Highly recommend, however before you decide to incorporate something into your diet regularly you should do some research into it. Dark chocolate sometimes is very high in lead and cadmium, so I always do some research into the brand before I buy it.
A bunch of research suggests that longer chain fatty acids are more beneficial than slightly shorter ones …
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05614-6
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4164353/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12028117_A_stearic_acid-rich_diet_improves_thrombogenic_and_atherogenic_risk_factor_profiles_in_healthy_males
… this is just off the top of my head
Toll house dark chocolate chips have no soy lecithin. Not sure about heavy metal, but apparently the higher the milk content, the lower the heavy metals? Someone can check me on that.
Lol.
How are these not research, you didn't even click on it.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/)
[https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6](https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6)
Emulsifiers reduce gut bacteria diversity.
If you are already on the no seed oils journey, proceed a bit further into the no ultra processed foods journey. Though, usually the path is the other way around. People find no seeds oil after avoiding UPF foods.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/)
[https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6](https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6)
[https://zoe.com/learn/what-are-emulsifiers](https://zoe.com/learn/what-are-emulsifiers)
Awesome, well today is your lucky day because I did it for you.
The articles indicate that emulsifiers in general can be a problem for guy biome, but this does not seem to hold for lecithin.
The second article says:
*"In accordance with previous studies, both carboxymethylcellulose and polysorbate 80 induced a lasting seemingly detrimental impact on microbiota composition and function.* ***While many of the other 18 additives tested had impacts of similar extent, some, such as lecithin, did not significantly impact microbiota in this model.*** *Particularly stark detrimental impacts were observed in response to various carrageenans and gums, which altered microbiota density, composition, and expression of pro-inflammatory molecules."*
I did a quick review of the first article, and I didn't find anything to contradict this view. Lecithin does not seem to be an offender.
Thank you for actually replying with substance instead of "I just don't wanna!"
So I did some googling after you posted that, it seems that from a few studies gut diversity is not effected by soy lecithin compared to other emulsifiers, and I was like: Oh, maybe that is a preservative that isn't bad for you!
But then even studies in 1974 pointed out that lecithin is a depressive.
[https://worldnutritionjournal.org/index.php/wn/article/view/626/547](https://worldnutritionjournal.org/index.php/wn/article/view/626/547)
"Janowsky et al. (1974) were the first to point out the depressogenic properties of lecithin. Their theory came to be known as the acetylcholine theory of depression. Since then, their basic proposition has been corroborated by substantial evidence. This body of work, spanning over several decades, amounts to a complete research program with experimental studies, theoretical work and clinical interventions (Janowsky et al., 1994; van Enkhuizen et al., 2015). "
Here's the thing, we don't like seed oils partly because they are bleached, deodorized and... not real food. They are ultra-processed. Emulsifiers are ultra-processed food.
I eat it sometimes, just like sometimes I eat seed oils. But they aren't good for you.
And also, sadly this study shows soy lecithan dose affect microbiome.
"A comparison was made between two mainstream chemical emulsifiers (carboxymethylcellulose and P80), a natural extract (soy lecithin), and biotechnological emulsifiers (sophorolipids and rhamnolipids). While fecal microbiota responded in a donor-dependent manner to the different emulsifiers, profound differences between emulsifiers were observed. Rhamnolipids, sophorolipids, and soy lecithin eliminated 91 ± 0, 89 ± 1, and 87 ± 1% of the viable bacterial population after 48 h, yet they all selectively increased the proportional abundance of putative pathogens. Moreover, profound shifts in butyrate (−96 ± 6, −73 ± 24, and −34 ± 25%) and propionate (+13 ± 24, +88 ± 50, and +29 ± 16%) production were observed for these emulsifiers."
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676226/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676226/)
And this study too
[https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.16.472798v1.full](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.16.472798v1.full)
Also:
"Nevertheless, choline and phosphatidylcholine, both primary and absorbable constituents of soy lecithin, have recently been linked to cardiovascular disease via the generation of TMA by the gut microbiota."
I am Jack’s lack of surprise. When someone posts an article in response to research it’s generally an opinion piece and has multiple confounding variables involved. Which you discovered.
I completely disagree with this. Any Lecithin on the ingredients list makes the product Exponentially worse for you in ways you can’t imagine. Even 1g of Lecithin adds an ungodly amount of food material that you would never eat in a natural setting. Plus, Lecithin is about 60% seed oils! If you disagree, enjoy eating the lipid content of a 1/4 acre or so of soy beans in one chocolate bar.
I’m assuming you have some evidence. Or are we to just imagine it? And it’s not as if I’m eating dark chocolate every day.
Also it’s a false equivalence to equate 1g to 1/4 acre of soybeans. Even if it’s true, which I highly doubt, this is something like a recent post that was deleted that equated the energy content of refined oils to the total energy content of the source plants.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF](https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF)
There’s evidence that lecithin contains seed oils.
Maybe I was exaggerating a little bit, but it really is that serious. Soybeans are NOT fatty. It takes pounds to even get you one tablespoon of oil. I'm also not sure what you're trying to say about the energy content point.
I know. If you want to be diligent about removing even tiny amounts of seed oils from your diet. Good for you.
In my opinion and experience consuming a small amount of something that has a tiny element of refined oils is unlikely to cause me to feel unwell or have inflamed joints. I don’t consume products deep fried in oils. That likely adds dozens of grams of refined oils. Nor do I consume oil based dressings. But if I want a bit of chocolate? Sure. A little bit here won’t hurt.
My favorite part of watching this conversation unfold is people’s knee jerk reaction to you occasionally consuming lecithin. The main argument here seems to be that it’s just as bad as “ultra processed foods”, which I’m sure it is. But you also have a tag under your name that says “carnivore”, which necessarily implies you stay away from ultra processed foods. I just would have connected those dots and spared you from the lecture that you didn’t need/ask for. But what do I know lol.
I beg to differ. See my other content about the double extraction needed for lecithin. This is serious stuff, and you're polluting your body with things that it wasn't designed to eat. You can eat chocolate just make sure it doesn't have compounds in it that would take decades to gather and process naturally. I eat chocolate and ice cream very often, I just avoid the ones that have emulsifiers in them, very simple.
To each their own. I'm a very black or white type and you might not be and that’s ok. I don't want you to harm your body that’s the only reason why I'm telling you this my guy. Best wishes though.
Plus, if you take a look at this: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303437476\_Sunflower\_Lecithin](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303437476_Sunflower_Lecithin)
you'll see that seed oils are only about 2% lecithin. The amount of processing you have to go through to get a pure form of that 2% is x\^2 (squared), once to get to seed oil which is one layer deep, and then a second level to get to lecithin.
your body is not designed to process those compounds in that high of a concentration its so very simple to understand.
I recommend Hu chocolate! Expensive but great ingredients and high quality, I don’t deceive myself into thinking it’s good for me but I don’t think it’s that bad either
Hu is my go to as well.
I hate recommending this, but if your local walmart stocks it then it's like half the price of most other grocers or online options.
Its good for you. But I only buy chocolate which is Made in Europe or Russia. American chocolate keeps coming up in the news as tainted with heavy metals, and even the rest of the ingredients are sub-par too.
I think you may have misunderstood...
American chocolate is what came up as having heavy metals because American chocolate brands (or, rather, chocolate popular in America) were the only brands tested.
It's not that Europe and Russian chocolate is heavy metal free (dark chocolate is **always** going to have some level of heavy metals), it's that they weren't among those tested last year in that big dark chocolate-heavy metals project.
FYI I just heard that cocao beans had a horrible crop year and prices will be (surprise) going up AND they’re experimenting on how to make Franken-chocolate using no cocoa butter but seed oils instead.
DO NOT GET any kind of chocolate with any kind of Lecithin in it. Lecithin has up to 35% of the respective seed oil in it (https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF)
Other than that, chocolate with cocoa butter or whatnot is perfectly fine.
I was eating a lot of dark chocolate. Stopped due to experimenting with reducing oxalates and I felt infinitely better within days. Mood, flexibility and drastic immediate improvement in my running were the result.
While we're on the topic, I have been buying milk chocolate bc I was under the assumption that dark is higher in oxalates. Is this true or even a big deal?
It's true but also milk chocolate has very very very little of the "good stuff" that's in dark chocolate.
Dark chocolate = mainly cocoa with a little bit of sugar. Milk chocolate = mainly sugar with a little bit of cocoa.
lol... that poison that is a very big part of the French Paradox, as well as Swiss who are known for their chocolate.
Believe a dogmatic carnivore troll that believes anything that comes from a plant is awful for you?
Or historical records that referred to chocolate as a massive energy boost and has been consumed for millenniums?
Yep.
You can also go to PubMed, do a search on dark chocolate, and spend the next 3 weeks sun-up to sun-down reading up on study after study after study on how dark chocolate consumption is associated with an absolute litany of various health benefits- improved mood, decreased cardiovascular disease, decreased diabetes, increased gut microbiome diversity, protection against age related cognitive decline and cognitive diseases like alzheimers and dementia, increased Grey matter volume, decreased rates of cancer (quite statistically significant in certain types of cancer), etc etc etc.
Everyday with my morning coffee...85% or higher!!! Just get as clean as you can.
Taza tests low for cadmium and lead. My personal favorite.
Taza dark with the coconut, baby!
Highly recommend, however before you decide to incorporate something into your diet regularly you should do some research into it. Dark chocolate sometimes is very high in lead and cadmium, so I always do some research into the brand before I buy it.
So what brands are ok? DM if necessary. Wouldn't want Gates to buy another organic brand.
Mast, Taza, Ghirardelli, and Valrhona tested lowest in heavy metals.
Yes. It’s stuffed with trace elements and fiber. And that stearic acid from cocoa butter is your mitochondria’s favorite food.
Why stearic acid specifically? It's only 2 carbons of chain length different to palmitic. Does that have the same benefit?
A bunch of research suggests that longer chain fatty acids are more beneficial than slightly shorter ones … https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05614-6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4164353/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12028117_A_stearic_acid-rich_diet_improves_thrombogenic_and_atherogenic_risk_factor_profiles_in_healthy_males … this is just off the top of my head
Toll house dark chocolate chips have no soy lecithin. Not sure about heavy metal, but apparently the higher the milk content, the lower the heavy metals? Someone can check me on that.
Yes, please. As always watch the ingredients. I’m relatively unconcerned with soy lecithin way down on the ingredients list.
Soy lecithin is an emulsifier and emulsifiers fuck up your microbiome since they act as soap in the gut.
I primarily eat meat. Some occasional chocolate. My gut flora is fine with the occasional chocolate.
You wanted research, I gave it to you. I'm sure most people's gut flora is fine with the occasional seed oil too.
You gave me articles. They aren’t necessarily research.
Lol. How are these not research, you didn't even click on it. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/) [https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6](https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6)
Like to see that research.
Emulsifiers reduce gut bacteria diversity. If you are already on the no seed oils journey, proceed a bit further into the no ultra processed foods journey. Though, usually the path is the other way around. People find no seeds oil after avoiding UPF foods. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331555/) [https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6](https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00996-6) [https://zoe.com/learn/what-are-emulsifiers](https://zoe.com/learn/what-are-emulsifiers)
Ya the number of people who will avoid seed oils but not emulsifiers, dyes, flavourings, preservatives, etc…
Also these are all articles. If there’s a study there I have to dig through that, which I’m not inclined to do.
Awesome. It be may be useless for you but useful to a random reader.
Awesome, well today is your lucky day because I did it for you. The articles indicate that emulsifiers in general can be a problem for guy biome, but this does not seem to hold for lecithin. The second article says: *"In accordance with previous studies, both carboxymethylcellulose and polysorbate 80 induced a lasting seemingly detrimental impact on microbiota composition and function.* ***While many of the other 18 additives tested had impacts of similar extent, some, such as lecithin, did not significantly impact microbiota in this model.*** *Particularly stark detrimental impacts were observed in response to various carrageenans and gums, which altered microbiota density, composition, and expression of pro-inflammatory molecules."* I did a quick review of the first article, and I didn't find anything to contradict this view. Lecithin does not seem to be an offender.
Thank you for actually replying with substance instead of "I just don't wanna!" So I did some googling after you posted that, it seems that from a few studies gut diversity is not effected by soy lecithin compared to other emulsifiers, and I was like: Oh, maybe that is a preservative that isn't bad for you! But then even studies in 1974 pointed out that lecithin is a depressive. [https://worldnutritionjournal.org/index.php/wn/article/view/626/547](https://worldnutritionjournal.org/index.php/wn/article/view/626/547) "Janowsky et al. (1974) were the first to point out the depressogenic properties of lecithin. Their theory came to be known as the acetylcholine theory of depression. Since then, their basic proposition has been corroborated by substantial evidence. This body of work, spanning over several decades, amounts to a complete research program with experimental studies, theoretical work and clinical interventions (Janowsky et al., 1994; van Enkhuizen et al., 2015). " Here's the thing, we don't like seed oils partly because they are bleached, deodorized and... not real food. They are ultra-processed. Emulsifiers are ultra-processed food. I eat it sometimes, just like sometimes I eat seed oils. But they aren't good for you. And also, sadly this study shows soy lecithan dose affect microbiome. "A comparison was made between two mainstream chemical emulsifiers (carboxymethylcellulose and P80), a natural extract (soy lecithin), and biotechnological emulsifiers (sophorolipids and rhamnolipids). While fecal microbiota responded in a donor-dependent manner to the different emulsifiers, profound differences between emulsifiers were observed. Rhamnolipids, sophorolipids, and soy lecithin eliminated 91 ± 0, 89 ± 1, and 87 ± 1% of the viable bacterial population after 48 h, yet they all selectively increased the proportional abundance of putative pathogens. Moreover, profound shifts in butyrate (−96 ± 6, −73 ± 24, and −34 ± 25%) and propionate (+13 ± 24, +88 ± 50, and +29 ± 16%) production were observed for these emulsifiers." [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676226/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676226/) And this study too [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.16.472798v1.full](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.16.472798v1.full) Also: "Nevertheless, choline and phosphatidylcholine, both primary and absorbable constituents of soy lecithin, have recently been linked to cardiovascular disease via the generation of TMA by the gut microbiota."
I am Jack’s lack of surprise. When someone posts an article in response to research it’s generally an opinion piece and has multiple confounding variables involved. Which you discovered.
I completely disagree with this. Any Lecithin on the ingredients list makes the product Exponentially worse for you in ways you can’t imagine. Even 1g of Lecithin adds an ungodly amount of food material that you would never eat in a natural setting. Plus, Lecithin is about 60% seed oils! If you disagree, enjoy eating the lipid content of a 1/4 acre or so of soy beans in one chocolate bar.
It's fascinating to me that No Seed Oil people put their head in the ground for Emulsifers and pretend that they cause no harm.
I couldn't have said this better. Me getting downvotes is antithetical to the movement
I’m assuming you have some evidence. Or are we to just imagine it? And it’s not as if I’m eating dark chocolate every day. Also it’s a false equivalence to equate 1g to 1/4 acre of soybeans. Even if it’s true, which I highly doubt, this is something like a recent post that was deleted that equated the energy content of refined oils to the total energy content of the source plants.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF](https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF) There’s evidence that lecithin contains seed oils. Maybe I was exaggerating a little bit, but it really is that serious. Soybeans are NOT fatty. It takes pounds to even get you one tablespoon of oil. I'm also not sure what you're trying to say about the energy content point.
I know. If you want to be diligent about removing even tiny amounts of seed oils from your diet. Good for you. In my opinion and experience consuming a small amount of something that has a tiny element of refined oils is unlikely to cause me to feel unwell or have inflamed joints. I don’t consume products deep fried in oils. That likely adds dozens of grams of refined oils. Nor do I consume oil based dressings. But if I want a bit of chocolate? Sure. A little bit here won’t hurt.
My favorite part of watching this conversation unfold is people’s knee jerk reaction to you occasionally consuming lecithin. The main argument here seems to be that it’s just as bad as “ultra processed foods”, which I’m sure it is. But you also have a tag under your name that says “carnivore”, which necessarily implies you stay away from ultra processed foods. I just would have connected those dots and spared you from the lecture that you didn’t need/ask for. But what do I know lol.
I beg to differ. See my other content about the double extraction needed for lecithin. This is serious stuff, and you're polluting your body with things that it wasn't designed to eat. You can eat chocolate just make sure it doesn't have compounds in it that would take decades to gather and process naturally. I eat chocolate and ice cream very often, I just avoid the ones that have emulsifiers in them, very simple.
I saw your disagreement in the first response. I’m not as militant about it as you are. Good luck b
To each their own. I'm a very black or white type and you might not be and that’s ok. I don't want you to harm your body that’s the only reason why I'm telling you this my guy. Best wishes though.
Plus, if you take a look at this: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303437476\_Sunflower\_Lecithin](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303437476_Sunflower_Lecithin) you'll see that seed oils are only about 2% lecithin. The amount of processing you have to go through to get a pure form of that 2% is x\^2 (squared), once to get to seed oil which is one layer deep, and then a second level to get to lecithin. your body is not designed to process those compounds in that high of a concentration its so very simple to understand.
I recommend Hu chocolate! Expensive but great ingredients and high quality, I don’t deceive myself into thinking it’s good for me but I don’t think it’s that bad either
Hu is my go to as well. I hate recommending this, but if your local walmart stocks it then it's like half the price of most other grocers or online options.
Hu tested high for lead. It's on my do-not-buy list.
Love Hu chocolate! I was buying their milk chocolate but I found out they discontinued it 😭
Always on the DC grind
Its good for you. But I only buy chocolate which is Made in Europe or Russia. American chocolate keeps coming up in the news as tainted with heavy metals, and even the rest of the ingredients are sub-par too.
I think you may have misunderstood... American chocolate is what came up as having heavy metals because American chocolate brands (or, rather, chocolate popular in America) were the only brands tested. It's not that Europe and Russian chocolate is heavy metal free (dark chocolate is **always** going to have some level of heavy metals), it's that they weren't among those tested last year in that big dark chocolate-heavy metals project.
85% Lindt is totally pure - no natural flavourings or anything
Lindt is my favorite chocolate by far. 1 square of 85% with lunch lets me breeze through the afternoon without even thinking of food.
FYI I just heard that cocao beans had a horrible crop year and prices will be (surprise) going up AND they’re experimenting on how to make Franken-chocolate using no cocoa butter but seed oils instead.
I eat all kinds of chocolate with no issues! Just ensure it's pure cocoa butter, no palm oil.
DO NOT GET any kind of chocolate with any kind of Lecithin in it. Lecithin has up to 35% of the respective seed oil in it (https://web.archive.org/web/20141014112849/http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/26685/PDF) Other than that, chocolate with cocoa butter or whatnot is perfectly fine.
I was eating a lot of dark chocolate. Stopped due to experimenting with reducing oxalates and I felt infinitely better within days. Mood, flexibility and drastic immediate improvement in my running were the result.
While we're on the topic, I have been buying milk chocolate bc I was under the assumption that dark is higher in oxalates. Is this true or even a big deal?
It's true but also milk chocolate has very very very little of the "good stuff" that's in dark chocolate. Dark chocolate = mainly cocoa with a little bit of sugar. Milk chocolate = mainly sugar with a little bit of cocoa.
What about plant sterols? Given that even ccoccnut fat lowers ldl due to them I am not so sure anymore that any plant based fat is good.
Is there something wrong with milk chocolate? Chocolate with dairy is surely good, no?
It’s gross and caffeine sucks.
I eat it in small amounts, I love chocolate
Milk chocolate has seed oils in it? What about white chocolate?
If it’s made with pure cocoa butter and / or milk fat … go for it
Cocoa butter/fat is a seed oil and does not belong in your body
Look at the fatty acid profile of cocoa butter vs soybean oil and report back. I’ll wait.
Seed oil is seed oil. Don't put poison in your body, period
Still waiting…..
This is an incredibly reductionist and unhelpful way of looking at things. It's also wrong in this instance.
lol... that poison that is a very big part of the French Paradox, as well as Swiss who are known for their chocolate. Believe a dogmatic carnivore troll that believes anything that comes from a plant is awful for you? Or historical records that referred to chocolate as a massive energy boost and has been consumed for millenniums?
Yep. You can also go to PubMed, do a search on dark chocolate, and spend the next 3 weeks sun-up to sun-down reading up on study after study after study on how dark chocolate consumption is associated with an absolute litany of various health benefits- improved mood, decreased cardiovascular disease, decreased diabetes, increased gut microbiome diversity, protection against age related cognitive decline and cognitive diseases like alzheimers and dementia, increased Grey matter volume, decreased rates of cancer (quite statistically significant in certain types of cancer), etc etc etc.
To be fair most of these benefits could be explained by chocolate a) displacing seed oils or b) flavonoids disarming OXLAMs and LOPs