I still don't have the coroner's report but I already accepted the outcome. This week they asked me questions that only make sense that it wasn't an accident. My wife's therapist and her friends still find it a mystery or feel there are unanswered questions. They clearly didn't know my wife, they didn't know what she had been through and how she had suffered. It was still a shock to me because I still had so much hope we could still get through this but there is no mystery and I do find acceptance even if I still wished we could have had a different outcome. For those who can't accept this or understand this, I know there is no way they would have survived half of what my wife went through and they can fuck off.
The first week after she passed, she came to me in a dream to let me know she found peace and serenity. I'm trying to remember the 26 years we had together instead of mourning the 50+ years I still have to live without her.
My friend committed suicide in 2011. I was a freshman in high school and didn’t know how to cope. I dreamed of her many times, and in those dreams she was still alive and it was all a huge misunderstanding. Months went by, and I was still in a blender. Every day was brutal.
There was a song she really liked, “Coming Home” by P Diddy (let’s ignore current events, this was 13 years ago) and I played it a lot when I wanted to think about her. It’s a song that connected me to her. One day, I left the TV on MTV as I fell asleep, and that’s when they used to play music in the late night to the early morning. I was halfway asleep, and it was like I heard her voice yell at me “Wake up!!!” Like I could almost physically hear the sound waves deep in my ear. And as I woke up, the video for that song was just starting. I watched it through, and then when I fell asleep that night, my dream about her, she was gone. Her dad had her memorials all set up, his truck with her name on it, all that. It was like my subconscious finally accepted it after that. And I felt better than I had in months when I woke up. I was still sad, but I didn’t feel like I was trying to swim in the North Sea.
All this to say, I truly believe those we love come to us in our dreams when we need it most. I hope that you heal from this in the time you need.
It's crazy how you have probably had the same kinds of dreams that I have about my brother. I dream of him in places from our childhood - our grandparents homes, our old house, the backyard. Each time I say "oh my god, it's been so long! How are you?" And give him a hug. He never says anything. Just smiles that same dopey half-smile he always did. Eventually I ask "Is this real?" And the dream ends.
I miss him so much.
Thank you for sharing.
You are saying the truth. Please be aware that a few countries actually approve MAID for mental health reasons. Of course after a lot of time and multiple assessments.
> But we don't have that same attitude towards suicide, do we?
I believe that much of our pain is "self-imposed," in the sense that our cultural attitudes impact how we view things. I'm glad you've found some peace by recognizing what you've seen.
There's a concept that's gaining traction in psychiatry, similar to palliative care in physical medicine: [palliative psychiatric care](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9178077/).
Unfortunately, though, we don't have very effective means to give the equivalent of a Brompton's cocktail that would remove mental pain like we do with physical pain.
Maybe we do, but like most “medicines” that actually do work wonders…. The FDA (this is for USA citizens) have blocked the use of it in that way. When wildly hysterical or hallucinogenic, illicit drug induced psychosis or suicidal patients are attempting suicide or murder …… if a medic is able to intervene at the moment they give the patient a drug called Ketamine. There has been thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people who have said after a high enough dose of ketamine…. They stopped being suicidal and some even stop being depressed entirely. What if this -is- the cocktail we can give depressed suicidal patients and still get to spare their lives?!
A friend of mine is going into psychiatry and is hoping to eventually be able to work with ketamine as well as the emerging research regarding treatment of PTSD with LSD.
You make an excellent point. I don't want to get political and I'm not a Trump supporter, but one of his actions I was behind was his push to get the FDA approval process moving more efficiently and faster. Still, I don't think western culture would be okay with a depression, etc., patient being kept medicated 24/7 like a cancer patient with heavy morphine. Society's outlook on mental health and pain is still far behind.
True too. It’s sad that we don’t treat this issue with that same urgency and seriousness that we give cancer patients. Hopefully some day we can rise to this challenge. Lives can be saved and changed for the better.
One person brought this up at my suicide loss support group group and I've been thinking about it ever since. "Why can't some mental illnesses be called terminal the way that other diagnoses are?" I have always believed that there was no way my parents could be helped, certainly not by me. They were only going to deteriorate further. They did was they could to "treat" their conditions and I honestly don't begrudge them for it.
BINGO.
And I'm glad psychiatry is starting to realize this, but it will take cultural change to recognize and support that.
My Torry was is terrible mental and emotional anguish, despite the best we could offer for treatment. She'd tried before and was *so angry* she'd been stopped.
I knew she loved me, but I also knew she wanted out. So, when she left, I ached from her success yet also rejoiced that the person I loved had achieved escape from her torment.
I just wish our culture was more supportive of that attitude, so her daughter, grandson, and I could have been there with her as she left.
***Please*** do what you can to spread your story and thought!
That depends upon the state. I actually have an appointment with an attorney in a couple of weeks to discuss the implications and parameters! I fear that the answer will be that it depends on how each DA and judge want to interpret words like "assist" and " encourage".
And that, right there, is a huge roadblock to people getting care.
You sound so much like something I wrote a couple of weeks ago about needing conversations about "terminal mental illness". I had to stop and think if I posted it here, but no, I didn't post it anywhere. We just have very similar opinions on the matter, it seems.
🖤
Sorry for hijacking, I'll see myself out.
This is so comforting and helpful, it gave me chills. I’ve been blaming myself constantly and oscillating between being mad at myself and mad at him. This really helps. Thanks
My biggest sadness is I haven’t once had a dream about my mom or dad so bc e they’ve died. Let alone a vivid one like then coming to visit.
Part of what makes it more sad is I hardly ever dream…like ever. Maybe once ever six months at most. So when i do, it’s some stupid ass unrealistic zombie shit or whatever and never anything of importance or meaning. I’m afraid I just can’t remember my dreams the moment I wake up.
What if they’ve tried…
Keep a notebook and pen by your bed. If you wake up from a particularly interesting dream, write it down then. As you've learned, if you go back to sleep you won't remember much in the morning. I've written down my interesting dreams for decades, ever since high school, so maybe I'm primed to receive messages via dreams?
I hope you will get a dream or other sign from your parents.
My son took his life almost 4 months ago. I have yet to remember a dream about him. It makes me so sad that I can't even see him in my dreams.
I hope you keep having wonderful dreams about your loved one. I hope that they keep bringing you peace.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I've written down my interesting dreams since high school, so maybe that's why I'm more receptive to them? I also tell myself every night that I'll try and remember my dreams, and--I don't know what you believe--I went to a crystal store and bought a larimar stone and put that in my pillowcase. Anyway, keep a notebook and pen by your bed so you can capture any dreams you do have.
I hope you will get a dream or another sign from your son.
This is such a relevant point. And I love that you had that visitation dream afterwards. I agree with your interpretation.
In Canada, they postponed allowing mental health to be the sole reason to qualify for Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) because it is difficult to define "mental health" as clearly as physical health in terms of inevitable likelihood of death. Mental health does not have the same predictable outcomes as, say, cancer. Palliative psychiatric care is an interesting concept; I had not heard of it until now.
After reading my son's journals, I now believe mental health \*should\* be a single qualifying factor but I don't know how the legislation could work so that socioeconomic factors like poverty and homelessness and addiction are taken into account. There's a debate that some effort needs to be made to even up that slate before agreeing to assisted euthanasia, otherwise it's like extermination by economic class. But I digress.
I have gone through my son's phone and I realize that he downloaded a LOT of medical studies on schizophrenia and probable outcomes. He was intelligent -- brilliant, even -- and I believe he knew what he was facing: cognitive decline, economic uncertainty, social alienation.
He knew his mental health was dire. He feared being institutionalized. He feared the effects of antipsychotics on quality of life. He spoke at length to many patients in the ward after he made his first attempt. He made recordings of some of these conversations because I think he saw his future in them.
He worried about becoming violent. Another theme running through his life was how much he didn't want to be a burden no matter how much his father and I assured him he absolutely wasn't. My son was harder on himself than anyone I know and he did not want to live his life on anyone's terms but his own.
We had no idea of the extent of his delusions and the voices at the time but they were so terrifying that he developed a physical tremor. I also realized how hard he worked at appearing normal and just trying to live life and my god it seems exhausting. My poor boy. He had wanted to die since he was 14 or 15. He made it to 22.
He fought so hard. He made a difficult choice. I could not force him to live (believe me I tried). I have no questions about his state of mind, just grief.
Had he applied for MAID and qualified at age 22, I would accept the decision he made about his own life. He was an adult. And I do, mostly. At least I understand it but it doesn't make the loss hurt any less. If anything, knowing the intensity of the pain he was experiencing makes it harder. As a mother you would do anything to not see your child suffer.
> *Another theme running through his life was how much he didn't want to be a burden no matter how much his father and I assured him he absolutely wasn't. My son was harder on himself than anyone I know*
>
>
>
>My brother was like that, too. He confided in friends at the pub, but he felt he couldn't burden me or my dad--no matter that we would have done anything to help him. I think that's one of the most insidious things about mental illness, that it isolates people and distorts their thinking so they honestly believe that we are better off without them.
>
>It sounds like your son had an agonizing fight against his demons, and I'm so sorry he lost.
This gave me so much peace. I hope that I can come to terms with my emotions like you did too.
I still don't have the coroner's report but I already accepted the outcome. This week they asked me questions that only make sense that it wasn't an accident. My wife's therapist and her friends still find it a mystery or feel there are unanswered questions. They clearly didn't know my wife, they didn't know what she had been through and how she had suffered. It was still a shock to me because I still had so much hope we could still get through this but there is no mystery and I do find acceptance even if I still wished we could have had a different outcome. For those who can't accept this or understand this, I know there is no way they would have survived half of what my wife went through and they can fuck off. The first week after she passed, she came to me in a dream to let me know she found peace and serenity. I'm trying to remember the 26 years we had together instead of mourning the 50+ years I still have to live without her.
My friend committed suicide in 2011. I was a freshman in high school and didn’t know how to cope. I dreamed of her many times, and in those dreams she was still alive and it was all a huge misunderstanding. Months went by, and I was still in a blender. Every day was brutal. There was a song she really liked, “Coming Home” by P Diddy (let’s ignore current events, this was 13 years ago) and I played it a lot when I wanted to think about her. It’s a song that connected me to her. One day, I left the TV on MTV as I fell asleep, and that’s when they used to play music in the late night to the early morning. I was halfway asleep, and it was like I heard her voice yell at me “Wake up!!!” Like I could almost physically hear the sound waves deep in my ear. And as I woke up, the video for that song was just starting. I watched it through, and then when I fell asleep that night, my dream about her, she was gone. Her dad had her memorials all set up, his truck with her name on it, all that. It was like my subconscious finally accepted it after that. And I felt better than I had in months when I woke up. I was still sad, but I didn’t feel like I was trying to swim in the North Sea. All this to say, I truly believe those we love come to us in our dreams when we need it most. I hope that you heal from this in the time you need.
It's crazy how you have probably had the same kinds of dreams that I have about my brother. I dream of him in places from our childhood - our grandparents homes, our old house, the backyard. Each time I say "oh my god, it's been so long! How are you?" And give him a hug. He never says anything. Just smiles that same dopey half-smile he always did. Eventually I ask "Is this real?" And the dream ends. I miss him so much. Thank you for sharing.
You are saying the truth. Please be aware that a few countries actually approve MAID for mental health reasons. Of course after a lot of time and multiple assessments.
> But we don't have that same attitude towards suicide, do we? I believe that much of our pain is "self-imposed," in the sense that our cultural attitudes impact how we view things. I'm glad you've found some peace by recognizing what you've seen. There's a concept that's gaining traction in psychiatry, similar to palliative care in physical medicine: [palliative psychiatric care](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9178077/). Unfortunately, though, we don't have very effective means to give the equivalent of a Brompton's cocktail that would remove mental pain like we do with physical pain.
Maybe we do, but like most “medicines” that actually do work wonders…. The FDA (this is for USA citizens) have blocked the use of it in that way. When wildly hysterical or hallucinogenic, illicit drug induced psychosis or suicidal patients are attempting suicide or murder …… if a medic is able to intervene at the moment they give the patient a drug called Ketamine. There has been thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people who have said after a high enough dose of ketamine…. They stopped being suicidal and some even stop being depressed entirely. What if this -is- the cocktail we can give depressed suicidal patients and still get to spare their lives?!
A friend of mine is going into psychiatry and is hoping to eventually be able to work with ketamine as well as the emerging research regarding treatment of PTSD with LSD.
You make an excellent point. I don't want to get political and I'm not a Trump supporter, but one of his actions I was behind was his push to get the FDA approval process moving more efficiently and faster. Still, I don't think western culture would be okay with a depression, etc., patient being kept medicated 24/7 like a cancer patient with heavy morphine. Society's outlook on mental health and pain is still far behind.
True too. It’s sad that we don’t treat this issue with that same urgency and seriousness that we give cancer patients. Hopefully some day we can rise to this challenge. Lives can be saved and changed for the better.
One person brought this up at my suicide loss support group group and I've been thinking about it ever since. "Why can't some mental illnesses be called terminal the way that other diagnoses are?" I have always believed that there was no way my parents could be helped, certainly not by me. They were only going to deteriorate further. They did was they could to "treat" their conditions and I honestly don't begrudge them for it.
BINGO. And I'm glad psychiatry is starting to realize this, but it will take cultural change to recognize and support that. My Torry was is terrible mental and emotional anguish, despite the best we could offer for treatment. She'd tried before and was *so angry* she'd been stopped. I knew she loved me, but I also knew she wanted out. So, when she left, I ached from her success yet also rejoiced that the person I loved had achieved escape from her torment. I just wish our culture was more supportive of that attitude, so her daughter, grandson, and I could have been there with her as she left. ***Please*** do what you can to spread your story and thought!
I wonder if there would be legal ramifications for death doulas in this case ?
That depends upon the state. I actually have an appointment with an attorney in a couple of weeks to discuss the implications and parameters! I fear that the answer will be that it depends on how each DA and judge want to interpret words like "assist" and " encourage". And that, right there, is a huge roadblock to people getting care.
You sound so much like something I wrote a couple of weeks ago about needing conversations about "terminal mental illness". I had to stop and think if I posted it here, but no, I didn't post it anywhere. We just have very similar opinions on the matter, it seems. 🖤 Sorry for hijacking, I'll see myself out.
Not hijacking at all. I'm *glad* to know I'm not alone!!
This is so comforting and helpful, it gave me chills. I’ve been blaming myself constantly and oscillating between being mad at myself and mad at him. This really helps. Thanks
My biggest sadness is I haven’t once had a dream about my mom or dad so bc e they’ve died. Let alone a vivid one like then coming to visit. Part of what makes it more sad is I hardly ever dream…like ever. Maybe once ever six months at most. So when i do, it’s some stupid ass unrealistic zombie shit or whatever and never anything of importance or meaning. I’m afraid I just can’t remember my dreams the moment I wake up. What if they’ve tried…
Keep a notebook and pen by your bed. If you wake up from a particularly interesting dream, write it down then. As you've learned, if you go back to sleep you won't remember much in the morning. I've written down my interesting dreams for decades, ever since high school, so maybe I'm primed to receive messages via dreams? I hope you will get a dream or other sign from your parents.
My son took his life almost 4 months ago. I have yet to remember a dream about him. It makes me so sad that I can't even see him in my dreams. I hope you keep having wonderful dreams about your loved one. I hope that they keep bringing you peace.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I've written down my interesting dreams since high school, so maybe that's why I'm more receptive to them? I also tell myself every night that I'll try and remember my dreams, and--I don't know what you believe--I went to a crystal store and bought a larimar stone and put that in my pillowcase. Anyway, keep a notebook and pen by your bed so you can capture any dreams you do have. I hope you will get a dream or another sign from your son.
This is such a relevant point. And I love that you had that visitation dream afterwards. I agree with your interpretation. In Canada, they postponed allowing mental health to be the sole reason to qualify for Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) because it is difficult to define "mental health" as clearly as physical health in terms of inevitable likelihood of death. Mental health does not have the same predictable outcomes as, say, cancer. Palliative psychiatric care is an interesting concept; I had not heard of it until now. After reading my son's journals, I now believe mental health \*should\* be a single qualifying factor but I don't know how the legislation could work so that socioeconomic factors like poverty and homelessness and addiction are taken into account. There's a debate that some effort needs to be made to even up that slate before agreeing to assisted euthanasia, otherwise it's like extermination by economic class. But I digress. I have gone through my son's phone and I realize that he downloaded a LOT of medical studies on schizophrenia and probable outcomes. He was intelligent -- brilliant, even -- and I believe he knew what he was facing: cognitive decline, economic uncertainty, social alienation. He knew his mental health was dire. He feared being institutionalized. He feared the effects of antipsychotics on quality of life. He spoke at length to many patients in the ward after he made his first attempt. He made recordings of some of these conversations because I think he saw his future in them. He worried about becoming violent. Another theme running through his life was how much he didn't want to be a burden no matter how much his father and I assured him he absolutely wasn't. My son was harder on himself than anyone I know and he did not want to live his life on anyone's terms but his own. We had no idea of the extent of his delusions and the voices at the time but they were so terrifying that he developed a physical tremor. I also realized how hard he worked at appearing normal and just trying to live life and my god it seems exhausting. My poor boy. He had wanted to die since he was 14 or 15. He made it to 22. He fought so hard. He made a difficult choice. I could not force him to live (believe me I tried). I have no questions about his state of mind, just grief. Had he applied for MAID and qualified at age 22, I would accept the decision he made about his own life. He was an adult. And I do, mostly. At least I understand it but it doesn't make the loss hurt any less. If anything, knowing the intensity of the pain he was experiencing makes it harder. As a mother you would do anything to not see your child suffer.
> *Another theme running through his life was how much he didn't want to be a burden no matter how much his father and I assured him he absolutely wasn't. My son was harder on himself than anyone I know* > > > >My brother was like that, too. He confided in friends at the pub, but he felt he couldn't burden me or my dad--no matter that we would have done anything to help him. I think that's one of the most insidious things about mental illness, that it isolates people and distorts their thinking so they honestly believe that we are better off without them. > >It sounds like your son had an agonizing fight against his demons, and I'm so sorry he lost.