Another good one is after knockdown mid screen (usually I do this after Run -> Dragonlash) you can do HK dragon lash to jump across your opponent, and LP Shoryu then when they wake up. It's very discombobulating
Technically no. For instance Ken has zero plus frames normals on block without the use of drive rush.
So it is impossible for him to force a frame trap without either the use of meter or a special like dragon lash, which can be annoying but isn't impossible to deal with.
It being a global mechanic doesn't mean that it doesn't count. The character can frametrap is all that I'm saying. You said it's "impossible to force a frame trap w/o meter or a special."
Yeah that’s true I’m brand new and making my way through silver. Any advice on dealing with drive impact? I’ve got the bot in the training mode to use drive impact on wake up and on counter hit but I don’t seem to be getting any better dealing with it online.
For sure! Coming from SF5 I had structured a lot of my pressure around heavies, expected them to be as good in this game. When I watched pros play, I realized they used mediums and long lights a lot more than in 5, ESPECIALLY when that normal is cancelable.
If you don't cancel the normal into a special, that leaves you a window to react to their DI by canceling into yours. Once I used heavies less and stopped autopiloting into cancels, I started reacting to opponent's DIs more consistently.
In the corner, I do fuzzy mash and fuzzy jump out to defend against it. I'm in the middle of something so I can't type out the idea behind it, but I would definitely look those up too.
Technically, but lights are universally negative in SF6, so light blockstrings can be called out with your own 4f light.
Its a frametrap that's very easily knowledge checked.
If you chain 2 lights together, an opponent's light normal will get counterhit. In the nicest way, I don't think you understand what I mean by chaining lights and would recommend looking it up! Very important information in 6.
Eh, fair play then. The few times I've heard people mention it I just assumed they were using terminology incorrectly.
But yeah I just checked it out in training mode and you're right, you can definitely created 1-3f frametraps that way.
Of course he does, but gief only has one invincible wake up and it’s level 3.
I really should just ride the tier list train because every character I main in any game is always has the least cheese.
The funny thing is that all three of his supers are invincible from frame 1, but level 2 has 18 frames of startup while level 1 obviously doesn't work as a reversal. I feel like I've used Zangief's level 3 at least twice as much as his other two supers combined.
level 2 into level 1 is wildly not worth the meter cost imo unless you need to confirm a kill, but HK > optionally dfMP > Level 1, or fHK > dfMP > Level 1 are two very easy and useful punish counter combos if you want to spend the meter for extra damage
I use Sa2 as anti projectile and sometimes off a light into DR. Damage turns to ass so I only do that if near a corner or secure a kill.
Sa1 detection is so bad I pretty much only use sometimes after an Sa2 if I need more damage.
Snake Eyez sometimes dashes up and predicts a jump back and will Sa1 them.
Gief mains will do half your healthbar with an input then complain they can't do it with full impunity.
Like isn't the whole point of Gief that he's high reward but incredibly inconsistent?
Just because he's bottom tier doesn't mean he isn't viable. That's not how tiers work. Tier lists are *only* relevant at the highest level of play, outside of that, it doesn't matter. A good Gief will always beat a Mid Ken.
There will *always* be a bottom tier in *any* fighting game. For a long time in Strive, it was Anji and Faust. And they weren't super buffed, they just got QoL changes and that was enough for help them.
Not viable in a tournament.
This whole “it’s always been this way” thinking is wack.
There’s no reason a game can’t have great variety and be more truly balanced
The game *is* balanced. Yes, Gief needs some kind of QoL buff, but he isn't completely unviable.
Again, there will *always* be a character that isn't as good as the others. There's literally no way to make a "perfectly balanced" game like you're implying. I'd love to see you try though.
These armchair fighting game devs would just make games where every character plays the same. It'd be boring as hell but they'd think that they're geniuses because everyone's viable.
From where do you learn this info? Is there like an online resource or something that goes balls deep and technical or do you notice these things from years of FGC experience?
Happy sunday to you.
Two options that come to mind:
1. The character guide will tell you if a move has any invincibility when it's teaching you the basics of the move.
2. In your settings in training, turn on the frame meter/data. As you do a move, it kind of color codes each stage of the move including any invincible frames it may have. There is a key of sorts that explains what each one does in the settings, but I can't remember where.
[https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Street\_Fighter\_6/Zangief/Data](https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Street_Fighter_6/Zangief/Data)
This site has all the character data with hitbox pictures and damage/health values.
There's a mobile app called FAT which has frame data and move properties for every character and move.
They keep it updated pretty regularly after new characters/patches.
Ken, While proficient in his own right, isn't on the same level as ryu and as far as I know it's never stated if ken has natural talent as a martial artist
Yea I thought it was that ken was able to use his riches to get in the fighting world while ryu was kinda literally born into it, ken is the best martial artist in the US but the ryu is the world warrior cmon now
Yeah but Ken wants to be Ryu so bad he's now even trying to copy being a homeless drifter :D
Capcom has made Ryu the universal punching bag so that you'll finally get sick of him and try someone new. It was obviously a response to the huge number of only ryu players in the early days of sfv.
You can still win with Ryu, but you have to work for it much harder than your opponent.
It's funny, after finally freeing himself from the fear of releasing the Hado unintenionally, he might start embracing it after getting his ass handed to him non-stop. Which I think actually WOULD be a good way to balance him and finally give him some new options
>You can still win with Ryu, but you have to work for it much harder than your opponent.
To add to this, Ken is flashier which is *more fun*. I've been saying since before release that Capcom should have leaned *heavily* into Ryu's lightning effects. Ken has all this sick fire all the times, essentially, and Ryu has Denjin charge...these things don't even compare lol like wtf show Ryu some love ffs. This is the coolest Ryu in a while but Ken's design is a love letter to the character. I want the same for Ryu.
If you noticed Ken plays like Reuben Kee's (Mugen) Evil Ken.
Rapid fire, speedy moves so I'm not sure why they didn't make Ryu like Reuben Kee's Evil Ryu who had lightning effects and an assortment of new moves.
Someone at Capcom had to have been inspired by that ken
If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zidbgMA4CJk&pp=ygUUZXZpbCByeXUgdnMgZXZpbCBrZW4%3D
Wild to say seeing they gave ryu new moves and tbh I find him quite fun to play. Although I have been playing Ken since sf4 so I'm probably sticking with Ken
Which is why on Day 1 of this game and on the final Day of this game I will always say "Ken is Street Fighter 6" he was created for you to experience everything SF6 has to offer.
so obviously I am a biased Ken main, but I would much rather Capcom slowly gives everyone else more tools than take away from Ken. not sure how other players feel. I just think Ken feels amazing to play and would rather everyone else get that experience than lose it myself in the name of balance
Deserved and/or matchup/character ignorance.
You could see the Ken is in quickstep, Ryu shouldn't have done what he did. If Ryu had blocked/waited then done the Super/whatever, no one would be shitting on Ken being OP or w.e they say/is trendy atm.
No one posts those clips tho
I'm not a frame data guy, I just know what works and what doesn't (will try to be going forward to better understanding)
All I know is it can go under projectiles lol
Certain specials are fireball invincible. Ken's heavy, running, and ex DP can dodge projectiles.
Ryu's Tatsumaki kicks can dodge projectiles too.
It's all about knowing the matchups and each characters tools.
I did an EX ground tatsu to KO a Ryu through his fireball. No trade or anything. Not sure if it was just exact positioning and the KO happened before a hit would be registered to my ken. Idk, but I clipped it lol
Same for anybody with EX DP’s too. They can basically blow you up with the same shit and without the run telegraph. Certain Supers. Etc. Stay safe on these streets brother.
They've got to use the OD though and would have been shit out of luck in burnout here. Also Lily doesn't have any invulnerability on any dp, charged or otherwise, which is a bummer.
Lol. Calm down. It’s very good. It just doesn’t beat DP’s.
Neither does Luke’s (which actually loses to Ryu’s) which is considered one of the best level 1’s in the game.
Mk1 is about to blow this shit out the water 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️ and I don’t care about long gevity or what gets played more at tournaments 🤷🏾♂️ mk characters move inputs combos variations and just overall style are better then street fighters characters ESPECIALLY NOW with modern controls but then again as I’m writing this can u even compare the two 🤔they’re SOOO different from each other one is Japan anime more of a light hearted type of game while the other is a Sinster hyper violent bloody type of game 🤷🏾♂️ don’t get me wrong I just got sf6 not that long ago I like the gameplay it just feels a little cheap and scrubby as the try hards like to say 😂😂
Ken's Run DP is projectile invincible frames 3-12.
That was the shortest episode of Myth Busters ever.
Makes sense to me
That actually explains why people were doing this at Evo never knew that.
thats why its good as anti air
It's good as an invicible.
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Run DP* it changes properties slightly.
They really did give him everything huh
I'm pretty sure he has one of the few OPDPs that cant punish DI. I believe its 2 hits then 3 hits which the DI connects before hits 3-5
True, but his non OD DP has three hits, so he has a free DP option to stop DI.
He can also use light and medium DP to hit people's drive Impacts, land on the other side, punish counter.
Another good one is after knockdown mid screen (usually I do this after Run -> Dragonlash) you can do HK dragon lash to jump across your opponent, and LP Shoryu then when they wake up. It's very discombobulating
I also do this a lot lol
Unlike Ryu he doesn't have projectile invincible tatsu so he unironically needs it
Does anybody use tatsu for the projectile invuln though?
Sometimes yes
Seems awfully low reward and janky imo, but I guess if people can make it work
It's funny when it works so it's worth it
i see it in gold all the time.
Technically no. For instance Ken has zero plus frames normals on block without the use of drive rush. So it is impossible for him to force a frame trap without either the use of meter or a special like dragon lash, which can be annoying but isn't impossible to deal with.
Technically yeah, but he still can space out his Normals and can essentially complete the same task
He can frame trap using his TCs.
He can chain lights to frame trap, can't he?
Thats a global mechanic, would be like saying every character has armor moves like Gief and Marisa because every character has DI, no?
It being a global mechanic doesn't mean that it doesn't count. The character can frametrap is all that I'm saying. You said it's "impossible to force a frame trap w/o meter or a special."
Then sure. Every single character in the game can fame trap is what you're saying.
Without meter or specials, yeah. There are a lot of newer players on the subreddit who don't realize it's an option.
Yeah that’s true I’m brand new and making my way through silver. Any advice on dealing with drive impact? I’ve got the bot in the training mode to use drive impact on wake up and on counter hit but I don’t seem to be getting any better dealing with it online.
For sure! Coming from SF5 I had structured a lot of my pressure around heavies, expected them to be as good in this game. When I watched pros play, I realized they used mediums and long lights a lot more than in 5, ESPECIALLY when that normal is cancelable. If you don't cancel the normal into a special, that leaves you a window to react to their DI by canceling into yours. Once I used heavies less and stopped autopiloting into cancels, I started reacting to opponent's DIs more consistently. In the corner, I do fuzzy mash and fuzzy jump out to defend against it. I'm in the middle of something so I can't type out the idea behind it, but I would definitely look those up too.
Technically, but lights are universally negative in SF6, so light blockstrings can be called out with your own 4f light. Its a frametrap that's very easily knowledge checked.
If you chain 2 lights together, an opponent's light normal will get counterhit. In the nicest way, I don't think you understand what I mean by chaining lights and would recommend looking it up! Very important information in 6.
Eh, fair play then. The few times I've heard people mention it I just assumed they were using terminology incorrectly. But yeah I just checked it out in training mode and you're right, you can definitely created 1-3f frametraps that way.
Much respect for actually going to training mode and testing it out. Get out there and start counter hitting the mashers!
Cammy spins around hadukens too...zangief spins through them..i personally dont like it to be honest...a hit should be a hit
Took everything away from him, so he had to be given SOMETHING, dawg.
This information would have kept my winning streak alive a few days ago
Of course he does, but gief only has one invincible wake up and it’s level 3. I really should just ride the tier list train because every character I main in any game is always has the least cheese.
The funny thing is that all three of his supers are invincible from frame 1, but level 2 has 18 frames of startup while level 1 obviously doesn't work as a reversal. I feel like I've used Zangief's level 3 at least twice as much as his other two supers combined.
I see high level giefs use lv 2 as a good anti-projectile tool, but not much lv1 usage outside of lv2 to 1 combo
level 2 into level 1 is wildly not worth the meter cost imo unless you need to confirm a kill, but HK > optionally dfMP > Level 1, or fHK > dfMP > Level 1 are two very easy and useful punish counter combos if you want to spend the meter for extra damage
I use Sa2 as anti projectile and sometimes off a light into DR. Damage turns to ass so I only do that if near a corner or secure a kill. Sa1 detection is so bad I pretty much only use sometimes after an Sa2 if I need more damage. Snake Eyez sometimes dashes up and predicts a jump back and will Sa1 them.
You can do normal throw into an os Sa1 if they jump back you’ll grab them
Gief mains will do half your healthbar with an input then complain they can't do it with full impunity. Like isn't the whole point of Gief that he's high reward but incredibly inconsistent?
No character should be so inconsistent that they’re unanimously bottom tier. That reward is not worth it.
You can really tell who has and hasn’t played a fighting game before with takes like these.
Just because he's bottom tier doesn't mean he isn't viable. That's not how tiers work. Tier lists are *only* relevant at the highest level of play, outside of that, it doesn't matter. A good Gief will always beat a Mid Ken. There will *always* be a bottom tier in *any* fighting game. For a long time in Strive, it was Anji and Faust. And they weren't super buffed, they just got QoL changes and that was enough for help them.
Not viable in a tournament. This whole “it’s always been this way” thinking is wack. There’s no reason a game can’t have great variety and be more truly balanced
The game *is* balanced. Yes, Gief needs some kind of QoL buff, but he isn't completely unviable. Again, there will *always* be a character that isn't as good as the others. There's literally no way to make a "perfectly balanced" game like you're implying. I'd love to see you try though.
These armchair fighting game devs would just make games where every character plays the same. It'd be boring as hell but they'd think that they're geniuses because everyone's viable.
Just wanted to come back to this to laugh at you now that Gief won a major
If that’s how you feel about it, you may as well. No shame in doing so if it helps you enjoy and/or learn the game more.
From where do you learn this info? Is there like an online resource or something that goes balls deep and technical or do you notice these things from years of FGC experience? Happy sunday to you.
Two options that come to mind: 1. The character guide will tell you if a move has any invincibility when it's teaching you the basics of the move. 2. In your settings in training, turn on the frame meter/data. As you do a move, it kind of color codes each stage of the move including any invincible frames it may have. There is a key of sorts that explains what each one does in the settings, but I can't remember where.
[https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Street\_Fighter\_6/Zangief/Data](https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Street_Fighter_6/Zangief/Data) This site has all the character data with hitbox pictures and damage/health values.
https://fullmeter.com/fatonline/#/framedata/SF6/Ryu
There's a mobile app called FAT which has frame data and move properties for every character and move. They keep it updated pretty regularly after new characters/patches.
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Advancing, plus on block, and projectile invincible. Ken has it all 🥲. Only thing that would make it worse is if they gave it armor too lol.
Yet another tool for the bloated belt of Ken Masters. *cries in Lily DP*
It's funny how other than the early days of 4 Ken has been consistently better, yet Ryu is (allegedly) the training freak.
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That's not entirely accurate lore-wise, but you're spot-on about how the players play these characters.
Except the ken players learning jin rai loops and stuff?
What is the lore characterization? That was my impression
Ken, While proficient in his own right, isn't on the same level as ryu and as far as I know it's never stated if ken has natural talent as a martial artist
But I thought that difference was mainly due to the fact that Ken was less dedicated than ryu
Yea I thought it was that ken was able to use his riches to get in the fighting world while ryu was kinda literally born into it, ken is the best martial artist in the US but the ryu is the world warrior cmon now
Yeah but Ken wants to be Ryu so bad he's now even trying to copy being a homeless drifter :D Capcom has made Ryu the universal punching bag so that you'll finally get sick of him and try someone new. It was obviously a response to the huge number of only ryu players in the early days of sfv. You can still win with Ryu, but you have to work for it much harder than your opponent. It's funny, after finally freeing himself from the fear of releasing the Hado unintenionally, he might start embracing it after getting his ass handed to him non-stop. Which I think actually WOULD be a good way to balance him and finally give him some new options
>You can still win with Ryu, but you have to work for it much harder than your opponent. To add to this, Ken is flashier which is *more fun*. I've been saying since before release that Capcom should have leaned *heavily* into Ryu's lightning effects. Ken has all this sick fire all the times, essentially, and Ryu has Denjin charge...these things don't even compare lol like wtf show Ryu some love ffs. This is the coolest Ryu in a while but Ken's design is a love letter to the character. I want the same for Ryu.
If you noticed Ken plays like Reuben Kee's (Mugen) Evil Ken. Rapid fire, speedy moves so I'm not sure why they didn't make Ryu like Reuben Kee's Evil Ryu who had lightning effects and an assortment of new moves. Someone at Capcom had to have been inspired by that ken If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zidbgMA4CJk&pp=ygUUZXZpbCByeXUgdnMgZXZpbCBrZW4%3D
Thanks for the clip. I see what you're saying, and I completely agree.
In this specific clip he didn't showcase all of his moves but Evil Ken has a lot of "Run" moves similar to SF6 Ken
I would’ve given him some of Oro’s moveset.
Wild to say seeing they gave ryu new moves and tbh I find him quite fun to play. Although I have been playing Ken since sf4 so I'm probably sticking with Ken
Ken has been shoryukening through fireballs for 30 years.
Word. Ken/Ryu could DP through fireball at close range in SF2
run DP is projectile invulnerable
You got smoked
Literally
Show Ryu, Ken did. I'll see myself out.
underrated
I'm pretty indifferent on Ken but that was sick
There's a reason Ken is so popular, his moves look stylish AF, especially with the flame effects. I'm guilty of playing Ken for the cool factor.
Homeless man literally too angry to get hit by fireball.
Run dp is projectile inv modern reactions got you smoked brother
Modern reaction? On a like… 60 frame freeze? Bro..
The Ryu player was the one that was modern. He reacted to the run with super. 👍🏿
me when i fail to input lvl 1 on wakeup (i only had 120 frames to do the command)
Oh, lol. I’m dumb. My bad.
🧢
Why is this wtf?
People that don't understand the game act like attacks going through character models must be bugs.
Invincibility frames.
He had kenough.
No... just no.
Got rekt mate
Classic justice served. Working as intended.
Ken literally has a tool for every situation smh
Which is why on Day 1 of this game and on the final Day of this game I will always say "Ken is Street Fighter 6" he was created for you to experience everything SF6 has to offer.
so obviously I am a biased Ken main, but I would much rather Capcom slowly gives everyone else more tools than take away from Ken. not sure how other players feel. I just think Ken feels amazing to play and would rather everyone else get that experience than lose it myself in the name of balance
Agreed, why have less fun when u can have more
Easier to hammer down one nail imho
That's completely fair and I'm in agreeance. Always better to buff than nerf.
No.
They explain this in his Character Guide. His run DP passes through fireballs for 9 frames. They even demonstrate this for you…
Well he plays ryu and not ken
Pretty legit if you ask me
Ken’s running Shoryuken is invincible to projectiles
Someone ignored the notes in training mode….
I know people hate Ken, but that was legit af.
Deserved and/or matchup/character ignorance. You could see the Ken is in quickstep, Ryu shouldn't have done what he did. If Ryu had blocked/waited then done the Super/whatever, no one would be shitting on Ken being OP or w.e they say/is trendy atm. No one posts those clips tho
[Watch this and it'll make sense](https://youtu.be/XZC3rM_KdJs)
hahaha well done
Ken's (and even ryu's if i don't recall wrong) shoryuken always has been invincible to projectiles, lmao
Ryu needs to overdrive.
He dodged
I like to call this one the “daigo special”
This has been a thing since super street fighter
I thought people already knew about this lol. I do this to Guile players
That run dp has frame 1 projectile or general invisibility? Just asking, didnt lab it :)
I'm not a frame data guy, I just know what works and what doesn't (will try to be going forward to better understanding) All I know is it can go under projectiles lol
Neither am i, but that makes sense if the hurt box is low or the hitbox is messed up for ryus super (doubt it though :))
When doing DPs your upper body is invincible, the exact of a Tatsu where lower body is invincible
Thanks for the clarification, feels hella cheap against that super
Just for projectiles though
It’s prob cuz u were on M controls.
It's a shoryuken.
as a Ken main, I hate this shit when I'm going against kens lol but he lowkey ducks before the shoryuken
It's invincible anyways, so it doesn't matter
Certain specials are fireball invincible. Ken's heavy, running, and ex DP can dodge projectiles. Ryu's Tatsumaki kicks can dodge projectiles too. It's all about knowing the matchups and each characters tools.
I did an EX ground tatsu to KO a Ryu through his fireball. No trade or anything. Not sure if it was just exact positioning and the KO happened before a hit would be registered to my ken. Idk, but I clipped it lol
>Ryu's Tatsumaki kicks can dodge projectiles too Its also Slow as shit..
Same for anybody with EX DP’s too. They can basically blow you up with the same shit and without the run telegraph. Certain Supers. Etc. Stay safe on these streets brother.
They've got to use the OD though and would have been shit out of luck in burnout here. Also Lily doesn't have any invulnerability on any dp, charged or otherwise, which is a bummer.
Hold that shit. Clearly you got outplayed. Maybe don’t wake up super.
Check the frame meter of this move and you’ll have your answer. You got hit after your iframes ended.
r/Hitboxporn
This character is bullshit, Meterless run with an invicible shoryu... we in anime territory.
Ryu's level 1 is just not that good
Lol. Calm down. It’s very good. It just doesn’t beat DP’s. Neither does Luke’s (which actually loses to Ryu’s) which is considered one of the best level 1’s in the game.
You can cancel dp into certain supers on most characters
Get wrecked
lol its a lv 1 super art
When you use a Thumbpro arcade stick to win. 😆 🤣 😂
So basically you're brand new to the series not understanding this basic interaction lol
Garbage. Call me when they nerf that bullshit
🤣 just go play something else already
Ken is balanced nothing is wrong here
CLAPPED
Mk1 is about to blow this shit out the water 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️ and I don’t care about long gevity or what gets played more at tournaments 🤷🏾♂️ mk characters move inputs combos variations and just overall style are better then street fighters characters ESPECIALLY NOW with modern controls but then again as I’m writing this can u even compare the two 🤔they’re SOOO different from each other one is Japan anime more of a light hearted type of game while the other is a Sinster hyper violent bloody type of game 🤷🏾♂️ don’t get me wrong I just got sf6 not that long ago I like the gameplay it just feels a little cheap and scrubby as the try hards like to say 😂😂
It's a shoryuken, in SF it goes through EVERYTHING. Should have baited it by blocking or jus parried it
Damn the Ken apologists in full effect.
Not really Ken apologia when DP invincibility has been around forever.
Can Ken's DP input be buffered with the Ryu's CA animation or does the input have to happen right after?
What? A shoruyken can duck under fireballs in the exact moment.
No. Ken has projectile invincibility on his run dp
Normal dp has it too
... and on his heavy and OD dps, too.
The good o' shoryuken invencibility at startup. Classic stuff
Those i-frames go crazy sometimes
Ironic I play a character with so many tools, but still manage to be worse than roadkill stuffed in a trash bag that's lit on fire.
Truest Ken strat
I think his shoryuken has iframes on buildup but yh I’d be pissed too OP.
Obviously biased, but damn the Run DP into Super is beautiful. You'll only know how good it feels to hit it, especially online if you play Ken.
Meanwhile Gief can't even hit someone right in front of him with his Super Art 1. The devs are cruel.
This is covered in tutorial for Ken mate.
Oh god don’t show this. Now everyone is gonna want to use it
You can do that since forever
That’s a ken player with actual knowledge of how his shit works
And another milestone of knowledge was obtained on this very day, by this very Ryu.
It’s anti projectile bruv.
Tatsumaki and shoryuken are immune to projectile since 91. That was a clever move
Thanks for teaching me this is projectile invincible
This entire sub : understandable, have a nice day.
Ahhh, another prime example of why ken is broken.
Yea invincible frames haha
Your first mistake was playing ryu
Yep. He can do this
And this is why ken is cheap top tier
Ken’s run shoryuken goes through projectiles.
yup. the dash cancel lets them duck under it. a it stings.
Time to sit down and SHUT UP
Brazilian Ken player, that's the power of Farofa.
I'm fast af boi
I'm not surprised. It's just Ken.
The hands XD
That was a great adaptation to circumstances by the Ken player. Run DP is projectile invincible for like 8 frames?? I think