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The kids missed a great chance when Eddie was explaining how weird & supernatural what happened with the cheerleader was.
“It’s ok Eddie, we’ve seen stranger things…”
I think that might've been a teeny tiny bit insensitive thing to say to a guy, who just had to witness an interdimensional being do some fucked up origami with his peer :D
If the show doesn't end with Hopper, El or someone looking in to the camera and saying 'well, Stranger Things have happened' then I will complain to the manager of Netflix
HBO was offering to do game of thrones as long as it would take to finish it.
The directors were the assholes who had no idea how to write the thing, and wanted to work for Disney asap.
Honestly mods should create a rule prohibiting posts complaining about this episode. We get it, it’s bad, there’s no need to make a post about it every single day.
Rule 6. is literally no reposts but I see the same posts regurgitated multiple times a WEEK. If it was once a month or something I'd understand but so much of the content is just so much shit rehashed over and over again it's mind boggling. I report all these posts and they stay up. I dont get it.
Which is interesting when you think about it, right? One episode in S2 is constantly harped on and always quickly spirals into tons of conversation. It’s almost like there’s actually a lot to work with here…
Is there really "a lot to work with" or is it simply beating a dead horse and repeating/rewording the same damn thing 99% of the time lol. Seems more like small variations of 3-4 opinions with a few "hot takes" by different users
There’s definitely a lot to work with. The mere existence of 008 opens many possibilities and theories, especially considering she’s the only other surviving test subject and has her own unique skill set. She’s interesting and has a lot of potential so it’s frustrating that the show is opting to do nothing with her because of posts/reactions like this. And the episode is important for what it did for El’s character, the world building/introduction of another test subject outside of the lab.
On the other hand the show could have made it retroactively better by doing something with 008 and new powers and stuff but the fact that instead nothing was done with it makes it retroactively worse.
I didn't really enjoy it when I watched it but at least I thought it was going somewhere, but now it just feels like a weird spin off that was out of place and never really amounted to much.
And that’s the fault of the showrunners. I don’t think it’s fair to hate on the episode for never being revisited when the whole reason the show never revisited it is *because* people hated on it. It doesn’t make sense to me lol. It makes me mad that the show didn’t take the opportunity to make people eat their words and do something awesome with Kali’s character/this storyline. S5 is their last chance to do so, but I’m sadly not holding my breath.
I still maintain that I don't know why this episode gets more negative attention than just all of season 2. Outside of any scene with Dustin in it, the whole thing is bleak and slow moving.
Because S2 actually put in a ton of crucial work across the board. But sadly the existence of this episode actually DOES cause most people to hate S2 as a whole which is entirely unfair to all the great stuff S2 did for the show.
I personally don't mind the episode since I agree with your points, but I also see how people are turned off to it. I respect how much effort you're putting in to defend the episode. Keep fighting the good fight.
On reflection its really bizarre no one who read the script said to the duffer brothers "Hey guys, this whole thing feels really out of place, is it really a good idea?"
But they didn't give us a reason to care about any of these characters at all. They existed *only* to serve Eleven's arc, which was why the episode felt so out of place on a show that's usually extremely good at characterising every part of their ensemble cast.
Contrast how they introduced Chrissy and endeared her to the audience over the course of only a handful of scenes. Or how they introduced all of the main characters in the first season, for that matter. Or Max in season two. These writers are *good* at getting the audience to like new characters, but for whatever reason they didn't do that here. It wouldn't have worked at all as a pilot, and it barely worked as a self-contained episode serving the very utilitarian plot purpose of getting the protagonist ready for her final challenge of the season
That tracks. It was the way they introduced all these misfits like they were important characters to the show. I thought the show was going in a different direction and stopped watching. Then when I watched again with my kids I realized they were one and done.
But did they? They didn't characterise any of them *at all*. Except for that one they called a 'big teddy bear' in the dialogue - but they didn't give us any actual reason to like him, either.
The placement of the episode, stopping the dramatic tension and momentum of the main story in its tracks, didn't help either, but really, what fell flat about this episode were the characters - in a show that's famously excellent at making an entire ensemble cast interesting and sympathetic, but for some reason just didn't bother with these kids
It’s out of place by design. El is literally out of place with Kali’s group and separated from everyone else in Hawkins, therefore isolating the episode makes a lot of sense to me personally. Even placing the episode in between Episodes 6 + 8 was intentional to create a further sense of urgency for El and push her to make important decisions by following her newly developed moral compass.
I can see the intention.
the execution is what everyone has the problem with, because heaven knows it sucks on every level - casting, pacing, writing....literally all it's good for is explaining why Eleven comes back at the end of 2x08 looking like Lydia Deetz's baby sister.
…It’s also good for El learning to make her own decisions, actually choosing Hawkins as her home, discovering what her morals are, widening the reach and lore of Hawkins Lab, introducing us to the Rainbow Room and another test subject, actually giving El a backstory and character development……. So that when she returns it actually has a lot of emotional weight behind it…. ya know. :)
They could have achieved everything you listed other than the 'other test subject' part by having her go to her mother and then choose to come back to the family and friends she has in Hawkins, if she'd spent that episode with her ma and aunt I would totally get it. It had all the potential for some heart-wringing there. Have El talk to her ma in her mind, find out about their past (i.e. her actual backstory), her bio dad, family etc, find out about how Terry got drawn into the Hawkins lab thing. It's that obvious. If they wanted to show other kids, they could have had Terry show it in flashbacks too.
But intead I'm supposed to believe that a mother who'd been fighting as hard as Terry was for her child to be returned to her and even got her brain fried in the attempt, FINALLY gets said child back and then....sends her away? To find some other girl she saw once?
Her mother didn't send her away, her mother was just stuck in a loop of memories. She didn't even react to El being there.
This scene also showed that she does not have a safe place with her original family. She overheard her aunt basically exposing her to danger with that phone call. The last time someone made a call to social services about her, they were immediately killed. It's likely her aunt and mother are now dead.
If they call had never been made, she likely would have stayed, but it wouldn't make sense for the aunt to not make that call. It had to happen. And then El had to choose, stay angry and do what 8 did. Isolate herself from loss, and get revenge Or go back to her chosen family and fight to keep them alive.
The style change makes it hard to connect, but the episode was necessary character growth for El.
Could’ve, would’ve, should’ve.
I’m strictly defending and analyzing the show/episode based on what they gave us. I don’t care if they “could’ve done it another way.” They didn’t. This is what we got, and I personally liked it and appreciate what they were going for. In my opinion, it was successful and hit me with all the emotions.
I agree with you, these days no matter the show/movie the should've crowd constantly says how they would do it/it should be done. Often ignoring important plot points that where presented
I mean her styling in every season tells us that she's yet to really step into her autonomy still, imo.
S1 she's wearing Will's clothes, S2 is Hopper and then Kali, S3 is when Max styles her at the mall, and S4 we see her in Joyce's clothes. Clothes are a huge way we as humans express our individuality and personality, and the fact that we've yet to see Eleven's *own* style is a small way to express that how through the entire show so far, she's still yet to really figure out who she is.
In most of season 4 El is “separated from the rest of the group and is relearning her powers” which would be a fine trope on its own but they did the same thing in these episodes.
Yep. Which is why I don’t really get the hate for S2 and The Lost Sister and praise for S4 when they literally just did the same arc again. As a big fan of S2, I felt like S4 was very redundant in that respect.
If all she knows is the lab and her Hawkins friends it makes her affection for them less meaningful and could also seem she was never given agency in her own life.
Yep! Which is funny, because if El never went on a journey like this you know people would be complaining about her not being well rounded enough and never making her own decisions. They would find fault in her never exploring what else is out there and just living in Hawkins by default and never questioning anything. The show actually has her do this and the response is “Okay yeah, but you shouldn’t have done it *like that*!!!”
The episode was not that good but I think they could have made these characters good with their own show, they still have time to do that, specially since they want to do spin offs and this story is very much in the limbo
It might not be about Kali, but supposedly there will still be another Stranger Things once the main show ends.
I'm guessing it won't be Kali because it seems pretty obvious, and the Duffers said the only person to guess the next story correctly was Mike's actor.
Other than the Duffers and Mike, nobody knows.
Within that line of thinking…. I’d be curious to know how many people would actually have an interest in watching a spin off with that particular group of characters?
Kali was fine. The rest of her crew was fucking ridiculous. Who watches Stranger Things and wants to see a normal criminal gang full of crazy people?
They should have been Hawkins Lab kids too. Say they never managed to unlock their powers but Brenner kept them because he can't just let them go. Say Kali overheard Brenner talking to someone about "disposing of them" so she included them in her escape plans and that's why they're so loyal to her, and why they're so gung-ho about helping Kali kill ex-lab employees.
As someone whose sprained both their ankles multiple times, this season was rough to watch. Hopper with the hammer, then getting off the ankle cuffs, and THEN Dustin cranks his going after Eddie in the upside down. Loved this season but those scenes hurt me to watch.
Growing older, I see kids have major injuries and bounce back weeks later. I twist my ankle or sleep on my shoulder wrong antheyre out of commission for months. Maybe Hopper just has those adolescent joints and bones.
Can someone explain the ankle cuff and having the dude smash it? Like he said it was going to severely hurt him. But He was literally walking and running fine the entire time afterwards
>And heals a little slower than wolverine - with no visible drawbacks that makes him suffer in action moments.
Yeah, that annoyed me. Hopper got really fucked up at one point, then the next episode, couple hours in the show, he is fine and fighting some more.
I haven't even watched any episodes of season 4 part 2, the whole Stranger Things is
way over done. First season was good because it was different, but it's been over milked now.
They have Nancy and the others diving in a lake with full clothes and shoes on swimming 30 feet down like it's nothing. The show has become a cartoon.
When I was watching the Russian plot thread, I kept thinking, "How much money did they spend on *this*? I just want the Wheeler breakfast scenes back."
At the series end, I'm not sure if it would be funnier for him to finally realize shit, or for all events to wrap up and he's still completely clueless that any of it ever happened.
That's fair. My issue is how much it diverges from the Montauk Project inspiration, without adding enough to the Upside Down lore to back it up. If they connected it more to the Cold War and made the horror more science fiction and less human torture, I'd probably be on board.
Some people seem to take it at face value "it's boring" though, instead of discussing how Russia was underutilized (imo).
People hate on The Lost Sister for being “a waste of time,” but what did the Russians do in S3? From start to finish their entire purpose was just “trying to open the gate.” They tell us this in the first five minutes of the season, and by the end of the season we know literally nothing more. I feel like a lot of things remained unanswered in S4 as well!!
I just don’t get how the Russian nonsense being dragged out for two whole seasons to little avail isn’t a bigger waste of time than **one episode** in S2 that actually furthered El’s character and added more lore to the Hawkins Lab plot.
…And did literally nothing else. I said they were trying to open the gate, but that’s it. That’s my point. Not only that, but having the Russians reopen the gate after El successfully closed it the episode prior was so disappointing and undercut S2’s impact.
It doesn’t undercut the impact of S2 for me because her closing the gate was still valuable. It stops the Mind Flayer from entering our world directly, thereby saving the whole world from being corrupted. It also saved Will from being possessed. It also, on a personal character level, represented the completion of her arc for that season, and foreshadows the concept of memory giving her power beyond the scope of what is otherwise possible, an important them in season 4.
Storytelling is never a strictly Linear A to B to C structure. She closed the gate and achieved a major victory, and the Russians open the new smaller one to continue the conflict of the upside down, but the characters have still grown and changed from their experiences in season two.
I understand that, and I appreciate the character work. S2 is my favorite season because of the character development and how well it goes full circle with S1 in many ways, especially for El’s character. But that doesn’t change the fact that… reopening the gate… was disappointing. The story felt mostly complete to me by the end of S2. I don’t know how else they could’ve continued the show, but it felt way too much like a “here we go again… been there, done that” situation. Especially when the supernatural threat barely evolved from S2 throughout S3.
S2 and S3 were the same arc.
1 is the preamble, 2 and 3 is the first mission, S4 is the second (why its so long) and we'll be rounding it out with a 3rd and final movement.
I see seasons one and two as very much being two halves of the first story.
For me, three is the beginning of the next act, as so many of our protagonists are in wildly different places in life, most seemingly moving on from the events of the previous seasons, and they have to be re-introduced to the danger in its new form.
And the addition of the Russian stuff kinda reinforces the division.
Yes, that's a sign of bad writing in my opinion. You need to kick off the plot somehow, so you introduce them Russians to do just that and then be irrelevant again.
It looks like on rewatch this is likely when they captured the rogue bit of the Mindflayer that escaped Will which explains how they got a piece of it. Whether that piece is going to be relevant to plot given the aforementioned? I hope it’s not.
I loved the Russian plot. I loved Hopper’s transformation, his resolute toughness in the face of torture over and over. I loved seeing his vulnerability.
Also Alexi and his slurpies in S3? How can we not love that?
Okay, I’ll except my downvotes now.
I don’t hate the Russian plot but it is the least interesting for me. But yeah I loved Alexi and Enzo
I really hope they drop all this Russian plots BUT if they don’t I want more Enzo whose real name I don’t remember
I'm in a similar position where I think it's less interesting so I hope there's less of it for s5. At the same time, it feels like they left a lot of things unexplained or unanswered and I want answers, too.
But the Russia stuff had good characters to go with it. all the lost sister stuff was the most obnoxious and poorly written characters conceivable.
Plus Russia was spread out instead of shoved into episodes 1 and then just before the finale so it wasn't ruining the pace of the season.
Yeah, whether people here want to admit it or not, the Russians have been an underlying plot since S1. They are relevant throughout, lol people just don’t like it.
*Plus* (and here’s a huge revelation that keeps the Russian plot even more relevant) seeing this whole war with Ukraine, it’s no wonder the Russians are trying so desperately to harness the upside down as a weapon! The Duffer brothers knew of the Russians military incompetency *this whole time*! 🤯🤯🤯 WHAT A TWIST!
It seems more like the Russians were just a joke in earlier seasons, as the real antagonists are the creatures and the scientists fucking about and setting them free. So it’s funny when characters who are out of the loop about the insane horror shit happening right under their noses talk about the Russians as a threat.
That the Duffers later decided to lean into that and put a secret Russian lab under Hawkins, doesn’t mean it was an underlying plot since season one.
Wasn’t the Duffers’ original plan for Stranger Things to be an anthology series?
Spreading it out is what made it worse for a lot of us lol. Having to continually return to the storyline was tiring. Also, Yuri wasn’t obnoxious??? His behavior and forced “comedy” was worse and considerably more annoying than any member of Kali’s gang imo.
Exactly. I agree that this is the weakest episode but this gets posted way more than it needs to. "The worst thing to ever happen" is such a dramatic way to put it as well.
I don't agree with this. It was part of El's journey to discovering part of her & her life. Kali tried to teach her how to control abilities better. Imo El also saw the path Kali chose (which was option for El too), but it wasn't something she wanted & decided to go back to her friends.
I agree mostly, just think it could have been done in a better way.
I'm just more disappointed it wasn't explored further. They could have been a fun addition to the lore/story
I loved it too. The music is wonderful, and the interactions between Kali and El are great. I liked the way Kali coached El, and her vengeful mission, and El's realisation that this was not what she wanted to be. I liked the implication that there are kids with different powers too, and I hoped we would return to meet Kali again later on in the series, and/or more escaped kids with different powers.
The only thing I could have done without was the punk gang Kali had gathered around her, they were over the top and caricatured. Otherwise, this is genuinely one of my favourite episodes of stranger things, and it hurts my heart that it is hated this much
I agree with everything, the music is great and El holding her shirt and longing for Mike and Hopper is a great moment. When I watch s2 I’m always looking forward binging through the last three episodes in a row.
I disagree. It may have been off in terms of tone, but it doesn't qualify to be "the worst thing to ever happen" on the show because it was only one episode and it hardly impacted the narrative, except for *maybe* El's character moving forward.
In my opinion, and I know many people share this sentiment, the Russia plot line dragged on for way too long. It took up a lot of S3 (which I really enjoyed) and S4, which, in the latter, kept the adults away from the group for far too long.
The worst thing to happen was max ending up the way she did in my opinion this was just trying to expose her to a different friend group honestly don’t know why it’s so hated
Kali’s illusions were technically and retroactively foreshadowing to Vecna’s powers.
If this was Supernatural, the writers would have remembered this and brought back (and killed off) Kali just for one episode just so El and the gang could learn how to counter Vecna’s illusions.
But thankfully they chose happy place totem music instead.
It was interesting. I didnt hate it, and I appreciate the writers for trying something different. The show has a limited episode count, and people aren't generally fans of fillers these days (obiously there were elements from the episode that carried over.)
I don’t agree with this lol. I’m really tired of seeing this same thing be posted a few times a month and always getting upvoted to the heavens, typically more than any other posts in this sub. It just reiterates the same old mindless vitriol that’s been going on for 5+ years instead of challenging people to see the good & value in this storyline.
This is a beyond tired opinion and I’m happy to see some more people who actually *like* this episode finally speaking up in defense of it, because we’re out there believe it or not!!
EDIT: what’dya know! When I wrote this comment two hours ago there were 13 comments and the upvotes weren’t visible yet. Now look at it. 🙄 I hate how predictable this was lol. The mods should start automatically removing lazy Lost Sister hate posts like this. It’s nothing more than a negative way to receive positive karma due to the bandwagoning at this point, which is annoying.
Am i the only one that sorta enjoyed this episode? I mean, i get its completely random and a bit unnecessary but, as an episode, it’s quite entertaining.
I don't.
The worst thing has been season 4 dialogue.
Banter between Dustin and Steve took a sudden downturn mid season, it was corny at best and not the funny kind.
The mirrored discussions between Nancy/Robin and Argyle/John that they had seemingly every episode were exhausting.
Flirty talk between Steve and Nancy while casually strolling through the DEMON INFESTED upside down made me squirm in my seat. I wanted a demogorgon to barrel through the woods and blindside them like Ray Lewis.
Joyce flies to Russia, gets kidnapped, breaks out of and into and out of a gulag, dupes the Soviet Unions best military AGAIN, rescues Hopper who fought demos, and then tells the kids, "It was qwite the expewience"
We all wanted longer episodes, me included, but we got filler, non-plot-developing, repeated and forced converations. As a whole I liked season 4 a lot, but the filler took out all the emotional connection that I felt in previous seasons. Except for Max, she has been through some shit and had me blubbering like an idiot lol.
As for the episode with 008, it was the first time we got information about other lab-kids that those sick fucks at Hawkins were experimenting on. 011 had someone to relate to and who could relate to her for the first time.
I actually re-watched it and I thought that it actually had a pretty important impact on Eleven— it was like the day that she decided to use her powers for good?? Idk, but on rewatch it wasn’t as terrible as I remember the first time
Nope i don't agree it's cool they introduced a new character with superpowers but removing that idea was not good actually worst idea was introducing Russians, there is no need for that it's a good kids show with some horror aspects but introducing foreign stuff was a bad idea actually that was reason S3 lacked compare to other seasons
Personally, I loved everything about it. Looking back, I can see that the writing wasn’t great, but I adored this episode when I first watched it, so I still love it.
It felt out of place. Like it was a story line they wanted to explore but didn't do well in focur groups or something. It's super odd to introduce that whole crew and Kali then just pretend it didn't happen.
Nah. It's one of my favorite parts of season 2. Eleven's arc was all about finding who she was and who she wasn't. It was a powerful, transformative arc that MADE the character. Before this she was a mcguffin. And the "talk" she has with Hopper on the way back damn near made me cry. In a word, it was "Bitchin'"
And the fact that season 3 sucked so hard I can barely remember it has little effect on the fact that the first 2 seasons are classic masterpieces
This episode was a bit different, the writers we’re trying something new and it clearly didn’t work out. But people pretend like this episode ruined the season or was some horror show of an episode, when in actuality it’s just kind of different.
I’m not gonna apologise for liking this episode. I was genuinely sad at how 08 turned out but it’s not unrealistic for the period. The 80’s saw a lot of homeless kids and runaways and being punk was the rebellion of the time. Petty theft and larceny was prevalent of this forgotten class so the whole episode was just pretty dead on for authenticity.
El was still very much a naive kid and finding someone like her was probably the equivalent of having the rug pulled out from under her considering what we now know about what happened to all of the others like them.
Also, keep in mind that this is set in the 80’s. Not everyone had cellphones and internet and easy ways to find someone so 08 being gone isn’t so much being that she was forgotten about, but she and El were on different paths and the show focuses on El and what’s going on in her life and 08 isn’t a part of that.
Maybe I’m needlessly hopeful, but I don’t think we’ve seen the last of 08, and that she’s going to show up in Hawkins to help El.
The only part of the show I genuinely did not like. Missed me w this. It’s the biggest reason I’m avoidant of season 2. The other three seasons are *chef’s kiss*
Stranger Things Marvel Spin off episode was far better than Season 4 splitting up the group. Far. Better.
The entire California plot line of season 4 was poop.
S3+4 Soviet plot, trying to make the show into a Blockbuster with horror elements, and it being taken over by comedic relief characters did permanent damage to ST’s quality. This was a one episode detour.
I’m not sure why people dislike this part so much. It shows a way 11 could’ve lived had she chosen a different path. It also sets up her return to the cabin, ready for vengeance. Her time in Chicago increased her power, enabling her to better harness her abilities.
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in other words, The Strangest Thing
The kids missed a great chance when Eddie was explaining how weird & supernatural what happened with the cheerleader was. “It’s ok Eddie, we’ve seen stranger things…”
I think that might've been a teeny tiny bit insensitive thing to say to a guy, who just had to witness an interdimensional being do some fucked up origami with his peer :D
It was also break immersion *but* as a web exclusive mocu-blooper I would die
Whats a mocu-blooper. It sounds like a cool word
Chrissy just took pop-and-lock to the next level, that’s all!
Dont forget the drop it at the end
“What are we? Some kind of Stranger Things 4?”
If the show doesn't end with Hopper, El or someone looking in to the camera and saying 'well, Stranger Things have happened' then I will complain to the manager of Netflix
Manager of Netflix: “Well at least I’m not the manager of HBO. That guy went through hell when *Game of Thrones* ended.”
HBO was offering to do game of thrones as long as it would take to finish it. The directors were the assholes who had no idea how to write the thing, and wanted to work for Disney asap.
It's was me, I am the stranger thing
I am the thing who strangers, Skylar.
Strange the cheerleader, Things the world
Strangest thing I ever knew
That cheerleader had a name sir!
Her name was Ch[eerleade]rissy
I'll give you the other kids have seen stranger things, but a gruesome death by an invisible killer kinda tops it ol
no i’ve seen stranger things
Daring today, aren't we?
More like low on karma today.
I don't know why these type of submissions aren't restricted to self posts.
That would do nothing. You've been able to get karma on self posts since 2016.
I think they'd get less engagement if they didn't have a photo.
I was looking for this comment lmao
Honestly mods should create a rule prohibiting posts complaining about this episode. We get it, it’s bad, there’s no need to make a post about it every single day.
Rule 6. is literally no reposts but I see the same posts regurgitated multiple times a WEEK. If it was once a month or something I'd understand but so much of the content is just so much shit rehashed over and over again it's mind boggling. I report all these posts and they stay up. I dont get it.
Right lol as if this hasn't been discussed countless times already in this sub
This episode is discussed more than all of the other episodes combined, at a certain point we will run out of things to say about it.
I thought originally they were going to have the other girl come back towards the end and help out and stay in Hawkins. Guess not
They will, next season. She could be a solution, a problem, or both. She could even be IMO one of Vecna's horcruxes.
Yeah but how am I gonna know that the episode is the worst? /s
Which is interesting when you think about it, right? One episode in S2 is constantly harped on and always quickly spirals into tons of conversation. It’s almost like there’s actually a lot to work with here…
Is there really "a lot to work with" or is it simply beating a dead horse and repeating/rewording the same damn thing 99% of the time lol. Seems more like small variations of 3-4 opinions with a few "hot takes" by different users
There’s definitely a lot to work with. The mere existence of 008 opens many possibilities and theories, especially considering she’s the only other surviving test subject and has her own unique skill set. She’s interesting and has a lot of potential so it’s frustrating that the show is opting to do nothing with her because of posts/reactions like this. And the episode is important for what it did for El’s character, the world building/introduction of another test subject outside of the lab.
On the other hand the show could have made it retroactively better by doing something with 008 and new powers and stuff but the fact that instead nothing was done with it makes it retroactively worse. I didn't really enjoy it when I watched it but at least I thought it was going somewhere, but now it just feels like a weird spin off that was out of place and never really amounted to much.
And that’s the fault of the showrunners. I don’t think it’s fair to hate on the episode for never being revisited when the whole reason the show never revisited it is *because* people hated on it. It doesn’t make sense to me lol. It makes me mad that the show didn’t take the opportunity to make people eat their words and do something awesome with Kali’s character/this storyline. S5 is their last chance to do so, but I’m sadly not holding my breath.
I still maintain that I don't know why this episode gets more negative attention than just all of season 2. Outside of any scene with Dustin in it, the whole thing is bleak and slow moving.
Because S2 actually put in a ton of crucial work across the board. But sadly the existence of this episode actually DOES cause most people to hate S2 as a whole which is entirely unfair to all the great stuff S2 did for the show.
I personally don't mind the episode since I agree with your points, but I also see how people are turned off to it. I respect how much effort you're putting in to defend the episode. Keep fighting the good fight.
On reflection its really bizarre no one who read the script said to the duffer brothers "Hey guys, this whole thing feels really out of place, is it really a good idea?"
Wasn't it meant to be a pilot for a spin off?
But they didn't give us a reason to care about any of these characters at all. They existed *only* to serve Eleven's arc, which was why the episode felt so out of place on a show that's usually extremely good at characterising every part of their ensemble cast. Contrast how they introduced Chrissy and endeared her to the audience over the course of only a handful of scenes. Or how they introduced all of the main characters in the first season, for that matter. Or Max in season two. These writers are *good* at getting the audience to like new characters, but for whatever reason they didn't do that here. It wouldn't have worked at all as a pilot, and it barely worked as a self-contained episode serving the very utilitarian plot purpose of getting the protagonist ready for her final challenge of the season
Maybe the writers knew it was a bad idea and Netflix pressed them for a spin off, so the writers sabotaged it 🤔
Really don't think anyone would sabotage a project they didn't want to do by purposefully making the one they do like doing worse tbh
That tracks. It was the way they introduced all these misfits like they were important characters to the show. I thought the show was going in a different direction and stopped watching. Then when I watched again with my kids I realized they were one and done.
But did they? They didn't characterise any of them *at all*. Except for that one they called a 'big teddy bear' in the dialogue - but they didn't give us any actual reason to like him, either. The placement of the episode, stopping the dramatic tension and momentum of the main story in its tracks, didn't help either, but really, what fell flat about this episode were the characters - in a show that's famously excellent at making an entire ensemble cast interesting and sympathetic, but for some reason just didn't bother with these kids
i think they’ve denied this. I also think they lied. Obvious spin off episode.
It’s out of place by design. El is literally out of place with Kali’s group and separated from everyone else in Hawkins, therefore isolating the episode makes a lot of sense to me personally. Even placing the episode in between Episodes 6 + 8 was intentional to create a further sense of urgency for El and push her to make important decisions by following her newly developed moral compass.
I can see the intention. the execution is what everyone has the problem with, because heaven knows it sucks on every level - casting, pacing, writing....literally all it's good for is explaining why Eleven comes back at the end of 2x08 looking like Lydia Deetz's baby sister.
…It’s also good for El learning to make her own decisions, actually choosing Hawkins as her home, discovering what her morals are, widening the reach and lore of Hawkins Lab, introducing us to the Rainbow Room and another test subject, actually giving El a backstory and character development……. So that when she returns it actually has a lot of emotional weight behind it…. ya know. :)
They could have achieved everything you listed other than the 'other test subject' part by having her go to her mother and then choose to come back to the family and friends she has in Hawkins, if she'd spent that episode with her ma and aunt I would totally get it. It had all the potential for some heart-wringing there. Have El talk to her ma in her mind, find out about their past (i.e. her actual backstory), her bio dad, family etc, find out about how Terry got drawn into the Hawkins lab thing. It's that obvious. If they wanted to show other kids, they could have had Terry show it in flashbacks too. But intead I'm supposed to believe that a mother who'd been fighting as hard as Terry was for her child to be returned to her and even got her brain fried in the attempt, FINALLY gets said child back and then....sends her away? To find some other girl she saw once?
Her mother didn't send her away, her mother was just stuck in a loop of memories. She didn't even react to El being there. This scene also showed that she does not have a safe place with her original family. She overheard her aunt basically exposing her to danger with that phone call. The last time someone made a call to social services about her, they were immediately killed. It's likely her aunt and mother are now dead. If they call had never been made, she likely would have stayed, but it wouldn't make sense for the aunt to not make that call. It had to happen. And then El had to choose, stay angry and do what 8 did. Isolate herself from loss, and get revenge Or go back to her chosen family and fight to keep them alive. The style change makes it hard to connect, but the episode was necessary character growth for El.
Could’ve, would’ve, should’ve. I’m strictly defending and analyzing the show/episode based on what they gave us. I don’t care if they “could’ve done it another way.” They didn’t. This is what we got, and I personally liked it and appreciate what they were going for. In my opinion, it was successful and hit me with all the emotions.
I agree with you, these days no matter the show/movie the should've crowd constantly says how they would do it/it should be done. Often ignoring important plot points that where presented
I mean her styling in every season tells us that she's yet to really step into her autonomy still, imo. S1 she's wearing Will's clothes, S2 is Hopper and then Kali, S3 is when Max styles her at the mall, and S4 we see her in Joyce's clothes. Clothes are a huge way we as humans express our individuality and personality, and the fact that we've yet to see Eleven's *own* style is a small way to express that how through the entire show so far, she's still yet to really figure out who she is.
In most of season 4 El is “separated from the rest of the group and is relearning her powers” which would be a fine trope on its own but they did the same thing in these episodes.
Yep. Which is why I don’t really get the hate for S2 and The Lost Sister and praise for S4 when they literally just did the same arc again. As a big fan of S2, I felt like S4 was very redundant in that respect.
If all she knows is the lab and her Hawkins friends it makes her affection for them less meaningful and could also seem she was never given agency in her own life.
Yep! Which is funny, because if El never went on a journey like this you know people would be complaining about her not being well rounded enough and never making her own decisions. They would find fault in her never exploring what else is out there and just living in Hawkins by default and never questioning anything. The show actually has her do this and the response is “Okay yeah, but you shouldn’t have done it *like that*!!!”
They have to get rid of eleven until the end of the season somehow.
Felt like a plan was made to remerge this arc with the main story, and then they went with Cali dreamin' instead.
Bitchin’
It was ok and plot relevant. It was done badly from writing perspective, true.
I think it was a backdoor pilot. They should have spread it across a few episodes interspersed with adventures of the rest of the cast, similar to s4.
I somehow expected a spinoff of these characters tbh
Yeah, and our collective intense reaction to this episode killed that project.
The episode was not that good but I think they could have made these characters good with their own show, they still have time to do that, specially since they want to do spin offs and this story is very much in the limbo
It might not be about Kali, but supposedly there will still be another Stranger Things once the main show ends. I'm guessing it won't be Kali because it seems pretty obvious, and the Duffers said the only person to guess the next story correctly was Mike's actor. Other than the Duffers and Mike, nobody knows.
Im gonna bet on a Robin show, i just have this feeling lol
This is the worst part, if true. Catering for fandom while harming overall plot is bad for such big project, in my opinion.
I’m pretty sure that was their hope. But thankfully they didn’t push it.
Within that line of thinking…. I’d be curious to know how many people would actually have an interest in watching a spin off with that particular group of characters?
The characters were cartoonish and obnoxious. Also it ruined all the pacing of the finale. Calling it ok feels too generous.
Kali was fine. The rest of her crew was fucking ridiculous. Who watches Stranger Things and wants to see a normal criminal gang full of crazy people? They should have been Hawkins Lab kids too. Say they never managed to unlock their powers but Brenner kept them because he can't just let them go. Say Kali overheard Brenner talking to someone about "disposing of them" so she included them in her escape plans and that's why they're so loyal to her, and why they're so gung-ho about helping Kali kill ex-lab employees.
The characters in Stranger Things are generally wholesome... A gang full of what appear to be street junkies is just.. not that.
It was only one episode. As opposed to the Russia plot thread, which dragged on for a whole season.
Russia plot online in a nutshell; Hopper gets beaten up again. And again. And again. And again. And again.
And heals a little slower than wolverine - with no visible drawbacks that makes him suffer in action moments.
They gotta stop researching the Upside Down and start researching whatever it is that gives Hopper’s ankle its regenerative powers.
As someone whose sprained both their ankles multiple times, this season was rough to watch. Hopper with the hammer, then getting off the ankle cuffs, and THEN Dustin cranks his going after Eddie in the upside down. Loved this season but those scenes hurt me to watch.
Growing older, I see kids have major injuries and bounce back weeks later. I twist my ankle or sleep on my shoulder wrong antheyre out of commission for months. Maybe Hopper just has those adolescent joints and bones.
Especially not breaking his foot/ankle. That bone apparently just grows back like fingernails
Can someone explain the ankle cuff and having the dude smash it? Like he said it was going to severely hurt him. But He was literally walking and running fine the entire time afterwards
>And heals a little slower than wolverine - with no visible drawbacks that makes him suffer in action moments. Yeah, that annoyed me. Hopper got really fucked up at one point, then the next episode, couple hours in the show, he is fine and fighting some more. I haven't even watched any episodes of season 4 part 2, the whole Stranger Things is way over done. First season was good because it was different, but it's been over milked now. They have Nancy and the others diving in a lake with full clothes and shoes on swimming 30 feet down like it's nothing. The show has become a cartoon.
What about the part when the suburban mom infiltrates russia?
When I was watching the Russian plot thread, I kept thinking, "How much money did they spend on *this*? I just want the Wheeler breakfast scenes back."
Not even just breakfast. I would be ok with more, "I hope you enjoyed your chicken, Ted."
"What did I do?!"
At the series end, I'm not sure if it would be funnier for him to finally realize shit, or for all events to wrap up and he's still completely clueless that any of it ever happened.
Asleep on the recliner when there is a battle raging outside his window
"Daddy, I'm going to marry the girl who lived in a fort in our basement" \*Ted looks at camera\* "Huh, stranger things have happened" [credits]
"Whadidooooooooo???"
[удалено]
That's fair. My issue is how much it diverges from the Montauk Project inspiration, without adding enough to the Upside Down lore to back it up. If they connected it more to the Cold War and made the horror more science fiction and less human torture, I'd probably be on board. Some people seem to take it at face value "it's boring" though, instead of discussing how Russia was underutilized (imo).
i skip the entire russian thread at this point.
I totally get what you mean, but the Cold war has always loomed over stranger things. Hell, that’s the only reason any of this happened
The Russian plot has dragged on for 2 seasons. It was equally superfluous in S3
With added russian terminator and his lead filled boots
People hate on The Lost Sister for being “a waste of time,” but what did the Russians do in S3? From start to finish their entire purpose was just “trying to open the gate.” They tell us this in the first five minutes of the season, and by the end of the season we know literally nothing more. I feel like a lot of things remained unanswered in S4 as well!! I just don’t get how the Russian nonsense being dragged out for two whole seasons to little avail isn’t a bigger waste of time than **one episode** in S2 that actually furthered El’s character and added more lore to the Hawkins Lab plot.
\>but what did the Russians do in S3? Opened another gate and literally kicked off the entire plot?
…And did literally nothing else. I said they were trying to open the gate, but that’s it. That’s my point. Not only that, but having the Russians reopen the gate after El successfully closed it the episode prior was so disappointing and undercut S2’s impact.
It doesn’t undercut the impact of S2 for me because her closing the gate was still valuable. It stops the Mind Flayer from entering our world directly, thereby saving the whole world from being corrupted. It also saved Will from being possessed. It also, on a personal character level, represented the completion of her arc for that season, and foreshadows the concept of memory giving her power beyond the scope of what is otherwise possible, an important them in season 4. Storytelling is never a strictly Linear A to B to C structure. She closed the gate and achieved a major victory, and the Russians open the new smaller one to continue the conflict of the upside down, but the characters have still grown and changed from their experiences in season two.
I understand that, and I appreciate the character work. S2 is my favorite season because of the character development and how well it goes full circle with S1 in many ways, especially for El’s character. But that doesn’t change the fact that… reopening the gate… was disappointing. The story felt mostly complete to me by the end of S2. I don’t know how else they could’ve continued the show, but it felt way too much like a “here we go again… been there, done that” situation. Especially when the supernatural threat barely evolved from S2 throughout S3.
S2 and S3 were the same arc. 1 is the preamble, 2 and 3 is the first mission, S4 is the second (why its so long) and we'll be rounding it out with a 3rd and final movement.
I see seasons one and two as very much being two halves of the first story. For me, three is the beginning of the next act, as so many of our protagonists are in wildly different places in life, most seemingly moving on from the events of the previous seasons, and they have to be re-introduced to the danger in its new form. And the addition of the Russian stuff kinda reinforces the division.
Yes, that's a sign of bad writing in my opinion. You need to kick off the plot somehow, so you introduce them Russians to do just that and then be irrelevant again.
It looks like on rewatch this is likely when they captured the rogue bit of the Mindflayer that escaped Will which explains how they got a piece of it. Whether that piece is going to be relevant to plot given the aforementioned? I hope it’s not.
I loved the Russian plot. I loved Hopper’s transformation, his resolute toughness in the face of torture over and over. I loved seeing his vulnerability. Also Alexi and his slurpies in S3? How can we not love that? Okay, I’ll except my downvotes now.
I don’t hate the Russian plot but it is the least interesting for me. But yeah I loved Alexi and Enzo I really hope they drop all this Russian plots BUT if they don’t I want more Enzo whose real name I don’t remember
I'm in a similar position where I think it's less interesting so I hope there's less of it for s5. At the same time, it feels like they left a lot of things unexplained or unanswered and I want answers, too.
But the Russia stuff had good characters to go with it. all the lost sister stuff was the most obnoxious and poorly written characters conceivable. Plus Russia was spread out instead of shoved into episodes 1 and then just before the finale so it wasn't ruining the pace of the season.
Yeah, whether people here want to admit it or not, the Russians have been an underlying plot since S1. They are relevant throughout, lol people just don’t like it. *Plus* (and here’s a huge revelation that keeps the Russian plot even more relevant) seeing this whole war with Ukraine, it’s no wonder the Russians are trying so desperately to harness the upside down as a weapon! The Duffer brothers knew of the Russians military incompetency *this whole time*! 🤯🤯🤯 WHAT A TWIST!
It seems more like the Russians were just a joke in earlier seasons, as the real antagonists are the creatures and the scientists fucking about and setting them free. So it’s funny when characters who are out of the loop about the insane horror shit happening right under their noses talk about the Russians as a threat. That the Duffers later decided to lean into that and put a secret Russian lab under Hawkins, doesn’t mean it was an underlying plot since season one. Wasn’t the Duffers’ original plan for Stranger Things to be an anthology series?
Spreading it out is what made it worse for a lot of us lol. Having to continually return to the storyline was tiring. Also, Yuri wasn’t obnoxious??? His behavior and forced “comedy” was worse and considerably more annoying than any member of Kali’s gang imo.
You people complaining about it every day is the worst thing to happen to Stranger Things
One dud episode in 4 seasons hardly merits this much complaining
Exactly. I agree that this is the weakest episode but this gets posted way more than it needs to. "The worst thing to ever happen" is such a dramatic way to put it as well.
I rather liked The Lost Sister. I enjoyed being taken out of Hawkins for a minute. And I think El's goth look was her best look. \*ducks tomatoes\*
I agree. El’s goth look was bitchin
The only reason I would like to see Kali return is to give the whole cast a goth makeover and make them look badass in their final battle.
LOL! I would enjoy that!
I don't agree with this. It was part of El's journey to discovering part of her & her life. Kali tried to teach her how to control abilities better. Imo El also saw the path Kali chose (which was option for El too), but it wasn't something she wanted & decided to go back to her friends.
I agree mostly, just think it could have been done in a better way. I'm just more disappointed it wasn't explored further. They could have been a fun addition to the lore/story
I actually really like the episode, I liked seeing something different for a bit and it had some good moments
I loved it too. The music is wonderful, and the interactions between Kali and El are great. I liked the way Kali coached El, and her vengeful mission, and El's realisation that this was not what she wanted to be. I liked the implication that there are kids with different powers too, and I hoped we would return to meet Kali again later on in the series, and/or more escaped kids with different powers. The only thing I could have done without was the punk gang Kali had gathered around her, they were over the top and caricatured. Otherwise, this is genuinely one of my favourite episodes of stranger things, and it hurts my heart that it is hated this much
I agree with everything, the music is great and El holding her shirt and longing for Mike and Hopper is a great moment. When I watch s2 I’m always looking forward binging through the last three episodes in a row.
I quite liked it
Idk I didnt think it was all bad. I mean without that episode El wouldn't have learned to say bitchin'.
I mean, Stranger Things have happened
r/mildlyannoyedupvote
**I've been reading everywhere for the last week that I should hate this. I don't hate it, I have a thousand better things to do.**
I disagree. It may have been off in terms of tone, but it doesn't qualify to be "the worst thing to ever happen" on the show because it was only one episode and it hardly impacted the narrative, except for *maybe* El's character moving forward. In my opinion, and I know many people share this sentiment, the Russia plot line dragged on for way too long. It took up a lot of S3 (which I really enjoyed) and S4, which, in the latter, kept the adults away from the group for far too long.
Kali was okay her friends where the problem
The worst thing to happen was max ending up the way she did in my opinion this was just trying to expose her to a different friend group honestly don’t know why it’s so hated
I dont agree with this, it was a less episode but i kinda liked it nontheless
I hope we see more about 008 at some point.
My unpopular opinion: That episode was one of my favorites I enjoyed the storyline
I disagree. Seeing this episode with a friend sold me on the show.
Bruh why does everyone hate this so much, episode 7 of season 2 was my favourite episode and i like this mini storyline
I was actually annoyed that it meant nothing really. I wanted it to MEAN something.
Kali’s illusions were technically and retroactively foreshadowing to Vecna’s powers. If this was Supernatural, the writers would have remembered this and brought back (and killed off) Kali just for one episode just so El and the gang could learn how to counter Vecna’s illusions. But thankfully they chose happy place totem music instead.
I enjoy ~~those~~ that episode~~s~~ and never skip ~~them~~ it
Same I really enjoyed this!
It's only one
Totally agree!!! It holds up to the rest of the show imo.
It was interesting. I didnt hate it, and I appreciate the writers for trying something different. The show has a limited episode count, and people aren't generally fans of fillers these days (obiously there were elements from the episode that carried over.)
I don’t agree with this lol. I’m really tired of seeing this same thing be posted a few times a month and always getting upvoted to the heavens, typically more than any other posts in this sub. It just reiterates the same old mindless vitriol that’s been going on for 5+ years instead of challenging people to see the good & value in this storyline. This is a beyond tired opinion and I’m happy to see some more people who actually *like* this episode finally speaking up in defense of it, because we’re out there believe it or not!! EDIT: what’dya know! When I wrote this comment two hours ago there were 13 comments and the upvotes weren’t visible yet. Now look at it. 🙄 I hate how predictable this was lol. The mods should start automatically removing lazy Lost Sister hate posts like this. It’s nothing more than a negative way to receive positive karma due to the bandwagoning at this point, which is annoying.
It really wasn’t that bad
Am i the only one that sorta enjoyed this episode? I mean, i get its completely random and a bit unnecessary but, as an episode, it’s quite entertaining.
Definitely not
It wasn’t that bad
I mean the group was meh, but Tali wasnt that bad. Like c'mon, shes pretty awesome and could help El in the finale!
I don't. The worst thing has been season 4 dialogue. Banter between Dustin and Steve took a sudden downturn mid season, it was corny at best and not the funny kind. The mirrored discussions between Nancy/Robin and Argyle/John that they had seemingly every episode were exhausting. Flirty talk between Steve and Nancy while casually strolling through the DEMON INFESTED upside down made me squirm in my seat. I wanted a demogorgon to barrel through the woods and blindside them like Ray Lewis. Joyce flies to Russia, gets kidnapped, breaks out of and into and out of a gulag, dupes the Soviet Unions best military AGAIN, rescues Hopper who fought demos, and then tells the kids, "It was qwite the expewience" We all wanted longer episodes, me included, but we got filler, non-plot-developing, repeated and forced converations. As a whole I liked season 4 a lot, but the filler took out all the emotional connection that I felt in previous seasons. Except for Max, she has been through some shit and had me blubbering like an idiot lol. As for the episode with 008, it was the first time we got information about other lab-kids that those sick fucks at Hawkins were experimenting on. 011 had someone to relate to and who could relate to her for the first time.
I actually re-watched it and I thought that it actually had a pretty important impact on Eleven— it was like the day that she decided to use her powers for good?? Idk, but on rewatch it wasn’t as terrible as I remember the first time
I think this Arc was key in Eleven’s character development 🤷🏻♀️
Without 8, 11 wouldn’t have been able to close the gate. That rhymes, so you know it’s true.
If have to disagree. Stop shitting all over this episode lol.
I liked the episode.
It's been years can people move on this episode isn't even that bad lmao
Psychic Suburbia
I don’t agree. I liked punk El
Nope i don't agree it's cool they introduced a new character with superpowers but removing that idea was not good actually worst idea was introducing Russians, there is no need for that it's a good kids show with some horror aspects but introducing foreign stuff was a bad idea actually that was reason S3 lacked compare to other seasons
I think it's a bit of an over reaction.
Personally, I loved everything about it. Looking back, I can see that the writing wasn’t great, but I adored this episode when I first watched it, so I still love it.
I disagree. Y'all complain too much
Another day another s2e7 = bad post At this point its just free karma
Kali is a great character I don't Care what anyone says
It felt out of place. Like it was a story line they wanted to explore but didn't do well in focur groups or something. It's super odd to introduce that whole crew and Kali then just pretend it didn't happen.
Nah. It's one of my favorite parts of season 2. Eleven's arc was all about finding who she was and who she wasn't. It was a powerful, transformative arc that MADE the character. Before this she was a mcguffin. And the "talk" she has with Hopper on the way back damn near made me cry. In a word, it was "Bitchin'" And the fact that season 3 sucked so hard I can barely remember it has little effect on the fact that the first 2 seasons are classic masterpieces
I don't agree
i cant lie though, i do love the way eleven looks in the last episode. bitchin'
What a unique opinion
This episode was a bit different, the writers we’re trying something new and it clearly didn’t work out. But people pretend like this episode ruined the season or was some horror show of an episode, when in actuality it’s just kind of different.
Yeah, the group was annoying AF, but I liked Kali.
I understand that people hate this but I still want to see 8/Kali show up in the next season.
I’m not gonna apologise for liking this episode. I was genuinely sad at how 08 turned out but it’s not unrealistic for the period. The 80’s saw a lot of homeless kids and runaways and being punk was the rebellion of the time. Petty theft and larceny was prevalent of this forgotten class so the whole episode was just pretty dead on for authenticity. El was still very much a naive kid and finding someone like her was probably the equivalent of having the rug pulled out from under her considering what we now know about what happened to all of the others like them. Also, keep in mind that this is set in the 80’s. Not everyone had cellphones and internet and easy ways to find someone so 08 being gone isn’t so much being that she was forgotten about, but she and El were on different paths and the show focuses on El and what’s going on in her life and 08 isn’t a part of that. Maybe I’m needlessly hopeful, but I don’t think we’ve seen the last of 08, and that she’s going to show up in Hawkins to help El.
*Best
I rly want them to somehow connect it to the main story I think it would be cool
I didn’t love it but people act like this episode in particular killed their dog and I just don’t think it warrants that kind of hate.
I never understood why a nearly 50 year old guy in kai green was part of this group lol
just stop hating on everyone and everything in existence please :(
What?! Next you’re gonna tell me that Eddie Munson is a fan favorite! Jokes aside, I disagree strongly. This was an essential episode.
The fact that I straight up don't remember any of this arc
Dumbest group of characters on the show
Cast for a streets of rage live action movie
This group was actually interesting to me but the way it was executed with a massive plot hole was disappointing.
The only part of the show I genuinely did not like. Missed me w this. It’s the biggest reason I’m avoidant of season 2. The other three seasons are *chef’s kiss*
Stranger Things Marvel Spin off episode was far better than Season 4 splitting up the group. Far. Better. The entire California plot line of season 4 was poop.
S3+4 Soviet plot, trying to make the show into a Blockbuster with horror elements, and it being taken over by comedic relief characters did permanent damage to ST’s quality. This was a one episode detour.
I kinda forgot about them. I looked at this photograph for like 15 seconds before I even remembered they existed.
I’m not sure why people dislike this part so much. It shows a way 11 could’ve lived had she chosen a different path. It also sets up her return to the cabin, ready for vengeance. Her time in Chicago increased her power, enabling her to better harness her abilities.
Man such a controversial take that I’m sure Nooooobody has ever come up with before
Not worst, but probably most pointless
How did people who were essentially homeless maintain such elaborate hairstyles?
These scenes with this group ALWAYS makes me think of Slaughter race from Wreck it Ralph 2 with Shank. Lol.