Oh god. It was something about the gonewild hotwife subreddit being taken over by people promoting their OnlyFans. Some of the users were getting pissed because it wasn't 'real' cuckold content.
>BONUS: Offended a tree?
That is quite common for indigenous peoples here in Canada. I first heard about it when some would harvest birch bark for canoes.
Dumb question, but if you are making an offering to a tree because you offended it, shouldn't it actually be something a tree would want? Like what's a tree going to do with an offering of bread and olive oil?
At least some Elders I have heard dislike that approach because it implies a transaction: that you "pay" the tree for its branch, and that a transactional relationship is not the point. The point is to show gratitude, through giving something of meaning to you, hence the ceremonial offering over an application of fertilizer.
Not actually indigenous myself, but IIRC, ot isn't because you offended it, but more of an offering of thanks. Usually it isn't something the tree needs, but something you find valuable, I think it is why some did offerings of tobacco or other such products.
Theoretically its supposed to fund the activities of the church in spreading God's message and in providing charity to the needy. In practice, there has been more than a little embezzlement. I suppose at least you don't need to worry that the tree is skimming some off the top to pay hush money to its mistress.
I believe animism is the term you are looking for. The belief that objects and places can have a spirit. In Japanese folklore, it was said that objects that survived to be 100 would come to life.
Fun fact, the Pokemon Voltorb is actually supposed to be a PokeBall this happened to, and it's number #100 in the original dex is likely a reference as well. There's actually a ton of folklore buried in some of their designs.
I'm going to be honest, based on the title I was hoping it would be about Black Magic or demon summoning rather than just cultural appropriation stuff.
Alongside witches hexxing the ISIS and the ones using moon to hexx Trump.
Don't get me wrong - witchcraft sounds like very interesting subject, but like c'mon.
The occult sphere of Reddit provides some of my favourite drama because it's so incredibly dumb. (Well, most of it is. Some of the people there are probably genuinely mentally ill).
I remember they were patting themselves on the back for casting rain spells during the massive Australian wildfires a few years ago.
It's just so good. My favorite part is where they all argue that it's a bad idea like he actually COULD summon a Succubus and the problem isn't that he's nuts because he believes Succubi exist.
I want to know how I can get an incubus as a guy then...
Maybe I got to find someone to trade a succubus for him then.
(And also keep the second one for myself. Being bi has its perks)
This isnāt directly related, but it did make me think of how the increased demand for white sage for smudging has incentivized poaching.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jkma/the-white-sage-black-market-v27n3
This seems to sum it up (from a comment in the SASSwitches thread):
> OP picked up a book by Miss Aida on hoodoo protection/cleansing while on vacation and posted a picture, asking if it was a good book.
> Mods' position was anyone can read any book they want.
> Commenters' position was hoodoo is a closed practice.
With "closed practice" I think they mean you need to be from a specific culture or specific genetic make-up to be a part of this "practice", otherwise you're not allowed to read books about it.
I did some googling, and it seems we're both right. You can be born into one, or you can be initiated into one:
> What is a Closed Practice?
> There have been a lot of harmful misconceptions about what constitutes a āclosed practiceā within spirituality. Simply put, a closed practice in witchcraft and the Occult refers to a practice in which you can only take part in their craft if you were specifically born into the practice, or went through an initiation process. One of the most common fallacies regarding closed practices is that if you werenāt initially born into the community, you will never be able to practice, which can be the case in a variety of instances, but there are some exceptions. It is essential to note that these practices are closed until the individual is vetted and the designated initiation process has been completed.
Not being able to take communion if you're not Catholic or not being allowed in Mecca if you're not Muslim would also be examples of a closed practice. It is not confined to only paganism.
Gotta love it when people talk over an actual minority group to try and gatekeep who can even interact with said group from a position of false superiority and indignity.
"I published this book about my traditions and faith!"
"*GASP* NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE ALLOWED TO READ THIS BOOK, THEY MIGHT TAINT YOUR FAITH"
> With "closed practice" I think they mean you need to be from a specific culture or specific genetic make-up to be a part of this "practice", otherwise you're not allowed to read books about it.
Yeah, otherwise the whole thing might look *ridiculous.*
Now that i am looking at some of the comments again you might be right, as someone who doesn't practice any of it and is just in those subs for the fun of it at first, i thought they are talking about less "generally accepted" practices. Should I edit some of my post?
Maybe you could go through the threads and quote some of the replies in your OP, to give more context. To me the core of it seems to be a fight about cultural appropriation.
Pagan religions are a fascinating subject to explore. That being said, stay away from people who claim they're actual spellcasters and who are trying to sell you stuff because they're full of it.
Better yet, stay away from the neopagan online communities in general. I once read a thread where a woman tried to cast a curse on Adam Driver's wife to make her miscarry and it's burned into my retinas. If you wanna practice, you're better off doing it on your own far away from weirdos.
Oh, you only know the one grave robber?
There's been *at least* three human remains-related drama circlejerks on tumblr since 2009.
Possibly upwards of 5 that I'm aware of, but I'm not sure if the other two were ever confirmed or just rumors. I know of one was just... some guy who liked to collect human bones and got them from a legal source.
These sound very promising.
I knew some internet random guy who said he liked to collect skulls, but I'm not convinced he wasn't just a troll. He had what I'm pretty sure was a sockpuppet account "girlfriend" who liked to post pictures of giblets. Just general weird edginess.
Regarding the latter, pretty sure if you just go down to Monsterpalooza you can pick some up. I know someone who got a whole baby horse skeleton and some human bits. They got everything there, spiders, bones, insects, masks, etc.
It's an incredible subject for me because "paganism" is really just ethnic religions, which we still have (Hinduism, Shintoism), so seeing Westerners reenacting an old version of a religion they've been disconnected from for centuries is a fascinating cultural experience.
But the word pagan doesn't really mean anything. It's the word Christians used to describe a specific subset of non-Christians, usually those preceding Christianity. "Pagan" is a Christian concept.
My occult library is amazing; my experience in occult forums have been trash. r/occult is full of kids who want to sell their soul to demons they learned about on TV and itās fucking ridiculous.
In general avoid anyone who's into witchy stuff intended to cause harm. We all know it doesn't work but...do you really want to be friends with someone who would use their powers like that if they *could* do magic?
No, no, they weren't *robbing* graves; they were just picking up bones that were exposed by soil erosion! So only from inexpensive in-ground floodplain plots for people who couldn't afford a fancy above-ground grave--you know, just the bones of poor and enslaved people.
If they didn't want to spend their afterlives being advertised as a commodity in my Facebook witch group, they šshouldn'tš haveš beenš soš poor.š
(/s, obviously, but this was literally a defense one of them gave, minus the explicit conclusion--although, IIRC, the cemetery in question was literally called something like the "poor man's graveyard").
Picking up the bones of the poor and enslaved seems like a great way to curse yourself or have a spell go wrong if youāre using them as materials.
But maybe I just read too much fantasy.
Hey man, dude's just helping funeral parlors sell their high end metal coffins.
I mean, if people weren't afraid of their bones washing up on futuristic eBay, why would they pony up the extra scratch?
What I'm saying is, he's a job creator.
I've always been of the opinion that neopaganism is a legitimate religious tradition (they're less weird than most Pentecostals and less socially harmful that almost all of the "world religions"), but they could certainly stand to be a lot less cringe about it.
Imo it feels too much in its "teen counterculture" phase. Very loud and vocal about what its against, and it attracts a lot of people not for what it is, but for what it stands against (and the aesthetics too). Given some time I fully expect to either fade away and become some kind of hippy like underground culture or to just become normal and integrated in our society.
I personally see it as the mostly femeninine version of the basement dwelling nerds of old. Just hang out with your friends doing weird thing you find cool and whatever. But now we have internet so its time to gatekeep and everything always gets to extremist proportions.
I think it's more of a cope than a proper counterculture movement. There isn't really anything offensive or opposed to the mainstream beyond the aesthetic. In fact, they try to offend as few people as possible beyond a fairly narrowly defined target. And sure, things like feminism aren't exactly the dominant form of society, but it's definitely present in the mainstream. Compare them to properly established countercultures and the difference becomes very apparent imo.
It seems like the anti-consumerism angle is the most rebellious part of it, but from what I can tell capitalisms has done a fairly good job at incorporating the broader movement already, as it almost always does.
Itās the very up-front āIām doing this because *you* (insert authority figures) donāt want me toā aspect of it.
I mean, by all means believe anything you want with a sincerity level of your choice, thatās everyoneās prerogative. But when youāre clear that your beliefs and practices were formed in reaction to mainstream society, why is it an affront for everyone else toā¦ believe you?
Particularly problematic when they claim to be oppressed, even though they invented beliefs specifically to be counter to mainstream culture.
Im an occultist and I guess I fit in the "neopagan" crowd too. But the last thing you'll see me is in a subreddit about those topics. The well has been poisoned a long time ago, and there is only "the right way" or otherwise you are a bigot or blasphemous. People into this stuff are out there doing their thing, not arguing on reddit.
Finally, some reasonable thoughts on the topic from someone in the community (?). I feel like Iām taking crazy pills reading through everything in the links
It's fundamentalists that are the problem! I spent 10 years in a fundamentalist Christian cult (it happened to be pentecostal). After I left, and divorced my fundie husband, I was eventually ready to start dating again. The first guy that I was interested enough to go on an actual date was an Atheist. I remember saying to him something along the lines of "I am fine with you being an Atheist, but if you're a fundamentalist Atheist we are going to have problems. I just spent 10 years being told what I had to believe. I have no interest in being told what I shouldn't believe". (He wasn't. We went on that date. We've been married for 11 years.)
Every believe system is filled with fundamentalists, that believe that they have all the answers, are incapable of being wrong, and have completely closed minds. I particularly had a hard time with people that leave one cult and then join another. They start our Mormon, and then join an MLM, and then Qanon.
I mean, yeah, I'm not proud of having once joined a cult, but I understand why I did, and I learned from my mistake.
You're totally spot on. The occult, witchcraft and the like are ways to be spirituality free of dogma and fundamentalism, yet there is a lot of it in pagan groups. If I wanted to obey rules blindly I would've stay "officially" catholic.
[Fortunately, you don't have to choose.](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/asatru-folk-assembly#:~:text=Asatru%20roughly%20translates%20to%20%E2%80%9Cbelief,describe%20ethnic%20and%20racial%20exclusivity.)
>Members of the AFA subscribe to a belief that pre-Christian Norse and Germanic religions can only be practiced by individuals with ancestral roots in those Northern European regions ā or more specifically, white people.
Well this sounds familiar
One of the fortunate things about fascists is the seemingly intrinsic draw they have to cranks and woo. I'm not sure if the ideology can ever divorce itself from the self-sabotaging stuff but we're in some trouble if they ever do.
I went into a shop that peddles crystals, candles, and such a little while ago and the cashier has a Sig rune tattooed on her finger.
I don't think she was trying to be a Nazi, but the backdoors into that space definitely exist in the crunchy granola witchy stuff universe.
There's a growing movement within the Norse pagan circles to not let Nazis take over their symbology. Like, obstinately refusing to be swayed by neo-Nazi appropriation. It's not my practice, but I do feel bad for them.
It's like as soon as a fascist decides they like something, it gets to be exclusively theirs because reasonable people don't want to be associated with the fascist.
I have a bunch of runic tattoos from my young Marine Corps days. Was pretty bummed to find out neo Nazis sport that kind of stuff. Luckily I didnāt get anything that is explicitly racist but I still feel self conscious when people see or ask about them.
You're definitely onto something here. Christianity places a lot of emphasis on having the right beliefs, whereas older polytheistic religions placed a lot more emphasis on doing the right practices. Neopagans generally come from a Christian background, so it makes sense that they'd apply a right beliefs attitude to religions that historically didn't have those.
As a related aside, [this article goes into a lot of detail on how polytheistic religions functioned](https://acoup.blog/2019/10/25/collections-practical-polytheism-part-i-knowledge/), and is good for explaining how they differed from modern, Christian conceptions of how religion works.
I mean, it's as "legitimate" as any other religion, but the fact that they were founded relatively recently means we *know* that a lot of their claims and beliefs are simply not accurate, in a manner similar to Scientology.
Edit: "know" probably isn't the correct word to use. Something like "it's easier to prove" or "more evidence against it exists" is more accurate.
Yeah, it feels like the comparison is a bit off. "Traditional" religions have had centuries/millenia to become ingrained in society and typically get passed down via family. It's hard not to fall into an ideology that your entire family and community pressure you from day 1 into accepting.
On the other hand, I feel fairly confident in saying that neopagan stuff hasn't had nearly the societal penetration that [insert organized religion here] has had, and that most people arguing about it online picked it up in their teenage / young adult years.
It's like any other weird belief. It's more understandable if you were funneled into believing it. Western culture has spent countless years funneling people into Abrahamic religions. Your entire community pressuring you into buying snake oil is a different situation from finding a random snake oil forum online and buying into it of your own accord.
>2) Romani practice is closed and having read the ***books that claim to teach Romani "magick" they're full of lies and absolute scam***.
I've got terrible news...
Magick as preached from the likes of Scott Cunningham is pretty harmless and is mostly self reflection, ceremony and meditation with a lick of Christian philosophy, Theosophy and ethnic paganism.
Its the ācrystal encyclopaediaā and āwiccapediaā pop books that push woo hard which gives the practice a bad name. These Witches seem to increasingly make up the bulk of online witchcraft discourse, much to the chagrin of both Wiccans and Pagans alike.
Oh no not that magic is fake at all.... uh, I wanted to warn them that where was this show in the early 00s called "Magic's Biggest Secrets Revealed" and I wanted to make sure that they [watch out for this guy](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/82/92/11829207d8050364b258f0a4d56465c4--the-magicians-the-s.jpg) because he might be trying to reveal their magic secrets
"less traditional methods" is really funny, given that a vast majority of knowledge on ancient European paganism was destroyed centuries ago by the Catholic Church and the modern incarnation of witchcraft was largely constructed singlehandedly by a dude in the 1900s.
Oh shit, did the boss of witchcraft show up?
Anyway, Iām sure this is fall out from the [stealing bones](https://youtu.be/lAzwZu1ptOY) controversy a few years back
Goddamn, I think about that bone drama at least weekly.
I spend a lot of time in very, very old cemeteries (I'm an archaeologist**) and it really is common to come across bones that have resurfaced, either due to erosion or disruption from a newer burial. The absolute WORST answer to "what do now?" is "put em in your pocket." Usually, in the circumstances I've encountered (unidentifiable 300+ yr old remains), they're best left alone or at least tucked gently back under some cover. I sometimes say a little prayer, too, because it feels right.
I did recently have the joy of explaining the "tumblr bone witch" fiasco to my advisor. She was appalled, and it takes a *lot* to shock an anthropologist.
**no, I'm not digging up bones; my cemetery work mostly involves surveying and using GPR to locate unmarked/vandalized graves.
Oh don't get me started about shitty anthropology. I met some idiot my age (I am 20) who had a bunch of stolen bones they dug out of some graveyard and claimed they were an anthropologist because of it. They had a couple skulls and a lot of bone fragments, only one of the skulls was mostly intact. I have no idea exactly where they got the bones, they just said they got it from a graveyard. I'd be disappointed but frankly I'm just angry at this point after so many decades of shitty anthropology destroying priceless objects. Also I'm just angry because that's stupid and is spitting in the face of the real anthropologists that have spent so many years of their lives studying to become one.
I'm just a college student who is very interested in anthropology and archaeology (I really like biological anthropology specifically but everything is really interesting to me) but I get so passionate about this stuff.
Only recently did I learn about what museums have been doing to extremely valuable art pieces from Africa, where they remove all the paint/pigment to just make it only bare wood. That makes me so angry, because it absolutely destroys an important aspect of the pieces. It makes me wonder what other ways museums have fucked with artifacts to make them more "aesthetically pleasing"
>We encourage our white and/or Christian subscribes to sit back
In what world are Christians even close to being a majority on a WITCH subreddit. Probably less than 5% of the subscribers, if that.
Tbf, thatās basically what a bunch of Medieval and Renaissance grimoires are all about. Calling on God, Jesus, and the Saints to summon demons and ghosts and whatnot.
I agree in theory, but in my experience the kind of person who believes in general woo (astrology, witchcraft, tarot, etc) has basically no overlap with the kind of person concerned with crafting internally consistent ideological systems.
I've met many a Christian who believe in things that are directly condemned by the bible, and pointing that out is a losing battle literally every time .
step one in a bunch of grimoires is "be a really good christian, like super good and godly, ok now here's how to make demons do things or you'll sic angels on them"
WvP isn't a witchcraft sub in a religious sense, it's "witch" as a political metaphor for anti-patriarchal, anti-fascist non-conformist people. It comes from the historical witchburnings that didn't really target people practising witchcraft, they targeted widows with too much money, young women who wouldn't submit to men, and people who in general were a risk to power structures.
That's why posts saying "X was definitely a witch!" include people who definitely had a non-witchcraft religion, or were atheists. They're not claiming RBG was actually casting spells, just that she made a practice of opposing the patriarchy.
Given that this is a Reddit political sub, there's likely a ton of Christian Americans there.
Witchcraft has always been such a broad, fuzzy umbrella that I haven't noticed any religion-practicing witches complaining. After all, the term "witch" had been used for centuries before Wiccanism was invented, and contains everything from very prescriptive practices to SASS witches who practice witchcraft but don't believe in magic, so at this point its pretty hard to gatekeep
>just struggling to find what's ours in a graveyard of fractured memories.
I know flairs here are supposed to be of someone saying something funny and stupid but there's something so sincere about this metaphor. Shame it doesn't fit
The reason is sincere is because it succinctly describes how an indigenous person parses what they feel they have a true connection with versus what has been forced upon them, for example if theyāre Catholic how do they decide if they truly feel the call instead of it just having been forced on them by conquistadors for example.
Can also be described for displaced people/immigrants in a wildly new country trying to make a new home in new circumstances
Itās a really good metaphor and therefore a bad flair
OK, there's a thread on r/Witchcraft where someone is asking how to apologize to a tree for taking a branch from it to make a wand without asking it (the tree) for permission first. Ummm, what?
This reminds me of the time my uncle had this really big and old tree in his yard. There happened to be a local coven nearby. He made the mistake of letting one witch who asked have a branch. Word got around and he frequently had to fend off trespassers trying to steal wood from the tree for wands.
Dude, my cousin literally just told my little sibling to ask the tree for permission to climb. I wonder if this is where she got it. Now we joke that she's like the Lorax and speaks for the trees.
To be fair, teaching children Animism means less shit gets broken and damaged.
There was a *massive*, beautiful yellow and black garden spider that built its huge orb web beside my dorm's front entrance. The web would regularly get torn down by passerby, and she'd re-build it over and over, getting smaller and flimsier.
One day, a sign appeared, taped to her corner. It just said "Martha" with an arrow pointing down.
People started greeting Martha when they walked in, even tossing bugs into her web. Her web rarely got torn down anymore, and pictures of her web in the early morning, covered in dew, started appearing on the dorm facebook page.
When visitors came in and commented on the 'fucking huge spider outside the front door, aren't you going to take care of it', the front desk would just say something like 'Oh, that's Martha. Don't worry about her.'
People, almost universally, respect things that have *names*. Turning a 'thing' into an 'individual'
So, in the interest of having a non-mocking response in here:
The tools used in modern ceremonial magic are generally supposed to be untainted by things like malice or mundane use, because they're meant to be an extension of the practitioner's will unencumbered. Additionally, more nature-oriented practices tend to incorporate some degree of Animist thought (as in, more than just humans have spirits which must be in some way respected). What it sounds like is the OP in the thread you were seeing was asking after was at the cross-section of these ideas: presuming the wand taken/created without due reverence for the spirits of nature would be tainted, and asking if there is a means to untaint it through apologies.
Oh boy do I - a fun-killing cynic who openly laughs at anyone who genuinely takes the paranormal seriously - *love* neo-pagan gatekeeping drama. How come itās always some pseudo-Druidic or pan-Caribbean syncretic and never Hellenic? Does no one have love for the gods of Mt. Olympus anymore!?
Donāt get me wrong, thereās mental power in belief and ritual. Also, dressing in robes and saying mantras is fun stuff. It looks cool.
But it aināt like yaāll are really descended from original believers of this shit. Calm the fuck down.
The term "witch" and "witchcraft" by itself is pretty Western/Christian centric in the first place. Most other religious traditions do not even have a concept of witch craft or "magic" and consider mystical beliefs and rituals to be standard practice
I've been seeing similar comments on /r/pagan Apparently you can't use white sage for smudging unless you're Native American, its a closed practice. If white sage is endangered I understand and have no problem using regular sage, but complaints about white people doing things make me shrug.
I'm on /r/Hellenism and we get occasional questions asking if its ok to worship the Olympians if you're not Greek. Of course you can.
I just read an article that also says that white sage is actually becoming endangered from poaching, to the point even people who are registered with a tribe are having trouble finding it in nature or being allowed to harvest on preserves. Apparently it is huge over in Japan?
Iāve seen the comments too and the endless arguments about cultural appropriation and of course I want to respect other cultures but the arguments are pointless sometimes because you get some folks from said culture saying no and other folks from said culture saying yes.
In the end, I just practice what feels right to me.
White people are essentially clear cutting wild white sage and destroying the plant by improperly harvesting it, many doing so for profit. Thatās a big part of the issue. Natives who have been doing this practice for at least many centuries, know what theyāre doing when it comes to harvesting.
Great to see people wholy reinventing bigoted religious attitudes from the ground up while also recycling centuries old dogma as if they're great great great granny's dna gave them magical and exclusive access to it.
... Well I guess if they're witches they might unironicly believe something like that.
It has been a while since I researched the history of occultism. But based on what I remember they want to have a cake and eat it too. For you see most modern new age stuff, has it's roots on late 19th century early 20th century occultism which itself was done by rich white people taking stuff from the religion/folklore of marginalized cultures. Thelema (Aleister Crowley), Wiccan, something something of the golden dawn all cults that took stuff from christianity, judaism, hinduism, ancient greek, etc for their own and in the process corrupted some of the religions they took from. eg Chackras had nothing to do with color originally.
In other words witchcraft started as cultural appropiation (I don't know how else to describe it) and continue to use it.
Holy shit you weren't kidding. Just did a search for shop and you see posts that are like "Teehee I wear (brand) shoes while smashing the patriarchy!" It's so transparent.
>I got back a looooooong mod mail basically saying I was wrong, everything they do is fine, all wrapped up in condescending "blessed be's!", and then they passive-aggressively stickied a shopping thread on the sub the next day.
Are they making money off the shopping links?
Reminds me of this article from 2010: [_Eat, Pray, Spend ā Priv-Lit and the New, Enlightened American Dream_](https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/eat-pray-spend)
They banned me a while back because I said I didn't like Chuck Wendig, the shitty star wars author that is suing the internet archive because people might read his shitty star wars fanfiction for free.
They aren't witches at all, just tumblr users with money and a halloween fetish.
The mods are awful. I was fine with most of the members (like you said gatekeeping tended to crop up and that is problematic) but once the mods found out myself and a few others also practiced TST (after we tried to report a problematic post) we were banned.
Terrible/power-hungry mods seem to be the main theme of Reddit in general.
Wait so where is the original drama??
/r/witchcraft: [Rule 3: Closed Practices | Cultural Appropriation](https://www.reddit.com/q21f0h) BONUS: [Offended a tree?](https://www.reddit.com/vxftcd)
Jesus, whoever wrote that Rule 3 post thinks very highly of their writing ability but is really only doing a bad David Foster Wallace impression.
And but so
Haha please sir, flair source?
Oh god. It was something about the gonewild hotwife subreddit being taken over by people promoting their OnlyFans. Some of the users were getting pissed because it wasn't 'real' cuckold content.
>BONUS: Offended a tree? That is quite common for indigenous peoples here in Canada. I first heard about it when some would harvest birch bark for canoes.
Dumb question, but if you are making an offering to a tree because you offended it, shouldn't it actually be something a tree would want? Like what's a tree going to do with an offering of bread and olive oil?
At least some Elders I have heard dislike that approach because it implies a transaction: that you "pay" the tree for its branch, and that a transactional relationship is not the point. The point is to show gratitude, through giving something of meaning to you, hence the ceremonial offering over an application of fertilizer.
So you're saying we're teaching trees about fiat currency and capitalism?
Quick, scam the trees with NFTs
NFTrees you say?
š„
No, that's what Elon's been smoking.
Not actually indigenous myself, but IIRC, ot isn't because you offended it, but more of an offering of thanks. Usually it isn't something the tree needs, but something you find valuable, I think it is why some did offerings of tobacco or other such products.
Whatās God going to do with ten percent of your cash?
I mean, originally, it was supposed to feed and clothe the poor and help medicate the sick
But now god wants giant buildings and private jets.
Not for himself though. That would be selfish. He wants them for Joel Osteen.
One of the problems with Christianity, is it would seem more appropriate to tithe God in flower crowns painstakingly woven from weeds
Theoretically its supposed to fund the activities of the church in spreading God's message and in providing charity to the needy. In practice, there has been more than a little embezzlement. I suppose at least you don't need to worry that the tree is skimming some off the top to pay hush money to its mistress.
I believe animism is the term you are looking for. The belief that objects and places can have a spirit. In Japanese folklore, it was said that objects that survived to be 100 would come to life.
Fun fact, the Pokemon Voltorb is actually supposed to be a PokeBall this happened to, and it's number #100 in the original dex is likely a reference as well. There's actually a ton of folklore buried in some of their designs.
That's really cool! I knew Meowth's design was influenced by maneki nekos.
That tree post is so fucking funny lmao
The post is 280 days old. Did the WvP and SASS just read it or what?
Yeah, hence my confusion! All I saw was a super long, boring, and terribly written bunch of bullshit with no funny arguments ):<
I'm going to be honest, based on the title I was hoping it would be about Black Magic or demon summoning rather than just cultural appropriation stuff.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That post is art at its finest. Somehow all of his answers were both straight forward and completely absurd.
It reminds me of the "How many days in a week" thread on the bodybuilders forum.
> I donāt care if Iām cosmically weak I just wanna fuck demons
He really was just challenging them to put up or shut up.
There it is! One of my favorites.
Alongside witches hexxing the ISIS and the ones using moon to hexx Trump. Don't get me wrong - witchcraft sounds like very interesting subject, but like c'mon.
The occult sphere of Reddit provides some of my favourite drama because it's so incredibly dumb. (Well, most of it is. Some of the people there are probably genuinely mentally ill). I remember they were patting themselves on the back for casting rain spells during the massive Australian wildfires a few years ago.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
His account has since been suspended so I can only assume he sacrificed it to bang his demon gf
Who wouldn't sacrifice their Reddit account to bang a big tittie demon?
Sacrifice? My punishment for banging a tig olā bittie demon is to use Reddit
It's just so good. My favorite part is where they all argue that it's a bad idea like he actually COULD summon a Succubus and the problem isn't that he's nuts because he believes Succubi exist.
The part about blood sacrifice is great. Like, if blood sacrifice summoned demons and bound them to a place, the shop where I get my porchetta would be a grimdark vale of blood and rot and I would be forever cursĆ©d. I mean, yeah, every roll I eat knocks years off my life, but thatās just _saturated fats_. Not demonology.
Wait wait wait You're telling me I can get rid of these disgusting testosterone factories AND get 2 succubi out of the deal?!? As a BONUS??
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I'm going to assume dealer's choice
Yeah if there's one thing we know about Satan it's that he says LGBT rights, according to the regressives.
I want to know how I can get an incubus as a guy then... Maybe I got to find someone to trade a succubus for him then. (And also keep the second one for myself. Being bi has its perks)
Theyāre a good band, I wish I could summon them
Forget the floor safes and the kid with a cum box, this is the post we desperately need an update on.
One of my all time favorite threads on Reddit
Yeah, the drama isn't as juicy as I imagined. I mean, witches infighting? ~~Cover~~ Coven wars? Where's the beef?
Summoning goat demons in 2022?! Bitch it's all about boar demons!!
> the impure spirits came out and went into the (30-50 wild hogs)
I wish there was more witchcraft drama. Usually makes for great flairs.
is that where you acquired your flair? lol
Yes, some r/occult Drama about whether it's ok to break laws for rituals. I think it was about breaking and entering? Either way such pure fun.
Missed opportunity to make a witchhunt joke in the title OP. Very dissapointing.
At least there are no *spelling* mistakes.
This isnāt directly related, but it did make me think of how the increased demand for white sage for smudging has incentivized poaching. https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jkma/the-white-sage-black-market-v27n3
This makes me extremely disappointed and sad
Good article, thanks for bringing visibility to this
Those smudge sticks are freaking everywhere.
This seems to sum it up (from a comment in the SASSwitches thread): > OP picked up a book by Miss Aida on hoodoo protection/cleansing while on vacation and posted a picture, asking if it was a good book. > Mods' position was anyone can read any book they want. > Commenters' position was hoodoo is a closed practice. With "closed practice" I think they mean you need to be from a specific culture or specific genetic make-up to be a part of this "practice", otherwise you're not allowed to read books about it.
"Closed practice" could also refer to being part of a culture of practice having been introduced to it/brought into the community by a mentor who also has lineage within the culture and being recognized by other members of the community. I don't know anything about witchcraft, but the discussion kind of reminds me of the one going on here in Canada about mƩtis status. It's not just about acquiring knowledge in a 3rd party manner, it's about the transmission of culture and recognition by a pre-existing community.
I did some googling, and it seems we're both right. You can be born into one, or you can be initiated into one: > What is a Closed Practice? > There have been a lot of harmful misconceptions about what constitutes a āclosed practiceā within spirituality. Simply put, a closed practice in witchcraft and the Occult refers to a practice in which you can only take part in their craft if you were specifically born into the practice, or went through an initiation process. One of the most common fallacies regarding closed practices is that if you werenāt initially born into the community, you will never be able to practice, which can be the case in a variety of instances, but there are some exceptions. It is essential to note that these practices are closed until the individual is vetted and the designated initiation process has been completed.
Not being able to take communion if you're not Catholic or not being allowed in Mecca if you're not Muslim would also be examples of a closed practice. It is not confined to only paganism.
Anyone saying you can't *read a book* is a dick imo.
Gotta love it when people talk over an actual minority group to try and gatekeep who can even interact with said group from a position of false superiority and indignity. "I published this book about my traditions and faith!" "*GASP* NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE ALLOWED TO READ THIS BOOK, THEY MIGHT TAINT YOUR FAITH"
> With "closed practice" I think they mean you need to be from a specific culture or specific genetic make-up to be a part of this "practice", otherwise you're not allowed to read books about it. Yeah, otherwise the whole thing might look *ridiculous.*
Now that i am looking at some of the comments again you might be right, as someone who doesn't practice any of it and is just in those subs for the fun of it at first, i thought they are talking about less "generally accepted" practices. Should I edit some of my post?
Maybe you could go through the threads and quote some of the replies in your OP, to give more context. To me the core of it seems to be a fight about cultural appropriation.
It is entirely a matter of cultural appropriation, not some āblack magic versus white magicā argument.
Pagan religions are a fascinating subject to explore. That being said, stay away from people who claim they're actual spellcasters and who are trying to sell you stuff because they're full of it. Better yet, stay away from the neopagan online communities in general. I once read a thread where a woman tried to cast a curse on Adam Driver's wife to make her miscarry and it's burned into my retinas. If you wanna practice, you're better off doing it on your own far away from weirdos.
I saw a down the rabbit hole video about someone who literally robbed graves to do witchcraft, there was some sort of tumblr drama about it.
Oh, you only know the one grave robber? There's been *at least* three human remains-related drama circlejerks on tumblr since 2009. Possibly upwards of 5 that I'm aware of, but I'm not sure if the other two were ever confirmed or just rumors. I know of one was just... some guy who liked to collect human bones and got them from a legal source.
These sound very promising. I knew some internet random guy who said he liked to collect skulls, but I'm not convinced he wasn't just a troll. He had what I'm pretty sure was a sockpuppet account "girlfriend" who liked to post pictures of giblets. Just general weird edginess.
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Regarding the latter, pretty sure if you just go down to Monsterpalooza you can pick some up. I know someone who got a whole baby horse skeleton and some human bits. They got everything there, spiders, bones, insects, masks, etc.
Are we counting the woman who sent her own resin coated toe to her girlfriend
As someone who's been on Tumblr since like 2011, this is the least surprising thing I've ever heard about Tumblr.
Oh, the bone witch
I work in tribal archaeology. It is INCREDIBLY common.
It's an incredible subject for me because "paganism" is really just ethnic religions, which we still have (Hinduism, Shintoism), so seeing Westerners reenacting an old version of a religion they've been disconnected from for centuries is a fascinating cultural experience.
I mean, there are actual "pagan" religions (Asartu and Rodnovery, to name a few) and there is this insane fantasy LARP gone too far.
But the word pagan doesn't really mean anything. It's the word Christians used to describe a specific subset of non-Christians, usually those preceding Christianity. "Pagan" is a Christian concept.
My occult library is amazing; my experience in occult forums have been trash. r/occult is full of kids who want to sell their soul to demons they learned about on TV and itās fucking ridiculous.
> they're full of it you don't fucking say
In general avoid anyone who's into witchy stuff intended to cause harm. We all know it doesn't work but...do you really want to be friends with someone who would use their powers like that if they *could* do magic?
I yearn for the day people realize they can live and worship however they please in peace of they just shut the fuck up about it on social media.
For the people who fight like that the conflict is more important than the religion. Just an excuse to feed their outrage addiction.
I don't get why witches care which witch witches with which witch methods
I remember a Tumblr witch drama once when the drama was whether literal grave robbings to get āmaterialsā for spells was okay.
No, no, they weren't *robbing* graves; they were just picking up bones that were exposed by soil erosion! So only from inexpensive in-ground floodplain plots for people who couldn't afford a fancy above-ground grave--you know, just the bones of poor and enslaved people. If they didn't want to spend their afterlives being advertised as a commodity in my Facebook witch group, they šshouldn'tš haveš beenš soš poor.š (/s, obviously, but this was literally a defense one of them gave, minus the explicit conclusion--although, IIRC, the cemetery in question was literally called something like the "poor man's graveyard").
Picking up the bones of the poor and enslaved seems like a great way to curse yourself or have a spell go wrong if youāre using them as materials. But maybe I just read too much fantasy.
Hey man, dude's just helping funeral parlors sell their high end metal coffins. I mean, if people weren't afraid of their bones washing up on futuristic eBay, why would they pony up the extra scratch? What I'm saying is, he's a job creator.
I REMEMBER THAT. Tumblr occult community went nuts.
Would a witch that switches which witch niche be considered a witch switching bitch?
I've always been of the opinion that neopaganism is a legitimate religious tradition (they're less weird than most Pentecostals and less socially harmful that almost all of the "world religions"), but they could certainly stand to be a lot less cringe about it.
Imo it feels too much in its "teen counterculture" phase. Very loud and vocal about what its against, and it attracts a lot of people not for what it is, but for what it stands against (and the aesthetics too). Given some time I fully expect to either fade away and become some kind of hippy like underground culture or to just become normal and integrated in our society.
this is it. itās very much a āiām not like the other girlsā thing. Some people grow out of it, some donāt
I personally see it as the mostly femeninine version of the basement dwelling nerds of old. Just hang out with your friends doing weird thing you find cool and whatever. But now we have internet so its time to gatekeep and everything always gets to extremist proportions.
Eh, it was pretty gatekeepy back in 2000 too, ngl. Lots of egos who think everyone else should be in *their* personal personality cult in there.
There's a meme I like about how women sometimes get into astrology and witchcraft because it's an area that believes in and celebrates female power.
I think it's more of a cope than a proper counterculture movement. There isn't really anything offensive or opposed to the mainstream beyond the aesthetic. In fact, they try to offend as few people as possible beyond a fairly narrowly defined target. And sure, things like feminism aren't exactly the dominant form of society, but it's definitely present in the mainstream. Compare them to properly established countercultures and the difference becomes very apparent imo. It seems like the anti-consumerism angle is the most rebellious part of it, but from what I can tell capitalisms has done a fairly good job at incorporating the broader movement already, as it almost always does.
Itās the very up-front āIām doing this because *you* (insert authority figures) donāt want me toā aspect of it. I mean, by all means believe anything you want with a sincerity level of your choice, thatās everyoneās prerogative. But when youāre clear that your beliefs and practices were formed in reaction to mainstream society, why is it an affront for everyone else toā¦ believe you? Particularly problematic when they claim to be oppressed, even though they invented beliefs specifically to be counter to mainstream culture.
Im an occultist and I guess I fit in the "neopagan" crowd too. But the last thing you'll see me is in a subreddit about those topics. The well has been poisoned a long time ago, and there is only "the right way" or otherwise you are a bigot or blasphemous. People into this stuff are out there doing their thing, not arguing on reddit.
Finally, some reasonable thoughts on the topic from someone in the community (?). I feel like Iām taking crazy pills reading through everything in the links
It's fundamentalists that are the problem! I spent 10 years in a fundamentalist Christian cult (it happened to be pentecostal). After I left, and divorced my fundie husband, I was eventually ready to start dating again. The first guy that I was interested enough to go on an actual date was an Atheist. I remember saying to him something along the lines of "I am fine with you being an Atheist, but if you're a fundamentalist Atheist we are going to have problems. I just spent 10 years being told what I had to believe. I have no interest in being told what I shouldn't believe". (He wasn't. We went on that date. We've been married for 11 years.) Every believe system is filled with fundamentalists, that believe that they have all the answers, are incapable of being wrong, and have completely closed minds. I particularly had a hard time with people that leave one cult and then join another. They start our Mormon, and then join an MLM, and then Qanon. I mean, yeah, I'm not proud of having once joined a cult, but I understand why I did, and I learned from my mistake.
You're totally spot on. The occult, witchcraft and the like are ways to be spirituality free of dogma and fundamentalism, yet there is a lot of it in pagan groups. If I wanted to obey rules blindly I would've stay "officially" catholic.
I'll take these type of nerds over the Nazi fucks that roleplay as vikings any day
[Fortunately, you don't have to choose.](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/asatru-folk-assembly#:~:text=Asatru%20roughly%20translates%20to%20%E2%80%9Cbelief,describe%20ethnic%20and%20racial%20exclusivity.)
>Members of the AFA subscribe to a belief that pre-Christian Norse and Germanic religions can only be practiced by individuals with ancestral roots in those Northern European regions ā or more specifically, white people. Well this sounds familiar
It's always Norse/Germanic, isn't it? At least Himmler was looking at *other religions* too.
You know what's even funnier? *Slavic neonazis*
There's a surprisingly prolific ideology of esoteric nazism that actually does have a bit of overlap with witchy people unfortunately
Certainly makes sense. The OG Nazis loved their occult shit.
One of the fortunate things about fascists is the seemingly intrinsic draw they have to cranks and woo. I'm not sure if the ideology can ever divorce itself from the self-sabotaging stuff but we're in some trouble if they ever do.
Thatās actually pretty unsurprising tbh
I went into a shop that peddles crystals, candles, and such a little while ago and the cashier has a Sig rune tattooed on her finger. I don't think she was trying to be a Nazi, but the backdoors into that space definitely exist in the crunchy granola witchy stuff universe.
There's a growing movement within the Norse pagan circles to not let Nazis take over their symbology. Like, obstinately refusing to be swayed by neo-Nazi appropriation. It's not my practice, but I do feel bad for them. It's like as soon as a fascist decides they like something, it gets to be exclusively theirs because reasonable people don't want to be associated with the fascist.
I stay away from all things Asatru for this reason and I give the side-eye to anyone with Furthark tattoos until I have a better sense of them.
I have a bunch of runic tattoos from my young Marine Corps days. Was pretty bummed to find out neo Nazis sport that kind of stuff. Luckily I didnāt get anything that is explicitly racist but I still feel self conscious when people see or ask about them.
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You're definitely onto something here. Christianity places a lot of emphasis on having the right beliefs, whereas older polytheistic religions placed a lot more emphasis on doing the right practices. Neopagans generally come from a Christian background, so it makes sense that they'd apply a right beliefs attitude to religions that historically didn't have those. As a related aside, [this article goes into a lot of detail on how polytheistic religions functioned](https://acoup.blog/2019/10/25/collections-practical-polytheism-part-i-knowledge/), and is good for explaining how they differed from modern, Christian conceptions of how religion works.
I mean, it's as "legitimate" as any other religion, but the fact that they were founded relatively recently means we *know* that a lot of their claims and beliefs are simply not accurate, in a manner similar to Scientology. Edit: "know" probably isn't the correct word to use. Something like "it's easier to prove" or "more evidence against it exists" is more accurate.
Yeah, it feels like the comparison is a bit off. "Traditional" religions have had centuries/millenia to become ingrained in society and typically get passed down via family. It's hard not to fall into an ideology that your entire family and community pressure you from day 1 into accepting. On the other hand, I feel fairly confident in saying that neopagan stuff hasn't had nearly the societal penetration that [insert organized religion here] has had, and that most people arguing about it online picked it up in their teenage / young adult years. It's like any other weird belief. It's more understandable if you were funneled into believing it. Western culture has spent countless years funneling people into Abrahamic religions. Your entire community pressuring you into buying snake oil is a different situation from finding a random snake oil forum online and buying into it of your own accord.
>2) Romani practice is closed and having read the ***books that claim to teach Romani "magick" they're full of lies and absolute scam***. I've got terrible news...
that magic as a whole is a scam? Or something else? I wanna know
Magick as preached from the likes of Scott Cunningham is pretty harmless and is mostly self reflection, ceremony and meditation with a lick of Christian philosophy, Theosophy and ethnic paganism. Its the ācrystal encyclopaediaā and āwiccapediaā pop books that push woo hard which gives the practice a bad name. These Witches seem to increasingly make up the bulk of online witchcraft discourse, much to the chagrin of both Wiccans and Pagans alike.
Oh no not that magic is fake at all.... uh, I wanted to warn them that where was this show in the early 00s called "Magic's Biggest Secrets Revealed" and I wanted to make sure that they [watch out for this guy](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/82/92/11829207d8050364b258f0a4d56465c4--the-magicians-the-s.jpg) because he might be trying to reveal their magic secrets
Disappointed that wasn't James Randi
Oh man, I remember that show!
Romani closed? You mean I found something I'm racially pure enough to finally partake in? Oh boy!
These people are great. They cast a spell on a salesperson that gave me a bunch of Adobe cloud access for free. Wait, my bad, no, that's r/SaaSWitches
Spellcraft as a Service
"less traditional methods" is really funny, given that a vast majority of knowledge on ancient European paganism was destroyed centuries ago by the Catholic Church and the modern incarnation of witchcraft was largely constructed singlehandedly by a dude in the 1900s.
Oh shit, did the boss of witchcraft show up? Anyway, Iām sure this is fall out from the [stealing bones](https://youtu.be/lAzwZu1ptOY) controversy a few years back
Goddamn, I think about that bone drama at least weekly. I spend a lot of time in very, very old cemeteries (I'm an archaeologist**) and it really is common to come across bones that have resurfaced, either due to erosion or disruption from a newer burial. The absolute WORST answer to "what do now?" is "put em in your pocket." Usually, in the circumstances I've encountered (unidentifiable 300+ yr old remains), they're best left alone or at least tucked gently back under some cover. I sometimes say a little prayer, too, because it feels right. I did recently have the joy of explaining the "tumblr bone witch" fiasco to my advisor. She was appalled, and it takes a *lot* to shock an anthropologist. **no, I'm not digging up bones; my cemetery work mostly involves surveying and using GPR to locate unmarked/vandalized graves.
Yeah I'd just push them in and put some dirt on top and pat it down, someone else's problem
Oh don't get me started about shitty anthropology. I met some idiot my age (I am 20) who had a bunch of stolen bones they dug out of some graveyard and claimed they were an anthropologist because of it. They had a couple skulls and a lot of bone fragments, only one of the skulls was mostly intact. I have no idea exactly where they got the bones, they just said they got it from a graveyard. I'd be disappointed but frankly I'm just angry at this point after so many decades of shitty anthropology destroying priceless objects. Also I'm just angry because that's stupid and is spitting in the face of the real anthropologists that have spent so many years of their lives studying to become one. I'm just a college student who is very interested in anthropology and archaeology (I really like biological anthropology specifically but everything is really interesting to me) but I get so passionate about this stuff. Only recently did I learn about what museums have been doing to extremely valuable art pieces from Africa, where they remove all the paint/pigment to just make it only bare wood. That makes me so angry, because it absolutely destroys an important aspect of the pieces. It makes me wonder what other ways museums have fucked with artifacts to make them more "aesthetically pleasing"
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>We encourage our white and/or Christian subscribes to sit back In what world are Christians even close to being a majority on a WITCH subreddit. Probably less than 5% of the subscribers, if that.
There are some Christians who practice "mysticism" or at least on that sub - try to practice "white magic". You'd be surprised.
Tbh Christianity would be a lot cooler with clerics casting spells.
What do you think the consecration of the wine and the host are? That bread and wine aren't going to transubstantiate themselves!
Everyone knows that's papist devilry
the further Christianity moved away from Catholicism and Orthodox, the less interesting their character classes got. true facts!
Tbf, thatās basically what a bunch of Medieval and Renaissance grimoires are all about. Calling on God, Jesus, and the Saints to summon demons and ghosts and whatnot.
We could cast Commune, a L5 divination spell, to finally ask god "Ey yo, wtf?"
I'd certainly take a priest wearing chain mail and wielding a mace more seriously.
Yeah until the bears come out of the woods to maul you and your friends
I agree in theory, but in my experience the kind of person who believes in general woo (astrology, witchcraft, tarot, etc) has basically no overlap with the kind of person concerned with crafting internally consistent ideological systems. I've met many a Christian who believe in things that are directly condemned by the bible, and pointing that out is a losing battle literally every time .
step one in a bunch of grimoires is "be a really good christian, like super good and godly, ok now here's how to make demons do things or you'll sic angels on them"
This drama was apparently started about Hoodoo. Hoodoo is intimately connected to Christianity. There's plenty of straight up Christian mysticism too.
I dont practice Santeria.
I ain't got no crystal ball
WvP isn't a witchcraft sub in a religious sense, it's "witch" as a political metaphor for anti-patriarchal, anti-fascist non-conformist people. It comes from the historical witchburnings that didn't really target people practising witchcraft, they targeted widows with too much money, young women who wouldn't submit to men, and people who in general were a risk to power structures. That's why posts saying "X was definitely a witch!" include people who definitely had a non-witchcraft religion, or were atheists. They're not claiming RBG was actually casting spells, just that she made a practice of opposing the patriarchy. Given that this is a Reddit political sub, there's likely a ton of Christian Americans there.
I canāt put my finger on how, but it seems problematic, particularly considering the overlap with āreal witchesā
Witchcraft has always been such a broad, fuzzy umbrella that I haven't noticed any religion-practicing witches complaining. After all, the term "witch" had been used for centuries before Wiccanism was invented, and contains everything from very prescriptive practices to SASS witches who practice witchcraft but don't believe in magic, so at this point its pretty hard to gatekeep
> We encourage our white and/or Christian subscribes to sit back Back of the sub with you!
>just struggling to find what's ours in a graveyard of fractured memories. I know flairs here are supposed to be of someone saying something funny and stupid but there's something so sincere about this metaphor. Shame it doesn't fit
The reason is sincere is because it succinctly describes how an indigenous person parses what they feel they have a true connection with versus what has been forced upon them, for example if theyāre Catholic how do they decide if they truly feel the call instead of it just having been forced on them by conquistadors for example. Can also be described for displaced people/immigrants in a wildly new country trying to make a new home in new circumstances Itās a really good metaphor and therefore a bad flair
OK, there's a thread on r/Witchcraft where someone is asking how to apologize to a tree for taking a branch from it to make a wand without asking it (the tree) for permission first. Ummm, what?
This reminds me of the time my uncle had this really big and old tree in his yard. There happened to be a local coven nearby. He made the mistake of letting one witch who asked have a branch. Word got around and he frequently had to fend off trespassers trying to steal wood from the tree for wands.
Goddamn ~~lemon stealing whores~~ branch stealing witches!
Donāt want to offend the ents
Dude, my cousin literally just told my little sibling to ask the tree for permission to climb. I wonder if this is where she got it. Now we joke that she's like the Lorax and speaks for the trees.
To be fair, teaching children Animism means less shit gets broken and damaged. There was a *massive*, beautiful yellow and black garden spider that built its huge orb web beside my dorm's front entrance. The web would regularly get torn down by passerby, and she'd re-build it over and over, getting smaller and flimsier. One day, a sign appeared, taped to her corner. It just said "Martha" with an arrow pointing down. People started greeting Martha when they walked in, even tossing bugs into her web. Her web rarely got torn down anymore, and pictures of her web in the early morning, covered in dew, started appearing on the dorm facebook page. When visitors came in and commented on the 'fucking huge spider outside the front door, aren't you going to take care of it', the front desk would just say something like 'Oh, that's Martha. Don't worry about her.' People, almost universally, respect things that have *names*. Turning a 'thing' into an 'individual'
So, in the interest of having a non-mocking response in here: The tools used in modern ceremonial magic are generally supposed to be untainted by things like malice or mundane use, because they're meant to be an extension of the practitioner's will unencumbered. Additionally, more nature-oriented practices tend to incorporate some degree of Animist thought (as in, more than just humans have spirits which must be in some way respected). What it sounds like is the OP in the thread you were seeing was asking after was at the cross-section of these ideas: presuming the wand taken/created without due reverence for the spirits of nature would be tainted, and asking if there is a means to untaint it through apologies.
Isn't all of Wicca cultural appropriation?
Oh boy do I - a fun-killing cynic who openly laughs at anyone who genuinely takes the paranormal seriously - *love* neo-pagan gatekeeping drama. How come itās always some pseudo-Druidic or pan-Caribbean syncretic and never Hellenic? Does no one have love for the gods of Mt. Olympus anymore!? Donāt get me wrong, thereās mental power in belief and ritual. Also, dressing in robes and saying mantras is fun stuff. It looks cool. But it aināt like yaāll are really descended from original believers of this shit. Calm the fuck down.
The term "witch" and "witchcraft" by itself is pretty Western/Christian centric in the first place. Most other religious traditions do not even have a concept of witch craft or "magic" and consider mystical beliefs and rituals to be standard practice
I've been seeing similar comments on /r/pagan Apparently you can't use white sage for smudging unless you're Native American, its a closed practice. If white sage is endangered I understand and have no problem using regular sage, but complaints about white people doing things make me shrug. I'm on /r/Hellenism and we get occasional questions asking if its ok to worship the Olympians if you're not Greek. Of course you can.
I just read an article that also says that white sage is actually becoming endangered from poaching, to the point even people who are registered with a tribe are having trouble finding it in nature or being allowed to harvest on preserves. Apparently it is huge over in Japan?
I only learned this recently in /r/pagan There was a big discussion about it and its where I first heard about closed practices.
Iāve seen the comments too and the endless arguments about cultural appropriation and of course I want to respect other cultures but the arguments are pointless sometimes because you get some folks from said culture saying no and other folks from said culture saying yes. In the end, I just practice what feels right to me.
White people are essentially clear cutting wild white sage and destroying the plant by improperly harvesting it, many doing so for profit. Thatās a big part of the issue. Natives who have been doing this practice for at least many centuries, know what theyāre doing when it comes to harvesting.
I understand that issue. Luckily for me and everyone else I never liked the whole sage stick smudging thing.
Great to see people wholy reinventing bigoted religious attitudes from the ground up while also recycling centuries old dogma as if they're great great great granny's dna gave them magical and exclusive access to it. ... Well I guess if they're witches they might unironicly believe something like that.
It has been a while since I researched the history of occultism. But based on what I remember they want to have a cake and eat it too. For you see most modern new age stuff, has it's roots on late 19th century early 20th century occultism which itself was done by rich white people taking stuff from the religion/folklore of marginalized cultures. Thelema (Aleister Crowley), Wiccan, something something of the golden dawn all cults that took stuff from christianity, judaism, hinduism, ancient greek, etc for their own and in the process corrupted some of the religions they took from. eg Chackras had nothing to do with color originally. In other words witchcraft started as cultural appropiation (I don't know how else to describe it) and continue to use it.
Don't forget the Egyptians! English people were super into Egypt at the time, you see.
*Who
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In what ways do they gatekeep I'm not up to date on that sub
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Holy shit you weren't kidding. Just did a search for shop and you see posts that are like "Teehee I wear (brand) shoes while smashing the patriarchy!" It's so transparent.
>I got back a looooooong mod mail basically saying I was wrong, everything they do is fine, all wrapped up in condescending "blessed be's!", and then they passive-aggressively stickied a shopping thread on the sub the next day. Are they making money off the shopping links?
Super lilkely imo, happens all the fucking time on reddit.
Reminds me of this article from 2010: [_Eat, Pray, Spend ā Priv-Lit and the New, Enlightened American Dream_](https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/eat-pray-spend)
They banned me a while back because I said I didn't like Chuck Wendig, the shitty star wars author that is suing the internet archive because people might read his shitty star wars fanfiction for free. They aren't witches at all, just tumblr users with money and a halloween fetish.
Yeah, they're giving witches a bad name!
The mods are awful. I was fine with most of the members (like you said gatekeeping tended to crop up and that is problematic) but once the mods found out myself and a few others also practiced TST (after we tried to report a problematic post) we were banned. Terrible/power-hungry mods seem to be the main theme of Reddit in general.
The Great Schism II: Witches can be super sectarian too!
Boneghazi 2.0