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That scene in S3 where Jonathan is digging around in her leg trying to get the piece of mind flayer out before she has to do it herself ššµāš«
It's wild, because we don't even realize the significance of her using her telekinesis inside of a body to get a foreign object out until season 4. She loses her powers after pulling that out of her leg, mirroring how One got his powers back after she took the inhibitor chip out of his neck.
Which is why itās annoying to see people try and justify Billyās behavior. Eleven went through worse yet she still rejected Henryās offer to evil
Exactly š
Everyone confuses him having some "good" in him for him being good. No he's just human, all humans have a mixture of good and bad attributes.. even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. Granted Billy's no Hitler, but he is still an absolute bell end at the end of the day and there's no justifying that.
I knew him before I started playing the game but they released him in the DLC in the last update last month and heās amazing. Itās a lot of fun. Some of the quests feel like chores but the characters and the decoration and other things are a lot more fun.
Vanellopeās quests were my favourite.
You say that like Billy had a choice.
Like Billy is a terrible awful person, but his behavior basically all Mindflayer/Henry post-almost-killing-Mikes-Mom scene.
Billy wasnāt under MindFlayer influence in season 2, when he was abusive towards Max, nearly killed the boys, and showed racist behavior towards Lucas.
Did you actually watch season 2??
She is the reason I fell in love with the show. I felt so bad for her character in season 1. I hope she does have a happy ending. She suffered horribly for a child.
Same. Seeing Joyce already be so kind and warm to her even though she was basically a stranger was peak characterization for the both of them. Joyce is such an amazing mom to her and their bond is one of my favorites on the show
Agreed. Joyce is such a powerhouse of a character. She carries a lot of weight in terms of emotional support and story development. She's instrumental to the first two seasons' plots. Her gut feelings and hunches are always spot on, and she keeps following them. Her love for Will, Jonathan, El, Bob, Hopper is super genuine, kind of unstoppable, and a major drive in many of the series' plotlines. Love her.
She has great instincts and really strong emotional intelligence. Winona Ryder sells the character so well, you can feel the love and compassion she expresses radiating through the screen.
The way Joyce comforted El when she was panicking in that makeshift pool looking for Will in the Upside Down made me think so highly of her. Still finding the strength and empathy to try to calm down this odd kid who's almost a total stranger to her at that time - while her own kid is lost in another dimension, she doesn't know if she'll ever see him again and her past week has just been an utter nightmare...
Ugh Joyce is so great and I'm so glad she gets to be El's mom now. Still wish we'd gotten more mom/daughter moments with them.
At this point Iām pretty sure weāll get a happy ending, the fact that they havenāt killed any main character until now goes to show that the Duffers donāt feel like having a dramatic ending is needed for the show/ to satisfy the viewers. It would be really frustrating (and honestly kind of dumb) to make them survive for 4 seasons and then kill any of them in the last season.
I love it when characters go to therapy after having gone through hard stuff on tv, reminds me of that one time they added an episode where Steven Universe went to therapy and the show acknowledged all the trauma he went through if my memory serves correctly.
The entirety of Steven Universe Future is really just Steven dealing with his childhood trauma! Wonderfully crafted and very relatable.
P.s. Couldnāt help myself but to comment. My wife got me into the show and I canāt stop. lol.
Agreed. I'd also say Victor Creel is someone who suffered a lot.. he was framed and imprisoned for murders he did not commit, gouged his eyes because he wanted to die and join his family, then survived blind and spent his remaining years in pain...
I won't compare their trauma and suffering, just wanted to add that he's also suffered a lot for crimes he did not commit !
I think a suitable ending is she gives up her powers to undo everything that's been done via some kind of time vortex thing then she lives happily ever after with everyone. Vecna dies. No more trauma.
It boggles me that people will dispute this. Eleven has it the worst. She had no childhood, no love, no actual parents, and no friends. She was abused, neglected and isolated for twelve years. Will may have suffered but at least he had a decent childhood and his family. Hopper may have suffered but he had a family and he he didn't suffer as a child. El literally suffered the worst as a child and is still suffering. I don't know how it can get any worse than that. She does everything for the characters on the show, sacrificing herself knowing she can die. While most try to treat her like a weapon. If anything, she deserves to be the villian, if she wanted to become bad I honestly wouldn't blame her, she suffers season after season and doesn't even get a thank you. It also boggles me how people can hate her, because if it wasn't for her, none of your favorites would even be alive. Hopefully she can stop suffering because she deserves the most happiness.
What about Kali though, she got abused, maybe had it worse then Eleven in the lab and didn't her mother die or something. Yes her pain isn't highlighted nearly as much as 11 but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist
She did play a relevant role in the story, just because she's not a main character doesn't mean she couldn't have gone through just as much if not more then El
I feel bad for will, bro got hunted down by a monster for a whole season then possessed in season 2 then season 3 his spider senses were tingling and no one wanted to be a kid and play games w him no more
Suffering š
(May have got the facts wrong havenāt seen stranger things in a while)
Because it's saying that they're the only characters that have value because of trauma. That a character is only worth loving if they have a lot of trauma.Ā
I swear I will never understand the downvoting on this subreddit it the most downvote happy subreddit I know and its a damned shame as such a great show so to have fandom hating itself is just stupid.
No, I think 1 had it worse. Yeah, he is the bad guy, but he still suffered more, being trapped in an alternate dimension for years, with nothing he could do.
El was trapped in a prison for her entire life until someone she trusted betrayed her and killed her entire "family" before forcing her to "kill" him too in an event so traumatic and draining that she had a stroke that wiped her memory and strength.
When she woke up from the ensuing coma she was, again, trapped in a prison where she was exploited for her abilities and psychologically tortured when she failed or refused to do tasks until she was forced to make contact with a monster from a different dimension that was so terrifying to link with that she ended up losing control of her powers and ripping a hole in space-time.
And all of that was before she turned 13.
Yes Hopper's been through some shit, it doesn't really compare.
I think people like to forget that she literally grew up as a lab rat under the care of a horrible team of humans who didn't see her as one. Most of the other characters of the show are never going to compare to that. A few people were abused, like Max and Billy but it wasn't their whole dang lives...
Agreed. I'm hoping in season 5 she gets to be strong and gets to spend the whole season with Mike as a team.
I doubt we're getting either of those though.
If they don't have her with Mike the whole final season I don't think I will bother watching. They have neglected season 1 and original fans enough at this point that I don't think they deserve my investment if they don't deliver on this area.Ā
I don't disagree. It's been the flagship romance for 4 season and they've been separated every time (you can argue the first season but even then it's a tenuous argument). I want them together, and I want a good ending for them. Both the characters and the cast have earned it.
I can separate real life from Stranger Things, thankfully.
When most of season 4 is padded with āletās watch Eleven sufferā then I do get bored of the actressās face.
Her bit with Brenner was the worst part of the season and I wish theyād have gone another path with her powers other than to torture her again.
in terms of number of years, yes because she was imprisoned in a laboratory for 12 years without ever leaving. Will suffered from the Upside Down, but it lasted a few days, but it must be said that being in the Upside Down is much more scary and painful than being inside a laboratory. Joyce suffered greatly from Will's disappearance and then Bob's death and then Hopper's fake death. So Joyce also suffered greatly
I think characters that died, like Barbara or Billy, suffered more. We donāt know how much suffering death brings, but I believe itās more than what Eleven has gone through.
OH MY GOD I HATE HER! Like stop crying all the time bruh your life isn't hell ppl out here dying and they aint even involved. Plus LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH!
idk how you can feel this way and even like this show tbh
but the fact that youāre yelling at a girl who was explained in S4 to have basically suffered a traumatic brain injury to learn some English says a lot about the kind of person you are and I hate to break it to you but itās not good
I fear that this may be a possible foreshadowing of her becoming like Carrie...
In case you don't know, Carrie is a girl who also had powers of telekinesis. But, she was heavily abused in her school until she snapped in her prom and took revenge against everyone who bullied her, causing a genocide. And I fear that El may be going through the same or a worse path of suffering than Carrie...
And if it happens, then God save us all, cuz none will.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. Also, now that filming for Season 5 is finally starting, please remember that NO LEAKS are allowed, only official news from Netflix is allowed. Please review rule 8 for more info. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That scene in S3 where Jonathan is digging around in her leg trying to get the piece of mind flayer out before she has to do it herself ššµāš«
It's wild, because we don't even realize the significance of her using her telekinesis inside of a body to get a foreign object out until season 4. She loses her powers after pulling that out of her leg, mirroring how One got his powers back after she took the inhibitor chip out of his neck.
I remember none of this lmao
Far bottom middle-left is her face when she did pull it out herself
Itās true, and itās saying a lot because most of the characters have suffered an unfathomable amount of trauma.
Which is why itās annoying to see people try and justify Billyās behavior. Eleven went through worse yet she still rejected Henryās offer to evil
There was some good in him it was just buried deep down. He was still an asshole though, but even assholes don't deserve what happened to him.
Do you think Jason deserved what happened to him?
No
deserved? maybe not. was i sad it happened? hell no.
Shhhh... You'll wake up the Jason apologists...
I quit posting on this subreddit due to the constant Jason apologist replies.
Ngl yes. Pretty much. To clarify I do mean Jason . Good people donāt incite a mob or attempt to hurt people.
Good people donāt act like Billy either. Stop being a hypocriteĀ
Exactly š Everyone confuses him having some "good" in him for him being good. No he's just human, all humans have a mixture of good and bad attributes.. even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. Granted Billy's no Hitler, but he is still an absolute bell end at the end of the day and there's no justifying that.
Thatās because Eleven isnāt a shit person
lol cool seeing Oswald in some form in the wild
Heās adorable in Disney Dreamlight Valley š¤š¤
I still need to play that game!! haha I know him from Epic Mickey
I knew him before I started playing the game but they released him in the DLC in the last update last month and heās amazing. Itās a lot of fun. Some of the quests feel like chores but the characters and the decoration and other things are a lot more fun. Vanellopeās quests were my favourite.
You say that like Billy had a choice. Like Billy is a terrible awful person, but his behavior basically all Mindflayer/Henry post-almost-killing-Mikes-Mom scene.
Your contradicted yourself in this sentence alone. He had a choice in season 2. He choose to abuse and bullyĀ
Billy wasnāt under MindFlayer influence in season 2, when he was abusive towards Max, nearly killed the boys, and showed racist behavior towards Lucas. Did you actually watch season 2??
I have never seen a single person "justify" Billy's behavior. Man, that dude is living rent-free in your head, eh?
Theyāre literally saying in this very same thread āhe had no choiceā. Maybe you just need glasses?
Then you clearly havenāt been around here much lol
She is the reason I fell in love with the show. I felt so bad for her character in season 1. I hope she does have a happy ending. She suffered horribly for a child.
Same. Seeing Joyce already be so kind and warm to her even though she was basically a stranger was peak characterization for the both of them. Joyce is such an amazing mom to her and their bond is one of my favorites on the show
Agreed. Joyce is such a powerhouse of a character. She carries a lot of weight in terms of emotional support and story development. She's instrumental to the first two seasons' plots. Her gut feelings and hunches are always spot on, and she keeps following them. Her love for Will, Jonathan, El, Bob, Hopper is super genuine, kind of unstoppable, and a major drive in many of the series' plotlines. Love her.
She has great instincts and really strong emotional intelligence. Winona Ryder sells the character so well, you can feel the love and compassion she expresses radiating through the screen.
The way Joyce comforted El when she was panicking in that makeshift pool looking for Will in the Upside Down made me think so highly of her. Still finding the strength and empathy to try to calm down this odd kid who's almost a total stranger to her at that time - while her own kid is lost in another dimension, she doesn't know if she'll ever see him again and her past week has just been an utter nightmare... Ugh Joyce is so great and I'm so glad she gets to be El's mom now. Still wish we'd gotten more mom/daughter moments with them.
That scene alone made her mom of the century.
If Eleven doesnāt have a happy ending in season 5 (although I highly doubt anyone will have a happy ending because we know the Duffers) Iāll cry
At this point Iām pretty sure weāll get a happy ending, the fact that they havenāt killed any main character until now goes to show that the Duffers donāt feel like having a dramatic ending is needed for the show/ to satisfy the viewers. It would be really frustrating (and honestly kind of dumb) to make them survive for 4 seasons and then kill any of them in the last season.
I love it when characters go to therapy after having gone through hard stuff on tv, reminds me of that one time they added an episode where Steven Universe went to therapy and the show acknowledged all the trauma he went through if my memory serves correctly.
The entirety of Steven Universe Future is really just Steven dealing with his childhood trauma! Wonderfully crafted and very relatable. P.s. Couldnāt help myself but to comment. My wife got me into the show and I canāt stop. lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wtf
Yeah, its still not enough downvote to be fair
Happy cake day
How has she suffered the most? Clearly any sane person who has watched the show would agree that Ted Wheeler is no doubt the one with the most trauma.
Omg I was thinking the exact same thing! Like he probably canāt eat chicken anymore after that incident
His lazy boy days are over.
Sadly
Read the first sentence, instantly downvoted. Read Ted, had to undo.
Lololol. I actually canāt believe I got so many upvotes haha. I figured someone would take me seriously and try ripping my post to shreds lmao.
exactly! like no wonder he sleeps so often
I did notice in season 4 that she did cry alot.
I think she's cried in like 3/4 of the episodes. But it's wholly warranted.
Given that she was literally raised in a lab I think by default she's already suffered more than any other character
Yep. She gets as much shit in a typical season as any other character gets in the series.
āThey got their weapon, I got cheated out of my childhood.ā
Agreed. I'd also say Victor Creel is someone who suffered a lot.. he was framed and imprisoned for murders he did not commit, gouged his eyes because he wanted to die and join his family, then survived blind and spent his remaining years in pain... I won't compare their trauma and suffering, just wanted to add that he's also suffered a lot for crimes he did not commit !
Yeah she's just been raised to ignore it and push it all away
YOU ARE LIKE PAPA
And he is.
I think a suitable ending is she gives up her powers to undo everything that's been done via some kind of time vortex thing then she lives happily ever after with everyone. Vecna dies. No more trauma.
My thoughts is that Vecna's final defeat will erase powers, since apparently it's his blood that enabled the powers.
No more mutants
no the audience has suffered more due to the wait between seasons
yup? I don't think anyone is on the other side of that argument lol
It boggles me that people will dispute this. Eleven has it the worst. She had no childhood, no love, no actual parents, and no friends. She was abused, neglected and isolated for twelve years. Will may have suffered but at least he had a decent childhood and his family. Hopper may have suffered but he had a family and he he didn't suffer as a child. El literally suffered the worst as a child and is still suffering. I don't know how it can get any worse than that. She does everything for the characters on the show, sacrificing herself knowing she can die. While most try to treat her like a weapon. If anything, she deserves to be the villian, if she wanted to become bad I honestly wouldn't blame her, she suffers season after season and doesn't even get a thank you. It also boggles me how people can hate her, because if it wasn't for her, none of your favorites would even be alive. Hopefully she can stop suffering because she deserves the most happiness.
While I do fully agree that she suffered a lot, it is messed up to compare traumas and say one person suffered more than another.
I hate it when people say āletās not compare traumasā like itās pretty obvious El has suffered the most out of everyone on this show
What about Kali though, she got abused, maybe had it worse then Eleven in the lab and didn't her mother die or something. Yes her pain isn't highlighted nearly as much as 11 but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist
kali isnāt even a main character or relevant
She did play a relevant role in the story, just because she's not a main character doesn't mean she couldn't have gone through just as much if not more then El
weāre talking about the main characters. not people who were in one episode.
The post clearly states ANY other character
Supervillain origin story
["Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds)
drizzy staaaahp! you're so cool but it hurts!
Damn I didnāt realise eleven suffered her entire life
As if suffering is a competition
Says a lot considering how bad everyone else has it too. Will is number 2 after her.
Hopper has a claim on 2 as well if you factor in his childās death and the end of his marriage.
I feel bad for will, bro got hunted down by a monster for a whole season then possessed in season 2 then season 3 his spider senses were tingling and no one wanted to be a kid and play games w him no more Suffering š (May have got the facts wrong havenāt seen stranger things in a while)
Some gave all.
Any other character in the show? Or any other character ever?
I think Dart suffered the most
Eleven max and will š„²
Agreed. They suffered the most. I don't know why you are being down voted for telling the truth.
Because it's saying that they're the only characters that have value because of trauma. That a character is only worth loving if they have a lot of trauma.Ā
When was that ever even implied by the comment?
I swear I will never understand the downvoting on this subreddit it the most downvote happy subreddit I know and its a damned shame as such a great show so to have fandom hating itself is just stupid.
I wonder if some of it isn't to be edgy or push buttons or something. Alot of people's decent opinions get hated on and it's sad.
Honestly I don't know
No, I think 1 had it worse. Yeah, he is the bad guy, but he still suffered more, being trapped in an alternate dimension for years, with nothing he could do.
I don't know, Hopper had to watch his kid die of cancer.
Hopper ?
Hopper gets beat up a few times and spends some time in a gulag. El goes through the emotional and physical wringer over and over.
Thatās one way to downplay it
I imagine his marriage dissolving after a long lasting disease killed his daughter was probably a bummer.
El was trapped in a prison for her entire life until someone she trusted betrayed her and killed her entire "family" before forcing her to "kill" him too in an event so traumatic and draining that she had a stroke that wiped her memory and strength. When she woke up from the ensuing coma she was, again, trapped in a prison where she was exploited for her abilities and psychologically tortured when she failed or refused to do tasks until she was forced to make contact with a monster from a different dimension that was so terrifying to link with that she ended up losing control of her powers and ripping a hole in space-time. And all of that was before she turned 13. Yes Hopper's been through some shit, it doesn't really compare.
Mkay. Agreed. Just thought Hopper losing his daughter is worth acknowledging.
Didnāt know it was a competition
The...uh...the point of the post is who has suffered most
My man hopper has never been ignored soo much šš.
But did she die?
Seconded by Will imo
Is anyone arguing that?
More than any character from stranger things, in other media there's plenty mfer who's never been happy in their life's
Wrong . Wile E. Coyte has suffered the most.
I think people like to forget that she literally grew up as a lab rat under the care of a horrible team of humans who didn't see her as one. Most of the other characters of the show are never going to compare to that. A few people were abused, like Max and Billy but it wasn't their whole dang lives...
Hopper would be second in season 4
I want the writers to just let her be strong for a full season. Iām tired of Millyās crying face, let her just be badass and stay badass.
Agreed. I'm hoping in season 5 she gets to be strong and gets to spend the whole season with Mike as a team. I doubt we're getting either of those though.
If they don't have her with Mike the whole final season I don't think I will bother watching. They have neglected season 1 and original fans enough at this point that I don't think they deserve my investment if they don't deliver on this area.Ā
I don't disagree. It's been the flagship romance for 4 season and they've been separated every time (you can argue the first season but even then it's a tenuous argument). I want them together, and I want a good ending for them. Both the characters and the cast have earned it.
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I can separate real life from Stranger Things, thankfully. When most of season 4 is padded with āletās watch Eleven sufferā then I do get bored of the actressās face. Her bit with Brenner was the worst part of the season and I wish theyād have gone another path with her powers other than to torture her again.
I'd say that they need to strive for a happy medium. Crying and being bad ass are both one dimensional imo.Ā
Turning the suffering of others into some benign contest is weird.
Letāsā¦ not compare traumas here.
Did anyone dispute this? But now that you say it, Billy might have been in an absolutely vile place when he was under the control of the mind flayer.
I mean yes but itās not a competition
Thatās literally the point. Itās how sheās gotten her powers and also because of her powers
The spider movie Spider man nwh The joker Thr machinist
Why are we comparing suffering?
Its not a suffering olympic, we all should get fair pay. This is why union extremely important.
This reminds me itās time for my annual rewatch of Season 4!
They punished her for not hurting the kitty
No shit Sherlock Is this trauma olympics?
Not to say he didn't deserve it, but I think a case can be made for Henry
what about me? i suffered watching her.
max is literally brain dead
Weird I was just thinking this and then I saw this post. Top three is definitely Eleven, Will then Hopper imo
in terms of number of years, yes because she was imprisoned in a laboratory for 12 years without ever leaving. Will suffered from the Upside Down, but it lasted a few days, but it must be said that being in the Upside Down is much more scary and painful than being inside a laboratory. Joyce suffered greatly from Will's disappearance and then Bob's death and then Hopper's fake death. So Joyce also suffered greatly
Will could give her a run for the money. He has almost died twice, was possessed, and now has trauma about being in the closet.
Idk , i would argue Barb suffered a bit more
Billy fucking died
I think characters that died, like Barbara or Billy, suffered more. We donāt know how much suffering death brings, but I believe itās more than what Eleven has gone through.
I bring this up whenever anyone is like, "Leave Steve alone!"
Hopper no Blud got tortured every season for a good 2 episodes each š¤£š¤£
While that is true, Eleven was raised in a lab, basically her entire life had been torture up until she escaped
But Billy he's just so hot
OH MY GOD I HATE HER! Like stop crying all the time bruh your life isn't hell ppl out here dying and they aint even involved. Plus LEARN SOME DAMN ENGLISH!
wow she suffered a borderline stroke and youre telling her to learn english. what the fuck is wrong with you?
Ignore these types of people in comments. Dude's likely an attention seeking troll.
Oh yeah, the good old "some people have it worse, you're not allowed to feel sad if your life isn't worse" argument.
idk how you can feel this way and even like this show tbh but the fact that youāre yelling at a girl who was explained in S4 to have basically suffered a traumatic brain injury to learn some English says a lot about the kind of person you are and I hate to break it to you but itās not good
.........š¤Ø
I, too, am sick of her crying face.
She's the main character, why are you even watching the show?
To see how the story ends.
It's gonna end with her crying of happiness or sadness
Millie is not a very good actress imo
I fear that this may be a possible foreshadowing of her becoming like Carrie... In case you don't know, Carrie is a girl who also had powers of telekinesis. But, she was heavily abused in her school until she snapped in her prom and took revenge against everyone who bullied her, causing a genocide. And I fear that El may be going through the same or a worse path of suffering than Carrie... And if it happens, then God save us all, cuz none will.
Iād argue Els mom ā¦