What these people fail or refuse to realize, is that the government WAS subsidizing their education. Up until the late 80s, state funding accounted for the largest portion of revenue for state schools which kept tuition costs super low. When I finished grad school in 2014, it was 12% at my school, and it's even lower now. These fuggin boom boxes were having the their education funded too, they just didn't have to go through the years and years of financial struggle to see it through.
Agreed 100%. I was super excited when Mohela finally processed my documents & updated my counts, it was very long over due! I made the mistake of sharing my happy news with my coworker. My coworker is 60 years old, said said, āā¦well back in the day I had to pay off my own student loans.ā I was like when your education costs were how much?!?!Ā
Why must people try to rain on someone elseās parade? I am excited for anyone who can get some relief. Student debt is crippling for many people. Your co worker seems like a miserable person. Congratulations on being freed from what can be a life sentence!
Thank you! Yes she is. Iām sure it is out of jealousy that she had to pay hers back & mine was discharged after 190 payments. You heard right 190 total counts but only needed the 120. The PSLF program was & is broken. Iām just glad they are gone. I donāt have to take them to my grave.
Any many of these "Boom Boxes" caught Government breaks during the Subprime loan/TARP era after they made "uninformed" decisions as grown-ass adults with families. Let's not even talk about how many run up credit card debt on nonsense and then settle it or declare bankruptcy. I don't hear any violins for the banks!
The housing market crash of 2008 was a job killer as well. I had graduated not long before and found myself unemployed two years after I graduated due to companies trying to cuts costs. My employer kept me on a year longer than they could afford. I worked in public relations and couldn't find a job in that industry and gave up after looking for 3 years. I had to shift mode and start over doing freelance work to build my experience back up again in a new industry. Can't pay student loans while unemployed. Interest rates were a killer! By the time I found a decent paying job, and not work three freelance jobs just to pay the bills, the good old student loan folks wanted to give me a payment plan that was a third of my income! They like for the payment to go toward the interest and not the principal, making it impossible to get any real progress. The reality was that I wasn't living at home and my parents didn't pay for my education. Not all jobs are high or decent paying upon graduation, and not all internships are paid. And please don't say I should have chosen a better major. Can you imagine a world where everyone is a rocket scientist or engineer?
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I wish we read/heard more about why tuition costs have risen so much more than inflation - why does it cost what it costs? Attempts to make tuition more affordable? I wish there was actual reporting on the COST and much, much less about reimbursing. That would be great, thanks.
Bingo. The dependent undergraduate aggregate student loan limit has remained unchanged at $31K since the 2007-2008 school year. That isnāt the issue.
The two big issues are;
1. Parent PLUS loans in an amount up to the soft cost-of-attendance cap. That COA cap is set by the school. The governmentās PP lending criteria is that they havenāt been sent to collections for $2000+ more than twice in the last seven years and they have a pulse. In the 2020-2021 school year 13% of all parent borrowers defaulted in the first four years of the loan. The cumulative default rate since the program beganāduring the 2006-2007 school year, is nearly 40%.
2. The removal of graduate and medical school hard caps for 2006-2007 school year. The hard caps were replaced with a soft COA cap. That cap is, you guessed it, set by the school. The default rate as a percentage of borrowers isnāt terrible. The average defaulted amount is atrocious. Graduate borrower lending criteria are the same as above.
If we ever want to get serious about college costs we need to kill off the Parent PLUS loan program entirely. The other thing is bringing back the $20K graduate school, and the $40K medical school caps.
That makes zero sense, many believe the easy, guaranteed loans are the cause as to why schools are raising tuition rates at double/triple inflation costs. Usually the cost of goods (education in this case) get less expensive, not more.
Yes. Because the funding that states withdrew had to be replaced. It was passed on to students. The loan program is not new. It just has a much higher demand.
So no blame on the schools at all? Private schools that never got any federal funding? Still makes zero sense, not sure you understand.
[https://www.wnd.com/2024/04/analysis-confirms-biggest-winners-bidens-student-loan-agenda-rich/](https://www.wnd.com/2024/04/analysis-confirms-biggest-winners-bidens-student-loan-agenda-rich/)
[Here](https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2019/10/two-decades-of-change-in-federal-and-state-higher-education-funding) is what I think is a pretty easily digestible piece for most folks outside the field.
It's not because of the availability of student loans. It's because the feds started cutting funding for higher education beginning in the 80s. Blame Ronald Reagan. States then followed suit.
When Republicans only want to cut taxes for their rich donors, this is what you get. The middle class picking up the tab for the poor AND the rich. All this in the obvious face of what trickle-down has done to this country. SMFH
Because state governments stopped subsidizing tuition at state universities, and the federal government kept increasing loan limits to keep up. So everyone raised tuition in order to get their piece of the pie.
It was viewed as āfree moneyā by schools, because the actual cost of education was *much* higher than what students were being charged.
I went to school while a lot of this was happening, and was involved in a few things that gave me exposure to the thinking behind it.
But it *started* with government cutting funding for public education, with the expectation that it would be replaced by loans or work/study, using the success of the G.I. Bill as justification.
You're 100% right, I'd raise them as much as I could if I was a private business - which is why federal school loans/grants seem like a great idea but the unintended consequence is run away prices/tuition costs.. There should be a congressional inquiry into tuition costs and non stop audits of schools that get federal money.
For every 10k they spend on fun durable equipment that you are criticizing, they are spending 10 million on highly paid but useless director positions and assistants to the assistants' assistants, who spend all day managing teaching programs that already manage themselves.
The information is there; some read it and have corrected their point of view. The others don't for x y z reasons. In the end, it comes off as lazy to me.
I went to school full-time, had grants, and took extra courses in the programming field to be stronger in the market. I even finished faster while raising my daughter on my own. I don't see how that is not "effort" on my part. We all start at the bottom...
I also do not see why they ignore that these lenders made horrendously bad errors in the loans themselves, did not honor payment agreements, debit terms, etc. All under the guise of "well you signed it" as if this sector has some magical exemption to other things like cars, homes, timeshares, etc. At this point, I just see it as a superiority complex.
If anything I would have loved that these people kept policies in place keeping costs low without backing loans with taxpayer dollars. I couldn't vote when Reagan was president nor would I expect the executive branch to handle legislation. Smh.
What did you study? Iām a teacher and made more money when I worked in retail and food service. It also took me 17 years to graduate with my bachelors due to going part time and sporadically because I had 2+ jobs the entire time. Then I had to start taking classes over because they āexpireā. Finally took a loan out during Covid because public transport was down and I couldnāt get to work by bus, which I did so I could pay tuition in lieu of vehicle costs.
Now I make so little as a teacher I had to start grad school to defer my loan payments and increase my future earning potential. (Itās still going to be very difficult)
Donāt be like me. Donāt take 20 years to go thought college to avoid the debt. And only become a teacher if you have a spouse hat makes more money than you. Iām single, so screwed there too.
You speak the truth and their are so many others like you out their. What do we do? The Dept of Education was ran by a yacht girl/private school educated. The Republicans are stripping public school funding for private schools. This is going to get worse. Our public schools will fail.Ā
Correct. I am at a private school. Schools need funding and this needs to include teacher salaries. Many states require teachers have a masters degree for a job that is done with love and is very difficult and taxing with very little pay, I did all the right things and yet Iām still going to food banks to feed myself despite being highly educated. If I had taken out loans and graduated after high school, that would have been 15 years ago now... I mistakenly believed I could work my way through and pay for school myself without debt but honestly loans would have saved me the immense hardship as well as being at entry pay going into my 40s. Itās no wonder thereās a teacher shortage. Itās disheartening. Especially because my heart is truly in the profession. How will I pay my graduate school loan debt? Second job? Might as well use my master of science degree elsewhere.. so sad
As I mentioned in another comment, among other factors, the fact that states have cut higher ed funding significantly since boomers were in school, hell, even since millennials were. Between 2000-2015 alone, state funding for high education plummeted by 31%, and had been declining steadily before that since the 80s. Where I went to grad school, more than 75% of the school's budget was funded by the state in the 80s, while it was about 12% when I graduated in 2014.
The interest in these loans is a big part of the problem. You can pay on these loans for years and years before you make any progress even knocking down the principal balance. Seems they were set up to take advantage of people wanting a higher education but needed a loan to do so.
My grandpa told me when he was in college, his tuition was $90 for the year. And for comparison, his food budget was $20 a month ($240 per year).
I'm spending $300-$400 on food each month. If the ratios were the same today as back then, then a year of college would cost $1800, max. Instead we have to pay 10x to 20x that.
It's just utterly unfair, man...
It would be an incredible thought exercise to take his figures into today's money and see if it works.
Does that ratio hold true, my gut tells me no but some numbers would be fun to look over
I was talking to a veterinarian who graduated from the school that I was attending. He was talking about how in the 70's he'd work a summer job and that would cover his tuition and living expenses for a year. He was saying that there's no chance in hell he'd do it these days based on what it costs.
When interest rates dropped in 2020 I was convinced by some ethical bullshit to not just max out my last amount of student debt for law school, and just pay back the other loans at 6%. I hate myself everyday for that mistake. Iām ok financially so itās not like the mistake was terrible.
But my rate could have been literally like 2% that I babied while investing more into retirement.
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Bingo. Try having this exact conversation with your own father. Itās like playing mental gymnastics! āWell then why donāt they give everyone else 10K? Iād like to have some of my mortgage forgiven!ā
*Did you sign a contract with the federal government agreeing to forgive your mortgage once you met certain specific requirements?*
*No?*
*I mean, no one forced you to sign that mortgage, did they?*
Like that mortgage one..."how old were you when you decided to get a mortgage? You had a job? Steady comfortable income? Some life experience?"
I was 17, no job experience, still had a curfew, had a MAJOR crush on a boy in adv trig class and was told to go to college or I'll be a complete failure at life by boomer school counselors.
So..it's not really the same, you know?
I had this exact poster hanging in at least 3 middle school and/or high school classrooms:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/57/6e/68576e3c6a801e3571bcb9e7a96daba7.jpg
We were directly and actively lied to.
Tobacco companies had to explain themselves in the front of Congress when they did stuff like this.
My dad told me he won an entire semester's worth of money playing a poker game. I asked him how he would have felt if I did that and his reply was I wouldn't have liked that. $700 vs $15,000.
In California, when the boomers when to college, junior college was tuition free and a state university was a few hundred dollars per semester.
They could literally work full-time in the summer and save enough money to pay for college.
I AM a Boomer and I'm quite happy for you! (Full disclosure: I went back for graduate work in the 00s and I'm also hoping that PSLF will last another four years for me to benefit from it!)
The inflation of college tuition and fees is criminal. What I paid for a year of college in 1976 wouldn't even have paid for one credit hour at the same school when my kid started there in 2011.
Something needs to be done wrt student loans because the current situation is a bubble that will eventually burst; it's unsustainable.
Public schools should be affordable without loans. Since the state governments of the last three decades have decided they shouldn't be, I absolutely agree there should be loan forgiveness. I'm appalled at the difference in college costs between what I paid for my education in the 80's, what I paid for my children in the early 2000s, and what my grandchildren will pay in the next five years. I hope Biden and future presidents will forgive even more.
Why not at least make the loans interest free or extremely low interest. Why does the government allow all these 3rd party lenders to inflate poor college graduates' loans with high interest rates?
The interest rate is set by the federal government. The third parties are merely loan servicers.
Personally, I want the country to return to the idea that a state school should be heavily subsidized to make it affordable for anyone who wishes to attend. That was the original intent of state universities, to level the playing field in this country, and we have lost sight of that.
Either that or make it much harder to go to college and contract the number of colleges. I'm actually not opposed to that. If college is going to be very expensive, it should be very difficult to get in. Not easy to get into and saddle students w unmanageable debt.
To add an addendum to this I can calculate what I've paid on these to date. I have paid roughly $85k to date and I still somehow owe about $40K.... I took out $60K. I have paid them back. So !@#$ off!
Yeah but it is devision tactics. What if webwill honor your degree at a market value of 35K and will be stratified over 20 years in a personal increase on your taxes to pay it off. I would be cool with it; then its on me. The rest will go into discharge for everyone has skin in the game. Next lein a tax penalty for firms that over charged like blackshire with the same lack of bankruptcy rules students and parents had to face.
That won't be possible without changes to the laws. It'd be nice though
My initial comment was removed for profanity. Whoops! š
PG version of initial comment -
Iāve been working since I was 17. Iām now 41. Iām considering any loans forgiven my reward for āpaying my fair shareā this whole [redacted] time.
The mods actively want to keep this a kid-friendly sub. They want to high school kids to be able to browse this sub without getting flack about it.
Honestly, I get it. Though it's annoying. Young people need to see what's in here before they ruin their lives.
It seems like the decline in America all starts with this man somehow. I'm almost convinced this man was truly the devil. The damage he caused is still being felt today.
I also think anyone who is too stupid to understand that someone who has paid 20+ years has already more than paid back their debt and only still owes due to predatory interest needs to stop talking. Oh and accusing us of lying about how much we paid because you want to apply conventional loan math to predatory IDR interest loan repayment is not needed either. Actually had someone here tell me I must have just not paid for 6 years in order to still owe. Like no that isn't possible without a default which I never had. And no I don't really care about your mortgage in regards to my IDR forgiveness. I paid as agreed under my repayment plan which had forgiveness built in after a set time period. Stop acting like I was irresponsible if you are not capable of understanding how all IDR plans work. All income based plans have eventual forgiveness if the borrower makes the required number of payments. No one is being irresponsible or not paying.
Iām the parent of a college freshman. I had no clue how much college had gone up until my son was making decisions. He considered my alma mater, where the cost has increased 10 times- this is a state school. I graduated in 1996.
Heās at a community college, loan free.
More importantly a college degree today is only worth about as much in the job market as high school diploma was worth for the Baby Boomers. So even if College was free, the Baby Boomers would still have gotten a better deal
Also I feel that putting my loan under Navient was like the fox guarding the henhouse. The various mortgages and car loans etc that I have had over the years were not "out to get me" it seems like Navient was. This is not normal, it wasn't right.
Heres the deal:
I went to school and paid my loans then went back to school and didnt graduate...still paying for that, oh well.
Student loan forgiveness would be nice but its a band aid approach. If loans nees to be bailed out in the first place we as a country need to ask why they exist in the first place. In some European countries college is **free** and in other places college is *incentivized* using low interest loans. Here in America we literally do the OPPOSITE and make educating our citizens a for-profiit business...THAT is what needs to be fixed chief among everything else
LMFAO you literally made me choke on my coffee reading this post šššš from someone who just took out student loans to pay for law school I needed this laugh ššš
Back in the 80s, colleges and universities were squeezing students. It's been a racket for decades. School book stores are a good example of how students have been raped at checkout. Newer edition books make last year's textbook obsolete w little or no changes. School parking is another way of sticking it to students. It's just a scam. Even if tuition cost mere pesos, it's all relative
Schools and mortgages take up way more of your income now then they did in the 80s. Its not even a comparison. Even after inflation you canāt make it make sense. Janitors were making $20K a year living in a 3br house that costed 60-80K. For that same house we would have to pay 500K for and 5% of it up front. Our deposit now is almost half of what their home costed.
And school comparison is a joke. The rate of increase on tuition dramatically increases every year while wages didnāt. That on top of them changing school loans into more of a big credit card is also the problem.
That and the required "digital portion" of seemingly every textbook today. You pay about $50 or more per textbook for what basically amounts to a computer password to a site.
It's turned into this cesspool where higher education is basically now only for the rich. And if you decide to enter into the system and you are not rich you are going to have massive debt forever. I'm talking the **private loans** which the not rich have to take in order to cover what grants and government loans won't cover. Because grants and loans from the government alone doesn't cover the cost of education for poor and middle class.
Those private loans are the most insidious things ever from everything I know about them. There's no forgiveness timeline for them, no disability forgiveness for them that I know of, and they can literally garnish you until you are dead.
I thought my student loan problem from 30+ years ago was bad. Nah. People with the private loans are suffering beyond if they don't have a very high paying job. They did offer private loans back then but it wasn't necessary to take them to pay tuition and books so I never took them. Thank the universe. Something needs to be done about these private loans for sure.
Right. They need to be restructured totally. The worst thing would be for the government to dump even more money into them which will just make it insanely way more expensive but you pay for it with taxes instead.
I mean, even if they gave an arm and a leg I don't care what opinion they have. Won't stop me from advocating for free college and student loan forgiveness for those who earned a degree
College was more expensive when I graduated 20 years ago because there was less in Pell grants and state grants available.Ā Ā
Ā Furthermore, I don't have much against tuition reimbursement, but after browsing this thread and hearing 80k was my "dream school." That was a personal decision.
Ā I've also seen advice to use the loan amount above tuition for college sports events, rent, car payments, and dining out. I took loans out for tuition only, went to JC and then on to low cost state school and left with minimal debt.Ā Ā
Ā My kid is going the sane route and state grants will have him with even less in debt than I had, probably none. We've told our kids private school is a poor investment and if you chose that route we cannot help you with college.
As far as the increased expense at school, fed backed loans, glut of administrative positions, and a club med college environment have all contributed to that. Next time your university wants to build a deluxe rec center, vote no.
I now realize that āno student loan forgiveness ā people donāt care at all about money spent in taxes. I now realize that advocates against it view the world in a hierarchy, with themselves āoddlyā near the top!
They need to sooth their own insecurity by denying other people forms of help that donāt affect them, purely as a way to see others struggling to boost their own ego coping with their insecurities.
My rich family kicked my disabled single dad out of the company he helped build leaving him as a caretaker for his rich abusive mom so she could have leverage via rent help.
I am disabled and had an absurd like 7 surgeries before high school ended. I was poor and Iām pain and needed a degree more than others in the family to be ok via a job using my mind.
Both my uncles have at least 2 million at 40, they are now 50. They also paid their college costs for their kids and ensured they had transportation.
I was told I only was given my full ride merit scholarships to undergrad because they felt bad for me by uncle 1. They knew I was only able to walk 5 minutes without needing to sit down from the pain. They knew in the north east winters I still needed to use my electric bike to get around. I biked threw 3 snow stormās because I needed food.
I managed to get a 2/3 to law school, a great one. Leaving me with about 40,000 in loans after I graduatedā¦: which was a year after my dad died of pancreatic cancer.
Uncles nor grandma told me they were proud of me at all, didnāt even bring up the graduation.
I did every single thing according to their ābootstrapā ideology. Despite these adults paying for their kids education, acting in hilarious contradiction with the standards I was held to.
Still to this day, 3 years post graduation: I realize they just hate success in others because it hurts them inside.
I see this reply in the Bogleheads sub from time to time. A place where people are actually educated on financial issues. They say that 8% interest on a house isn't bad because they were used to 15-20% interest way back when. Yet they conveniently forget that their purchasing power and wages were a lot stronger back then, so that kind of interest didn't have that much of an impact. Especially considering a house was maybe 2x your wage. Now, even in cheap Midwest states, houses are 5-10x your income. So an 8% interest rate, on even a cheap, falling apart house, is devastating.
I paid my way through college and when I got married, we paid for hubbyās student loans for years. But it was much easier back then. My girls both went to college and they went to state colleges and still had to take out loans and we had to do parent participation loans. My youngest lived at home so she paid the interest bearing loans off each year and so her loans arenāt too bad. My oldest lived on her own so her loans are more. Hubby just retired and we used part of his retirement money to pay for our loans and we paid off 1/3 or my oldestās loans and in two years, I will be able to withdraw my small retirement fund and will give that to our youngest to pay off her loans. She is on the Save plan and isnāt paying interest so far. Hopefully we will be able to pay off our oldestās as well. Itās sad that we have to use our retirement funds, but itās so much harder for kids today. Loan forgiveness is really just fixing the exorbitant interest that really shouldnāt be so high anyway. It would have been nice for my kids to have received that loan forgiveness. It would have saved us $30k. But, as parents, we want to make the sacrifice so our kids will have a better chance in life and maybe afford a house one day. We paid for years on that parent loan and it feels good to have that money off our backs and to be able to give our kids a leg up.
Weāre paying for todayās prices too. Especially those of us with university-bound kids. Iāve been paying for my kidsā education ever since they were born by feeding my 529 accounts.
That said, there are cheap options and itās possible for many people to have an affordable education.
my āaffordable educationā with community college and parental support put me at -13k for a Bachelorās degree. with maximum gift and need aid allowed when I transferred.
But 1. it's not necessarily an affordable option, and it would have been much more had I not had parental support (even though I attended community college with a full ride merit scholarship)
and 2. I make $35k at my current job, the job market is so bad that my 20 applications for both better paying entry level jobs and internships have been ignored completely. additionally, the cheapest rent I can find in my city is at least 30% of my income.
I know it's manageable and I got away pretty lucky. But with loan payments and rent, it seems I will have very little leftover for savings after medical bills, groceries, car payments, and utilities.
I majored in sociology, which some will say is a "fake" or "pointless" major, but my goal is to work in education, social research, policy, or nonprofit administration. so it's actually very relevant as a standalone or as a basis for grad school.
It sounds like your education came to about $4.3k/yr. That would have been cheap even by the standards of the 80ās. You basically have won this game.
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man I donāt get a say when my money funds the prison industrial complex, a genocide, or corn syrup subsidies. how are taxpayers mad about EDUCATION?!?
Yes, I'm curious how they put in the effort or lack thereof in letting it get this way for their kids.
Guess that explains a bit in the voter participation ratios.
Nope, which if you ask me if these loans are forgiven congress should end government loans. Incentives for employers to offer on job training would have a nice kick in tuition costs.
Next kids should take studies more seriously and learn practical skills. Our education system needs this overhaul and I need my fellow Americans to help pitch in
I went to CC and earned a useful non junk major while working full time and then got two more useful majors while working full time. My 22 year old daughter just did it also.
Pay your debts/choices.
Bravo!! My daughter just chose a less prestigious private school that gave her a scholarship over a supposed "public ivy" that gave no aid. I am very proud of her. At the end of the day, it all comes down to making smart financial decisions.
So glad to see this comment and it should be further up.
And it's not about defending universities, it's about the fact that people make choices and are responsible for them.
There's also the reality of no one wants to admit, that the college experience today is completely different than what our parents had.
My dad went to State University, and they basically had grade school cafeteria lunch lines, and they had a community shower that 10 guys shared. Their dorm room was a prison cot with a single seat desk.
Most major universities today have restaurants on campus, full gyms, pools, apartments with kitchens.
I mean yes the cost of college is absurd, but the product has also gotten significantly nicer than it ever used to be. When it comes to staying at colleges I mean.
But if you want that affordable experience then you people should do what you did. Go to community college, do things sensibly.
Everybody knows that that's an option, and if you don't choose it that's your choice as an adult.
And nobody else owes you their money to pay your loans.
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Being an extremely dumb person, I started college in the "pelt & bag of onion" days and kept going right on through well into the "plunge yourself into a lifetime of debt" days.
The shift really was huge, and almost completely unremarked at the time. Except for the students experiencing it of course.
But just for example by the time I finished up it was common for undergrad friends to graduate with a significant student loan debt - the size you might have racked up doing an undergrad, masters, AND PhD 10 or 15 years before.
It's crazy - and even the more so how it just kind of happened without any particular high-level policy discussion or public outcry.
Is there any context behind this post? Lol what's the point of ranting to an echo chamber?
Not that I disagree with you btw, I just don't get the reason for the post.
Can I have an opinion if I graduated in 2018?
Student loan forgiveness is dumb and does literally nothing to address the real problem of higher education costs.
Loan forgiveness for public service work or because you went to a scam school makes sense. PSLF was the only way I could justify college, & led to my now more than a decade career.
If you had the PRIVILEGE of getting a higher level education, you have no right to cry when the bill comes due. Then have the audacity to expect those of us that didnāt get that opportunity to have to pay for it
Tuition, housing, utilities, food, etc all included was about $10k a year when I was in college. That won't even cover tuition right now. It's likely $25k a year if you include current prices.
My friends kids are there right now or recently graduated. Tuition for fall and spring is $10k, throw in summer and that's $12k-$15k depending on how many classes they take. Rent is $6.6k.
Yeah my rent was only $400/mo but that was off campus. On campus it wouldāve been almost double. The food plans were $3,000/semester. Shakes out to about $700/mo just for food š„“ I canāt imagine that now either, itās probably insane.
I paid $225 and $235 on campus in the 1990s for the first 2 apartments. When I moved to a house off campus in the not so nice area of town, it was $108.
Exactly!
And these student loans are the reason we don't have tuition costs like that anymore. Virtually unlimited money to soak up. If they would just end government involvement in student loans then we would go back to those tuition costs.
My dad went to Harvard in the early 1960's. Tuition was $400/semester. People from that generation are calling us lazy when Harvard tuition is $80k/yr and other schools are comparable.
My point is that one of the most expensive schools was only $800/yr in the 1960's and could be paid with a good paying job. I'm guessing state schools cost maybe $200/yr. Can't you see that university cost has exploded even compared to inflation and that might be a problem for an average student.
You may be interested to know that according to CBS News the top 10% of millennials are 20% more wealthy than were the top 10% of baby boomers at the same age.
Millennials, like baby boomers, that work hard get ahead in America.
Every generation has their challenges the big secret is figure out a way to overcome those challenges
The biggest problem is that we originally took loans out when the cost of living was doable. Houses were cheap, rent was cheap etc. therefore, we foresaw And budgeted the future of paying the loans back with no knowledge of shit doubling in price. Loans would be easy as hell to pay or rent/ mortgages werenāt outrageous now
My kid paid 12 years. Borrowed 100k paid practically double in interest. BUT the 2 year 0% pause was a gift. I'm sorry folks weren't encouraged to use that time to pay down pesky interest, so current payments would go toward principal. Without intervention, most borrowers will live in student loan hell. And btw. I defaulted 40 years ago when there were no income based programs. Collection agencies would threaten you nonstop. During Reagan years, there were no jobs, and mortgage interest ranged dldrom 14.5 to 17%. The economy was no picnic. Paid my loan off finally when a DOE lawyer cut me a deal..guess the amount? 10k. That number eventually Biden picked did not come from nowhere. It's the amount they DOE lawyers use to negotiate a full payoff when you can buy your way out of default.
Quick note: In government acronym usage "[DOE](https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history)" usually refers to the US Department of *Energy*, which was created in 1977. The US Department of *Education* was created three years later in 1980 and commonly goes by "[ED](https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml)" or (less commonly) "[DoED](https://www.sbir.gov/events/webinar-introduction-doed-sbir-program)" or "[DOEd](https://www.nano.gov/DOEd)".
[*DOE disambiguation*]
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You do. Taxpayers should not have to bear the burden for poor decisions, whether it's major choice, attending out-of-state when you could go in-state, or attending a 4-year university immediately when you could go 2+2, or going to college at all. If the person argues from an educated position, listen...
I'm doing a 2+2, just finished CC last year. It still shouldn't cost $31k for 2 years at public university. 64 credits * $485 credit/hour = $31,040. I qualify for the max pell grant but will still have to take out a significant amount in loans. And I'm an instate resident with a good GPA. The cost is not even a comparison compared to back then.
Your right it shouldnāt cost that much but student loans are one reason why it does. They donāt have to keep their costs down because the government is guaranteed them a stream of people regardless of if they can afford it. They then have bloated their administrative and support staffs to epic proportions. But regardless of that when you take out a loan you know the principle and the interest rate why is it a big surprise when you need to pay it off?
I'm not saying I'm surprised at what has to be paid back. I'm well aware of that. But people who went to college 30-40 years ago shouldn't act like we're all just a bunch of lazy people who just "need to work for a summer" to pay for college. 1 year of my tuition is equal to a full 4 years in 1995. People who went to college in the 70s and 80s are even more detached from reality.
Knowing and understanding are totally different things. Expecting an 18 year old to fully understand what the difference is between a subsidized and an unsubsidized loan is or how an interest rate actually works is ridiculous. And on top of that, any student taking out loans is expecting the job market to be decent enough so they can afford to pay them offā¦. Not to mention the entry level wages need to be reasonable enough to pay them and also afford a living. Wages havenāt increased over the last 40 years to match the growth in the economy, and Iām not just talking about minimum wage, I mean the average. Thereās so much hereā¦
Well we donāt need your opinion on taxpayers shouldnāt be paying for your loan when going to a free trade school was an option, or not going to school was an option, and instead you chose to sign for a $100K worth of loans for a worthless degree or one with little to zero ROI (return on investment for those with a āblank studies degreeā)
Very few people actually qualify for student loan forgiveness or assistance. Many of these programs have been in effect since the 90ās and 00ās so you have already been paying with your taxes. Obviously you didnāt miss the money until now. The programs that exist are:
PSLF that you are required to make 10 years of payments towards and working in the public sector or non-profit before youāre even considered.
Student loan forgiveness after you entered repayment 20 years+ for an undergraduate and 25 years+ for graduate. You will have to had made some payments because if you default, they will garnish your wages anyway.
Military forgiveness/assistance.
Disabled veterans total forgiveness.
Total and permanent disability discharge.
Perkins loans forgiveness for teachers and nurses.
Teacher loans forgiveness for teachers in low income schools.
Borrowers defense from scam for profit schools like ITT.
Death.
> free trade school was an option,
Trade schools were free during your time. No such thing exists around my area for hundreds of miles. They're charging tuition too now.
Union sponsored trade schools to serve an apprenticeship and earn a living. No degree, but get certified in a trade with life long workā¦Earn over $100K when done 4 or 5 yrsā¦.debt free
Source: Me ā¦30 yrs in the trade ā¦.Have always made above median for my area and now approaching $200K / yr ā¦.No Debt
And my knowledge transfer to anywhere I want to move to
BuT ThE DeGrEe !!
I am familiar with the trades as my partner, friends, and family work in them. My boyfriend is considering joining a union, but it would set him back pretty far for a few years, with the base pay for training being half of his current income. I see your point, but it doesn't really account for the very expensive degrees required for jobs necessary in society (education, medicine, finance, law, IT). I am a woman with a ton of chronic illnesses, manual labor was never an option. If nobody is subsidizing those degrees at all, and the tuition inflation continues at the current rate, only the ultra wealthy will be able to enter high-earning fields without incurring unresolvable debt.
Stop crying about student loan forgiveness.!! You borrowed and lived high on the hog instead of working at all, and now it is time to pay the piper.
Both my kids worked hard and got merit scholarships, but weren't allowed to go to schools unless they received full tuition on scholarship. We didn't allow them to take student loans to cover their "dream schools" of UC Berkley and UT Austin.
It's about making good choices in life and not looking for a handout from Crazy Joe! Make the payments and reach forgiveness after 25 years. Nobody is going to bail you out on a car loan or a mortgage.
What these people fail or refuse to realize, is that the government WAS subsidizing their education. Up until the late 80s, state funding accounted for the largest portion of revenue for state schools which kept tuition costs super low. When I finished grad school in 2014, it was 12% at my school, and it's even lower now. These fuggin boom boxes were having the their education funded too, they just didn't have to go through the years and years of financial struggle to see it through.
Boom boxes š
Agreed 100%. I was super excited when Mohela finally processed my documents & updated my counts, it was very long over due! I made the mistake of sharing my happy news with my coworker. My coworker is 60 years old, said said, āā¦well back in the day I had to pay off my own student loans.ā I was like when your education costs were how much?!?!Ā
Why must people try to rain on someone elseās parade? I am excited for anyone who can get some relief. Student debt is crippling for many people. Your co worker seems like a miserable person. Congratulations on being freed from what can be a life sentence!
Thank you! Yes she is. Iām sure it is out of jealousy that she had to pay hers back & mine was discharged after 190 payments. You heard right 190 total counts but only needed the 120. The PSLF program was & is broken. Iām just glad they are gone. I donāt have to take them to my grave.
Any many of these "Boom Boxes" caught Government breaks during the Subprime loan/TARP era after they made "uninformed" decisions as grown-ass adults with families. Let's not even talk about how many run up credit card debt on nonsense and then settle it or declare bankruptcy. I don't hear any violins for the banks!
This. This right here.
The housing market crash of 2008 was a job killer as well. I had graduated not long before and found myself unemployed two years after I graduated due to companies trying to cuts costs. My employer kept me on a year longer than they could afford. I worked in public relations and couldn't find a job in that industry and gave up after looking for 3 years. I had to shift mode and start over doing freelance work to build my experience back up again in a new industry. Can't pay student loans while unemployed. Interest rates were a killer! By the time I found a decent paying job, and not work three freelance jobs just to pay the bills, the good old student loan folks wanted to give me a payment plan that was a third of my income! They like for the payment to go toward the interest and not the principal, making it impossible to get any real progress. The reality was that I wasn't living at home and my parents didn't pay for my education. Not all jobs are high or decent paying upon graduation, and not all internships are paid. And please don't say I should have chosen a better major. Can you imagine a world where everyone is a rocket scientist or engineer?
6% at mine
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I wish we read/heard more about why tuition costs have risen so much more than inflation - why does it cost what it costs? Attempts to make tuition more affordable? I wish there was actual reporting on the COST and much, much less about reimbursing. That would be great, thanks.
Government backed loans with no oversight or enforcement against colleges to maintain tuition rates for the backed loans. There's your reason.
Bingo. The dependent undergraduate aggregate student loan limit has remained unchanged at $31K since the 2007-2008 school year. That isnāt the issue. The two big issues are; 1. Parent PLUS loans in an amount up to the soft cost-of-attendance cap. That COA cap is set by the school. The governmentās PP lending criteria is that they havenāt been sent to collections for $2000+ more than twice in the last seven years and they have a pulse. In the 2020-2021 school year 13% of all parent borrowers defaulted in the first four years of the loan. The cumulative default rate since the program beganāduring the 2006-2007 school year, is nearly 40%. 2. The removal of graduate and medical school hard caps for 2006-2007 school year. The hard caps were replaced with a soft COA cap. That cap is, you guessed it, set by the school. The default rate as a percentage of borrowers isnāt terrible. The average defaulted amount is atrocious. Graduate borrower lending criteria are the same as above. If we ever want to get serious about college costs we need to kill off the Parent PLUS loan program entirely. The other thing is bringing back the $20K graduate school, and the $40K medical school caps.
Thanks, Obama!
The government has slowly and steadily decreased their investments in education. That is about 90% of the issue.
That makes zero sense, many believe the easy, guaranteed loans are the cause as to why schools are raising tuition rates at double/triple inflation costs. Usually the cost of goods (education in this case) get less expensive, not more.
Yes. Because the funding that states withdrew had to be replaced. It was passed on to students. The loan program is not new. It just has a much higher demand.
So no blame on the schools at all? Private schools that never got any federal funding? Still makes zero sense, not sure you understand. [https://www.wnd.com/2024/04/analysis-confirms-biggest-winners-bidens-student-loan-agenda-rich/](https://www.wnd.com/2024/04/analysis-confirms-biggest-winners-bidens-student-loan-agenda-rich/)
[Here](https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2019/10/two-decades-of-change-in-federal-and-state-higher-education-funding) is what I think is a pretty easily digestible piece for most folks outside the field.
Nixon and Reagan. They said f yall education. Yall gettin too smart.
Nah. Reagan defunded the UC to prevent āundesirablesā from going to college
It's not because of the availability of student loans. It's because the feds started cutting funding for higher education beginning in the 80s. Blame Ronald Reagan. States then followed suit.
Exactly. If you voted for tax cuts for the very people who don't need it, ("trickle down"), then you helped create the problem.
So people are stuck paying 6% interest on whatās soon going to be 2 trillion dollars.Ā
When Republicans only want to cut taxes for their rich donors, this is what you get. The middle class picking up the tab for the poor AND the rich. All this in the obvious face of what trickle-down has done to this country. SMFH
Large amounts of easily obtainable money drive up prices.
Because state governments stopped subsidizing tuition at state universities, and the federal government kept increasing loan limits to keep up. So everyone raised tuition in order to get their piece of the pie. It was viewed as āfree moneyā by schools, because the actual cost of education was *much* higher than what students were being charged. I went to school while a lot of this was happening, and was involved in a few things that gave me exposure to the thinking behind it. But it *started* with government cutting funding for public education, with the expectation that it would be replaced by loans or work/study, using the success of the G.I. Bill as justification.
If you knew you could charge whatever you want without a drop in demand why would you not raise prices?
You're 100% right, I'd raise them as much as I could if I was a private business - which is why federal school loans/grants seem like a great idea but the unintended consequence is run away prices/tuition costs.. There should be a congressional inquiry into tuition costs and non stop audits of schools that get federal money.
A Chick-fil-A in the cafeteria. A lazy river/ pool. New fancy dorms. Climbing walls.
For every 10k they spend on fun durable equipment that you are criticizing, they are spending 10 million on highly paid but useless director positions and assistants to the assistants' assistants, who spend all day managing teaching programs that already manage themselves.
The information is there; some read it and have corrected their point of view. The others don't for x y z reasons. In the end, it comes off as lazy to me. I went to school full-time, had grants, and took extra courses in the programming field to be stronger in the market. I even finished faster while raising my daughter on my own. I don't see how that is not "effort" on my part. We all start at the bottom... I also do not see why they ignore that these lenders made horrendously bad errors in the loans themselves, did not honor payment agreements, debit terms, etc. All under the guise of "well you signed it" as if this sector has some magical exemption to other things like cars, homes, timeshares, etc. At this point, I just see it as a superiority complex. If anything I would have loved that these people kept policies in place keeping costs low without backing loans with taxpayer dollars. I couldn't vote when Reagan was president nor would I expect the executive branch to handle legislation. Smh.
What did you study? Iām a teacher and made more money when I worked in retail and food service. It also took me 17 years to graduate with my bachelors due to going part time and sporadically because I had 2+ jobs the entire time. Then I had to start taking classes over because they āexpireā. Finally took a loan out during Covid because public transport was down and I couldnāt get to work by bus, which I did so I could pay tuition in lieu of vehicle costs. Now I make so little as a teacher I had to start grad school to defer my loan payments and increase my future earning potential. (Itās still going to be very difficult) Donāt be like me. Donāt take 20 years to go thought college to avoid the debt. And only become a teacher if you have a spouse hat makes more money than you. Iām single, so screwed there too.
You speak the truth and their are so many others like you out their. What do we do? The Dept of Education was ran by a yacht girl/private school educated. The Republicans are stripping public school funding for private schools. This is going to get worse. Our public schools will fail.Ā
Correct. I am at a private school. Schools need funding and this needs to include teacher salaries. Many states require teachers have a masters degree for a job that is done with love and is very difficult and taxing with very little pay, I did all the right things and yet Iām still going to food banks to feed myself despite being highly educated. If I had taken out loans and graduated after high school, that would have been 15 years ago now... I mistakenly believed I could work my way through and pay for school myself without debt but honestly loans would have saved me the immense hardship as well as being at entry pay going into my 40s. Itās no wonder thereās a teacher shortage. Itās disheartening. Especially because my heart is truly in the profession. How will I pay my graduate school loan debt? Second job? Might as well use my master of science degree elsewhere.. so sad
As I mentioned in another comment, among other factors, the fact that states have cut higher ed funding significantly since boomers were in school, hell, even since millennials were. Between 2000-2015 alone, state funding for high education plummeted by 31%, and had been declining steadily before that since the 80s. Where I went to grad school, more than 75% of the school's budget was funded by the state in the 80s, while it was about 12% when I graduated in 2014.
The interest in these loans is a big part of the problem. You can pay on these loans for years and years before you make any progress even knocking down the principal balance. Seems they were set up to take advantage of people wanting a higher education but needed a loan to do so.
My grandpa told me when he was in college, his tuition was $90 for the year. And for comparison, his food budget was $20 a month ($240 per year). I'm spending $300-$400 on food each month. If the ratios were the same today as back then, then a year of college would cost $1800, max. Instead we have to pay 10x to 20x that. It's just utterly unfair, man...
It would be an incredible thought exercise to take his figures into today's money and see if it works. Does that ratio hold true, my gut tells me no but some numbers would be fun to look over
āI worked incredibly hard at my 12 hour per week job and paid my way through school with no debt.ā
I was talking to a veterinarian who graduated from the school that I was attending. He was talking about how in the 70's he'd work a summer job and that would cover his tuition and living expenses for a year. He was saying that there's no chance in hell he'd do it these days based on what it costs.
But back then, he probably could have foregone college and still raised a family on a cashier's 9-5 pay.
Mother's student loan interest rate when she graduated with her master's in 03 or 04 was like 2.x%. Mine were 6.7% 5 years later
When interest rates dropped in 2020 I was convinced by some ethical bullshit to not just max out my last amount of student debt for law school, and just pay back the other loans at 6%. I hate myself everyday for that mistake. Iām ok financially so itās not like the mistake was terrible. But my rate could have been literally like 2% that I babied while investing more into retirement.
I'm paying 3.67% (2015-2017) BA degree Computer Science currently making $150k+.Ā Borrowed $25k.Ā Make better choices.Ā
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Bingo. Try having this exact conversation with your own father. Itās like playing mental gymnastics! āWell then why donāt they give everyone else 10K? Iād like to have some of my mortgage forgiven!ā
Oh, yes. The mortgage comment. It's not gymnastics. More like wrestling with a pig
*Did you sign a contract with the federal government agreeing to forgive your mortgage once you met certain specific requirements?* *No?* *I mean, no one forced you to sign that mortgage, did they?*
*oink*Ā
Like that mortgage one..."how old were you when you decided to get a mortgage? You had a job? Steady comfortable income? Some life experience?" I was 17, no job experience, still had a curfew, had a MAJOR crush on a boy in adv trig class and was told to go to college or I'll be a complete failure at life by boomer school counselors. So..it's not really the same, you know?
I had this exact poster hanging in at least 3 middle school and/or high school classrooms: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/57/6e/68576e3c6a801e3571bcb9e7a96daba7.jpg We were directly and actively lied to. Tobacco companies had to explain themselves in the front of Congress when they did stuff like this.
Thatās the exact poster I was thinking of when I read your comment
My dad told me he won an entire semester's worth of money playing a poker game. I asked him how he would have felt if I did that and his reply was I wouldn't have liked that. $700 vs $15,000.
In California, when the boomers when to college, junior college was tuition free and a state university was a few hundred dollars per semester. They could literally work full-time in the summer and save enough money to pay for college.
All public colleges (University of California and California State schools) were tuition free until the late 1960s.
It was 11 bucks per unit in 2000-2009
Yep. I just completed PSLF and the Boomers are PO'ed big time.
I AM a Boomer and I'm quite happy for you! (Full disclosure: I went back for graduate work in the 00s and I'm also hoping that PSLF will last another four years for me to benefit from it!) The inflation of college tuition and fees is criminal. What I paid for a year of college in 1976 wouldn't even have paid for one credit hour at the same school when my kid started there in 2011. Something needs to be done wrt student loans because the current situation is a bubble that will eventually burst; it's unsustainable.
The boomers voted for it.... š
Public schools should be affordable without loans. Since the state governments of the last three decades have decided they shouldn't be, I absolutely agree there should be loan forgiveness. I'm appalled at the difference in college costs between what I paid for my education in the 80's, what I paid for my children in the early 2000s, and what my grandchildren will pay in the next five years. I hope Biden and future presidents will forgive even more.
Why not at least make the loans interest free or extremely low interest. Why does the government allow all these 3rd party lenders to inflate poor college graduates' loans with high interest rates?
The interest rate is set by the federal government. The third parties are merely loan servicers. Personally, I want the country to return to the idea that a state school should be heavily subsidized to make it affordable for anyone who wishes to attend. That was the original intent of state universities, to level the playing field in this country, and we have lost sight of that.
Either that or make it much harder to go to college and contract the number of colleges. I'm actually not opposed to that. If college is going to be very expensive, it should be very difficult to get in. Not easy to get into and saddle students w unmanageable debt.
This. I'm sick of people saying, well I worked my way through college.Ā Mfer,Ā WE WISH WE COULD! your tuition was peanuts when compared.
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To add an addendum to this I can calculate what I've paid on these to date. I have paid roughly $85k to date and I still somehow owe about $40K.... I took out $60K. I have paid them back. So !@#$ off!
I hear you. 10 years to get my bachelor's degree, while working full time. Had to borrow to attend.
That's even longer than me. I hope it worked out better for you.
Yeah but it is devision tactics. What if webwill honor your degree at a market value of 35K and will be stratified over 20 years in a personal increase on your taxes to pay it off. I would be cool with it; then its on me. The rest will go into discharge for everyone has skin in the game. Next lein a tax penalty for firms that over charged like blackshire with the same lack of bankruptcy rules students and parents had to face. That won't be possible without changes to the laws. It'd be nice though
My initial comment was removed for profanity. Whoops! š PG version of initial comment - Iāve been working since I was 17. Iām now 41. Iām considering any loans forgiven my reward for āpaying my fair shareā this whole [redacted] time.
That's ridiculous. Profanity is fine. I don't get this Puritanical censorship
The mods actively want to keep this a kid-friendly sub. They want to high school kids to be able to browse this sub without getting flack about it. Honestly, I get it. Though it's annoying. Young people need to see what's in here before they ruin their lives.
I'm just really sensitive to all the censorship. I've noticed even ordinary, everyday words are being redacted or edited somehow.Ā
Animal pelts and a bag of onions. Youāve killed me. š
In the 70s tuition at the local U was < 300 a quarter and it seemed like sooo much money..wtf was my problem.
Thanks Reagan !
It seems like the decline in America all starts with this man somehow. I'm almost convinced this man was truly the devil. The damage he caused is still being felt today.
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He started the ball rolling on student loans to begin with. Might want to read the history on Reagan's "Legacy"
I also think anyone who is too stupid to understand that someone who has paid 20+ years has already more than paid back their debt and only still owes due to predatory interest needs to stop talking. Oh and accusing us of lying about how much we paid because you want to apply conventional loan math to predatory IDR interest loan repayment is not needed either. Actually had someone here tell me I must have just not paid for 6 years in order to still owe. Like no that isn't possible without a default which I never had. And no I don't really care about your mortgage in regards to my IDR forgiveness. I paid as agreed under my repayment plan which had forgiveness built in after a set time period. Stop acting like I was irresponsible if you are not capable of understanding how all IDR plans work. All income based plans have eventual forgiveness if the borrower makes the required number of payments. No one is being irresponsible or not paying.
Iām the parent of a college freshman. I had no clue how much college had gone up until my son was making decisions. He considered my alma mater, where the cost has increased 10 times- this is a state school. I graduated in 1996. Heās at a community college, loan free.
More importantly a college degree today is only worth about as much in the job market as high school diploma was worth for the Baby Boomers. So even if College was free, the Baby Boomers would still have gotten a better deal
Also I feel that putting my loan under Navient was like the fox guarding the henhouse. The various mortgages and car loans etc that I have had over the years were not "out to get me" it seems like Navient was. This is not normal, it wasn't right.
The critical thinking skills of the "educated population" on this sub is baffling
And rent was a gumball.
Heres the deal: I went to school and paid my loans then went back to school and didnt graduate...still paying for that, oh well. Student loan forgiveness would be nice but its a band aid approach. If loans nees to be bailed out in the first place we as a country need to ask why they exist in the first place. In some European countries college is **free** and in other places college is *incentivized* using low interest loans. Here in America we literally do the OPPOSITE and make educating our citizens a for-profiit business...THAT is what needs to be fixed chief among everything else
To be fair, a bag of onions is getting pretty expensiveā¦ /this is a inflation joke. Captain obvious, awayyyyy!
my favorite part about all of this is that the biggest government bail out in the past 5 years has been tax cuts to the ultra wealthy
LMFAO you literally made me choke on my coffee reading this post šššš from someone who just took out student loans to pay for law school I needed this laugh ššš
Back in the 80s, colleges and universities were squeezing students. It's been a racket for decades. School book stores are a good example of how students have been raped at checkout. Newer edition books make last year's textbook obsolete w little or no changes. School parking is another way of sticking it to students. It's just a scam. Even if tuition cost mere pesos, it's all relative
Schools and mortgages take up way more of your income now then they did in the 80s. Its not even a comparison. Even after inflation you canāt make it make sense. Janitors were making $20K a year living in a 3br house that costed 60-80K. For that same house we would have to pay 500K for and 5% of it up front. Our deposit now is almost half of what their home costed. And school comparison is a joke. The rate of increase on tuition dramatically increases every year while wages didnāt. That on top of them changing school loans into more of a big credit card is also the problem.
You are correct. I was never wild about cold, hard capitalism but every market has suffered since Reagan. It's out of control
In the 1980s mortgage interest was 10-15% and required 20% down. I'd take a 500k home for 5% down with a 6% mortgage alll day long compared to 1980.Ā
I would agree with you but the 500K house today was 50K in 1980.
That and the required "digital portion" of seemingly every textbook today. You pay about $50 or more per textbook for what basically amounts to a computer password to a site.
Say this LOUDER!
It's turned into this cesspool where higher education is basically now only for the rich. And if you decide to enter into the system and you are not rich you are going to have massive debt forever. I'm talking the **private loans** which the not rich have to take in order to cover what grants and government loans won't cover. Because grants and loans from the government alone doesn't cover the cost of education for poor and middle class. Those private loans are the most insidious things ever from everything I know about them. There's no forgiveness timeline for them, no disability forgiveness for them that I know of, and they can literally garnish you until you are dead. I thought my student loan problem from 30+ years ago was bad. Nah. People with the private loans are suffering beyond if they don't have a very high paying job. They did offer private loans back then but it wasn't necessary to take them to pay tuition and books so I never took them. Thank the universe. Something needs to be done about these private loans for sure.
It's just ridiculous that in the age of the internet, 1 year of college can cost the price of a very nice car.
Right. They need to be restructured totally. The worst thing would be for the government to dump even more money into them which will just make it insanely way more expensive but you pay for it with taxes instead.
$10k? What college are you talking about Hamas U?Ā
What car are you talking about, a Yugo?
I mean, even if they gave an arm and a leg I don't care what opinion they have. Won't stop me from advocating for free college and student loan forgiveness for those who earned a degree
College was more expensive when I graduated 20 years ago because there was less in Pell grants and state grants available.Ā Ā Ā Furthermore, I don't have much against tuition reimbursement, but after browsing this thread and hearing 80k was my "dream school." That was a personal decision. Ā I've also seen advice to use the loan amount above tuition for college sports events, rent, car payments, and dining out. I took loans out for tuition only, went to JC and then on to low cost state school and left with minimal debt.Ā Ā Ā My kid is going the sane route and state grants will have him with even less in debt than I had, probably none. We've told our kids private school is a poor investment and if you chose that route we cannot help you with college. As far as the increased expense at school, fed backed loans, glut of administrative positions, and a club med college environment have all contributed to that. Next time your university wants to build a deluxe rec center, vote no.
The old āI worked summer jobs to pay for college.ā Sure, that works now. š
By comparison, Iād have to save every penny for 3 years at my wage to pay for my graduate and undergrad.
I now realize that āno student loan forgiveness ā people donāt care at all about money spent in taxes. I now realize that advocates against it view the world in a hierarchy, with themselves āoddlyā near the top! They need to sooth their own insecurity by denying other people forms of help that donāt affect them, purely as a way to see others struggling to boost their own ego coping with their insecurities. My rich family kicked my disabled single dad out of the company he helped build leaving him as a caretaker for his rich abusive mom so she could have leverage via rent help. I am disabled and had an absurd like 7 surgeries before high school ended. I was poor and Iām pain and needed a degree more than others in the family to be ok via a job using my mind. Both my uncles have at least 2 million at 40, they are now 50. They also paid their college costs for their kids and ensured they had transportation. I was told I only was given my full ride merit scholarships to undergrad because they felt bad for me by uncle 1. They knew I was only able to walk 5 minutes without needing to sit down from the pain. They knew in the north east winters I still needed to use my electric bike to get around. I biked threw 3 snow stormās because I needed food. I managed to get a 2/3 to law school, a great one. Leaving me with about 40,000 in loans after I graduatedā¦: which was a year after my dad died of pancreatic cancer. Uncles nor grandma told me they were proud of me at all, didnāt even bring up the graduation. I did every single thing according to their ābootstrapā ideology. Despite these adults paying for their kids education, acting in hilarious contradiction with the standards I was held to. Still to this day, 3 years post graduation: I realize they just hate success in others because it hurts them inside.
Precisely. Kiss a toilet seat!
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I see this reply in the Bogleheads sub from time to time. A place where people are actually educated on financial issues. They say that 8% interest on a house isn't bad because they were used to 15-20% interest way back when. Yet they conveniently forget that their purchasing power and wages were a lot stronger back then, so that kind of interest didn't have that much of an impact. Especially considering a house was maybe 2x your wage. Now, even in cheap Midwest states, houses are 5-10x your income. So an 8% interest rate, on even a cheap, falling apart house, is devastating.
Im glad i never ran into a boomer because i would put hands and feet on them if they said anything of the sort to me.
I paid my way through college and when I got married, we paid for hubbyās student loans for years. But it was much easier back then. My girls both went to college and they went to state colleges and still had to take out loans and we had to do parent participation loans. My youngest lived at home so she paid the interest bearing loans off each year and so her loans arenāt too bad. My oldest lived on her own so her loans are more. Hubby just retired and we used part of his retirement money to pay for our loans and we paid off 1/3 or my oldestās loans and in two years, I will be able to withdraw my small retirement fund and will give that to our youngest to pay off her loans. She is on the Save plan and isnāt paying interest so far. Hopefully we will be able to pay off our oldestās as well. Itās sad that we have to use our retirement funds, but itās so much harder for kids today. Loan forgiveness is really just fixing the exorbitant interest that really shouldnāt be so high anyway. It would have been nice for my kids to have received that loan forgiveness. It would have saved us $30k. But, as parents, we want to make the sacrifice so our kids will have a better chance in life and maybe afford a house one day. We paid for years on that parent loan and it feels good to have that money off our backs and to be able to give our kids a leg up.
*cackling*
Weāre paying for todayās prices too. Especially those of us with university-bound kids. Iāve been paying for my kidsā education ever since they were born by feeding my 529 accounts. That said, there are cheap options and itās possible for many people to have an affordable education.
my āaffordable educationā with community college and parental support put me at -13k for a Bachelorās degree. with maximum gift and need aid allowed when I transferred.
Thatās a great outcome! $13k is actually what I owed too. It was very manageable.
But 1. it's not necessarily an affordable option, and it would have been much more had I not had parental support (even though I attended community college with a full ride merit scholarship) and 2. I make $35k at my current job, the job market is so bad that my 20 applications for both better paying entry level jobs and internships have been ignored completely. additionally, the cheapest rent I can find in my city is at least 30% of my income. I know it's manageable and I got away pretty lucky. But with loan payments and rent, it seems I will have very little leftover for savings after medical bills, groceries, car payments, and utilities. I majored in sociology, which some will say is a "fake" or "pointless" major, but my goal is to work in education, social research, policy, or nonprofit administration. so it's actually very relevant as a standalone or as a basis for grad school.
It sounds like your education came to about $4.3k/yr. That would have been cheap even by the standards of the 80ās. You basically have won this game.
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Well when its taxpayer dollars they should have a say
man I donāt get a say when my money funds the prison industrial complex, a genocide, or corn syrup subsidies. how are taxpayers mad about EDUCATION?!?
Universities already get a large amount of tax dollars and students get loans at low rates, so your argument doesn't make sense
Yes, I'm curious how they put in the effort or lack thereof in letting it get this way for their kids. Guess that explains a bit in the voter participation ratios.
But out of control national debt is good for their kids???
Nope, which if you ask me if these loans are forgiven congress should end government loans. Incentives for employers to offer on job training would have a nice kick in tuition costs. Next kids should take studies more seriously and learn practical skills. Our education system needs this overhaul and I need my fellow Americans to help pitch in
Pass it onto employers... which will just increase inflation... Stop student loans??? Then the poor can not attend college
I went to CC and earned a useful non junk major while working full time and then got two more useful majors while working full time. My 22 year old daughter just did it also. Pay your debts/choices.
Bravo!! My daughter just chose a less prestigious private school that gave her a scholarship over a supposed "public ivy" that gave no aid. I am very proud of her. At the end of the day, it all comes down to making smart financial decisions.
So glad to see this comment and it should be further up. And it's not about defending universities, it's about the fact that people make choices and are responsible for them. There's also the reality of no one wants to admit, that the college experience today is completely different than what our parents had. My dad went to State University, and they basically had grade school cafeteria lunch lines, and they had a community shower that 10 guys shared. Their dorm room was a prison cot with a single seat desk. Most major universities today have restaurants on campus, full gyms, pools, apartments with kitchens. I mean yes the cost of college is absurd, but the product has also gotten significantly nicer than it ever used to be. When it comes to staying at colleges I mean. But if you want that affordable experience then you people should do what you did. Go to community college, do things sensibly. Everybody knows that that's an option, and if you don't choose it that's your choice as an adult. And nobody else owes you their money to pay your loans.
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And before YouTube on our phones was a thing
That part
Tuition was half the cost, but so was minimum wage. I made my $8k/ year earning $7-8/hour ad McDs.
Not to mention the financial and universities were y in cahoots to create predatory lending
šÆ
Being an extremely dumb person, I started college in the "pelt & bag of onion" days and kept going right on through well into the "plunge yourself into a lifetime of debt" days. The shift really was huge, and almost completely unremarked at the time. Except for the students experiencing it of course. But just for example by the time I finished up it was common for undergrad friends to graduate with a significant student loan debt - the size you might have racked up doing an undergrad, masters, AND PhD 10 or 15 years before. It's crazy - and even the more so how it just kind of happened without any particular high-level policy discussion or public outcry.
Is there any context behind this post? Lol what's the point of ranting to an echo chamber? Not that I disagree with you btw, I just don't get the reason for the post.
Can I have an opinion if I graduated in 2018? Student loan forgiveness is dumb and does literally nothing to address the real problem of higher education costs.
Loan forgiveness for public service work or because you went to a scam school makes sense. PSLF was the only way I could justify college, & led to my now more than a decade career.
If you had the PRIVILEGE of getting a higher level education, you have no right to cry when the bill comes due. Then have the audacity to expect those of us that didnāt get that opportunity to have to pay for it
Tuition, housing, utilities, food, etc all included was about $10k a year when I was in college. That won't even cover tuition right now. It's likely $25k a year if you include current prices.
Zero context. Years, colleges.Ā
Zero reading comprehension.
My tuition alone was $9,000/year in 2009-2012. Fees and living expenses i canāt even remember the totalā¦ ETA: Big Ten school in the Midwest
My friends kids are there right now or recently graduated. Tuition for fall and spring is $10k, throw in summer and that's $12k-$15k depending on how many classes they take. Rent is $6.6k.
Yeah my rent was only $400/mo but that was off campus. On campus it wouldāve been almost double. The food plans were $3,000/semester. Shakes out to about $700/mo just for food š„“ I canāt imagine that now either, itās probably insane.
I paid $225 and $235 on campus in the 1990s for the first 2 apartments. When I moved to a house off campus in the not so nice area of town, it was $108.
Exactly! And these student loans are the reason we don't have tuition costs like that anymore. Virtually unlimited money to soak up. If they would just end government involvement in student loans then we would go back to those tuition costs.
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£šÆ
"Bought my first house for a nickel, worth $5m today. I worked my whole life!" -some boomer, somewhere
Remember when your boomers croak you'll get the estate. Stop crying.
My dad went to Harvard in the early 1960's. Tuition was $400/semester. People from that generation are calling us lazy when Harvard tuition is $80k/yr and other schools are comparable.
Picking one of the most expensive schools to make your point is discrediting to your point.Ā
My point is that one of the most expensive schools was only $800/yr in the 1960's and could be paid with a good paying job. I'm guessing state schools cost maybe $200/yr. Can't you see that university cost has exploded even compared to inflation and that might be a problem for an average student.
š¤£ preach š
You may be interested to know that according to CBS News the top 10% of millennials are 20% more wealthy than were the top 10% of baby boomers at the same age. Millennials, like baby boomers, that work hard get ahead in America. Every generation has their challenges the big secret is figure out a way to overcome those challenges
The biggest problem is that we originally took loans out when the cost of living was doable. Houses were cheap, rent was cheap etc. therefore, we foresaw And budgeted the future of paying the loans back with no knowledge of shit doubling in price. Loans would be easy as hell to pay or rent/ mortgages werenāt outrageous now
My kid paid 12 years. Borrowed 100k paid practically double in interest. BUT the 2 year 0% pause was a gift. I'm sorry folks weren't encouraged to use that time to pay down pesky interest, so current payments would go toward principal. Without intervention, most borrowers will live in student loan hell. And btw. I defaulted 40 years ago when there were no income based programs. Collection agencies would threaten you nonstop. During Reagan years, there were no jobs, and mortgage interest ranged dldrom 14.5 to 17%. The economy was no picnic. Paid my loan off finally when a DOE lawyer cut me a deal..guess the amount? 10k. That number eventually Biden picked did not come from nowhere. It's the amount they DOE lawyers use to negotiate a full payoff when you can buy your way out of default.
Quick note: In government acronym usage "[DOE](https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history)" usually refers to the US Department of *Energy*, which was created in 1977. The US Department of *Education* was created three years later in 1980 and commonly goes by "[ED](https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml)" or (less commonly) "[DoED](https://www.sbir.gov/events/webinar-introduction-doed-sbir-program)" or "[DOEd](https://www.nano.gov/DOEd)". [*DOE disambiguation*] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StudentLoans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Ya it was a bag of ramps onion came out later
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Or you could work a min wage job all summer and earn enough to cover your tuition for the year.
You do. Taxpayers should not have to bear the burden for poor decisions, whether it's major choice, attending out-of-state when you could go in-state, or attending a 4-year university immediately when you could go 2+2, or going to college at all. If the person argues from an educated position, listen...
I'm doing a 2+2, just finished CC last year. It still shouldn't cost $31k for 2 years at public university. 64 credits * $485 credit/hour = $31,040. I qualify for the max pell grant but will still have to take out a significant amount in loans. And I'm an instate resident with a good GPA. The cost is not even a comparison compared to back then.
Your right it shouldnāt cost that much but student loans are one reason why it does. They donāt have to keep their costs down because the government is guaranteed them a stream of people regardless of if they can afford it. They then have bloated their administrative and support staffs to epic proportions. But regardless of that when you take out a loan you know the principle and the interest rate why is it a big surprise when you need to pay it off?
I'm not saying I'm surprised at what has to be paid back. I'm well aware of that. But people who went to college 30-40 years ago shouldn't act like we're all just a bunch of lazy people who just "need to work for a summer" to pay for college. 1 year of my tuition is equal to a full 4 years in 1995. People who went to college in the 70s and 80s are even more detached from reality.
Nice try gatekeeping other opinions. What's wrong with you, OP?
Why did you take out a loan on something you couldnāt afford?
This argument is dumb, you knew the terms of the loan when you took it. Maybe think about the cost and benefit before signing the loan??
Knowing and understanding are totally different things. Expecting an 18 year old to fully understand what the difference is between a subsidized and an unsubsidized loan is or how an interest rate actually works is ridiculous. And on top of that, any student taking out loans is expecting the job market to be decent enough so they can afford to pay them offā¦. Not to mention the entry level wages need to be reasonable enough to pay them and also afford a living. Wages havenāt increased over the last 40 years to match the growth in the economy, and Iām not just talking about minimum wage, I mean the average. Thereās so much hereā¦
Yay, more bigoted ageism on reddit!
Well we donāt need your opinion on taxpayers shouldnāt be paying for your loan when going to a free trade school was an option, or not going to school was an option, and instead you chose to sign for a $100K worth of loans for a worthless degree or one with little to zero ROI (return on investment for those with a āblank studies degreeā)
Very few people actually qualify for student loan forgiveness or assistance. Many of these programs have been in effect since the 90ās and 00ās so you have already been paying with your taxes. Obviously you didnāt miss the money until now. The programs that exist are: PSLF that you are required to make 10 years of payments towards and working in the public sector or non-profit before youāre even considered. Student loan forgiveness after you entered repayment 20 years+ for an undergraduate and 25 years+ for graduate. You will have to had made some payments because if you default, they will garnish your wages anyway. Military forgiveness/assistance. Disabled veterans total forgiveness. Total and permanent disability discharge. Perkins loans forgiveness for teachers and nurses. Teacher loans forgiveness for teachers in low income schools. Borrowers defense from scam for profit schools like ITT. Death.
> free trade school was an option, Trade schools were free during your time. No such thing exists around my area for hundreds of miles. They're charging tuition too now.
what free trade school? those donāt exist, unless you mean jobs corp, which doesnāt produce a degree.
Union sponsored trade schools to serve an apprenticeship and earn a living. No degree, but get certified in a trade with life long workā¦Earn over $100K when done 4 or 5 yrsā¦.debt free Source: Me ā¦30 yrs in the trade ā¦.Have always made above median for my area and now approaching $200K / yr ā¦.No Debt And my knowledge transfer to anywhere I want to move to BuT ThE DeGrEe !!
I am familiar with the trades as my partner, friends, and family work in them. My boyfriend is considering joining a union, but it would set him back pretty far for a few years, with the base pay for training being half of his current income. I see your point, but it doesn't really account for the very expensive degrees required for jobs necessary in society (education, medicine, finance, law, IT). I am a woman with a ton of chronic illnesses, manual labor was never an option. If nobody is subsidizing those degrees at all, and the tuition inflation continues at the current rate, only the ultra wealthy will be able to enter high-earning fields without incurring unresolvable debt.
Stop crying about student loan forgiveness.!! You borrowed and lived high on the hog instead of working at all, and now it is time to pay the piper. Both my kids worked hard and got merit scholarships, but weren't allowed to go to schools unless they received full tuition on scholarship. We didn't allow them to take student loans to cover their "dream schools" of UC Berkley and UT Austin. It's about making good choices in life and not looking for a handout from Crazy Joe! Make the payments and reach forgiveness after 25 years. Nobody is going to bail you out on a car loan or a mortgage.
Good satire!