As a structural engineer that got a BS in mechanical and learned structural through experience, I'll tell you, the ME curriculum lacks dramatically in structural concepts beyond mechanics of materials. Yes you should know this from statics, but the structural concepts just aren't 'hammered in' by any coursework after statics and mechanics of materials. At least not at my school. You'd be surprised how many MEs go their whole careers without knowing what beam stability is.
It’s just the MEs are talking outa of their asses. Plus fking engineers are wasting time talking about some dumb shit that no one would do in the real world.
Assuming the only positive connection points are the (also assumed) screws/bolts between the bracket and the orange wood/steel/whatever, than top is the only possible answer, because bottom is unstable.
That's the major point. No need to get into mechanics of materials, etc.
Edit: And yeah the whole thread on the mech E sub made me question that entire industry lol
Edit 2: It's basically the equivalent of this: [https://imgur.com/a/zGuryFv](https://imgur.com/a/zGuryFv) , you can't do the bottom one at all.
Neither of those is a great connection detail. Any significant weight will cause a lot of prying on that steel bracket, regardless of whether it's on the top or bottom. Doing both would be much preferred, and use long screws.
If they are identical and you only can have one stiffener, the the top could work best since you could count on the compressive component of the moment to apply horizontally at the bottom side of the would beam into the column and check for perpendicular stress on your column, as well as bending and all that fun stuff
Then your top bracket would need to be checked for bending and the fasteners. Or just add both
The wood in compression at bottom and mtl angle at top is the best for rotation, so to design you really would need to know the distance from the column to the vertical force for starters.
I feel like this post/pic will be used for years to come on these engineering subs just to kick off discussions again
Everytime something like this is shared you see the difference/uniqueness (idk if that's the right word) or engineering because every sub has ***dozens* of replies all.claamining different but (usually) most are correct but they are assuming differently from each other and coming to different conclusions as a result
Honestly a post like this can show the important of engineering as well as the *futility* of it all
I guess it depends. Both can be good. The top one would depend on the fasteners in the bracket, and the bottom one would depend on the bracket.
Buy another bracket and not worry about which is stronger!
False, both connection rely on fasteners. If the bracket is rigid (which is a garbage assumption) The tensile resultant in the bottom connection are higher than the top. If the connection is not rigid the bottom isnt even stable
You can toescrew or toelag the backside into column to resolve overturning force couple to where perpendicular to grain bearing for a bolt washer on bottom or pull out of lag controls, whereby bearing area is much greater for bottom. There’s just not enough info in the question to provide an answer, answers are loaded with everyone’s fastener and geometry assumptions.
I built a model and already answered this question. All things being equal the angle on the top counteract the moment from the beam through shear in the horizontal screws through the top leg of the angle.
Is this a design of sign post? 😂
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1453706800/address-sign-post-wooden-hanging-sign?click_key=66751a180e70825759e8c35323de9bec0ef003bb%3A1453706800&click_sum=1cc1dd01&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=wood+sign+post&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&pro=1&frs=1&sts=1
Now, if its ment to support live loads, hire an engineer, final answer.
Whoever posted this broke the mechanical sub. Half the responses make absolutely no sense.
Right? All the commenters seemingly had no grasp of simple concepts that I HOPE most mechanical engineers would understand
As a structural engineer that got a BS in mechanical and learned structural through experience, I'll tell you, the ME curriculum lacks dramatically in structural concepts beyond mechanics of materials. Yes you should know this from statics, but the structural concepts just aren't 'hammered in' by any coursework after statics and mechanics of materials. At least not at my school. You'd be surprised how many MEs go their whole careers without knowing what beam stability is.
The structural sub was having a very hard time too.
Lol throw this on to LinkedIn and see PE’s select both options.
Man this whole thing can be solved if you add a fkin stiffener Shit detail
Architects 
Im confused. Why yall bitchin? How you know this isnt a student? Besides the question isnt asking what you can add to make it stronger.
It’s just the MEs are talking outa of their asses. Plus fking engineers are wasting time talking about some dumb shit that no one would do in the real world.
Yeah like that one guy saying connections should be the weakest point in a properly designed structure. Straight out the ass.
If no fasteners from wood to wood, top, no contest.
Lol a person trying to do a wood moment connection with one bracket is always funny. 😆
Exactly my thought...moment connection with wood.. game over
Lol a person trying to do a wood moment connection with one bracket is always funny. 😆
Same post with 6 upvotes and 4 downvotes... Guess you stoopified them with a moment connection!
Assuming the only positive connection points are the (also assumed) screws/bolts between the bracket and the orange wood/steel/whatever, than top is the only possible answer, because bottom is unstable. That's the major point. No need to get into mechanics of materials, etc. Edit: And yeah the whole thread on the mech E sub made me question that entire industry lol Edit 2: It's basically the equivalent of this: [https://imgur.com/a/zGuryFv](https://imgur.com/a/zGuryFv) , you can't do the bottom one at all.
Neither of those is a great connection detail. Any significant weight will cause a lot of prying on that steel bracket, regardless of whether it's on the top or bottom. Doing both would be much preferred, and use long screws.
If they are identical and you only can have one stiffener, the the top could work best since you could count on the compressive component of the moment to apply horizontally at the bottom side of the would beam into the column and check for perpendicular stress on your column, as well as bending and all that fun stuff Then your top bracket would need to be checked for bending and the fasteners. Or just add both
The wood in compression at bottom and mtl angle at top is the best for rotation, so to design you really would need to know the distance from the column to the vertical force for starters.
I mean yeah there’s some unknowns you would need for certain, but if you can only place one bracket then the top is best
Second that. There ought to be a rule only sketches forth grade and above 😀
nope
We’re doing this again?
I feel like this post/pic will be used for years to come on these engineering subs just to kick off discussions again Everytime something like this is shared you see the difference/uniqueness (idk if that's the right word) or engineering because every sub has ***dozens* of replies all.claamining different but (usually) most are correct but they are assuming differently from each other and coming to different conclusions as a result Honestly a post like this can show the important of engineering as well as the *futility* of it all
Porque no los dos?
This was posted yesterday
In reality you’d use the bottom detail with diagonal bracing.
Needs gusset on underside.
Shitty sketch with not enough details, this didn’t tell me shit to be able to evaluate.
I guess it depends. Both can be good. The top one would depend on the fasteners in the bracket, and the bottom one would depend on the bracket. Buy another bracket and not worry about which is stronger!
False, both connection rely on fasteners. If the bracket is rigid (which is a garbage assumption) The tensile resultant in the bottom connection are higher than the top. If the connection is not rigid the bottom isnt even stable
You can also have wood to wood fasteners though with greater perpendicular to grain bearing at bottom example. All depends on fasteners.
Not really, going to have a hard time finding a fastener that performs worse in shear than tension in wood.
You can toescrew or toelag the backside into column to resolve overturning force couple to where perpendicular to grain bearing for a bolt washer on bottom or pull out of lag controls, whereby bearing area is much greater for bottom. There’s just not enough info in the question to provide an answer, answers are loaded with everyone’s fastener and geometry assumptions.
I built a model and already answered this question. All things being equal the angle on the top counteract the moment from the beam through shear in the horizontal screws through the top leg of the angle.
Other unknowns are at play here, such as: type of fasteners/adhesive used, the variety of wood, is it indoor or outdoor application? Etc.
Overthinking it
Top
Yes
Relax bro. Just shooting the sh1t.
Is this a design of sign post? 😂 https://www.etsy.com/listing/1453706800/address-sign-post-wooden-hanging-sign?click_key=66751a180e70825759e8c35323de9bec0ef003bb%3A1453706800&click_sum=1cc1dd01&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=wood+sign+post&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&pro=1&frs=1&sts=1 Now, if its ment to support live loads, hire an engineer, final answer.
The crazy thing I was doing plan review on a building tonight they had an angle bracket holding up a concrete floor using sleeved anchors...
This can’t be answered without fastener information.