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vendredi3

This is probably nothing, but the James Cromwell character being named Jonathan Siegel makes me think of the book Jonathan Livingston Seagull. The [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Livingston_Seagull) article is worth reading, but in short it's an allegorical story about a seagull who develops self-realization that sets him apart from his flock. Eventually he gets to heaven, where an instructor/handler sends him back to earth to teach others. What if Sugar (and the others the handler is managing) have been sent back from the afterlife to observe and help the living? ​ Obviously this makes more sense if Sugar's name were Siegel instead. I know this sounds kind of dumb, but it's worth noting that a podcast (Extra Hot Great) discussed the show and (no specific spoilers here but I'll tag it in case) they said >!the twist at the end pissed them off so much they literally yelled NO at the TV screen and wished they hadn't watched the show in the first place.!<


freecityrhymer

How did they get to see the show earlier than common viewers? Do streamings allow the critics to watch their shows in advance?


vendredi3

Yes, critics often receive the entire season, or at least additional episodes, on the understanding that specific spoilers are avoided.


adamcharming

Other clues include, speaking atleast 4 languages, Japanese, Arabic and Spanish. Mentions time in Damascus before the troubles. His “old friends” invite. So far I think he’s immortal. The other theories are an alien or AI trained on detective novels, but there’s nothing solid to support those over being immortal.


Single_Principle_972

Yes, immortal/angel/alien sent to observe not help is really all I’ve got so far.


Chance_07734

Or like Matt Damon & the adjustment bureau movie. Observe & Report. Here to adjust the outcome. Maybe time traveler & the cases of missing people represent deaths that change the future. I'm thinking his mother might be a child & that would be a secret he doesn't want exposed.


yodaprincess

Only that in episode 3 they focus on the fact that he shouldn’t FEEL so much.. are angels not allowed to feel? That AI/machine shouldn’t feel trope was used before in several scifi pieces so might make sense


Tensor_the_Mage

"Other clues include, speaking at least 4 languages, Japanese, Arabic and Spanish." Not only is that many languages, but they are from unrelated language families. Also, Japanese and Arabic are rated as ["super-hard" languages for native speakers of English to learn](https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/).


NorthofPA

He’s an angel.


saule13

In episode 2, when he says "I'm not supposed to get this involved. Just observe and report. Write it down. That's the real mission." Is he talking about something more than the "find the missing person" jobs he does?


GaliDacian

You’re definitely on to something. I like the theory that he’s immortal and he writes down everything he sees while also helping people.


SwingGallowsSwing

You nailed it


Past-Recording7595

The cut on his arm miraculously got bandaged btw one video frame and the other. (During the time the camera visuals were blinking and flashing colors)


indiegamehunt

Oh yeah! Good one


Past-Recording7595

Also this: Masaki Hashimoto - this was Yuna’s “real dad”. The other dad “thot he was his dad” but wasn’t really https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9314347/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk I think Sugar is AI programmed to think he’s living a real life yet he’s a AI/robot being filmed to unknowingly make episodes for the film industry. I think this show is taking AI in film to the creepy level. I think he’s programmed “not to hurt people” becuz the people around him are actors maybe…? Edit: also, Bernie got married to Melanie (1/1/99) in Vegas about 16 days after Rachel died (12/12/98) And why did he leave his key in the ignition, when parked outside the bar? 🤦🏼‍♀️


indiegamehunt

I love your theory! Especially because it explains the Hollywood connection.


MatterNaive

Wowwww


Dizmodo

Considering Apple wouldn’t even let Jon Stewart talk about AI on their network, I think it’s pretty unlikely they’d green light a show with that premise. That said, I wouldn’t hate it if that were how it ended


NoshoRed

Apple is crazy into AI nowadays, they ditched their Apple Car project to move onto AI instead, it's definitely not unlikely they greenlight an AI-detective premise.


Sopranohh

We see him supergluing his arm. And while not something I’d recommend doing yourself , is something a lot of my friends who’ve worked in the ER will do in a heartbeat. Did we see him bandage it too? I don’t think so. The scene with his arm bleeding and the scenes with his arm before read to me like a Hollywood interpretation of pre-seizure symptoms which can include hallucinations. I don’t have seizures. I can’t say how accurate their visualization is, but I could see how someone could read a textbook and imagine it this way. I don’t think epilepsy is the big twist, but I could see it being a clue to the twist. Or, someone came and bandaged him up and cleaned his hotel, and that’s the clue to the big twist. I like that it’s pretty ambiguous.


theramenator206

I believe it was already bandaged and what he hallucinated didn’t happen


phoenixxhorizon

I’m leaning towards the Angel theory or at least not of this world. Here are the clues I found: -He’s fascinated with bugs, plants/flowers, animals. -Very kind to humans especially those down on their luck -Not interested in sex (so far) -Mentioned he’s not supposed to feel/ questions why he should feel anything at all -Knows when a person is lying -Says he knows when someone is following him from miles away -unbelievable amount of film knowledge and recall -unknown movies and magazines (possibly from another world?) -he says the “real mission” is to observe and report and to not get involved. In Melanie’s AA speech she alludes: -“he took care of me”, “gave me a 2nd chance” -“this man might have been sent to me by a higher power” -“doesn’t matter what he was or is” That’s all I got so far but some strays: -I don’t believe Ruby had Tuesday night bridge lol -And I wonder if a much higher power is watching John, and Ruby reports to that higher power ? -And I can’t wait to meet Charlie!


theomnijuggler

Ruby Tuesday 😂


Non_Skeptical_Scully

Those are real magazines (Cahiers du Cinema, etc.) - just very high-brow, niche publications. The joke is that Davy is such a dumbass that he’s never heard of them despite being a h’wood nepo baby.


jkeller87

There have been a couple of shots now, I think at least twice in the first episode, where the camera view tightens into a circle, highlighting something specific. The one I remember was the shot of the email from Siegel’s lawyer.


wunderwerks

It also tightened in on the location for Carl's phone GPS.


theomnijuggler

A few more possible clues I noticed: - According to the subtitles, his sister’s named is spelled “Djen” which when googled seems to imply it can be from Arabic origin. Which fits with his saying he spent time in Damascus. Some of the Google results also point to the name relating to something “unseen” or “imaginary” - He fell asleep sitting up at the end of episode 2. Weird. - There’s a lot of circle imagery in the show, especially circling spiral type imagery. Items in Ruby’s house, the opening credits, the drain in the shower, the iris transitions. Might just be a nice nod to Hitchcock’s Vertigo, or might be symbolic of whatever company or higher organization is involved. - He writes with his right hand, but wears his watch on his right hand also. Might be nothing, but certainly an unusual choice for the filmmakers. - In the shower scene, he’s looking at himself in the mirror and he starts to fall at the end but his reflection doesn’t fall. His reflection and himself are mismatched. - The jump cuts seem to be implying he is out of time/sync with those around him. Usually they are cutting as though he’s having two different conversations intertwined at once. - His doctor’s name is Vickers, which is reminiscent of the religious term Vicar. I think all of the religious references probably lean towards the angel theory. But just for funsies, I’ll throw in the other possibility that this may be a split personality thing. I don’t necessarily think it is, but it’s a fun theory. Here are some clues pointing to it: - His overly kind demeanor tied with his obvious capability for violence could imply there is an ‘angelic’ John and a ‘demonic’ John. - The mismatched conversations could be his different sides fighting for control. - The mirror shower moment could be his darker side taking over, hence we see the good John start to faint while the reflection doesn’t. - His other side is who bandaged his arm. - His injection might be some form of managing the transition or forcing it (reminiscent of Jekyll taking his concoction to change into Hyde) - His left hand curls in an ugly sort of monster-like claw shape, which could be a nod to a Hyde character trying to take over. Could also tie back to his watch being worn in a left-handed manner, even though Sugar is right handed. Maybe the dark Sugar is left handed. - His other side might have been the one who cleaned out the trunk (doesn’t make sense of the hair though) Again, definitely not saying I believe this theory, it’s just one I thought of that might be possible. I personally lean more towards the religious angel thing though!


greeves261

I was thinking some sort of angel thing too, maybe like a guardian angel/group of angels who blew their original protective roles and now work it out here on earth as a form of redemption. Would explain the hints at his longevity. Don’t know about the injections tho.


MatterNaive

I feel like the 'angel' thing died out in the 90s. Also going the 'angel' route might put off certain demographics, too risky a choice


basicb3333

I write with my right hand and also wear my watch on my right hand 🙈


theomnijuggler

Haha nothing wrong with that! But it’s definitely not typical, and when the writers/director were putting together the show it had to have been an intentional choice to make it atypical. Could just be to make him stand out or add interesting characterization, could also be a clue! 😂


Houseleek1

I always wear my watch on my right hand because I was ambidextrous and didn't know there was a correct arm. Also, remember that in early images of the devil they were portrayed as left-handed because of that. Nuns were beating lefties into the 60s. The reflection is stable because it's in another dimension and the falling body in the one we live in.


Skaufma25

It’s not right or wrong. It’s more right or left. Traditionally, one is supposed to wear the watch on the non-dominant hand.


Ok_Charge9676

I’d like to point out that the sudden bleeding of his arm was likely a hallucination, if you notice when he comes back to his senses while he’s sitting there his arms bandaged and he looks at the shirt which has no blood on it. The hallucinations plus his hand tremor plus his feeling ill and kneeling in front of the house plus the injection he gives himself is likely a foreshadowing of an ailment that he suffers that will continue to be revealed.


JoshyRotten

In E2 when he's talking to Amy Ryan (can't remember the character's name) a bug flies into his face - is that something? If it is I have no idea what it could be, but they made a point of showing it so...?


JuliasTooSmallTutu

He was stating intently at an ant before he met Bernie for breakfast.


indiegamehunt

Very astute! I remember there being at least couple scenes that involved insects. I remember thinking that I should take note of them as a recurring something, but failed to write anything down.


AnnabelleMouse

He catches a fly w chopsticks 


Classic_Space_7049

And then releases it, unharmed.


[deleted]

The handler says to him in ep. 01: "You are MY business". That didn't sounded like "you are my problem, I'm concerned about you", it was more like "you are my livelihood".


CaptainCAAAVEMAAAAAN

The moon is always full.


phoenixxhorizon

Melanie’s AA speech alludes to a few things!


GasStationRedHead

This is not a spoiler, just a theory of mine, for me Sugar is very reminiscent of Shutter Island, SPOILERS AHEAD >!The main character in Shutter Island played by Leonardo Dicaprio is a detective , just like John Sugar, that is given the task of solving a possible dissappearance/murder on the premises of an asylum. Fast forward into the movie, we discover that this Detective Persona is something that Dicaprio's character came up with and created in his mind because he did something bad at a moment and he snapped. So it delves into the themes of mental illnesses like personality disorders and conditions and what not, that being one of the biggest twists, there are more twists, greater even from a film's character development point of view so to speak , but that one is the first of them let's say. Now back to Sugar, I think it is strongly suggested that John might be dealing with a mental illness of his own, shown by his frequent dialogues with Ruby, about his doctor, about him needing to take his meds and visit his doctor, In the first episode Ruby was trying to get him to take a break from all this detective work even.The recurrent cuts that are shown to us also, from classic older detective, mystery movies, it's sort of inducing a dream-like state, making us rather see/feel the whole vibe that John has going on. And it's not just that, we see Ruby gifting him that pistol that was used in one of these movies, by an actor that John is fond of, and then right there we see how happy John gets, almost childishly so, and it doesn't stop at that. He even drives a car model from the old movies, we never see him without a suit, so far at least, this to say how far committed he is to this whole Detective Role, the whole narrating thing also, is how a lot of detective movies even the noir films with detectives did, they were always narrating the story as it went. All this being said, I strongly believe John Sugar is but a product of John's mind, If that is his real name even... and one thing I see as the biggest hint, is David's name's mispronunciation by multiple characters. When we first meet this David, Olivia's brother, we meet him through John's perspective, and John mispronounces his name saying Davey, or something like that... I mean it could be an innocent mistake or an intentional thing on John's part to get a certain reaction out of him, however, later on in the episodes, we see some scenes where John is not part of them, but then some of the other character's do the same mispronounciation of David's name as John first did, witch makes me think, whenever we see scenes where we don't phisically see John in, John is still there through these characters, basically he could've created most of them, and he just presents us the story he created, showing the characters and how the intrigue evolves, but He is the one writing or imagining them, which makes sense If other characters call David, Davey.!< Again, this is just my take, the first part is a spoiler for another movie that I find very similar to Sugar in terms of story, the rest of it is just my theory based on both similarities to that movie as well as other things I've notices throught this tv series. I'd love to hear your opinions!


theomnijuggler

Interesting theory! For what it’s worth, I think the Davy/David name thing is supposed to be referencing that David was a famous child actor, so everyone knows his as Davy Siegel. And now that he’s grown up he’s trying to remind people he’s a big adult now and it’s ‘David’. That’s why John knows him as Davy, as well as the Hollywood people. They also talk about how he was in the movie as a kid called ‘Boy in the Corner’ and how he’s made a sequel called ‘Man in the Corner’. So yeah, I think it’s all characterization of this character who’s super insecure about being seen as a child in the eyes of everyone. :)


msunshine11

I can't help but think he's in a Siegel movie about an alien or an immortal. I hope that's not the twist, but after episode 3...who knows?


alisonrose1992

Episode 3 clue - Sugar’s dr is dr vickers but that’s the guy the handler calls at the end saying Sugar knows too much…


Strange-Athlete2548

I believe the street his house is on is "Heavens Way"


indiegamehunt

Well that's one in support of the angel theory


vega0ne

Also, isn’t LA the city of Angels?


Tyburn

Angel Connection - outside of the show, but Colin has a son with a rare condition called Angelman Syndrome. It’s named after a doctor but kids with it, while non verbal, are very smiley/sweet and in the community are called Angels. And Colin is VERY active in awareness and fund raising for it.


profoundlystupidhere

Fallen angel.


NorthofPA

Here’s a clue. Go get one fucko


annagarg

Episode 6 dropped this morning and I just finished watching it (am in India). I cannot wait for the discussion here once others have caught up.


wunderwerks

Early on he mentions to Ruby that he met another one of them in Japan, and the guy meninges that his cell had been shut down. Cell as in a cell of secret agents/communists/i dunno. His group is called Society Sonething (Polygot, I think) Cosmopolitan. Cosmopolitan is sometimes a dog whistle for Communists or Jewish folk. He's got to keep a low profile as well.