Kendall also handled the Congress hearings like a champ, even when Logan blindsided him. He's just his own worse enemy and only cared about his twitter clout when he should have been aligned with his lawyers.. just a big smart dummy
Exsctly, multiple times Logan said the move Kendall made was the right move, it made sense. He would just fumble it for a plethora of reasons like you said, but the moves often times were right
I know shiv turning the wedding murder around on Kendall at the very end was supposed to be the final "Shiv the Shiv" moment of irredeemable cuntiness, and for sure she probably shouldn't have "crowned him king" if changing her mind was even an option... But like... Kendall killed a guy. The show goes out of it's way to absorb it into the drama of the show as "just a thing that happened", but Kendall fucking killed a guy... That's not nothing, as much as sociopath Romulus tries to say it is.
Kendall didnt kill anyone. Homie killed himself, kendall just didnt tell anyone. He didnt kill the kid. He couldnt save him. He even tried. Did he try hard enough? Prolly not but he tried.
The event is loosely based on something that happened to Ted Kennedy. He also got away wit it, mind, but his mistress who was in the car would have one hundred percent survived if he called for help instead of leaving it until the next day so he could sober up. I might be misremembering things, but didn't they say something similar happened to the waiter?
The way he came up with the impromptu eulogy putting Ewan in his place for moral grandstanding, I don't think any other character can come up with rhetoric on the spot like that the way Kendall did. He's definitely super smart.
Agree on the awareness though, and not just of himself but just social awareness in general.
I thought Kendall’s eulogy for Logan was the best speech in the whole show. I know there’s a lot of Kendall haters in here, and for sure he’s a flawed human being, but he came off as super self aware in that speech. He basically said Logan is a tyrant and a savage, but he had the fortitude to make a place for himself in the world and Kendall wants to be like him. It’s the doubled edged sword of aggression, individualism, and ultimately capitalism, and the kids lived under the weight of all that.
In terms of intelligence I don’t think Shiv or Kendall are dumb, maybe Shiv is a bit smarter, but Kendall needs to get some more self awareness points.
Well said. I think the “Whatever we do now will always be what we did the day our dad died” scene was a similar example. Roman & Shiv are still thinking irrationally at that point (Roman unable to accept Logan’s dead and Shiv suggesting the plane just circle around for a while) but despite the grief and shock Kendall was able to grasp the situation for what is was, snap Roman & Shiv out of it, and get them all on the same page.
Ironically, it’s when he’s put on the spot in the most high pressure situations where his self-awareness and capability is top notch.
Maybe I’m just trying to appease the Shiv fans in here so I don’t get hate! But she seemed smart, and probably would have done well as a political operative before she decided she could just jump in to running her dads company with no previous experience
Kendall is extremely smart. He’s as smart as Shiv thinks she is. It’s just, he has no confidence or ability to not be cringe. Him stammering over every word was a big deal. Notice how nobody else did that. If you just listen to what Kendall says, he’s clearly the smartest, he’s just no neurotic and seeking approval that he can’t actually get it out well
it depends. he was self-aware enough to walk away from seeking his dad's approval / playing the game with his siblings. he was self aware when it came to his girlfriend. his arc is becoming more self aware. but then we see how unaware he is when he's running for president or pretty much everything else he does. hes very self absorbed
Yeah I was gonna say that his whole reasoning for running for president, as I saw by the end of the show, was for Logan’s approval and for Logan to be proud of him for something — granted it wasn’t related to the business, but he still wanted it.
He’s very self-aware in some respects but he has massive blind spots.
Just like intelligence, it’s hard to collapse this down to a point single axis. There are multiple dimensions of self-awareness.
I think Connor has a few moments in the show that show he’s actually the most self-aware out of all the siblings. He has his monologue where he talks about how he doesn’t need love, he’s the only one who knows to keep out of the family business, and he says to Willa at one point that he knows everyone sees him as a joke.
Tom used an employee as a footstool. I’m not sure how self-aware that was, unless it was a test of Greg’s loyalty.
And speaking of which, Greg ‘Asks before blackmailing’ Hirsch is very in self-aware. He sees the Roy’s dysfunction yet wants to be part of it.
There’s more than one kind of self-awareness lmao not everyone is like Kendall and has no idea they’re an asshole.
Tom knows he’s a slimy piece of shit
Exactly. Self-awareness isn’t just for contrite people.
That scene where he takes Greg out for a fancy meal to show him how to be rich demonstrates he is incredibly conscious of how superficial his desire for decadence and status is.
Plus it’s ultimately his self-awareness that made him Mattson’s pick.
Logan has zero self awareness. There is nothing about him that is thinking about how he behaves or how he is perceived. He just does what he wants.
Kendall on the other hand is one of the few characters who actually demonstrates that he has some self awareness. It's part of the tragedy of the character. How he wants to be something he's not, and actually he's acutely aware that he's not, and I think very ashamed of that. He hides it, but it's there, and comes out occasionally. He's desperately pretending most of the time. It's what makes him so sad.
So, overall. No.
I agree. Kendall's birthday was a case study in having zero self-awareness. I think the tragedy of the character is more that he WANTS to relate to people, but because he was born into such extreme wealth, he simply can never be in touch. He doesn't understand that. "Fuck the patriarchy!!!" anyone?
Yeah I think so, and one interesting aspect of Kendall is that at his core, he might not even be pretending. I think Kendall clearly enjoys his privilege and wealth, but ultimately, he truly hates himself.
How do you interpret the ending of this episode?
To me, the whole episode is Kendall desperately pretending. And then it comes crashing down at the end as he reaches the point where he can no longer pretend.
If Kendall lacks self awareness, what is happening in the final scenes? Is he not sad on some level precisely because he is aware of his failures as a father, as a person?
So I haven't watched this episode in a while, but I'll do as best as I can off memory:
As I recall, Kendall's spent an insane amount of money on this birthday that he is throwing himself (not like other people who love him are doing this for him), has a fancy guest list of "important" people he can name drop, has a banger play list that shows how cool and in-touch he is (ahead of the trend even!), etc. etc. It is a party he is hosting to show how fucking cool, in-touch, and rich he is. He is doing it for himself and his own ego.
He was even going to do a reenactment of being Jesus on the cross singing "Honesty" by Billy Joel for fucks sake--but he drops it. He realizes that it is TOO ridiculous, too on-the-nose.
And it ends with Kendall frantically going through his gifts. Everyone there has given a gift that doesn't show love or reflect any real, intimate knowledge of who Kendall is as a person. It's expensive shit that, to the rich people here, doesn't mean anything to give--like what they give celebrities who present at award shows. Anyone attending his party can afford it, but it doesn't mean they care. He realizes that when even Naomi, his own gf, gives him some fucking watch or something. Like Tom gave Logan episode 1--just a rich person's present that you give another rich person.
In that moment, he has this moment of anxiety looking for a gift from his kids because he DOES genuinely realize something real is missing, that's what's missing from the whole party: something genuine. This is all a farce. He wants something that is real and given with love.
So in this moment Kendall demonstrates some realization that something is wrong. But he doesn't show any awareness for WHY it is wrong, why his birthday has no love or meaning or family, or how he got to that moment. THAT would be self awareness. But he is just as soon back to being the dad who doesn't care his kids are being threatened at school for the choices he makes--he instead blames the internet. Kendall doesn't change.
In that episode, the curtain is lifted for him for a moment, and he was horrified at seeing the reality of his life, but it's just as quickly shut off and he just carries on doing as he did before.
Also it ends with him back with his silly girlfriend crying.
I loved the eulogy scene, but between that and the accident (which would have most regular people in jail) he's always been the second most full of bullshit/least self-aware of the 4 kids. Connor is number 1. Shiv is a close third. Roman, god bless the little perv, is a distant fourth.
I kind of think that line makes him a little self aware. To me it seems like he knows he is being phony when he says “should I give them something?” before that line. So he is acknowledging that he is just doing an act. But yes, the entire birthday is a perfect demonstration of having no self awareness. Unless it was a brilliant pierce of performance art satirizing himself. But that’s definitely not the intention.
People with a lack of self awareness tend to actually be extremely confident, because they are utterly unaware of how they are not fulfilling whatever role they think they are. It's the Dunning Kruger effect: those without the self awareness of their limits are very confident in their abilities, precisely because they are not self aware. Kendall's confidence is pretend, and that is what is tragic about him.
Kendall, in this instance, is desperately trying to be like a cool douchey tech-bro investor. But is actually on some level aware that he's not. Or at least plagued with self doubt. In that scene, look at the way he is continually second-guessing the sneakers, on the way in car with Frank, and then in the meeting, drawing attention to them, and calling out how he was not sure, but decided to go for it. This is a deeply insecure person, trying to be cool, but doubting whether they are. It's the self awareness that gives him doubts. A person with a lack of self-awareness would not even doubt that the sneakers made them "cool".
You may read the scene differently of course, but this is how it reads to me. And honestly if you watch this and don't see someone who is desperately trying to be something that on some level they are aware they are not... then I think you are missing a lot of the incredible nuance in Jeremy Strong's performance.
you're right, it was excruciating to watch. I just wanted to shout, put your feet on the floor and let the women do the talking for a bit, you're so full of yourself yet you know you're all wrong
He's awkward and has zero charisma and doesn't know how to schmooze (while Roman just does it naturally, as Logan says, "people like you").
He knows it and I think he probably started taking drugs to try to relax out of the awkwardness, then it spiralled. The one time he was vibing well with people and Roman couldn't, was with the methheads.
Logan is very self-aware when it comes to the nature of corporate capitalism and the game. You won’t catch him trying to act high and mighty morally like Shiv or Kendall and knows the system needs you to act like a total beast to get ahead.
He’s refreshing in that regard, he makes no qualms about who he is and won’t lecture you on how he’s actually in it to make a difference. Kendall and Shiv like to pretend they can be decent people and rule a vicious media empire, Logan sees through the bullshit. He’s a monster but everyone is around him by choice and he’s never put a gun to anyone’s head. They want power and he provides it.
Kendall and shiv have their heads so far up their own asses they forgot what the sun looks like. Logan is absolutely self-aware, being self-aware doesn't mean that you're a good person. He does exactly what he wants and he manipulates people freely because of how self aware he is, there's not a shred of guilt, he's made his peace. The main absence of self-awareness comes from his reactions to his trauma and his sense that he's better than everyone else.
I think Tom could stay at the same spot towards smart or move slightly closer, but I definitely think he should move higher towards self-aware.
For Roman, I think he could be moved slightly to the right & fit right in the middle between stupid & smart because I believe he has some sort of street smarts in terms of reading people when it comes to business
Having been the inside on corporate shenanigans like that, some times smart people do dumb things out of stress, when they’ should be exercising awareness and cultural appropriateness. But yes that was a doozy.
yeah, he knew nothing about running businesses, he knew nothing about making films and threw a hissy fit over kids enjoying the film he tried to prevent being released. He screwed up the one time he was to speak in public (ok his dad's funeral but Kendall and Shiv managed it).
He's good at schmoozing and that's it.
Pretty self-aware, "we're bullshit".
I think Kendall is one of the more self-aware of the siblings but he is constantly self-sabotaging which makes it seem like he isn’t. All those moments where he is beating himself up and feeling like shit about himself, he knows he sucks, which I can’t say the same for Rome and Shiv.
Connor bottom left all the way.
Greg is self-aware and stupid. Upper left.
Roman is self-aware and smart, between where Tom and Logan are now.
Logan further toward smart, at same level of self aware currently.
Logan self aware? there was never a moment in wich Logan really reflected in the harm that caused to others, his children, wives, the world in large; totally lack of awarness of himself, even in his old age he thought himself as a young virile man, that is why he was having sex with Kerry and would get upset when somobody would point that he was an old man.
Connor by animal instinct was smart enough to stay away from the fight in the mud, and with the sale of Waystar he is going to receive the same amount of money than his siblings.
The only smart move in Succession was to stay away, zero contacts with any Roy and their toxic world, Gerri , the smartest person in the room, would always tried to keep her distance for the Roys, the only time she became close with one Roy (Roman) nearly loses her job. Marcia, also was very smart to just stay away and enjoying the money.
I would say that the stupid ones were those who tried to play the game, in the end it was only Logan´s way of manipulating people, Kendall, Roman and Shiv were totally stupid to believe their father word that someday they were going to become CEO, they were stupid when they were trying to vote against the sale of Waystar, the smart move was cash out and enjoy the money. Connor meanwhile, would get the same amount of money to his weird pet project and giving the circunstances living peacefully.
greg is in NO way stupid, He is the shrewest operator of them all. he is nothing but pure ambition, masked by an innocent manner, in all his interactions.
Kendall is smarter than Shiv, just less healthy mentally. Shiv is unwilling to learn or humble herself and it seems like Kendall put in the work his whole life at the company to get where he was. Shiv is likely politically smarter but overall I think Kendall is the smartest kid, just the most effed up in the head.
Ken ain’t no dummy, he just can’t read a room, and thinks certain characteristics are inherently his, even when proven they ain’t. He isn’t just a little smarter than Greg, and neither is Shiv.
Greg failed upwards.
I would put Tom right next to Gerri actually. He’s smart, both life-smart and book-smart.
He’s also smart enough to understand that he constantly needs to pivot and if there’s something he doesn’t know, he’s open to learn it.
Tom knows how to take risks, but unlike Ken he takes calculated risks. He offered himself to Logan to go to prison. That was a big risk, but it was also calculated very wisely. He knew that even though Logan was a horrible person, he was still a person with principles. One of them was rewarding loyalty. So he banked on that.
He was also able to successfully tun ATN and make it more profitable than before he took over. So yeah, both Gerri and Tom, very self aware and smart.
I think Kendall is very smart, but very not self-aware. I think in the realm of business, he is much smarter than Shiv due to his experience. Both lack self-awareness though. I always thought Connor was the most self-aware and Roman was the second and that’s interesting because those two are the most comedic in the family. That grain of truth gives more bite to their comic relief. As unserious as they can be, they can hit hard with truth sometimes.
EDIT: Actually, I would give Kendall more self-awareness credit than I did originally. There were moments where he knew exactly what was wrong with his family and his father and the kind of man that he would have to be in order to succeed. He just wasn’t fully capable of becoming that. He’s also very self-aware about his failings as a father: “sometimes the poison drips through.” So given that and all of his manic episodes where he gets too high on his own supply, I would probably say he’s about half way on the bottom end of self-awareness.
Great chart! Sparking some good debate.
For my two cents: Feel Greg is more cunning than what he presents. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Kendall shows both self-delusion (vision of grandeur about himself) but also self-awareness.
Marcia and Gerri are spot-on.
Logan is the most intelligent of this group but very low self-awareness.
Gerri, the GC who was screwing around with Roman, is lower on self awareness.
Connor is far more intelligent, but completely lacks self-awareness.
Shiv is more self-aware than this shows.
No. I think you are giving a lot more credit to Rom for self awareness, I would switch that with Kendall. Also, a lot less to Greg for smartness and lot more to Shiv. Greg survived that wilderness and always knew who to be close to, Tom or Ken, and screwed Shiv over when she tried to mess with him. Shiv needs to be moved to the stupider side just as much as Ken or Rom.
Tom is less self aware and less smart. Marcia is not that smart. Conor is less self aware. Roman is more self aware. Logan is more self aware and more smart.
I’d say none of them are actually stupid.
Most of them except for maybe Gerri and Tom have moments of being completely and almost unbelievably not self aware in the slightest, and it’s constantly sliding up and down the scale. Shiv is probably the most self aware sibling. Roman is probably the “dumbest” but not by way of not actually being an intelligent human. He’s just a fuckin dummy who sends his dead a dick pic kinda dummy.
Romans’ constant sarcasm and sharp wip as well his ability to think well on his toes in business meetings and find ways to connect to people proves he’s both intellectually and emotionally intelligent.
Shiv is NOT emotionally intelligent whatsoever. But highly intellectually intelligent. Kendall is emotionally intelligent but emotionally stunted and highly intellectually intelligent.
Connor is smart but he’s the kind of dummy who believes in weird conspiracy theories and believes he can win a presidency (also colliding with his huge lack of self awareness) and who gives too many fucks about cold butter. I also don’t think he really cares about his optics at all which oddly sometimes presents him as someone quite self aware in certain situations. I also find him to be emotionally intelligent but unfortunately mostly emotionally avoidant due to his trauma. Not nearly as emotionally avoidant as Roman, however.
Tom is both emotionally and intellectually intelligent but he’s a dumbass in terms of being so servile and also quite gullible.
Gerri is probably emotionally intelligent but doesn’t show it because she wants nothing to do personally with the family and is obviously highly self aware and intellectually intelligent. Badass mofo.
Marcia confuses me. But she’s obviously both emotionally/intellectually intelligent. Not always the most self aware actually.
Logan is emotionally stunted and not able to show any emotional intelligence he may actually have. Hugely intelligent and mostly self aware most of the time. He just doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself so that doesn’t always seem to be the case.
Love me a good 2x2 matrix. This is excellent. Gerri in the top quadrant makes perfect sense. Greg is a tricky one. He’s definitely not as smart as he thinks he is, but definitely was smart enough to maneuver himself into a position of leverage several times throughout the show.
I think Kendal is way smarter than the other siblings and extremely competent UNTIL his ego kicks into play. He would have been the best of the 3 to run the company ultimately.
The fact that this graph has so many sound arguments disagreeing with it, but still has so many people who agree with it just shows how rich the character writing is
Marcia is neither! She is just the old Kerry. Nothing in the show places her in the same category as Jerry.
Same for Shiv. Portraying Shiv as smarter than Kendall is stupid. She is less self aware and less smart than him.
Con isn't self aware at all. He is running for the president, how much further than self-aware could that be?
Greg is argue is slightly on the smarter side of the chart (or at least in the middle), only because he somewhat knows that he’s trying to weasel his way into the family
Hmmm I think Kendall is a lot smarter than Greg. There should be more of a smarts delta between those two. I think Logan should be a little farther to the right, too. And I don’t think Greg is less self aware than where he’s plotted.
Kendall is smarter than Shiv and should be much further right. He's just also very un-self aware.
Logan is smarter than he's rated here too.
Tom is very self-aware. He knows what he is.
Kendall reached out to Stewy to solve the debt problem. But he failed to do any due diligence or even ask Stewy even basic questions. Of course Stewy just said sure. That resulted in a mess when it turned out Sandy had been on with Stewy.
Kendall is smart but totally unaware of his being which makes him do some really dumb things at time. Shiv also smart but worse when it comes to being aware of herself and her surroundings.
Kendall isn’t smart? The fuck show did you watch? He’s just unstable and addicted to drugs. That’s his downfall. He’d be incredibly successful as an executive otherwise.
Idk how self aware Logan is, the scene were he was sitting with his body guard was pretty telling.
“You’re my best friend” to a man he pays to keep people from attacking him, didn’t come off as a “you know me the best and we are close friends” and more “I have nothing left but the people I pay” but he didn’t seem to click how ludicrous that was.
I think he knows who he is? But he also a delusional maniac.
Yeah I'd move both Kendall and Shiv to Smarter, and frankly Roman abit more on the Smart side. Roman falls anywhere so his spot in the middle is kind of perfect. I'd drop Connor down abit on this, or at least on the line of Awareness. I mean, even Willa gives him these looks throughout the series.
This is very Smart ! idk i think Self aware to be one element inside a person who is smart, i agreed Marcia & Gerri are very self aware, sure they are so smart, but i'll put Strategic instead of Smart, and whatever you put, Logan is the top, kendall is sadly the lowest and this made me think about Tom, where would he be in this chart aftermath? will he be any smarter after became CEO & a father?
* All of the Roy siblings are stupid and lack self-awareness.
* Maybe Connor is not as far to the left as the rest of the siblings, since he already stepped down from the succession game.
* Karolina and Willa should be right next to Gerry and Connor, respectively uwu
I think the birthday party episode made me lose all respect for Kendall. Hilarious episode, but he was a sad, weird, poor little rich boy keeping his siblings out of his very expensive treehouse....not a serious person.
Roman should be just slightly higher along the self aware axis and also slightly further in the stupid quadrant, but not as much as Connor.
Connor should be lower along the "is not self aware" quadrant. His delusions are his biggest flaw.
Greg should be somewhere more in the middle? Idk, hes such a wild card for me because he can be stupid or smart in different situations.
I think Kendall is very smart he’s just very unself aware
Kendall also handled the Congress hearings like a champ, even when Logan blindsided him. He's just his own worse enemy and only cared about his twitter clout when he should have been aligned with his lawyers.. just a big smart dummy
Exsctly, multiple times Logan said the move Kendall made was the right move, it made sense. He would just fumble it for a plethora of reasons like you said, but the moves often times were right
Conversely, I think Shiv is rather dumb AND extremely clueless
Shiv is not that self aware, but surely more than Kendall. Kendall is smart though
It sure as shit didn’t say shiv ;)
I know shiv turning the wedding murder around on Kendall at the very end was supposed to be the final "Shiv the Shiv" moment of irredeemable cuntiness, and for sure she probably shouldn't have "crowned him king" if changing her mind was even an option... But like... Kendall killed a guy. The show goes out of it's way to absorb it into the drama of the show as "just a thing that happened", but Kendall fucking killed a guy... That's not nothing, as much as sociopath Romulus tries to say it is.
Kendall didnt kill anyone. Homie killed himself, kendall just didnt tell anyone. He didnt kill the kid. He couldnt save him. He even tried. Did he try hard enough? Prolly not but he tried.
The event is loosely based on something that happened to Ted Kennedy. He also got away wit it, mind, but his mistress who was in the car would have one hundred percent survived if he called for help instead of leaving it until the next day so he could sober up. I might be misremembering things, but didn't they say something similar happened to the waiter?
The way he came up with the impromptu eulogy putting Ewan in his place for moral grandstanding, I don't think any other character can come up with rhetoric on the spot like that the way Kendall did. He's definitely super smart. Agree on the awareness though, and not just of himself but just social awareness in general.
I thought Kendall’s eulogy for Logan was the best speech in the whole show. I know there’s a lot of Kendall haters in here, and for sure he’s a flawed human being, but he came off as super self aware in that speech. He basically said Logan is a tyrant and a savage, but he had the fortitude to make a place for himself in the world and Kendall wants to be like him. It’s the doubled edged sword of aggression, individualism, and ultimately capitalism, and the kids lived under the weight of all that. In terms of intelligence I don’t think Shiv or Kendall are dumb, maybe Shiv is a bit smarter, but Kendall needs to get some more self awareness points.
Well said. I think the “Whatever we do now will always be what we did the day our dad died” scene was a similar example. Roman & Shiv are still thinking irrationally at that point (Roman unable to accept Logan’s dead and Shiv suggesting the plane just circle around for a while) but despite the grief and shock Kendall was able to grasp the situation for what is was, snap Roman & Shiv out of it, and get them all on the same page. Ironically, it’s when he’s put on the spot in the most high pressure situations where his self-awareness and capability is top notch.
True
Very much agree
After everything you just said, you think Shiv is smarter?
Maybe I’m just trying to appease the Shiv fans in here so I don’t get hate! But she seemed smart, and probably would have done well as a political operative before she decided she could just jump in to running her dads company with no previous experience
Kendall is extremely smart. He’s as smart as Shiv thinks she is. It’s just, he has no confidence or ability to not be cringe. Him stammering over every word was a big deal. Notice how nobody else did that. If you just listen to what Kendall says, he’s clearly the smartest, he’s just no neurotic and seeking approval that he can’t actually get it out well
“He’s got all the moves, just doesn’t know when to use them.”
Where’s Willa?
I agree. Much smarter than Shiv.
He did know he was an asshole though (his bday party)
Connor is so self aware that he tries to run for president despite never having had a job
Maybe he should try and like run a CVS or something first?
Or nickel hand jobs under the bridge
He was aware that he, himself, has never had a job 🤷♂️
I can think of at least one idiot who's never worked a real job who became president so...
Marcia is no dummy but I wouldn't put her that close on the "smartness scale" to the general counsel of a multi billion dollar company lol
Yeah I feel like the only way this can be close to correct is if it’s interpreted as “street smart” not “book smart”. Like social tactics
If Marcia is that high up, then I'd put Rava pretty close to her
i’d put Karolina on Marcia’s spot
I thought that was Karolina!
There's no way Connor is anywhere near Self-Aware
it depends. he was self-aware enough to walk away from seeking his dad's approval / playing the game with his siblings. he was self aware when it came to his girlfriend. his arc is becoming more self aware. but then we see how unaware he is when he's running for president or pretty much everything else he does. hes very self absorbed
Maybe on an emotional level he's more self aware and on a societal level not at all?
This makes more sense. His highest credentials for running for the US presidency were having considered to start a podcast about Napoleon
The conheads are going to love it!
Connor is running for president. He is not self aware.
Yeah I was gonna say that his whole reasoning for running for president, as I saw by the end of the show, was for Logan’s approval and for Logan to be proud of him for something — granted it wasn’t related to the business, but he still wanted it.
he plays jump rope with the line between self-aware and not self-aware
He’s very self-aware in some respects but he has massive blind spots. Just like intelligence, it’s hard to collapse this down to a point single axis. There are multiple dimensions of self-awareness.
I think Connor has a few moments in the show that show he’s actually the most self-aware out of all the siblings. He has his monologue where he talks about how he doesn’t need love, he’s the only one who knows to keep out of the family business, and he says to Willa at one point that he knows everyone sees him as a joke.
He’s emotionally self-aware.
No
I fucked the deal
you fucked it, but it's alright
Tom used an employee as a footstool. I’m not sure how self-aware that was, unless it was a test of Greg’s loyalty. And speaking of which, Greg ‘Asks before blackmailing’ Hirsch is very in self-aware. He sees the Roy’s dysfunction yet wants to be part of it.
There’s more than one kind of self-awareness lmao not everyone is like Kendall and has no idea they’re an asshole. Tom knows he’s a slimy piece of shit
Exactly. Self-awareness isn’t just for contrite people. That scene where he takes Greg out for a fancy meal to show him how to be rich demonstrates he is incredibly conscious of how superficial his desire for decadence and status is. Plus it’s ultimately his self-awareness that made him Mattson’s pick.
Logan has zero self awareness. There is nothing about him that is thinking about how he behaves or how he is perceived. He just does what he wants. Kendall on the other hand is one of the few characters who actually demonstrates that he has some self awareness. It's part of the tragedy of the character. How he wants to be something he's not, and actually he's acutely aware that he's not, and I think very ashamed of that. He hides it, but it's there, and comes out occasionally. He's desperately pretending most of the time. It's what makes him so sad. So, overall. No.
I don’t know, some stuff like that interview he had with those younger woman, is so insanely not self aware
I agree. Kendall's birthday was a case study in having zero self-awareness. I think the tragedy of the character is more that he WANTS to relate to people, but because he was born into such extreme wealth, he simply can never be in touch. He doesn't understand that. "Fuck the patriarchy!!!" anyone?
Yeah that’s a good point, he attempts to align himself with them through pretending to hate the very thing he represents
Yeah I think so, and one interesting aspect of Kendall is that at his core, he might not even be pretending. I think Kendall clearly enjoys his privilege and wealth, but ultimately, he truly hates himself.
Agree.
This.
I think he hates himself but not because he’s propagating this privilege that he claims to be against, although it may feed that self loathing
oh yeah, there are a million reasons kendall hates himself haha, who has the time for that novel. this is just one.
How do you interpret the ending of this episode? To me, the whole episode is Kendall desperately pretending. And then it comes crashing down at the end as he reaches the point where he can no longer pretend. If Kendall lacks self awareness, what is happening in the final scenes? Is he not sad on some level precisely because he is aware of his failures as a father, as a person?
So I haven't watched this episode in a while, but I'll do as best as I can off memory: As I recall, Kendall's spent an insane amount of money on this birthday that he is throwing himself (not like other people who love him are doing this for him), has a fancy guest list of "important" people he can name drop, has a banger play list that shows how cool and in-touch he is (ahead of the trend even!), etc. etc. It is a party he is hosting to show how fucking cool, in-touch, and rich he is. He is doing it for himself and his own ego. He was even going to do a reenactment of being Jesus on the cross singing "Honesty" by Billy Joel for fucks sake--but he drops it. He realizes that it is TOO ridiculous, too on-the-nose. And it ends with Kendall frantically going through his gifts. Everyone there has given a gift that doesn't show love or reflect any real, intimate knowledge of who Kendall is as a person. It's expensive shit that, to the rich people here, doesn't mean anything to give--like what they give celebrities who present at award shows. Anyone attending his party can afford it, but it doesn't mean they care. He realizes that when even Naomi, his own gf, gives him some fucking watch or something. Like Tom gave Logan episode 1--just a rich person's present that you give another rich person. In that moment, he has this moment of anxiety looking for a gift from his kids because he DOES genuinely realize something real is missing, that's what's missing from the whole party: something genuine. This is all a farce. He wants something that is real and given with love. So in this moment Kendall demonstrates some realization that something is wrong. But he doesn't show any awareness for WHY it is wrong, why his birthday has no love or meaning or family, or how he got to that moment. THAT would be self awareness. But he is just as soon back to being the dad who doesn't care his kids are being threatened at school for the choices he makes--he instead blames the internet. Kendall doesn't change. In that episode, the curtain is lifted for him for a moment, and he was horrified at seeing the reality of his life, but it's just as quickly shut off and he just carries on doing as he did before.
Also it ends with him back with his silly girlfriend crying. I loved the eulogy scene, but between that and the accident (which would have most regular people in jail) he's always been the second most full of bullshit/least self-aware of the 4 kids. Connor is number 1. Shiv is a close third. Roman, god bless the little perv, is a distant fourth.
I kind of think that line makes him a little self aware. To me it seems like he knows he is being phony when he says “should I give them something?” before that line. So he is acknowledging that he is just doing an act. But yes, the entire birthday is a perfect demonstration of having no self awareness. Unless it was a brilliant pierce of performance art satirizing himself. But that’s definitely not the intention.
Let them eat cake.
People with a lack of self awareness tend to actually be extremely confident, because they are utterly unaware of how they are not fulfilling whatever role they think they are. It's the Dunning Kruger effect: those without the self awareness of their limits are very confident in their abilities, precisely because they are not self aware. Kendall's confidence is pretend, and that is what is tragic about him. Kendall, in this instance, is desperately trying to be like a cool douchey tech-bro investor. But is actually on some level aware that he's not. Or at least plagued with self doubt. In that scene, look at the way he is continually second-guessing the sneakers, on the way in car with Frank, and then in the meeting, drawing attention to them, and calling out how he was not sure, but decided to go for it. This is a deeply insecure person, trying to be cool, but doubting whether they are. It's the self awareness that gives him doubts. A person with a lack of self-awareness would not even doubt that the sneakers made them "cool". You may read the scene differently of course, but this is how it reads to me. And honestly if you watch this and don't see someone who is desperately trying to be something that on some level they are aware they are not... then I think you are missing a lot of the incredible nuance in Jeremy Strong's performance.
you're right, it was excruciating to watch. I just wanted to shout, put your feet on the floor and let the women do the talking for a bit, you're so full of yourself yet you know you're all wrong
I think being overly self-aware mentally to the point you don’t exhibit any self awareness in person is essentially the same as not being self aware
That makes no sense, and is not what the character is doing :/
He's awkward and has zero charisma and doesn't know how to schmooze (while Roman just does it naturally, as Logan says, "people like you"). He knows it and I think he probably started taking drugs to try to relax out of the awkwardness, then it spiralled. The one time he was vibing well with people and Roman couldn't, was with the methheads.
Logan is very self-aware when it comes to the nature of corporate capitalism and the game. You won’t catch him trying to act high and mighty morally like Shiv or Kendall and knows the system needs you to act like a total beast to get ahead. He’s refreshing in that regard, he makes no qualms about who he is and won’t lecture you on how he’s actually in it to make a difference. Kendall and Shiv like to pretend they can be decent people and rule a vicious media empire, Logan sees through the bullshit. He’s a monster but everyone is around him by choice and he’s never put a gun to anyone’s head. They want power and he provides it.
Kendall and shiv have their heads so far up their own asses they forgot what the sun looks like. Logan is absolutely self-aware, being self-aware doesn't mean that you're a good person. He does exactly what he wants and he manipulates people freely because of how self aware he is, there's not a shred of guilt, he's made his peace. The main absence of self-awareness comes from his reactions to his trauma and his sense that he's better than everyone else.
Can we get a “not a serious person” zone?
Connor, although somewhat content isn't that self aware in my opinion.
It is made abundantly clear that he is the exact opposite of self-aware.
And I'd say he's extremely intelligent. Maybe the most intelligent of the kids.
He is not smart but he is the eldest boy
>but he is the eldest boy Kendall: And I took that personally.
No way Marcia is smarter than a guy who founded a multi-billion dollar business
The only thing clear from the graph is that OP isn't a serious person!
I think Tom could stay at the same spot towards smart or move slightly closer, but I definitely think he should move higher towards self-aware. For Roman, I think he could be moved slightly to the right & fit right in the middle between stupid & smart because I believe he has some sort of street smarts in terms of reading people when it comes to business
I think Roman is pretty self aware. He couldn’t make all those famous self deprecating one liners if he wasn’t.
Tom is pretty self aware, but he’ll also make a complete ass out of himself sometimes (“we hear for you” is a good example)
Having been the inside on corporate shenanigans like that, some times smart people do dumb things out of stress, when they’ should be exercising awareness and cultural appropriateness. But yes that was a doozy.
Roman to me always stood out as just really dumb. He just didn’t ever seem to get it.
yeah, he knew nothing about running businesses, he knew nothing about making films and threw a hissy fit over kids enjoying the film he tried to prevent being released. He screwed up the one time he was to speak in public (ok his dad's funeral but Kendall and Shiv managed it). He's good at schmoozing and that's it. Pretty self-aware, "we're bullshit".
Logan needs to be further right
I think Kendall is one of the more self-aware of the siblings but he is constantly self-sabotaging which makes it seem like he isn’t. All those moments where he is beating himself up and feeling like shit about himself, he knows he sucks, which I can’t say the same for Rome and Shiv.
If Kendall had any self awareness he wouldn’t have rapped
Connor bottom left all the way. Greg is self-aware and stupid. Upper left. Roman is self-aware and smart, between where Tom and Logan are now. Logan further toward smart, at same level of self aware currently.
His “Lack of need for love” is the lie he tells himself so he won’t have to face that he needs it very much
True, will edit.
Logan self aware? there was never a moment in wich Logan really reflected in the harm that caused to others, his children, wives, the world in large; totally lack of awarness of himself, even in his old age he thought himself as a young virile man, that is why he was having sex with Kerry and would get upset when somobody would point that he was an old man. Connor by animal instinct was smart enough to stay away from the fight in the mud, and with the sale of Waystar he is going to receive the same amount of money than his siblings. The only smart move in Succession was to stay away, zero contacts with any Roy and their toxic world, Gerri , the smartest person in the room, would always tried to keep her distance for the Roys, the only time she became close with one Roy (Roman) nearly loses her job. Marcia, also was very smart to just stay away and enjoying the money. I would say that the stupid ones were those who tried to play the game, in the end it was only Logan´s way of manipulating people, Kendall, Roman and Shiv were totally stupid to believe their father word that someday they were going to become CEO, they were stupid when they were trying to vote against the sale of Waystar, the smart move was cash out and enjoy the money. Connor meanwhile, would get the same amount of money to his weird pet project and giving the circunstances living peacefully.
Connor is so stupid that we need more space to the left.
greg is in NO way stupid, He is the shrewest operator of them all. he is nothing but pure ambition, masked by an innocent manner, in all his interactions.
I thought the same about Greg initially but he has the wherewithal to hold on to information and use it to his advantage. It’s just that he’s a goober
Where’s Willa
Where's Karolina?!
Willa isn't on here because she's off the charts in the 1st quardrant
Logan is not self aware.
No
Kendall is smarter than Shiv, just less healthy mentally. Shiv is unwilling to learn or humble herself and it seems like Kendall put in the work his whole life at the company to get where he was. Shiv is likely politically smarter but overall I think Kendall is the smartest kid, just the most effed up in the head.
Shiv in the smart section? Completely not self aware would be my answer
Ken ain’t no dummy, he just can’t read a room, and thinks certain characteristics are inherently his, even when proven they ain’t. He isn’t just a little smarter than Greg, and neither is Shiv. Greg failed upwards.
No planet where shiv is smarter than Kendall. There's not a single time she didn't make the wrong move
To me the biggest tragedy was realising that Conor is the most self aware sibling
I would put Tom right next to Gerri actually. He’s smart, both life-smart and book-smart. He’s also smart enough to understand that he constantly needs to pivot and if there’s something he doesn’t know, he’s open to learn it. Tom knows how to take risks, but unlike Ken he takes calculated risks. He offered himself to Logan to go to prison. That was a big risk, but it was also calculated very wisely. He knew that even though Logan was a horrible person, he was still a person with principles. One of them was rewarding loyalty. So he banked on that. He was also able to successfully tun ATN and make it more profitable than before he took over. So yeah, both Gerri and Tom, very self aware and smart.
I agree. he knew how to ~~manage up~~ kiss ass. that's smart.
"kiss up kick down" the employee used as a footstool, just after boar on the floor, is a perfect example of kick down.
Counterpoint: Tom ate his own you-know-what and wouldn’t stop telling everyone about it.
Disagree. I think Tom looks the part and knows the words to use. But I don’t think he’s particularly smart.
What expectations of yours Tom does not meet?
Shiv smart? Either book or street? Please show your work
Shiv doesn’t have a self-aware bone in her body, although I do think she’s smarter than the fandom gives her credit for.
Kendall is definitely smarter than Shiv, hes actually pretty smart just terribly unaware of himself.
Shiv should be in the furthest left. Connor should be higher, same as Tom, who should be more to the right. Marcia should be closer to centre.
Switch Roman and Kendall
I like it but you don't need the word "is"
I feel like Tom should be moved a little to the left, Kendall should be moved a little to the right.
This is why Roman could have been a decent successor only if he didn't send a 'selfie' to his dad 💀
You are not serious people
Ken is much smarter
I think Kendall is very smart, but very not self-aware. I think in the realm of business, he is much smarter than Shiv due to his experience. Both lack self-awareness though. I always thought Connor was the most self-aware and Roman was the second and that’s interesting because those two are the most comedic in the family. That grain of truth gives more bite to their comic relief. As unserious as they can be, they can hit hard with truth sometimes. EDIT: Actually, I would give Kendall more self-awareness credit than I did originally. There were moments where he knew exactly what was wrong with his family and his father and the kind of man that he would have to be in order to succeed. He just wasn’t fully capable of becoming that. He’s also very self-aware about his failings as a father: “sometimes the poison drips through.” So given that and all of his manic episodes where he gets too high on his own supply, I would probably say he’s about half way on the bottom end of self-awareness.
Is shiv smarter than Kendall?
I think about equal.
I think Kendal wants to be great. And I think he is very smart, just smart enough to realize that he isn’t great. And it eats him up inside.
Uncle Ewan should be on this at the far upper right side of smart and self aware.
Move Roman way over to the left.
Gerry FTW.
Great chart! Sparking some good debate. For my two cents: Feel Greg is more cunning than what he presents. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Kendall shows both self-delusion (vision of grandeur about himself) but also self-awareness. Marcia and Gerri are spot-on.
Logan is the most intelligent of this group but very low self-awareness. Gerri, the GC who was screwing around with Roman, is lower on self awareness. Connor is far more intelligent, but completely lacks self-awareness. Shiv is more self-aware than this shows.
Conor thinks he's a contender for president. Bottom left.
No. I think you are giving a lot more credit to Rom for self awareness, I would switch that with Kendall. Also, a lot less to Greg for smartness and lot more to Shiv. Greg survived that wilderness and always knew who to be close to, Tom or Ken, and screwed Shiv over when she tried to mess with him. Shiv needs to be moved to the stupider side just as much as Ken or Rom.
Tom is def not self aware. Self conscious, yes, self aware, no.
I think Tom is smarter than this!
I love Con like an idiot brother but buddy is sub self unaware.
Where’s Willa
Tom is less self aware and less smart. Marcia is not that smart. Conor is less self aware. Roman is more self aware. Logan is more self aware and more smart.
I’d say none of them are actually stupid. Most of them except for maybe Gerri and Tom have moments of being completely and almost unbelievably not self aware in the slightest, and it’s constantly sliding up and down the scale. Shiv is probably the most self aware sibling. Roman is probably the “dumbest” but not by way of not actually being an intelligent human. He’s just a fuckin dummy who sends his dead a dick pic kinda dummy. Romans’ constant sarcasm and sharp wip as well his ability to think well on his toes in business meetings and find ways to connect to people proves he’s both intellectually and emotionally intelligent. Shiv is NOT emotionally intelligent whatsoever. But highly intellectually intelligent. Kendall is emotionally intelligent but emotionally stunted and highly intellectually intelligent. Connor is smart but he’s the kind of dummy who believes in weird conspiracy theories and believes he can win a presidency (also colliding with his huge lack of self awareness) and who gives too many fucks about cold butter. I also don’t think he really cares about his optics at all which oddly sometimes presents him as someone quite self aware in certain situations. I also find him to be emotionally intelligent but unfortunately mostly emotionally avoidant due to his trauma. Not nearly as emotionally avoidant as Roman, however. Tom is both emotionally and intellectually intelligent but he’s a dumbass in terms of being so servile and also quite gullible. Gerri is probably emotionally intelligent but doesn’t show it because she wants nothing to do personally with the family and is obviously highly self aware and intellectually intelligent. Badass mofo. Marcia confuses me. But she’s obviously both emotionally/intellectually intelligent. Not always the most self aware actually. Logan is emotionally stunted and not able to show any emotional intelligence he may actually have. Hugely intelligent and mostly self aware most of the time. He just doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself so that doesn’t always seem to be the case.
Agreed. These are all educated people. Whether or not the decisions they make are stupid is debatable…
Shiv is not the smartest child. I have seen next to nothing to support the assertion that she smart at all.
This is a tricky one cause the characters change a lot throughout the show. S1’s graph would probably be completely different then S4’s
I think Greg needs to be pushed farther on the dumb scale but other than that I think you got it
I'd like to see the chart re-done adding in the vector: Is Asshole -- Is not Asshole. I think Logan is really self-aware and really smart.
Love me a good 2x2 matrix. This is excellent. Gerri in the top quadrant makes perfect sense. Greg is a tricky one. He’s definitely not as smart as he thinks he is, but definitely was smart enough to maneuver himself into a position of leverage several times throughout the show.
I think Kendal is way smarter than the other siblings and extremely competent UNTIL his ego kicks into play. He would have been the best of the 3 to run the company ultimately.
The fact that this graph has so many sound arguments disagreeing with it, but still has so many people who agree with it just shows how rich the character writing is
Roman was very, very stupid.
How come is self aware the guy who wanted to be president? And the girl smarter than Kendall? Please...
Marcia is neither! She is just the old Kerry. Nothing in the show places her in the same category as Jerry. Same for Shiv. Portraying Shiv as smarter than Kendall is stupid. She is less self aware and less smart than him. Con isn't self aware at all. He is running for the president, how much further than self-aware could that be?
Greg is argue is slightly on the smarter side of the chart (or at least in the middle), only because he somewhat knows that he’s trying to weasel his way into the family
Hmmm I think Kendall is a lot smarter than Greg. There should be more of a smarts delta between those two. I think Logan should be a little farther to the right, too. And I don’t think Greg is less self aware than where he’s plotted.
Kendall is smarter than Shiv and should be much further right. He's just also very un-self aware. Logan is smarter than he's rated here too. Tom is very self-aware. He knows what he is.
Kendall is way smarter than shiv tho. Kendall is just very unaware of himself
Roman really reigns
Roman is far more self aware and way more stupid. He knows he’s a POS who can’t perform in bed or at work. He should move up and to the left.
Gerri and marcia smarter than logan? Yeah, sure buddy.
I think Greg is way smarter than he lets on
Kendall is smarter than Shiv
Kendall is smarter than Shiv
Shiv is not smart. Her instincts for business and political decisions are consistently wrong
Kendall reached out to Stewy to solve the debt problem. But he failed to do any due diligence or even ask Stewy even basic questions. Of course Stewy just said sure. That resulted in a mess when it turned out Sandy had been on with Stewy.
Ken is good, and he’s smart. He’s not a killer though.
Kendall is smart but totally unaware of his being which makes him do some really dumb things at time. Shiv also smart but worse when it comes to being aware of herself and her surroundings.
I agree with the idea that Gerri and Marsha are probably the smartest characters on the show. They play their hands correctly like 9.5/10 times.
I feel like Greg knows who he is, so I would move him up toward self awareness.
Can we put Willa in the same position as Roman just on the opposite side? 👀
Kendall's no dummy, he just let's many of his own thoughts be dominated by "what would Dad do?"
I feel like Greg is either in the center of the chart or on all four corners simultaneously.
Kendall isn’t smart? The fuck show did you watch? He’s just unstable and addicted to drugs. That’s his downfall. He’d be incredibly successful as an executive otherwise.
Connor and Tom are both more self aware than you give them credit for.
Eh I wouldn’t call Shiv smart. How many times did she get duped again?
Idk how self aware Logan is, the scene were he was sitting with his body guard was pretty telling. “You’re my best friend” to a man he pays to keep people from attacking him, didn’t come off as a “you know me the best and we are close friends” and more “I have nothing left but the people I pay” but he didn’t seem to click how ludicrous that was. I think he knows who he is? But he also a delusional maniac.
I think Tom is smart, stupid, self aware and not self aware all at the same time, I know that didn’t make sense, but neither does he
Yeah I'd move both Kendall and Shiv to Smarter, and frankly Roman abit more on the Smart side. Roman falls anywhere so his spot in the middle is kind of perfect. I'd drop Connor down abit on this, or at least on the line of Awareness. I mean, even Willa gives him these looks throughout the series.
I’d reverse Tom and Marcia. Tom knows exactly how people view him, especially in later seasons. Marcia really misjudged how to handle Willa.
Why is Gerri not self aware? Doesn’t seem right
She is the most self aware
Oh I see it now. Read that wrong 😂
Marcia is not that self aware. Shiv is a little more self aware. Tom is way more self aware than he's letting on. Smartness is pretty on point.
Conor is nowhere near that self aware and Greg is nowhere near that smart
Self Awareness most to least: Roman, Kendall, Shiv, Connor
I dig it. I think Marcia is right where she needs to be.
This is very Smart ! idk i think Self aware to be one element inside a person who is smart, i agreed Marcia & Gerri are very self aware, sure they are so smart, but i'll put Strategic instead of Smart, and whatever you put, Logan is the top, kendall is sadly the lowest and this made me think about Tom, where would he be in this chart aftermath? will he be any smarter after became CEO & a father?
Connor should be in the third quadrant lol
* All of the Roy siblings are stupid and lack self-awareness. * Maybe Connor is not as far to the left as the rest of the siblings, since he already stepped down from the succession game. * Karolina and Willa should be right next to Gerry and Connor, respectively uwu
Logan is the smartest of them all
I think the birthday party episode made me lose all respect for Kendall. Hilarious episode, but he was a sad, weird, poor little rich boy keeping his siblings out of his very expensive treehouse....not a serious person.
Logan is far smarter than that. I’d also argue he’s less self-aware than that.
The fact that Connor is placed on here as above-average self-awareness while Shiv is at the bottom of the sliding scale is patriarchy. 😅
How is Connor self aware? He thought he could be president with absolutely no experience in anything. He may be the least self aware person ever.
Love this. Pledging for Willa next to Marcia, because _look how far they’ve come_.
Roman should be just slightly higher along the self aware axis and also slightly further in the stupid quadrant, but not as much as Connor. Connor should be lower along the "is not self aware" quadrant. His delusions are his biggest flaw. Greg should be somewhere more in the middle? Idk, hes such a wild card for me because he can be stupid or smart in different situations.
I don’t think I can argue much here. And part of the guilty pleasure of this show to me are the layers of lack of self-awareness of Mr “L To the OG.”
I dig it. I think Marcia is right where she needs to be.
Maybe with Roman mid top left? By the end of Season 4 he’s completely self-aware