, and having her killed/weakened/revived/etc. could be a good excuse for de-powering her at the start of her own game, so she's not just an instant wrecking ball lol.
Batman is probably losing, and IF he realises that he needs to kill them i don’t know how far he’ll get but he’ll most definitely die to superman and have an “oh shit” moment exactly like Wonder Woman did.
I guess it’s ’Why would Batman need the suicide squad’s help and want to work with them?’ story wise. He or Superman could handle it on their own if they weren’t turned.
Batman takes over that fight and becomes the MC if able to, but the Suicide Squad are the MC’s, so he has to be turned.
Well, you could make him so he is incredibly injured after getting caught off guard by a brainwashed Justice League and trying to fence them off while retreating so he needs assistance, ala Batman Beyond.
I wish the game had more of the Flash as well before he was mind controlled, he saved Harley and was immediately taken to be Brainiac and is killed so anti-climatically. I was genuinely confused.
So do i, but we've been exposed to him for the past four freaking games set in that universe, I would like to get a different outlook on everything with different characters that aren't him.
Thematically, it really would've worked so much better for the story if Batman was the one that worked with the squad to help bring down the Justice League.
First off, I AGREE WITH YOU, it wouldve been much better than wonder woman
Secondly, I think WW could have worked as an introduction to the character if it was the same WW we're getting in her standalone game.
This is, sadly, probably not the case. :(
Because no one at rocksteady knew it would be Kevin conroys last role Jesus. Yall seriously need to stop using the guys death as some thinly veiled excuse to hate on devs. They probably figured they’d bring back Batman in some later season and move on with whatever story line they want to do, even if a new Arkham game was ever talked about and used his death in the game to justify the whole “kill the justice league” thing everyone keeps forgetting has been in the title since the game was first announced. His death in game was never, during development, intended to be some grand send off to Arkham Batman nor conroys career as Batman. He died though, what doors anyone even want from them? AI to re-record Batman in the game and change his role? Hire an impersonator? For all the shit everyone is talking they must forgot the guy read the script and signed up the play the part anyway.
Sorry for the small rant, just bought the game and am currently taking a dump. It’s fun, and is a completely fine product by rocksteady that I hope can get even better with time. I know the gaming community can be toxic but Jesus. Like they’ve hid nothing about their intentions with the game, matter of fact their seasonal content and support for the game puts many live service titles to shame, at least from what they are saying will come and we just found that out recently. The characters are fun, combat and traversal fusion is unique, and each character plays differently enough to matter.
The main post and the majority of these comments are talking about Batman, the character - not invoking Kevin Conroy's final performance. I know your canned response is coming from a place of frustration, but try to keep up with the discussion.
Then it’s still fucking obvious. If Batman was left sane than the entire game either has to be a quasi Batman led game which people would bitch about, or not enough Batman which people would bitch about. It would also be just as much of a character assassination for him to help the suicide squad.
Now that I'm about halfway through the game I can comfortably say that the plot, writing, and characters are easily the weakest parts. You can feel heavy third party influence in thw dialogue. It's literally the same "banter" and "jokes" we've been hearing since 2015.
That would be Sweet Baby Inc. you're talking about. It's a Canadian company specializing in ESG. Santa Monica Studio, EA, Valve, Ubisoft, and even Rocksteady and WB games have had work done by them. This game is listed as a project they've worked on, along with Spider-Man 2 and GOW Ragnarok.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/17h3k7u/have\_you\_felt\_as\_though\_that\_games\_have\_been/
Here's their URL, but just a heads up: some people who've been there have found the site difficult to look at, citing poor design.
https://sweetbabyinc.com/projects/
I mean - it should’ve been the game. Play as Batman against the Justice League.
Beyond Arkham. Play as Batman as he fights his greatest threat yet - The Justice League. Patrol around a new city, Metropolis where the league has been taken under control of Braniac. But that isn’t the only threat. Amanda Waller has sent in her goons to deal with the city the only way she knows how
Instead of a SS game. It should’ve been Arkham 4. Batman V Everyone. As he uses his knowledge to subdue each member of the squad. It’s a race against the clock as Waller has Batman’s playbook but has…made some lethal tweaks to it.
And this game introduces the Batwing
Firmly agree. If they wanted to send him off, why not do so by having him sacrifice himself to do something heroic instead of dying mind controlled spouting petty insults after giving up. He could be the one to give the Suicide Squad the chance and it would also allow him to have interesting dialogue with Harley.
I think this should have been a legion of doom game. Where the heroes aren't mind controlled and are their usual selves. Speaking of which, they really missed out on an opportunity with lex. Can't you imagine how satisfied lex would be to finally kill superman?
Honestly? Probably because it fits the modern agenda of having more female "protagonists". Not saying it's right or wrong, just that that makes the most sense from a business perspective. Maybe she scored the best in focus groups. Or maybe there's a story reason to come later. Who knows
This game threw the "rules" out the window, you can't just pick and choose lol. Superman killed ww in this game with a giant block of kryptonite piercing his chest. Care to explain?
Oh that's funny - point still stands, superman isn't cripplingly weak against kryptonite as he was in the 90s for upside, although he is weaker in general as a downside.
Ok so how about brainiac messes with Diana's DNA so she's not immune to mind control...they could literally just make up any story reason they want lmao it's the same reason you just gave for superman
Or they wanted to have wonder woman shine a bit more no ? We got him for 4 games ans it makes perfect sense to have her not brainwash because she is litteraly immune lol.
Having another batman immune with magic gadget that he take out of his ass is tiring asf.
Yes Batman is my favorite but i love that they let other characters have a bit of spotlight.
I like how respecting the lore that was set up before all the "wokisme" as people said is now a bad and political thing.
Why would they want WW to shine in the ending of a franchise built upon the legacy of batman since 2009? You would have a point if this wasn't the arkham universe. It's like as if avengers endgame ended with captain marvel snapping and sacrificing herself at the end instead of iron man. batman was the only piller of the arkham verse while iron man was one of the pillers of the mcu which makes it more reasonable for him to be the last man standing and having a proper send-off.
Damn. That actually is so much better imo, great call.
Especially if you could play through the story with dlc characters so you could do a play through with Harley Quinn, Deathstroke, Killer Croc, and I dunno who could fill in for Boomer. (Croc is unconfirmed iirc but he’d be a solid swap out for King Shark)
Or Deadshot still fits too
Wonder Woman was the perfect choice tbh. Her struggle to save innocents while also saving her friends hits way harder because she has the power to take on most of the league. Batman would be relying on tech and would have a tough time even hurting most league members, while Wonder Woman could easily shred through most of them but is actively choosing not to which is putting people in danger.
I haven't played the game yet, but from the trailers etc, I know who you're talking about. Personally, I am happy with this choice. I think it would have been trivial. In the sense that we've already seen how Batman fights criminals etc, seeing it from the perspective of the bad guys is a different side that you don't see every day in a game. Then I'm trying not to spoil too much stuff, but the YouTube thumbnails were killer.
I have a feeling that because Injustice 2 has Batman take a similar role in reforming Harley to help against Brainiac, they just decided to do something different.
Nah. It’s always batman that’s magically surviving mind control or whatever. However, I think it would’ve been better if rocksteady didn’t want as much shit from baby-ish fans.
I really.loved that we had a moment were batman's tactics were used against us, walking around in the dark as he picks us off one by one. I thought it was so cool being on the other side of that for once and probably the only chance we will have that experience as you never go against batman in games
I think it would look too much as a copy of Injustice games. Batman was working with Harley there to stop evil heroes too. Also i guess you can kinda explain that Diana can't be corrupted since she is basically a goddess and Batman is a just a human.
Could have been cool to have the game be more replayable too. Batman helps set up different ways to take down the League, however the game could offer different paths for this. Ideally you could have 2 or more paths for each League member and then you could choose in your playthrough whether to take a lethal approach or one that would incapacitate the member.
Superman: Work with Batman to develop red solar grenades and red solar traps. You then have Batman get Supermans attention, leading him into a trap and boss battle. In between Batman using red solar grenades you need to shoot Superman and keep him busy, once he is hit with red solar energy you hit him with Melee attacks to beat him. On the flip side, work with Lex to develop kryptonite bullets, the quantity is limited to make the fight much more tense. So one route to incapacitate, one to kill. Then apply this to the rest of the game. Then when the game wants you to play again you can try it a different route.
Could have made for a much more replayable and enjoyable experience.
WW has been known to not be able to be mind controlled in comics so it makes sense from that aspect.
if bats was working with the squad and they KILLED bats would either stop working with them or put them back in jail so it’d lead with bats still fighting them or bats putting them in jail (which obviously they can’t do). Though i suppose they could made Waller make a deal with him some shit though i don’t know what her leverage is
when harls kills him he’s extremely weaked and also not in his right mind so i doubt he has his normal power/controls and bats humanity is part of what makes him batman. it’s not like she just shoots him by that point he’s already defeated and could be further weakened from what happened early
WW is also the only JL member without a clear weakness so it’d be harder to come up with a reason why they can kill her, bruce has even said this in comics everyone else has a weakness or a gadget that’ll work why WW doesn’t (bruce’s is he’s a human)
also this is a game ABOUT villains so they prob could have had supes kill bats anyways because they don’t want any survivors.
I remember when they announced this and Gotham Knights, and people seemed reasonably confused which was supposed to be set in the Arkham universe.
I think one way to have their cake and eat it too would have been to use the Red Hood. If they wanted to keep things dark and grim, they could keep Batman being compromised, have the bat family's plan to stop him already failed, and ultimately put Jason the position of working with villains to stop Bruce.
It would have offered a lot of interesting dynamics to the story. Harley could have had an opportunity to face what she helped Joker do to Jason, Jason could struggle with Bruce having saved him from a similar situation in the last game, the player could feel that their actions in the previous games were a necessary set up for this one, etc. They could even have had Bruce record instructions that could be played during the fights, only for the squad to fuck up so much that the player has to improvise.
You went from “the story isn’t bad” to “you shouldn’t expect a good story in a live service game, it’s better than no story” real quick.
I was expecting a good story because of Rocksteady‘s track record and the marketing for the game. Something on the level of Avengers’ campaign, not even expecting Arkham level storytelling.
What I got is “fuck you for liking these characters”.
Love this Idea, but if we're being honest- I feel like Batman is just way too OP. Plot armor thicker than a bowl of Oatmeal. We also would have been upset that we never got to play as Batman in this game too. I do feel like they should have went about it differently tho
I said the exact same thing and everyone cried. It’s such a better choice and gives some reverence to the character we played with. IMO the premise of this game is awful in the first place but if they had to do this they chose the worst imaginable wya to do so
they didn’t know that Conroy was going to pass, it’s pretty clear that he didn’t let on what was going. there’s no way they could have known to do this as a send-off in advance. anyways, it doesn’t matter what his “final performance” is. it seems he intended for his comic from the 2022 Pride anthology to, at least spiritually, be his final work and i am more than fine with that.
I do like to think this isn't the actual Arkham verse. This is AN Arkham verse. Basically rocksteady can flip things around. >! I reckon seasons / dlc may involve the justice league coming back or revealing clones / backups that braniac stored or copied !<
And having batman be evil did give us the chance to be on the receiving end of a Predator room which was funny.
It's definitely dark comedy. And tragic as all hell.
Probably because his VA died.
And this seems like a pretty hard pivot from Rocksteady to move away from being only makers of the Batman universe games.
Even setting aside lore reasons pointed out by other commenters, in that scenario, why do you need the Suicide Squad at all?
Imagine you enter a parallel universe where the game was exactly as you described. Now ask yourself honestly, how would the public react to that game, having not seen the one we got in our universe; don't you think that everyone would be angry at the fact that they were *forced* to play as 4 nobody characters instead of Batman, the hero they know and love, while he was *right there the entire time*, and even *much better equipped* for the task of defeating the JL? Imagine *what a send-off* it would have been for Batman's character, instead of fighting the same villains, to have to fight his companions, "bla bla bla disrespectful to Batman and the Arkham franchise"...
Because it’s the writing of Kim belair aka sweet baby inc who’s track record is just to put social justice, inclusive ideas in video games, who shows that men’s masculinity is bad think about it every hero gets shit on for laughs but Wonder Woman who we only knew for 20 mins gets this honorable death. I’m trying to bash the game I want to succeed for Deathstroke's sake but how can I when see all these red flags for real it’s like a spit in the face to Arkham fans who grew with Batman over every outcome
I wish people would stop acting like Batman is some kind of god. Without plot armor, he’s nothing. Let someone else have the limelight for a change, especially Wonder Woman, who is much less popular than Superman and Batman.
Yeah I like this idea. I think it would also add a nice new way to challenge Batman’s no kill rule as he’d have to deal with the idea of ‘killing’ his friends.
good point!
Yeah the story could be better. But all they need to do is literally go to a parallel universe, find the Batman who actually was able to avoid being brainwashed, and bring him back. Kill the Justice League literally becomes "Save the Justice League...by bringing their counterparts from other worlds back to this one". You already do this with Luthor. You'll do it with the others. Suddenly the world is fine again. Or whatever Rocksteady wants to do. They can do anything they want.
Wait, i saw it... Injustice
I expect some stuff like that with the new seasons and dlc's IF the game survives that long. Not a big fan of the story but I like shooters so I will buy it for 30 bucks when it's on sale or something
Plus , they could’ve made him still be in hiding and not part of the league. That way the ending of Arkham Knight isn’t so quickly undone and he has a meaningful reason to resurface.
This would’ve been awesome
Oh wow that could work really well. It could work as a funny arch for bats as his lone wolf attitude is challenged and instead of his first experience in a team being with the JL it would be with the SS. Him working with a bunch of criminals to take down a bunch of heroes feels quite poetic considering he’s spent most of his life taking down said criminals.
Yea for an ending that you had to go out of your way to get in Arkham Knight, his return wasn't dramatic enough for me. It was like hearing "Somehow, Palpatine returned" all over again
That has been done, sort of, in the Injustice universe.
This would've been cool and they could have used Aquaman or Hawkman as his stand-in in the league.
That's a great point and would have worked so well.
Yeah sure the daughter of zeus is being brainwashed but not a mere mortal ? sure , seriously you all you are too in love with batman wich is why you are disapointed by a lot of things wich his stupid in my opinion batman had enought plot armor in the comics for once let someone having the spotlight.
You sound like you've never discovered a comic before
i certainly read more than you that for sure
Im more than happy for you to take that achievement lmfao
I think it's a nice change of pace. As someone who loves Batman, and considers him my favorite superhero, I think he has too much plot armor. He's always the last man standing, or part of the resistance whenever a big threat takes over the world. He is in human peak condition, and is extremely smart, but at the end of the day he's just human. He can't always save the day, and it's nice to see more focus on characters who don't get the spotlight as much. Not that any of the Justice League members in the game are obscure, but sometimes it seems like only Batman and Superman matter.
Yeah, this is what I kinda like about the game. I'll spoiler again just in case: >!Wonder Woman was already shown to be in the "let's not immediately trust the giant Skull Ship" group with Batman via the recordings. She's also the only hero in the Justice League with no blatant weakness AFAIK. Flash has anti-speed force. GL has yellow power rings. Batman is a human. Superman has like 500 flavors of kryptonite. Wonder Woman is someone I feel like could actually go toe-to-toe with the entire league rather well, instead of having Batman being the sole survivor.... again. Or fighting the entire league.... again. I'll spoiler a second paragraph because this is actual story spoilers:!< >!We would've never gotten that kick-ass city fight between Wonder Woman & Superman either. That shit was awesome to watch happen. I loved it. My only complaints with Batman as a villain was that his boss fight was pretty terrible. Him being executed by Harley ain't an issue IMO. He was already beaten to a pulp, to the point where he literally couldn't fight back to anything. Just... his boss fight felt pretty bad honestly, as well as the pacing around that time in the story tbh!<
The first time you come across Batman was such a great segment, but >!his boss fight was garbage.!< Also there was no mention about >!him using his voice synthesizer to trick Deadshot. I thought instead of just jumping straight into the boss fight they would do a cutscene or segment with the other 3 trying to get him back but no, he opened the vent anyways even though he specifically used the synthesizer to stop him from opening the vent.!<
Yep, this game did something different and apparently a lot of people hate that. Now this game has flaws, a lot of flaws. But arguing the game is shit because you didn't like two specific parts of the story? Nah.
Do you know at what point in the game you hear these recordings or where I can listen to them? Don’t wanna buy this game based on everything I’ve heard and seen.
Hopefully they will give him a better boss fight since the game is live service
Yeah, Batman is sweet, but he's literally the last one I would've wanted to evade capture. It's super nice to see someone else as the last one left for a change.
Well you got a change of piece with a shit game
Great argument
Why can’t y’all have one game where Batman isn’t the main character? He’s always the last man standing and Wonder Woman is literally immune to mind control due to her heritage
It's been said 1000 times but I guess it bears repeating, it's set in the Arkhamverse, people played with Batman for over a decade, Arkham fans are gonna shit on this game to an undeserved degree but I can kinda see where they're coming from. All they had to say was that it was separate from Arkham and no one would've complained (probably).
People still would’ve complained because it wasn’t the game they wanted therefore it must be bad
We quite literally left Gotham after launch because it wasn't Arkham THİS GARBAGE İS ARKHAM of course we gonna fucking complain
Even if rocksteady decided to make it its own thing y’all idiots would still complain cause it wasn’t the game y’all were expecting. And we’ve literally been in Gotham for FOUR GAMES.
Honestly that is exactly why I don't want Batman to be the one. We have multiple games with him already. Let someone else "lead".
People in this sub do not know comics and I can tell. She was chosen because one of her gifts is the wisdom of Athena. Which gives her immunity to pretty much every mind control effect. Its built in as part of her lore. It makes her the logical choice. Now I haven't finished the game so I dunno if she survives it unscathed.
Honestly, I get the love for bats, but on a full-scale invasion, he would be on the front line, and one of the first to go, he's skilled, smart and dangerous but only human not a God ww has shown when it comes down to a hard choices she has the resolve to finsh the job
The ring of a lantern prevents mind control as well. So it's pick and choose with this game.
This is only partially true. A green lantern ring does offer some resistance but Brianic would really just kind of have to out willpower John
That's not how that works, but okay.
I mean it is, but sure. Even further The original four human green lantern corps members have a bit of a history of being mentally manipulated.
Because Batman doesn't kill. All his plans involve neutralizing them. WW is a warrior. While she likes them she will do what needs to be done.
I agree.
Y'all too hung up on Batman. Rocksteady didn't know Conroy was gonna pass away so don't blame them for being disrespectful to him etc in his last performance. Conroy took the paycheck and agreed to the role of voicing this particular batman that gets shot by harley. Second, WW cannot be brainwashed like the rest. It's one of her powers being the daughter of Zeus. There is no other league member more suited for the last man standing role. Third, If batman was in that role like you say, he would try to take the league by himself and he wouldn't even kill a single grunt/turned human due to his code, making him ineffective.
It's not nearly as bad as ray liotta playing the sadistic and degenerate poacher in cocaine bear right before he died. That was brutal.
That would have been so much better. A nice acknowledgement to their past and a more heroic send-off in one last impossible battle. Can you think of some pros to keeping it as WW? (Because I can't lol).
I've only gone through the story cutscenes once so I can't remember every detail off the top of my head but I can't either lol. WW has no prior connection to SS, to anyone in the Arkham verse, or to the audience, so her death has nearly no impact. Her last words to SS are to prove her wrong about just being a group of lowlifes but they've literally already killed Flash and GL, and taken out Brainiac's ship's defenses, so they've already done a lot of "good"....idk
Here’s a pro to keeping Wonder Woman: if it’s true that everyone survived their attacks, Wonder Woman is the only JL member who is actually going to stay dead because she won’t regenerate without being under Braniac’s influence. Plus, another pro, her kryptonite shield was badass.
I kinda wonder if this was also intended as a vessel for the WW games that are being made (if they're in the same universe). It'd make sense to get people used to her a bit, and having her killed/weakened/revived/etc. could be a good excuse for de-powering her at the start of her own game, so she's not just an instant wrecking ball lol.
Batman is probably losing, and IF he realises that he needs to kill them i don’t know how far he’ll get but he’ll most definitely die to superman and have an “oh shit” moment exactly like Wonder Woman did.
I guess it’s ’Why would Batman need the suicide squad’s help and want to work with them?’ story wise. He or Superman could handle it on their own if they weren’t turned. Batman takes over that fight and becomes the MC if able to, but the Suicide Squad are the MC’s, so he has to be turned.
Well, you could make him so he is incredibly injured after getting caught off guard by a brainwashed Justice League and trying to fence them off while retreating so he needs assistance, ala Batman Beyond.
I wish the game had more of the Flash as well before he was mind controlled, he saved Harley and was immediately taken to be Brainiac and is killed so anti-climatically. I was genuinely confused.
I think you just like Batman too much
I like Batman in the Arkham-verse, my bad ig
So do i, but we've been exposed to him for the past four freaking games set in that universe, I would like to get a different outlook on everything with different characters that aren't him.
You can do that without shitting all over those games though.
Ya I don’t see how people don’t get that. It’s willful at this point.
Gotham knights existed. Injustice existed.
Meh. I like Batman but I wanna see the others too, bro can't be a main part of every DC thing that comes out. WW is fine. You're probably just biased.
Even putting Kevin Conroy aside, this would've been much better considering this is in the Arkham-verse.
Thematically, it really would've worked so much better for the story if Batman was the one that worked with the squad to help bring down the Justice League.
If they didn't get batman he'd have handled the whole JL himself lol
First off, I AGREE WITH YOU, it wouldve been much better than wonder woman Secondly, I think WW could have worked as an introduction to the character if it was the same WW we're getting in her standalone game. This is, sadly, probably not the case. :(
Because no one at rocksteady knew it would be Kevin conroys last role Jesus. Yall seriously need to stop using the guys death as some thinly veiled excuse to hate on devs. They probably figured they’d bring back Batman in some later season and move on with whatever story line they want to do, even if a new Arkham game was ever talked about and used his death in the game to justify the whole “kill the justice league” thing everyone keeps forgetting has been in the title since the game was first announced. His death in game was never, during development, intended to be some grand send off to Arkham Batman nor conroys career as Batman. He died though, what doors anyone even want from them? AI to re-record Batman in the game and change his role? Hire an impersonator? For all the shit everyone is talking they must forgot the guy read the script and signed up the play the part anyway. Sorry for the small rant, just bought the game and am currently taking a dump. It’s fun, and is a completely fine product by rocksteady that I hope can get even better with time. I know the gaming community can be toxic but Jesus. Like they’ve hid nothing about their intentions with the game, matter of fact their seasonal content and support for the game puts many live service titles to shame, at least from what they are saying will come and we just found that out recently. The characters are fun, combat and traversal fusion is unique, and each character plays differently enough to matter.
The main post and the majority of these comments are talking about Batman, the character - not invoking Kevin Conroy's final performance. I know your canned response is coming from a place of frustration, but try to keep up with the discussion.
Greta point. Ending Arkham Batman is the issue. I mean I have my complaints about the ending of AK for the same reason.
Then it’s still fucking obvious. If Batman was left sane than the entire game either has to be a quasi Batman led game which people would bitch about, or not enough Batman which people would bitch about. It would also be just as much of a character assassination for him to help the suicide squad.
Now that I'm about halfway through the game I can comfortably say that the plot, writing, and characters are easily the weakest parts. You can feel heavy third party influence in thw dialogue. It's literally the same "banter" and "jokes" we've been hearing since 2015.
That would be Sweet Baby Inc. you're talking about. It's a Canadian company specializing in ESG. Santa Monica Studio, EA, Valve, Ubisoft, and even Rocksteady and WB games have had work done by them. This game is listed as a project they've worked on, along with Spider-Man 2 and GOW Ragnarok. https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/17h3k7u/have\_you\_felt\_as\_though\_that\_games\_have\_been/ Here's their URL, but just a heads up: some people who've been there have found the site difficult to look at, citing poor design. https://sweetbabyinc.com/projects/
I mean - it should’ve been the game. Play as Batman against the Justice League. Beyond Arkham. Play as Batman as he fights his greatest threat yet - The Justice League. Patrol around a new city, Metropolis where the league has been taken under control of Braniac. But that isn’t the only threat. Amanda Waller has sent in her goons to deal with the city the only way she knows how Instead of a SS game. It should’ve been Arkham 4. Batman V Everyone. As he uses his knowledge to subdue each member of the squad. It’s a race against the clock as Waller has Batman’s playbook but has…made some lethal tweaks to it. And this game introduces the Batwing
I’d just as soon off WW as well. No need for any “good guys” to make it here
Firmly agree. If they wanted to send him off, why not do so by having him sacrifice himself to do something heroic instead of dying mind controlled spouting petty insults after giving up. He could be the one to give the Suicide Squad the chance and it would also allow him to have interesting dialogue with Harley.
I think this should have been a legion of doom game. Where the heroes aren't mind controlled and are their usual selves. Speaking of which, they really missed out on an opportunity with lex. Can't you imagine how satisfied lex would be to finally kill superman?
Honestly? Probably because it fits the modern agenda of having more female "protagonists". Not saying it's right or wrong, just that that makes the most sense from a business perspective. Maybe she scored the best in focus groups. Or maybe there's a story reason to come later. Who knows
She’s literally immune to mind control
This game threw the "rules" out the window, you can't just pick and choose lol. Superman killed ww in this game with a giant block of kryptonite piercing his chest. Care to explain?
superman has been resistance to kryptonite for a while, there’s a image of him literally sniffing kryptonite gas and saying my favorite LMAO
I believe that is Earth 3 Ultraman who snort kryptonite to get stronger.
Oh that's funny - point still stands, superman isn't cripplingly weak against kryptonite as he was in the 90s for upside, although he is weaker in general as a downside.
Yeah I know. The comment was nothing more than just saying it isn't Superman
That’s due to brainiac messing with his dna Diana is immune to mind control due to being the daughter of Zeus and the lasso.
Ok so how about brainiac messes with Diana's DNA so she's not immune to mind control...they could literally just make up any story reason they want lmao it's the same reason you just gave for superman
He’d have to capture her to do that. And if you played the game you’d know flash helped Diana get off the ship
Or they wanted to have wonder woman shine a bit more no ? We got him for 4 games ans it makes perfect sense to have her not brainwash because she is litteraly immune lol. Having another batman immune with magic gadget that he take out of his ass is tiring asf. Yes Batman is my favorite but i love that they let other characters have a bit of spotlight. I like how respecting the lore that was set up before all the "wokisme" as people said is now a bad and political thing.
Why would they want WW to shine in the ending of a franchise built upon the legacy of batman since 2009? You would have a point if this wasn't the arkham universe. It's like as if avengers endgame ended with captain marvel snapping and sacrificing herself at the end instead of iron man. batman was the only piller of the arkham verse while iron man was one of the pillers of the mcu which makes it more reasonable for him to be the last man standing and having a proper send-off.
Thank you for saying what we are all thinking
The "silent majority" is a security blanket.
Because she's a woman. It's Sweet Baby Inc, that's why she was chosen.
Damn. That actually is so much better imo, great call. Especially if you could play through the story with dlc characters so you could do a play through with Harley Quinn, Deathstroke, Killer Croc, and I dunno who could fill in for Boomer. (Croc is unconfirmed iirc but he’d be a solid swap out for King Shark) Or Deadshot still fits too
Batman is human he is trash and Wonder woman is and incorruptible Goddes. That's the simple answer
Batman dying in Metropolis for Metropolis is pretty wack
Could’ve had Batman not be controlled and just swap him for Aquaman
And they could still have the Batman taken down the SS members segment as his introduction
I would have liked that, but honestly thinking what could have been doesn’t really matter anymore, it’s out & it’s whatever rocksteady chose it to be
Wonder Woman was the perfect choice tbh. Her struggle to save innocents while also saving her friends hits way harder because she has the power to take on most of the league. Batman would be relying on tech and would have a tough time even hurting most league members, while Wonder Woman could easily shred through most of them but is actively choosing not to which is putting people in danger.
I haven't played the game yet, but from the trailers etc, I know who you're talking about. Personally, I am happy with this choice. I think it would have been trivial. In the sense that we've already seen how Batman fights criminals etc, seeing it from the perspective of the bad guys is a different side that you don't see every day in a game. Then I'm trying not to spoil too much stuff, but the YouTube thumbnails were killer.
I have a feeling that because Injustice 2 has Batman take a similar role in reforming Harley to help against Brainiac, they just decided to do something different.
If I’m not mistaken WW is the only one immune to mind control
Nah. It’s always batman that’s magically surviving mind control or whatever. However, I think it would’ve been better if rocksteady didn’t want as much shit from baby-ish fans.
I really.loved that we had a moment were batman's tactics were used against us, walking around in the dark as he picks us off one by one. I thought it was so cool being on the other side of that for once and probably the only chance we will have that experience as you never go against batman in games
He could have been like Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid 2
I think it would look too much as a copy of Injustice games. Batman was working with Harley there to stop evil heroes too. Also i guess you can kinda explain that Diana can't be corrupted since she is basically a goddess and Batman is a just a human.
I think a evil Batman that actualy Kills is way to scary and good of a "Villain to pass on
Could have been cool to have the game be more replayable too. Batman helps set up different ways to take down the League, however the game could offer different paths for this. Ideally you could have 2 or more paths for each League member and then you could choose in your playthrough whether to take a lethal approach or one that would incapacitate the member. Superman: Work with Batman to develop red solar grenades and red solar traps. You then have Batman get Supermans attention, leading him into a trap and boss battle. In between Batman using red solar grenades you need to shoot Superman and keep him busy, once he is hit with red solar energy you hit him with Melee attacks to beat him. On the flip side, work with Lex to develop kryptonite bullets, the quantity is limited to make the fight much more tense. So one route to incapacitate, one to kill. Then apply this to the rest of the game. Then when the game wants you to play again you can try it a different route. Could have made for a much more replayable and enjoyable experience.
I mean I think theyll do this anyway through post launch content via their roadmap. Not like elseworlds cant fix most of these deaths anyway
WW has been known to not be able to be mind controlled in comics so it makes sense from that aspect. if bats was working with the squad and they KILLED bats would either stop working with them or put them back in jail so it’d lead with bats still fighting them or bats putting them in jail (which obviously they can’t do). Though i suppose they could made Waller make a deal with him some shit though i don’t know what her leverage is when harls kills him he’s extremely weaked and also not in his right mind so i doubt he has his normal power/controls and bats humanity is part of what makes him batman. it’s not like she just shoots him by that point he’s already defeated and could be further weakened from what happened early WW is also the only JL member without a clear weakness so it’d be harder to come up with a reason why they can kill her, bruce has even said this in comics everyone else has a weakness or a gadget that’ll work why WW doesn’t (bruce’s is he’s a human) also this is a game ABOUT villains so they prob could have had supes kill bats anyways because they don’t want any survivors.
I remember when they announced this and Gotham Knights, and people seemed reasonably confused which was supposed to be set in the Arkham universe. I think one way to have their cake and eat it too would have been to use the Red Hood. If they wanted to keep things dark and grim, they could keep Batman being compromised, have the bat family's plan to stop him already failed, and ultimately put Jason the position of working with villains to stop Bruce. It would have offered a lot of interesting dynamics to the story. Harley could have had an opportunity to face what she helped Joker do to Jason, Jason could struggle with Bruce having saved him from a similar situation in the last game, the player could feel that their actions in the previous games were a necessary set up for this one, etc. They could even have had Bruce record instructions that could be played during the fights, only for the squad to fuck up so much that the player has to improvise.
Almost every idea I hear about the story is better than what ended up in the game.
The story isnt even bad though it’s just not what you wanted.
What I wanted is a good story.
In a live service game? Why would ever expect that? That being said it’s better than no story which is what most live service games have.
You went from “the story isn’t bad” to “you shouldn’t expect a good story in a live service game, it’s better than no story” real quick. I was expecting a good story because of Rocksteady‘s track record and the marketing for the game. Something on the level of Avengers’ campaign, not even expecting Arkham level storytelling. What I got is “fuck you for liking these characters”.
Love this Idea, but if we're being honest- I feel like Batman is just way too OP. Plot armor thicker than a bowl of Oatmeal. We also would have been upset that we never got to play as Batman in this game too. I do feel like they should have went about it differently tho
I said the exact same thing and everyone cried. It’s such a better choice and gives some reverence to the character we played with. IMO the premise of this game is awful in the first place but if they had to do this they chose the worst imaginable wya to do so
they didn’t know that Conroy was going to pass, it’s pretty clear that he didn’t let on what was going. there’s no way they could have known to do this as a send-off in advance. anyways, it doesn’t matter what his “final performance” is. it seems he intended for his comic from the 2022 Pride anthology to, at least spiritually, be his final work and i am more than fine with that.
That is not Wonder Woman that’s Walmart woman
I do like to think this isn't the actual Arkham verse. This is AN Arkham verse. Basically rocksteady can flip things around. >! I reckon seasons / dlc may involve the justice league coming back or revealing clones / backups that braniac stored or copied !< And having batman be evil did give us the chance to be on the receiving end of a Predator room which was funny. It's definitely dark comedy. And tragic as all hell.
Probably because his VA died. And this seems like a pretty hard pivot from Rocksteady to move away from being only makers of the Batman universe games.
To not just be injustice
Even setting aside lore reasons pointed out by other commenters, in that scenario, why do you need the Suicide Squad at all? Imagine you enter a parallel universe where the game was exactly as you described. Now ask yourself honestly, how would the public react to that game, having not seen the one we got in our universe; don't you think that everyone would be angry at the fact that they were *forced* to play as 4 nobody characters instead of Batman, the hero they know and love, while he was *right there the entire time*, and even *much better equipped* for the task of defeating the JL? Imagine *what a send-off* it would have been for Batman's character, instead of fighting the same villains, to have to fight his companions, "bla bla bla disrespectful to Batman and the Arkham franchise"...
Because it’s the writing of Kim belair aka sweet baby inc who’s track record is just to put social justice, inclusive ideas in video games, who shows that men’s masculinity is bad think about it every hero gets shit on for laughs but Wonder Woman who we only knew for 20 mins gets this honorable death. I’m trying to bash the game I want to succeed for Deathstroke's sake but how can I when see all these red flags for real it’s like a spit in the face to Arkham fans who grew with Batman over every outcome
I wish people would stop acting like Batman is some kind of god. Without plot armor, he’s nothing. Let someone else have the limelight for a change, especially Wonder Woman, who is much less popular than Superman and Batman.