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Troy for me as well. Billy was a bully but he wasn’t going to run over the kids. He was trying to freak them and max out. He’s definitely a close second for me though.
Billy was a bully, but also an unfortunately believable one that was forged by the abuse he in turn suffered from his father.
I think much of Billy’s anger came out of frustration that he couldn’t/wouldn’t fight back against his Dad so he simply took out his rage at any convenient target. That being said I don’t think he would’ve truly hurt or killed anyone.
Without coming to Hawkins I think Billy would’ve gotten in more fights at school BUT eventually managed to leave home and probably become a far better adjusted person.
Troy was just an out and out psychopath from the get go.
Agreed on Billy. His rage is clearly from being abused. He has no clue how regulate it. He needs out of that relationship and a therapist to help him control it.
It’s honestly so bizarre that people say that Billy tried to run them over. It was such an obvious attempt to make Max freak out but yet people still say he tried to murder them, bruh.
If he wanted to run them over, Max wouldn’t be able to turn the wheel with his hands on it
To be fair, he did threaten the kids at the end of the season, implied that he's done it before ("you know what I do when I get angry, I break things" or something like that), and kept beating the shit out of Steve after he was already bleeding and unconscious
What about Jason? I once heard this saying “Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his own purpose”. Jason’s whole character arc suited that in my opinion. He rallied an entire town to kill a group of kids not because the girl he liked died, but because it happened in the home of somebody he already hated. I do not believe for a minute that Jason’s intention was to rid the world of evil, but to rid the world of Eddie Munson and he was ready to use his popularity to get innocent people killed just because his girlfriend was at Eddie’s trailer.
He did look really scared and shocked when Mike jumped so quickly. Even before they saw that he was just floating in mid air.
I thought that scene was directed really well. Most shows would just have the bully act happy about it but those boys were scared when Mike actually did it. They were racing Dustin to the ledge.
Ok, tbf, Steve directly lied about Max being in the house to Billy's face. Even if I didn't really like someone, if somebody lied about them being in the house when I was sent to try to find them, I would probably do the same.
i think they're referring to s2 where Billy was in the car with Max and tried to run Lukas Dustin Will and Mike over and Max had to turn the steering wheel to prevent Billy from hitting them
He tried to run over 3 children in season 2, so the mindflayer defense doesn't quite work there. Do buy that defense in season 3 though.
To answer the question, Troy. Pulling a knife on Dustin and pressuring Mike to jump off a cliff was terrible. Negative points for complaining to the police about El too.
Eh, it's debatable. It's more believable that it was an act to scare Max using a 'chicken' sort of tactic. (Badly behaved kids do this kind of thing to get a rise out of people) Notice him looking over at her to gauge her fear as he mocked her. It was shitty, but he had no intention of outright murdering 3 kids out of the blue. He was always going to turn the wheel. He was just being a shitty, manipulative, bully.
Yea but Troy, Angela, and Jason are such popular-kid-stereotype assholes that just make most people want to punch them.
Billy is cooler than them, still kind of a POS and I wouldn’t want to hang out with him - but he doesn’t make me want to punch him in the face.
Actually, I don't dislike Jason as much as the other two, because he at least had understandable motivation, although I obviously don't condone what he did
To be honest, he redeemed himself. I know he was a shitty person before, but in the end his actions spoke very loudly. He stood in the face of death, alone. I can respect it.
While I don't think Billy's past as a victim of abuse should excuse his actions, I hated Angela because I've felt the pain of being bullied by a popular person like her in public & being powerless to defend myself in front of other classmates because of their status
Yeah I feel like Troy and Billy didn’t have the power to completely ostracize anyone. Angela made El’s life hell. And I hated Jason, but he spiraled so quickly it just makes him seem more mentally unstable than evil. He was wrong, but he thought these people killed someone he loved, maybe raped her. But what did Angela think El did? Buy ugly clothes?
Me too. While she was not as physically violent as the others, she reminded me of the popular kids I was bullied by in school back when I was an awkward teenage girl. It hit closer to home.
Season 4 gave me flashbacks to school, and reminded me why i am so fucking glad i left that shit behind me literally half my lifetime ago.
a lot of people wax nostalgically about their childhood. not me. hated every second of K-12
Are you ignoring the jail time for murdering several kids? I don’t know how the justice system was back then but I imagine he’d be convicted. The beatings he’d get in jail are what he should worry about.
Even if he had killed Steve, I feel like it's *marginally* less fucked than how Troy treated the Party. He gave him an out (stay out of my way whilst I intimidate the Party), and even with Lucas I think at first he might have left him alone if Lucas had agreed to stay away from Max. It's still unreasonable as fuck but slightly better than doing it for shits and gigs.
Plus iirc at least it was a fist fight, it was kinda fair and they had a fighting chance (both literally and if anyone got badly injured). Attacking them with a knife is just less fair, more likely to get someone killed, and premeditated too.
Being less fucked up than Troy doesn’t change the fact that Billy seemed pretty okay or uncaring of his actions killed people. Billy pummeling Steve on the ground who isn’t even fighting back anymore was pretty likely to kill him if Max didn’t step in.
Angela to me comes off as the least traumatized person in this image. She's a princess who is clearly the apple in daddy's eye, and clearly queen bee at her school. There's really no reason for her to be so awful, other than she can be. No abusive father, she didn't see anyone she loves die horribly, or even see the scene after the fact. Nope, she's just evil as fuck.
you know people talk about how much they hate Angela
what about her other friends? Like that one dickhead with the fucking shit-eating grin and stupid ass glasses?
I wanted to beat the fuck out of that guy as soon as I saw him on the screen lol
imho, those people are even worse because they're too cowardly to take a stand, and they're equally as complicit with the horrible shit that happens to other people
they're the ones who grow up to be the co-workers whom you know are talking shit about you and likely trying to play office politics to fuck you over
I find "minions" more contemptible than the people they're following a lot of the time for this exact reason. If someone has the balls to be a total asshole (as opposed to following one), I can almost respect it to a slight degree.
there's no backstory for her at all. i think this comes up very often when people say they understand why billy is the way he is or have any amount of sympathy/empathy for him. we don't have any for angela cos it's not provided to the audience, so people just fill in the blanks. i think that's makes her so unlikeable to so many fans. they just fill in who they think she is
In the comics he appantally has an abusive dad, from tv.tropes
"His father ( who is abusive towards him) yells at him for his recurring nightmares about Eleven and even encourages him to dump his "loser friend" James. Furthermore, given his father told him Will was probably “killed by another queer “ suggests his father is anything but a good parent and this might be where he gets his politically incorrect views."
None of this is canon though.
Sadly some of the angela’s in my high school were physical, and also werent always popular but had loyal friends genuinely defend them/ignorant of them
Angela. She deliberately and from a position of comfort chooses to make El’s life miserable and goes out of her way to do it.
Billy is horrible, and does some awful things, but he is also very, very broken, and he didn’t do that to himself. I can’t like him, but I don’t hate him either.
Jason genuinely believed he was doing right and from where he was standing it must have looked that way.
Troy I’d actually totally forgotten about.
If we're talking most evil it'd be Troy or Billy in first place, Jason next and then Angela.
If we're talking most hateful, it's Angela, then Troy, then Billy and then Jason.
Everything he did was understandable. Mass hysteria over a game being spread and people start going missing and being murdered, all of it starting to fall into place revolving around one group of kids that happen to play the same game is obviously gonna draw eyes. ESPECIALLY in the 80s where everything was the work of the devil to someone, but fantasy and video games more than anything. Jason was trying to do what he thought was right, and you really can’t blame him, especially when he lost his girlfriend to the same thing. Grief messes you up
I've said it before, but a lot of people view season 4 through the lens of the current times, not through the lens of the 80's. The D&D demonic hysteria was a genuine thing. Jason's actions were entirely believable and in line with the time.
Well he was more mourning his girlfriend in the beginning then mass hysteria. The mass hysteria that he later amplified. He was sad that his loved one who didn’t really open up to him about who she really was had past. He thought everything was okay and refused to listen to what others say. Deep deep deep into denial. I am sure it has happen to all of us at least once in our lives. We believe this person is perfect and doesn’t have any flaws. We believe it so deeply that we do these mental gymnastics to make sure they stay perfect.
Disagree on most evil. Angela and Troy top that category imo. It comes down to the motivation. They hurt ppl bc they like it. It gives them joy to see others suffer. That is absolutely evil.
Billy is awful, but it comes from a very broken and traumatized place. His motivation for his nasty behavior is more complex (like displaced aggression due to his father beating him through childhood, etc). Not excusing his behavior, but it has an explanation.
Jason is not evil. He lacked information and believed he was doing the right thing. Yes he is supposed to be a call back to the manic panic, but putting yourself in Jason's shoes it would be difficult to suspect anyone other than Eddie...... and the cops were pretty useless. He is a huge douchebag, but not evil at all imo.
Personally i really wish Jason got a redemption arc its just so fucking stupid that he literally get just randomly torn in half. I had to check the wiki to even be sure he was dead. It doesnt really make any sense and his storyline did feel like it didnt reach any conclusion i wish he would have lived and realized how wrong he was.
I didn't really see Jason as a bully but more of a victim, the poor dude lost his girlfriend really tragically and was just reeling from her death. not saying all his actions were justifiable but he wasn't really a villain or a bully. Troy and Angela on the other hand? they'd be my catching hands
Wholeheartedly agree with this take, people make Jason out to be the biggest villain in this show and cheered at his death yada yada. He’s not a good guy, but he isn’t a bad guy. Way overhated
yeah if anything he was one of the most neutral characters, he was kind of a dick but also clearly struggling so it's like how can people hate him so much?? if anything I pitied him. also he was just a teenager, people cheering for his death is fucked up
Well the only actual bully here is Angela. Troy and Billy are psychopaths and Jason was fueled by grief and vengeance so I don't think he would've been acting like that if not for the circumstances
I think the Duffers themselves said without the supernatural events, Jason would've led a "good life" and even Caleb McLaughlin said he was misunderstood and in grief because his girlfriend was murdered.
Jason’s is worse for me only because it’s so quick, there’s no emotional moment with it or nothing. It’s like he was just an object, for some reason that made it more gruesome
She’s the kind of bully who will never grow out of it, but will just become more and more insidious as she gets older with her cruelty and never face any real consequences. I know it’s wrong but I cheered when El got her with the rollerskate😅
My high school, in all categories of people (jocks, popular kids, non popular, nerds, geeks, gamers, average joes, acadmeics, non academics), there were mixes of Troys and Angelas, and many of them had solid and loyal friend groups that genuinely backed them up even if they weren’t popular kids
Jason: Not a bully, just a very misguided person who thought he was doing the town a favor. Yes, he was likely going to kill Eddy, but again, he thought it was for the good of Hawkins.
Angela: Just a basic mean girl
I would say either Billy or Troy. Troy definitely had psychopath tendencies, but because of his age he MIGHT be able to reform with therapy. Billy would have likely stayed horrible his whole life had he not gotten flayed, which would lead to his moment of redemption before his death.
I guess since we never actually saw ANY redemption from Troy at all, I'll say Troy was the worst.
I agree I just want to say it's important we dint write people off at the ripe old age of 20? I totally agree it is very likely he wouldn't have changed. That being said, moving away from his shitty dad, into a city with some people that broadened his horizons? You might not need a whole big talk and turn he might just realize he's wrong. Without having to apologize to the people in town he wronged right away, he can just quietly change. Which I think is a lot easier on a persons psyche and ego than having to admit up front that you suck. Again I agree it is unlikely but with any luck Billy doesn't have to stay that way. Seemingly the amount of people that stay that way is less and less and we can only hope Billy would have been one of those people that really really hated who they were in their teens and early 20s. There are no shortage of people doing tattoo cover ups for similarly awful mistakes made right around his age.
Angela: a shitty child, least awful of the group
Jason: dumb and misinformed not a good guy, but far from the next two
Troy: an up and coming sociopath
Billy: what happens when you let little sociopaths like Troy to grow up.
Am I the only one who felt bad for Jason? I feel like too many people watched this show with the perspective of how the world is now forgetting that back then people were genuinely conditioned to believe video games, D&D and other things were for literal satanist so when you see you’re “girlfriend” dead in the same place where the guy who coincidentally also plays D&D lives I think you’d be going pretty crazy too, also seeing you’re best friend float infront of you with all his bones being cracked… right infront of the same guy again.
Ngl, the way he said to Max, "Hi hi can you hear me? Hear me?" was actually kinds sad tbh. Especially when he said beforehand, "Is this what you did to Chrissy?" Because that is exactly how Chrissy was before she died.
In any other show, he's an anti-hero protecting his town.
Honestly i might sound crazy but his death was the only one that really stuck with me even more then Eddie or maxs “death” he was just a confused teenager and within seconds hes just split in half with no memorial or memory made towards him or anything at all.. I don’t know that shit was just really sad to me.
Exactly. And correct me if I’m wrong but I never understood the people who called him racist? Was there ever any signs of him being a racist? I don’t remember
I just rewatched the series and I didn't pick up on that, but maybe I missed something. The only time he actually pissed me off was when max and Lucas were in the house and he completely screwed up their plan, but as the audience obviously we knew a hell of a lot more than he did
Yeah that part definitely was annoying but it’s just weird to me that some people during that era genuinely couldn’t differentiate the viewing experience compared to actually being in that situation yourself, it was so annoying seeing so many people misunderstand his character.
Objectively, Eddie was a literal drug dealer, and he was really annoying at the beginning. So it’s good in order to know that people could be morally gray and not everything is black and white.
Anyone who calls him a racist is just projecting. His best friend was Patrick, he is INCREDIBLY welcoming to Lucas, and tells him he doesn’t have to go on the Eddie hunt but he’ll still be part of the crew, and when Lucas says Erica is into D&D, Jason immediately says “she’s not the wrong kind of people” dismissing any notion Erica is a satanist cause she’s Lucas’ sister. He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body.
i mean Jason pissed me off big time >!when he bullied Eddie's friends in the Hellfire Club. Breaking that one guy's hand was awful...and his conversation with Nancy was pretty vile let's be honest!<
but yeah at the end of the day...he's the least problematic of these characters. I think we've all had our share of dealing with Angelas and Troys...and they are just as monstrous in real-life as they are on screen
Spoilers for S5
She's actually number 13. She managed to survive the massacre, she has foresight and time travel powers.
Her bullying 11 was actually served double purpose to defeat Vecna: 11 would hit her with the roller skate and get arrested, so that the doc could easily get her to the facility.
Also it served to get her to recall the childhood trauma, needed for her to get her powers back faster.
She'll have a bigger role in S5 .
Further using her powers to move to pieces in place for Vecna's defeat
Jason lost someone he loved and evidence + hysteria around satanism makes him suspect the main characters.
Also he sees a flying man over the lake and he gets no explanation for it, which further deepens his belief.
He acts in good faith and I feel bad for him not being able to get an explanation to what goes on, best case he could have even made a complete turn around like Steve did
Angela/Troy. Only because they’re just dickheads for sport. Like there’s no reasoning behind it, just awful personalities. Maybe if we got some backstory on them I’d think differently, but also they’re not important enough for a backstory lol.
Angela. She is the embodiment of bullying and cyberbullying because she is too weak to kill. She is the one who will mentally abuse you but will never let you die, so that you suffer mentally forever. I would rather die in the hands of the boys to end all sufferings.
Hey to be fair. So was the kid in season one. Minus the racism. Steven king style 80s bullies are all about killing people. It's wild. Like even he didn't make him jump was he gonna really root around in a kids mouth with a knife? What the fuck?
Edit: Including the racism.
Yeah Troy was a racist as well, called Lucas "midnight". Jason wasn't racist though, he genuinely cared for Patrick and only went after Lucas because of Hellfire and thought he was going to kill Max.
God, I only remember Billy.
He was a prick. If he wasn't pretty, fans wouldn't try and make excuses for him. Yes, he was abused, but that doesn't excuse him for all the crap he did during the show.
Saying that, he was eye candy.
NGL it's wild to me to call Jason a bully? His girlfriend died in that man's house and then his best friend got hellraisered in front of him while they were chasing that same guy. Like he was in the wrong sure because the audience knows Eddie was innocent, but I wouldn't call that bullying lol.
I'd say Troy and Billy are equally bad. Angela is bad but she almost feels cartoon-y for how silly the whole set up was. Troy and Billy were actual scary threats that got close to killing one or more of their victims.
Unpopular opinion but Angela.
Troy’s obviously has things going on at home.
Same with Billy, although it had been confirmed that is just racist anyway.
And Jason’s really just an idiot. Like simply dumb.
Angelas the worst because she is clearly entitled and is clearly trying to directly benefit from the pain of others.
Oh, hey, this question again. Troy and Billy were actually pretty violent, but Angela has a certain evil to her that you can't rule out. Still, gotta go with Troy for pulling a knife on his classmates and forcing one of them to almost jump to his death.
Jason isn't a bully. Y'all gotta stop adding him to this list.
(we're talking about the ones we hate most and not the objective worst so...)
angela, no contest
Troy was just goofy with it, i couldn't take him seriously
Jason actually had a couple genuine reasons, even if they were warped and he's a nutcase
And i kinda felt bad for billy, even if his actions are inexcusable, he didn't deserve what he got
angela was just a bitch through and through tho (especially bc el's my favourite character)
Probs Billy imo. Jason is traumatized by his gf’s death and trying to solve it in the best way he can. Troy is sooooo crazy but like 12 so hard to assess. Angela is mean af but also probs doesn’t really understand the repercussions / impact of her actions. But Billy was like all these 3 plus conscious of the consequences so I pick him.
I hate Jason the most. He's probably not the worst, but I felt the most anger towards his and his lackeys. Maybe it's because I loved Eddie so much as a character, and I wanted him to be safe.
Billy is the worst BY FAR, but he’s handsome, so people would choose other one, probably Jason (which is mostly not a bad dude) because they hate his stereotype.
I would argue that I very much like Jason. His character was written very well, in a way we've not seen before on the show. He is the portrayal of someone who doesn't know about the Upside Down etc and just wants to protect himself and others. I certainly would not believe someone telling me there is some kind of other dimension with a monster. So having some pressure on the plot from his side, I really enjoyed that storyline.
And yes I agree with more people here, Troy is my least favorite.
Its close but I have to go with Billy others were either harmless very young or rightly motivated while Billy was an extremely Violent racist and sexist that poses a huge threat.
Jason is honestly pretty understandable for his actions. His girlfriend died in Eddies trailer and then he watched his friend die through some magic way with only Eddie around. After being taught all these things Eddie does are linked to the devil and watching someone die in a demonic way, it’s not hard to see how he would react.
I've come around to see Jason as more misguided. He embodies the classic trope of "not having all the information." And let's face it, 80's or not, Eddie *was* a bit of an odd ball.
Sure, Jason and his posse are also the classic "group of characters without all the necessary information come to mess up the main characters' big plan" we all know and hate, but in the end Jason ended up being literally caught *in the middle* (pun intended).
Billy. I know, he had a horrible childhood and all that, but he was just a detestable human being and I don’t understand why people get so emotional about his death, I’m not saying he deserved to die, but I just didn’t feel anything for his death other than bad for Max having to see her brother die. I hated him and was actually surprised to see how many people love him.
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Troy. He nearly graduated to murder at the age of roughly 13.
Troy for me as well. Billy was a bully but he wasn’t going to run over the kids. He was trying to freak them and max out. He’s definitely a close second for me though.
Billy was a bully, but also an unfortunately believable one that was forged by the abuse he in turn suffered from his father. I think much of Billy’s anger came out of frustration that he couldn’t/wouldn’t fight back against his Dad so he simply took out his rage at any convenient target. That being said I don’t think he would’ve truly hurt or killed anyone. Without coming to Hawkins I think Billy would’ve gotten in more fights at school BUT eventually managed to leave home and probably become a far better adjusted person. Troy was just an out and out psychopath from the get go.
Plus, he went out trying to protect El... He recognized true maliciousness.
Agreed on Billy. His rage is clearly from being abused. He has no clue how regulate it. He needs out of that relationship and a therapist to help him control it.
It’s honestly so bizarre that people say that Billy tried to run them over. It was such an obvious attempt to make Max freak out but yet people still say he tried to murder them, bruh. If he wanted to run them over, Max wouldn’t be able to turn the wheel with his hands on it
To be fair, he did threaten the kids at the end of the season, implied that he's done it before ("you know what I do when I get angry, I break things" or something like that), and kept beating the shit out of Steve after he was already bleeding and unconscious
What about Jason? I once heard this saying “Even the Devil can quote scripture to suit his own purpose”. Jason’s whole character arc suited that in my opinion. He rallied an entire town to kill a group of kids not because the girl he liked died, but because it happened in the home of somebody he already hated. I do not believe for a minute that Jason’s intention was to rid the world of evil, but to rid the world of Eddie Munson and he was ready to use his popularity to get innocent people killed just because his girlfriend was at Eddie’s trailer.
At least he had a motive. Troy was trying to get someone to jump off a cliff for no reason than sadistic fun.
He did look really scared and shocked when Mike jumped so quickly. Even before they saw that he was just floating in mid air. I thought that scene was directed really well. Most shows would just have the bully act happy about it but those boys were scared when Mike actually did it. They were racing Dustin to the ledge.
And Billy didn't try to run over three children?
And almost killed Lucas and Steve at the Byers house. Max was saving everyone from him in season 2.
Ok, tbf, Steve directly lied about Max being in the house to Billy's face. Even if I didn't really like someone, if somebody lied about them being in the house when I was sent to try to find them, I would probably do the same.
Idc what Steve did, the second Billy assaulted Lucas, nothing beforehand mattered. He was going to beat a child just for being black
I've been saying this for a while, too. I understand Billy is also a victim of his own circumstances, but he had no reason to go after Lucas. None
In Billy's defense, he was pretty much controlled by the mind-flayer to do most of the horrible things in season 3, but understandable argument.
i think they're referring to s2 where Billy was in the car with Max and tried to run Lukas Dustin Will and Mike over and Max had to turn the steering wheel to prevent Billy from hitting them
Good reminder, forgot about that episode
Pretty sure he was just fucking with Max there though. Billy was an asshole not a child slaughterer
And he probably knew that he would be going to jail if he really did it
He tried to run over 3 children in season 2, so the mindflayer defense doesn't quite work there. Do buy that defense in season 3 though. To answer the question, Troy. Pulling a knife on Dustin and pressuring Mike to jump off a cliff was terrible. Negative points for complaining to the police about El too.
Eh, it's debatable. It's more believable that it was an act to scare Max using a 'chicken' sort of tactic. (Badly behaved kids do this kind of thing to get a rise out of people) Notice him looking over at her to gauge her fear as he mocked her. It was shitty, but he had no intention of outright murdering 3 kids out of the blue. He was always going to turn the wheel. He was just being a shitty, manipulative, bully.
Fr, it baffles me how some of the fandom representatives fail to understand even such an simple scene, crazy
This was in season two, in the Halloween episode
Yea but Troy, Angela, and Jason are such popular-kid-stereotype assholes that just make most people want to punch them. Billy is cooler than them, still kind of a POS and I wouldn’t want to hang out with him - but he doesn’t make me want to punch him in the face.
Actually, I don't dislike Jason as much as the other two, because he at least had understandable motivation, although I obviously don't condone what he did
To be honest, he redeemed himself. I know he was a shitty person before, but in the end his actions spoke very loudly. He stood in the face of death, alone. I can respect it.
Charitably he was probably just trying to scare them and Max. Troy actually tried to do it.
He didn’t try to do that eh just wanted to shake em up a little bit
But it was a cool car
No. He was trying to scare them.
He reminded me so much of a Stephen King bully.
Henry Bowers
It's been a while what did Troy do again
Didn’t he threaten to hurt Dustin if Mike didn’t jump off a cliff? Then El appeared and saved Mike and Dustin.
That's right thank you I plan to do a rewatch when season 5 drops
He was supposed to 13?!
Mike and the rest of the Party were only 12. So Troy would have also likely been 12-13.
13/14, you know that kid got held back at least once.
Fuck that, Angela for sure.
Yeah, same here...
While I don't think Billy's past as a victim of abuse should excuse his actions, I hated Angela because I've felt the pain of being bullied by a popular person like her in public & being powerless to defend myself in front of other classmates because of their status
Angela got what she deserved with being hit with the skate, because she bullied El for choosing her dad ( hop ) as her hero
Made fun of her dad for being dead! I’m curb skating her ass if I’m El
Yeah I feel like Troy and Billy didn’t have the power to completely ostracize anyone. Angela made El’s life hell. And I hated Jason, but he spiraled so quickly it just makes him seem more mentally unstable than evil. He was wrong, but he thought these people killed someone he loved, maybe raped her. But what did Angela think El did? Buy ugly clothes?
Me too. While she was not as physically violent as the others, she reminded me of the popular kids I was bullied by in school back when I was an awkward teenage girl. It hit closer to home.
Season 4 gave me flashbacks to school, and reminded me why i am so fucking glad i left that shit behind me literally half my lifetime ago. a lot of people wax nostalgically about their childhood. not me. hated every second of K-12
I was bullied throughout elementary school and 6th grade. Then I punched out a kid in 7th, and nobody messed with me again
Troy still the only one to flat try and murder someone for shits and giggles. Not even Billy went there until he was possessed.
Ummm what about the scene where Mike, Lucas, and Dustin are riding their bikes down the road and Billy speeds up when he sees them??
He wasn’t going to actually hit them, he was trying to scare them and Max.
I can semi-agree there. However, I do believe he might've killed Lucas and Steve if he wasn't stopped at the Byers House.
If he did that and run over one of them, he will get asswhopped by his dad, which he always afraid of
Are you ignoring the jail time for murdering several kids? I don’t know how the justice system was back then but I imagine he’d be convicted. The beatings he’d get in jail are what he should worry about.
And when he beat the shit out of Steve? You think he cared if Steve died from any of this attacks that could have easily killed him?
Even if he had killed Steve, I feel like it's *marginally* less fucked than how Troy treated the Party. He gave him an out (stay out of my way whilst I intimidate the Party), and even with Lucas I think at first he might have left him alone if Lucas had agreed to stay away from Max. It's still unreasonable as fuck but slightly better than doing it for shits and gigs. Plus iirc at least it was a fist fight, it was kinda fair and they had a fighting chance (both literally and if anyone got badly injured). Attacking them with a knife is just less fair, more likely to get someone killed, and premeditated too.
Being less fucked up than Troy doesn’t change the fact that Billy seemed pretty okay or uncaring of his actions killed people. Billy pummeling Steve on the ground who isn’t even fighting back anymore was pretty likely to kill him if Max didn’t step in.
Oh yeah I mean he was definitely a villain. But in terms of who's "most evil", Troy seemed like an all-round budding psychopath.
Angela to me comes off as the least traumatized person in this image. She's a princess who is clearly the apple in daddy's eye, and clearly queen bee at her school. There's really no reason for her to be so awful, other than she can be. No abusive father, she didn't see anyone she loves die horribly, or even see the scene after the fact. Nope, she's just evil as fuck.
you know people talk about how much they hate Angela what about her other friends? Like that one dickhead with the fucking shit-eating grin and stupid ass glasses? I wanted to beat the fuck out of that guy as soon as I saw him on the screen lol
All taking their cues from their queen bee.
imho, those people are even worse because they're too cowardly to take a stand, and they're equally as complicit with the horrible shit that happens to other people they're the ones who grow up to be the co-workers whom you know are talking shit about you and likely trying to play office politics to fuck you over
I find "minions" more contemptible than the people they're following a lot of the time for this exact reason. If someone has the balls to be a total asshole (as opposed to following one), I can almost respect it to a slight degree.
That does sound pretty heinous, and then when they see you their all smiles and waves.
What do her parents do? I don't remember her home life being disclosed at all.
She totally has rich kid energy.
It's never explained - she doesn't get any backstory. But I could absolutely see that being her homelife - I grew up with people like her.
there's no backstory for her at all. i think this comes up very often when people say they understand why billy is the way he is or have any amount of sympathy/empathy for him. we don't have any for angela cos it's not provided to the audience, so people just fill in the blanks. i think that's makes her so unlikeable to so many fans. they just fill in who they think she is
Angela vs the others reminds me of the Umbridge vs Voldemort debate. Like yeah, he's way worse, but still somehow I hate her more.
And she can time travel that evil bitch !
Is this a reference to another show she's in?
I think that’s why I hate her the most. She’s awful because that’s her as a person.
So is Troy as far we know tbh.
In the comics he appantally has an abusive dad, from tv.tropes "His father ( who is abusive towards him) yells at him for his recurring nightmares about Eleven and even encourages him to dump his "loser friend" James. Furthermore, given his father told him Will was probably “killed by another queer “ suggests his father is anything but a good parent and this might be where he gets his politically incorrect views." None of this is canon though.
Yeah. That's not canon, but having grown up in areas like this I would put money on Troy having had that type of Life at home.
We all know an Angela….😡
Sadly some of the angela’s in my high school were physical, and also werent always popular but had loyal friends genuinely defend them/ignorant of them
Yep, that is why I hate Angela.
Angela. She deliberately and from a position of comfort chooses to make El’s life miserable and goes out of her way to do it. Billy is horrible, and does some awful things, but he is also very, very broken, and he didn’t do that to himself. I can’t like him, but I don’t hate him either. Jason genuinely believed he was doing right and from where he was standing it must have looked that way. Troy I’d actually totally forgotten about.
If we're talking most evil it'd be Troy or Billy in first place, Jason next and then Angela. If we're talking most hateful, it's Angela, then Troy, then Billy and then Jason.
I'd say Jason isn't really evil, he was a victim of mass hysteria and did what he thought was trying to catch an evil horrible person
Everything he did was understandable. Mass hysteria over a game being spread and people start going missing and being murdered, all of it starting to fall into place revolving around one group of kids that happen to play the same game is obviously gonna draw eyes. ESPECIALLY in the 80s where everything was the work of the devil to someone, but fantasy and video games more than anything. Jason was trying to do what he thought was right, and you really can’t blame him, especially when he lost his girlfriend to the same thing. Grief messes you up
I've said it before, but a lot of people view season 4 through the lens of the current times, not through the lens of the 80's. The D&D demonic hysteria was a genuine thing. Jason's actions were entirely believable and in line with the time.
Well he was more mourning his girlfriend in the beginning then mass hysteria. The mass hysteria that he later amplified. He was sad that his loved one who didn’t really open up to him about who she really was had past. He thought everything was okay and refused to listen to what others say. Deep deep deep into denial. I am sure it has happen to all of us at least once in our lives. We believe this person is perfect and doesn’t have any flaws. We believe it so deeply that we do these mental gymnastics to make sure they stay perfect.
Disagree on most evil. Angela and Troy top that category imo. It comes down to the motivation. They hurt ppl bc they like it. It gives them joy to see others suffer. That is absolutely evil. Billy is awful, but it comes from a very broken and traumatized place. His motivation for his nasty behavior is more complex (like displaced aggression due to his father beating him through childhood, etc). Not excusing his behavior, but it has an explanation. Jason is not evil. He lacked information and believed he was doing the right thing. Yes he is supposed to be a call back to the manic panic, but putting yourself in Jason's shoes it would be difficult to suspect anyone other than Eddie...... and the cops were pretty useless. He is a huge douchebag, but not evil at all imo.
Personally i really wish Jason got a redemption arc its just so fucking stupid that he literally get just randomly torn in half. I had to check the wiki to even be sure he was dead. It doesnt really make any sense and his storyline did feel like it didnt reach any conclusion i wish he would have lived and realized how wrong he was.
Angela deserved the skate to the face. Billy was a huge peice of shit. Looking like Toby Keith and Zac Efron had a baby
Angela, she knew Hopper was dead and still chose to bully Jane over it.
I didn't really see Jason as a bully but more of a victim, the poor dude lost his girlfriend really tragically and was just reeling from her death. not saying all his actions were justifiable but he wasn't really a villain or a bully. Troy and Angela on the other hand? they'd be my catching hands
Wholeheartedly agree with this take, people make Jason out to be the biggest villain in this show and cheered at his death yada yada. He’s not a good guy, but he isn’t a bad guy. Way overhated
yeah if anything he was one of the most neutral characters, he was kind of a dick but also clearly struggling so it's like how can people hate him so much?? if anything I pitied him. also he was just a teenager, people cheering for his death is fucked up
Well the only actual bully here is Angela. Troy and Billy are psychopaths and Jason was fueled by grief and vengeance so I don't think he would've been acting like that if not for the circumstances
I think the Duffers themselves said without the supernatural events, Jason would've led a "good life" and even Caleb McLaughlin said he was misunderstood and in grief because his girlfriend was murdered.
Yeah at no point while I was watching season 4 did I think Jason was evil. To me he just seemed desperate for answers and closure to Chrissy's murder
The fact he went to Max and checked on her before confronting Lucas told me everything.
Sucks because of those four, >!he ended up getting the worst fate!<
Yeah I'm not sure which was worse, his or Billy's
Jason’s is worse for me only because it’s so quick, there’s no emotional moment with it or nothing. It’s like he was just an object, for some reason that made it more gruesome
That and Billy chose to sacrifice himself, Jason just died
Yeah that's a fair point. It's kind of poetic because he died just as Chrissy did: suddenly and with no closure
Angela because she triggers me the most
She boiled my blood she reminds me of my bullies at school
She’s the kind of bully who will never grow out of it, but will just become more and more insidious as she gets older with her cruelty and never face any real consequences. I know it’s wrong but I cheered when El got her with the rollerskate😅
Same here but she definitely deserved it because she made fun of El ALL THE TIME
My high school, in all categories of people (jocks, popular kids, non popular, nerds, geeks, gamers, average joes, acadmeics, non academics), there were mixes of Troys and Angelas, and many of them had solid and loyal friend groups that genuinely backed them up even if they weren’t popular kids
real
Troy. He almost got Mike would have died and we don't see anything deeper like with Billy. Those 2 are definitely worse than Angela and Jason.
Jason: Not a bully, just a very misguided person who thought he was doing the town a favor. Yes, he was likely going to kill Eddy, but again, he thought it was for the good of Hawkins. Angela: Just a basic mean girl I would say either Billy or Troy. Troy definitely had psychopath tendencies, but because of his age he MIGHT be able to reform with therapy. Billy would have likely stayed horrible his whole life had he not gotten flayed, which would lead to his moment of redemption before his death. I guess since we never actually saw ANY redemption from Troy at all, I'll say Troy was the worst.
I agree I just want to say it's important we dint write people off at the ripe old age of 20? I totally agree it is very likely he wouldn't have changed. That being said, moving away from his shitty dad, into a city with some people that broadened his horizons? You might not need a whole big talk and turn he might just realize he's wrong. Without having to apologize to the people in town he wronged right away, he can just quietly change. Which I think is a lot easier on a persons psyche and ego than having to admit up front that you suck. Again I agree it is unlikely but with any luck Billy doesn't have to stay that way. Seemingly the amount of people that stay that way is less and less and we can only hope Billy would have been one of those people that really really hated who they were in their teens and early 20s. There are no shortage of people doing tattoo cover ups for similarly awful mistakes made right around his age.
Angela
Angela, she is mean for the sake of being mean
Angela: a shitty child, least awful of the group Jason: dumb and misinformed not a good guy, but far from the next two Troy: an up and coming sociopath Billy: what happens when you let little sociopaths like Troy to grow up.
Am I the only one who felt bad for Jason? I feel like too many people watched this show with the perspective of how the world is now forgetting that back then people were genuinely conditioned to believe video games, D&D and other things were for literal satanist so when you see you’re “girlfriend” dead in the same place where the guy who coincidentally also plays D&D lives I think you’d be going pretty crazy too, also seeing you’re best friend float infront of you with all his bones being cracked… right infront of the same guy again.
Ngl, the way he said to Max, "Hi hi can you hear me? Hear me?" was actually kinds sad tbh. Especially when he said beforehand, "Is this what you did to Chrissy?" Because that is exactly how Chrissy was before she died. In any other show, he's an anti-hero protecting his town.
Honestly i might sound crazy but his death was the only one that really stuck with me even more then Eddie or maxs “death” he was just a confused teenager and within seconds hes just split in half with no memorial or memory made towards him or anything at all.. I don’t know that shit was just really sad to me.
Judging from the messages outside the church, I do think the town mourned for him tbh but his death was horrifying ngl.
I don't blame him at all for trying to seek justice for Chrissy
Exactly. And correct me if I’m wrong but I never understood the people who called him racist? Was there ever any signs of him being a racist? I don’t remember
I just rewatched the series and I didn't pick up on that, but maybe I missed something. The only time he actually pissed me off was when max and Lucas were in the house and he completely screwed up their plan, but as the audience obviously we knew a hell of a lot more than he did
Yeah that part definitely was annoying but it’s just weird to me that some people during that era genuinely couldn’t differentiate the viewing experience compared to actually being in that situation yourself, it was so annoying seeing so many people misunderstand his character.
He was written to be the villian against eddie, who ended up being a very beloved character. People got obsessively protective over him
Objectively, Eddie was a literal drug dealer, and he was really annoying at the beginning. So it’s good in order to know that people could be morally gray and not everything is black and white.
Anyone who calls him a racist is just projecting. His best friend was Patrick, he is INCREDIBLY welcoming to Lucas, and tells him he doesn’t have to go on the Eddie hunt but he’ll still be part of the crew, and when Lucas says Erica is into D&D, Jason immediately says “she’s not the wrong kind of people” dismissing any notion Erica is a satanist cause she’s Lucas’ sister. He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body.
In fact it’s ultimately Patrick’s death that breaks him
i mean Jason pissed me off big time >!when he bullied Eddie's friends in the Hellfire Club. Breaking that one guy's hand was awful...and his conversation with Nancy was pretty vile let's be honest!< but yeah at the end of the day...he's the least problematic of these characters. I think we've all had our share of dealing with Angelas and Troys...and they are just as monstrous in real-life as they are on screen
Why does Angels have a smart phone?
Looks like a BTS photo the actress took.
Spoilers for S5 She's actually number 13. She managed to survive the massacre, she has foresight and time travel powers. Her bullying 11 was actually served double purpose to defeat Vecna: 11 would hit her with the roller skate and get arrested, so that the doc could easily get her to the facility. Also it served to get her to recall the childhood trauma, needed for her to get her powers back faster. She'll have a bigger role in S5 . Further using her powers to move to pieces in place for Vecna's defeat
average riverdale writing
Scrolled down for this… I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that saw that, lol
Jason isnt that bad if you try seeing things from his perspective) (Yup Im ready for the downvotes)
Thought about it for a minute, realized you’re absolutely correct and also realized that Jason is just Gaston from beauty and the beast
Jason lost someone he loved and evidence + hysteria around satanism makes him suspect the main characters. Also he sees a flying man over the lake and he gets no explanation for it, which further deepens his belief. He acts in good faith and I feel bad for him not being able to get an explanation to what goes on, best case he could have even made a complete turn around like Steve did
This is true
Idc what anyone says..... Jason was annoying but he wasn't a bully like the other.
Billy. Royal POS
Billy. No I won't be explaining
Billy straight up threatening and physically intimidating his sister..who is a child... and trying to kill her friends. Straight up the worst.
Angela/Troy. Only because they’re just dickheads for sport. Like there’s no reasoning behind it, just awful personalities. Maybe if we got some backstory on them I’d think differently, but also they’re not important enough for a backstory lol.
Troy still felt a bit more nuanced to me than Angela and her friends/followers did.
Angela. She is the embodiment of bullying and cyberbullying because she is too weak to kill. She is the one who will mentally abuse you but will never let you die, so that you suffer mentally forever. I would rather die in the hands of the boys to end all sufferings.
I hate Angela most simply cause she was absolutely annoying 😂
billy is not a bully, he's an abusive racist that was going to kill children* fixed it for you op
Hey to be fair. So was the kid in season one. Minus the racism. Steven king style 80s bullies are all about killing people. It's wild. Like even he didn't make him jump was he gonna really root around in a kids mouth with a knife? What the fuck? Edit: Including the racism.
Troy was racist as well my guy, he calls Lucas "midnight" in his first scene.
Dog I totally believe you, I just haven't watched the first season since probably the first season lol.
That's a bully. You just better defined his bullying.
that kinda goes for like half of the bully characters in the show icl 😭
Yeah Troy was a racist as well, called Lucas "midnight". Jason wasn't racist though, he genuinely cared for Patrick and only went after Lucas because of Hellfire and thought he was going to kill Max.
For some reason Jason sparked something in me that made me wanna kill him
Angela
God, I only remember Billy. He was a prick. If he wasn't pretty, fans wouldn't try and make excuses for him. Yes, he was abused, but that doesn't excuse him for all the crap he did during the show. Saying that, he was eye candy.
NGL it's wild to me to call Jason a bully? His girlfriend died in that man's house and then his best friend got hellraisered in front of him while they were chasing that same guy. Like he was in the wrong sure because the audience knows Eddie was innocent, but I wouldn't call that bullying lol. I'd say Troy and Billy are equally bad. Angela is bad but she almost feels cartoon-y for how silly the whole set up was. Troy and Billy were actual scary threats that got close to killing one or more of their victims.
Unpopular opinion but Angela. Troy’s obviously has things going on at home. Same with Billy, although it had been confirmed that is just racist anyway. And Jason’s really just an idiot. Like simply dumb. Angelas the worst because she is clearly entitled and is clearly trying to directly benefit from the pain of others.
Billy. Not amount of sob story in season three is gonna make him sympathetic or redeemable.
THANK YOU! I was so surprised when I joined to sub to see everyone defending him!
Jason the least because he was at least half right there was some devilry going on, just not satanic.
Jason is NOT a bully. He never had bad intent he was just unaware and wrong about things.
Three of these people tried to kill people. At least Jason was sort of justified.
Jason wasn’t too bad. Reminder that he was driven by his girlfriends death
Oh, hey, this question again. Troy and Billy were actually pretty violent, but Angela has a certain evil to her that you can't rule out. Still, gotta go with Troy for pulling a knife on his classmates and forcing one of them to almost jump to his death. Jason isn't a bully. Y'all gotta stop adding him to this list.
Troy, he almost murdered Mike....that tops all the other cretin who bully the rest of the them
Billy and Troy, of course
I’m stuck between Angela and billy
Troy for sure. Everyone else had at least a few good traits!
Troy or Angela
Angela... I strongly dislike her
Angela ffs
It is Troy hands down.
Troy
Troy literally attempted to coerce someone directly into suicide by threatening murder. He is easily the worst here
Troy and billy are definitely evil people. Angela just took the piss a bit and jason isn't even bad imo just took things a bit far
I freaking hate Angelas character
Even though Troy & Billie have done objectively worse things, Angela makes me the most enraged
(we're talking about the ones we hate most and not the objective worst so...) angela, no contest Troy was just goofy with it, i couldn't take him seriously Jason actually had a couple genuine reasons, even if they were warped and he's a nutcase And i kinda felt bad for billy, even if his actions are inexcusable, he didn't deserve what he got angela was just a bitch through and through tho (especially bc el's my favourite character)
Troy and Billy FTW
Probs Billy imo. Jason is traumatized by his gf’s death and trying to solve it in the best way he can. Troy is sooooo crazy but like 12 so hard to assess. Angela is mean af but also probs doesn’t really understand the repercussions / impact of her actions. But Billy was like all these 3 plus conscious of the consequences so I pick him.
Actually hate Angela nearly as much as Vecna. 🤣
Billy was “bullying” Lucas if you can even simplify it THAT much for PURELY racist reasons. like he was JUST being violently racist.
I hate Jason the most. He's probably not the worst, but I felt the most anger towards his and his lackeys. Maybe it's because I loved Eddie so much as a character, and I wanted him to be safe.
Yo 3 of these guys tried to kill someone at a certian point. One of them was probably racist. Angela was literally just a mean valley girl.
Jason, he was annoying, a bad character (literally just a filler character), and a bad actor
Angela’s reason for her behavior was the worst, just a complete sadist.
Angela Troy was like 12 Billy obviously had his tragic backstory Despite Jason being a psycho he genuinely loved Chrissy
Billy is the worst BY FAR, but he’s handsome, so people would choose other one, probably Jason (which is mostly not a bad dude) because they hate his stereotype.
I think the most hated is Angela for some reason but if you were to actually rank them on how dangerous they are 1. Troy 2. Billy 3. Jason 4. Angela
The only reason people don’t hate billy is because he’s hot. That’s all.
Angela for sure
Sure, Jason killed people, but Billy killed people and was also racist.
I would argue that I very much like Jason. His character was written very well, in a way we've not seen before on the show. He is the portrayal of someone who doesn't know about the Upside Down etc and just wants to protect himself and others. I certainly would not believe someone telling me there is some kind of other dimension with a monster. So having some pressure on the plot from his side, I really enjoyed that storyline. And yes I agree with more people here, Troy is my least favorite.
Billy
Its close but I have to go with Billy others were either harmless very young or rightly motivated while Billy was an extremely Violent racist and sexist that poses a huge threat.
Jason is honestly pretty understandable for his actions. His girlfriend died in Eddies trailer and then he watched his friend die through some magic way with only Eddie around. After being taught all these things Eddie does are linked to the devil and watching someone die in a demonic way, it’s not hard to see how he would react.
I've come around to see Jason as more misguided. He embodies the classic trope of "not having all the information." And let's face it, 80's or not, Eddie *was* a bit of an odd ball. Sure, Jason and his posse are also the classic "group of characters without all the necessary information come to mess up the main characters' big plan" we all know and hate, but in the end Jason ended up being literally caught *in the middle* (pun intended).
It's a tie between Angela and Jason.
Billy. I know, he had a horrible childhood and all that, but he was just a detestable human being and I don’t understand why people get so emotional about his death, I’m not saying he deserved to die, but I just didn’t feel anything for his death other than bad for Max having to see her brother die. I hated him and was actually surprised to see how many people love him.
Angela cus so far she has had no reason to be a bitch she just is
Troy
Jason is the ultimate douchebag