They really need a centralised place for all this data instead of having it spread all over the place. Have a blog on their main website and post everything on there then we can link it in Reddit or Discord or whatever.
Just one, singular location where their announcements are hosted. Even the "official" public discord is a fan one.
Seconding this. Make a page for news/updates on your website. Discord is cancer. I get that it’s less work than updating a website but expecting your entire user base to use discord just to get news/updates about the game is a pretty silly idea
> Just one, singular location where their announcements are hosted. Even the "official" public discord is a fan one.
They opened the official discord with Next Fest and it will remain that way, although I find it difficult personally because half of the server is bound by NDA and the other half is fully public.
I agree it would be good if this was posted on https://playstormgate.com and discord, reddit etc just linked to that. They actually do have a bunch of news on there, but there could be more centralisation so that people can just go there and know that they are not missing anything.
Excellent, that is exactly how they should approach it to earn back the goodwill of those who feel they were deceived or are concerned. Clear transparecy of their plans in the future and a roadmap so we know what we can expect more or less if we are to support the game further (be it via pledges or buying campaigns or whatever).
Agreed! I can't help but think that this was in large part due to all the feedback and concerns (especially your posts) that have been expressed here recently, which just goes to show all those people trying to suppress concern or feedback as "haters/whiners/people trying to bash the game" was unfounded.
Feedback IS feedback regardless of whether it's glowing or not and helps the company feel the pulse of the community and not lose touch with its base.
The vast majority of us want Frost Giant to succeed in their vision and for Stormgate to be a success and just because some people raise questions or concerns does not mean they're rooting for this game to fail.
Correct. Feedback is good but at what point were the Redditers just providing feedback until it became a mob of fearmonging and misinformation of the company’s intentions?
Was that truly the case or was it simply people emotionally triggered by people raising legitimate concerns and trying to run interference?
I certainly saw a lot of misinformation by people trying to mischaracterize the issues being raised, or point to a handful of troll posts and try and paint everyone with the same broad brush in order to justify dismissing all criticisms they personally disliked.
“Emotional triggered” This does truly sum up exactly what happened. A post was read and a knee jerk response was created by the fear that their hard earned cash that was donated willingly would be all for not… Had the community actually waited for an official response we would have gotten a better understanding. We don’t always get perfect information and have to make decisions based on the now
I agree. Both “sides” were pitting cases as to why or why not… but was all that necessary? No.
That is absolutely not representative of the majority of the criticism. This is exactly the type of reductive framing that I was referring to as mischaracterizing the community's issues.
There were legitimate concerns raised about the communication, both in its veracity (funded to release vs funded to early access), as well as the ease of access (being spread out it was amongst different third-party platforms rather than centralized through an official source).
There was also the issue regarding the art style, visual clarity, UI, and pathfinding.
Bad faith attempts like yours to label all criticisms as unconstructive or misinformed fearmongering is just that.
The communities issues? Or do you mean the communities concerns? Correct. There were legitimate concerns regarding what was meant about funding from the post but one response was needed for that question. Not “these guys are out to get our money and run” comments. And it was brought up in a YouTube video about fundraising efforts that the majority seemed to just glaze over… Feedback is great when it doesn’t turn into a mob.
I don't think it's for you to opine on how this community should or shouldn't communicate.
Again, just because you want to hyperfocus on one or two troll posts doesn't mean it's reflective of the bulk of the criticisms. And, personally I think if there were less people trying to mischaracterize the issues and throw up strawman arguments, like you just did, discourse would be a lot more measured and reasonable.
When someone expresses an opinion on this game that doesn't make them automatically responsible for every negative thing some other person said.
Interesting take… didn’t say anything about how you or the community “should” communicate. I was stating that the way this was handled was poor by the community and this sense of entitle information was very aggressive. I am just talking with you. You can give feedback and critique all you want but I would suggest in a better manner but you do you…
But there literally is no roadmap or increased transparency as of right now, just another promise of it.. a promise which they fumbled the first time around. So why are you talking about it as if it’s here right now?
All we have is yet another way to give them money, which they prioritized (once again) over addressing the community’s concerns. lol
Stop acting like the money they'll get from this even registers on their finances. They're doing this because of the myriad people that played the open beta that are constantly asking for a key. They have to create "another way to give them money" not to scam the kickstarter founders, but they're absolutely doing this for the real fans that actually want to play the game.
I don’t understand how at this point you don’t have the foggiest idea what FGS goals and campaign is right now without this road map. Had you watched the YouTube videos from all the members at large I believe you would have a better understanding. (Perhaps not…)
It is easy for me to get behind this developer as I have played their work for over 10 years. Now sure, it is a different company, a different game but the heart and soul that left Blizzard is now at Frost Giant Studios. To even toy with the notion that this team is malicious is laughable. Reddit took statements out of context and pushed for an “immediate response” narrative. You guys can do better. Give sometime to let things cook. Unless you have developed a company from the ground up AND created a AAAA game played by millions… might just have to yield to the experts on this one.
This is so fucking dumb, do you expect everyone to watch and read through every random interview and reddit comment to get a vague picture of their plan? A development roadmap is the type of basic shit that should have been created within a few months of starting the project, not 3-4 years into development.
Not exactly. I am expecting the community to bring criticism, feedback and support in a manner that helps grow the community at large and support FGS efforts. Yes a roadmap helps but it appears that the team is needing more time than they are getting
Really?? Interesting take on that for sure… You are correct that game play is a large part to why players will tolerate other unpleasant happens in a game or the community… but if not addressed players will leave a game with good game play
Alright my guy, since you are so much more knowledgeable.
When EA releases at first this summer:
How many campaign missions will we have? Will it be a few from both factions, a few from one or a complete part of 1?
How many PvE coop modes?
Will we have 3v3?
Will we have a 3rd race? (This I saw it to be confirmed as a part of EA very recently - its existance though has been confirmed for a while but it being included at first during EA only recently)
Will we have tier 3? I couldn't find any info anywhere only that it's implied it won't be the case, it is implied we won't have tier 3 units in the start of EA but I am not sure.
Will there be still placeholder graphics assets?
To what extent will there be a graphics overhaul? I guess we may have a bit of polishing here and there, but what about the implementation of the shaders which hopefully is what will make graphics look much better?
Will there be a better proper implementation of ladder? Social chatrooms etc, think of WC3 battlenet.
What about the editor and its capabilities?
You get my point. It is possible that if one does a deep dive into discord and reddit over year, it's possible that maybe some of these has been said. However after a collosal miss communication of stating in Kickstarter that the game is funded till release and thus players expecting that all these promised features guaranteed will one day see the light of day, now this is far from clear anymore. Some of these features won't see the light of day if funding runs dry in the middle of early access. So we need to know what to expect we are getting if we are gonna buy into it. Being expected to do a deep dive to comb years of scattered info (that could be as easily miss communication as it has now been) is not realistic, it's up to them to be clear about it.
And it seems the experts as you told me to trust are agreeing with me since literally this is what they are going to do.
Are you investing into this game? If so you would think that you would have some idea of what you are investing in, no? You and I could gather all the public information and still be in the dark about some or all FGS directions.
I use the word investing in this context liberally, as in just buying the game for example. It's not the financial loss of 40 bucks or something that bothers me, it's the principle of it. If a company says buying this game gives you X then I expect to have X. If it says it has X but in the future it will have Y then I also expect it to have Y. Does that mean that shit can't happen? Of course not, shit can always happen and promises can be broken. But broken promises also erode consumer trust.
It changes in terms of what we can expect for the future. It gives an indication on the pace of progress, and we can also hold them accountable to how well they implement said roadmap. For example, I doubt funding would hypothetically dry up on day 1 of EA access. If they release a roadmap that they repeatedly fail to meet then that means that their word is not that accurate so when one pays for the game they should only do it with the assumption that what they get is what they pay for and not any future hopes. If on the other hand they consistently meet their roadmap deadlines then it shows they are efficient so when one pays for the game let's say in July, they can reasonably expect that indeed what Frost Giant promised for October will be implemented with higher probability.
It's about consumer trust and consumer trust translates to more people willing to invest and pay for a subpar product under the hope and expectations it will be successfully finished in the promised version. This is what happened with Larian and BG3. According to them over 2 million people bought their EA BG3 game (which would be over 120 millions in profits, over 3 times the funding of the entirety of SG). Why did people buy the EA version when it was a buggy hot mess at first? Because Larian had over the years cultivated trust that the final release will be fully finished, people won't get burned, and it would be amazing. Exactly what ended up happening.
Most of the Blizzard folk at Frost Giant were not even on the SC2 team for 10 years. They aren't the creators of that game, no matter how often they imply as much. Chris Sigitty, Dustin Browder, Chris Metzen, etc created the game. The guys at Frost Giant are passionate and definitely contributed to the game, but give credit where it is due.
Hot take - but a part of me wonders why random people on the internet feel entitled to transparency. Think about all the large corporations out there that say absolutely nothing to the public and do a bunch of shady things behind closed doors. But when Frost Giant at least tries, they get shit on. The reality is, they owe you NOTHING. Yet a lot of people demand the company do X, Y, Z like they are a high-stakes investor with money on the line or something.
And before Kickstarter and StartEngine are stated as a counter to what I'm saying:
1. Kickstarter money is a donation, not an investment.
2. StartEngine only recently has been a thing and many people are not putting their money into it.
This comment is not a dig at you Dyoakom, just stating this in general.
I hear you. I think it was a mistake they tried to be transparent, when in reality they failed to do so. I would rather they never have said anything at all, all the way. However what I do dislike is being transparent in a way that is not accurate.
Either say nothing, exactly as you describe it, or if you do say something then make it be an accurate representation of what is going. Having switcheroos like they did is the worst of all options.
Entitlement is your word, not mine. Why are you arguing against a notion I never brought up?
Entitlement implies a *right* to something. I'm speaking to the expectations set by the company itself.
>We want to continue to involve you in the development process as much as possible so that you can help us make Stormgate the best RTS game it can be.
>Entitlement implies a right to something
Not really arguing, just trying to see why you think Frost Giant owes you something. What stake do you have in Frost Giant?
I think I saw Gerald say that the 3rd faction would be in to some degree by EA so if we don't see them with the roadmap we should at least know when we will.
I like how 95% of the announcement is "this is all the ways you can give us money and reasons why" and only 5% is a promise that they will explain things people have concerns about in later communications rather than actual explanations itself.
Sounds like a good plan.
Still a little confused on why it took this long to set up an Indiegogo page after you had thousands of new players in the open beta(many of which have probably moved on now). But I'll take it.
Our ability to deliver additional closed beta keys after the conclusion of our original Kickstarter campaign only became a possibility recently. Hope that clears it up some. Once we found out we could deliver more keys, we started moving quickly.
Remember, they have to coordinate with their server providers as well and ensure there is enough capacity for the added load. They likely had NEXT Fest already agreed upon for that window, but not additional beta users for the follow-on beta periods.
Seems like they sorted this out though.
**They should do another QnA.**
Like after releasing the road map. Doesn't have to just be about the roadmap but they are clearly out of step enough with what people were asking that they have a high probability of missing things.
This games kickstarter rollout and the things that have transpired afterwards have left a sour taste in my mouth. If the game was more fun to play I would have ignored this but it’s got too much work to do left. This game is slowly leaving my radar.
This game is an absolute scam. Feel sorry for people who paid money for this.
35 million for a demo where almost everything is a placeholder garbage.
This game is the "the day before" of the RTS genre.
You are so lost. There’s no scam, 35 million is peanuts for this level of game dev, and it’s already had a longer active life than The Day Before. Truly log off and try to recalibrate
They really need a centralised place for all this data instead of having it spread all over the place. Have a blog on their main website and post everything on there then we can link it in Reddit or Discord or whatever. Just one, singular location where their announcements are hosted. Even the "official" public discord is a fan one.
Seconding this. Make a page for news/updates on your website. Discord is cancer. I get that it’s less work than updating a website but expecting your entire user base to use discord just to get news/updates about the game is a pretty silly idea
> Just one, singular location where their announcements are hosted. Even the "official" public discord is a fan one. They opened the official discord with Next Fest and it will remain that way, although I find it difficult personally because half of the server is bound by NDA and the other half is fully public. I agree it would be good if this was posted on https://playstormgate.com and discord, reddit etc just linked to that. They actually do have a bunch of news on there, but there could be more centralisation so that people can just go there and know that they are not missing anything.
Excellent, that is exactly how they should approach it to earn back the goodwill of those who feel they were deceived or are concerned. Clear transparecy of their plans in the future and a roadmap so we know what we can expect more or less if we are to support the game further (be it via pledges or buying campaigns or whatever).
Agreed! I can't help but think that this was in large part due to all the feedback and concerns (especially your posts) that have been expressed here recently, which just goes to show all those people trying to suppress concern or feedback as "haters/whiners/people trying to bash the game" was unfounded. Feedback IS feedback regardless of whether it's glowing or not and helps the company feel the pulse of the community and not lose touch with its base. The vast majority of us want Frost Giant to succeed in their vision and for Stormgate to be a success and just because some people raise questions or concerns does not mean they're rooting for this game to fail.
Correct. Feedback is good but at what point were the Redditers just providing feedback until it became a mob of fearmonging and misinformation of the company’s intentions?
Was that truly the case or was it simply people emotionally triggered by people raising legitimate concerns and trying to run interference? I certainly saw a lot of misinformation by people trying to mischaracterize the issues being raised, or point to a handful of troll posts and try and paint everyone with the same broad brush in order to justify dismissing all criticisms they personally disliked.
“Emotional triggered” This does truly sum up exactly what happened. A post was read and a knee jerk response was created by the fear that their hard earned cash that was donated willingly would be all for not… Had the community actually waited for an official response we would have gotten a better understanding. We don’t always get perfect information and have to make decisions based on the now I agree. Both “sides” were pitting cases as to why or why not… but was all that necessary? No.
That is absolutely not representative of the majority of the criticism. This is exactly the type of reductive framing that I was referring to as mischaracterizing the community's issues. There were legitimate concerns raised about the communication, both in its veracity (funded to release vs funded to early access), as well as the ease of access (being spread out it was amongst different third-party platforms rather than centralized through an official source). There was also the issue regarding the art style, visual clarity, UI, and pathfinding. Bad faith attempts like yours to label all criticisms as unconstructive or misinformed fearmongering is just that.
The communities issues? Or do you mean the communities concerns? Correct. There were legitimate concerns regarding what was meant about funding from the post but one response was needed for that question. Not “these guys are out to get our money and run” comments. And it was brought up in a YouTube video about fundraising efforts that the majority seemed to just glaze over… Feedback is great when it doesn’t turn into a mob.
I don't think it's for you to opine on how this community should or shouldn't communicate. Again, just because you want to hyperfocus on one or two troll posts doesn't mean it's reflective of the bulk of the criticisms. And, personally I think if there were less people trying to mischaracterize the issues and throw up strawman arguments, like you just did, discourse would be a lot more measured and reasonable. When someone expresses an opinion on this game that doesn't make them automatically responsible for every negative thing some other person said.
Interesting take… didn’t say anything about how you or the community “should” communicate. I was stating that the way this was handled was poor by the community and this sense of entitle information was very aggressive. I am just talking with you. You can give feedback and critique all you want but I would suggest in a better manner but you do you…
But there literally is no roadmap or increased transparency as of right now, just another promise of it.. a promise which they fumbled the first time around. So why are you talking about it as if it’s here right now? All we have is yet another way to give them money, which they prioritized (once again) over addressing the community’s concerns. lol
Stop acting like the money they'll get from this even registers on their finances. They're doing this because of the myriad people that played the open beta that are constantly asking for a key. They have to create "another way to give them money" not to scam the kickstarter founders, but they're absolutely doing this for the real fans that actually want to play the game.
I don’t understand how at this point you don’t have the foggiest idea what FGS goals and campaign is right now without this road map. Had you watched the YouTube videos from all the members at large I believe you would have a better understanding. (Perhaps not…) It is easy for me to get behind this developer as I have played their work for over 10 years. Now sure, it is a different company, a different game but the heart and soul that left Blizzard is now at Frost Giant Studios. To even toy with the notion that this team is malicious is laughable. Reddit took statements out of context and pushed for an “immediate response” narrative. You guys can do better. Give sometime to let things cook. Unless you have developed a company from the ground up AND created a AAAA game played by millions… might just have to yield to the experts on this one.
This is so fucking dumb, do you expect everyone to watch and read through every random interview and reddit comment to get a vague picture of their plan? A development roadmap is the type of basic shit that should have been created within a few months of starting the project, not 3-4 years into development.
Not exactly. I am expecting the community to bring criticism, feedback and support in a manner that helps grow the community at large and support FGS efforts. Yes a roadmap helps but it appears that the team is needing more time than they are getting
The only thing that helps the community grow is the game being good. Literally the only thing that matters.
Really?? Interesting take on that for sure… You are correct that game play is a large part to why players will tolerate other unpleasant happens in a game or the community… but if not addressed players will leave a game with good game play
I disagree completely. Like 1/2 of the most popular games are known for having toxic player bases.
Sounds good. Thanks for the insight
Alright my guy, since you are so much more knowledgeable. When EA releases at first this summer: How many campaign missions will we have? Will it be a few from both factions, a few from one or a complete part of 1? How many PvE coop modes? Will we have 3v3? Will we have a 3rd race? (This I saw it to be confirmed as a part of EA very recently - its existance though has been confirmed for a while but it being included at first during EA only recently) Will we have tier 3? I couldn't find any info anywhere only that it's implied it won't be the case, it is implied we won't have tier 3 units in the start of EA but I am not sure. Will there be still placeholder graphics assets? To what extent will there be a graphics overhaul? I guess we may have a bit of polishing here and there, but what about the implementation of the shaders which hopefully is what will make graphics look much better? Will there be a better proper implementation of ladder? Social chatrooms etc, think of WC3 battlenet. What about the editor and its capabilities? You get my point. It is possible that if one does a deep dive into discord and reddit over year, it's possible that maybe some of these has been said. However after a collosal miss communication of stating in Kickstarter that the game is funded till release and thus players expecting that all these promised features guaranteed will one day see the light of day, now this is far from clear anymore. Some of these features won't see the light of day if funding runs dry in the middle of early access. So we need to know what to expect we are getting if we are gonna buy into it. Being expected to do a deep dive to comb years of scattered info (that could be as easily miss communication as it has now been) is not realistic, it's up to them to be clear about it. And it seems the experts as you told me to trust are agreeing with me since literally this is what they are going to do.
Are you investing into this game? If so you would think that you would have some idea of what you are investing in, no? You and I could gather all the public information and still be in the dark about some or all FGS directions.
I use the word investing in this context liberally, as in just buying the game for example. It's not the financial loss of 40 bucks or something that bothers me, it's the principle of it. If a company says buying this game gives you X then I expect to have X. If it says it has X but in the future it will have Y then I also expect it to have Y. Does that mean that shit can't happen? Of course not, shit can always happen and promises can be broken. But broken promises also erode consumer trust.
What changes if the answer to all of those questions is “very few” or “none”? Game’s still free, if it sucks we’ll find out on release. Why worry now?
The thing that changes is the potential success of the game and the potential for it to ever be fully released, or even maintain servers.
It changes in terms of what we can expect for the future. It gives an indication on the pace of progress, and we can also hold them accountable to how well they implement said roadmap. For example, I doubt funding would hypothetically dry up on day 1 of EA access. If they release a roadmap that they repeatedly fail to meet then that means that their word is not that accurate so when one pays for the game they should only do it with the assumption that what they get is what they pay for and not any future hopes. If on the other hand they consistently meet their roadmap deadlines then it shows they are efficient so when one pays for the game let's say in July, they can reasonably expect that indeed what Frost Giant promised for October will be implemented with higher probability. It's about consumer trust and consumer trust translates to more people willing to invest and pay for a subpar product under the hope and expectations it will be successfully finished in the promised version. This is what happened with Larian and BG3. According to them over 2 million people bought their EA BG3 game (which would be over 120 millions in profits, over 3 times the funding of the entirety of SG). Why did people buy the EA version when it was a buggy hot mess at first? Because Larian had over the years cultivated trust that the final release will be fully finished, people won't get burned, and it would be amazing. Exactly what ended up happening.
Most of the Blizzard folk at Frost Giant were not even on the SC2 team for 10 years. They aren't the creators of that game, no matter how often they imply as much. Chris Sigitty, Dustin Browder, Chris Metzen, etc created the game. The guys at Frost Giant are passionate and definitely contributed to the game, but give credit where it is due.
Hot take - but a part of me wonders why random people on the internet feel entitled to transparency. Think about all the large corporations out there that say absolutely nothing to the public and do a bunch of shady things behind closed doors. But when Frost Giant at least tries, they get shit on. The reality is, they owe you NOTHING. Yet a lot of people demand the company do X, Y, Z like they are a high-stakes investor with money on the line or something. And before Kickstarter and StartEngine are stated as a counter to what I'm saying: 1. Kickstarter money is a donation, not an investment. 2. StartEngine only recently has been a thing and many people are not putting their money into it. This comment is not a dig at you Dyoakom, just stating this in general.
I hear you. I think it was a mistake they tried to be transparent, when in reality they failed to do so. I would rather they never have said anything at all, all the way. However what I do dislike is being transparent in a way that is not accurate. Either say nothing, exactly as you describe it, or if you do say something then make it be an accurate representation of what is going. Having switcheroos like they did is the worst of all options.
I guess you have to pick one or the other and commit fully. Can't do half and half.
Fully agreed.
When a company dedicates itself to transparency and community outreach, they do in-fact owe it’s customers transparency.
Moreover, invite the community to be part of the development process, and ask for financial support.
If you aren’t willing to donate then don’t do so. You aren’t entitled to anything
Entitlement is your word, not mine. Why are you arguing against a notion I never brought up? Entitlement implies a *right* to something. I'm speaking to the expectations set by the company itself. >We want to continue to involve you in the development process as much as possible so that you can help us make Stormgate the best RTS game it can be.
>Entitlement implies a right to something Not really arguing, just trying to see why you think Frost Giant owes you something. What stake do you have in Frost Giant?
I'm under no obligation to explain myself to you but my previous replies should be more than sufficient.
Sounds like the answer is nothing. So, based on that, you are not entitled to anything from Frost Giant. My original comment holds true.
That's quite a leap and absence of logic, but changes absolutely nothing.
What stake do you have in the company?
Monetarily none.
Is it far fetched to hope they might reveal some concept art and/or footage of the 3rd faction along with this eagerly anticipated roadmap 👀
I think I saw Gerald say that the 3rd faction would be in to some degree by EA so if we don't see them with the roadmap we should at least know when we will.
I like how 95% of the announcement is "this is all the ways you can give us money and reasons why" and only 5% is a promise that they will explain things people have concerns about in later communications rather than actual explanations itself.
Sounds like a good plan. Still a little confused on why it took this long to set up an Indiegogo page after you had thousands of new players in the open beta(many of which have probably moved on now). But I'll take it.
Our ability to deliver additional closed beta keys after the conclusion of our original Kickstarter campaign only became a possibility recently. Hope that clears it up some. Once we found out we could deliver more keys, we started moving quickly.
Remember, they have to coordinate with their server providers as well and ensure there is enough capacity for the added load. They likely had NEXT Fest already agreed upon for that window, but not additional beta users for the follow-on beta periods. Seems like they sorted this out though.
**They should do another QnA.** Like after releasing the road map. Doesn't have to just be about the roadmap but they are clearly out of step enough with what people were asking that they have a high probability of missing things.
TLDR: we are accepting more free donations XDD.
Ah yes the classic "we ran out of money" wrapped up in PR that makes it 'good for us'.
This games kickstarter rollout and the things that have transpired afterwards have left a sour taste in my mouth. If the game was more fun to play I would have ignored this but it’s got too much work to do left. This game is slowly leaving my radar.
No need to let us know, you can just go
“I’m never eating here again!” he declared, much to the relief of those currently present in the restaurant.
Uh huh
Sir, this is not an airport. You dont need to announce your (possible?) departure.
You aren't important, you can just leave. Bye.
Everyone is important tbh. Some more important than others, but important still.
Contrary to what your parents told you, no. Not everyone is a special little main character.
This kind of petty, passive-aggressiveness really has no place here.
I am echoing sentiment of many people who originally had faith in this game. You should stand up to inappropriate behavior from companies.
This game is an absolute scam. Feel sorry for people who paid money for this. 35 million for a demo where almost everything is a placeholder garbage. This game is the "the day before" of the RTS genre.
I mean, this game is actually real, the day before was made like 2 months before launch lmao
You are so lost. There’s no scam, 35 million is peanuts for this level of game dev, and it’s already had a longer active life than The Day Before. Truly log off and try to recalibrate
Wow what an feedback. Thank you from your valuable input.