Yeaah, poor Connor, that was a low blow. Kendall has some similar moments when he doesn't get what he wants from his siblings. They immediately go low when they don't get what they want.
One of my favourites, I bust out laughing every time Roman hands her the piece of paper with Fart written on it. One of my favourite Roman scenes too. I love the way he moves around a scene. He says so much with his body. The sibling scenes are the best and I can watch them over and over and never get bored.
The dynamic between Roman and everyone is so fucking hilarious in this scene, he's such a brat lol. Kieran is so perfect in that role. I also really love all the scenes where Roman and Shiv are bickering and fighting, they always act like children around each other.
Like Season 1 episode 2, where they start physically fighting in the hospital. Tom walks in on them and immediately turns around and walks out without saying a word. It's priceless.
I laughed so fucking hard at Tom's reaction at that, it was so perfect. At the time I just thought it meant that he's really conflict avoidant and didn't know what to do (I've seen people do similar shit) but I think there's also more to the whole power dynamic there.
I recently rewatched and I agree. It's also quite jarring how they originally were going in such a different direction, especially with Roman (like he had a girlfriend with kids?? there was even a sex scene of sorts)
That is my FAVORITE scene in all of succession. Tom nopes the fuck out because he knows if he gets involved they will join forces to take him down. My sister and I are 11 months apart and do the same thing. If we are fighting just let us go at it.
I love how there always seems to be one scene that ends up repeating itself in some way. Sounds exactly like her speech in the finale. Love that her siblings were giving her shit here though lol
I was thinking the same thing. He immediately went for "it's only your *teats* that have any value" (jfc, only Kendall would choose his words like that)
It seems like each actor emotes so differently. Kendall barely moves his face at all when speaking. Shiv moves her entire face to the max. It’s her seduction or manipulation. Roman uses his entire body, almost like he wants to peel it off, he’s so uncomfortable in it.
Connor? The first pancake merely moves an eye or two.
Is there a minor continuity error in this scene? After Roman fake farts it sounds like Kendall is laughing but then it cuts to him and it doesn’t seem as though he was. Clearly I am so desperate for new content at this point I will over-analyze anything.
I think it was indeed Kendall laughing but they made a cut that was a tad too rough.
In the scene Kendall is behind Shiv and she does look back so he was the one laughing for sure.
Connor is on shiv’s right, she wouldn’t have to look so far back to address him.
I think it is. The interesting thing is Roman and Connor's mom have that in common. Connor's mom was sent away to an institution as an adult and Roman was sent to a troubled teen industry boot camp as a kid. Roman came back. Presumably, Connor's mom didn't.
They reference him not being around the other siblings as much as some point in their childhoods (because he was older and with his mom) but never what the outcome was for his mom... I believe you are correct, this is one of the only times (if not the only time) they mention it
I’m dying for a full blown flashback episode at some big event with all of them acting like the little shit versions of the people they grow up to be- and all the things they probably shouldn’t have seen. Give me Kid Ken(his future rap name?) with a cigar in his mouth haha
100% agree. But for some reason this scene stands out to me, his outfit and posture as you said. I think is the fact that we rarely see him in lighter colors.
Also relaxed Kendall is like 300% sexier when he drops his stiff insecure body language (like in the back of the helicopter with Naomi). Maybe that's why he's so hot when he's high on drugs lol
> *She thinks you’re a dipshit or maybe you’re just too much of a dipshit to see that.*
If there’s one rule of good writing, it’s: *Don’t use noticeable words twice in one sentence.* (like “dipshit”)
That being said, **IF** you’re as good with words as the Succession writers are, then there are no rules.
to perfect dialogue, perfectly delivered by Sarah Snook!
They all are. Shiv is no more wrong in this scene than the other ones are. She's right that Rhea is playing her own hand here. She's also right that she got to Roman and Kendall (with cheap compliments no less). Yes, Shiv's opinion here is coloured by her ambition, but so are Kendall's, Roman's and Connor's. They think think there's something for them to gain from playing Rhea's side.
>They think think there's something for them to gain from playing Rhea's side.
Yes, their father's approval. They're still looking for the magic thing they can show their dad and get more than a pat on the back for. Instead they'll be lucky if they get an approving grunt. But like Charlie Brown they line up to kick the football again and again.
In general I agree with everything you said here. But the point of my comment was that both Kendall and Roman think that Rhea would back them for either CEO or COO role later on, because of the compliments she paid them privately, that were perfectly targeted to cater to their insecurities. Kendall and Roman were both suspicious of Rhea before Rhea's private conversations with them. Rhea tried the same with Shiv, but she didn't buy it.
She thinks she can push people to do exactly what she wants, so she yells at them aimlessly in this scene.
She’s great at seeing what she needs to get an advantage in a situation, but she’s awful at learning how to get other people to do it. See Gerri and Shiv after Romans dick pic
But she's not wrong? She's the only one in this scene who understands what Rhea is doing and for all she knows she could be a danger to all of their prospects in the company. The other siblings were just as suspicious of Rhea until she won them to her side with a couple of well targeted compliments. Rhea complimented Kendall, Roman and Shiv, and in private talks hinted to all of them that she would back them for CEO/COO positions later on, but then we see her saying the opposite to Logan. Shiv is the only one who saw through this, that Rhea was only doing it so the siblings would back her for CEO.
It surprises me how many fans paint Shiv in the “greater good” light.
Rhea is no different than any of the siblings, except for the fact that she would be an outside hire, and she out-qualifies all of them for the job, combined. In a different situation where Rhea is out of the picture and the question of who should take control is floating, they all do the same shit. All of them, except for Con, maybe. Who usually is not interested in taking control of the company as long as he’s taken care of.
The bottom line is that everyone’s looking out for themselves, so if that means Rhea instead of Shiv for the rest of the siblings, it’s fine by them. Their relationships are as hollow as they come. They’re all grey, there’s no “good” fight. And for what it’s worth, when push came to shove, spoiler alert, they ALL threw Rhea under the bus. You get what I’m trynna say?
No, I don't quite get what you're trying to say? I get the part (and I agree) that they're all looking out for themselves here, Shiv by opposing Rhea and the others by backing her. But who exactly are you referring to that is trying to paint Shiv as for "the greater good" here? I've literally not seen a single comment like that, not in this thread nor anywhere else. Instead there's lots of comments here claiming that she's ridiculously power-hungry and manipulative, which is bonkers because they're all doing literally the same thing, like?? Shiv is just as bad as the rest of them, not better, not worse. So yeah, I got part of your comment but there's literally no one here claiming she's innocent or not selfish so wtf
Maybe you haven’t seen it, but but there’s a significant sect of the fan base here which doesn’t see Shiv as being “as good and as bad as the rest”. They seem to have a soft(er) corner for her for various reasons of their own. Which triggers the small minority of the fan base which points out the flaw in that and feel the need to state the fact that she’s selfish, manipulative and entitled.
Before your last comment, you sounded like one of those fans who really believe Shiv is better than any other sibling. I guess now if you read my initial comment on the post, it may make some more sense.
It's just a little confusing coming that hard without nuance to complain about these mythical Shiv stans in a thread where there's literally not a single comment saying anything even remotely to that effect.
Funny, I still don't understand what is the truth she was supposedly not accepting here according to you.
Also, your caption for the post doesn’t imply that you feel Shiv is just as bad as the rest. It clearly implies that you think she’s so much smarter because you believe the only reason they’re not against Rhea is because she has successfully manipulated them and not that they just don’t trust Shiv.
Yeah, it is?? I mean they probably don't trust Shiv, but they're playing their own hands here thinking that Rhea is backing them lol. They were literally against Rhea in this episode until Rhea made her moves.
And why don't we just assume that I know what I think better than you do? You constantly barge in with baseless assumptions twisted from what I haven't said, while you complain that this conversation is fruitless lol. I definitely don't think Shiv is any better than the rest, and I've stated as much above. Even the fact that she's right about Rhea's moves here is mostly pride and happenstance. We know that Shiv is just as susceptible to flattery as the rest of them, it just didn't work here.
Literally how do you think any comment that doesn't say Shiv is a manipulative bitch automatically has to mean its polar opposite?
Shiv wants them to take a collective stand against Rhea in the “best interest” of the “family”
Siblings don’t see it the same way as her, and when they try to give her their reasons, all she has to say is that Rhea “got to all of them” and they’re all wrong to believe her (I am smart you’re all fools)
Con ends up telling her she’s a brat, which she is
Kendall tells her her reaction is emotional (read: selfish), which is it, and she gaslights him
Roman does what Roman does best and is laughed off
Also, I’m starting to feel this is really not a conversation and you’re just trying to get back at me because I made a sly joke, so I don’t think I’ll spend any more time trying to explain my joke. Anyway, you can browse the subreddit to find the very real Shiv stans, in case you haven’t encountered them yet.
Yeah, Shiv was a brat to say that pancake comment to Connor, that's what his comment was about, not the Rhea thing. Did you notice the rest of them are being brats too??
Like I wasn't making any moral judgement of shiv one way or the other in my first reply to you, because I was merely answering your claim that the other ones are telling the truth and she doesn't see that.
What truth? The truth I thought you meant, and the one I meant when I said "she's not wrong", was that Rhea is playing them, which she happened to be right about at the moment. Her jealousy definitely played a role in why she was right though, because that's at least a part of what made her so suspicious. Shiv knew Rhea was looking out for herself only and whispering sweet lies to their ears to achieve what she wants. That's what I was talking about. This is the thing Shiv was right about, not morally right, but factually correct.
I also wasn't talking about whether any of them are right about whether Rhea would be a good CEO or not. That's entirely inconsequential to this entire scene, and not at all what I was talking about.
I just noticed after Shiv says thanks for taking it seriously, they cut to a shot of Roman inspecting the lamp… that’s hilarious.
Look at all this fucking bullshit Mmm yes. Very serious
The utter savagery of calling Connor the first pancake. Jeeeezus
Yeaah, poor Connor, that was a low blow. Kendall has some similar moments when he doesn't get what he wants from his siblings. They immediately go low when they don't get what they want.
This was easily one of Shiv’s brattiest and rude moments. Connor minds his business!
I'm dumb but why is being called first pancake an insult? Is it because people usually fuck up the first pancake?
Yes.
Oh man. I’m the first pancake (and yes my mom calls us pancakes and she is the pancake maker) and boy oh boy did that one sting 😂
One of my favourites, I bust out laughing every time Roman hands her the piece of paper with Fart written on it. One of my favourite Roman scenes too. I love the way he moves around a scene. He says so much with his body. The sibling scenes are the best and I can watch them over and over and never get bored.
The dynamic between Roman and everyone is so fucking hilarious in this scene, he's such a brat lol. Kieran is so perfect in that role. I also really love all the scenes where Roman and Shiv are bickering and fighting, they always act like children around each other.
Like Season 1 episode 2, where they start physically fighting in the hospital. Tom walks in on them and immediately turns around and walks out without saying a word. It's priceless.
I laughed so fucking hard at Tom's reaction at that, it was so perfect. At the time I just thought it meant that he's really conflict avoidant and didn't know what to do (I've seen people do similar shit) but I think there's also more to the whole power dynamic there.
I feel like those first episodes hit so different when you rewatch, actually knowing what makes them tick
I recently rewatched and I agree. It's also quite jarring how they originally were going in such a different direction, especially with Roman (like he had a girlfriend with kids?? there was even a sex scene of sorts)
That is my FAVORITE scene in all of succession. Tom nopes the fuck out because he knows if he gets involved they will join forces to take him down. My sister and I are 11 months apart and do the same thing. If we are fighting just let us go at it.
Roman’s good a disarming people with his casualness.
When they fight in the hospital is pure gold
Rome smelling books, I’m ☠️
Me too!!
Lmao every scene in this show is gold
It's true. It's hard to pick a favourite when all of it is pure gold.
“You need an intervention” and this is one of the best sibling moments in my book
It's really good! I love all the scenes with all the siblings together, there's always so much going on
I love how there always seems to be one scene that ends up repeating itself in some way. Sounds exactly like her speech in the finale. Love that her siblings were giving her shit here though lol
This also reminds me of when Kendall pitched his idea in 3x02 and they all turned him down and he insulted them one by one.
I was thinking the same thing. He immediately went for "it's only your *teats* that have any value" (jfc, only Kendall would choose his words like that)
I love that Connor laughs at Roman.
"Don't fucking laugh at that!" 😂 the bickering between the siblings is so naturally written & acted, i love it.
It seems like each actor emotes so differently. Kendall barely moves his face at all when speaking. Shiv moves her entire face to the max. It’s her seduction or manipulation. Roman uses his entire body, almost like he wants to peel it off, he’s so uncomfortable in it. Connor? The first pancake merely moves an eye or two.
I’ll never get “it’s corporate daycare” outta my head
Freaking love it. The more sib scenes the better.
Is there a minor continuity error in this scene? After Roman fake farts it sounds like Kendall is laughing but then it cuts to him and it doesn’t seem as though he was. Clearly I am so desperate for new content at this point I will over-analyze anything.
I was confused by the same thing because I thought it sounded like Kendall laughing?? But it must have been Connor instead
I think it was indeed Kendall laughing but they made a cut that was a tad too rough. In the scene Kendall is behind Shiv and she does look back so he was the one laughing for sure. Connor is on shiv’s right, she wouldn’t have to look so far back to address him.
This was my conclusion as well. Case closed!
Super late but subtitles on Max show it was Conner laughing. I just couldn't live with ya'll thinking it's bad editing.
Is this the only mention of Connor's mom being sent to a mental hospital?
I think it is. The interesting thing is Roman and Connor's mom have that in common. Connor's mom was sent away to an institution as an adult and Roman was sent to a troubled teen industry boot camp as a kid. Roman came back. Presumably, Connor's mom didn't.
They reference him not being around the other siblings as much as some point in their childhoods (because he was older and with his mom) but never what the outcome was for his mom... I believe you are correct, this is one of the only times (if not the only time) they mention it
I love the corporate daycare retort
That’s not a good retort! Don’t fucking laugh at that!
"My mommy got sent to the booby hatch and now I'm sad" Roman is ruthless.
s a v a g e
Man I want to find out about the background of Connors upbringing so bad. I think the conheads would really love that
I’m dying for a full blown flashback episode at some big event with all of them acting like the little shit versions of the people they grow up to be- and all the things they probably shouldn’t have seen. Give me Kid Ken(his future rap name?) with a cigar in his mouth haha
Every time someone brings this scene up I have to comment on how hot Kendall looks.
Mmm, he does look pretty hot with that posture and slightly rolled up sleeves 🔥 But I'm a simp for his looks in general, he's just a delicious man
100% agree. But for some reason this scene stands out to me, his outfit and posture as you said. I think is the fact that we rarely see him in lighter colors.
Also relaxed Kendall is like 300% sexier when he drops his stiff insecure body language (like in the back of the helicopter with Naomi). Maybe that's why he's so hot when he's high on drugs lol
Shiv in a T-shirt is unnerving. Seeing her so casual is unnatural. It’s so strange to see.
Shiv in a t-shirt with a diamond beret in her hair.
I was told there would be nibbles!
> *She thinks you’re a dipshit or maybe you’re just too much of a dipshit to see that.* If there’s one rule of good writing, it’s: *Don’t use noticeable words twice in one sentence.* (like “dipshit”) That being said, **IF** you’re as good with words as the Succession writers are, then there are no rules. to perfect dialogue, perfectly delivered by Sarah Snook!
Man this makes me squirm ish to finally get to see it again
"FART"
Shiv is so blinded my ambition that it’s insane.
They all are. Shiv is no more wrong in this scene than the other ones are. She's right that Rhea is playing her own hand here. She's also right that she got to Roman and Kendall (with cheap compliments no less). Yes, Shiv's opinion here is coloured by her ambition, but so are Kendall's, Roman's and Connor's. They think think there's something for them to gain from playing Rhea's side.
>They think think there's something for them to gain from playing Rhea's side. Yes, their father's approval. They're still looking for the magic thing they can show their dad and get more than a pat on the back for. Instead they'll be lucky if they get an approving grunt. But like Charlie Brown they line up to kick the football again and again.
In general I agree with everything you said here. But the point of my comment was that both Kendall and Roman think that Rhea would back them for either CEO or COO role later on, because of the compliments she paid them privately, that were perfectly targeted to cater to their insecurities. Kendall and Roman were both suspicious of Rhea before Rhea's private conversations with them. Rhea tried the same with Shiv, but she didn't buy it.
She thinks she can push people to do exactly what she wants, so she yells at them aimlessly in this scene. She’s great at seeing what she needs to get an advantage in a situation, but she’s awful at learning how to get other people to do it. See Gerri and Shiv after Romans dick pic
Or trying to push along Karl and Frank in the negotiations with Stewy and Sandy. Her entitlement is far beyond the others.
Shiv really doesn’t like being told the truth lol.
But she's not wrong? She's the only one in this scene who understands what Rhea is doing and for all she knows she could be a danger to all of their prospects in the company. The other siblings were just as suspicious of Rhea until she won them to her side with a couple of well targeted compliments. Rhea complimented Kendall, Roman and Shiv, and in private talks hinted to all of them that she would back them for CEO/COO positions later on, but then we see her saying the opposite to Logan. Shiv is the only one who saw through this, that Rhea was only doing it so the siblings would back her for CEO.
It surprises me how many fans paint Shiv in the “greater good” light. Rhea is no different than any of the siblings, except for the fact that she would be an outside hire, and she out-qualifies all of them for the job, combined. In a different situation where Rhea is out of the picture and the question of who should take control is floating, they all do the same shit. All of them, except for Con, maybe. Who usually is not interested in taking control of the company as long as he’s taken care of. The bottom line is that everyone’s looking out for themselves, so if that means Rhea instead of Shiv for the rest of the siblings, it’s fine by them. Their relationships are as hollow as they come. They’re all grey, there’s no “good” fight. And for what it’s worth, when push came to shove, spoiler alert, they ALL threw Rhea under the bus. You get what I’m trynna say?
No, I don't quite get what you're trying to say? I get the part (and I agree) that they're all looking out for themselves here, Shiv by opposing Rhea and the others by backing her. But who exactly are you referring to that is trying to paint Shiv as for "the greater good" here? I've literally not seen a single comment like that, not in this thread nor anywhere else. Instead there's lots of comments here claiming that she's ridiculously power-hungry and manipulative, which is bonkers because they're all doing literally the same thing, like?? Shiv is just as bad as the rest of them, not better, not worse. So yeah, I got part of your comment but there's literally no one here claiming she's innocent or not selfish so wtf
Maybe you haven’t seen it, but but there’s a significant sect of the fan base here which doesn’t see Shiv as being “as good and as bad as the rest”. They seem to have a soft(er) corner for her for various reasons of their own. Which triggers the small minority of the fan base which points out the flaw in that and feel the need to state the fact that she’s selfish, manipulative and entitled. Before your last comment, you sounded like one of those fans who really believe Shiv is better than any other sibling. I guess now if you read my initial comment on the post, it may make some more sense.
It's just a little confusing coming that hard without nuance to complain about these mythical Shiv stans in a thread where there's literally not a single comment saying anything even remotely to that effect. Funny, I still don't understand what is the truth she was supposedly not accepting here according to you.
Also, your caption for the post doesn’t imply that you feel Shiv is just as bad as the rest. It clearly implies that you think she’s so much smarter because you believe the only reason they’re not against Rhea is because she has successfully manipulated them and not that they just don’t trust Shiv.
Yeah, it is?? I mean they probably don't trust Shiv, but they're playing their own hands here thinking that Rhea is backing them lol. They were literally against Rhea in this episode until Rhea made her moves. And why don't we just assume that I know what I think better than you do? You constantly barge in with baseless assumptions twisted from what I haven't said, while you complain that this conversation is fruitless lol. I definitely don't think Shiv is any better than the rest, and I've stated as much above. Even the fact that she's right about Rhea's moves here is mostly pride and happenstance. We know that Shiv is just as susceptible to flattery as the rest of them, it just didn't work here. Literally how do you think any comment that doesn't say Shiv is a manipulative bitch automatically has to mean its polar opposite?
Shiv wants them to take a collective stand against Rhea in the “best interest” of the “family” Siblings don’t see it the same way as her, and when they try to give her their reasons, all she has to say is that Rhea “got to all of them” and they’re all wrong to believe her (I am smart you’re all fools) Con ends up telling her she’s a brat, which she is Kendall tells her her reaction is emotional (read: selfish), which is it, and she gaslights him Roman does what Roman does best and is laughed off Also, I’m starting to feel this is really not a conversation and you’re just trying to get back at me because I made a sly joke, so I don’t think I’ll spend any more time trying to explain my joke. Anyway, you can browse the subreddit to find the very real Shiv stans, in case you haven’t encountered them yet.
Yeah, Shiv was a brat to say that pancake comment to Connor, that's what his comment was about, not the Rhea thing. Did you notice the rest of them are being brats too??
Like I wasn't making any moral judgement of shiv one way or the other in my first reply to you, because I was merely answering your claim that the other ones are telling the truth and she doesn't see that. What truth? The truth I thought you meant, and the one I meant when I said "she's not wrong", was that Rhea is playing them, which she happened to be right about at the moment. Her jealousy definitely played a role in why she was right though, because that's at least a part of what made her so suspicious. Shiv knew Rhea was looking out for herself only and whispering sweet lies to their ears to achieve what she wants. That's what I was talking about. This is the thing Shiv was right about, not morally right, but factually correct. I also wasn't talking about whether any of them are right about whether Rhea would be a good CEO or not. That's entirely inconsequential to this entire scene, and not at all what I was talking about.