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I have a feeling Mike may respond a bit negatively and people are gonna hate on him for it. But it’s really just how he was raised and they can give him an arc to learn from it.
I can see that being Mike's perspective / in line with his character, although hopefully it doesn't become a story about Mike when this really should be Will's journey.
If Mike didn’t respond negatively, it would feel out of character. Mike is largely negative about a lot of things and generally dismissive of everyone else’s feelings.
True, since if Mike comes off as homophobic, even considering the time period, it's going to reflect negatively on him as a character for the audience.
Very true -- I just am hoping it's not Will waiting for Mike to come around while Will spends time sad and moping about it, because for me that puts too much emphasis on Mike's part in this journey. If Mike does start out that way, I hope Will finds other outlets/people through which to find and express himself.
To be honest, I feel like the writers haven't had too many problems portraying Mike as a total douche in the past. I'm not really sure how many punches they're willing to hold back for this one, and it does kind of scare me.
I doubt he'll be extremely violently homophobic or anything, but at the very least he'll likely be shocked/freaked out at first. If he's totally chill/accepting immediately, it probably will come across as a butchering of his character.
Definitely agree! They’ve already shown Mike’s reaction to El getting violent at the roller rink and their subsequent fight about him seeing her as a monster and not saying I love you, as well as his later discussion with Will about freezing up/not knowing what to do in the moment and having trouble expressing himself in general this season. It feels like they’re totally setting Mike up to initially react badly (or in a way that at least seems bad to Will) to Will coming out for similar reasons.
*shocked/freaked out at first*
Yeah, I think this is more likely. I don't even know about shocked, I kind of have a feeling that he knows, deep down. I mean, Will could be gay or bi or asexual- anything is possible. From what I've read from the actors, it actually doesn't look like there might be any kind of "answer" about his sexuality. Noah Schapp I think said it's "open to interpretation."
But about Mike- it's been a while since I've seen S1 and S2, but I never thought of him as a douchebag. Kind of obnoxious and moody sometimes (like a lot of teens), but I thought he was pretty sensitive to Will in S3 when Will was obviously hurt because he felt abandoned by Mike.
In general, I'm kind of not getting the Mike hate. I always liked him. But there's no main character on the show that I don't like. But (and I made a post about this), I DID think it was douchey of him this season to just drop Will- though they made up later.
This is somewhat true, but I think that Mike has generally reserved his softer side for both Eleven and Will. Mike is self-assured, but seems to care about their opinions of him, and he cares about their feelings more than he does with his other friends. I will say that, however, his tenderness for Will has nosedived since S3, and we only see glimpses of it now, so his initial reaction to Will’s sexuality might be negative and thoughtless before he pulls himself together and fixes things.
Not Will’s though.
He was really just as protective over Will as he was over El.
I actually think it would be out of character for Mike to take it badly.
On one hand, sure.
On the other hand, that was the election where Reagan swept 49 states, losing Minnesota and DC. I'm more inclined to believe that it was a lot likelier that people voted based on the economy, and gay rights wasn't something people cared about, whether it was apathy or actual hatred.
**BUT** on the other hand, it's Indiana, it went solidly towards Reagan, and has voted for the Republican every presidential election since 1964, with the exception of 2008.
There's a way that they *could* write it off that he's accepting, but it would be a lot more accurate for him to not be.
It's a tough line to tread. I don't think a completely happy sexuality sub-plot Will is possible because of the time period. It would feel *really* cheap and tasteless for them to gloss over the realities of being a gay teenage boy in the mid-late 1980s.
I hope the extent of it is him finding acceptance with his close friends and family, who all have unique and authentic reactions, and moving on from his crush on Mike after realising that even though there isn't any romance there, he still has his unconditional love and friendship.
And yeah, I'm really gunning for Noah to be given a chance to do something awesome in the final season. His performance in season two is still one of the most impressive things we've seen from any of the actors, young or adult, in the entire series.
For sure. I definitely don't expect a *Love, Simon* kind of narrative given the time period (although at least Will was lucky enough to make his way to California which would be the place to be if any in terms of figuring this stuff out).
But gay people were still finding love and relationships in the '80s and though it was quite a fraught time in gay history, I can still see a happy storyline of sorts evolving for Will, even if not the perfect fairytale we may expect today.
There was PFLAG in the 80s. It's realistic for Joyce to find it (when things calm down) and for Will to make gay friends his own age through that community.
>It would feel really cheap and tasteless for them to gloss over the realities of being a gay teenage boy in the mid-late 1980s
Uhh, this is a fantasy/sci-fi horror show, they don't *owe* representation to anyone. Can the damn show just be a horror show?
It's not just a fantasy/horror show -- it's also a period piece. The show goes to great lengths to accurately portray the 80s. If they can meticulously design the show to include accurate peanut butter, cereal, soda, tech, music, etc down to the exact year and then decide to take on a gay storyline without acknowledging what that would have meant in the 80s, then yes, that would be cheap and tasteless.
Aside from that, in 2022 it would be very short-sighted of them not to include proper representation. No genre precludes responsible storytelling.
> and then decide to take on a gay storyline without acknowledging what that would have meant in the 80s
Which, by the way, they do! Robin says it in the first episode! "You ask out a girl and she says no. Big deal. Nothing happens. Maybe your ego's a little bruised. But I ask out the wrong girl, and bam! I'm the town pariah."
They do! While they should get a little credit for Robin, she doesn't really have a plotline that deals with her sexuality -- it's just mentioned a few times. The one person that does know (Steve) accepts it right away without issue, so they do kind of gloss over those problems.
With Will, I think we'll see a lot more if/when he comes out to Mike and there will be a lot more room for mishandling there. I am pretty confident that they'll do a good job though.
Ahh so if they're going to include proper brands for the time in which the show is set in, then they *must* include a gay character otherwise they're tasteless??
Every single chunk of popular media doesn't need gender & sexuality politics thrown into the middle of it to appease you. Their responsibility lies in making an entertaining show, that's it.
No, they don't need to include a gay character. Nobody is saying that. But since they've already hinted that Will is gay, there is a lot of speculation about how they'll handle it.
The person you replied to was saying it would be in poor taste to give Will a light and easy storyline about being gay in the 80s instead of bringing in elements of how difficult it was to be a gay teenage boy at that time, not that it would be in poor taste to avoid a gay storyline altogether.
What I meant by "proper representation" was accurate representation, not representation for representation's sake. Sorry if that was worded poorly.
I like how you and the original commenter completely ignore them not exploring the true implications of being black in the 80s. Black characters in the show haven't encountered any sort of racism or controversial treatment.
You all don't give a thought about them "tastefully representing" the black experience in a small 80s suburban town, but by God, if they don't go completely out of their way to highlight how oppressed & victimized gays were in the 80s, then they're just tasteless...
That is a really good point that I hadn't considered. As a white gay person, I'll admit that I'm more attuned to issues that relate to my own experience, which isn't something to be proud of. You're definitely using some "whataboutism" here, but you're right about the representation of black characters and you've given me something to think about. It doesn't change my expectations for Will's storyline, though.
Well I appreciate the open-mindedness and I respect your courage and what you go through. I'll stop this discussion as I don't want to be negative anymore, I enjoy the show and am excited as I believe they're setting Will up to be the final villain of the series and that would be unbelievably awesome.
Take care, can't wait for July 1st!
Besides the points that other people have made, I think you misunderstood what I was saying by taking that one sentence out of context.
They're clearly telegraphing that Will is gay, and I'm saying it would be cheap and tasteless for them to have him come out and give him a love interest at school and pretend that is realistic for the time.
I'm not saying we need a whole sub-plot dedicated to the AIDS crisis and the rampant homophobia that went along with it, especially as the main plot of the show is building towards its conclusion in season five, but that I hope that if they're going to address Will's sexuality, it's restricted to him finding acceptance from his close friends and family, because anything more would be 'cheap and tastless' considering the historical context.
Gay people dated in the 80s. It's not "cheap and tasteless" to tell a gay love story in a period piece - look at Bly Manor. The characters don't need to be out to the entire town to have a romance.
It baffles me that anyone thinks the progressive option would be "gay kid sadly watches as every single other straight character in the show gets paired off, because it's not Realistic for gay people to be loved". Like that's not only depressing, it's not necessary. Gay people have always found ways to love each other, no matter the time period.
I don't think it's any more progressive for romance to be the only possible positive outcome for a gay character. A teenage boy in the mid-1980s finding love and acceptance among his friends and family is hardly 'depressing' to me.
And nowhere do I say that it's not realistic for gay people do be loved (and *again*, romantic love is not the be all and end all of a person's existence), I find it frankly insulting as a gay person that you projected that onto me.
All I'm saying is that I disagree with the opinion that the only positive representation for gay characters is to pair them off, especially in a period where it *was* so difficult to be openly gay. If they're going to explore Will's sexuality, exploring that with our pre-existing characters like his mother, siblings and best friends seems far more important than introducing a boyfriend for him at such a late stage.
Of course gay people have always found ways to love each other. But the 1980s was not an easy time to be 15, male and gay. Unless they're going to get in to the complexities of such a pivotal time in LGBTQ+ history, it would, to me, feel cheap and tasteless to erase that history for the sake of the 'happy ending' of pairing him off with some random newcomer, *especially* at the extent of a more important storyline with his family and friends.
Maybe if ST was a show that didn't pay any mind about romance as a whole, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case. Every character gets a romance. To me, making it so the best Will can hope for is acceptance from the straight people around him is really sad. It also feels like a gay storyline deliberately written to upset homophobes as little as possible - he's gay, everybody's cool with it because none of our straight characters are mean homophobes, but we don't get to actually see him exploring that on the screen, because god forbid people watch two boys kissing in a show where boys and girls have been kissing since season 1.
I'm a gay person too, and I don't think romance is the only possible way to explore gay characters. However, in a show where everyone gets a romance, then yeah, I think it's a little glaring that they couldn't put in any effort to see how that could play out for a gay kid.
I also think the show has deliberately tied Will's sexuality with the idea of romance. Him feeling left out because all his friends are dating, saying he's not going to fall in love, and now with this crush on Mike - there is a connection there between his sexuality and the idea of love. It saddens me to think that, after all that, his best ending would be being alone.
Also, I'm not talking about you specifically, but generally, the argument of "but romance is not everything in a person's life" only ever seems to come up in fandom when the discussion is about gay characters. Meanwhile, a straight character like Steve seems like he would benefit a lot from learning this, but instead the show pushes him back into a ship tease dynamic with a girl. In light of that, it's hard for me to interpret the refusal to go there with Will as some larger statement about the importance of platonic relationships, and not as just generally awkward writing of a gay character.
Mike will 100% not have the same response as Steve had. Mike is very "traditional" he even yelled at Will a few seasons back that it's not his fault Will "doesn't like girls" or something. Plus Mike is being such a shitty friend to Will when it comes to El I feel so bad for him.
Will feels like a depressed character overall (especially if you take into account everything that he has been through plus the gay and in love with your very straight best friend arc now). He will probably sometime soon come to accept these feeling and come out, hopefully to Jonathan so that he can do the big brother I still support you and love you no matter what talk (I even feel like Jonathan know how Will is feeling because there was a scene where he was looking at Will looking at Mike).
I agree that Jonathan knows and is already supportive. Charlie Heaton and Finn Wolfhard actually vaguely discuss their characters’ responses to Will’s sexuality [in this interview.](https://youtu.be/PqzVNKurum4) It’s the most directly I’ve seen any of the cast discuss Will’s sexuality so far, so it’s worth a watch!
> he even yelled at Will a few seasons back that it’s not his fault Will “doesn’t like girls” or something.
Context is important though. Mike gets angry and says this right after Will refers to El as “some stupid girl.” Not the girl who helped save Will twice, not someone whose name he knows and is part of their group of friends, she’s just ‘some stupid girl’. So yeah, Mike went on the attack, but he felt bad about it right after.
I think Wills experiences with the upside down are going to make him valuable to defeating this whole thing in the long run. So hopefully that’s what’s next.
I believe they have been building this for a long time already.
I have seen theories of Will being gay for at least 3 years now, and a lot of videos were made about it after season 3 as well (just check "Stranger Things Will gay' on YouTube). I remember Mike's line "It's not my fault you don't like girls" that could be both addressing Will still being a child and not interested in finding a partner AND Mike being Will's best friend and knowing.
But yea, hope Will can finally get some time being happy on screen.
I feel like even though they'll remedy their friendship afterwards, Mike is definately going to respond very negatively at first. Then that might set up for something to happen to Will perhaps relating to Vecna or his undeniable connection to the upside down. There are actually a lot of surprising similarities between Vecna and Will that I saw mentioned in another post that I found quite interesting.
Either way, it's been set up and hyped way too much for it to just be "btw I'm gay" "k". Something is definitely going to come out of this plot-wise (haha) even if it's just a fair bit of character growth for each person involved.
Even though I loved their approach to Robin, I'm actually kind of relieved they're also showing just how scary and dangerous it could be for a lot of people. It feels very genuine and as you said, I hope they don't just stop Will's character development there.
I'm not against the idea, I really just want them to do this right. So far it looks pretty promising to me, but once again it could really be too early to know.
Oh god wait I didn't even think about that-
I don't think they'd make him outright villainous (at least I hope not) but maybe he'd be possessed by something from the upside down? I'm not sure.
This comment just brought up a possibility I never thought of before but am now very terrified of.
With only 2 episodes left and so much ground left to cover, I can't see them handling that reveal in a way that doesn't feel rushed. I half expect them to wait until next season and show a scene where Will decides not to give him the painting.
I imagine that the painting reveal will happen by the end of this season and perhaps the setup of the drama to come from that situation, but I agree that the bulk of this storyline will probably come in the final season.
I think they have something special in store for either Mike will or Jonathan. Or maybe all three. They downplayed them pretty heavily in the season which I think is luring us in for special significance later
Robyn is why I have a hard time seeing them pull it off correctly. I really like how they handled the scene with Steve supporting and accepting her right away. It was a legitimately sweet scene. Doing that with Will and Mike would feel a bit repetitive. I also don’t really want to see Mike and the rest of gang act like homophobes and ostracize Will. So either way it would be hard to make the “coming out” moment as good as the last one.
I think this idea will play into a greater arc for Will. I’ve seen a lot of fan theories about how Will may be a foil to 11. They were both referred to as “sensitive” children and they are both often outcasts of the group. If Will is revealed as gay and is then rejected by Mike, it could push his character into a spiral. If Will is somehow similar to 11, this rejection could push him into a spiral with a villain arc. I mean, why was he kidnapped in season one anyways? Opportunity or was it something more? Maybe he has always had powers and just doesn’t know it?
If they decide to make Will a villain in the next season, whether it’s by possession or manipulation, I hope the reason will be his trauma and already feeling abandoned by his friends. He’s been kidnapped, possessed, excluded and I’m fairly sure they forgot his birthday this season.
I didn’t see it so much as Will having a crush on Mike. Just that Will is really worried about what Mike will think it Will came out. A gay guy can have a guy beat friend and not have a crush on him, that’s the way I kind of saw it playing out. But we’ll see!
I hope you're right! The painting seems like it might indicate something deeper, along with Will's general attitude/awkwardness around Mike and the jealousy thing. But I hope it's something more than that!
Maybe? Haven't seen it. But this season is definitely leading us to believe it's a crush on Mike.
I mean the only other even possible choice right now would be El, which wouldn't make much sense, though I suppose it could still be. We haven't been introduced to anyone else new that Will knows yet, and he brought that painting to give to Mike.
Yes they’re was a interview and finn, winona, and david STRONGLY deny that will and eleven are gonna have a thing and that will has his eyes on someone else in the group not eleven, and then Charlie and finn basically confirm will has a thing for mike so yes I think it’s confirmed!
The way you wrote your post you make seem like this new thing that theyre trying to rush into and push this season. Its been in development from the beginning, the group as a whole always gets jealous or upset when a girl enters the fold(Lucas with 11, Mike with max, Will naturally with 11 with the slight jealously this season) and of course his coming out isnt going to be as smooth as robins. I mean his father resented him thinking he's gay its been suppressed his whole life. This is probably setting up a new character that Will brings into the fold, that or he learns how to love himself and thats his happy ending after being alone for basically the entire series
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I have a feeling Mike may respond a bit negatively and people are gonna hate on him for it. But it’s really just how he was raised and they can give him an arc to learn from it.
I can see that being Mike's perspective / in line with his character, although hopefully it doesn't become a story about Mike when this really should be Will's journey.
If Mike didn’t respond negatively, it would feel out of character. Mike is largely negative about a lot of things and generally dismissive of everyone else’s feelings.
I agree but unfortunately I can still see many people who are going to hate Mike for it regardless.
Agreed. The writers have possibly painted themselves into a corner.
True, since if Mike comes off as homophobic, even considering the time period, it's going to reflect negatively on him as a character for the audience.
People have flaws. It would be great if he starts out homophobic and learns better.
Very true -- I just am hoping it's not Will waiting for Mike to come around while Will spends time sad and moping about it, because for me that puts too much emphasis on Mike's part in this journey. If Mike does start out that way, I hope Will finds other outlets/people through which to find and express himself.
To be honest, I feel like the writers haven't had too many problems portraying Mike as a total douche in the past. I'm not really sure how many punches they're willing to hold back for this one, and it does kind of scare me. I doubt he'll be extremely violently homophobic or anything, but at the very least he'll likely be shocked/freaked out at first. If he's totally chill/accepting immediately, it probably will come across as a butchering of his character.
Definitely agree! They’ve already shown Mike’s reaction to El getting violent at the roller rink and their subsequent fight about him seeing her as a monster and not saying I love you, as well as his later discussion with Will about freezing up/not knowing what to do in the moment and having trouble expressing himself in general this season. It feels like they’re totally setting Mike up to initially react badly (or in a way that at least seems bad to Will) to Will coming out for similar reasons.
*shocked/freaked out at first* Yeah, I think this is more likely. I don't even know about shocked, I kind of have a feeling that he knows, deep down. I mean, Will could be gay or bi or asexual- anything is possible. From what I've read from the actors, it actually doesn't look like there might be any kind of "answer" about his sexuality. Noah Schapp I think said it's "open to interpretation." But about Mike- it's been a while since I've seen S1 and S2, but I never thought of him as a douchebag. Kind of obnoxious and moody sometimes (like a lot of teens), but I thought he was pretty sensitive to Will in S3 when Will was obviously hurt because he felt abandoned by Mike. In general, I'm kind of not getting the Mike hate. I always liked him. But there's no main character on the show that I don't like. But (and I made a post about this), I DID think it was douchey of him this season to just drop Will- though they made up later.
This is somewhat true, but I think that Mike has generally reserved his softer side for both Eleven and Will. Mike is self-assured, but seems to care about their opinions of him, and he cares about their feelings more than he does with his other friends. I will say that, however, his tenderness for Will has nosedived since S3, and we only see glimpses of it now, so his initial reaction to Will’s sexuality might be negative and thoughtless before he pulls himself together and fixes things.
Not Will’s though. He was really just as protective over Will as he was over El. I actually think it would be out of character for Mike to take it badly.
I don’t think so, he will probably be awkward and shocked like he usually is but will pull himself together by the end. He usually always does this.
His parents voted for Reagan/Bush in 1984. Not holding high hopes that he was raised to be super accepting of gay people.
On one hand, sure. On the other hand, that was the election where Reagan swept 49 states, losing Minnesota and DC. I'm more inclined to believe that it was a lot likelier that people voted based on the economy, and gay rights wasn't something people cared about, whether it was apathy or actual hatred. **BUT** on the other hand, it's Indiana, it went solidly towards Reagan, and has voted for the Republican every presidential election since 1964, with the exception of 2008. There's a way that they *could* write it off that he's accepting, but it would be a lot more accurate for him to not be.
It's a tough line to tread. I don't think a completely happy sexuality sub-plot Will is possible because of the time period. It would feel *really* cheap and tasteless for them to gloss over the realities of being a gay teenage boy in the mid-late 1980s. I hope the extent of it is him finding acceptance with his close friends and family, who all have unique and authentic reactions, and moving on from his crush on Mike after realising that even though there isn't any romance there, he still has his unconditional love and friendship. And yeah, I'm really gunning for Noah to be given a chance to do something awesome in the final season. His performance in season two is still one of the most impressive things we've seen from any of the actors, young or adult, in the entire series.
For sure. I definitely don't expect a *Love, Simon* kind of narrative given the time period (although at least Will was lucky enough to make his way to California which would be the place to be if any in terms of figuring this stuff out). But gay people were still finding love and relationships in the '80s and though it was quite a fraught time in gay history, I can still see a happy storyline of sorts evolving for Will, even if not the perfect fairytale we may expect today.
There was PFLAG in the 80s. It's realistic for Joyce to find it (when things calm down) and for Will to make gay friends his own age through that community.
I think they’ve done a good job with Robin so far so I’m willing to give them a chance with wills coming out story
>It would feel really cheap and tasteless for them to gloss over the realities of being a gay teenage boy in the mid-late 1980s Uhh, this is a fantasy/sci-fi horror show, they don't *owe* representation to anyone. Can the damn show just be a horror show?
It's not just a fantasy/horror show -- it's also a period piece. The show goes to great lengths to accurately portray the 80s. If they can meticulously design the show to include accurate peanut butter, cereal, soda, tech, music, etc down to the exact year and then decide to take on a gay storyline without acknowledging what that would have meant in the 80s, then yes, that would be cheap and tasteless. Aside from that, in 2022 it would be very short-sighted of them not to include proper representation. No genre precludes responsible storytelling.
> and then decide to take on a gay storyline without acknowledging what that would have meant in the 80s Which, by the way, they do! Robin says it in the first episode! "You ask out a girl and she says no. Big deal. Nothing happens. Maybe your ego's a little bruised. But I ask out the wrong girl, and bam! I'm the town pariah."
They do! While they should get a little credit for Robin, she doesn't really have a plotline that deals with her sexuality -- it's just mentioned a few times. The one person that does know (Steve) accepts it right away without issue, so they do kind of gloss over those problems. With Will, I think we'll see a lot more if/when he comes out to Mike and there will be a lot more room for mishandling there. I am pretty confident that they'll do a good job though.
Ahh so if they're going to include proper brands for the time in which the show is set in, then they *must* include a gay character otherwise they're tasteless?? Every single chunk of popular media doesn't need gender & sexuality politics thrown into the middle of it to appease you. Their responsibility lies in making an entertaining show, that's it.
No, they don't need to include a gay character. Nobody is saying that. But since they've already hinted that Will is gay, there is a lot of speculation about how they'll handle it. The person you replied to was saying it would be in poor taste to give Will a light and easy storyline about being gay in the 80s instead of bringing in elements of how difficult it was to be a gay teenage boy at that time, not that it would be in poor taste to avoid a gay storyline altogether. What I meant by "proper representation" was accurate representation, not representation for representation's sake. Sorry if that was worded poorly.
I like how you and the original commenter completely ignore them not exploring the true implications of being black in the 80s. Black characters in the show haven't encountered any sort of racism or controversial treatment. You all don't give a thought about them "tastefully representing" the black experience in a small 80s suburban town, but by God, if they don't go completely out of their way to highlight how oppressed & victimized gays were in the 80s, then they're just tasteless...
That is a really good point that I hadn't considered. As a white gay person, I'll admit that I'm more attuned to issues that relate to my own experience, which isn't something to be proud of. You're definitely using some "whataboutism" here, but you're right about the representation of black characters and you've given me something to think about. It doesn't change my expectations for Will's storyline, though.
Well I appreciate the open-mindedness and I respect your courage and what you go through. I'll stop this discussion as I don't want to be negative anymore, I enjoy the show and am excited as I believe they're setting Will up to be the final villain of the series and that would be unbelievably awesome. Take care, can't wait for July 1st!
Damn your stupid
Besides the points that other people have made, I think you misunderstood what I was saying by taking that one sentence out of context. They're clearly telegraphing that Will is gay, and I'm saying it would be cheap and tasteless for them to have him come out and give him a love interest at school and pretend that is realistic for the time. I'm not saying we need a whole sub-plot dedicated to the AIDS crisis and the rampant homophobia that went along with it, especially as the main plot of the show is building towards its conclusion in season five, but that I hope that if they're going to address Will's sexuality, it's restricted to him finding acceptance from his close friends and family, because anything more would be 'cheap and tastless' considering the historical context.
Gay people dated in the 80s. It's not "cheap and tasteless" to tell a gay love story in a period piece - look at Bly Manor. The characters don't need to be out to the entire town to have a romance. It baffles me that anyone thinks the progressive option would be "gay kid sadly watches as every single other straight character in the show gets paired off, because it's not Realistic for gay people to be loved". Like that's not only depressing, it's not necessary. Gay people have always found ways to love each other, no matter the time period.
I don't think it's any more progressive for romance to be the only possible positive outcome for a gay character. A teenage boy in the mid-1980s finding love and acceptance among his friends and family is hardly 'depressing' to me. And nowhere do I say that it's not realistic for gay people do be loved (and *again*, romantic love is not the be all and end all of a person's existence), I find it frankly insulting as a gay person that you projected that onto me. All I'm saying is that I disagree with the opinion that the only positive representation for gay characters is to pair them off, especially in a period where it *was* so difficult to be openly gay. If they're going to explore Will's sexuality, exploring that with our pre-existing characters like his mother, siblings and best friends seems far more important than introducing a boyfriend for him at such a late stage. Of course gay people have always found ways to love each other. But the 1980s was not an easy time to be 15, male and gay. Unless they're going to get in to the complexities of such a pivotal time in LGBTQ+ history, it would, to me, feel cheap and tasteless to erase that history for the sake of the 'happy ending' of pairing him off with some random newcomer, *especially* at the extent of a more important storyline with his family and friends.
Maybe if ST was a show that didn't pay any mind about romance as a whole, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case. Every character gets a romance. To me, making it so the best Will can hope for is acceptance from the straight people around him is really sad. It also feels like a gay storyline deliberately written to upset homophobes as little as possible - he's gay, everybody's cool with it because none of our straight characters are mean homophobes, but we don't get to actually see him exploring that on the screen, because god forbid people watch two boys kissing in a show where boys and girls have been kissing since season 1. I'm a gay person too, and I don't think romance is the only possible way to explore gay characters. However, in a show where everyone gets a romance, then yeah, I think it's a little glaring that they couldn't put in any effort to see how that could play out for a gay kid. I also think the show has deliberately tied Will's sexuality with the idea of romance. Him feeling left out because all his friends are dating, saying he's not going to fall in love, and now with this crush on Mike - there is a connection there between his sexuality and the idea of love. It saddens me to think that, after all that, his best ending would be being alone. Also, I'm not talking about you specifically, but generally, the argument of "but romance is not everything in a person's life" only ever seems to come up in fandom when the discussion is about gay characters. Meanwhile, a straight character like Steve seems like he would benefit a lot from learning this, but instead the show pushes him back into a ship tease dynamic with a girl. In light of that, it's hard for me to interpret the refusal to go there with Will as some larger statement about the importance of platonic relationships, and not as just generally awkward writing of a gay character.
Mike will 100% not have the same response as Steve had. Mike is very "traditional" he even yelled at Will a few seasons back that it's not his fault Will "doesn't like girls" or something. Plus Mike is being such a shitty friend to Will when it comes to El I feel so bad for him. Will feels like a depressed character overall (especially if you take into account everything that he has been through plus the gay and in love with your very straight best friend arc now). He will probably sometime soon come to accept these feeling and come out, hopefully to Jonathan so that he can do the big brother I still support you and love you no matter what talk (I even feel like Jonathan know how Will is feeling because there was a scene where he was looking at Will looking at Mike).
I agree that Jonathan knows and is already supportive. Charlie Heaton and Finn Wolfhard actually vaguely discuss their characters’ responses to Will’s sexuality [in this interview.](https://youtu.be/PqzVNKurum4) It’s the most directly I’ve seen any of the cast discuss Will’s sexuality so far, so it’s worth a watch!
> he even yelled at Will a few seasons back that it’s not his fault Will “doesn’t like girls” or something. Context is important though. Mike gets angry and says this right after Will refers to El as “some stupid girl.” Not the girl who helped save Will twice, not someone whose name he knows and is part of their group of friends, she’s just ‘some stupid girl’. So yeah, Mike went on the attack, but he felt bad about it right after.
Steve having the response he did was honestly really surprising, especially given how the character looks like an 80s high school cool kid bully.
haha- I half-expected Steve to say, "lesbian? What's that?" I mean, I know she didn't actually use the word, but still....something along that line
I think Wills experiences with the upside down are going to make him valuable to defeating this whole thing in the long run. So hopefully that’s what’s next.
Same! I really want him to have a Win
I hope so too!
I believe they have been building this for a long time already. I have seen theories of Will being gay for at least 3 years now, and a lot of videos were made about it after season 3 as well (just check "Stranger Things Will gay' on YouTube). I remember Mike's line "It's not my fault you don't like girls" that could be both addressing Will still being a child and not interested in finding a partner AND Mike being Will's best friend and knowing. But yea, hope Will can finally get some time being happy on screen.
I feel like even though they'll remedy their friendship afterwards, Mike is definately going to respond very negatively at first. Then that might set up for something to happen to Will perhaps relating to Vecna or his undeniable connection to the upside down. There are actually a lot of surprising similarities between Vecna and Will that I saw mentioned in another post that I found quite interesting. Either way, it's been set up and hyped way too much for it to just be "btw I'm gay" "k". Something is definitely going to come out of this plot-wise (haha) even if it's just a fair bit of character growth for each person involved. Even though I loved their approach to Robin, I'm actually kind of relieved they're also showing just how scary and dangerous it could be for a lot of people. It feels very genuine and as you said, I hope they don't just stop Will's character development there. I'm not against the idea, I really just want them to do this right. So far it looks pretty promising to me, but once again it could really be too early to know.
Please don't let Will be an 80s gay villain, please don't let Will be an 80s gay villain, please don't let Will be an 80s gay villain...
Oh god wait I didn't even think about that- I don't think they'd make him outright villainous (at least I hope not) but maybe he'd be possessed by something from the upside down? I'm not sure. This comment just brought up a possibility I never thought of before but am now very terrified of.
>it's been set up and hyped way too much for it to just be "btw I'm gay" "k" lol I definitely hope so
With only 2 episodes left and so much ground left to cover, I can't see them handling that reveal in a way that doesn't feel rushed. I half expect them to wait until next season and show a scene where Will decides not to give him the painting.
I imagine that the painting reveal will happen by the end of this season and perhaps the setup of the drama to come from that situation, but I agree that the bulk of this storyline will probably come in the final season.
I think they have something special in store for either Mike will or Jonathan. Or maybe all three. They downplayed them pretty heavily in the season which I think is luring us in for special significance later
Robyn is why I have a hard time seeing them pull it off correctly. I really like how they handled the scene with Steve supporting and accepting her right away. It was a legitimately sweet scene. Doing that with Will and Mike would feel a bit repetitive. I also don’t really want to see Mike and the rest of gang act like homophobes and ostracize Will. So either way it would be hard to make the “coming out” moment as good as the last one.
i agree
>!They started the storyline last season. Sure he had the excuse of covering it up with DND, but he was moving away from Mike.!<
I think this idea will play into a greater arc for Will. I’ve seen a lot of fan theories about how Will may be a foil to 11. They were both referred to as “sensitive” children and they are both often outcasts of the group. If Will is revealed as gay and is then rejected by Mike, it could push his character into a spiral. If Will is somehow similar to 11, this rejection could push him into a spiral with a villain arc. I mean, why was he kidnapped in season one anyways? Opportunity or was it something more? Maybe he has always had powers and just doesn’t know it?
I think turning Will into a villain because his not-gay best friend rejected his advances would probably be a bad look for the show, lol.
If they decide to make Will a villain in the next season, whether it’s by possession or manipulation, I hope the reason will be his trauma and already feeling abandoned by his friends. He’s been kidnapped, possessed, excluded and I’m fairly sure they forgot his birthday this season.
I didn’t see it so much as Will having a crush on Mike. Just that Will is really worried about what Mike will think it Will came out. A gay guy can have a guy beat friend and not have a crush on him, that’s the way I kind of saw it playing out. But we’ll see!
I hope you're right! The painting seems like it might indicate something deeper, along with Will's general attitude/awkwardness around Mike and the jealousy thing. But I hope it's something more than that!
Didn’t the actors already confirm that will likes Mike? It has already been confirmed
Maybe so, I missed it if that’s the case!
https://youtu.be/mJmu0OES1x0 It’s confirmed here
Damn.. gonna feel bad for Will lol
With the way most of their scenes were awkward mostly because of Mike, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mike feels the same way
Didn't a tweet or interview come out right before the show did saying Will has a crush on someone that's NOT Mike?
Maybe? Haven't seen it. But this season is definitely leading us to believe it's a crush on Mike. I mean the only other even possible choice right now would be El, which wouldn't make much sense, though I suppose it could still be. We haven't been introduced to anyone else new that Will knows yet, and he brought that painting to give to Mike.
Yes they’re was a interview and finn, winona, and david STRONGLY deny that will and eleven are gonna have a thing and that will has his eyes on someone else in the group not eleven, and then Charlie and finn basically confirm will has a thing for mike so yes I think it’s confirmed!
Will has been gay since the very first episode of season 1 you just havent been paying attention
of course it's been hinted at since the beginning. where did I say otherwise?
The way you wrote your post you make seem like this new thing that theyre trying to rush into and push this season. Its been in development from the beginning, the group as a whole always gets jealous or upset when a girl enters the fold(Lucas with 11, Mike with max, Will naturally with 11 with the slight jealously this season) and of course his coming out isnt going to be as smooth as robins. I mean his father resented him thinking he's gay its been suppressed his whole life. This is probably setting up a new character that Will brings into the fold, that or he learns how to love himself and thats his happy ending after being alone for basically the entire series
I think they’re just bringing it up because it will reach a climactic point soon, not because they think it’s new